Comcast: We Won't Terminate Your Account Under Six Strikes; We'll Just Block Every Single Website

from the well,-there's-that dept

The various ways in which the big ISPs would implement their version of the "six strikes" Copyright Alert System had mostly been leaked over the past few months, but there had been nothing coming out of Comcast. AT&T planned to block "frequently visited websites" after the fourth strike. Verizon planned to throttle speeds so low that it would drive users crazy. It looks like Comcast is doing something similar to Time Warner, which means that after four accusations (not convictions, not proof of guilt, just accusations), anyone using the account of someone who hits that strike will have all of their browsing hijacked and sent to a landing page that they cannot get around. Oddly, for reasons that don't make much sense, the page that TorrentFreak links to on Comcast's site disappeared. If I go to it, I get a 404 not found. But if I do a search on the keyword "mitigation," it still shows up in the index. Then I click, and the page is still gone. Either way, while it's technically true that they're not "cutting off" people, they are clearly cutting them off from the wider web.
"If a consumer fails to respond to several Copyright Alerts, Comcast will place a persistent alert in any web browser under that account until the account holder contacts Comcast's Customer Security Assurance professionals to discuss and help resolve the matter,"
No information is given on what it means to "resolve the matter." It's hardly a surprise that Comcast would choose the most extreme option, considering that it owns NBC Universal, whose execs supposedly drove much of the discussion around the CAS system. In the meantime, are we still supposed to believe, as per the cheery video that the Center for Copyright Information put out, that this is all for the benefit of ISP users?


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  •  
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    silverscarcat (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 5:45am

    So...

    To all the people who think the Six Strikes Program is a good idea...

    do you still think that or are you willing to admit that you were...

    Dr. Cox, if you would...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQxhOYqLPdY

     

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    Mark Harrill (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 6:13am

    A Perfect Answer for ISPs...

    This answer from Comcast is the perfect wet dream of executives at the big ISPs: "Continue to pay us money for a service you can't use or in a degraded state so we don't need to upgrade anything ever. Well except for the gold plating on my yacht..."

     

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      dev, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:07am

      Re: A Perfect Answer for ISPs...

      Very clever, now they can charge us a fee if we request closing the account.

       

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        Anon, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:46am

        Re: Re: A Perfect Answer for ISPs...

        I know several people who have had good results by calling the BBB. Amazing how fast a business will fix a customer issue when you light a fire under them.

         

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          John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:32am

          Re: Re: Re: A Perfect Answer for ISPs...

          That only works in markets where there's competition.

           

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            PRMan, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:24am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: A Perfect Answer for ISPs...

            In this case, you might try the FCC. If they are legitimately blocking you without cause, it will probably be a big issue.

             

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              Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:25am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Perfect Answer for ISPs...

              In this case, you might try the FCC. If they are legitimately blocking you without cause, it will probably be a big issue.

              It might if the FCC had jurisdiction.

               

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                nasch (profile), Mar 3rd, 2013 @ 3:51pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Perfect Answer for ISPs...

                It might if the FCC had jurisdiction.

                The Federal Communications Commission doesn't have jurisdiction over ISPs?

                "The Federal Communications Commission regulates interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and U.S. territories."

                That sounds like jurisdiction to me.

                 

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    Ninja (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 6:28am

    I'd be using a VPN in the US by now.

    In any case I think we should start a broad campaign to spoof every and single US based IP and use them to download very popular infringing files =)

    Also, all Americans should get an open wireless connection up and running and sue the ISPs requiring them to present evidence that anyone in the household was the real infringers.

    Hopefully Americans will cause such a huge headache to the ISPs that the Govt will be forced to acknowledge these six strikes agreements are both illegal and unconstitutional.

    Let the mayhem begin!

     

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      Ninja (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 6:42am

      Re:

      Also, is Comcast redirect done at DNS lvl or at the IP lvl? If DNS then simply using OpenDNS solves the issue.

       

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        EricT (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:21am

        Re: Re:

        It sounds like a JavaScript injection and DPI, which I would wonder about the legality of in general. This could break safe harbor provisions and various wire tapping laws. They are currently employing that with Constant Guard.
        If they were smart they would simply use a walled garden approach, which basically sends all traffic to a specific web page like a cafe internet sign-up.

         

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:32am

          Re: Re: Re:

          "It sounds like a JavaScript injection and DPI, which I would wonder about the legality of in general. This could break safe harbor provisions and various wire tapping laws. They are currently employing that with Constant Guard."

          It is totally illegal. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act strictly forbids that practice.


          "If they were smart they would simply use a walled garden approach, which basically sends all traffic to a specific web page like a cafe internet sign-up."

          Let us pray they didn't learn the same lesson that AOL once did way back in 1995....

           

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:37am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Dude, the FBI can't break the wiretapping laws by hacking into and injecting tracking malware into smartphones! What the hell makes you think that Comcast will ever get into trouble for this?

           

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:50am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            They'd have to pass a law to give them immunity, and given our current congress passing any law is impossible.

             

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            Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:40am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            The FBI is a government organization...The Comcast and the MPAA and IRAA are private organizations. The whole thing is a contractual agreement to give people six warnings before they are educated about pirating. The way Comcast is implementing the process is completely illegal.

            At least the FBI uses due process. The FBI and DOJ are separate competing agencies. The FBI actually bargained with Aaron Swartz when he was first caught and during the interrogation had aggreed with Swartz that the information he was downloading from JSTR was in fact public domain. They dropped the charges. The same cannot be said of the DOJ.

            If I were accused committing computer fraud by the Department of Justice I would pray that if or when I got caught, it would be an FBI field agent and not some bureaucratic asshole attorney general arresting me on faulty claims.

             

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              nasch (profile), Mar 3rd, 2013 @ 3:55pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              At least the FBI uses due process.

              Was it the FBI that used post-it notes to get info on subscribers from the phone companies, or was that someone else?

               

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                Wally (profile), Mar 3rd, 2013 @ 5:09pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Investigation methods are not due process. Due process in executive law enforcement is proper handling of accusations, arrests, interrogations, and investigations. The method of investigation using post-it notes typically applies to tracing nodes and criminal psychology profiling. Aaron Swartz had his charges dropped by the FBI and the DOJ ordered the US Secret Service to go after him in stead. The FBI handles things like corruption, embezzlement, internal affairs, ATF and DEA arrests and so on. The DOJ and Secret Service handle NSA crap and computer fraud.

                 

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                  nasch (profile), Mar 4th, 2013 @ 6:41am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Investigation methods are not due process. Due process in executive law enforcement is proper handling of accusations, arrests, interrogations, and investigations.

                  Make up your mind so I know whether to disagree with you.

                   

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                    Wally (profile), Mar 4th, 2013 @ 8:43am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    The FBI properly handles investigations, the post-it notes are some times used for profiling ad mapping, other times they are used because of the budget constraints...the prosecution (legislative branch) takes that information and tries to prove you are guilty with it. The court system evaluates the gathered evidence and through determination of your fellow peers (a jury) the verdict is decided (Judaical branch).

                    They are all separate branches of government. The FBI and all law enforcement pertaining to arrests and information gathering is a part of the executive branch of government. This is supposed to make sure that not one of the branches holds more power over the other. I guess you could call it a triumvirate republic democratic (not the party) government.

                     

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                      nasch (profile), Mar 4th, 2013 @ 10:00am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      the prosecution (legislative branch)

                      Prosecutors are executive branch, Wally. And you didn't address my question: are you claiming due process includes investigations, or that it doesn't?

                       

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        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:58am

        Re: Re:

        That is a good question.
        I use a program to rotate through openNIC, Blockaid, OpenDNS ect.

        Fuck censorship in the A.

         

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        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:18am

        Re: Re:

        It will probably be just be a redirect for all traffic on port 80 at the switch. As they have always done they are going to go after the low hanging fruit. People who are smart enough to use a VPN or SSH tunnel won't likely be affected at least for a while.

         

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          John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:35am

          Re: Re: Re:

          This is likely the way Comcast is doing it -- at least, this is the way they do it when you forget to pay your bill. All port 80 and DNS traffic is redirected to their servers, and all other traffic is blocked so you can't use a VPN or SSH tunnel.

           

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:53am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Since they state that they are not cutting you off, and given the history with Comcast and the Botnet notification system. I would lead to believe they are using the same. Full description of the system here: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6108

            While they state that they are not inspecting packet content, they are mangling packets in order to inject the javascript into session layer, and this IMHO is highjacking still at an OSI level.

             

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              Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:41am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Which is completely illegal.

               

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                nasch (profile), Mar 3rd, 2013 @ 3:56pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Which is completely illegal.

                What if your contract with them indicates that they can do this whenever they want? Even if it's illegal, that's academic. They are a large corporation doing something the government approves of. They would never get prosecuted for it.

                 

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                  Wally (profile), Mar 3rd, 2013 @ 5:13pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Breach of contract legality is a civil matter. Since they are charging you $35 to get reconnected, it could be considered small claims court. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act clearly states that arbitration or not, in computer fraud and abuse cases, second and third parties with the first of the plaintiff involved can be punished.

                   

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                  Wally (profile), Mar 3rd, 2013 @ 5:14pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Six Strike may be government approved, but the method Comcast is going to use, is in fact illegal.

                   

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:11am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            I doubt for this that they will block all other traffic, at least until you get a bunch of notices with no response. However, if you are using a VPN or SSH tunnel you probably won't get notices from them at all.

             

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:38am

          Re: Re: Re:

          So this will not affect https traffic? Or would they just reset any connections on port 443?

           

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:30am

      Re:

      And people wonder why I spend 18 bucks a month for dedicated server overseas (100mb up and down, latency isn't awful all things considered). That's where all of the magic happens and I tunnel if I'm looking up anything that I wouldn't want someone in the government to know I'm looking at.

      In fact, I'm tunneled into it now. I'm going to skew the stats for the site because I am viewing from the US but it looks like it is coming from somewhere else.

       

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      The Infamous Joe (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:36am

      Re:

      Is there a penalty for submitting false reports? Is the system automated?

      Gee, it would be a shame if some anonymous group started submitting thousands of accusations at randomly chosen IP addresses, thus shooting the false positive ratio through the roof, and showing what a horrible, expensive, badly implemented idea this is. Why, in that event, you wouldn't be able to know what was a "real" accusation, and what was a false one, and the whole system would collapse.

      It would be just horrible, I say.

       

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        Anonymous Howard (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 12:04am

        Re: Re:

        When Ubisoft implemented their always-online drm, "some anonymous group" DDoS-ed its authentication servers. Legitimate users couldn't play, while those who pirated could. Then ubisoft removed AO drm from their products.

        The conclusion is that the above solution would probably work, and should be employed!

         

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        nasch (profile), Mar 3rd, 2013 @ 3:59pm

        Re: Re:

        Gee, it would be a shame if some anonymous group started submitting thousands of accusations at randomly chosen IP addresses, thus shooting the false positive ratio through the roof, and showing what a horrible, expensive, badly implemented idea this is.

        It would be less of a shame if they sent thousands of accusations against the home accounts of executives of the ISPs and media companies. And posted the accusation messages publicly somewhere so the ISPs couldn't pretend they weren't happening. If that didn't work, then maybe proceed to millions of accusations against everybody.

         

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      btr1701 (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:37am

      Re:

      > the Govt will be forced to acknowledge these
      > six strikes agreements are both illegal and
      > unconstitutional.

      This six-strike things may be a bad idea in a lot of ways, but there's nothing either illegal or unconstitional about them.

      You're contracting with a private party (ISP) and your sole remedy if you don't like the terms of the contract is to refuse to do business with them.

       

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        Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:46am

        Re: Re:

        Time Warner Cable will only send you to a web page of theirs to watch a video, then when it is confirmed you watched it, they send you on your way.

        Comcast on the other hand will be using a malicious code. Any amount of hacking at the OSI level is illegal and by tapping into that realm, the contract with the ISP becomes null and void.

         

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          nasch (profile), Mar 3rd, 2013 @ 4:19pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Any amount of hacking at the OSI level is illegal and by tapping into that realm, the contract with the ISP becomes null and void.

          Do you have a reference for that?

           

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            PaulT (profile), Mar 4th, 2013 @ 1:19am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Given that he just referred to "the OSI level", apparently not realising that there's 7 OSI layers that cover everything from physical hardware to application software, I'd guess not.

             

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              Wally (profile), Mar 4th, 2013 @ 5:23am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Or wasn't aware and was keying off of what I saw ;-)

               

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                PaulT (profile), Mar 4th, 2013 @ 6:15am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                You really need to stop using terms you don't fully understand in that case, as you always seem to get caught out.

                There's only one other mention of OSI in this thread by anyone other than yourself, which uses the term correctly (he refers specifically to the session layer just before mentioning OSI, indicating which part he was talking about). You seem to have then not only repeated the term without understanding what it's referring to, but used that term to make claims that are clearly false to anyone with the correct knowledge.

                You're stated things like "Any amount of hacking at the OSI level is illegal" and "The only way one could permanently redirect traffic is if one injected code at the OSI level.", which are not only nonsense but are asserting a certainty that you obviously don't have. If you're going to make claims, be prepared to back them up, and definitely make sure you understand the words you're using to make those claims.

                It's great that you're open to correction when you're caught out at this kind of thing, but why keep doing it? To anyone who understands what the terms actually mean, you're clearly talking rubbish, and for those who don't you're just confusing the issue. If you see a term you don't fully understand, either learn what it means or don't use it to form arguments of your own.

                I see someone's already told you what OSI actually refers to, but it is a really basic theoretical concept to anyone who's studied networking, and it forms the basis of everything from Cisco and COMPTIA's entry-level networking exams onwards. You can't study networking with at least coming across these concepts, and every exam I've ever sat on the subject expects you to be able to name the layers from memory, at the very least. Given that you didn't recognise this idea from its name, you should be making assertions while using the term.

                 

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                  nasch (profile), Mar 4th, 2013 @ 7:55am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  If you see a term you don't fully understand, either learn what it means or don't use it to form arguments of your own.

                  This is excellent advice.

                   

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          btr1701 (profile), Mar 4th, 2013 @ 9:28am

          Re: Re: Re:

          > Comcast on the other hand will be using
          > a malicious code. Any amount of hacking at
          > the OSI level is illegal and by tapping into
          > that realm, the contract with the ISP becomes
          > null and void.

          It's not illegaal if you agree to allow them to do that in your subscriber contract.

          And regardless, whether it's illegal or not, use of such code has nothing to do with the Constitution.

           

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      btrussell (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 4:54pm

      Re:

      "I'd be using a VPN in the US by now."

      How will this help against an accusation?

      Serious question.

       

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    Psyga Sanichigo (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:41am

    Wow, this stupid. Is there a corporate version of the Death Note, where you write the name of the company you wish to kill and they just go bankrupt within an hour?

     

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:42am

    Mike Masnick just hates it when copyright law is enforced.

     

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      identicon
      bob, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:46am

      Re:

      Exactly. If some moron can't stop torrenting after 5 notices, they deserve to be cut off from the web.

       

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        BeaverJuicer (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:50am

        Re: Re:

        Exactly. If some moron can't look up VPN or Proxy after 5 notices, they deserve to be cut off from the web.

         

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:34am

          Re: Re: Re:

          It is a Java injection of code and uses exploits therein. VPN and proxies will not help at all. The injection can happen when they update the firmware of their modems.

           

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            John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:58am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            A VPN would certainly help. Nobody can inject anything into a datastream they can't read.

             

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              out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:11am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              @"Nobody can inject anything into a datastream they can't read." -- You're ignoring that an ISP man-in-the-middle MAY WELL HAVE THE KEY. It's privy to ALL your traffic, so could just catch it on initialization or deduce it. Admittedly, both esp latter might take some time, but they likely have tap gadgets designed for the purpose.

              You can no longer trust your ISP as neutral man-in-the-middle. You clearly haven't run through the possibilities that opens up!

               

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                saulgoode (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:35am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                The ISP would need to have three separate private keys: the user's, the VPN's, and the certificate authority's of the VPN. These are called private because they are never shared -- they are never sent through the ISP so there is no way for the ISP to ever "catch" them.

                I'd recommend that you read up on TLS and VPN. VPN is designed precisely to avoid man-in-the-middle vulnerabilities, whether that "man" is a neighbor sniffing your wireless, a hotel access point, or a nefarious ISP.

                 

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                John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:38pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                You're ignoring that an ISP man-in-the-middle MAY WELL HAVE THE KEY. It's privy to ALL your traffic, so could just catch it on initialization or deduce it.


                It doesn't work that way. For them to do a MITM attack, they'd have to forge the credentials of your VPN provider (possible, but very difficult and easy to get caught at). Simply listening in on the communication does not reveal the keys to them. Deducing the key would take far more resources than even a Comcast would be willing to throw at a single person.

                You can no longer trust your ISP as neutral man-in-the-middle.


                You never could, so that's not new.


                You clearly haven't run through the possibilities that opens up!


                This is my business. I think about attack vectors every single day. I'll be the first to say that I haven't thought of every possible vector -- I'd be a very wealthy man if I could do that -- but the ideas you're suggesting so far are well-known and obvious. And also impractical at best and impossible at worst. ("Impractical" means "expensive", which means you'd have to be far more interesting than a pirate for them to do it.)

                 

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                  Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:06pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  Does this mean I have a future in another field???

                   

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                    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:33pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Does this mean I have a future in another field???,/i>

                    Well, you're pretty successful as a verbal punching bag. Also, if Masnick ever needs a court jester, he'd be crazy not to bring you aboard (though he doesn't really believe in paying people. Otherwise, check Craigslist and try to find a village looking to replace its idiot. You may even want to stretch your abilities and put in an application to WalMart as a greeter, but that'd be a real reach. Good luck!!

                     

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                      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 4:58pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      "Does this mean I have a future in another field???,/i>"

                      You forgot to use the "Left Caret" symbol "

                       

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                        Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 5:02pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        Oh i just made an observation....I will correct my intended retort now...


                        "Does this mean I have a future in another field???,/i>"


                        You forgot to use the "Left Caret" symbol on the end of your HTML hash tag there oh technologically superior one...

                         

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                          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 5:08pm

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          Actually, technologically-inferior one; I missed the cap key- typing a comma instead. But thanks for another minor reminder of how consistently inaccurate your are.

                           

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                The Real Michael, Mar 1st, 2013 @ 7:39am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Isn't it grand how governments give so much power to these corporate behemoths, at the expense of the people? What else would they like to take away from us? What's the next casualty on this ongoing assault on our civil liberties? Freedom of speech? The Second Amendment? The right to privacy? The right to own something? Heck, we're practically being told what we're allowed to say or do on the internet. At this rate, why not just take everything away from us, turn us into slaves and then kill us?

