Student Wins Intel Science Fair; Threatened With Patent Infringement Claims For Patent Not Yet Granted

from the because-that's-how-we-do-things-these-days dept

So it goes in America. No one's immune from the threat of patent litigation, not even 18-year high school students in possession of an award-winning science project in one of the most prestigious science fairs around. (Tip of the hat to TD reader Jeff for sending this over.)

Eesha Khare, an 18-year-old senior at Lynbrook High School in San Jose, Calif., won both the first prize at the Intel Science Fair and the Project of the Year award for the senior division of the California State Science Fair with her research on supercapacitors.

However, her work has also attracted the attention of the company that holds a patent involving similar technology, and its CEO says he may be forced to bring legal action against her if she tries to commercialize it.

[K]hare’s work violates a 2005 patent filed by green energy company Solaroad Technologies, according to company CEO Kahrl Retti. He says he has been working on similar technology since the 1980s, and that while Khare’s work is impressive, it is in violation of the patents involving nanocapacitor technology that Solaroad Technologies has already commercialized.
Kahrl Retti, CEO of Solaroad Technologies, LLC, showed up in the comment thread (assisted by Nick Cameron, also of Solaroad) at Tech World to make some noise about the wrong person being credited with this invention.

Retti's comment:
Once again the media has credited the wrong person with inventing a technology. The inventor of this tech filed Patent applications worldwide 7 years ago on this very tech.
Nick's comment:
Although Eesha's work is commendable, the media has indeed credited the wrong person with this invention. Solaroad Technologies, a solar innovation company located in Baltimore, MD was the original inventor of the nano battery and holds patent applications worldwide on it. Their CEO (Kahrl Retti) has been in the nanostructure field for years. Directed towards the writer, please check your facts.
Cameron went even further on Solaroad's Facebook page: [UPDATE: This post has vanished from Solaroad's Facebook page, so here's a screenshot. Link will now take you to the cached version.]

Once again, the media has given the credit to the wrong person for this invention. This technology was developed by Solaroad Technologies and invented by Kahrl Retti in the 1980's. Patents have been filed worldwide on this tech since 2005. Retti developed and produced nanorod capacitors and has documentation regarding the tech dating to 1988. Scientists from General Electric, General Motors, and Kiment.

It is a great disservice to credit this 18 year old with a technology that was invented and developed before she was even born. The scientific community tends to ignore the patent office and only publishes papers fro academic sources, the tech media also ignores the patent office. IT IS A GOOD WAY TO GET SUED
Pay attention to what's being stated here (which is different than what's being stated in Network World's story). Both Retti and Cameron state only that "patent applications" (or "patents" in the FB post) have been "filed." At this point, neither Retti nor his company actually hold a patent on this technology, at least not in the US. The only patent potentially related to Khare's project that can be traced back to Retti or Solaroad is this one -- an application filed in 2006 (and with a priority date of 2005). [This application seems more relevant, but Retti keeps throwing around the 2005 date.] A search of the USPTO database returns only the following list of granted patents for Retti (most of which deal with taping gypsumboard) and nothing at all for Solaroad.

Holding an application is nowhere near as effective as holding an actual patent. While some royalties may be collected from infringement that occurred after the application was published, certain stipulations must be met before the original applicant can make a claim for damages. One of these requirements is that the infringer must have "actual notice" of the published patent. It's hard to imagine that most (if any) science fair projects begin with a patent search, so the noise Solaroad's making only serves one purpose: to inform the involved parties that a.) it exists, b.) it's willing to sue and c.) it's filed an application(s) that might tenuously be related to Khare's work. If she chooses to commercialize her supercapacitor work, Retti can claim she had "actual notice."

That, and Retti just seems bitter that a high school student is garnering all of this attention.
“I would never consciously hurt or cast aspersions on anybody. I just simply wanted to put somebody on notice that we already developed this technology,” Retti said in a phone interview with Network World. “I don’t want to hurt this girl’s feelings or anybody else’s. I’m just frustrated after trying to get Intel or Google to talk to us for decades, and they won’t even talk to me, but they’re jumping on this bandwagon.”

“I don’t want to pee on anyone’s parade and I don’t want to stop any technology that could be for the greater good of the world, but I’m here to say that I did it,” Retti says.
If Intel and Google are interested, it's because Khare's project could help push advances in portable device construction.
Khare’s work with supercapacitors could make a difference in the design and performance of smartphone batteries, which, in turn, could help make flexible smartphones a reality... In a test, Khare’s supercapacitor boasted a capacitance of 238.5 Farads per gram, a substantial improvement from the 80 Farads per gram achieved with alternative designs. Practically, supercapacitors could help make for smaller internal components in smartphones.
Solaroad, as may be gathered by its name, has positioned itself as an alternative energy company, even going so far as attempting to design its own electric vehicle. If Retti's been unable to match up his (still pending) patent with the priorities of Google and Intel (with an 8-year head start, no less), that's hardly Khare's fault. Shutting down someone else's innovation simply to protect your own rut is exactly the sort of behavior that has people calling for a complete overhaul of the patent system.

Perhaps Retti should spend less time fretting about inventive 18-year-olds and start refining its existing product line. A visit to Solaroad's site gives you the feeling the products it's touting have endless upside, but digging around a little more leads to the impression that its main products exist only as PDFs and Powerpoint presentations.

Here's Solaroad's $500,000 crowdfunding attempt to get its GridKicker solar generation/storage device off the ground. It seems to have stalled after receiving only $30 in contributions in four months. (One of the donors is quite possibly Kahrl Retti's son, Kahrl Retti Jr. [aka Johnny Columbine]). Another comment on its Facebook page (dated October of 2012) seems to indicate Solaroad isn't manufacturing any of its products at this point.
We are currently looking for an investment to start manufacturing. Any questions can be asked through telephone or email. Thanks!
While throwing around nearly baseless legal threats, Solaroad might want to be a bit more careful with its careless shouts of "infringement." One of its "future products" is SolarFilm:
SolarFilm is a sprayable nano-based solar technology that creates energy by using heat, light, and magnetics. It's unique formulation of photovoltaic (PV) and thermionic chemical compositions make it one of the most advanced solar technologies ever created. SolarFilm is durable, efficient, and extremely versatile. It can be easily applied to a variety of surfaces, such as roadways, shingles, siding, vehicle paints and much more.
This bears quite a resemblance to SolaRoad, another solar-generation-via-roadway-application product developed by Dutch company TNO. This is due for a test run in 2013, with an eye towards replacing all 85,000+ km of the Netherlands' roads and bike paths with the combination solar panel/concrete hybrid.

There's likely no infringement occurring here (in either direction), but Retti and Solaroad have shown they're more than willing to take offense at independent invention. This does very little for whatever legal case it may try to pursue, but it does a great deal towards crafting some very negative "publicity."



Reader Comments (rss)

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  1.  
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    Arsik Vek (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:02am

    Somehow, all my science fair projects as a kid now feel even more underwhelming.

     

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    Applesauce, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:04am

    Solar road

    The concept of using all that road surface as a gigantic solar sell for the electric vehicles driving on it is at least 40 years old.

    I remember reading a detailed description in a story published in Analog Science Fiction/Science Fact Magazine back in the early seventies. I've always wondered why no one in all that time did anything with this obvious idea.

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:09am

    Re:

    Don't feel bad in the 60's there was no Youtube with instructions to build X-Ray tubes.


    Heck up until the 90's nobody could learn anything because access was so difficult and buzz was hard to create in smaller real life communities, with virtual communities though, knowledge and the transfer of it is lubricated by the speed of light transmission of data packets all over the world.

     

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  4.  
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    Mason Wheeler (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:10am

    What do men consider the most valuable of talents? One mentioned artistic ability, as you so keenly guessed. Another chose great intellect. The final chose the talent to invent, the ability to design and create marvelous devices. Aesthetic genius, invention, acumen, creativity. Noble ideals indeed. Most men would pick one of those, if given a choice, and name them the greatest of talents. What beautiful liars we are. In this, as in all things, our actions give us away.

    If an artist creates a work of powerful beauty - using new and innovative techniques - she will be lauded as a master, and will launch a new movement in aesthetics. Yet what if another, working independently with that exact same level of skill, were to make the same accomplishments the very next month? Would she find similar acclaim? No. She’d be called derivative.

    Intellect. If a great thinker develops a new theory of mathematics, science, or philosophy, we will name him wise. We will sit at his feet and learn, and will record his name in history for thousands upon thousands to revere. But what if another man determines the same theory on his own, then delays in publishing his results by a mere week? Will he be remembered for his greatness? No. He will be forgotten.

    Invention. A woman builds a new design of great worth - some fabrial or feat of engineering. She will be known as an innovator. But if someone with the same talent creates the same design a year later - not realizing it has already been crafted - will she be rewarded for her creativity? No. She’ll be called a copier and a forger.

    And so, in the end, what must we determine? Is it the intellect of a genius that we revere? If it were their artistry, the beauty of their mind, would we not laud it regardless of whether we’d seen their product before? But we don’t. Given two weeks of artistic majesty, otherwise weighted equally, we will give greater acclaim to the one who did it first. It doesn’t matter what you create. It matters what you create before anyone else. So it’s not the beauty itself we admire. It’s not the force of intellect. It’s not invention, aesthetics, or capacity itself. The greatest talent that we think a man can have? Seems to me that it must be nothing more than novelty.


    -- Wit, The Way of Kings, Brandon Sanderson

     

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  5.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:10am

    I would never consciously hurt or cast aspersions on anybody.

    Except you did by implying the girl was ripping you off rather than the affair being a simple matter of independent invention.

    I don’t want to pee on anyone’s parade...

    Yet pee you do.

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:12am

    You'd think instead of threatening a lawsuit they might offer the kid a job?

    If she found technology to help/solve the problems the company has been sitting on for 20+ years (developed in 1980s and not produced by 2013?!), maybe they'd get more money from employing the student rather than suing them?!

     

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  7.  
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    Mason Wheeler (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:12am

    Re: Solar road

    Probably because of an obvious defect: Solar panels are made of glass. Roads need to be made of substances that are much more durable, much less hazardous to tires when broken, and much less smooth, (for traction,) particularly when wet.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:16am

    @ Applesauce. Not at all practical is why.

