Dick Cheney's Crystal Ball Says That NSA Surveillance Could Have Stopped 9/11

from the but-not-the-boston-bombing dept

We already commented on FBI director Robert Mueller arguing that the NSA's mass surveillance techniques would have prevented 9/11, and now it appears that Dick Cheney is agreeing with this fictional scenario in which his crystal ball says what might have happened:
"As everybody who's been associated with the program's said, if we had had this before 9/11, when there were two terrorists in San Diego — two hijackers — had been able to use that program, that capability, against that target, we might well have been able to prevent 9/11," Cheney said on "Fox News Sunday."
That's speculation based on nothing, frankly. As has been widely covered, there were a number of reasons why the government failed to stop 9/11, just as there were plenty of reasons it failed to stop the Boston bombings back in April. The idea that this program would have stopped one (while it clearly missed the other) isn't particularly convincing.

Of course, none of that gets to the bigger question of whether or not it's worth it. In theory, we could stop all sorts of crimes by putting military personnel and equipment in the streets, with the power to invade any home and do a full search. But we don't allow that. Because that's a violation of our privacy. And, yes, the loss of life from a terrorist attack is tragic and horrifying -- but many more people are killed in car accidents, and we don't freak out about that and take away everyone's cars. Giving up our basic principles of freedom on the off chance it might possibly stop a terrorist attack (while still missing other terrorist attacks) doesn't really seem like living up to the basic ideals of this country.


Reader Comments (rss)

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  1.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:36am

    This is nothing more than political posturing designed to get people behind mass surveillance by exploiting a massive tragedy. It is completely immoral, in my opinion.

    There is no way that we can say either way whether or not 9/11 could have been stopped had this surveillance been in place. Although, I suspect that it would not have been stopped.

     

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    crade (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:39am

    You're assuming that he means the gov't may have used the info to stop 9/11.. Perhaps he means the terrorists wouldn't have bothered trying if everyone was already terrorized to that point.

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:42am

    Is this the same crystal ball?

    Is this the same crystal ball he used to find the WMD's before the Iraq invasion?

     

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  4.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:43am

    Spooky Cheney, if anyone resembles Emperor Palpatine that guy is it.

     

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  5. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:46am

    You really are a broken record with this NSA stuff, Mikey. When are you going to get down from your soapbox and actually discuss any of it on the merits? Oh yeah, never.

    Time to bring out the cows. Mikey's got milk fever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F85cuRuQjLE

    Get those clicks, Mikey! Clicks! Clicks! Clicks! Yeah, that's what an ivy league education is for. It's for impressing silverscarat and his brethren!! Good for you!

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:46am

    Really? It could stop 9/11, but it could not stop the Boston bombings?

    And that NSA surveillance machine sure was useful in finding the perpetrators after the incident.

    Oh wait, no it wasn't. They were identified via crowd-sourcing and were busted only after shutting down the entire city.

     

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  7.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:48am

    Re:

    "You really are a broken record"

    Pot, meet kettle

     

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:48am

    That's speculation based on nothing, frankly.

    That's your specialty, Mikey!!! Still waiting for you explain exactly how the telephone metadata collection violates the Fourth Amendment. I mean, you weren't just speculating based on nothing, right? LOL! Of course you were. And, of course, you will never ever admit it. Why? Because you are not an honest person.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:48am

    "but many more people are killed in car accidents, and we don't freak out about that and take away everyone's cars."

    Well don't forget you're 8 times more likely to die from a police officer than from a terrorist. Have we started spying on police officers too? If we haven't, maybe we start?


    http://www.theweeklyconstitutional.com/news/headlines/773-cop-more-likely-to-kill-you-th an-terrorists

     

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  10.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:48am

    Re:

    Merits?

    Is he referring to his...?

    Nah...he can't be that crazy...right?

     

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  11.  
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    out_of_the_blue, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:49am

    It's NOT "speculation based on nothing," it's LIES.