                 

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              btrussell (profile), Mar 2nd, 2013 @ 5:11pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              So, slow down your speed, forever, using a proxy, to avoid a temporary restriction?

              I fail to see how this stops accusations. Unless you assume they are going to play fair. Not a bet I would take.

              I don't recall "I was using a VPN, so it is impossible for you to have my IP address" being one of the allowed defenses to tick in the check boxes.

               

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:09am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            John is correct. VPNs encrypt traffic leaving the computer, so it's impossible to inject plain text into an encrypted tcp/udp stream. Even an SSL website would be encrypted and thus remove the issue unless they hack a Man in The Middle attack which should display on the browser as an invalid certificate.

             

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              out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:23am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              @ "display on the browser as an invalid certificate"

              HA! I've been getting those when on The Internet Archive! Don't know that it's significant (because I modified the certs area after some DNS scare and don't recall exactly), but IS new of late to get such notices.

              But see my other response for your notion that ISP can't look into what you believe is encrypted! MAN.IN.THE.MIDDLE.

               

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                Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:38pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                I saw your other reply and quickly deduced that you have no idea what the hell you are talking about, of course that never stopped you before.

                 

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                Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 6:29pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                "But see my other response for your notion that ISP can't look into what you believe is encrypted! MAN.IN.THE.MIDDLE."

                The man in the middle can only see garbage. That's the magic of encryption.

                 

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            Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:04am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            There you go again Wally, talking about stuff you don't understand.

            Java really has nothing to do with modem firmware.

            You can't successfully inject something into a VPN session unless you can perform a man in the middle attack, which to the best of my knowledge has never happened in the wild.

            The most likely course of action is a simple DNS redirect. But that won't work if you don't use their DNS and it won't work for direct access by IP. They could use java injection, but that will not work for all forms of traffic.

            If they are really serious they will just set DHCP to assign you to a private address, that their firewall will block from wider access, AND setup DNS redirect which is what I would do, because it would be almost impossible to get around from the end device and would block all traffic, even direct IP and VPN.

            From a news story about this:
            "Comcast did not elaborate on how the browser hijack was being accomplished. If it is a simple DNS redirect, switching to a third-party DNS server (like Google or OpenDNS) would bypass it. If the ISP is somehow inserting JavaScript to take over the browser, blocking scripts could set things straight. If there is a way, the internet will find it."
            Please cite a definitive source that shows they are using "Java Injection".

            Also go ahead and cite information on how "The injection can happen when they update the firmware of their modems.".

             

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              Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:17am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              There you go again Wally, talking about stuff you don't understand.

              Great summary of his life!!

               

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              out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:18am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              @ "If it is a simple DNS redirect, switching to a third-party DNS server (like Google or OpenDNS) would bypass it." -- No, it wouldn't! The ISP is your gateway to DNS. Not a bit gets to the root servers that the ISP doesn't want to. They clearly have gadgets that provide for blocking their own intranet pretty much as desired.

              And doesn't have to be either java or javascript. What the heck is it with you people who don't see that the ISP, whenever your computer sends ANY packet (browser, for HTML), just makes up a page of whatever it wants, then sends it to you and it's displayed? ... Guess you're all only on VPN, which isn't necessarily the major problem.

               

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                Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:43am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                OOTB, Sure they could block all traffic, but then it isn't a DNS Redirect is it? (By the way that was a quote from an article not my words).

                I never said it had to be java or javascript, that wouldn't be my choice at all.

                The method used depends on what they are trying to accomplish. DNS Redirects are the easiest for them to use, in fact they are used now for new accounts to accept TOS... but there is an arsenal of way to accomplish what they want. However, since they likely aren't going after people with a great deal of knowledge about how networking works and since they already utilize DNS redirects it would seem to be a logical choice.
                " What the heck is it with you people who don't see that the ISP, whenever your computer sends ANY packet (browser, for HTML), just makes up a page of whatever it wants, then sends it to you and it's displayed?"
                I do understand what is technically possible with various methods, that was not the point of the reply. The speculation (and that is all anyone really has at this point that I am aware of) is over what method(s) they will choose to use.

                And yes I do have several VPNs setup between my home and various work sites.

                 

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                  Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:22am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  I disagree. When you control the switch, the switch is the easiest for you to use and it's what most administrators use. It has nothing to do with DNS (although it looks like it does to someone who doesn't know the difference). They don't change the DNS so that you get directed somewhere else. They just reroute all requests on the given port at the switch. The problem with using DNS to do this is that it is cached so when they want to re-enable normal functionality, you have to wait for the cache to expire for the changes to take effect completely.

                   

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                    Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:01pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    I agree with what you are saying (even use it myself for various reasons).

                    Perhaps Comcast has changed, but when Comcast bought out our local cable company years ago and I was forced into their service I had no problems for about 6 months. When I had a problem and called for support they then got all kinds of upset because I didn't have a 'standard configuration' and I had not accepted their on-line TOS...

                    When I reconfigured to their specs, DNS Redirect. Configure to my specs, no redirect and the internet just works. In that case they were using DNS redirects. This is why I said it would be easiest for them, because it certainly appeared to be what was in use by them when I had issues years ago. Adding a different redirect to their control system would be easy, setting up a new control system - hard.

                    DNS redirects can be quite effective, you just return extremely short TTL (Time to Live). Of course a cache can be configured to ignore the TTL but that is a separate issue.

                     

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                      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:11pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Time Warner allows you to connect to what ever DNS you wish to use :-)

                       

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                        Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:35pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        Comcast allows it, they just got pissy with me because my existing configuration meant I used their connection without ever accepting their TOS (I still haven't).

                        Fortunately, (and this is the only good thing I have to say about Comcast) they do a good job of maintaining their network and outages are rare. so I don't have to call them to report problems. Which is good because they would just get all pissed off at my configuration again.

                         

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                          John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:48pm

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                          Comcast allows it, they just got pissy with me because my existing configuration meant I used their connection without ever accepting their TOS (I still haven't).


                          I also run a highly nonstandard configuration, and have never accepted their online TOS. But Comcast never said anything to me about it, and their install techs have never given me grief when connecting the service. When I make the appointment, I tell them to bring their own laptop to configure it with, as I don't run any Windows machines that they can run their install software on.

                           

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                            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:59pm

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                            They never touched my systems either. I told them just to drop off the equipment. I'd hook it all up.

                             

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                      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:57pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Their support people are some of the most incompetent people I a have seen in the industry. Most of them have absolutely no clue what they are doing. They read from a script. Here in Houston a few years ago Comcast took over all of the Time Warner accounts. I had ago given up on relying on DHCP to provide me with DNS Resolvers, so I had hard coded them into every system I had. One day I came home and my wife told me the Internet wasn't working and when I sat down to troubleshoot it, I quickly realized that it was a DNS issue. So I called their support people to let them know their some of their resolvers were not working and offered to provide the IP's of the resolvers I was using so they could have their Network Operations investigate the issue. I also asked if they could provide me with a different set of resolvers to use. All they wanted to was walk me through a bunch of Windows troubleshooting steps which of course they wanted me to disconnect my router and connect my PC directly to the bridge. I asked to speak to a Level 2. The person transferred me to back into their queue and eventually I got another equally clueless Level 1 tech and the same dance started over again. Eventually the resolvers I was using started working again so I stopped wasting my time on the phone with them. A few days later they called me out of the blue during dinnertime to ask if I was having any trouble (not that there was any issue happening at that moment) to see if they could help because of the transition. I got angry or rather angrier. I finally decided to enable recursive DNS requests on my web server and add it to my boxes so I wouldn't have to deal with this again. However I missed one laptop and a few months later it happened again but only on that laptop. This time I tried their chat support hoping that the a chat support tech might have a little more expertise than the phone monkeys. It also allowed me to paste output from a DNS queries (using dig on my Linux VM) directly into the chat to show them what I was talking about. I pasted the command into the chat and the tech asked me what version of Windows I was using. (dig isn't a Windows command.) They then asked me what resolvers I was using. I told them to look at the command because I queried the server specifically in the request. All of a sudden I realized what was happening. Comcast had not taken over Time Warner's resolvers which they were now rejecting the recursive DNS requests from Comcast IPs. I got the new ones and was good to go. However if I had had a competent person the first time I called that had a clue about what DNS Resolvers were, when I offered to give them the IPs they would have realized that I needed different ones and provided me with them. There is a reason their customer service ranks lower than TicketMaster which I have to admit takes talent to achieve.

                       

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                Rich, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:54am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                You don't really understand how computers work, do you?

                 

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                Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:29am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                The VPN connection is on a completely different port. The VPN client causes all requests sent out to be routed through the tunnel so the browser won't get any responses that don't come through the VPN tunnel. So at the switch, there is no http or https traffic for them to redirect. DNS has absolutely nothing to do with it. Even the DNS requests (on port 53) can be routed through the VPN. They can't do anything about it except 1. block the entire connection to the VPN or 2. hijack one of the ends of the tunnel (which would be illegal).

                 

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              Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:55am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              You can't successfully inject something into a VPN session unless you can perform a man in the middle attack, which to the best of my knowledge has never happened in the wild.

              MITM attacks have been around for quite awhile. Check out FireSheep for a simple session highjack. For Comcast since they are using Squid, it's simply "configure –enable-icap-client –enable-ssl" though it will display an error message on any SSL site and for VPNs there is usually a secondary encryption method. (Here's a rather long piece with various SSL VPN issues throughout: http://www.ncp-e.com/fileadmin/pdf/techpapers/Debunking_the_Myths_of_SSL_VPN_Security.pdf)

               

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                Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:37am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Sure MITM has been around, but the article you posted seems to relate to SSL and browser sessions (clientless VPN). Further a certificate error would not indicate a totally successful implementation in my estimation.

                Regardless I am referring to other methods such as IPSEC or L2TP VPNs.

                 

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                  Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:54am

                  True enough. You just stated you've never seen a MITM implemented, so I just wanted to give you a heads up. IMHO though, this would be going way over the top for anyone to actually implement unless 1. they are hackers going for a specific target, or 2. they are inspecting issues on their private network.

                   

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                    Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:17pm

                    Re:

                    My bad, I was not clear in the assertion, what I meant to refer to was IPSEC or L2TP VPNs not SSL. I have seen some theoretical MITM for them, but nothing in the wild.

                    SSL is fairly simple to MITM if your in the right spot on the network (obviously the ISP would be in that spot).

                     

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              Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:00am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              I think what he is trying to say is that if they use and exploit that inserts the redirect via Java on the client (because it was placed there some time in the past, then a VPN wouldn't help. However, that requires a malware infection of the system which would be a BLATANT CFAA violation. That would be similar to the Sony thing and we all know how that worked out for them.

               

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              John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:43pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              unless you can perform a man in the middle attack, which to the best of my knowledge has never happened in the wild.


              Just for accuracy's sake -- this has happened in the wild (and relatively recently) through the use of forged CA certificates. It's hard to do and rare, but it is possible.

              It's also very easy to detect.

               

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                Mr. Applegate, Mar 1st, 2013 @ 3:23am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                I think I recall the incident you are referring to. Wasn't it in China and didn't it involve SSL?

                I was really thinking more along the lines of IPSEC or L2TP, though admittedly, I did not make that clear, when I said I hadn't heard of an attack in the wild.

                 

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            BeaverJuicer (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 7:27am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            VPN and Proxy use has nothing to do with the redirect. It masks the IP address of the internet usage to begin with, resulting in a total of ZERO strikes against the user.

            Hence, no need to have the injection.

             

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        Machin Shin (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:02am

        Re: Re:

        Yup, so no crying when someone hacks your wifi and downloads a bunch of stuff getting your web cut off.

         

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        Zakida Paul (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:09am

        Re: Re:

        If some moron can't stop posting shite on websites, they deserve to be cut off.

        Bye bye bob.

         

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        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:35am

        Re: Re:

        There are legal uses of torrents. Some college libraries use them to transfer public domain ebooks.

         

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        Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:28pm

        Re: Re:

        You do know there are many valid uses for torrent right?

        Just a few might be downloading open source software such as linux. Blizzard Entertainment uses bittorrent to distribute patches for Diablo III, WOW... bitTorrent is even used to distribute information at Universities. Podcasting is another popular use of BitTorretn.

        None of that content is illegal. BitTorrents just mean that the content is gathered from many sources and that there is less need for a provider to have a big fat pipe to serve content from.

         

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:53am

      Re:

      Wait, I thought this was an "agreement," not law.

       

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      Michael Becker (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:56am

      Re:

      This isn't enforcing copyright. This is guilt by accusation with no due process.

       

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        btr1701 (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:43am

        Re: Re:

        > This isn't enforcing copyright. This is
        > guilt by accusation with no due process.

        Contract law doesn't require due process. If you sign a contract with an ISP which allows them to do these things without due process, it's a valid contract.

         

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          Rikuo (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:13am

          Re: Re: Re:

          At most, btr1701, that would be correct I'd assume if it covered only copyrights the ISP held, so for example, if you sign up with Comcast, you sign a contract saying you agree to whatever system the ISP has that deals with THEIR copyright.
          However, with Six Strikes, there's THREE parties. Before Six Strikes, I had never heard of two people signing a contract where one of them agreed to be judge, jury and executioner if a third person accused the first.
          If I sign a contract with my landlord that states that any damages to his house must come out of my pocket, fine, I can accept that. I'll have seen the contract. However, if Suzy down the road talks to my landlord and asks who lives in House no. 5, (and the landlord gives Suzy my information) then says I'm at fault for damages to her house...the landlord can't just up and say I'm guilty automatically. He's not deputized by the government to act as police. I'd have to be taken to court first, and found guilty before I can be punished.

           

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:00pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          And if all the major ISP get together to make sure the terms of all their contracts are functionally the same in one area what law does that fall under?

           

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            btr1701 (profile), Mar 4th, 2013 @ 9:53am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            > And if all the major ISP get together to make
            > sure the terms of all their contracts are
            > functionally the same in one area what law
            > does that fall under?

            If they actually all get together, then that would be an anti-trust violation. However if they arrive at these policies on their own, it's not a violation of anything.

             

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          Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:09pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          If you sign a contract with an ISP which allows them to do these things without due process, it's a valid contract.

          Just being curious here.

          I really don't remember "signing" (with an actual pen) any contract with my ISP. I did sign off on the installation work order, but I don't remember any mention of the TOS or anything on that.

          Also, what about the occasional updates to the TOS that come in mail with that really, really small type where they unilaterally change the terms on you and say "by continuing to use our service you agree to..." (possibly even received AFTER the date of the change - so you have already been using the service with the new terms). Are those really binding legal contracts even without an actual signature?

           

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          TheLoot (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:55pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Considering I never agreed to this system when I signed up for service, my ISP is breaking it's contract with me.

           

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      Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:01am

      Re:

      Isn't this a voluntary agreement, and not the law?

      If it was the law, it would require due process, which this obviously lacks. If it was the law, it would need to be applied uniformly (not just against residential internet accounts).

       

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        Chosen Reject (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:22am

        Re: Re:

        If it was the law, it would need to be applied uniformly (not just against residential internet accounts).
        I like you. Naive, innocent, starry-eyed and optimistic. Keep that up and someday you just might save yourself from crushing cynicism.

         

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:37am

          Re: Re: Re:

          It is against the law to inject virus code into a base API like Java to redirect your web browser. It is in fact illegal to do this. That is what Comcast is doing. It is using a Java exploit it found to redirect its customers who have "infringed" to an Antipiracy web page. And does not let you browse anywhere else but in their services.

           

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:02am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            It's not Java injection but rather JavaScript injection. There's a big difference.

             

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              Rich, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:56am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Using a different language does not make it a "big difference."

               

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                Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:04am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                However there is a HUGE difference between the two. Java is a full blown application platform running at the file system level through the Java VM. JavaScript is just scripted web code that gets executed within the browser session. JavaScript doesn't have access to the file system directly. Java does.

                 

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                  Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:27pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "However there is a HUGE difference between the two. Java is a full blown application platform running at the file system level through the Java VM."

                  Ok, and please tell me if I am wrong, and I assure you this is out of plain curiosity...Isn't connecting your computer to the internet an execution in general?

                  I thought that could firmware be encoded to have Java VM and a Java Application that triggers an execution of that code when data packets are sent out and be programmed to piggyback on the return ping to whatever website you visited? This is something similar to how an NAT works in a router.

                  Java VM can be encoded as firmware. The best known example I can really think of is a BluRay Player. The firmware is designed to automatically detect a disc. Through certain Boolean operations set by the user of the bluray player to in fact automatically execute code when the disc is entered to start running the disc operations? The menu's on BluRay discs are written in JavaScript. So by entering the disc and having "Auto Play" or whatever the Hell it is...the code on the disc gets executed because data starts streaming through the system.

                   

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                    John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:58pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Isn't connecting your computer to the internet an execution in general?


                    I don't understand this question.

                    I thought that could firmware be encoded to have Java VM and a Java Application that triggers an execution of that code when data packets are sent out and be programmed to piggyback on the return ping to whatever website you visited? This is something similar to how an NAT works in a router


                    This is unclear as well, but I'll take a stab at it.

                    First, yes, the modem is just a computer and can run a Java VM just like anything else. In practice, it doesn't matter, though. Anything the modem can do, though, the ISP can do at their server, so I'm not clear of the relevance.

                    I'm not sure what you mean by "piggyback on the return ping", but that description doesn't seem to fit with how NAT works.

                    As I understand it, you're postulating the injection of Java code into the user's browser. In that case, the VM running the Java must be on your machine, not the modem or anywhere else, as it's your machine that must execute the Java.

                    If you've disabled Java and Javascript (as everyone should), then these attack vectors vanish. It doesn't matter if there's a VM on the modem or not.

                     

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                    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 3:09pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    First of all the only thing Java and JavaScript have in common with each other is 4 letters. Second a bridge or router is a separate device. The firmware running on it cannot execute code on a machine behind it without somehow getting permission purposely setup by the user to allow it which no one would do. So regardless their equipment cannot run code on your machine without you allowing it unless there is a serious security flaw in your system.

                     

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:15am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Hmm, I dunno. I've been late w payment to Comcast before and been temp disco'd so when I try to connect I get sent to one of these pages. And then even after I'm paid up it sits there till I get rid of it.

             

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          Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:53am

          Re: Re: Re:

          I like you. Naive, innocent, starry-eyed and optimistic. Keep that up and someday you just might save yourself from crushing cynicism.

          I bounce between optimism, pessimism, and abject cynicism faster than it takes AJ to throw out another ad hom.