    Neither the super-cap nor solar cells in roads. It's all, er, applesauce.

    Geez, you're trying to piss all over someone's 1980's parade in favor of an incrental advance! You seem to be setting aside all prior art. May be worthwhile -- for the limited uses: the power density of this or any capacitor doesn't get anywhere near that of a battery -- but it's not going to revolutionize anything.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:16am

    What they're saying..

    What they're really saying:

    "No, our stuff isn't so simple that a high school kid thought of it - she must have stolen it from us. There is no way that she could have come up with it herself because that would invalidate our patent applications."

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:19am

    Re: @ Applesauce. Not at all practical is why.

    ^^^ Left the "me" out of "incremental". I think it's due to my humility. Either that or I just can't associate Techdirt with "mental" abilities.

     

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  11.  
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    ahow628 (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:21am

    Re:

    PU is right. This stinks.

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:22am

    I seem to recall something about patents having to be "non-obvious to those skilled in the art" or something along those lines.

    A high-school kid just proved that this particular invention is obvious to persons NOT skilled in the art. Patent application rejected.

    Done.

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:34am

    perhaps a bit of backing from the 'Intel Science Fair and the California State Science Fair that awarded the prize to Eesha Khare, as well as companies interested in not just what she has done but in all things that junior inventors are trying to do, might not go amiss? she could easily end up being bankrupted before she even gets into the work place and all because she has discovered something, in her own right, that someone else has been working on as well.

     

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    That One Guy (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:44am

    Ouch

    Out-skilled by a highschooler, no wonder they're throwing a fit over it.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:45am

    Re:

    Welcome to the narcissistic centered ownership culture.

     

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  16.  
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    6, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:50am

    Re:

    What on earth makes you think that this near genius level kid is not of skill in this art?

    I can assure you that she is. She managed to make the device, which is accomplishment enough, and takes pre-existing skill.

     

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    PRMan, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:50am

    Re:

    Exactly. The greatest buzz would have been to just offer her a job first.

     

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  18.  
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    SolkeshNaranek (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:53am

    Corporations and the people they are made of

    I found this article to be interesting on several levels.

    The portion of the article that provoked the most thought for me involved the Sloaroad CEO Kahrl Retti and another Solaroad employee Nick Cameron.

    It is often stated in the press that corporations are amoral by their very nature and measure success by putting profits above all else.

    The Solaroad CEO deciding to take the moral low road regarding the science Fair winner Eesha Khare by threatening a possible lawsuit for something the article says they hold no U.S. patent on, shows that perhaps the amorality of corporations comes from the actions of those that run the corporations.

    I wonder if Kahrl Retti stopped for one minute to consider how he would feel if he had a daughter that was threatened in a similar manner by a corporation.

    I suspect he did not for one instant pause for that introspection. I believe he saw dollars dancing in his head... dollars that were dancing away from his wallet towards someone else.

    This sounds like someone that is motivated by greed above all else.

    Another respondent here opined about Solaroad offering a job to the science fair winner. That is a most excellent idea... but apparently greed clouded the judgment that would have allowed for that decision.

     

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  19.  
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    6, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:53am

    Mike I have to be honest here man it appears that the company came up with a good product, but then she has managed to make it have even better properties by making a different device/making the device differently (specifically it appears she increased the cap of the device). Bottom line is, she probably does infringe some patents (and you're probably not even able to find them in a search), but then again, the patents themselves probably never enabled her device/method (they probably only enabled lesser devices) so they may well be invalid on enablement grounds if they try to enforce them against her. Though that takes money to assert and defend.

     

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  20.  
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    artp (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:54am

    Yup! Seriously lame

    If your technology is threatened by a high school science fair project, perhaps it's time for a new CTO? Or just fold the tent and quit embarrassing yourself?

     

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  21.  
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    Phoenix84 (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:07am

    Re:

    This.
    Really? She solved a problem they've been working on longer than she's been alive?
    What does that say about them?
    They need a new PR rep. They should have at least offered her an internship or job there. I think that would have been the easiest way to silence her. Since she'd be working for them, they would own everything she does.
    Progress is made with collaboration, not litigation.
    Oh I forgot, companies aren't interested in progress, just money. Carry on then.

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:12am

    Re:

    The second paragraph is mine. Not supposed to be italic...

     

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  23.  
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    moosehead (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:23am

    Their patents applications are dead anyway...

    http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FP TO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&d=PG01&Query=retti

    they abandoned the 20070028958 patent application in 2012 after many failed efforts.

    the patent examiner who had rejected 123 out of 126 claims for the 20090133733 application just smacked the remaining 3 which are crappy anyway.

    I don’t want to pee on anyone’s parade...just saying....

     

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  24.  
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    crade (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:34am

    I wonder who holds the patent on baking soda vulcanos.

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:38am

    TNO is more

    actually, TNO is more than a simple company - it's an entire group with very diverse operations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Organisation_for_Applied_Scientific_Research

    Among their divisions is one with quite useful applications against patent trolls: the black ops^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h experimental military weapons division. They make some interesting guided missiles for potential anti-troll research.

    http://www.tno.nl/downloads/munitions_and_guided_weapons1.pdf

    /:D

     

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  26.  
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    Atkray (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:46am

    Re:

    All we ever did with capacitors was plug them in the wall and toss them to people :/

     

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  27.  
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    Greevar (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:50am

    Ownership culture.

    It seems people just want to own property so they can sit back and collect rent from people generating actual wealth. If you own something and only rent it out to others so they can make it useful, you're a leech and don't deserve to own it. Rental property and licensing of rights are just a huge drain on the rest of us. They get all the wealth and we do all the work. That sounds like slavery to me. Most slaves had to work for nothing more than the bare minimum needed to live, how's that any different than capitalism? Cue the droves of sheep spouting "Capitalism is great! You're a commie pig looking to free load off of hard working people." No, sorry. I'm not the freeloader, our corporate majority shareholders are.

     

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  28.  
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    Zac Morris (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:03pm

    Re: Re: Solar road

    "Solar" isn't just photovoltaics; it also includes heat.

    Running steel rods through "black top" (or even concrete) highways and then concerting that heat into energy is trivial. Trivial that is, if it didn't require a bloated government contract to implement...

     

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  29.  
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    DubzDubz, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:05pm

    Sad...

    As a former semi-finalist at ISEF 2007 in "Green Engineering", I am pretty angry about this. So many businesses attend the fair and support the work that the students do. Plus, this goes against what the fair is all about. It is about trying to expand the boundaries of the science/engineering community, getting students interested in science/engineering, and fostering future careers.

    Personally, I ran into an interesting issue with another project I did. I presented it at a few other science fairs and submitted a paper to Intel STS. A few years later, I found that a research lab at a college was basically reworking my project. At first I wanted to do the American thing and sue them, then I realized that was stupid and I wrote to them, congratulating them on their success, and offered some input to help them. In the end, the project will help people and make the world a better place, I should not stand in the way of that nor should any one else.

     

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  30.  
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    Nick Cameron, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:12pm

    Addressing the matter at hand.

    Hello, this is Nick Cameron from Solaroad Technologies. This article was written in a terribly wrong light. Solaroad Technologies encourages innovation in the science world. The fact that the author of this article is intentionally trying to give us a black eye by saying we were bullying this girl is absurd. The employees of Solaroad and Retti et al have witnessed firsthand the blood, sweat, and tears that have gone into trying to bring our products to commercialization. We have literally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars filing our intellectual properties, and we are simply trying to protect ourselves, as well as our investors from people viewing the patent work, and picking off pieces of it. Perhaps this young lady did come up with this herself and congratulations to her if that is the case, that is very high level science for a young person. The issue is the fact that as a company and as individuals we have continually made sacrifices to maintain our intellectual property. Retti has dedicated his life to this work, and the fact that he is trying to protect his life's work is commendable in my book. Don't think for a second that if General Electric had patented this and the same article came out about this young lady that there would not be legal action taken. We have everything on the line here, and we have to protect what is ours. To those people who don't like it, to hell with you. We will continue to take a stand against people that we believe are infringing on our intellectual property. Whether they are young or old, companies, or individuals, the patent office should be checked before announcements are made about "new groundbreaking technologies" when they are in existence and have been.

    The author of this article seems intent on trying to make us look like terrible people. If the author knew about patents he would know that patent applications still warrant protection in the courts. Patent interference occurs when an individual claims to have invented a device that is covered under prior published patent applications. Under US law an individual who can prove first inventorship of a technology can file suit at any time to stop interference with the development and/or commercialization of the device. Also, the author does not understand the difference between a provisional and non provisional patent application. A provisional application establishes the date of first disclosure to the patent office. A non provisional application covering the same claims must be filed within a year of the provisional. When he refers to the 2006 application he apparently is ignorant of the fact that the first date of filing is the enforceable date of a patent application. Our first date of filing occurred in 2005 therefore the date of protection extends to 2005 not 2006. Further to this Retti is well within his rights to protest public domain disclosures of devices that he has already filed prior applications on. In closing, I would also like to state that having worked for Retti since 2007 I have observed on many occasions that Retti has acted in a prudent and acceptable manner regarding his activities in his elected industry. Retti has provided jobs and training for teenagers and young adults who were virtually unemployable. Retti has taken funds from his own pocket to help these young people stay in school and attend higher education. I know for a fact that Retti was paying the tuition and living expenses for at least a half dozen college students who had no means of attending college without his help. This article does a great disservice to Retti and Solaroad because of the obvious distortion of the facts given to the author of this article in a telephone conversation which he initiated with Retti. Perhaps people who do not know the extensive laws concerning patents should not comment on them.

     

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  31.  
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    Mason Wheeler (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:13pm

    Re: Re: Re: Solar road

    Trivial that is, if all the highway wasn't already in place and currently in heavy use.

    Just for the sake of discussion, let's hypothetically remove the "bloated government" and all its contracts from the picture. In their absence, how would you trivially implement a system like this? You have one absolute constraint you are required to work under: no causing massive gridlock.

     

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  32.  
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    Rich, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:20pm

    Re:

    How can you assert that she "probably does infringe some patents" and then admit NONE have been found? Logic fail.

     

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  33.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:20pm

    Re: Re:

    I have a children's (6th grade level) science project book from the '50s. One of the projects in it is building an x-ray tube. There's also a project involving refining nuclear materials.