    Am I the only here with a memory that goes back more than two weeks? -- Daily briefing in August "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US"; the CIA explicitly cleared those two "hijackers" to ICE; the FBI got reports of people wanting to learn how to fly but not land 767s, and Moussaui, the "20th hijacker", somehow popped into FBI view (okay, MY memory is getting fuzzy on details), I think they tried to get a warrant to look on his computer but were denied from above.

    There were PLENTY of clues intercepted, it's just Cheney LYING that the information wasn't available, can only claim didn't put it all together.

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:50am

    Re:

    "Still waiting for you explain exactly how the telephone metadata collection violates the Fourth Amendment."

    You either don't read much or don't read well.

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:51am

    Dick Cheney is filth

    He really is, you know. He's one of the most dishonest, nasty, and purely evil people on this planet. Anyone who believes anything he says is a moron.

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:51am

    Re:

    So which law firm are you auditioning for with this inanity? Is it an imaginary one?

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:54am

    Re:

    "Still waiting for you explain exactly how the telephone metadata collection violates the Fourth Amendment."

    Would the government have access to it if it weren't for the spying program? It's a rhetorical question, Trolley...

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:58am

    Someone needs to go upside Mr. Cheney's head with a book of Benjamin Franklin quotes.

     

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  17.  
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    Nick (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:59am

    Re:

    And yet they were only caught because they robbed a store, which got reported, stole a car, in which the owner escaped their custody, and the survivor hid out in a boat, in which a vigilant CIVILIAN alerted the police to traces of blood.

    So not only did a city-wide police crack down not catch these guys, but the NSA surveillance net didn't stop this (which was in place for 6 years) nor did it help in finding them before they were caught on their own.

    But I feel safer already! Keep taking away my freedoms, government!

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:59am

    NSA surveillance could have also stopped Pearl Harbor or Nazi Germany or Vulcan or Krypton but we'll never know now will we?

     

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  19.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:01pm

    Re:

    It might have stopped the American revolution too.

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:02pm

    Re:

    So...first you post your "my way or the milky way" rant, and now you want to have a honest conversation?

    Fuck off lunatic.

     

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  21.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:05pm

    Re: It's NOT "speculation based on nothing," it's LIES.

    As much as I hate to admit it, I hit the "Insightful" button on your post. I think you're losing your touch OOTB.

     

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  22.  
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    jupiterkansas (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:13pm

    Re:

    It also assumes the terrorist would have operated in the exact same manner that they did. If the surveillance apparatus were different, the terrorists would have operated differently too - so all these "what if" situations are bogus.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:13pm

    Re:

    from you are not going to be killed by terrorism
    –You are 12 times more likely to die from accidental suffocation in bed than from a terrorist attack

    Better install cameras and alarms in all bedrooms so that action can be taken when people are suffocating. This would save more lives that the surveillance used to stop terrorism. Its for your safety after all.

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:16pm

    Re:

    The one think Mike has independent of his faults is this horsie, he has the public trust.

    It is eating at you isn't it?
    The thought that people would pick pirates instead of your side is destroying your soul.

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:16pm

    Re: Re:

    Should have previewed before posting
    from you are not going to be killed by terrorism

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:18pm

    Re:

    Here' I'll explain how the metadata collection violates the 4th Amendment, pretty simple, even a moron like you can understand. here it is:

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "

    My phone calls, internet searches, surfing habits, metadata, etc. are my "effects" and as such, in order for the government to have access to them they need a warrant. Pretty simple.

     

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  27.  
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    Zakida Paul (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:22pm

    Re: Re:

    Absolutely. Terrorists able to pull off an attack like 9/11 are savvy enough to avoid surveillance.

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:24pm

    Re: Dick Cheney is filth

    Thanks. Now I have that scene from Harold and Kumar go to Guantanimo Bay stuck in my head. You know the one where they land in Bush's house and he's running from Cheney cause "that guy scares me".