           

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        John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:01am

        Re: Re:

        It's a law implemented as a "voluntary agreement". From the government and industry's point of view, it's the best of all worlds. A law that doesn't have even the meager Constitutional protections that a law would provide.

        The scare quotes around "voluntary agreement" are because it's as much voluntary as when you "voluntarily" pay an extortionist.

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:10pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Plus it wasn't even voluntary for the ISPs. Biden was their the whole time reminding everyone that 'regulation' might have to happen if some progress wasn't made.

           

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      PaulT (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:02am

      Re:

      He might do if it ever happened. Where's it happening? All I see is a private agreement between cartels that block access to the web based on accusations.

       

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      Josef Anvil (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:33am

      Re: Ummm

      Only one problem with your comment, this isn't law enforcement, it's a corporate agreement. Unless the ISPs have been deputized and no one told us.

       

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:39am

      Re:

      This isn't copyright enforcement - this is a free backdoor into every Comcast user's PC. And yet, we're the criminals?

       

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      jupiterkansas (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:54am

      Re:

      This isn't copyright law.

       

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      TheLoot (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:54pm

      Re:

      I was unaware that this system was a law.

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:43am

    Comcast is upset that they lost the worst company of 2012 to EA so they're trying harder this year.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:54am

    pirate mike once again supports theft, if your still stealing content from others after 4 strikes what do you expect.

    Soemthing must be done about the billions lost.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:01am

      Re:

      herp derp derpy derp herp herpaderp.
      ac·cu·sa·tion
      /ˌakyəˈzāSHən/
      Noun
      A charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong.
      The action or process of making such a charge or claim.

      You're a big fan of using "Stealing is Stealing" so let me put this in a way you can understand.
      Accusations are Accusations.

       

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      Baldaur Regis (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:04am

      Re:

      *yawn*

      You're a pretty funny lady, most of the time. But maybe you should get some new material - 'pirate mike' is one tired old hyperbole.

       

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        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:12am

        Re: Re:

        entrepreneurial mike would be my suggestion
        but that could confuse the french speaking readership
        who may not be aware what the term entrepreneur means, not having a word for it in their own language and all.

         

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      PaulT (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:06am

      Re:

      "Soemthing must be done about the billions lost."

      We could start by getting the IP addresses of you morons leaked so that we can get you kicked off the web and adult conversation is allowed. The irony would be sweet, since every time someone brings up the "there's no due process and the evidence is often wrong" reasons for this stuff being unacceptable, you just attack them with lies.

      Then, perhaps your corporate gods might like to try business models that don't involve blocking half the planet from legally accessing content, ripping off everyone that does buy then complaining when people go elsewhere.

       

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      Zakida Paul (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:09am

      Re:

      Moron

       

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:10am

      Re:

      About had it with you and those like you who could give less of a flying fuck about things like due process. The type that thinks that the Constitution takes a back seat to your profit margin, but the moment you feel even the tiniest slight are ready to lawyer up and use that due process to the fullest extent that your bank account can handle.
      Whatever Mike is or isn't, you simply are not adding anything to the conversation. Get bent, asshat.

       

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      identicon
      out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:17am

      Re: A FALSE out_of_the_blue from a LIAR. Real one below.

      NASTY LITTLE LIAR. You've committed FRAUD.

       

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:18am

      Re:

      out_of_the_blue I have a few questions for you:

      How many people will be able to see their contracted TOS through their ISP's e-mail service when the only means of seeing notifications are on said e-mail service? I mean really, how many people actually use their ISP e-mail service one iota?

      How is this article supporting piracy of any kind when it is questioning the legality of the methods that Comcast uses to notify users support of piracy?

      Jus tot give you a perspective on how Comcast can do this...they mess with the firmware of the modem you rent from them, and it injects a virus or code of some sort into whomever uses that same network. They are utilizing web browser security flaws and their own web services to spread their virus. It is in fact a virus. It infects the user's computer and after that no matter where the user goes, with a laptop for instance, outside of Comcast, they still get redirected no matter the ISP they connect to. Unless they share the code or someone reverse engineers it in some way..there will be no way to run a security patch to fix the problem. Does that sum it up for you??

       

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        Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:20am

        Re: Re:

        Wait...it could also be classified as a WORM as viruses rely on the user spreading the malicious code physically.

         

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        Avatar28 (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:25am

        Re: Re:

        I'm skeptical that they would infect your computer to prevent it from working outside of their network. If they did then that would be a serious lawsuit waiting to happen.

         

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          That One Guy (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:54am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Indeed, why, they might get a slap on the wrist and someone telling them sternly not to do it again, much like what Sony 'suffered' due to the whole rootkit shenanigans they pulled a few years back! /s

           

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:36pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          AOL 1998...though not a virus, when 1998 rolled around AOL still contained their own walled garden of content. When users finally saw the actual internet, they dumped AOL (with a lot of difficulty).

           

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        John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:04am

        Re: Re:

        I mean really, how many people actually use their ISP e-mail service one iota?


        Not only don't I use it, I don't even know what the login credentials for my Comcast account are.

         

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          Rikuo (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:01am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Same here. I've had five different ISPs now, and with each one of them, I was given an ISP email address. However, not once did I even so much as try to activate them or access them in any way. I have no idea what the email addresses are or were. I've been using hotmail for nearly ten years now.

           

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          identicon
          AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:07am

          Re: Re: Re:

          A very serious point. I check mine about once every 2-6 months just in case something interesting turned up. Gmail may be less secure (though even that's not certain), but it is far more convenient and much more efficient at both sorting mail and filtering out junk. I even tried forwarding it to gmail once but it added the isp's tag forcing me to sort it manually.

           

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:32pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          That itself is yet another example as to why Six Strikes is extremely shady.

          It reminds me of the B&N TOS case Mike Mansick had written about one day....It exisits, but it isn't entirely easily accessible..which may invalidate the ISP's side of the TOS.

           

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      ComputerAddict (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:51am

      Re:

      Accustation 1 of 6: I would like to Accuse Out_of_the_blue of 'Stealing' the means and methods of trolling on the interwebs.

      1 Down.. I wonder if 5 more people would also accuse you of stuff just because they dont like you...

      You know what... I think for this one I will hold my breath... shouldn't take too long.

       

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      D, Mar 1st, 2013 @ 1:02pm

      Re:

      Total rubbish, as usual.

       

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    Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:06am

    Earthlink

    Anyone who has had an Earthlink account in 2006 will tell you how annoying this procedure of browser redirecting is. It usually happened when a 403 error occurred. It would automatically redirect the person to their own search service.

     

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    Mark Gisleson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:09am

    CenturyLink (formerly Qwest) is not a part of this, and every tech/repair person I've ever talked to joked with me about piracy. They simply don't care.

    Sadly, they're regional so you can't switch to their DSL product, but Qwest/CenturyLink has always been a great ISP.

     

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      Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:21am

      Re:

      As a CenturyLink customer, I am glad they still believe in due process...well, for now, at least. Sometimes being in flyover country isn't all bad.

       

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:23am

      Re:

      Funny thing is about Comcast's code....no matter what ISP you switch to..you will still be redirected to Comcast's anti-piracy propaganda. This may become the biggest scandal since the Sony BMG rootkit virus DRM.

       

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        Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:10am

        Re: Re:

        "Funny thing is about Comcast's code....no matter what ISP you switch to..you will still be redirected to Comcast's anti-piracy propaganda. "
        Gonna need a cite on this one too.

         

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:34pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          The article article itself indicates it...as well as Comcast's statement on its implementation.

           

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:36pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          "If a consumer fails to respond to several Copyright Alerts, Comcast will place a persistent alert in any web browser under that account until the account holder contacts Comcast's Customer Security Assurance professionals to discuss and help resolve the matter"....

           

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            Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:15pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            "Funny thing is about Comcast's code....no matter what ISP you switch to..you will still be redirected to Comcast's anti-piracy propaganda."
            OK, I think you meant to say what site not what ISP.

            If I change ISP's, say from Comcast to AT&T and Comcast still shows me their notice, I am going to have a major problem (and so are they). Now if I just type www.att.com and it redirects to their page (while I am connected to Comcast's cable modem) that is OK, but I am just connecting to a site, not an ISP.

             

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:14am

      Re:

      Qwest/CenturyLink has always been a great ISP.

      To a point. In my area I'd say that they're actually the lesser of two evils. (The other being Comcast) A few years ago Qwest temporarily disconnected my DSL because they received several DMCA notices linked to my account and I had to call customer service to have access restored.

      More recently, I decided to download as much of my Steam library as my hard drives would allow. After 3 months of continuous downloading Centurylink injected a popup into my browser (sound familiar?) informing me that I had exceeded my download cap for the last three months and that I needed to decrease my usage or upgrade to a business account.

       

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      An OminousCoward, Oct 14th, 2013 @ 8:06pm

      CenturyLink

      CenturyLink is NOT a great ISP.
      I had a business account with them, and they couldn't keep my service up.
      They claimed I was too far from the node.

      Sure, sure, I get it. Distance is difficult, yeah.

      Except... I could throw a rock from the back door of my office building and hit the back of their local corporate office.

      Interesting subnote: techdirt's comment system actively inserts deprecated html (the break tag) into the comment.

       

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      Shinji, Nov 1st, 2013 @ 5:22am

      Re:

      Actually they do care as I know people that got walled in when the DMCA requests came through. General rule of thumb...

      If you don't get caught nothing happens.

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:09am

    Not a Bad Plan

    I can see where Comcast is coming from here: if they terminated your account, you wouldn't be paying them any more since you're no longer a customer. Since they keep you on, and just block every web site, the MPAA is happy that they're doing something, and you have to keep paying your subscription or deal with cancellation fees.

    Brilliant...

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:07am

      Re: Not a Bad Plan

      Until they get hit with a class action suit for breach of contract. Which will happen when enough people are affected by this.

       

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        Shinji, Nov 1st, 2013 @ 5:36am

        Re: Re: Not a Bad Plan

        Except no breach exists. I'd suggest reading that AUP and Subscriber agreement that you agreed to. Also it is done after several notices which means you likely had opportunity to contact them willingly.

        Service agreements do not equate to contracts. Not on a legal standpoint.

        Actually I'll save you the trouble

        http://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Customers/Policies/HighSpeedInternetAUP.html

        How does Comcast address inappropriate content and transmissions?

        Comcast reserves the right to refuse to transmit or post, and to remove or block, any information or materials, in whole or in part, that it, in its sole discretion, deems to be in violation of Sections I or II of this Policy, or otherwise harmful to Comcast's network or customers using the Service, regardless of whether this material or its dissemination is unlawful so long as it violates this Policy. Neither Comcast nor any of its affiliates, suppliers, or agents have any obligation to monitor transmissions or postings (including, but not limited to, email, file transfer, blog, newsgroup, and instant message transmissions as well as materials available on the Personal Web Features as defined below) made on the Service. However, Comcast and its affiliates, suppliers, and agents have the right to monitor these transmissions and postings from time to time for violations of this Policy and to disclose, block, or remove them in accordance with this Policy, the Subscriber Agreement, and applicable law.

        And further down...

        How does Comcast enforce this Policy?
        [excerpt only]Comcast prefers to inform customers of inappropriate activities and give them a reasonable period of time in which to take corrective action. Comcast also prefers to have customers directly resolve any disputes or disagreements they may have with others, whether customers or not, without Comcast's intervention. However, if the Service is used in a way that Comcast or its suppliers, in their sole discretion, believe violates this Policy, Comcast or its suppliers may take any responsive actions they deem appropriate under the circumstances with or without notice. These actions include, but are not limited to, temporary or permanent removal of content, filtering of Internet transmissions, and the immediate suspension or termination of all or any portion of the Service.

        Which they are doing because they are doing 3 notices then blocking at that point to get you to call in so they can work with you. What exactly they do I'm not sure as I'm not a customer of theirs. I only know people who use their services.

        Their customer agreement too
        http://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Customers/Policies/SubscriberAgreement.html

        I found with internet services that it is a good idea to at least review the agreements you are giving consent to. It at least lets you know what you are giving them permission to do.

         

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          Slappy, Mar 19th, 2014 @ 8:33am

          Re: Re: Re: Not a Bad Plan

          You wrote:

          Service agreements do not equate to contracts. Not on a legal standpoint.

          Could you leave the lawyering to a lawyer? Your ISP agreed to provide a service that you agreed to pay for. What are the terms and conditions of that service that you agreed to pay for? See the terms of service or service agreement and related matters. So, yes, is part of the contract.

          Next, how much negotiating did you do with respect to your contract with your ISP? Was offered to you on a take it or leave it basis? So is a contract of adhesion, and so the court is going to pay extra care to the matter of whether the condition(s) and/or term(s) at issue are unconscionable, and if so, will not be enforced.

           

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:10am

    Is this really that big a deal.
    This Comcast page is one you only get to if accused of 4 presumably separate (although we know how copyright maximalists like to multiple count the same items) infringements and does not respond to any of them.

    Barring what will undoubtedly be egregious other terms, one presumes that contacting them to say, you've sent these infringement notices and I haven't actually infringed any copyright will be sufficient to avoid the webpage of doom.

     

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      Mike Masnick (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:55am

      Re:

      one presumes that contacting them to say, you've sent these infringement notices and I haven't actually infringed any copyright will be sufficient to avoid the webpage of doom.

      Really? I would not be so fast to "presume" such a thing.

      The official six strikes system has a very involved "appeals process" in which you have to pay $35 and are only limited to a few possible defenses. Comcast likely will just pass people off to that, rather than clearing you up via a call.

       

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        Milton Freewater, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:50pm

        Re: Re:

        "The official six strikes system has a very involved "appeals process" in which you have to pay $35 and are only limited to a few possible defenses. Comcast likely will just pass people off to that, rather than clearing you up via a call."

        Mike, that doesn't make much sense. The appeals process is for strikes you dispute, not simply being reeducated.

        if they fined you to reinstate you, that would still not be an appeal.

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:40pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          It does if you don't care about your customers or anybody for that matter.

          You do the bare minimum to say you are complying and game the system so you don't get flooded with complaints.

          If you just encrypt your traffic, I doubt very much that Comcast will do any real effort to see what is going on behind the curtains.

           

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        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:59pm

        Re: Re:

        Just what I believe to be a correction based upon what I earlier read in articles presented here.

        A user would receive approximately 4 notices by email and telephone about a perceived downloading/uploading issue.

        About the 5th or 6th notice one can request a review (yes, there is a fee that is refundable if you prevail).

        While this does impose burdens on users (likely only a very few), if problems continue after 4 notices, it does seem reasonable for an ISP to question how one is using his/her ISP service.

        Mind you, P2P is a technology and not the problem. The problem is how that technology is being used by certain persons.

         

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          btrussell (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 5:38pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          "While this does impose burdens on users (likely only a very few), if problems continue after 4 notices, it does seem reasonable for an ISP to question how one is using his/her ISP service."

          You mean it seems reasonable to determine how accurate the accusation service is?

          Piracy is rampant, isn't it? Or is it likely only a very few?

           

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    identicon
    out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:11am

    So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

    As I've said, you're just not thinking draconian enough.

    ALSO, as I read intents (from their TOS), a VPN will NOT help you: they're monitoring by both amount and TYPE of traffic, and as I've said torrenting is easily detected. It's not even clear whether your IP must FIRST be specifically fingered by Big Media. -- They may well be so intertwined as to POINT YOU OUT as torrenting to Big Media! Which then looks at tapped data and complains, which then allows ISP to look more closely at you! THIS IS A CONSPIRACY, FOLKS! Not going to be easy to get around.

    Now, it's also not anything complicated with javascript as someone muses above, NOR is it a re-direct (probably why you can't see it, Mike): it just plain hijacks your browser by sending back all requests with customized HTML of whatever they want in it. They can put just a header on, or totally remove all other content. You CAN'T GET AROUND IT (from your MAC address, NOR of course will the ISP permit unknown MAC addresses). This is a man-in-the-middle whom you now can't trust.

    SO, my take is: THANKS AGAIN, PIRATES, for making ME subject to this tyranny. You just can't keep your little fingers off other people's data.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:13am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      You think they can actually touch data? are we really in the matrix after all?

       

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      Zakida Paul (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:14am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      Moron

       

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        identicon
        out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:19am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        @ "Zakida Paul" DOUBLE MORON. But you may be confused by FALSE comment above.

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:38am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          No no, he's right, you are a moron...a non citation providing, ad hom using moron.

           

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:38am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          I don't blame him for being confused about your false claims above one bit.

           

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          out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:16am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          oh yeah? well yer a double DOG moron!!!

           

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:17am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      Pa doesn't want to beat you children but Timmy's behaviour means all of you and Ma are just going to have to face the music.
      Everytime I bring the belt down, you need to remember it's Timmy's fault I have to treat y'all like this.

       

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        Anonymous Coward, Mar 2nd, 2013 @ 12:54am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        Always sad to see victims of poor parenting explaining to a 4 year old the concept of "you can't just take whatever the fuck you want".

         

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      PaulT (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:21am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      "I still don't know how VPNs work, let alone the internet or the reasons people object to this crap"

      We know, ootb, we know...

       

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        out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:37am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        @ "PaulT (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:21am

        Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...
        "I still don't know how VPNs work, let alone the internet or the reasons people object to this crap"

        We know, ootb, we know..."

        ----------------

        I understand VPN adequately. It's not enough to hide your IP from Big Media when your man--in-the-middle ISP is ratting you out! You missed the key point that I conjecture the ISP is directly looking at upload/download ratio OR amount of data to determine torrenting or other unusual rates, then asking Big Media to examine the actual content for an opinion. I tacitly admit it's a BIG conjecture. It's based on reading the TOS which hints at those methods.

        So it's YOU who are behind the times on how much monitoring ISPs are doing. You're obviously a dolt who thinks inside a tiny box. Better minds than yours are WAY ahead of you on this.

         

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          Lowestofthekeys (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:39am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          http://www.wired.com/business/2011/05/netflix-traffic/

          So how will they tell the difference between netflix traffic and torrent traffic?

           

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:22pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            This is from the guy that thinks being in a higher income bracket than him is evidence of a crime. He's real big on behavior that doesn't match his own pattern constituting evidence of some kind of infraction.

             

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:46am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          The ISP cannot base this on the Upload download ratio alone because 9.99 times out of 10, the casual BitTorrent client user doesn't know how to stop the uploading.

          I downloaded BlackMesa Source (a Half-Life 2 Mod) using a BitTorrent client. It is roughly 3.7GB in size and I uploaded about 768 Megabytes of that unknowingly to other users downloading the same material.