    Some few things really were more awesome in the '50s.

     

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  34.  
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    Rich, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:22pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

     

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  35.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:26pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    To those people who don't like it, to hell with you.


    Ah. Well, fuck you too. I guess there's no point in having a discussion that might lead to mutual understanding.

     

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  36.  
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    Sonja (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:29pm

    Independent Invention

    She managed to figure it out herself, so cant she claim it is an independent invention or something?

    Might be a silly question but I am trying to understand the American patent system.

     

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  37.  
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    pixelpusher220 (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:46pm

    Re:

    As a question to illuminati -

    Isn't there some uniqueness clause in patents? Such that if someone else develops the same thing completely independently then it's not patentable?

    Serious question looking for answers :)

     

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  38.  
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    Sonja (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:48pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    If I may ask, you have been developing this product for almost 8 to 9 years if I count from 2005. Why is it that your product is not on the market yet or that we see the benefits of it in our devices?

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 12:53pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    While you have been trying to get a patent, a young girl went and solved your problem. Perhaps you should have spent more effort in engineering, and less in pursuing patents.

     

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  40.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:02pm

    I would respectfully disagree. Not only is the patent application to which you refer abandoned, your recited capacitor structure (quoted in relevant part) is: "... comprising at least two conductors that are spaced apart and substantially parallel..." whereas student Khare's capacitor structure comprises "... a core-shell nanorod electrode with a hydrogenated titanium dioxide core and polyaniline shell."

    Or, in non-patent terms, please pick on somebody your own size.

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Solar road

    In northern climates roads are continuously being resurfaced.

     

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  42.  
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    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:15pm

    Wow. Attacking an inventor for trying to protect his intellectual property. Just when I thought people couldn't sink any lower...
    Ask any business owner in the tech business where the majority of their money is spent. It isn't R&D, it isn't payroll. It's protecting their IP. Good patent attorneys cost hundreds an hour.
    Now, I might not completely understand the ins and outs of what both inventors have created but I understand the idea of protecting it.
    And for everyone jumping on the hater bandwagon, how about YOU invent something, work on it for years, put your blood, sweat and tears into it and have someone else get credit (and funding) for it and see how you feel.
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason that Solaroad's products aren't to market yet is due to funding. Or lack thereof. How about instead of being little internet wanna be tech trolls, you pony up and help them get their stuff to market.

     

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  43.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:15pm

    Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    FWIW this may be another case of critically bad lawyer-ing. If your lawyer doesn't advise you not to sue a high school student because of the fecal shower coming they are incompetent by definition. If you sue after that it is on you.

     

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  44.  
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    Rich, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:20pm

    Re:

    Patents are not property. Troll harder.

     

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  45.  
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    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:33pm

    Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    Even if said high school student is being offered millions by piggy backing on your idea while you are virtually ignored?
    Look, what this girl did is nothing short of amazing. No one is saying that she 'stole' the idea. But this science fair project is getting a lot of attention and offers for funding while Mr. Retti seems to be struggling to get funding. Perhaps, if he got funded, he would offer her a job. She would be a valuable asset to his company. Hell, she'd be a valuable asset to any company and I'm sure she can write her own ticket at this point.
    And I personally think it's unfair to accuse him of bullying when he's simply trying to protect what he sees is his idea. One that he filed for in the patent office.
    I'm no attorney and not current on patent law but the right of first filing/first to invent would be clear here since Mr. Retti first filed in 2005. I don't think Mr. Retti wants to sue a high school student. I simply think he would like a little credit for his idea.

     

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  46.  
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    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:35pm

    Re: Re:

    Patents protect the intellectual property.

     

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  47.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:36pm

    Re:

    Erm, it would appear that the threats of a suit were leveled based on a patent that has gone abandoned (11/498,759 based on provisionals 60/705,484 and 60/810,162). There is no property to protect here; notice of abandonment was sent 29-Nov-2012 after the applicant (Retti, Kahrl L. or his attorneys) failed to respond to a notice of final rejection mailed 9-May-2012.

    Further, even were the claims of that filing granted, the student's recited structure appears to be non-infringing.

    And yes, I do cost hundreds an hour and it does bother me when someone with NO patent in hand (or their employees) petulantly threatens suit.

     

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  48.  
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    Rich, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:39pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    There is no such thing as "intellectual property."

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:43pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Solar road

    Exactly. There are two seasons for driving: Winter and Construction. Both suck.

     

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  50.  
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    Androgynous Cowherd, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:44pm

    This may be just the case we need to get much more attention to the idea that independent invention should be seen as evidence of obviousness.

    Heck, there's now even a literal poster child for the cause.

     

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  51.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:50pm

    Re: Ownership culture.

    Please don't conflate real property and "intellectual property", as you just did with both your words and inference.

    "Renting" real property has great value to both parties. I only need a paint sprayer once every few years, I would much rather pay a small portion of the purchase price to rent one for a few days.

    Claiming ownership of words, sounds, images, and concepts, and attempting to control their use by others, has nothing to do with the concepts of real property ownership.

     

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  52.  
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    crade (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:52pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Patents are not intended to "protect intellectual property". They are actually intended to encourage the dissemination of ideas and to discourage hoarding of ideas (ie: protecting Intelectual property for the reality challenged).. Basically the plan was that they inventor is supposed to disclose all the details of the invention to the world in exchange for some promise of licensing and royalty fees from those who use the details they disclosed.

    They aren't really designed or intended to handle cases where people just come up with the same thing as you independantly (like this case) and where the details disclosed for the patent were not used. That kinda happened by accident as part of the brokenness of our system.

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 1:53pm

    Re: Independent Invention

    The American patent system has no provision for independent invention. If the girl's work is the same as Sloaroad's, and if they had an actual patent going for them, she would be held liable for infringement whether or not she knew about Sloaroad's invention.

     

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  54.  
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    crade (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:00pm

    Re: Re:

    If she makes, thinks or builds, she infringes on patents.

     

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  55.  
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    crade (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:02pm

    Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    Then you must be viewing a horse in the wrong light. :)

     

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    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:09pm

    Re: Re:

    I do not know the status of Mr. Retti's patents. All I'm saying is that perhaps, in frustration, he made an offhanded comment regarding legal action and the author ran with that instead of noting that someone else had the same idea in a blurb. Like I said, I'm no attorney so I have no idea whether legal action is an option as far as the patents go. But one can understand the frustration Mr. Retti must feel.
    If you read the comments posted by Mr. Retti and Mr. Cameron, all they requested was some recognition to go to Mr. Retti. It doesn't sound like Mr. Retti has any other objective than getting noticed for his idea. People like pats on the back. But the author of the article made both Mr. Retti and his company sound like they go around kicking puppies, something I seriously doubt they do.
    My idea wasn't to get into patent and IP debates, it was simply to suggest that, instead, Mr. Retti gets some credit and his company some funding. Visit the company's website, check out their crowdfunding page (if it is still up) and kick in a few bucks. Help the guy get his stuff to market. If Google and Intel won't talk to him and help, maybe the everyday person can. I can't help it, I always root for the underdog.

     

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  57.  
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    crade (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:22pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    An offhanded comment regarding legal action? Has the U.S. really fallen to the point where those exist?

    Threatening to sue people should be something that one takes seriously.

    Anyone who threatens to sue the doers with patents so they can go back to not doing is trying to hold us all back and deserves no deserves no credit or funding and they certainly aren't the underdog when pitting their resources against those of a high school kid.

     

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  58.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:25pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Sadly, Mr. Retti's technology (at least in the US) has now (as a result of the abandonment issue) been ceded to the public domain (absent extraordinary, difficult and expensive practice to resurrect the filing). That means the world & dog can now use this technology freely (at least, without claim by inventor Retti) in the US. That also makes the concept of "... kick[ing] in a few bucks" a substantially losing proposition unless you do so as nothing other than charity.

     

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  59.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:37pm

    Re: Independent Invention

    She managed to figure it out herself, so cant she claim it is an independent invention or something?

    Might be a silly question but I am trying to understand the American patent system.


    Under the patent system, this doesn't matter.

    It's stupid, but such is a huge problem with the patent system. There is no independent invention defense. It doesn't matter.

     

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  60.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:39pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    The employees of Solaroad and Retti et al have witnessed firsthand the blood, sweat, and tears that have gone into trying to bring our products to commercialization. We have literally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars filing our intellectual properties, and we are simply trying to protect ourselves, as well as our investors from people viewing the patent work, and picking off pieces of it.

    Maybe you should have spent that time and effort focused on commercialization, rather than patenting.

    And, as noted elsewhere, the patent applications have apparently been abandonded, so... ?

     

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  61.  
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    aikiwolfie (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:41pm

    What Facebook page?

    The Facebook page seems to be gone. All the links are dead.

     

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  62.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:41pm

    Re:

    Ask any business owner in the tech business where the majority of their money is spent. It isn't R&D, it isn't payroll. It's protecting their IP. Good patent attorneys cost hundreds an hour.

    I talk to tech businesses all the time and that's not even remotely close to true.

    If it is true, what an incredible waste of resources, don't you think? Shouldn't the money be focused on developing and delivering good products?

    And for everyone jumping on the hater bandwagon, how about YOU invent something, work on it for years, put your blood, sweat and tears into it and have someone else get credit (and funding) for it and see how you feel.

    If I had such a big head start, and failed to commercialize the product, I'd think "that's capitalism" and tip my hat to the person who did it right where I failed.

     

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  63.  
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    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:51pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Hmm. I guess you've never said anything you later regretted out of frustration or anger? And yes, the U.S. has fallen to that point. Ever witnessed a city bus accident? I have. I've seen people run blocks to jump on so that they could claim they were on it when the accident occurred so that they could "get paid". No, I've never done that, I wasn't brought up like that. But I've seen plenty of it. Don't get me started on the crazy stuff I've seen working in a grocery store.... Literally, people dropping bottles and or fruit and then "slipping" so they could sue. Yes, it happens. Daily.

    Do we live in the same U.S.? Because I hear people threaten to sue other people all the time. Hell, this is the country where people tried to sue McDonalds for making them fat. Remember that? I was driving and was lightly tapped from behind at a light and the woman was terrified that I was going to sue her. She drifted into me and I obviously didn't sue her, there wasn't any damage to either of our cars.