     

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  29.  
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    McCrea (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:25pm

    Prevention

    Intensive government surveillance would have prevented Harry Whittington getting shot on a hunting trip, too.

     

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  30.  
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    Ninja (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:37pm

    Re: Is this the same crystal ball?

    Well, Techdirt's Cristal Ball™ seems to work better, I always know what will be the next articles. In fact I can retroactively comment on them so it must be some sort of time-traveling machine. OOTB seems frequently puzzled by it.

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:38pm

    Re: Re:

    YEAH BUT THIS LAW THAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE SEVENTIES MEANS THEY CAN SPY ON EVERYONE BECAUSE FREEDOM!!!

     

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  32.  
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    ChrisB (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:41pm

    Hindsight doesn't matter

    It doesn't matter if surveillance would have prevented 9/11. Locking up all the mentally ill may have prevented Sandy Hook, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.

    Policy can only be determined by looking at the benefits of a policy (reduced terrorist attacks) and the risks/downsides (increased surveillance). Hindsight is useful _only_ for quantifying the benefits and risks.

     

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  33.  
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    Ninja (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:44pm

    Re: Re:

    I think he haven't read the Amendment at all. Allow me to help him:

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    So we have two problems here. They do not have the right to know exactly who you talk with and when you talk to that person be it some hooker or your grandma (this would require in the distant past that the police followed and spied you). And it's not particularly describing because the data was collected in bulks.

    Satisfied? Go away now, please.

     

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  34.  
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    Ninja (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:44pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    hasn't*

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:47pm

    Re: Re:

    Well, kinda. Obviously the phone company has access to them.

    I would argue, however, that just because 3 people know something doesn't mean that the government also has a right to know that thing without a warrant. Say I call a friend. I know I made that call, the friend I called knows I made that call, and the phone company knows I made that call. But if you, as a private citizen and customer, ask for my phone records, the phone company is going to deny you that information even if you offer to pay them more than my business with them is worth. Why? Because that information is PRIVATE. Perhaps it is not private to the degree of a medical record, but I think it works on a similar principle. Just because someone else holds a record should not mean that the government has a right to it. And even if somehow I have no interest whatsoever in that record, the PHONE COMPANY has an interest in it. If nothing else, these are the phone company's papers and effects, and probable cause is STILL needed to get them.

    And on top of the Fourth Amendment arguments, there can also be a case made that we SHOULD not do this even if it's constitutionally permissible. According to the Supreme Court, it's legal for cities to take houses via eminent domain and sell the land for commercial development. That does not mean that cities SHOULD do this, and I would vote out any local official who proposed it. And congress CAN, according to the Supreme Court, retroactively extend copyright for 20 years, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Similarly, even if this is legal under the Fourth Amendment, that does not automatically mean that we should be doing it.

    But when it comes to whether we should do this, that brings up First Amendment issues. The government is ordering that records be provided and also puts on a gag order, preventing discussion of whether this is something that we should be doing.

    And why is there this gag order? So people don't know they are doing this. And why does that matter? Because people assume that this information will be private. The secrecy is only valuable if people assume that the government is NOT tracking them.

    Which brings us full circle. People DO expect that these records are private. And since they have some expectation of privacy in these records, the Fourth Amendment SHOULD apply.

     

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  36.  
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    Ninja (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:49pm

    Re: It's NOT "speculation based on nothing," it's LIES.

    That. Conspiracy theories say that they knew it was coming and let it happen in order to put the current surveillance system in place. Furthermore there seem to be visual evidence that the Boston bombings were orchestrated by the Govt as well.

    I'm not as quick as to swallow everything that's thrown at me but at least the Boston event has some pretty damning visual evidence that SOMETHING smells fishy.

    The sad part is that the cynic in me refuses to dismiss those theories entirely.