          The general way a P2P network runs is that all the computers on the network are assigned to send a little piece of data of the same resource from here and there to be compiled on the client side. The more Seeders sending a client (leacher) the faster the network goes. Slowdowns occur when the number of leachers is greater than that of the seeders.

           

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          saulgoode (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:16am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          You missed the key point that I conjecture the ISP is directly looking at upload/download ratio OR amount of data to determine torrenting or other unusual rates, then asking Big Media to examine the actual content for an opinion.
          Two things. Firstly, torrenting is neither illegal nor against an ISP's terms of service; it is an efficient and popular means of transferring large amounts of data on the Internet.

          Secondly, an ISP is not able to examine the actual content that you exchange through a VPN; that channel is encrypted. Your computer encrypts the data, sends it to your VPN, your VPN decrypts it, and sends it to the destination. Likewise, the destination sends the response (as cleartext) to your VPN, your VPN encrypts it, and forwards it to you. The destination site has no way of determining who you are, and your ISP has no way of knowing what you are sending or to whom you are sending it.

           

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          John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:42am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          It's not enough to hide your IP from Big Media when your man--in-the-middle ISP is ratting you out!


          Actually, it is -- unless your VPN provider is ratting you out.

          then asking Big Media to examine the actual content for an opinion


          If you're using a VPN then it is not possible for them to examine the actual content.

           

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:45am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          "I understand VPN adequately."

          Actually, you really don't.

          "You missed the key point that I conjecture the ISP is directly looking at upload/download ratio OR amount of data to determine torrenting or other unusual rates, then asking Big Media to examine the actual content for an opinion."

          Uh, yeah, no. That's not at all what's happening. Instead, what the reality and facts have already described as happening is that the ISPs and Copyright Holders have hired a third party to monitor peer to peer traffic and forward to them any IP addresses engaging in copyright infringement. At which point the ISPs are forwarding the notices (or better said not forwarding so much as hijacking your browser and serving you a notice) to the customers.

          "I tacitly admit it's a BIG conjecture."

          Translation: I don't know what I'm talking about at all, but for the sake of argument I'm going to pretend I'm right and do know what I'm talking about.

          Or, perhaps it'd be better said to quote the late, great Douglas Adams for what you actually mean with that bit. "...for though it cannot hope to be useful or informative on all matters, it does at least make the reassuring claim, that where it is inaccurate it is at least definitively inaccurate. In cases of major discrepancy it's always reality that's got it wrong."

          Sums you up pretty nice and is just as fitting for you as well as The Guide.

          "It's based on reading the TOS which hints at those methods."

          Ah yes, reading and comprehension, both of which are mutually unknown to you.

          Other websites, with more technical expertise than you could ever hope to have, have already weighed in on the matter and gotten information (facts and evidence) to support what I've already stated is transpiring above. Suffice it to say, your interpretation of the Terms of Service agreements is not only inaccurate, but so wrong it actually causes those of us with some technical expertise acute and glaring pain.

          "So it's YOU who are behind the times on how much monitoring ISPs are doing. You're obviously a dolt who thinks inside a tiny box. Better minds than yours are WAY ahead of you on this."

          Wow. It's like you read my mind and wrote exactly what I was going to say to you and about you. Kudos to you Blue, for the scathing retort which you should have directed at yourself (due to the fact that when directed at you it is completely and totally factually based in reality).

           

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            Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:23pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            The very fact that you are questioning John Fenderson about his knowledge only proves you are trolling.

             

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:35pm

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          Blue why would Comcast do that exactly?

          Are the iditos from the MAFIAA paying them or is coming out of Comcast's pockets?

          Comcast's spokesperson said that a simple VPN would bypass all those measures.

          Which is a great hint to you and anybody else betting on this crap, what this really means.

          It means Comcast is gently saying to people to "encrypt that fraking traffic" so others can look at it and the idiots stop complaining that we must do something.

           

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      Ninja (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:24am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      they're monitoring by both amount and TYPE of traffic, and as I've said torrenting is easily detected

      Because there's no legitimate use for this type of P2P technology, right? There's this music festival, SW-something. They made all the songs available in 2 torrents that were like 8Gb total. Then there's Blizzard and similar P2P distributing system for their content. But never mind that, you are firmly stuck in your false beliefs.

      So what you are saying is that if I download Diablo III using P2P via VPN they'll just assume I must be a pirate. Nice.

      SO, my take is: THANKS AGAIN, PIRATES, for making ME subject to this tyranny. You just can't keep your little fingers off other people's data.

      Pirates are just a convenient scapegoat, if there were no pirates they'd blame whatever.

       

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        Gee, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:46am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        He also fails to understand that VPNs ENCRYPT TRAFFIC. So unless they flag all VPN traffic, which would be ridiculous, they would have no idea what traffic is actually going over the VPN.

         

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        Milton Freewater, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:46pm

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        "they're monitoring by both amount and TYPE of traffic"

        This guy lied again.

        MarkMonitor is collecting IP addersses from BT swarms. That's why they level a copyright infringement accusation - because, derp, they have evidence that someone infringed copyright.

        Mike and co., when someone comes onto this site and posts stuff he knows is blatantly false, that calls for a ban. This guy hurts rightsholders, your readers and everybody else. Even the First Amendment does not cover yelling fire in a crowded theater, and you don't get a much better example of that then this.

         

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:25am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      Tell me blue...is it legal to write a virus and basically redirect you to the same anti-piracy message, where no matter what ISP you switch to afterward, you still get redirected to Comcasts's website?

       

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      out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:30am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      No. I am the real out_of_the_blue.

       

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        out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:40am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        This man is an impostor!

         

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        ltlw0lf (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:46am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        No. I am the real out_of_the_blue.

        No, I am Spartacus.

         

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        RD, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:50am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        "No. I am the real out_of_the_blue."

        Don't really care. ANY OOTB-labeled post is auto-report to me, now and forever.

         

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      Designerfx (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:35am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      why blame pirates?

      pirates aren't causing this redirect. comcast and/or the MAFIAA are. Thank them, dumbass.

       

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      Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:44am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      a VPN will NOT help you: they're monitoring by both amount and TYPE of traffic, and as I've said torrenting is easily detected.

      You have no understanding of how VPNs function. An ISP cannot tell anything about the type or content of data within the encrypted VPN. They cannot tell if it is a WOW patch, a piece of public domain content, or the latest episode of Game of Thrones.

      By analyzing the traffic flow, as in the amount, frequency and direction of traffic, they might be able to tell that it is filesharing traffic, but that would be the limit. They cannot tell what file you were sharing, they cannot tell who you are talking to (other than the VPN service).

      And there are some things you or the VPN service can do to thwart traffic analysis. One way is to have a constant flow of junk data as padding between you and the VPN to maintain a level flow of traffic in both directions - so instead of the signature of filesharing traffic flow, it looks entirely different. Now, only very few VPNs (for the particularly paranoid) have anything like this, but you can do something similar yourself easily enough. Route both your torrent traffic through it and stream something from Netflix via the VPN at the same time, and you'll change the signature of encrypted filesharing to something unrecognizable.

       

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        Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:49am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        Good luck using VPN to get around it. They inject it into the Java API.

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:46am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          So... uninstall java...

           

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 6:47pm

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          "Good luck using VPN to get around it. They inject it into the Java API."

          VPN traffic is encrypted. They might be able to block it, but they can't inject content into it.

           

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        out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:56am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        "By analyzing the traffic flow, as in the amount, frequency and direction of traffic, they might be able to tell that it is filesharing traffic, but that would be the limit." -- But that's enough!

        I'm telling ya, it's man-in-the-middle vulnerability. They may finger you to Big Media for analysis from upload amount, then a separate Big Media torrenter (it'd only be on most popular of course), could collate that with their own traffic. And since all they need is "probably", based on amount and type of traffic, that's adequate. Remember too that the ISP can collect traffic to identify specific packets, besides exact details such as MAC address and other uniquely identifying pieces.

        Stuffing your tubes full a data won't work, neither: not only are data caps integral to this, but it screams "I'm hiding something".

        Again, start thinking what it means that you now can't trust your ISP! Get outside your notion that you've a safe haven.

         

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:21am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          The safe haven is the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

          Notably here:

          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1029

          (a) Whoever—
          (1) knowingly and with intent to defraud produces, uses, or traffics in one or more counterfeit access devices;
          (2) knowingly and with intent to defraud traffics in or uses one or more unauthorized access devices during any one-year period, and by such conduct obtains anything of value aggregating $1,000 or more during that period;
          (3) knowingly and with intent to defraud possesses fifteen or more devices which are counterfeit or unauthorized access devices;
          (4) knowingly, and with intent to defraud, produces, traffics in, has control or custody of, or possesses device-making equipment;
          (5) knowingly and with intent to defraud effects transactions, with 1 or more access devices issued to another person or persons, to receive payment or any other thing of value during any 1-year period the aggregate value of which is equal to or greater than $1,000;
          (6) without the authorization of the issuer of the access device, knowingly and with intent to defraud solicits a person for the purpose of—
          (A) offering an access device; or
          (B) selling information regarding or an application to obtain an access device;
          (7) knowingly and with intent to defraud uses, produces, traffics in, has control or custody of, or possesses a telecommunications instrument that has been modified or altered to obtain unauthorized use of telecommunications services;
          (8) knowingly and with intent to defraud uses, produces, traffics in, has control or custody of, or possesses a scanning receiver;
          (9) knowingly uses, produces, traffics in, has control or custody of, or possesses hardware or software, knowing it has been configured to insert or modify telecommunication identifying information associated with or contained in a telecommunications instrument so that such instrument may be used to obtain telecommunications service without authorization; or
          (10) without the authorization of the credit card system member or its agent, knowingly and with intent to defraud causes or arranges for another person to present to the member or its agent, for payment, 1 or more evidences or records of transactions made by an access device;
          shall, if the offense affects interstate or foreign commerce, be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section.


          Here is subsection (b) which indicates that not only will Comcast be in trouble, but so will the MPAA and RIAA it is very short compared to other sections:

          (b)
          (1) Whoever attempts to commit an offense under subsection (a) of this section shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense attempted.
          (2) Whoever is a party to a conspiracy of two or more persons to commit an offense under subsection (a) of this section, if any of the parties engages in any conduct in furtherance of such offense, shall be fined an amount not greater than the amount provided as the maximum fine for such offense under subsection (c) of this section or imprisoned not longer than one-half the period provided as the maximum imprisonment for such offense under subsection (c) of this section, or both.




          On to subsection (c):
          (c) Penalties.—
          (1) Generally.— The punishment for an offense under subsection (a) of this section is—
          (A) in the case of an offense that does not occur after a conviction for another offense under this section—
          (i) if the offense is under paragraph (1), (2), (3), (6), (7), or (10) of subsection (a), a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both; and
          (ii) if the offense is under paragraph (4), (5), (8), or (9) of subsection (a), a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 15 years, or both;
          (B) in the case of an offense that occurs after a conviction for another offense under this section, a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 20 years, or both; and
          (C) in either case, forfeiture to the United States of any personal property used or intended to be used to commit the offense.
          (2) Forfeiture procedure.— The forfeiture of property under this section, including any seizure and disposition of the property and any related administrative and judicial proceeding, shall be governed by section 413 of the Controlled Substances Act, except for subsection (d) of that section.



          Lets see what U.S.C 18 Article 1030 has to say (note I jumped ahead to accesses and damages):

          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030

          (5)
          (A) knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;
          (B) intentionally accesses a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, recklessly causes damage; or
          (C) intentionally accesses a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, causes damage and loss. [2]
          (6) knowingly and with intent to defraud traffics (as defined in section 1029) in any password or similar information through which a computer may be accessed without authorization, if—
          (A) such trafficking affects interstate or foreign commerce; or
          (B) such computer is used by or for the Government of the United States; [3]
          (7) with intent to extort from any person any money or other thing of value, transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any—
          (A) threat to cause damage to a protected computer;
          (B) threat to obtain information from a protected computer without authorization or in excess of authorization or to impair the confidentiality of information obtained from a protected computer without authorization or by exceeding authorized access; or
          (C) demand or request for money or other thing of value in relation to damage to a protected computer, where such damage was caused to facilitate the extortion;
          shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section.
          (b) Whoever conspires to commit or attempts to commit an offense under subsection (a) of this section shall be punished as provided in subsection (c) of this section.
          (c) The punishment for an offense under subsection (a) or (b) of this section is—
          (1)
          (A) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than ten years, or both, in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(1) of this section which does not occur after a conviction for another offense under this section, or an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph; and
          (B) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both, in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(1) of this section which occurs after a conviction for another offense under this section, or an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph;
          (2)
          (A) except as provided in subparagraph (B), a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(2), (a)(3), or (a)(6) of this section which does not occur after a conviction for another offense under this section, or an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph;
          (B) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both, in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(2), or an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph, if—
          (i) the offense was committed for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;
          (ii) the offense was committed in furtherance of any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any State; or
          (iii) the value of the information obtained exceeds $5,000; and
          (C) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than ten years, or both, in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(2), (a)(3) or (a)(6) of this section which occurs after a conviction for another offense under this section, or an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph;
          (3)
          (A) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than five years, or both, in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(4) or (a)(7) of this section which does not occur after a conviction for another offense under this section, or an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph; and
          (B) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than ten years, or both, in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(4), [4] or (a)(7) of this section which occurs after a conviction for another offense under this section, or an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph;
          (4)
          (A) except as provided in subparagraphs (E) and (F), a fine under this title, imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both, in the case of—
          (i) an offense under subsection (a)(5)(B), which does not occur after a conviction for another offense under this section, if the offense caused (or, in the case of an attempted offense, would, if completed, have caused)—
          (I) loss to 1 or more persons during any 1-year period (and, for purposes of an investigation, prosecution, or other proceeding brought by the United States only, loss resulting from a related course of conduct affecting 1 or more other protected computers) aggregating at least $5,000 in value;
          (II) the modification or impairment, or potential modification or impairment, of the medical examination, diagnosis, treatment, or care of 1 or more individuals;
          (III) physical injury to any person;
          (IV) a threat to public health or safety;
          (V) damage affecting a computer used by or for an entity of the United States Government in furtherance of the administration of justice, national defense, or national security; or
          (VI) damage affecting 10 or more protected computers during any 1-year period; or
          (ii) an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph;
          (B) except as provided in subparagraphs (E) and (F), a fine under this title, imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both, in the case of—
          (i) an offense under subsection (a)(5)(A), which does not occur after a conviction for another offense under this section, if the offense caused (or, in the case of an attempted offense, would, if completed, have caused) a harm provided in subclauses (I) through (VI) of subparagraph (A)(i); or
          (ii) an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph;
          (C) except as provided in subparagraphs (E) and (F), a fine under this title, imprisonment for not more than 20 years, or both, in the case of—
          (i) an offense or an attempt to commit an offense under subparagraphs (A) or (B) of subsection (a)(5) that occurs after a conviction for another offense under this section; or
          (ii) an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph;
          (D) a fine under this title, imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both, in the case of—
          (i) an offense or an attempt to commit an offense under subsection (a)(5)(C) that occurs after a conviction for another offense under this section; or
          (ii) an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph;
          (E) if the offender attempts to cause or knowingly or recklessly causes serious bodily injury from conduct in violation of subsection (a)(5)(A), a fine under this title, imprisonment for not more than 20 years, or both;
          (F) if the offender attempts to cause or knowingly or recklessly causes death from conduct in violation of subsection (a)(5)(A), a fine under this title, imprisonment for any term of years or for life, or both; or
          (G) a fine under this title, imprisonment for not more than 1 year, or both, for—
          (i) any other offense under subsection (a)(5); or
          (ii) an attempt to commit an offense punishable under this subparagraph.






          So there you have your safe haven out_of_the_blue.

           

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            out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:33am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            @Wally: Whatever you think applies, you waived all that when you signed an "agreement" with the cable co. The one I read states it's monitoring and will do whatever they see fit.

             

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              Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:01am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

              Under US Law....any agreement that leads to the breaking of law automatically makes one liable under the stated penalties and points to the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

              In short to all this:
              While Comcast agreed to terms and conditions therein with the media industries to crack down on piracy, they did not make an agreement on how their version of six Strikes would be implimented. Comcast is in fact owned by NBC Universal and the Six Strikes agreement pushed by the industry left out the implementation of methods involving how to employ the agreement.

              It is a mighty convenient loophole on the grounds of agreements because the agreement only stated that they cannot cut off service completely.

              However since we all know Comcast is owned by NBC Universal, it is fairly safe to assume that by simply employing a method that merely cripples the use of the World Wide Web to the point of permanent redirection regardless, but will not cut off basic services would get around the whole "No cutting off the connection completely" agreement.

              That being said, the articles highlighted above imply that the way Comcast is implementing its anti-piracy measures completely violate the law.

              Under a contractual agreement, any arbitration clauses becomes null and void if the law is in fact violated.

              What is my point in pointing that out specifically? Simply this:

              Comcast is injecting a malicious code through a firmware "update" to its modems. The modem itself injects a piece of code to the Java API on the computer itself..not the web browser. This is done without the user's knowledge or consent and no matter where the user connects to the internet, even through another ISP, the code that causes the redirect remains on the computer itself. Thus redirecting traffic to their servers.....which is illegal.

               

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                Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:07am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                Actually, if you look at the RFC, it's PC - Modem - SMB and then either to the internet or to a Squid proxy depending on traffic type and customer database lookup results.
                http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6108

                At least I give them credit for being open and honest on exactly how the system works....

                 

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                Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:13am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                Among many other things, you have this backwards. NBC/U is owned by Comcast.

                 

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                  Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:45am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                  Actually, Comcast currently owns 51% of (ie. controlling interest) of NBC/Universal but I heard that they are trying to take 100% ownership.

                   

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                    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:56am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                    Bought the remaining 49% from GE two weeks ago. Don't tell Wally, I'm having too much fun watching him make a fool of himself.

                     

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                      Wally (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 8:45am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                      What's really sad is that you thought I wouldn't see that.

                      I mean seriously...you're the one asserting to everyone that I'm a fool, yet here you are validating my claims. This only proves you're a troll.

                       

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              Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:15am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

              Are you saying that since they tried to force and agreement that is a violation of US law that the entire agreement is null and void?

               

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                Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:21am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                Yup, as per contract law. That's the same principle that removes written agreements with loan sharks over cash repayments.

                 

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          John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:46am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          Although you don't seem to quite understand how VPNs actually work and why they prevent most of what you're talking about here, this bit:

          since all they need is "probably"


          Is almost correct. Except they don't even need the "probably". They can just accuse you for no reason at all if they wish.

           

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:01pm

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          Let me re-word that for him.