    As far as being a doer with patents, Mr. Retti filed an application. The status of that, I'm not sure of. Nor is it my concern. Does Ms. Khare have patents? The author was rather unclear on that. But since Mr. Retti went to all the time, expense and trouble to file, wouldn't that make him a doer? I don't think Mr. Retti's intent was/is to hold anyone back. If you read Mr. Cameron's response, it seems that Mr. Retti helps those who are "unemployable". It sounds like he gives the people that everyone else passes over a chance. How many people and/or companies can say that? After being a stay-at-home mom for years, re-entering the workforce after many years wasn't easy and a boss like Mr. Retti would have made my life a heck of a lot easier. I was considered "unemployable" and passed over for countless jobs because I chose to stay home with my kids and had a substantial gap in my work history. I finally found an employer who was willing to take a chance on me, and it's been great ever since. For that, Mr. Retti gets kudos from me, if what Mr. Cameron says is true.
    Ms. Khare is being courted by Intel and Google while Mr. Retti can't get them to talk to him. So tell me, who has the resources again? And after this article, Mr. Retti is most certainly the underdog.

     

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  64.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 2:57pm

    Re: Re:

    No uniqueness clause, s/he who files first gets the patent.

     

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  65.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 3:09pm

     

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  66.  
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    SolkeshNaranek (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 3:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    I'm not sure you read the same article I did.

    Holding an application is nowhere near as effective as holding an actual patent. While some royalties may be collected from infringement that occurred after the application was published, certain stipulations must be met before the original applicant can make a claim for damages. One of these requirements is that the infringer must have "actual notice" of the published patent. It's hard to imagine that most (if any) science fair projects begin with a patent search, so the noise Solaroad's making only serves one purpose: to inform the involved parties that a.) it exists, b.) it's willing to sue and c.) it's filed an application(s) that might tenuously be related to Khare's work. If she chooses to commercialize her supercapacitor work, Retti can claim she had "actual notice."

    Sounds like he is quite willing to sue if the young lady makes or attempts to make any money as a result of her project.

    Perhaps Retti should spend less time fretting about inventive 18-year-olds and start refining its existing product line. A visit to Solaroad's site gives you the feeling the products it's touting have endless upside, but digging around a little more leads to the impression that its main products exist only as PDFs and Powerpoint presentations.

    One of the signs of a potential patent troll is holding patents (or in this case an application) and doing nothing with it. No product, no further development, just a miserably failed attempt to get funding.

    While throwing around nearly baseless legal threats, Solaroad might want to be a bit more careful with its careless shouts of "infringement." One of its "future products" is SolarFilm

    This bears quite a resemblance to SolaRoad, another solar-generation-via-roadway-application product developed by Dutch company TNO. This is due for a test run in 2013, with an eye towards replacing all 85,000+ km of the Netherlands' roads and bike paths with the combination solar panel/concrete hybrid.

    There's likely no infringement occurring here (in either direction), but Retti and Solaroad have shown they're more than willing to take offense at independent invention. This does very little for whatever legal case it may try to pursue, but it does a great deal towards crafting some very negative "publicity."


    More potential troll behavior by making false or inflated product or patent claims.

    Sorry, but I don't see the CEO as someone being slighted by the science project winner or a lack of funding.

    It still seems as if he is a greedy individual willing to bully and setup for a lawsuit against someone that independently came up with her research that surpasses an idea he had in the 1980s.

     

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  67.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 3:29pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    "We have literally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars filing our intellectual properties..."

    While it looks like you still have a shot at Canada and Mexico, your 2007 publication is dead and your publication graciously ceded to the US public.

    Your lack of understanding of the patent process is made clear with this useless, sub-Mandrake hand-waving gesture:

    "Further to this Retti is well within his rights to protest public domain disclosures of devices that he has already filed prior applications on."

    His "rights" to nondisclosure died 18 months after the priority date courtesy of the PCT filing, as prescribed by law. Publication is required and diligent prosecution is required to keep the filing alive.

    Your blather does a grave disservice to your employer; many here are clearly better versed in patent law than you.

    N.B.: Any attempt to revive the 11/498759 filing will be met with a gratis ex-parte opposition.

     

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  68.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 4:15pm

    Re:

    And for everyone jumping on the hater bandwagon, how about YOU invent something, work on it for years, put your blood, sweat and tears into it and have someone else get credit (and funding) for it and see how you feel.

    You mean try being a design engineer for a company 9 hours a day, 5 days a week like most middle class engineers who never see a patent or cut of the profits (okay maybe in the form of a $50-100 bonus for making something worth millions)?

    Welcome to real life.

     

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  69.  
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    apauld (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 4:32pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    "The author of this article seems intent on trying to make us look like terrible people."
    You are terrible people, and you know it.
    "obvious distortion of the facts"
    Yep, that is exactly what your comment is attempting (and failing) to do.
    "Perhaps people who do not know the extensive laws concerning patents should not comment on them."
    Perhaps people who get called out for be complete asshats should not try to justify their actions by adding superfluous details on how great they think they are.

     

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  70.  
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    aldestrawk (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 4:32pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    It is not patent infringement to do research on a subject or device that is covered under a patent. It is not patent infringement to even create a device that is already covered by a patent belonging to someone else. Infringement only happens when someone, without licensing a patent, tries to sell a product, or license the technology, or file their own patent (interference). Solaroad Technologies, Kahrl Retti in particular, has jumped the gun in whining about patent infringement. They have done it in a way that comes across as sour grapes and jealousy toward an 18 year high school girl.
    Firstly, you should know that if Eesha Khare were to try to commercialize what she got the Intel Young Scientists Award for, the intellectual property would be assigned to the University of California, as she did her work under the tutelage and in the lab of Yat Li at UC Santa Cruz. You might have done a lot better by just sending a threatening letter to the UCSC Office For Management of Intellectual Property rather than give your company some bad publicity by resorting to petulant whining in the tech media. Do you seriously think that projects for the Intel Science and Engineer Fair should be vetted beforehand for possible patent infringement? The focus here is on science education. The $50,000 award that Eesha Khare received was for her education, not an investment into a, potentially infringing, product. Finally, Eesha khare may eventually start up or be involved with a company that looks to actually develop a real usable product based on supercapacitors. Then, and only then, should you threaten and sue if you really think your patent (if not abandoned) is being infringed upon. We look forward to that future court fight.

     

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  71.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 4:39pm

    Re:

    Perhaps that is why they are suing, for proving their patent obvious.

     

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  72.  
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    Internet Zen Master (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 4:43pm

    Here's a thought Mr. Retti

    You're company is in a rut, yes?

    This girl has proven that she's bright, capable, and inventive. All great supposedly great qualities in an employee (or so they keep telling me out the employment applications).

    Here's a brilliant idea Mr. Retti: instead of threatening legal action, how about you try to HIRE Miss Khare. Then your company might actually be able to start selling ACTUAL PRODUCTS (novel concept, that) instead of your employees sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.

     

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  73.  
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    apauld (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 4:45pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I put a twenty up that the IP address of this commenter is in the same building as the IP address of Nick Cameron.

     

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  74.  
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    Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 4:55pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    First of all, thanks to everyone else who responded to your comment before I had a chance to. Reading through the comments, there's not much more to add.

    I'll just respond to your statements about the "great disservice" this post does to your company.

    First off, your legal threats do a great disservice to your company. I think you realize that, which is why the FB posts have been vanished into the Google Cache cornfield.

    Here's a link to your post on Solaroad's FB page that ends with "ITS A GOOD WAY TO GET SUED."

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jpARSrsZWL8J:https://www.facebook.com /Solaroad/posts/480250905377807+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    Here's it preserved at Imgur, in case Google "forgets."

    http://i.imgur.com/8VCDkCw.png

    Now, everything stated by you or Retti is quoted directly. You're not disputing what was said, but you feel justified in acting this way, despite the fact that the patents you claim to be "protecting" have been abandoned. I can't make you look too much worse than you already do.

    I'll be updating the post to add this screenshot since you've decided to protect your (abandoned) patent (applications) by deleting your Facebook rant.

     

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  75.  
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    apauld (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:10pm

    Re:

    "Retti and Trionfo were allegedly bottling the fluid intended to sell the bottles as an inhalant, Batton said."

    Retti Sr should patent the idea of using starter fluid as an inhalant.

     

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  76.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:14pm

    Re: What they're saying..

    Wow... making things up are we?

     

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  77.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:16pm

    Re: Re:

    Sorry chickenshit, but no suit has been filed. Thanks for playing though.

     

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  78. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:23pm

    Re: Re:

    So wait... now when someone discovers something they shouldn't expect to get rewarded for it? It's whomever has the most resources, or richest backers wins? Now ask yourself why few want to start a business in this country. You're part of the problem. Tell you what; next time you invent something, after years of work and money put into YOUR project, give the idea away. Is that how you're suggesting this is supposed to work? SMH

     

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  79.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:26pm

    Re: Ouch

    Outskilled? :LOL:: Hardly. You know why these companies are courting her, right? She's a nice, cute high school kid. It looks good for them if they can team up with her. It's all about their image, and nothing more. Ownership rights be damned.

     

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  80.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:28pm

    Re: Re:

    Heh... maybe this will make the "Huff"ington Post...

     

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  81.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:32pm

    Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    Greedy? Who's the greedy party here? I would suggest that it's Khare who is seeing dollar signs rather than the other way around. Do you know Mr. Retti personally? Then what you are saying is nothing more than opinionated conjecture, isn't it? And btw, much of what the 'author' here has said is nothing more than trolling.

     

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  82.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:34pm

    Re: Re:

    Just because he hasn't found them, or thinks they may be hard to find, doesn't mean they don't exist.

     

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  83.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:39pm

    Re: Their patents applications are dead anyway...

    Where does it say these were denied? Or, as you put it, dead?

     

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  84.  
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    Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:43pm

    Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    Solaroad changing its name to Snuffcore? Seems a rather oblique angle to pitch alternative energy solutions from.

     

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  85.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:44pm

    Re: Sad...

    Did you apply for a patent based on what you had developed? Therein lies the difference.

     

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  86.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:45pm

    Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    What part of unable to get funding don't you understand?

     

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  87.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:47pm

    Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    You obviously don't hold a patent on anything. Your opinion is irrelevant.