     

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  37.  
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    Ninja (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:50pm

    Re: Re:

    Have my insightful vote and my hats off.

     

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  38.  
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    jameshogg (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:53pm

    "Gee... I hope it's not those guys from the flight schools in the Midwest" - George Tenet after seeing the planes hit the towers.

    There was a crystal ball, you stupid fuck.

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 12:54pm

    Hahaha. Do you guys really still believe the goverment didn't know 9/11 was going to happen and allowed it to happen?

     

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  40.  
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    jameshogg (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 1:01pm

    Re:

    It is tempting to say "conspiracy" even from the quotation I have given above, but in all honesty the best explanation is incompetence.

     

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  41.  
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    RD, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 1:09pm

    Re:

    Posting in EVERY article "milk it! milk it! coward! pirate! bawk!" is considered having a *conversation* now? Lets be clear: you arent interested in having any kind of meaningful discussion. At all. You prove it with every post. You dont get to then turn around and try to take Mike and the site to task for something you yourself are unwilling to do.

     

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  42.  
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    DOlz (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 1:12pm

    Give Dick credit he always has great 20/20 hindsight. It comes from a lifetime of talking out of his ass.

     

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  43.  
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    Jay (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 1:18pm

    Snowden's reply

    " Further, it's important to bear in mind I'm being called a traitor by men like former Vice President Dick Cheney. This is a man who gave us the warrantless wiretapping scheme as a kind of atrocity warm-up on the way to deceitfully engineering a conflict that has killed over 4,400 and maimed nearly 32,000 Americans, as well as leaving over 100,000 Iraqis dead. Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American, and the more panicked talk we hear from people like him, Feinstein, and King, the better off we all are. If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school."

     

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  44.  
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    TheLastCzarnian (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 1:29pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    The top-secret surveillance theater was obviously making someone happy. The questions are who and how.

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 1:32pm

    Re:

    We had surveillance in place that was ignored.

    That tells you all you need to know.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 1:38pm

    Re: Re:

    With a good dose of inter agency competition and lack of cooperation thrown in.

     

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  47.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 1:47pm

    "Dick" Cheney...more than just a clever name.

     

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  48.  
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    michael, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 2:03pm

    Stong locks on the cockpit doors could also have stopped 9/11.

    Passengers who hadn't been told all their lives to give criminals whatever they want could also have stopped 9/11.

    Following up on all the intelligence about a terror attack pre-9/11 could also have stopped 9/11.

     

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  49.  
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    Engral, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 2:04pm

    Am I missing something??

    I'm really not even sure why our officials are being given a chance to justify here.....I might be missing something...but, even your everyday drug dealer on the street, and I'm certain those involved in much more sophisticated operations, are using throw away phones, and chips, which...and this is where I may be missing something...makes any conversation connected with those phones, pretty much disconnected from individuals....and I'm pretty sure our 'Terrorist' element would be smart enough to use this same tactic.....so, if that's the case, what iota of information that is helpful to our safety could they get?

     

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  50.  
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    DCX2, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 2:07pm

    Re: It's NOT "speculation based on nothing," it's LIES.

    August 6, 2001 was the date of the memo. 36 days before 9/11. Here's photographic evidence.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/CIA_Memo.JPG

     

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  51.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 2:17pm

    Coulda, woulda, shouda, doesn't cut it. The problem is when you gather that much information, you have the needle in the haystack problem of too much information.

    I can not help but notice that it did not prevent the Boston Marathon bombing. If it can't stop a really bombing especially when Russia notifies you ahead of time about the individuals being a problem, then there is no way in hell this floats as a valid reason.

    Of course this is coming from Cheney, who claims Snowden is needed to be prosecuted for spilling state secrets, the same Cheney who put the gears in motion to help put all the spying apparatus in place and the same Cheney wanted by The Hague for war crimes. Cheney cancelled his book signing in Canada over fears of being arrested in Canada over these same war crimes. Now that's a real moral character you can depend on... not.