          "By analyzing the traffic flow, as in the amount, frequency and direction of traffic, they might be able to SUSPECT that it is filesharing traffic, but that would be the limit."

          They cannot tell for sure WHAT type of traffic it is.

           

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        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:14am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        An ISP cannot tell anything about the type or content of data within the encrypted VPN. They cannot tell if it is a WOW patch, a piece of public domain content, or the latest episode of Game of Thrones.

        No but they can tell you are using encrypted data as a home user. Therefore you are guilty. This is not a court of law. Proof not required.

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Mar 1st, 2013 @ 2:01am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          No but they can tell you are using encrypted data as a home user. Therefore you are guilty.

          So using a VPN connection to work from home counts as piracy!

           

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          PaulT (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 2:46am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          "No but they can tell you are using encrypted data as a home user. Therefore you are guilty. This is not a court of law. Proof not required."

          Apparently not. You've just shut down numerous home businesses, hundreds of thousands of teleworkers, huge numbers of IT contractors and on call workers, and basically anyone who needs a secure connection to do their jobs - or even to run their business in the first place. All because you're too stupid to understand the reasons why a certain technology is used.

          You're an idiot.

           

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        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:31pm

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        Sorry, I'm the one who started the Javascript injection deal, mainly because that is what they are currently using to notify customers without disconnecting them:
        http://news.softpedia.com/news/Comcast-to-Roll-Out-Botnet-Notification-System-Nationwide-1590 44.shtml
        http://forums.comcast.com/t5/Security-and-Anti-Virus/CONSTANT-GUARD-BOT-WARNING/td-p/10952 05

        But I see your point about this getting out of hand. (from the comment deal at top.)

         

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      Machin Shin (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:47am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      All I have to say is, Yikes, where did you learn about networking?

      " a VPN will NOT help you: they're monitoring by both amount and TYPE of traffic, and as I've said torrenting is easily detected."

      VPNs encrypt the traffic so the ISP cannot see what it is. That is the very point of a VPN and they are used WIDELY by businesses. So you can't block VPNs and you can't tell what is in a VPN. So how then is torrenting easily detectable?

      Even moving on from that massive fail as to what the ISP can tell about VPNs. Torrenting is perfectly LEGAL. It is by far the best way to get Linux distributions. There are tons of legal torrents, so just "torrenting" is no cause to kill a connection.

      Of course all that does not even begin to address your total epic fail about how the ISP can block people. Hijacks your browser? Really?

       

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        out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:58am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        @ "Machin Shin": a better question is "Where did you learn security?" See my above to what's-his-screen-name. You can no longer ASSUME you have a safe haven.

         

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          out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:00am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          Oh, I missed "Hijacks your browser? Really?"

          REALLY! Good heavens, you ignorant simp, that's the way cable co initial sign-up is done now. You can't get anywhere until your MAC address is in the system (as verified on site by installer), and then it sends you to the sign-up, and until that's through the system, you can only get "page not found" errors, plus whatever CGI notices they want to put in.

           

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            out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:08am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            Thou ist a ruffian and a charlatan sir....for besmirching my noble name with such peasant talk and infelicitous references to my "simp."

             

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            Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:30am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            The code is injected into the Java API on your computer directly by the modem...the modem gets modified to have it's firmware inject the malicious code rather than redirecting your data packets to their anti-piracy site through their own servers.

            If you would only look at these threads in threaded mode , you would see how much of an ass you look like in retorting to any comments. It's like you can't figure out that the page can be viewed in a hierarchical format to make responses easier to those you wish to deride or derail.

            please click on the following link out_of_the_blue:

            http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130227/14231422143/comcast-we-wont-terminate- your-account-under-six-strikes-well-just-block-every-single-website.shtml?threaded=true&sp=1#com ments

             

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              out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:40am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

              @"Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:30am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...
              The code is injected into the Java API on your computer directly by the modem...the modem gets modified to have it's firmware inject the malicious code rather than redirecting your data packets to their anti-piracy site through their own servers."

              There's NO Java app on my computer, nor ANY possibility of such. You are totally wrong on this point. Who am I going to believe, you or my own eyes?


              @ "If you would only look at these threads in threaded mode , you would see how much of an ass you look like in retorting to any comments. It's like you can't figure out that the page can be viewed in a hierarchical format to make responses easier to those you wish to deride or derail."

              WRONG AGAIN. Can't you see that when I reply to YOUR post, I AM in threaded? See the "Re: Re: Re: Re:"? What an insane little fixation you have there, and only bit yourself in the ass with it, fool.

               

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                Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:05am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                "There's NO Java app on my computer, nor ANY possibility of such. You are totally wrong on this point. Who am I going to believe, you or my own eyes?"

                Ok, you're more computer oriented than most people out there. Maybe you don't have Java turned on...but the issue is that most of the people that use the internet, are not as savvy as the rest of us. They leave JavaScript enabled and update it regularly, and they use it.

                Not all people or person's who use the internet regularly are computer geeks.

                 

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                  Togashi (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:56am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                  Java and JavaScript are completely separate. You don't have to update/install JavaScript, and Java doesn't have anything to do with your computer accessing the internet. Which one are you claiming they're using here?

                   

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                    Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:02pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                    Java Script.

                    You can make stand alone, non web-based apps with it.
                    A worm can easily do things on its own as the standard virus cannot be spread without human help. The execution of connecting to the internet, in any way, could could trigger the injection. The code injection could be triggered simply when data packets are sent through the modem (which stores the malware infected firmware)to their website.

                    Simply put the worm could be programmed to piggyback on the return ping of confirmation your signal was sent to Comcast's anti-piracy page, thus permanently redirecting you there.

                    The reason I cited JavaScrip and/or Java itself is because it is a standard to use Java and or Java Script to program the menus you see when watching a movie on BluRay. The encryption code in the firmware on all BluRay players is written in Java. We have to update said firmware some times when DRM is used and the only movie I can cite for that was Avatar's brief stint on BluRay.

                     

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                      Togashi (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:49pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                      I still really feel like you're confusing these two, when they are not actually related to each other. JavaScript is typically handled by the user's browser, where Java requires you to have the JRE installed.

                      I ask mainly because if they're using flaws in Java, disabling JavaScript in your browser won't do anything about that, other than if they're using some JavaScript implementation flaws to download or start executing the Java in the first place. If they're using flaws in JavaScript for the worm itself, having Java installed or not will have no effect.

                      I understand that the menus are likely programmed in Java, a lot of things are. I don't want to sound like I'm questioning that at all. I just want you to figure out which you really mean and stick to that one.

                       

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                      PaulT (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 3:38am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                      "The reason I cited JavaScrip and/or Java itself is because it is a standard to use Java and or Java Script to program the menus you see when watching a movie on BluRay."

                      I think you're still confusing them.

                      Java is the one that runs on a lot of embedded devices and often used for offline apps. It's also the one used in Blu Rays (look at the Blu-J standard). Recent exploits have attacked Java, specifically the virtual machines supplied by Oracle. It can easily be removed from PC or turned off in the control panel, and the version used by Blu ray players and other embedded devices is a different version to the one typically used on desktops.

                      Javascript is the one that's usually used in conjunction with HTML/XML to create dynamic pages (hence the J in the acronym AJAX). It's supplied by most browsers and cannot usually be uninstalled, although most browsers have security options that include the ability to disable it completely as it's a traditional vector for malicious content. As far as I'm aware, no Blu Rays use Javascript, although competing standards have used ECMAScript.

                      They are completely different technologies, and mixing up the 2 terms is confusing whatever point you think you're making.

                       

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                        Wally (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 8:42am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                        Thank you for helping me clarify that. And I am sorry for accusing (specifically) you as being troll :-)

                        Ok so now that you have clarified that for me, I now politely ask you to look at the point I was making. I will shorten it and for the sake of not mixing things up in terminology I will now refer my point using the word "Code".


                        My point is this. Comcast has pointed out that no matter where a user goes after they have been redirected to their anti-piracy website, even onto another Internet connection on another ISP, they will still get redirected to Comcast's anti-piracy web site. This means that they might have to inject a malicious code through the embedded firmware on their modems. It doesn't matter whether it is Java-based code or not.

                        Thanky you PaulT you are awesome :-)

                         

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                          PaulT (profile), Mar 2nd, 2013 @ 2:35am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                          Hey, no problem. But, just to be blunt, your technical knowledge is shaky at best. You're learning and open to some criticism, which is great, but you still have some misunderstanding of some basic concepts. If people get annoyed with you or call you out on that, it doesn't make them trolls, it just means that they find the assertions you make based on those misunderstandings somewhat silly. Keep learning, but understand that when you're commenting on a site with "tech" in the URL, you're likely to be arguing with people who know more than you do.

                          As for you point about Comcast, I'm not familiar with their setup or what they've announced, but it does seem relatively unlikely that they'd keep an exploit open just to mess with customers. Most ISPs, especially cable ISPs, have direct access to their equipment in the home and can alter the firmware, etc. at will. It's technically a rental unit under many contracts so they can change the software when they want. It's more likely that this is what they're doing rather than using a Java exploit, but even if they are doing that, it's a very different situation from exploits found on home PCs.

                           

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                            Wally (profile), Mar 2nd, 2013 @ 7:06am

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                            "f people get annoyed with you or call you out on that, it doesn't make them trolls, it just means that they find the assertions you make based on those misunderstandings somewhat silly."

                            I agree PaulT, but there are better ways to correct people on their assertions. The AC that was being an ass in general and did in fact troll on several other occasions in the past.

                            That particular AC always asserted that I was wrong more than citing any actual noticeable correction to my claims. Most of the actual message he response he leaves pertains in actions thereto attempting to push my buttons and basically get an angry reaction out of me. That in of itself is trolling.

                            It isn't whether or not the AC in our case is right or wrong that makes him a troll or not, it is his execution. He uses adhom proxying to carry out his message by writing lengthy retorts. That is also trolling.

                            In short, it is all about execution.

                             

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                            Wally (profile), Mar 2nd, 2013 @ 7:13am

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                            SO Basiscally telling the modem "Go here in stead...". Either way that is a violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. Customers usually are not aware of the firmware changes in the modem itself and upon further analysis of reading, the entire LAN (or WLAN) that people set up in their homes will be affected.

                             

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:12pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            WTF? The only MAC address filtering that happens is they filter only allow the connections from the router or bridge (what most people who don't know better call the modem) that they gave you. The MAC address of your computer has nothing to do with it. There was a time where some of them would block MAC addresses for 3rd party routers so that they could force you to pay for multiple IP addresses but when the routers started offering the ability to clone the MAC address from one of your computers those practices pretty much went bye bye.

             

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:56pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            "You can't get anywhere until your MAC address is in the system"

            look everyone a moron!

             

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      John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:11am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      a VPN will NOT help you: they're monitoring by both amount and TYPE of traffic


      If you're using a VPN, then they cannot tell what type of traffic it is (aside from it being a VPN connection). So they're going to accuse you of piracy for simply using a VPN? They're going to accuse you of piracy just for using a lot of bandwidth? Just for using bittorrent?

      Since all of those things are legal and widely used for noninfringing purposes, what you're claiming they'll do is even more offensive than what they're claiming they'll do.

       

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        Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:37am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        The only problem is, it is at the modem level. While his reasoning is quite wrong that they will be monitoring you server side...if you are suspected of piracy (aka using a torrent client) they will send a firmware "update" to the modem that exploits current vulnerabilities in the Java Script API.

        That being said, no matter how you try to surf the web on a totally different ISP....that JavaScript implementation of code downloaded by the modem you obligatorily rent from Comcast stays on your computer.

         

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          out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:49am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          First, if you hadn't mixed in a mistaken assertion, I'd have READ more. You're wrong but ALSO RIGHT.

          "The only problem is, it is at the modem level." -- THIS is important, and I WISH you'd highlighted it instead of saying they'd run Java on MY computer; that's not possible. But now I have yet more to worry about, so thanks, though I'm pretty sure my modem (which I own even if they modified the firmware), won't be annoying me as you imply.

          Here you're wrong again, though: "they will be monitoring you server side" -- THEY ARE, dang it! I can call up a page to tell me how much I've downloaded. The TOS state this and that which outline means, and they're more comprehensive than you've considered, not least because must work for all connections, not just Windows.

           

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            Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:18am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            They would not even have to necessarily run Java on your computer. The average user would not know to turn it off if they wished, it does not mean the code cannot be directly injected to the API. The malicious code would be injected to the API stored on your computer directly as packets come flying in.

            "they will be monitoring you server side"

            *they will not be monitoring you server side....

            My guess is they will, but only for BitTorrent Trafic. The redirection of your traffic won't be server side...that is the JavaScript code injected to the API doing that.

             

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              Rich, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:10am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

              You do realize that Java and Javascript have NOTHING to do with each other, right?

               

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                Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:07pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                I realize that now, but my point is that a code can be used in the firmware of a rented modem to inject a code or virus that redirects you to their anti-piracy page. The only reason I can generally speculate that thought (outside my Jav/JavaScript debacle) is because the 6 strikes policy from Comcast makes it clear that no matter where you go outside of Comcast's reach to connect to the internet, you still get redirected to Comcast's anti-piracy page.

                 

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          John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:03am

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          The only problem is, it is at the modem level.


          I'm not sure why this matters. By the time any data reaches your modem, you've already encrypted it with the VPN. In terms of exploiting a system or monitoring, there is no difference between the modem and the ISPs servers.

          Your accusation of hacking is possible, but no different than any random website could do, and just as illegal. Personally, I doubt that Comcast is doing this -- it doesn't really gain them anything and exposes them to liability -- but I've seen stupider moves *cough*Sony*cough*, so who knows?

           

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            Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:10am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            I grant you that awesomely wonderful argument. A lot of internet users and causal users of BitTorrent clients won't remotely know how to use a VPN and in hindsight I should have pointed that not everyone would know to do that in general.

            "it doesn't really gain them anything and exposes them to liability -- but I've seen stupider moves *cough*Sony*cough*, so who knows?"

            True, I think this may be the internet implementation of the Sony BMG Rootkit scandal...only Comcast being the hackers.

             

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            Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:22am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

            One thing I forgot to mention. Comcast makes you rent their modem. That is why it may be how they can claim they can still get a signal while the malicious JavaScript code redirects you to a fake 403.

            All one has to do is use command prompt and send a nibble of a ping to any website and see where the return signal comes from. Good old command prompt :-)

             

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              John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:28am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

              Comcast didn't require me to use their modem. I provided my own.

               

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                Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:50am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                I can only assume what you can tel me John, but I also know that most customers do not buy their modems.

                 

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              Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:13am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

              "Comcast makes you rent their modem. "

              No Comcast does NOT require you to rent their modem. I am on Comcast, and I am using my modem. All of my clients, residential and commercial purchased their own modems and do not rent them from Comcast (Renting a $30 modem for $8 a month is not smart).

               

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                Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:09pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                How much of the average population actually realizes that they are allowed to buy their own modem and use it instead of the one provided by the ISP?

                 

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                  Mr. Applegate, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:57pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

                  I don't know the answer to that question. I do know one of my clients just asked me last week if they had to rent a modem off of Comcast, and I gave the Hell No answer right away and sent the to Wally world.

                  You don't have to use their cable boxes either (except for On Demand and other features that require two way communication...) They will provide Smart Cards free of charge (1 per device)

                   

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:29am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      You really have no idea how VPN's work do you? VPN's set up an encrypted tunnel so that all traffic get's routed through the tunnel as if you were locally connected on the network you are connecting through. Anyone accessing the traffic at the switch sees nothing but encrypted gibberish as it's passing through the tunnel. They can't inject anything into that stream. They could block the VPN traffic altogether. But VPN's are used in business all the time for very good reasons. If they start just blocking traffic because it happens to be running through an encrypted VPN they they are going to have serious issues to deal with.

       

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        Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:53am

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        The injection comes from the modem through a firmware "update". VPN or not the malicious code is stored at the OSI level on the Java API on the average computer. The code will redirect wherever you search regardless of which ISP or VPN you are connected to.

         

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        •  
          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 4:45pm

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          Good luck on getting them to get me to update my firmware. Let me tell you a little story. I bought a modem from one of the ISPs. The router I bought was my own. I made the mistake of updating the modem firmware. Suddenly my net didn't work anymore. When I called tech help, they were willing to sell me a new router/modem but said they couldn't help me on the drop out of the modem. I then said the magic words of it was working before, now it isn't, due to your firmware update. Tell me the cure or I'm gone to cable internet.

          Rather quickly I was transferred to another tech desk who informed me the basic settings shipped with the router were different than those in the firmware. Knowing that I could then go in and fix the problem.

          Right or wrong, to this day, I will not again upgrade firmware from these idiots.

          The router/modem I now use isn't theirs. It's mine that I purchased at a store with my own money, driving there on my own gas and vehicle. It doesn't belong to the ISP. If I were to upgrade firmware it wouldn't do any good as it is not their equipment and they don't support it.

           

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        •  
          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 7:03pm

          Re: Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

          "The injection comes from the modem through a firmware 'update'. VPN or not the malicious code is stored at the OSI level on the Java API on the average computer."

          There's no way for the modem to inject malicious code into an encrypted VPN connection. Anything inserted by the modem would effectively become garbage data.

           

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    •  
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:48am

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      As you read the details of their TOS, keep in mind a lot of that stuff is written to SCARE you into compliance just like the annoying FBI warning crammed into the beginning of commercially made DVD's that threatens you with thousands of dollars in fines and years of jail time just for making a copy of your DVD. There is a lot of low hanging fruit out there that they can easily pick. And when they pick some and make public examples of them it will scare others. The people that KNOW how the stuff works, what their techniques are and how to avoid the pitfalls take a lot more effort to stop. Those people are usually not worth the effort that it will take to stop them especially when it is easy for them to find people to make examples of.

       

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    •  
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:55pm

      Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

      " NOR of course will the ISP permit unknown MAC addresses"

      Which, of course, is why you have to register any new computer you buy with them. So they have a record of the MAC.

      Seriously, does not knowing anything about a subject ever stop you from telling people all about a subject?

       

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        Rikuo (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:07pm

        Re: Re: So... To all pirates who think 6 Strikes can't work...

        "" NOR of course will the ISP permit unknown MAC addresses"

        Which, of course, is why you have to register any new computer you buy with them. So they have a record of the MAC. "

        Really? I've never had to do that, and I've had FIVE ISPs.My first was an over-the-air thing used a proprietary modem (do a Google Image search for Ripwave modem). Clearwire was the same type, again, proprietary modem. The next one I had after that was fibre, then the last two were DSL through a phone line.
        At no point did I have to register my MAC. Maybe the first three did that automatically with their propriety devices, but the two most recent ones? Nope. I received a login from the ISP that works on any modem. Hell, the router I'm using now for the current ISP is actually the one from the last ISP (they never bothered collecting it). At no point have I been told to find the MAC for my computers. On this connection, I've so far had two desktops, two laptops, an Android tablet, a PS3, an Xbox 360, an iPad, two or three Kindles, and a 3DS. Not once have I had to register them, whatever that means.