     

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  88.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:47pm

    Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    The patents have not been abandoned from what I am seeing on the patent office website.

     

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  89.  
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    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:51pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    try again

     

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  90.  
    icon
    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I'll take that bet.

     

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  91.  
    icon
    snuffcore (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 5:54pm

    Re:

    And this has what to do with the matter at hand troll?

     

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  92.  
    icon
    Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 6:00pm

    Re: Re: Their patents applications are dead anyway...

    Public PAIR has the info. Claims 1-123 have been withdrawn. 124-126 have been rejected (non-final) as of 3/21/13.

     

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  93.  
    icon
    Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 6:02pm

    Re: What Facebook page?

    Updated the post with Google cache links and a screenshot.

     

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  94.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 6:36pm

    Re: Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    Nope... changing it to "Huffcore"

    You (snuffcore) and Sandergrrrl have that "sock puppet" aspect we've all come to love.

     

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  95.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 6:37pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    When you are top executives in a company, you do not ever say something on the record that could come back to bite you. This isn't a matter of regret, this is a matter of standing before a stadium of millions and issuing a threat, whether you truly mean it or not. You just don't do it!

     

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  96.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 6:45pm

    Re: Re: Ouch

    Hi Kahrl.

    Just admit she has more talent and is smarter than you.

     

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  97.  
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    moosehead (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 6:46pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    you should get yourselves better lawyers.

     

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  98.  
    icon
    Greevar (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 7:11pm

    Re: Re: Ownership culture.

    "'Renting' real property has great value to both parties."

    What does value have to do with it? Absolutely nothing, because value is meaningless. What matters in real life is human needs and available resources. The problem is, property makes it possible to hold those resources for ransom and make people into slaves. Make no mistake about it, we all are slaves. If you have to trade your labor in exchange for the means to live, you are a slave. It's one thing to be at the mercy of nature for food and shelter, it's quite another to be at the mercy of property owners that want to exploit your needs for their own gains.

    "Claiming ownership of words, sounds, images, and concepts, and attempting to control their use by others, has nothing to do with the concepts of real property ownership."

    It has everything to do with it. It's the same insidious game. Own something, then keep everyone else from having it unless they labor to make someone else rich in order to get some symbolic units of labor to exchange for access to something you simply put borders around. It's a literal walled garden, but it's still just a border that is created in the mind of every person. People put these walls around resources that have been in existence since long before our first hominid ancestors were born and people think that they have the right to claim exclusive ownership over it.

    There is one and only one exclusive form of property in this universe and that is our will to choose what we do. There is only one truly scarce resource, time. Everything else can be combined, transformed, and remixed without end. Matter is simply information and like information, it can be manipulated if you have the right tools. Just like the information age gave us the tools to create any content we wished, tools will one day exist to allow us to produce any material items we need by our own will.

     

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  99.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 7:15pm

    Re:

    Who would support and fund this douchbag company.

    I think it is obvious why they have not been able to get funding in 9 years since they lodged their patent application.

     

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  100.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 7:29pm

    Re: Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    You obviously don't hold a patent on anything. Your opinion is irrelevant.


    And what issued patents do you hold?

    Fwiw, the first sign of someone not knowing what they're talking about in a dispute over patents is the person who claims that you can't discuss patents if you don't have one. We're talking about the impact on innovation and the economy of patents here. By your reasoning, we should say that anyone with a patent is biased and their opinion is irrelevant. Or, that anyone without an economics degree is irrelevant. But that's idiotic. We assume that plenty of people may have valid input into the subject.

    Oh, and, seriously, logging in from the same IP as the other angry commenter defending Solaroad... suggests you're being less than forthright about who you are. So, in the interest of being honest, what's your connection to Solaroad?

     

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  101.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 7:36pm

    Re: Re: Sad...

    No, the difference is that they decided that it is better for society to advance the technology than to try to sue someone using it

     

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  102.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 7:36pm

    Re: Re: Sad...

    No, the difference is that they decided that it is better for society to advance the technology than to try to sue someone using it

     

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  103.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 7:36pm

    Re: Re: Sad...

    No, the difference is that they decided that it is better for society to advance the technology than to try to sue someone using it

     

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  104.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 7:52pm

    Re: Re: Their patents applications are dead anyway...

    It says so on pages 1-2 of 493 of the file history for patent application serial # 11/498,759. See pp 10-40 of 493 for the final rejection office action notice.

     

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  105.  
    identicon
    Bolo, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:05pm

    Re

    C,mon, attacking this young lady is just wrong, let her produce her product\idea for the common good of man. Who cares about your profit, or how long you've been working on it. This makes you no better than companies like GE or Walmart. Giant conglomerates that just suck the life out of this country...

     

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  106.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:18pm

    Re: Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    Well, Mr. Cameron (you really shouldn't keep using the "...at hand" language in multiply named postings), as mentioned, supra, it says so on pages 1-2 of 493 of the file history for patent application serial # 11/498,759. See pp 10-40 of 493 for the final rejection office action notice.

    File histories can be downloaded via the uspto's public pair system.

     

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  107.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:29pm

    Re: Re:

    Great concept, except anyone bright enough to work through 30-40 rejections from academics with semi labs before hitting pay dirt really would be too smart to throw in with such a scatter-shot Solyndra wanna be.

     

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  108.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:46pm

    Re: Re:

    Looks like someone's got their patents, I mean panties in a twist.

     

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  109.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:52pm

    Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    I think their representation is quite skilled, really, It is a common practice to allow final-rejected and relatively hopeless applications to quietly go abandoned such that a later "unintentional" petition stands a snowball's chance of surviving.

    Since the same law firm is:

    - filing electronically
    - actively prosecuting another patent for the same inventor
    - apparently aware enough of the need for a delay to file and pay for an extension

    this may be a hard row to hoe. At the very least, even if revived, RCE paid and prosecution results in issuance, the spectre of inequitable conduct (rarely seriously raised these days at trial) is a real threat. The PTO might take it poorly if, after 6 months of abandonment and this horrific PR nightmare is played out in public, such a revival petition is filed.

    The "unintentional" argument would be a load of bollocks and, with unpleasant public exposure in place, the PTO may understandably reject a petition to revive.

     

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  110.  
    identicon
    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:56pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    I assure you I am no ones sock puppet.
    But this story and the comments have taught me a great deal. So thanks for that. I've lost yet more faith in people, and I honestly didn't think that was possible.

    I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. If Mr. Retti said that he invented it first, I'll go with that. He has the proof of an application at the patent office, abandoned or not. I honestly think, and I will not waiver from this opinion, that all he wanted was a little recognition for his work. A little recognition goes a long way. Funny, I just did a patent search for Eesha Khare and what do you know, not a thing. But I'm sure the big money behind Google and Intel will change that. Sure, her college is paid for and that's awesome. But don't tell me she isn't going to have companies fighting over her when she gets out. And she deserves to.

    There has been no suit filed so you guys are spewing hate at a guy who actually invented something and, by all accounts, has spent his time, money and life trying to do something with that. So I ask YOU, what have you done?? And you want to talk greater good? Watch the videos posted on their (solaroad's) FB page, the Gridkicker is a pretty cool idea. How many news stories do you see on a semi-regular basis about people who put their gas generators in their homes and end up killing their entire families? Saving just one family would be the greater good in my book and if the Gridkicker could do that well... And let's not even get into how helpful a Gridkicker would've been after Hurricane Sandy last year. Oh how quickly we in the US forget.

    I think it's great that Ms. Khare has a bright future ahead of her. And I hold out hope that she will do great things.
    Me? I'm content to work my not-so-great job, hang out with my kids, do little secret acts of kindness and try to be the best person I can be. I don't invent things, my brain isn't wired for such things. But every so often, I have an glimpse of what it must be like.
    So, hate me all you want. I'll almost always stick up for the one being attacked. And this article was nothing but an attack on Mr. Retti and his company. I clicked on it because I read about her winning the science fair, thought it was awesome (my oldest is a bit of a nerd, and proud of it and I used Ms. Khare as a real example of what she can strive for) and wondered what this was all about. Not that any of you care about that but when you attack ME and call me a sock puppet? Mr. Cameron is right, to hell with you. I won't be back on here, I'm going to interact with actual people and do stuff.

     

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  111.  
    identicon
    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:58pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Put me in on that action as well.

     

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  112.  
    identicon
    Wintermute, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:58pm

    Facebook Page

    FYI, not only has the Facebook post been removed, but a conversation on their page has been deleted as well, calling them out for threatening an 18 year old student. The son could not explain how "IT IS A GOOD WAY TO GET SUED" might not be a threat, and then took offence to comments using "you" on the company's page when referring to the company.

     

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  113.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 8:58pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    And, with particularity, you do not threaten children. You especially don't threaten bright and media-popular children. And you really, really don't want that threat to spill over onto Intel (the contest coordinator) in any way, shape or form.

     

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  114.  
    identicon
    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I'll give you that. But, in my habit of giving people the benefit of the doubt, I can say that when I am passionate about something as Mr. Retti must be, I tend to get fired up and sometimes speak before I think about it biting me later. It's something I'm working on. I'll be the first to admit that I have a temper, but I also will tell you that I work every day to keep it under control. Some days are better than others.
    But let me ask you, do you know or want an inventor who ISN'T passionate about his inventions? I don't know Ms. Khare, but I would be curious as to her thoughts on all of this. Would she want people attacking Mr. Retti? THAT is an article I would be interested in reading.

     

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  115.  
    identicon
    Teaman, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Solar road

    True. I live in rural Minnesota, and most of the roads in this area aren't paved. If an electric company wanted to come out here and pave our roads plus give us a cheaper source of electricity, and send the excess to neighboring towns and cities. We'd more than appreciate it.

     

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  116.  
    identicon
    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:20pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Then why isn't the writer getting the wrath of the masses? After all, he is the one who put all of this out here online. If not for this article, would anyone's panties be in a bind?
    And so you are saying as long as children are bright and media popular, it's ok for them to do whatever they want with no consequences? Wow, that's a whole generation of Lindsay Lohan and Amanda Bynes' just waiting to happen. Sorry for the sarcasm, but as a parent, that doesn't fly with me. My kids know that there are consequences to their actions. No excuses, no exceptions. They get in trouble, I will help them how I can, but they are going to face the music, so to speak.
    As far as Intel is concerned, again, the writer is on the hook for this one.