    The whole thing here is the whistle blower program doesn't work. The recommended going up the chain of command results in it getting buried and the individual threatened. Going to some one like the IG doesn't help as again the one wanting to reveal the problems is treated as the problem. The final only choice each whistle blower is left with is going to the MSM. Of course as with Snowden, the first thing they do is contact the government over it to see what's allowed to be in print.

     

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  52.  
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    jupiterkansas (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 2:28pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    For starters, security contractors getting fat government grants.

     

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    Get off my cyber-lawn! (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 2:33pm

    Condoms would have prevent 9/11 ! ! !

    Well if the parents of those same bombers on 9/11 had been allowed to wear condoms then the act may not have occurred either.

    Makes as much sense as what the government is trying to say!

     

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  54.  
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    Anonymous, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 2:37pm

    So NSA surveillance could have stopped the government's biggest false-flag operation? They could have foiled yet another one of their own terror plots.

     

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  55.  
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    damien guarniere eaton, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 2:55pm

    911 a conspiracy theory

    http://www.corbettreport.com/911-a-conspiracy-theory/
    TRANSCRIPT: On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters directed by a man on dialysis in a
    cave fortress halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed the most sophisticated penetration of
    the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4
    commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour without being molested by a single
    fighter interceptor.
    These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine , and live with pink-haired
    strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, while in Washington a pilot who couldn’t
    handle a single engine Cessna was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn to come
    exactly level with the ground, hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the
    mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon’s
    coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001.
    Luckily, the news anchors knew who did it within minutes, the pundits knew within hours , the Administration knew within
    the day , and the evidence literally fell into the FBI’s lap. But for some reason a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists
    demanded an investigation into the greatest attack on American soil in history.
    The investigation was delayed , underfunded , set up to fail , a conflict of interest and a cover up from start to finish. It was
    based on testimony extracted through torture , the records of which were destroyed. It failed to mention the existence of
    WTC7 , Able Danger , Ptech , Sibel Edmonds, OBL and the CIA, and the drills of hijacked aircraft being flown into buildings
    that were being simulated at the precise same time that those events were actually happening. It was lied to by the
    Pentagon , the CIA, the Bush Administration and as for Bush and Cheney…well, no one knows what they told it because
    they testified in secret , off the record , not under oath and behind closed doors . It didn’t bother to look at who funded the
    attacks because that question is of “ little practical significance“. Still, the 9/11 Commission did brilliantly, answering all
    of the questions the public had (except most of the victims’ family members’ questions ) and pinned blame on all the
    people responsible (although no one so much as lost their job), determining the attacks were “a failure of imagination”
    because “I don’t think anyone could envision flying airplanes into buildings ” except the Pentagon and FEMA and NORAD
    and the NRO.
    The DIA destroyed 2.5 TB of data on Able Danger, but that’s OK because it probably wasn’t important.
    The SEC destroyed their records on the investigation into the insider trading before the attacks, but that’s OK because
    destroying the records of the largest investigation in SEC history is just part of routine record keeping.
    NIST has classified the data that they used for their model of WTC7′s collapse, but that’s OK because knowing how they
    made their model of that collapse would “ jeopardize public safety“.
    The FBI has argued that all material related to their investigation of 9/11 should be kept secret from the public, but that’s
    OK because the FBI probably has nothing to hide .
    This man never existed, nor is anything he had to say worthy of your attention, and if you say otherwise you are a
    paranoid conspiracy theorist and deserve to be shunned by all of humanity. Likewise him , him, him, and her . (and her
    and her and him).
    Osama Bin Laden lived in a cave fortress in the hills of Afghanistan, but somehow got away. Then he was hiding out in
    Tora Bora but somehow got away. Then he lived in Abottabad for years, taunting the most comprehensive intelligence
    dragnet employing the most sophisticated technology in the history of the world for 10 years, releasing video after video
    with complete impunity (and getting younger and younger as he did so), before finally being found in a daring SEAL team
    raid which wasn’t recorded on video , in which he didn’t resist or use his wife as a human shield , and in which these
    crack special forces operatives panicked and killed this unarmed man, supposedly the best source of intelligence about
    those dastardly terrorists on the planet. Then they dumped his body in the ocean before telling anyone about it. Then a
    couple dozen of that team’s members died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.
    This is the story of 9/11, brought to you by the media which told you the hard truths about JFK and incubator babies and
    mobile production facilities and the rescue of Jessica Lynch .
    If you have any questions about this story…you are a batshit, paranoid, tinfoil, dog-abusing baby-hater and will be reviled
    by everyone. If you love your country and/or freedom, happiness, rainbows, rock and roll, puppy dogs, apple pie and your
    grandma, you will never ever express doubts about any part of this story to anyone. Ever.
    This has been a public service announcement by: the Friends of the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA , SEC, MSM, White House , NIST,
    and the 9/11 Commission . Because Ignorance is Strength.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    icon
    streetlight (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 3:14pm