         

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:12am

    I suspect this is just the start. Eventually, you'll be getting a strike for visiting a page or viewing a youtube video that gets taken down via a DMCA notice. Everyone in the country will have throttled internet; a big ISP's wet dream

     

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:12am

    Well for those that support these type of actions, I can not wait for you to be accused falsely (as I'm sure many will) and lose your internet. Who will call Mike a pirate then?

     

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    •  
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:33am

      Re:

      we'll never know because they won't be able to come online and call him said pirate

       

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    •  
      icon
      That One Guy (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:40am

      Re:

      Oh they'll still do so, most of them seem to be the 'those in authority are always right, and can never make mistakes' kind, so I'm sure they'll be happy to continue to hand money to the people hosing them over, all the while continuing to claim that such mistakes never happen.

       

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  •  
    identicon
    AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:13am

    Next up:
    - "For a small (large) additional fee you too can purchase a special 'executive privacy' account from your ISP, This special account will mask your IP even from your own ISP - because you deserve the best 'security' money can buy."

    Anyone think I'm being too cynical?

     

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    •  
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      Jeff (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:18am

      Re:

      not cynical enough... not nearly enough...

       

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    •  
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      Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:35am

      Re:

      Anyone think I'm being too cynical?

      Nope. Nicholas Merrill is looking to start an ISP that is encrypted end-to-end and even the ISP itself wouldn't be able to snoop on the user. Plus they would fight against the government's ever increasing surveillance outside the rule of law, instead of caving in like pretty much every other ISP.

      https://secure.dslreports.com/shownews/New-ISP-Promises-No-Surveillance-119205

       

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        identicon
        AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:17am

        Re: Re:

        Nice if it happens. I certainly hope so.

         

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      •  
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:37pm

        Re: Re:

        They are gonna get hit so hard by laws somewhere around treason in severity, for not supplying three letter soups with investigative tools under some of the "counter-terrorism"-acts. Not gonna get off the ground legally in any way, shape or form.

         

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          Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:59pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          They are gonna get hit so hard by laws somewhere around treason in severity, for not supplying three letter soups with investigative tools under some of the "counter-terrorism"-acts. Not gonna get off the ground legally in any way, shape or form.

          Maybe. Nicholas Merrill is the guy who spent six years fighting the government's use of National Security Letters and the accompanying gag orders and won. He would certainly be aware of what fighting against the government entails.

          https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100810/16414110575.shtml

          Apparently Calyx also has some pretty good talent on board ranging from former NSA technical director Brian Snow to the Tor Project's Jacob Appelbaum.

           

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  •  
    icon
    Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:15am

    Dumb Pipes?

     

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      Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:25am

      Re: Dumb Pipes?

      Whoops. Note to self: Don't hint ENTER twice on subject line.


      Will these programs affect the standing of the ISP's as service providers since they are now actively monitoring for certain content and no longer are just "dumb pipes". Will this ultimately open themselves up to liability for the actions of their users?

      Could the legacy content gatekeepers turn around and use this against the ISP's if they don't continue to bow to their wishes in the future?

       

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        John Fenderson (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:13am

        Re: Re: Dumb Pipes?

        Will this ultimately open themselves up to liability for the actions of their users?


        No, the reason they're going along with this is because they get specific immunity from liability if they do so.

         

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          Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:34am

          Re: Re: Re: Dumb Pipes?

          No, the reason they're going along with this is because they get specific immunity from liability if they do so.

          Hmm. Figures.

          I wonder how that immunity works for a rights holder entity who isn't involved with the negotiations. Not sure how that immunity would extend those who are not party to this agreement.

           

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        •  
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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:40am

          Re: Re: Re: Dumb Pipes?

          It may be covered by certain contractual agreement to not be covered for liability pertaining to 6 Strikes, but the method in which they use therein can them liable.

           

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  •  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:20am

    This should be relatively easy to fight against.
    Claim that anyone who supports 6 Strikes is a witch. Of course they can't fight against such an accusation because then they would be a hypocrite.

     

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    •  
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:22am

      Re:

      Actually now that I think about it...some people seem to think putting something 'online' makes it a new idea, so why not the Salem Witch Trials?

       

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    •  
      identicon
      AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:30am

      Re:

      The trouble with fighting it is... $$$$ (I'd keep going but I ran out of dollar signs)

      Hmm, I wonder if anyone has a patent on 'a means of preventing the use of digital materials by redirecting or blocking the signal.' That could be worth something right about now.

       

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  •  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:24am

    Yes, because strike systems worked during the age of "Home Taping is Killing Music" and our mixtape-swapping parents.

    Have fun outlawing and striking trading disk drives, mates.

     

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  •  
    identicon
    out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:28am

    @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

    As you well know, my browser header and "email" address that I use are almost certainly uniquely identifying. That's why I keep it.

    I think such fraud is something both in your interest and that you're reasonably required to suppress. And having been asked, inaction would be aiding the fraud.

     

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    •  
      icon
      The Infamous Joe (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:38am

      Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

      Make an account: Problem solved.

      Anonymity works both ways.

       

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      •  
        identicon
        The Infamous Joe*, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:44am

        Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

        @ "The Infamous Joe"

        I'm the real out_of_the_blue.

        Any fool can duplicate your screen name; the rest is a bit difficult to determine. Do you wish me to start posting under your screen name? HMM? Do you support fraud, or only when it's directed against some people?

        Well, Mike has SOME responsibility to stop that. He does some with the identicons, but it's not foolproof, or if I don't protest.

         

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        •  
          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:35am

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          "Well, Mike has SOME responsibility to stop that. He does some with the identicons, but it's not foolproof, or if I don't protest."

          Actually, he has NO responsibility to stop that. Fraud is when someone steals your identity or portrays your actual person. Usually not your online persona. In this case, someone has made a mockery of your online person. (The irony is that you do that to yourself every time you post.)

          At the end of the day though, what was done and is being done is in no way illegal or wrong. I'd wager it falls under "parody" if anything, thereby making it perfectly legal.

          So by all means, keep shaking that fist at the screen and yelling at those clouds. It'll get you exactly to the same place that telling Mike to "do something about it" will. I'll give you a hint where that is, nowhere.

           

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        •  
          identicon
          Ruben, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:57am

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          What a fucking whiner.

          Make a goddamn account, bitchface. Mike has no responsibility to stop this activity.

           

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      •  
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:36am

        Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

        Does anyone else see the irony of in a obvious troll being trolled? I personally think it's pretty damned funny.

         

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        •  
          identicon
          AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:55am

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          I don't actually think of ootb as being a troll. He's more like that third cousin from the little town deep in the woods. The one with a squint who drools a lot and periodically bursts out in loud ribald limericks.

           

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      •  
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:45am

        Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

        What would be REALLY funny is if one of the others makes the account before he does. :)

         

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    •  
      identicon
      out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:40am

      Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

      And now a 2nd fraudster. I suggest you put the kibosh on fraud.

       

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      •  
        identicon
        out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:43am

        Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

        Apox on thee, sour wench of the interwebz!

        You have stolen my face, yet I shall return to reap a harvest sown of meager comments and loud, outspoken swill!

         

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      •  
        identicon
        out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:49am

        Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

        I second the motion. Kick this asshole out!

         

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        •  
          identicon
          out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:43am

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          That's only a first motion because Texas has a different time zone!

           

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          •  
            identicon
            out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:49am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

            I propose a day to be ootb day where all posts are from ootb. Today could be that day if it is so desired. Any ootb's to second the motion?

             

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            •  
              identicon
              out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:52am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

              I thoroughly enjoy this idea.

              SECONDED

              February 28th will go down in history as OOTB day. A day to celebrate the festivities of relentless, incoherent rabbling

               

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              •  
                identicon
                out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:56am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

                Actually, now that I think about it let me propose April 1. Seems only fitting. Maybe Mike (or one of the Tim's might even be better) could post a complete article "from ootb". That would be epic. :)

                 

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                •  
                  identicon
                  out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:22am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

                  I think February 29 would be the most logical day to celebrate this every year!

                   

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              •  
                icon
                Rikuo (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:15am

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

                Fucking THIRDED. I LIKE this idea.

                In fact, let's go one better. Have the article's author be Average_Joe. Make something up, write it in his style, and make sure he spends half the time saying "It's the FUCKING LAW!!!! And you're DEMONS for violating it, no matter how insane it is!"

                Then we in the comments, will take turns writing comments, make them as absurd as possible (or for simplicity's sake, simply copy and paste what they've said before in other articles). One person can start of as "Blue." Then "bob" will reply to him, and so on.

                 

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                •  
                  identicon
                  Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:21am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

                  EXACTLY. And it's a good thing we came up with this now. Just enough time between now and April 1, that a bunch of people will have not seen or remember this little thread such that they go "WTF!?!" when they see it. Uh Mike... I hope you are taking notes. :)

                   

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            •  
              identicon
              out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:11am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

              I'd rather pick my nose in front of a judge.

              Unless, of course, it's a nose-picking contest.




              Take a loopy tour of Techdirt.com! You always end up at same place!
              http://techdirt.com/
              Where Mike sez: uploader + file host + links site + downloader = perfectly "legal" symbiotic piracy.

               

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      •  
        identicon
        out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 6:20pm

        Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

        WHY WON'T YOU DEBATE ME WARRRRRGH

         

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        •  
          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 6:41pm

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          Now your stealing AJ's thing.

           

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      Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:43am

      Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

      I think such fraud is something both in your interest and that you're reasonably required to suppress. And having been asked, inaction would be aiding the fraud.

      That's not really fraud, blue. It's what you get when you choose not to register an account. Anyone can duplicate your username at will when you choose to comment without an account. And you would have to be as dumb as a box of rocks if you believe otherwise. Techdirt has no obligation to rectify something that is of your own doing, regardless if you ask or not.

       

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      •  
        identicon
        Gwiz, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:47am

        Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

        @ "Gwiz": DUPLICATING A RESPONSE. Gosh, it's a common notion to think your screen name is protected. WELL IT AIN'T, SEE?

        I'm the real out_of_the_blue.

        Any fool can duplicate your screen name; the rest is a bit difficult to determine. Do you wish me to start posting under your screen name? HMM? Do you support fraud, or only when it's directed against some people?

        Well, Mike has SOME responsibility to stop that. He does some with the identicons, but it's not foolproof, or if I don't protest.

         

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          icon
          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:52am

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          Stop using the "at" symbol to communicate and click on the damn link that says "view in thread"...you are making yourself even less credible than you already are...and trust me you are setting a new low bar for yourself every time you do that.

           

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            out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:07am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

            @ Wally: Stop telling me what to do. Who the hell do you think you are? Do you think I'll obey? What a little tyrant.

            The "@" is perfectly cromulent on teh internets.

             

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            •  
              icon
              Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:21am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

              Stop telling me what to do. Who the hell do you think you are? Do you think I'll obey? What a little tyrant.


              Kind of funny coming after you telling (oh I'm sorry - "strongly suggesting with veiled threats" I should say) what Techdirt should do:

              I think such fraud is something both in your interest and that you're reasonably required to suppress. And having been asked, inaction would be aiding the fraud.
              and
              I suggest you put the kibosh on fraud.

               

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            •  
              icon
              Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:58am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

              I am not trying to tell you to do anything blue, I am simply stating you do not have to use it. The lines indicate exactly who responds to what comment on the thread. It is afar easier to look at those lines than to use the "at" symbol all the time. My only intent is to save you time.

               

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        •  
          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:53am

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          If this is fraud then what do you call the MPAA overstating the amount of pirated files on the Internet by 300 bloody percent?

          What you gonna do now, blue, threaten to leave the site?

           

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        •  
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          Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:57am

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          Lol. Go right ahead and comment with my moniker all you want, blue.

          You won't get my icon nor will those comments show up in my profile history.


          Well, Mike has SOME responsibility to stop that. He does some with the identicons, but it's not foolproof, or if I don't protest.

          No blue. The responsibility is on you. Get an account if such things bother you. Just because you CHOOSE not to doesn't place the onus on Techdirt.

           

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          •  
            identicon
            out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:09am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

            Gee, when proven flatly wrong and the obvious drawback pointed out, you just brush it aside.

            But no, I won't be taking your advice to commit fraud.

             

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            •  
              icon
              Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:28am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

              Gee, when proven flatly wrong and the obvious drawback pointed out, you just brush it aside.

              I'm sorry. When did you prove anything wrong? I must have missed that.

              Not sure what "obvious drawback" you are referring to, really. If you mean the whole "fraud" part then I didn't "brush that aside" at all. It was just to ridiculous to comment on any further, that's all.

               

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          icon
          Togashi (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:21am

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          Gosh, it's a common notion to think your screen name is protected. WELL IT AIN'T, SEE?

          Go register an account with the same screen name and avatar as Gwiz which also posts to his comment history, then I'll believe that there's inadequate protection on the names.

           

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          out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:52am

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          No fool can duplicate your stupidity.

           

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          xebikr (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:48pm

          Re: Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

          Do you really not see the difference between your 'Gwiz' and his? Even using Lynx you should see the '(profile)' hyperlink. Make an account, and that '(profile)' could be yours!

           

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        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:42am

        Re: Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

        I think such fraud is something both in your interest and that you're reasonably required to suppress. And having been asked, inaction would be aiding the fraud.

        How MAFIAA like from the troll, expect everyone else to deal with their problems instead of doing what they can to deal with them.

         

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      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:46am

      Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

      I don't need an admin to tell which ootb is real.

       

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    •  
      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:39am

      @ Mike: I ask you to state that the other Anonymous Cowards are all false.

      I think such fraud is something both in your interest and that you're reasonably required to suppress. And having been asked, inaction would be aiding the fraud.

       

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      PaulT (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 2:28am

      Re: @ Mike: I ask you to state that the first out_of_the_blue is false.

      I'll repeat what I just said in another article:

      -----------

      Erm, well done, if you're the real ootb, you've just identified the reason why people should log into the site since there's no other way to identify a consistent username. Either use a login, or accept that your anonymity means that you can be spoofed - and that whatever idiocy is spouted by your doppelganger, it doesn't seem out of place enough for anyone to have noticed.

      -------------

      "As you well know, my browser header and "email" address that I use are almost certainly uniquely identifying. That's why I keep it."

      No they're not. Comments here do not require authentication unless you have an account, so any email address can be used by anyone (and given the quotes you used around email, you're presumably not even using a real one). Your headers are meaningless, and will change depending on time, location, browser and any number of other factors - so they're not even the same between session you're using. As ever, you're technically clueless, and still don't know the definition of "fraud". You want to be uniquely identified? Create and account or STFU.

      Plus, you realise you're advocating censorship and the removal of anonymous comments just because your little feelings were hurt? Poor baby. The internet isn't your personal plaything - GTFO if you don't like it.

       

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    Gee, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:40am

    I wish I lived in the turd hole of the US. Just so they could accuse me, so I could then contact them and say "I dont use torrents, it unsafe and easy to track what I'm downloading. I only download from cyberlocker sites and usenet."
    LOL, I wonder what their response would be?

     

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      That One Guy (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:48am

      Re:

      "The totally neutral and unbiased company that sent us the strikes against your account is never wrong, but if you wish to claim that they are, you are welcome to pay a totally neutral and unbiased arbitration company to take up your case, where you will be told how wrong you are and fined anyway. Have a nice day!"

      Probably something along those lines.

       

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      identicon
      RD, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:57am

      Re:

      I wish I lived in the turd hole of the US. Just so they could accuse me, so I could then contact them and say "I dont use torrents, it unsafe and easy to track what I'm downloading. I only download from cyberlocker sites and usenet."
      LOL, I wonder what their response would be?"

      Thats easy. You would be branded a pirate because those things you listed are considered (to them) de facto havens for piracy.

       

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      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:28am

      Re:

      There are legal torrents. Are they sending warnings for those as well?

       

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    Baldaur Regis (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:43am

    Bets now being taken on:

    1) when malicious popups and/or spearphishing emails will start using the CAS forms;

    2) when P2P software will start injecting random IP addresses into swarms;

    3) when the first lawsuit will be filed on this royal cockup.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:52am

      Re: Bets now being taken on:

      1) Already done, if past history is any lesson.
      2) Years, P2P software is a pretty fractured market
      3) As soon as the EFF gets enough donations together.

       

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:57am

      Re: Bets now being taken on:

      4. Comcast gets sued on grounds of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

      5. Comcast gets walled garden failing to learn what AOL had roughly 18 years ago and subsequently wrote an 83 page manual for help desk personnel to keep its customers...

      6. Comcast gets charged with violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

       

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    identicon
    Wolfy, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:55am

    And to think we could've prevented this problem by restricting the number of lawyers...

    Is there a bounty on them, yet?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:03am

    So, Comcast says "you 'stole' from us so we'll 'steal' from you", even though they have no evidence or convictions of you stealing NBC content, and even though it's illegal to take the law into your own hands and do something like that. Just ask O.J. Simpson, even if the guy did steal all his stuff, robbing them at gun point to get it back is still illegal.

    Oh, and the $35 neutral arbitrator fee? They AREN'T neutral, arbitrators almost always side with the corporation over the individual, because the corporation is going to keep on getting into arbitration cases, and the corporation picks the arbitrator, so if the arbitrator sides against the corporation Comcast they lose money when Comcast dumps them for a more sympathetic arbitrator.

     

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    Indy, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:12am

    CAS

    So I'll just cancel my account if/when I get these.

    If they want to not have my money, this is a great way to lose a customer.

     

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:42am

      Re: CAS

      You are better off just canceling your internet account through Comcast now.

       

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      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:25am

      Re: CAS

      I intend to cancel my account even though I'd probably never get one of these. I don't like them inspecting my internet speech so closely. It has a chilling effect on what I say when I know the ISP is watching every word.

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:51am

    I love this. The noose tightens and tightens. And the freeloaders scream louder and louder. You brought this on yourselves. Enjoy!

     

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      Lowestofthekeys (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:54am

      Re:

      Hm? If by "scream louder", you mean "bypass through VPN or proxy" then yes, we are screaming very loud.

       

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        AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:30am

        Re: Re:

        Speak for yourself, I've been using bittorrent to access my Khan Academy course lessons. The last thing I want is to reduce my speed even further via VPN or proxy. It's amazing the things some people assume - including that all internet use equals 'piracy'.