     

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  117.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:20pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    You attack your own straw men and defeat them well.

    "I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. If Mr. Retti said that he invented it first, I'll go with that."

    I have not argued this point. Mr. Cameron (I believe) stated that documentary evidence from 1988 exists for Mr. Retti's work. At the very least, he filed his patents on the relevant subject matter starting in 2005. Again no dispute, so you win no points here.

    "...all he wanted was a little recognition for his work." No, no, no. From his quoted comment on NetworkWorld:
    “'I don’t want to have to bring legal action against her,' he added. 'But if she raises capital, I’ll have to stop her.” That is substantially different from "recognition."

    The fact that Ms. Khare does or does not have patents (in this arena or others) is immaterial.

    I do not heap scorn (or hatred) on anyone who asserts a valid property right. There is nothing here but empty threats and bluster and this gives me great psychic dyspepsia.

    I have not accorded you LambChop status; that appears to be the posting of another who appears less interested in the substance of the issue. Your representation of "support for the underdog" naming Mr. Retti seems misguided in the "corporate adult threatening a child" scenario. I can't read this any other way, given a baseless threat over an improper assertion of rights that have given up, by no action or inaction on the part of the student involved.

     

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  118.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:22pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    ooops -- please change "have given up" to "have been given up"

     

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  119.  
    identicon
    Timofey Klubov, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:28pm

    Hello, my name is Timofey Klubov. I'm turning 19 in June, and I worked with Solaroad since I was 15. I've helped build most of the products on the website from scratch, and Kahrl teaching me. Out of all the things I learned in school, and in work at Solaroad, I have used much more from work. Kahrl helped to give me, and other students and disadvantaged children the chance to make some money and succeed. I have watched people attempt to steal documents, prototypes, and all kinds of things right in front of my eyes. Kahrl's technology works great and can save the world, but people become greedy once they see how great the technology is, and all they want to do is steal it and cut us out.

    When there was no power at our office because of the hurricane, our technology allowed us to go to work. When power went out in Kahrl's neighborhood, he is the one to help everyone out.

    So many people have came into our office, lied, cheated, and then sued Kahrl because he didn't let step all over him and take his technology.

    If any of you have questions or don't believe I am real, here is my facebook: https://www.facebook.com/timofeyk?ref=tn_tnmn

    You all sound like some very grown, wise, "keyobard warriors"

    If you would want to actually talk to someone on the inside of the company, please contact me. I bet none of you have even tried to help another person other than yourselves.

    Please think about your actions, and what kind of battle you all are trying to fight. Bringing up past mistakes, and just in general hating. We are all in this world together, so we should all seek the very best for our future.

    Kahrl has obviously been thinking about that for a long time, how to improve the world we live in. I do not see any of you commentors teaching me how to solder, wire, sand, paint, use a milling machine, and create something to be proud of. I don't see you putting me to work and giving me a better chance at a job, and a higher wage, rather than starting at a dead end teenage job.

     

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  120.  
    identicon
    Timofey Klubov, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:28pm

    Hello, my name is Timofey Klubov. I'm turning 19 in June, and I worked with Solaroad since I was 15. I've helped build most of the products on the website from scratch, and Kahrl teaching me. Out of all the things I learned in school, and in work at Solaroad, I have used much more from work. Kahrl helped to give me, and other students and disadvantaged children the chance to make some money and succeed. I have watched people attempt to steal documents, prototypes, and all kinds of things right in front of my eyes. Kahrl's technology works great and can save the world, but people become greedy once they see how great the technology is, and all they want to do is steal it and cut us out.

    When there was no power at our office because of the hurricane, our technology allowed us to go to work. When power went out in Kahrl's neighborhood, he is the one to help everyone out.

    So many people have came into our office, lied, cheated, and then sued Kahrl because he didn't let step all over him and take his technology.

    If any of you have questions or don't believe I am real, here is my facebook: https://www.facebook.com/timofeyk?ref=tn_tnmn

    You all sound like some very grown, wise, "keyobard warriors"

    If you would want to actually talk to someone on the inside of the company, please contact me. I bet none of you have even tried to help another person other than yourselves.

    Please think about your actions, and what kind of battle you all are trying to fight. Bringing up past mistakes, and just in general hating. We are all in this world together, so we should all seek the very best for our future.

    Kahrl has obviously been thinking about that for a long time, how to improve the world we live in. I do not see any of you commentors teaching me how to solder, wire, sand, paint, use a milling machine, and create something to be proud of. I don't see you putting me to work and giving me a better chance at a job, and a higher wage, rather than starting at a dead end teenage job.

     

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  121.  
    identicon
    Wintermute, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:29pm

    Re:

    Been there, done that. Now only work on open source projects as a result ;)

     

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  122.  
    identicon
    Wintermute, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:50pm

    Re:

    Ms. Klubov, even if everything you say is true, I find no relevance to the discussion at hand. I would suggest that you Google the term "logical fallacy" to see just how irrelevant it it.

     

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  123.  
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    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:50pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    I can see both sides of this, and I think that is my problem. I see a man who invented something years ago who has been trying to raise funding and employ the 'unemployable' and I see a bright girl with an amazing future who is being courted by major companies with money. You have to admit, if you were in that situation, you would find it frustrating. You've been trying to get noticed for years to no avail and all of a sudden someone much younger is getting attention and offers for something you did years before. Should Mr. Retti have taken some time to think out a better worded response? Yes. But given that he claims that he has gone through this a dozen or so times (it's somewhere in the gaggle of comments or in the article on techworld), I would hazard to guess that the frustration finally boiled over and he spoke before thinking about the ramifications. Is it a PR nightmare? Oh yes. Am I glad I'm not in PR? You betcha.
    And by all accounts, Ms. Khare is an adult. She is 18, she's not a child. I will agree his statements were poorly chosen. It will be interesting to see what comes next.

     

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  124.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:52pm

    Re: Re:

    Err... Mr... Sorry... Again, relevance?

     

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  125.  
    identicon
    timofey klubov, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:58pm

    Re: Re:

    Sorry that you feel this way.

     

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  126.  
    identicon
    Sandergrrrl, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 9:59pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    Snuffcore is my husband. And after I got angry and upset about some of the hateful comments on here, he did what my guy does. He always has my back. And he got offline because he doesn't know enough about patents or this particular situation to speak about it. And he's not going to defend something he can't back up with sources. He was defending and supporting me.

     

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  127.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:27pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Who is giving away what? The girl who did her own independent invention?

     

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  128.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:42pm

    Re: Re: Ouch

    Tough shit you can't own ideas, eh?

     

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  129.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:47pm

    Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    I would suggest that it's Khare who is seeing dollar signs rather than the other way around. Do you know Mr. Retti personally? Then what you are saying is nothing more than opinionated conjecture, isn't it?

    Do you know Ms. Khare personally? Then what you are saying is nothing more than opinionated conjecture, isn't it?

     

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  130.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:49pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Just because he hasn't found them, or thinks they may be hard to find, doesn't mean they do exist.

     

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  131.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:51pm

    Re: Re: Their patents applications are dead anyway...

    You'll keep on riding that dead horse, will you?

     

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  132.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 10:57pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    And just look how well that worked.

     

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  133.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    Mr. Cameron is right, to hell with you.

    Well, thanks and f*** you right back.

    I won't be back on here

    But you are, isn't that surprising?

     

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  134.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:01pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    To those people who don't like it, to hell with you.

    Well thanks, and f*** you right back, losers.

     

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  135.  
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    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    But, in my habit of giving people the benefit of the doubt

    Except of course when a teenager does an independent invention in your field that you somehow feel entitled too, eh?

     

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  136.  
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    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:05pm

    Re: Re:

    You mad, bro?

     

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  137.  
    icon
    techflaws (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:07pm

    Re:

    I don't see you putting me to work and giving me a better chance at a job, and a higher wage, rather than starting at a dead end teenage job.

    So what? I wasn't aware we were in any way responsible for your education.

     

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  138.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:11pm

    Re: Re: Re: Their patents applications are dead anyway...

    It's a matter of public record -- please have a look for yourself, loaded directly from the uspto. And you are correct, their horse, in this case, is quite moribund.

     

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  139.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:31pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    Mr. Retti's frustration has, then, chosen a poor venue (attacking a high school student who, even though of the age of majority in California, is still not an match for someone who would purport to be a seasoned inventor and erstwhile businessperson) with a flaccid weapon (an abandoned patent application) for acting out. I do not know and could not begin to reasonably speculate the motivation that drives not only his action but the interest in matters irrelevant to the limited facts that I can derive from this badly performed drama.

    Were I to indulge in speculation, I would predict this event is professional seppuku for Mr. Retti and his business interests. This will also (I predict) leave in indelible mark on Ms. Khare, and not a good or welcome one at that. For at least that reason, I am saddened. What was and is a technological triumph has been tainted by the bald face of covetousness flavoured with falsehood (or, at best, ignorance).

     

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  140.  
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    Anonymous, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:34pm

    Basically they're bullying this girl because SHE fixed the problem and they want the proceeds. That's what it boils down to. So they come in, claim she stole their idea, then like the bad tech version of Walmart, run off with all the money and everything else, while the young inventor is left feeling like shit because she gets nothing. If they really had something defensible, they'd have already gotten funding. No one will back it because it doesn't WORK. But hers does. It's loud and clear! If your initial idea was GOOD, you'd have a full patent by now for the exact same thing she did. It's a junk claim pure and simple. You really think a girl in high school pored over and through useless rejected patents (not even a full patent) to come up with her high school science fair project? Wow. Corporate idiocy at its finest! There is NO reason for this company to squash brilliance like that. Back off. The idea ISN'T yours.