    I'm guessing terrorists will find a way around NSA

    I'm not sure what technique or technology terrorists will use but they'll find some way of communication that can make them invisible to the NSA, FBI,CIA, TSA and any other three letter government spy agency. Super encrypted emails, anonymous prepaid cell phones, face to face meetings in a cave, ... and lots of other methods I can't imagine, but they will likely find a way to secretly plot their nefarious schemes.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 8:54pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    YES! FREEDOM! For motherfucking eagles. ... Fuck free eagles.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 9:00pm

    Re: It's NOT "speculation based on nothing," it's LIES.

    Whoever you got making your potions tell them that this was a good one - ink that recipe.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 9:02pm

    Re: Dick Cheney is filth

    How many citizens would it take to make a citizens's arrest? Likewise for a standing president?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 9:05pm

    Re: Re: Dick Cheney is filth

    and past presidents, can't forget those. Arresting past vice-presidents should be cake comparatively.. pfft.

    We can arrest them and call them schnookums. "You are my schnookums and you belong in this box with these other people and they can be your friends and they are my schnookums too."

    Good times.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 9:07pm

    Re: Re:

    No way, dude! We would've kicked their asses!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 9:14pm

    Re:

    Boston Marathon. Hmm... And they locked down an entire city. Damn good test design and damn good results. Minimal loss of life, man requirements evaluated to suppress blocks and blocks and blocks of people and elimination of a Russian hazard. Brilliant.

    Conspiracy theories are brilliant.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 9:21pm

    Re: Re:

    Let me elaborate - if the NSA pulls what we all know they pull and these guys were on ANY, ANY radar, and they missed that then THE PROGRAM IS A FAILURE - FULL punctuation period STOP punctuation period - You're breaking the laws that founded this land.

    It's one or the other folks. We drive over this cliff or jump. I'd say that you can always find a new ride, it just might be a little rougher because I'm pretty sure that I can't fly.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 9:37pm

    Re:

    Be careful MOTH. That's a mighty big FLAME. Perhaps the plan was not to foil the plan after all. Experience was showing that that was not working out as hoped.

    After all, if you don't really know then you don't really know do you?

    "Trust Us. You're Safer."

    Uhh... no thanks - I think I'd rather do drugs and fight 'til the death, but thanks.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 9:47pm

    Re: I'm guessing terrorists will find a way around NSA

    I'd say it's not really going to matter because the next terrorists that matter won't even matter. Like blind faith religious fucks with a bomb matter. Next thing you know they'll tell us we matter and they'll try and build a wall.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 17th, 2013 @ 9:54pm

    Re: 911 a conspiracy theory

    I am not a conspiracy theorist. I approve this message.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:09pm

    Re:

    Come on, it's not like anyone actually would believe a word out of Dick Cheney's mouth.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 17th, 2013 @ 11:10pm

    Re:

    Ooh, the irony!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    icon
    terry_allen (profile), Jun 18th, 2013 @ 4:22am

    Re: 911 a conspiracy theory

    So let's see if I have this right: we already know that the people who were paid to collect all this NSA data have been absolutely effusive in extolling the wisdom, the farsightedness, of the people that hired them to collect it (well, except for that troublemaker Snowden...obviously not a team player). Through the mechanism of the periodic reports they sent to their managers, those managers know that 'dozens' of 'potential terrorist plots' were foiled.