         

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:40am

          Re: Re: Re:

          " It's amazing the things some people assume - including that all internet use equals 'piracy'."

          A correction if I may....

          It's amazing the things some people assume - including that all BitTorrent and P2P use equals 'piracy'.

          ;-)

           

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      identicon
      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:23am

      Re:

      I never pirate, EVER, but I am still dropping Comcast over this. The noose tightens around their neck.

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:05am

    Comcast has been throttling bt users for years.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:20am

    The ISPs aren't police. They have contracts with their customers. Contracts are not one way streets. When they begin making their services slow after promising certain speeds or block users from all sites, the customers can then sue them for breach of contract.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:24am

      Re:

      The ISPs aren't police. They have contracts with their customers. Contracts are not one way streets. When they begin making their services slow after promising certain speeds or block users from all sites, the customers can then sue them for breach of contract.

      Big talk. Go ahead, you first. Make sure you let us know how that works for you.

       

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        identicon
        AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:37am

        Re: Re:

        From what you say here and elsewhere it seems you believe that the person with the biggest gun is always right regardless of the details, and that all dictators are right because the law is always on their side. You could go far in a place like Cuba...

         

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:26am

      Re:

      Comcast is owned by NBC Universal. The evidence in bias is overwhelming because of that.

       

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:09am

          Re: Re: Re:

          That is not the way to correct someone. If you wish to be taken seriously by me, you have to be polite about minor mistakes.

           

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            identicon
            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:30am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Wally, there's no point in being POLITE to you, especially regarding your MANY mistakes. Saying they're minor would be akin to saying someone covered entirely in third degree burns is suffering a "minor skin condition at the moment".

            People, Mr. Applegate/PaulT/myself, have tried to be polite to you and point out some of your errors and "minor mistakes" in the past, and rather recently, and you insist on being wrong, begin insulting others (and labeling everyone who questions/challenges/corrects you as "trolls") and so on and so forth.

            And in this thread alone, I've seen you do nothing but post things that were so blatantly false/incorrect, I honestly just bit my tongue rather than ATTEMPT to correct you. Lest I be accused of trolling Wally the all knowing.

            Look kid, you have a degree in psychology (and I highly doubt that, or you wouldn't commit many of the grave errors you do, as they relate to psychology studies). That doesn't mean you know jack about technology. At all. Studying for your Comp TA blah blah blah, same thing. You're studying the basics. You have no understanding of the more intricate things, much less even basic grasp of some of the ideas.

            For all our sake's, stop trying to be an expert on everything. I told you the other day, "I don't know" is an acceptable and even respect earning response to give. Or better yet, silence. If you don't know, don't talk. But either option is better than spewing misinformation. And again, if you don't like being corrected, politely or otherwise, stfu and stop talking about things you know nothing about. It's sad/annoying. If you don't like how people respond to your nonsense, kindly get off the internet. You're obviously too thin skinned to survive on it.

             

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              Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:37am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Youre a stalker troll, Mr. Applegate was a proxy, and I respect PaulT's opinion to the highest regard and if there is anyone that I owe an apology to to any remarks made pertaining to trolling...the only person you named from that useless and rather pointless argument I will ever owe an apology to is in fact PauT.

              Once again, you are being hypocritical in hashing up useless arguments that nobody else but you cared about.

              End of Story.

               

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                identicon
                Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:57pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                Yeah, Wally, I totally stalk you. [rolls eyes, does jerk off motion indicating he, by which I mean I, think you're a jerk off]

                Wally, I know more about you and your family than I know about some of my personal best friends. Why? Because you have this weird thing about sharing all your life details on a website where they have no reason to be shared.

                I'm not hashing up any arguments. Merely pointing out, that it's funny that you would ask others to be polite in correcting you, when history shows the moment anyone even tries to correct you (and most do so politely) you get on the defensive in the extreme and begin with the name calling and insult hurling.

                Also, just fyi, I don't stalk you. I'm on this site regularly and was long before you showed up. I go out of my way to NOT reply to you, because frankly you annoy me to the point of dislike and also because responding to you, intelligently and politely, is an exercise in futility ("Wally is never wrong, even when he clearly and demonstrably is").

                But yeah, I'm a troll stalker who goes out of their way to correct you or point out to others how replying to you, regarding anything non-Apple and technology related, is a waste of time. You're worse than some of the trolls. Goal post shift regularly, what you mean to say changes regularly, etc.

                You sir are a child who can't handle being wrong or admitting his mistakes. End of story.

                 

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                •  
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                  Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:46pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  "Also, just fyi, I don't stalk you. I'm on this site regularly and was long before you showed up. I go out of my way to NOT reply to you, because frankly you annoy me to the point of dislike and also because responding to you, intelligently and politely, is an exercise in futility ("Wally is never wrong, even when he clearly and demonstrably is")."

                  Did you expect some sort of reaction out of me to your response?

                  "Look kid, you have a degree in psychology (and I highly doubt that, or you wouldn't commit many of the grave errors you do, as they relate to psychology studies). That doesn't mean you know jack about technology."

                  I might not know too much about technology at all. I am never afraid to admit that. It is a hobby of mine and as a result of my numerous mistakes (which you love pointing out at an obsessive compulsive level/rate trolling) I am taking classes on it and learning new things I never knew about. You need to seek treatment. The human being of a psychologist in me hopes that you will seek treatment.

                  "But yeah, I'm a troll stalker who goes out of their way to correct you or point out to others how replying to you, regarding anything non-Apple and technology related, is a waste of time. You're worse than some of the trolls. Goal post shift regularly, what you mean to say changes regularly, etc."

                  You say you are not trying to hash up old arguments, but then you blatantly try to provoke me into them. I myself have witnessed a pattern in myself to respond to old, off subject arguments, and I am working to correct that.

                  "For all our sake's, stop trying to be an expert on everything. I told you the other day, "I don't know" is an acceptable and even respect earning response to give."

                  Once again I point out that you do not do the same for me that which you request from me. That statement is purely FTFY. Respect swings both ways and you have not shown nearly as much respect as I can...I am willing to admit, however, that it is very bad for you that I am the one pointing that out because I know exactly how much respect you have given me....none.

                  "Wally, I know more about you and your family than I know about some of my personal best friends."

                  LOL seriously??? In your words "Citation Please"...and do not cite any articles on Techdirt because you know I talk about my family on occasion. Funny thing is, you know nothing of me or my family and friends outside of what I said on Techdirt.

                  "But yeah, I'm a troll stalker who goes out of their way to correct you or point out to others how replying to you, regarding anything non-Apple and technology related, is a waste of time."

                  So does that gain you any credibility whatsoever? nope....
                  I do try to have conversations with people, but honestly, If I assert my claims, at least it tells me and other I am sure of myself and self confident....which is the least I can say compared to you....you don't have much self confidence, otherwise you would not be singling me out to prove that you're correct.

                  "But yeah, I'm a troll stalker..."

                  Glad you admit that at least. Honestly, nobody really cares when you correct people the way you do. For once, I got a good, valid, non-trolling response from out_of_the_blue today because of how you pointed all this crap out last time.....which I worked on and acted on to correct myself.

                  Yet once again here you are saying that you are not a troll and that you are not hashing up old arguments. Then, when you see me paying your message to me forward to those who repeatedly do it, you call me out with the usual crap. Believe it or not, that is the exact behavior that makes you a troll, and a stalker and a hypocrite. I am the only person you go after...even when I am correct, or only mildly wrong about the minor details.

                   

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                    identicon
                    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 3:48pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    You're so hilarious it's almost sad. That you think my world revolves around "trolling" you of all people is sad. Sad as in you really do believe your own hype and your ego can't let things simply be I don't like you or the fact that you spread misinformation/incorrect information.

                    And I guess you missed the sarcasm on the stalker part. Also, you're not the only person I "go after". I'm harsh and correct bob, out_of_the_blue and numerous others. I can't stand stupidity.

                    As for the "citation please", I've never said that, at least attribute things to me I've said. And by I know more about you I meant I know you and your wife (supposedly) suffer from Asberger's. I know you got banned from Ars for a (supposedly) bullshit reason. I know you were dropped on your head as a child, combine that with changes in the weather and it makes you have emotional breakdowns on Techdirt. I know quite a bit more shit about you that I would rather not know and which has no business being posted on Techdirt at all.

                    I'd put the definition of a "troll" up for you to see/read, but I have a feeling it might do harm to that ego of yours. What with your fanboy ways and all. If I wanted to "drag up old things", Wally my child, I'd post EVERY SINGLE INCORRECT statement/"fact" you've ever made on this site. Truth be told I could, since I suffer from insomnia and don't have much to do late at night, but suffice it to say I have no inclination to wade through the minefield that is "Wally's words of inaccuracy and stupidity" again. Once, per item, is more than enough.

                    And you are aware that if you really think I'm a troll, you'd do well to ignore my comments/not feed me. As for respect, it's earned. You haven't, nor will you I doubt, earn mine. As for "it swings both ways", you seem to have me confused with someone who cares about what people think of me. (Newsflash: I don't. At all.) So stuff your respect in a sack, as George Costanza would say.

                     

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                      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 4:31pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      "As for the "citation please", I've never said that, at least attribute things to me I've said. And by I know more about you I meant I know you and your wife (supposedly) suffer from Asberger's. I know you got banned from Ars for a (supposedly) bullshit reason. I know you were dropped on your head as a child, combine that with changes in the weather and it makes you have emotional breakdowns on Techdirt. I know quite a bit more shit about you that I would rather not know and which has no business being posted on Techdirt at all."

                      Wow!! That explains why an article from way back in December 2012 ended up ended up getting a sudden, random, rating of 5.5 in the Essential reading column under the "Hot Topics" pane for a bit.

                      You ask me numerous times to provide links when I tell you about things I have experienced.

                      "Look kid, you have a degree in psychology (and I highly doubt that, or you wouldn't commit many of the grave errors you do, as they relate to psychology studies)"

                      Do I sense a hypocritical duality and a proxy?


                      "Because you have this weird thing about sharing all your life details on a website where they have no reason to be shared."

                      Citation:
                      http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130227/14231422143/comcast-we-wont-termina te-your-account-under-six-strikes-well-just-block-every-single-website.shtml#c3944

                      Comment:
                      Ther e goes your theory about me not having Asperger's Syndrome. That itself is a classic symptom.


                      Oh and I know you and the AC above you are the same person:

                      "You're so hilarious it's almost sad. That you think my world revolves around "trolling" you of all people is sad."

                      I find it particularly hard not to laugh and cry (from frustration) as a psychologist knowing full well that either you are paranoid as hell and there is nothing I can do for you (because believe it or not, you piece of shit, I do care about your well being.

                      Or you have personality disorders beyond your control and seriously need some sort of psycho social attention to alleviate your issue. The issue I see in that is this. You are projecting how you are treated in real life onto the one person in the entire world who would actually give a shit about you and, pay attention to you and your troubled life....a psychologist.

                       

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                    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:04pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                    Look, he was actually trying to be nice and give you some constructive criticism. A troll you are not and I think your trying to be on the right side of things, but so much of what you vigorously say is so blatantly ignorant and I don't mean that as an insult. It's ok not to know, but don't pretend to be an authority on things you don't know anything about. Instead, ask or just watch and learn.

                     

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                      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:36pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      Can't help but feel like I just watched a tragic train wreck in slow motion in reading this thread.

                       

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                        Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:14pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                        Well said. I should point out though that every time he sees me in high commentary nunbers, he always repeats himself in the same context of "Wally is wrong all the time".

                        Whether he is trolling or not is quite debatable, but I do know that he's been "pushing my buttons" since I got banned from Ars Technica (long story).

                        He fails quite miserably on the fact that he thinks I am either "wrong" because I make a minor mistake in terminology and attacks that in stead of looking for the point....Or he does this crap and tries to tell everyone how wrong I am when most everyone else doesn't seem to mind the way I think outside of the proverbial box.

                        You may be asking me why I am telling you all this. I will tell you:

                        He is a troll. Poor home life or not, he is a troll. He is projecting his issues and personal life by selecting a seemingly weaker target, and gets his frustrations out by imposing his "authority" over his target because he does not get to do that in his own life. He is acting like a bully in that regard. 99.9% of all bullies and trolls like him stem from a bad home life. So while I cannot blame him for outing his frustrations on "weaker" targets in such a way, I can blame him and his actions for how he is acting here...in stead of getting out and seeking treatment or counsel.

                         

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                      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:21pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                      "Yeah, Wally, I totally stalk you. [rolls eyes, does jerk off motion indicating he, by which I mean I, think you're a jerk off]"

                      I hardly think that is remotely being nice either...how about you?

                       

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              Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:48pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              +1 insightful. Wally is an insufferable douchenozzle. I commend your patience. Or as "Dr" Wally spells it: 'patients'.

               

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:51pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            That is not the way to correct someone. If you wish to be taken seriously by me, you have to be polite about minor mistakes.

            Suck it. "Dr." Wally. How's that?

             

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        identicon
        AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:42am

        Re: Re:

        Actually NBC is owned by Comcast, but that doesn't make your point any less valid.

         

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          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:15am

          Re: Re: Re:

          But it does make him an idiot for continuing to insist it was the other way around even after being told.

           

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            Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:29am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Does that mean you have to treat people like shit for while correcting them?

            Your correction was extremely rude and I politely ask that you look at the time stamps as to when I was corrected vs when I made my minor mistake.

            I repeatedly said it without being corrected until now and if you had actually looked at the time stamps concerning the mistakes I was making, you would notice that AB was the first to correct me where I would notice the correction.

             

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              Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:21pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              Does that mean you have to treat people like shit for while correcting them?

              Your correction was extremely rude and I politely ask that you look at the time stamps as to when I was corrected vs when I made my minor mistake.

              I repeatedly said it without being corrected until now and if you had actually looked at the time stamps concerning the mistakes I was making, you would notice that AB was the first to correct me where I would notice the correction.


              More bullshit from "Dr." Wally.

              Wally Post # 165: Comcast is in fact owned by NBC Universal and the Six Strikes agreement pushed by the industry left out the implementation of methods involving how to employ the agreement.

              However since we all know Comcast is owned by NBC Universal, it is fairly safe to assume that by simply employing a method that merely cripples the use of the World Wide Web to the point of permanent redirection regardless, but will not cut off basic services would get around the whole "No cutting off the connection completely" agreement.


              My post #177: Corrects the moron

              Wally post #198: Repeats his stupidity

              AB post #215: corrects Wally the dope again.

              And the point isn't even that you are an idiot. That's a given. The point is you continue to lie and cover up and talk out your ass time and time again. Worse yet, you're like some sort of annoying anal fungus that is almost impossible to get rid of.

               

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:33am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Thank you AB for being polite and non-trolling about it and I will be sure to correct that mistake in the future :-)

           

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      out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:48am

      Re: @ "Contracts are not one way streets."

      You've clearly not read a recent one. -- Or perhaps can't understand legalities. -- Legal minds have EVERY conceivable loophole sewn up. The one I read says specifically that it CAN throttle speeds AND block you as they wish. Anything not explicitly covered is left to their sole discretion.

      NOW you people begin to see why cable companies should be treated as "common carriers" that can't discriminate for types of traffic, as the FTC wished, NOT as "information services" that can. Bureaucratic definitions matter. REGULATING corporations is NECESSARY. All that old-time law existed precisely because needed for the common good.

      You'll also all one day regret not heeding my warnings about Google. Corporate behavior is as predictable as that wasps will sting you at every chance.

       

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        Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:24am

        Re: Re: @ "Contracts are not one way streets."

        " The one I read says specifically that it CAN throttle speeds AND block you as they wish. Anything not explicitly covered is left to their sole discretion."

        You just stated the loophole. The agreement between the industries in question specifically states they cannot cut off the connection to your internet. It never said anything about how to implement the anti-piracy measures. So as long as you stay connected, they are good to go. They can however redirect you to their anti-piracy, propaganda spewing website.

        Comcast must have figured that all they have to do is simply keep their traffic going to either their website or to a 403. The redirect at the server level is not illegal one bit as long as it is not permanent. That's all fine and dandy. However, the way the policies of their (Comcast's) implementation of it is not on the server side at all.

        The only way one could permanently redirect traffic is if one injected code at the OSI level. Comcast's policy indicate in plain language that no matter where the customer connects.....even if it isn't through a Comcast ISP....their traffic will be rerouted to their servers. That is a huge violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

         

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:32am

    Why is the ISP violating my privacy in the first place?

    Does the Telcos monitor phone calls and if Talk about a recent movie or have music playing the background does the operator cut in or do they cut my phone service?

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:54am

      Re:

      Why is the ISP violating my privacy in the first place?

      Does the Telcos monitor phone calls and if Talk about a recent movie or have music playing the background does the operator cut in or do they cut my phone service?


      No but Google will mine your email for keywords and bombard you with targeted advertising.

       

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        AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:01am

        Re: Re:

        Google has advertising?!? Sorry, you caught me by surprise there as I've never seen any. You'll have to let me know what they look like...

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:05am

          Re: Re: Re:

          Ever hear of Adsense? That is Google. derp on.

           

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            out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:59am

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Ever heard of Adblock?

            Haven't seen an ad on google for years.

             

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              AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:40pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              It's kind of mind blowing to see an intelligent and reasoned response under the ootb heading.

              And speaking of ootb, it seems he is more contagious then I thought. I guess I should take this as a lesson to always mark my sarcasm clearly in threads with a high troll index.

              For those who thought I was serious, yes I am very well aware that Google displays adds. However I only see them on other peoples computers because I use something called Adblock (and yes, people like me are one of the reasons those adds pay so little and usually require someone to actually click on them before paying out).

               

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                Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:28pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                I have been silently working on OOTB for ages..as all of us at TechDrit have....I honestly think this is a breakthrough concerning him. I think he will always have something crazy to say, but I think he may have actually see the light here.

                 

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                  Anonymous Coward, Mar 1st, 2013 @ 2:02am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

                  The closest out_of_the_asscrack has seen the light was when he learned how to spell words correctly and stop using his /fucking irritating formatting/.

                  The outlook on him seeing any more light is slimmer than one-ply toilet paper.

                   

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              Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:29pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              AdblockPlus works wonders too :-)

               

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 8:22pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Hate to break it to you, but yes they do. They are the sponsored links. They just don't look like advertising as you are used to seeing it.

           

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            AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 9:47pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            Now that you mention it I do remember when Google first started inserting those. I don't get them either anymore.

             

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    out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:36am

    out_of_the_blue_is_stupid

    out_of_the_blue_is_stupid! Period.