    Addressing the matter at hand.
    Hello, this is Nick Cameron from Solaroad Technologies. This article was written in a terribly wrong light. Solaroad Technologies encourages innovation in the science world. The fact that the author of this article is intentionally trying to give us a black eye by saying we were bullying this girl is absurd. The employees of Solaroad and Retti et al have witnessed firsthand the blood, sweat, and tears that have gone into trying to bring our products to commercialization. We have literally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars filing our intellectual properties, and we are simply trying to protect ourselves, as well as our investors from people viewing the patent work, and picking off pieces of it. Perhaps this young lady did come up with this herself and congratulations to her if that is the case, that is very high level science for a young person. The issue is the fact that as a company and as individuals we have continually made sacrifices to maintain our intellectual property. Retti has dedicated his life to this work, and the fact that he is trying to protect his life's work is commendable in my book. Don't think for a second that if General Electric had patented this and the same article came out about this young lady that there would not be legal action taken. We have everything on the line here, and we have to protect what is ours. To those people who don't like it, to hell with you. We will continue to take a stand against people that we believe are infringing on our intellectual property. Whether they are young or old, companies, or individuals, the patent office should be checked before announcements are made about "new groundbreaking technologies" when they are in existence and have been.

    The author of this article seems intent on trying to make us look like terrible people. If the author knew about patents he would know that patent applications still warrant protection in the courts. Patent interference occurs when an individual claims to have invented a device that is covered under prior published patent applications. Under US law an individual who can prove first inventorship of a technology can file suit at any time to stop interference with the development and/or commercialization of the device. Also, the author does not understand the difference between a provisional and non provisional patent application. A provisional application establishes the date of first disclosure to the patent office. A non provisional application covering the same claims must be filed within a year of the provisional. When he refers to the 2006 application he apparently is ignorant of the fact that the first date of filing is the enforceable date of a patent application. Our first date of filing occurred in 2005 therefore the date of protection extends to 2005 not 2006. Further to this Retti is well within his rights to protest public domain disclosures of devices that he has already filed prior applications on. In closing, I would also like to state that having worked for Retti since 2007 I have observed on many occasions that Retti has acted in a prudent and acceptable manner regarding his activities in his elected industry. Retti has provided jobs and training for teenagers and young adults who were virtually unemployable. Retti has taken funds from his own pocket to help these young people stay in school and attend higher education. I know for a fact that Retti was paying the tuition and living expenses for at least a half dozen college students who had no means of attending college without his help. This article does a great disservice to Retti and Solaroad because of the obvious distortion of the facts given to the author of this article in a telephone conversation which he initiated with Retti. Perhaps people who do not know the extensive laws concerning patents should not comment on them.

     

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  141.  
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    apauld (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:35pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    "I assure you I am no ones sock puppet."

    I call bullshit on that.

     

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  142.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:38pm

    Re:

    Interesting. Since you were working for this form at the age of 15, did you have a work permit (this should be a matter of public record) and did the conditions of your employment comport with Maryland's child labor laws (see: http://www.umbc.edu/che/tahlessons/pdf/Methods_of_Reform_The_Lowell_Mill_Girls_RS_1.pdf ) ?

     

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  143.  
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    apauld (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:43pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    There is only one person here that can take me up on that (the person who would know the answer), and your not him. Plus, engaging you at this point would be like engaging a pile of crap that my golden has left in the backyard, as it would be as pointless and irrelevant as everything you have added to this conversation.

     

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  144.  
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    apauld (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:48pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Wow. Did they just ship you in from the head injury ward?

     

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  145.  
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    apauld (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:50pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    AC- love that reply, love it

     

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  146.  
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    apauld (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:54pm

    Re: Re:

    well said.

     

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  147.  
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    apauld (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:56pm

    Re: Re:

    ^^^^
    This is why I love this site.

     

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  148.  
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    Tek'a R (profile), Jun 3rd, 2013 @ 11:58pm

    Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    Perhaps this young lady did come up with this herself and congratulations to her if that is the case, that is very high level science for a young person.


    Perhaps.

    Could you clarify that statement?

    Do you or do you not believe that Eesha Khare knowingly stole unmarketed prototypes from solaroad or directly copied data from public filings, produced a prototype, testing, background material and results to meet the standards of the Intel ISEF and then lied repeatedly and continually to judges, interviewers and assorted press concerns?

    simple question, should have a simple answer right?

     

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  149.  
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    Anonymous, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 12:03am

    (I'm the same person who re-posted the comment from that Nick person.)

    I'm kinda amused that this guy has all these people "defending him." I think it's basically just his staff or him making things up because he knows he lost. They all write the same which leads me to believe that they are all the same person. And the members of the company keep getting into it with people on this article. It's just really crappy PR. They should seriously abandon that tactic.

    I'll reiterate. Retti is it? If Retti had something that was workable, a.) he'd already have a patent. Further, b.) he'd get that funding from Intel and Google. He's been working on it for 20 approximate years? Then he should have something to show for it by now. Business 101. If you can't get funding, then the way it is described in the patent ISN'T a good idea, period. It either doesn't work as expected, or it isn't economical to produce or both. Places like Google and Intel don't just ignore your work for no reason. They attract and have some of the finest minds in the industry. If there is something to be gained from your work when you pitch it to them, then you are going to get that funding. If you don't get the funding then you need to go back to the drawing board because there is a serious FLAW in your idea.

     

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  150.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 12:06am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Awesome it was how simple the explanation they gave was on how those things worked, anybody could understand, you get explanations today but darn if that many people can make heads or tails of it.

    Also there was not this tremendous fear of getting hurt, people experimented a lot, is like the nation is paralyzed by fear these days.

     

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  151.  
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    That One Guy (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 12:16am

    Re: Here's a thought Mr. Retti

    While it might have been a good idea before the whole 'if you show us up like that you're going to be sued' bit went down, after that threat it would be idiotic in the extreme for her to accept a job with them, as odds are they'd just say that now that she's working for them, her invention is now theirs, and by the way she's fired.

     

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  152.  
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    The Old Man in The Sea, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 12:26am

    Re: Re: Re: Ownership culture.

    Trading your labour for anything else (including the means to live) is not slavery, it's business. It is your choice as to what you negotiate in exchange.

    Slavery is where you are property. You have no choices. Obedience or death. As property your owner can do anything they want with you, including selling you, disposing of you(terminating your existence), damaging you (torturing you), etc.

    Just because there are greedy people who want to take advantage of you, doesn't mean that you are a slave. You can always sell you labour to someone else or live somewhere else, or do something else. You have a choice.

    You either work or you don't work. Your choice. You can accumulate or not accumulate again your choice.

    Ownership of things has been around for a long time. Where it gets prickly is when we start allowing as a normal course of events the ownership of ideas. Ephemeral things do not have a substance that restricts but expands.

    Finally, you seem to be of the mindset that someone owes you a living. I hope that I have misunderstood your perspective here and that you are a person who willingly supports his family.

     

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  153.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 12:27am

    Since she won the contest, Intel should back her up on a patent. Then, when Retti tries to sue, Intel should buy him out and fire HIM.

     

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  154.  
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    That One Guy (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 12:28am

    Re: Re: Ouch

    Oh yeah, it couldn't possibly be the fact that she came up with a nice workable alternative to the thing you'd failed to get to market or even successfully patent, it must just be that pretty face they're looking to hire. /s

     

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  155.  
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    That One Guy (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 12:34am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Yeah, because suing someone, and telling them you will sue them if they do something is totally different and has nothing to do with each other at all. /s

    Seriously, that didn't work for CBS, and it won't work for you.

     

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  156.  
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    SolkeshNaranek (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 12:40am

    Re: Nick Cameron from Solaroad Technologies

    The fact that the author of this article is intentionally trying to give us a black eye by saying we were bullying this girl is absurd.

    The author of the article has no need to try and give Solaroad a black eye. It appears both the CEO's own words and yours did that all by themselves.

    The author of this article seems intent on trying to make us look like terrible people.

    Again, your own words make you seem like terrible people.

    I would also like to state that having worked for Retti since 2007 I have observed on many occasions that Retti has acted in a prudent and acceptable manner regarding his activities in his elected industry.

    If by his "elected industry" you mean looking like a patent troll, then I agree with you.


    We have everything on the line here, and we have to protect what is ours. To those people who don't like it, to hell with you.

    It seems you and others of your company have a problem with impulse control.

    I would suggest your company's officers (and spokesperson) should invest some time in learning how to reach out to people without insulting them for not seeing things the way you think they should.

    Perhaps this problem is why your company's "idea" has languished for so many years due to a lack of funding?

    I know for a fact that Retti was paying the tuition and living expenses for at least a half dozen college students who had no means of attending college without his help.

    From the article:

    While throwing around nearly baseless legal threats, Solaroad might want to be a bit more careful with its careless shouts of "infringement." One of its "future products" is SolarFilm:

    SolarFilm is a sprayable nano-based solar technology that creates energy by using heat, light, and magnetics. It's unique formulation of photovoltaic (PV) and thermionic chemical compositions make it one of the most advanced solar technologies ever created. SolarFilm is durable, efficient, and extremely versatile. It can be easily applied to a variety of surfaces, such as roadways, shingles, siding, vehicle paints and much more.

    This bears quite a resemblance to SolaRoad, another solar-generation-via-roadway-application product developed by Dutch company TNO.


    It looks as if your company plays fast and loose with the truth. Why should anyone believe anything you say?

    Perhaps people who do not know the extensive laws concerning patents should not comment on them.

    First Amendment in the Constitution (free speech in case you are unfamiliar with it) says we are as free to speculate
    about patents and your company's motivation in bullying a student as you are free to continue spewing your apparent nonsensical responses.

    In closing I would refer you to the "Streisand Effect", which I suspect is beginning to envelop your company. You and the CEO should really stop digging now.

     

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  157.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 1:01am

    Re: Re: Re:

    So wait... now when someone discovers something they shouldn't expect to get rewarded for it?

    The 'discoverer' is usually some one who put the final piece of the puzzle in place. When they claim a patent they are claiming the rewards for themselves, where in practice many more people contributed to the discovery.

     

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  158.  
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    Ronit, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 1:38am

    Re:

    LOL. Well said, Arsik.

     

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  159.  
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    That One Guy (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 1:39am

    Re: Re: Independent Invention

    Funnily(though not in the 'ha ha' sense)enough, independent inventors like her are held liable for more if it can proven or even indicated that they knew about the 'original' patent, so the system as it stands actually rewards ignorance.

     

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  160.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 1:51am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    But of course they end up hoarding the ideas anyway through monopoly. What's the point of knowing the details of an invention if you're not allowed to do anything with it?

     

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  161.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 1:51am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    But of course they end up hoarding the ideas anyway through monopoly. What's the point of knowing the details of an invention if you're not allowed to do anything with it?