    And they say government can't do things the way the private sector can!

    I'm guessing that a conversation that was flagged for follow-up -- but didn't lead to anything -- would constitute a 'potential terrorist plot'? After all, if it led to something more significant, it wouldn't have been 'potential', now would it?

    So, now that I understand that, I guess I can ask how this massive surveillance program would have prevented Dick Cheney from ordering the interceptors to stand down on 9/11?

    And now that that question's been answered ("It's because we didn't have a massive domestic surveillance program in place, you dummy! Pay attention!"), I guess I can hit the snooze button and go back to sleep?

    Okay. Thanks.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    Pragmatic, Jun 18th, 2013 @ 5:55am

    Re: Re: It's NOT "speculation based on nothing," it's LIES.

    This is Rational Blue, the sane one who (presumably) uses the moniker to annoy the other Blues.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    Pragmatic, Jun 18th, 2013 @ 5:59am

    Re: Re: It's NOT "speculation based on nothing," it's LIES.

    It seems likely that it wasn't so much a conspiracy as incompetence, which the military-surveillance-industrial complex jumped on to promote their agenda.

    When they actually DO fake terrorism, nothing happens, it's just some chump being caught in a sting operation.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 18th, 2013 @ 9:37am

    A not so ridiculous US Foreign Policy toward the Middle East region could have prevented 9/11

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    icon
    terry_allen (profile), Jun 18th, 2013 @ 12:01pm

    Re:

    You mean threatening to carpet bomb Afghanistan wasn't a good way to start the pipeline negotiations? Heck, in Texas that's just how we say, "Howdy!"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Jun 18th, 2013 @ 12:24pm

    Re: It's NOT "speculation based on nothing," it's LIES.

    Dick Cheney lied? Unpossible.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    icon
    Zeissmann (profile), Jun 18th, 2013 @ 5:06pm

    That would be a tragedy!

    Well, maybe it could have prevented 9/11 but that would really be a tragedy, because then the US government wouldn't have a justification for taking away basic freedoms and wouldn't be able to implement the mass surveillance in the first place. Where would the US be then, huh?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    icon
    ioconnor (profile), Jun 18th, 2013 @ 5:32pm

    Cheney should know what would have stopped him.

    Does he say whether it would have stopped him from outing Valerie Plame too?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    icon
    terry_allen (profile), Jun 19th, 2013 @ 4:09am

    Re:

    You know, I've always thought that it just didn't make sense that Valerie Plame's husband was the intended target of her outing. I mean, this is Dick Cheney! If he wanted, he could simply arrange to have the guy found in bed, naked, drunk, with an entire Girl Scout troop as his only visible companions. And the only way he can get back at this guy is to intentionally blow his wife's cover? No, sorry, can't buy it.

    What I can buy, though, is the idea that Valerie Plame herself -- who was, after all, working independently to answer that vital question of where the WMDs were in Iraq, or if they existed at all -- might have been the real problem for Cheney, and the real target. A CIA agent loses a lot of her effectiveness once everybody in the world knows she's a CIA agent. All Cheney had to do was figure out a quasi-legal way to get the information to the media.

    And there you are, another whistleblower dealt with.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    identicon
    LOL, Jun 23rd, 2013 @ 1:47am

    First: 9/11 was an inside job.

    Second: Did the terrorists use the Internet?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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