     

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  162.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 1:53am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    accidental double post, derp wut? :(

     

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  163.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 2:26am

    Re: Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    You couldn't get funding, so your idea was worthless.

    PS.
    I am the person you are attacking, but my IP address has probably changed giving a different snowflake.

     

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  164.  
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    Sonja (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 2:46am

    Re: Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    Sometimes people focus too much on trying to get funding instead of innovating. If your technology is not impressive enough to get funding maybe the approach is wrong? Either not enough information to get the funding is provided or for some or other reason the funders feel its not what they want to fund. I am trying to understand the dynamics as I am in a similar situation with regards to funding a product.

     

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  165.  
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    btrussell (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 3:15am

    Re: Re:

    Are you snuffing that shit too? You sound as crazy as he looks.

     

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  166.  
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    WysiWyg (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 3:27am

    Re: Re: Re:

    But merely making a public offering could mean that you get a couple of seconds in the limelight, especially if you can say that you have been working on the same thing for a long time.

     

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  167.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 3:31am

    Just think there is a company out there that actually has a patent on rounded corners. It's so complex that nobody else would have ever came up with it.

     

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  168.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 3:40am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So if a child is a little brighter or in the public spotlight a little more, if you don't kick their ass they become instant problem kids? You're just going to assume your child is responsible, all the time?

    If this is the attitude you take with kids I fear for your children, I really do. Why not do what the Greeks did and leave your child for the wolves to see if it's worth keeping alive?

     

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  169.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 3:41am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Would Ms. Khare want people attacking Mr. Retti? That's not the question worth answering here. Since you seem so insistent on making sure that Ms. Khare is responsible for somehow messing up, why are you so insistent that Mr. Retti isn't responsible for his poorly worded statements?

     

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  170.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 4:07am

    Re: Re: Re:

    >So wait... now when someone discovers something they shouldn't expect to get rewarded for it? It's whomever has the most resources, or richest backers wins?

    Take a moment to think about what you've written.

    Are you seriously saying that Ms. Khare who separately did her own research before being noticed by Intel is the one with the most resources and richest backers?

    And you wonder why no one here is taking you seriously.

     

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  171.  
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    Sonja (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 4:10am

    Re: Independent Invention

    Thank you for the responses. I find it a bit disheartening though. One should be able to use an independent invention defense.

     

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  172.  
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    The Real Michael, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 5:08am

    Re: Corporations and the people they are made of

    If this is how we treat our most gifted and talented youth, other enterprising nations will surely seize the opportunity to make them lucrative job offers and our future will be greatly compromised as a result.

     

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  173.  
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    Greevar (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 6:45am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Ownership culture.

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

    When a privileged minority controls all of the resources and the means to production we need to live, you are property. The only choice you have is which owner you work for. They own your labor because they have the power to keep you from accessing those resources if you refuse to participate in their system. The only other option for those that want to be free, is to live in the wild.

    Slavery isn't strictly defined as violent control over another person. Deceit and misdirection can just as easily enslave a person. When you are forced by violent means to labor for another, you know you are enslaved. But when you are born into a system where you must labor for the means to live and are exploited by the owners through debt, fear, and ignorance, you are just as enslaved as if they slapped shackles on your wrists. The only difference is, that you don't see your cage. You don't see your master putting the boot down on you.

    Capitalism is a form of slavery just as feudalism was slavery. The kings (owners of the land and means of production) have vassals (CEO's) that are stewards of the king's property and they use lords (managers) to coordinate the serfs (wager earners) who trade their labor to enrich everyone up the chain for the meager means to live. The serfs could not rise above their station and this lead people to seeing such a system as nothing more than slavery.

    Today, capitalism operates on same principles, expect for one difference. The serfs can rise to higher economic status, but everything else stays the same. The king still owns the land and means to production and you still work for managers and CEO's that exploit your labor to make them and their bosses rich. People are falsely lead to believe they are free because of that little idea that they can rise from a serf to a king. However, this almost never happens and it certainly can't happen for everyone. If everyone was king, nobody would be. So they replaced socioeconomic destiny with a battle to be the next king. Keep the people distracted with fighting each other over who gets to be king and nobody notices that they are being used as chattel to keep the current kings in the lap of luxury.

    I don't believe anyone owes me a living. I'm not advocating that others should give their labor up so that I don't have to, that would be contradictory to my goals. No, what I want is people to be self-reliant and have access to the means of production so that they can provide for themselves the goods they require to live. They should have the freedom to work because they choose to and not because of a mortgage, loans, and bills are compelling them to do so. We are a very technologically advanced society and we could devise a way for people to produce their own goods with very little time and labor put in (automation).

    This is good because right now, a lot of human potential is wasted on daily toil to maintain the minimum of existence. When people are applying the majority of their labor to food and shelter, they can't invest it into the science, technology, art, philosophy, academia, and exploration. In other words, they can't participate in the advancement of humanity because they're too busy trying to stay fed and sheltered. This is the 21st century, we shouldn't still be struggling to feed and cloth ourselves. We should be free to pursue higher goals.

     

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  174.  
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    Greevar (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 7:12am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Nope, wrong. There is no such thing as intellectual property. There is no language in the US legal code that defines ephemeral things as property. There are only temporary monopolies on the distribution and sale of art and inventions. So I suggest you try again and stop pretending that you know more than a site frequented by lawyers, economists, and tech experts that will tell you the same. There are regulars here that could cite actual legal code so fast, it would make your head spin. I'm just a lay man, but even I know you're full of it.

     

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  175.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 8:39am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ahhhh... the 2007 application is not dead -- a new application (serial # 13/673,595) was filed on the last possible day claiming priority benefit to the (abandoned) serial # 11/498,759.

    This latest filing (the 11/498,759 ) may have been filed with a non-publication, which would explain the lack of PAIR data on line.

     

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  176.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 9:11am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    Sometimes people focus too much on trying to get funding instead of innovating.


    This is absolutely true. In many cases, external funding is unnecessary, although it does make things more comfortable and convenient. In many other cases, it's actively damaging to innovation: if money is lubricant, applying too much just makes things gooey, sticky, and more painful. It sounds counterintuitive, but it's true.

    I am in a similar situation with regards to funding a product.


    One thing that is often done wrong is to put a dollar sign on everything and say "I need this much to start". For example, no business needs money itself. It needs things and services -- and often those things and services can be had at no cost as a form of investment by the providers. It's pretty common, for example, for printers to do print jobs for business on terms or even in exchange for direct investment in the form of stock.

    So, list your needs, see what you can do without (be ruthless), see what you can get "donated" from suppliers, arrange the timing of your roll-out to spread costs across a larger period of time, and you might be surprised how little cash you end up needing.

     

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  177.  
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    Bengie, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 10:18am

    Re: Re: Re:

    There is an "obviousness" clause. Non-unique means it's obvious. They just forget about that.

     

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  178.  
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    Steven Starr, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 10:27am

    Re: Re: Solar road

    Actually lots of roads in citys/towns, ... that can afford it are made of ground up recycled glass. They are more durable than asphalt and have better traction than concrete. Glass is actually one of the best materials to use to pave roads.

     

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  179.  
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    That One Guy (profile), Jun 4th, 2013 @ 11:09am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    If that doesn't scream 'petty desperation' I don't know what does.

    'We can't figure out how to make this work or present it in a manner that people want to buy it, but we'll be damned if anyone else gets a crack at trying!'

     

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  180.  
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    W. Anderson, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 1:17pm

    software patents in USA (sic)

    One of the reasons the technology organizations with which I am working to bring modern technology to the Caribbean area countries is that so much software that is patented in USA by patent trolls for extortion of technology users, has very direct and verifiable recorded history in"prior art", in many cases decades before the patent holder of similar technology even existed.

    The fate of this creative 18 year old in California is there symptomatic of a future when draconian and greedy US companies will completely discourage any technology creativity, even that based on non-patented concepts (sic) and places like China, India, Brazil and even arch enemies like Iran will surpass the USA in imaginativeness and productivity with technology.

    However I would suspect that the patent hoards here will even try crush and or gain control of virgin software technology innovation invented in the rest of the world.

     

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  181.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 7:21pm

    Re: Their patents applications are dead anyway...

    On the one that is abandoned they filed a continuation which means it is still alive. They can file as many continuations as they wish (till there patent term is used up). On the second one the first 123 claims were restricted meaning they were not examined because they were deemed a separate invention from the other three claims. While they were finally rejected they need only filed an RCE or continuation.

     

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  182.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 7:29pm

    Re: Re: Addressing the matter at hand.

    they filed a continuation during the copendency of the application before abandonment. it is still alive.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  183.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 4th, 2013 @ 10:02pm

    Re: Re: Their patents applications are dead anyway...

    It's not clear it's a continuation (usually that would be an RCE) so maybe it's a CIP. No PAIR yet, which would also point to a CIP, unless they declined all FornFile.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  184.  
    icon
    Niall (profile), Jun 5th, 2013 @ 5:34am

    Re:

    I just love the comment from one of the commenters:

    "M. Sullivan
    11:05 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

    Looks like he was trying to sniff up his whole supply! Or, is he just a member of the Addams family?"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  185.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 5th, 2013 @ 2:26pm

    Isn't it amazing when the sock puppets were finally sent back to their dresser drawer, the opprobrium ceased.

    From the South Park kids: "I think we learned something here today."

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  186.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 5th, 2013 @ 6:16pm

    ... and now she (Eesha Khare) is the darling of the NBC nightly news.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  187.  
    identicon
    gdp, Jun 9th, 2013 @ 9:07pm

    Any connection to IV?

    Obvious question: Is this "Solaroad Technologies, LLC" just yet another example of the infinite number of shell-companies owned by the notorious patent trolls at "Intellectual Ventures"?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  188.  
    icon
    Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), Jun 10th, 2013 @ 8:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Solar road

    You have one absolute constraint you are required to work under: no causing massive gridlock.
    Really? I suppose the US may be different but in the UK causing massive gridlock seems to be a primary function of roadworks.

    Indeed in urban areas most road alterations seem to be aimed specifically at slowing, disrupting or discouraging traffic from it's already stately crawl and often perfectly fine roads are dug up to accomplish this. We might at least get some power generation while they're at it...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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