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:36am

    out_of_the_blue

    out_of_the_blue

     

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:32am

      Re: out_of_the_blue

      He turned out to be reasonable to talk to when I was speaking to him. He even dropped his "Pirate Mike" bullshit. But I am sure you seem just as valid when you pose as him and not even realize that the icon to the left of the moniker and time stamp is different from that above.

       

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    out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:38am

    ARGHHHHHHH!!!
    Momyyyyyyyyyyyy...!!!!

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:39am

    Fart!

     

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    toyotabedzrock (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:34am

    Pain Coming For Comcast

    If they think anonymous will not ddos them and hack them they are in for a world of hurt when the actual page is found.

     

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    Rikuo (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:37am

    To the ones who are saying that because its in a contract, then the ISPs can deal with copyright infringement notices at their leisure...no, they can't!

    It would be one thing if the ISP were themselves making the claim directly. If I sign an agreement with the ISP, that in exchange for me giving them money, they give me service, and then one day they accuse me of not paying, that's all between me and them. Whatever dispute we have that involves the two of us would be resolved in the method we agreed upon when I signed the contract.

    However, not so with Six Strikes. Here, a THIRD PARTY is coming up to the ISP and accusing you of violating the law. The ISP is NOT a government body or deputized to resolve accusations of law-breaking (whether civil or criminal doesn't matter). Think of it like...you buy a car from a dealership, you borrow the money to pay for it from a bank, you pay the bank month by month and then two weeks later, some random schmuck off the street tells your bank that he's accusing you of driving on his private land. Would you honestly expect the bank to repossess the car on his word alone? The contract you signed with your bank/ISP is between YOU and THEM. YOU are the only two parties in that contract. In a proper, sane world, the bank/ISP would say "Well, in that case, if you want to accuse him, you can get a court order so that we have to give out the driver's (net subscriber's) information and then, you take it through the legal system. The driver/subscriber signed NO AGREEMENT with you (the accuser) that any accusations would be handled OUTSIDE of the courts. Barring any such agreement, you must handle it with the courts, with due process and evidence allowed. If we were to take action, we'd be overstepping our authority, as we are not deputized by the government to handle accusations".

     

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    out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 11:56am

    out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

    First, let me say how PLEASED I am at the amount of spamming and vulgarity falsely done on this thread under the name of "out_of_the_blue". It shows how influential I am. -- Sometimes more than Mike! This topic I actually wrote more and get more responses than he did!

    I'm sure you guys believe it annoys me, but no, you can't help but serve my purposes by devaluing Techdirt and exposing it as lair of nasty little trolls. NOTE that I don't regard or intend that MY efforts in any way harm the value of the site, but regard them as improving the forum and have definite signs of it: if not for my incisive and blunt critiques, Mike Masnick wouldn't have eliminated his vulgarity, and "Dark Helmet" wouldn't have ceased his bizarre rants on irrelevant sexual matters.

    But I am pleased at eliciting childish responses to my substance. You may disagree with my opinions, but Mike thanks me personally for my every post. ... Hey, wait a second. That's just a machine response! -- Well, when you make a machine available for public "bulletin board" use, then by common law you can't discriminate solely because of opinions expressed, despite any alleged "Terms of Service"; I've stated here that I don't accept those. -- In any case, Mike doesn't believe in censoring, our one point of firm agreement. Nor has he communicated to me through posts for quite some time now, let alone any warning that my content is out of line. -- Some here such as the one Mike called "Techdirt's comment enforcer", Timothy Geigner, aka Dark Helmet, have set a very low standard for vulgarity and personal viciousness that I'm always well above.

    And fraudsters: another of my purposes is to show that some regulars here regard "free speech" only as their being able to get links to infringing content, while in practice wishing to silence dissent even here.

    I've protested the vulgarity and the fraud committed by false use of the screen name that I use: I can do no more at the moment, but even that much is legally significant. -- The comments by some above to organize a fraud of deliberately posting under someone else's screen name with malicious intent to discredit, bully, drive off, and even harm that poster are quite interesting in this new era. I'd advise you self-stifle, as I'm sure Mike doesn't wish to become a precedent for site owner responsibility. In the highly unlikely event it were ever at issue.

    Anyway, I'm going to do an innovative bold-faced "Last Word" here to summarize points (mostly mine) because lost in the childish and vulgar babble plus fraudulent comments some made above:

    - Your ISP is now an untrustable man-in-the-middle. This changes everything.

    - A VPN is not necessarily a way around "6 Strikes" warnings.

    - Even if encrypted the ISPs may have simply directly read your key.

    - ISPs seem to monitor for types of traffic; for unusual upload to download ratio; or just for amount. All those may finger you.

    - ISPs are clearly colluding with Big Media and may well be passing detailed data directly to them. It's irrelevant to me how, but I suggest Mike look into that.

    - No other legalities apply than in the "Terms Of Service" which you probably DID sign and pretty much nails you down as agreeing to. They're doubtless comprehensive, and besides, you'll go broke trying to contest them.

    - Wally makes the important point of modifying firmware in the cable modem. It's a good question what that might do. All I can say is that the installer took mine out to truck and had some briefcase gadget that may have connected to its ethernet port -- I wasn't suspicious enough then, didn't watch.

     

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      out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:00pm

      Re: out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

      You can't have the last word when someone else posts after you, dumbass

       

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      Rikuo (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:11pm

      Re: out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

      "No other legalities apply than in the "Terms Of Service" which you probably DID sign and pretty much nails you down as agreeing to. They're doubtless comprehensive, and besides, you'll go broke trying to contest them. "

      Well, for your bolded comments, I actually agree (apart from the bit about VPNs) but that one takes the cake.
      So...let's say the Terms of Service I have with my ISP is that I murder a person every month, or steal a car and drive it to their head office. Since a TOS, in your view, trumps the law, then I'm allowed to do that.

      Contracts CANNOT contain points that violate the LAW.

       

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:32pm

      Re: out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

      - Your ISP is now an untrustable man-in-the-middle. This changes everything.

      This has always been the case, thus encryption is not only necessary but mandatory.

      - A VPN is not necessarily a way around "6 Strikes" warnings.

      It's the best thing you have, but why stop at a simple VPN, there multiple layers of encapsulation that can occur and make it almost virtually impossible to decrypt. IE Use a VPN and encrypted torrent connections.

      - Even if encrypted the ISPs may have simply directly read your key.

      They can't read your key, most of the encryption vulnerabilities are programmers using predictable and low bit rate keys.

      - ISPs seem to monitor for types of traffic; for unusual upload to download ratio; or just for amount. All those may finger you.

      As a bandwidth hog, but the end-users bandwidth is so limited when viewed from an ISP perspective this generally has little to no effect beyond the customer termination point.

      - ISPs are clearly colluding with Big Media and may well be passing detailed data directly to them. It's irrelevant to me how, but I suggest Mike look into that.

      If they do start to do this, I'm sure it would violate many laws both in the US and abroad especially if any customer information is included.

      - No other legalities apply than in the "Terms Of Service" which you probably DID sign and pretty much nails you down as agreeing to. They're doubtless comprehensive, and besides, you'll go broke trying to contest them.

      This is sadly true about the legal system of the US but the internet is a global system. I'm sure some lawyers in other countries would love to sue ISPs in the US.

      - Wally makes the important point of modifying firmware in the cable modem. It's a good question what that might do. All I can say is that the installer took mine out to truck and had some briefcase gadget that may have connected to its ethernet port -- I wasn't suspicious enough then, didn't watch.

      Comcast used to limit bandwidth and give channel access on the modem through firmware, but as a layer2 device with little to no horsepower and very little storage space, I highly ever doubt they would perform any DPI at the customer end.

       

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      Gwiz (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:42pm

      Re: out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

      And fraudsters:...


      Lol at the "fraudsters" part. Someone else using your unregistered moniker isn't fraud - but whatever, call it what you want.


      ...another of my purposes is to show that some regulars here regard "free speech" only as their being able to get links to infringing content, while in practice wishing to silence dissent even here.

      I personally have no desire to suppress dissenting views whatsoever. I welcome them. One can learn quite a bit from seeing both sides of an issue.

      That said, I will say that I am a bit prejudiced. My prejudice is towards stupid. I have a very low tolerance for stupid and drops even lower when someone is being stupid loudly. You tend to do that often. Just sayin'

       

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        Rikuo (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:49pm

        Re: Re: out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

        Exactly.

        For what Blue is claiming to be fraud by any stretch of the imagination, then out_of_the_blue would have to be his legal name, the one on his birth certificate, his passport and driver's license. As it is, blue, what you chose to use (and what I chose when I name myself Rikuo) is not a legal identity. I cannot pass through borders saying "Rikuo", nor can I enter contracts with it. Can you?

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:52pm

          Re: Re: Re: out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

          As it is, blue, what you chose to use (and what I chose when I name myself Rikuo) is not a legal identity. I cannot pass through borders saying "Rikuo", nor can I enter contracts with it.

          And apparently can't get laid with it either.

           

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:52pm

      Re: out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

      It should be noted that if you cannot easily find or access the TOS you are agreeing to (when you agree to it) , it becomes null and void on the providers side of things because it is their responsibility to notify you in a reasonable manner. Apple, for example, show's you its TOS concerning iOS when you get your first iDevice, and at every iOS update.

      The way most of us on the Six Strikes deal are being notified of our first 5 warnings is via the ISP provided e-mail service...which almost none of us actually really use. Nor do most ISP's ever tell you your e-mail service credentials when you sing up for service...which was what we used to do during the dial-up days of internet service.

       

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:49pm

      Re: out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

      Blue, just do not feed them. That is all you have to do. Let the actual signed-in community take care of your comments, and then leave it at that. It is going to be ok :-)

       

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      out_of_the_blue, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:07pm

      Re: out_of_the_bold, er blue's make-do LAST WORD:

      First I put the maple syrup on the balls. Then I rest the balls in my mouth while working the shaft. Then I come on here and pretend I know wtf I am talking about. Finally, I put the balls back in my mouth.

       

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    out, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 12:05pm

    LAST WORD POST
    LOTS OF WORDS. I TALK A LOT. I HAVE A GRANDIOSE SENSE OF SELF. I HAVE AN INFLATED EGO. TAKE THAT TECHDIRT. I AM SO AWESOME.

    and then some more how I think I have any effect on what other people say or do, and how I think of things no other human being could ever possibly think of.

    Your ISP is not the one inspecting your traffic, CCI is.

    VPN's are most certainly the way around it.

    ISPs can't have your key, they arent the issuing authority.

    Unusual upload or download amount won't factor in at all, since they are joining swarms and looking for IPs.

    ISPs are not sending the info to anyone, but CCI is sending IP addresses to the ISPs and the only thing the ISP does is contact the user. Full stop.

     

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:05pm

      Re:

      "VPN's are most certainly the way around it."

      Not at the OSI level.


      "ISPs can't have your key, they arent the issuing authority."

      Say that to anyone who has ever rented a modem.


      "Unusual upload or download amount won't factor in at all, since they are joining swarms and looking for IPs."

      They are monitoring both and accusing you based on either A)Your IP address...which the ISP provides you and has tied to your account information; B)Your torrent Upload/Download ratio...which is moot 99.9% of the time because some BitTorerent Clients typically force you to upload unless you find a way to work around it; or C) Both A and B apply.

      The point is there is no way around it because no matter what you do your modem will be programmed (and most are) to go through your ISP's servers before you connect to the internet. The VPN you try to connect to goes through their server first.

      "ISPs are not sending the info to anyone, but CCI is sending IP addresses to the ISPs and the only thing the ISP does is contact the user. Full stop."

      Under the agreement, the ISP's will do this, but when you realize that most of them are so kind as to provide it through their own in house e-mail service..that argument becomes sort of moot.

       

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        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:28pm

        Re: Re:

        Wally,

        Learn about networking first man...
        The OSI model consists of 7 layers.
        1. Physical
        2. Data Link
        3. Network
        4. Transport
        5. Session
        6. Presentation
        7. Application

        When I stated they are at least highjacking at an OSI layer, I meant that a JScript insert would probably occur at the Session layer or above depending on methods used. So technically they are not mangling anything on the lower levels.

         

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:51pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Thank you :-) That is actually quite informative. I was likely wrong and I apologize for my gruff behavior to you. I have another AC monkey on my back who just won't stop so I have become a bit trigger happy lately because of that.

           

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:02pm

    The way most of us on the Six Strikes deal are being notified of our first 5 warnings is via the ISP provided e-mail service...which almost none of us actually really use. Nor do most ISP's ever tell you your e-mail service credentials when you sing up for service...which was what we used to do during the dial-up days of internet service.

    More bullshit, "Dr." Wally. My neighbor got one yesterday, ?The notice was sent to his e-mail address, not one associated with the ISP. Go spread your uninformed nonsense elsewhere, loser.

     

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      Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:09pm

      Re:

      Then your neighbor is either dumb enough to believe it is legitimate, or his ISP is very kind in deed...nether Time Warner nor Comcast do that. The article is about Comcast.

      While I am glad you put your response to me in a place that I would notice, you were still rather rude about it. So I can hardly take your statement as seriously as you wish me to.

       

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      • This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
         
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:33pm

        Re: Re:

        Let me be clear "Dr." Wally: I don't give a flying fuck whether you take me seriously or not. You are a buffoon and figure of fun. You obviously a poseur with so little self-worth, you laughably try to pass your self off as a psychologist one day and the next lecturing actual IT pro's with a depth of knowledge acquired in 15-20 minutes. Only to fully demonstrate your cluelessness as you get shredded by people who actually know what they're talking about. Face it "Dr." Wally: you are a loser. Not a psychologist, not an IT pro; but simply a loser.

         

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          Milton Freewater, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:48pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          "Let me be clear "Dr." Wally: I don't give a flying fuck whether you take me seriously or not."

          Obviously, because your response was irrelevant to his post.

           

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          Wally (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 3:51pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          "Let me be clear "Dr." Wally: I don't give a flying fuck whether you take me seriously or not."

          Which labels you as worthless troll who has nothing to contribute in the first place.

          "Face it "Dr." Wally: you are a loser. Not a psychologist, not an IT pro; but simply a loser."

          My wife disagrees. My brother....jokingly agrees.

           

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            Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 5:12pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re:

            More likely your wife (if you actually have one) is resigned and your brother simply agrees.

             

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              AB, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 10:08pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

              You know, I rather like ootb, at least he tries, and I am at least grateful for the implications of his presence regardless of what he thinks. You, on the other hand are wasting valuable oxygen. Don't you have puppies to drown?

               

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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:05pm

    At least its not the Mediacom method...

    At least with this you're not disconnected. With rural area provider Mediacom, in addition to the already crappy service and horrible customer support, they enforce their own three strikes rule. Strike 1, written warning. Strike 2, service interruption until you agree to stop file sharing. Strike 3, no more Mediacom service for you period. And they only offer service in areas where there is no alternative provider available.

     

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    Milton Freewater, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 1:56pm

    TWO kinds of infringement notices?

    I read on TF today that a guy got a pair of standard-issue notices from Comcast for sharing porn yesterday.

    The strike agreement only involves the MPAA and RIAA, who are the ones using MarkMonitor. That's how they argue they can charge for "appeals" - the strikes are verified, not spam, not lies, etc.

    So if you're a porn or e-book producer and you want to issue a cease and desist, Comcast will still pass those along too? Customers will get two kinds of notices now?

    If unverified, unvetted notices from third parties count as strikes, this whole thing is a time bomb. if not, Comcast has to either refuse to pass them along or confuse its customers.

    All to impress a couple of stockholders. Hope it's worth it, Comcast NBC Universal.

     

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    Silver Fang, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:23pm

    Conflict of interest

    It is because of mergers like Comcast with NBC/Universal that we now have this problem. They make more money from content delivery than from Internet provision. Thus it is in their interest to degrade the Internet to enforce copyright.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 2:35pm

      Re: Conflict of interest

      It is because of mergers like Comcast with NBC/Universal that we now have this problem. They make more money from content delivery than from Internet provision. Thus it is in their interest to degrade the Internet to enforce copyright.

      AT LAST!!!!!! Someone bright enough to understand the true dynamic- rather than prattle on about how "Hollywood" strong-armed the poor, helpless ISP's into this.

       

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    ANONYMOOSE, Feb 28th, 2013 @ 4:28pm

    Comcast doesn't have my email - how would I know?

    ...I'm sure when I got my comcast internet years ago that there was some sort of default email address they assigned the account. I've never once accessed it, and have no idea what it is.

    And comcast doesn't have any information on any of my used email addresses - not sure how 'notification' works IRL...

     

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    Alana (profile), Feb 28th, 2013 @ 6:32pm

    Taking bets as to when Malware guys will abuse the system for nefarious purposes.

    Oh, wait...

    ...Isn't this basically malware?

     

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    DNY (profile), Mar 1st, 2013 @ 6:30am

    Piracy

    It seems to me this "remedy" -- continuing to charge users for a service you are no longer providing, rather than canceling their accounts -- is more worthy of the name "piracy" than sharing copies of electronic files whose content is the object of a government granted monopoly.

     

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    special-interesting (profile), Mar 2nd, 2013 @ 2:07am

    A VPN is a better way than just doing nothing. In much of the privacy case law it seems that if you make some action to protect your privacy (putting up No Trespassing signs is good physical example) you then have gained an “expectation of privacy” that is fully recognized by the law.

    Even if your ISP can recognize torrent usage behind the encrypted VPN imagine the warning letter as compared to a actual violation letter that has real (spoofed or otherwise) IP or modem MAC (the modem MAC address is in your ISPs account, its your unofficial account number and technically how it recognizes you uniquely otherwise it could not 'talk' to you at all) addresses along with file names. If you had your VPN up and running all they could say was that they were suspicious and that would be that. There are hundreds of thousands of legitimate torrents being downloaded every second.

    Examples: go to the transformed MiniNova site which sponsors 100% legit torrents of public commons licensed artists. (a great new way to bypass the middlemen of culture) Its also becoming more popular to disseminate software updates via torrents also. Ninja: thats a great example! Of the extremely popular South by Southwest® (SXSW®) http://sxsw.com/ live event and the torrent method of live music distribution.

    VPNs are used by many business firms to create a secure tunnel connection from any unsecured hot-spot wifi location to the home office. Its like normal SOP. (Standard Operation Procedure)

    There is no possible way the existence of torrent use, evidence, is conclusive proof of copyright violation(s). So. Basically what we are being fed is FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). And, more importantly, at the technical level all this is obvious and they must know it.

    Its hard to comment on the method of warning its got to be a hands off walled garden (DNS redirect) approach which would not require any clever programming. Its hard to imagine even the heavy hands of Concrast of trying to insert code into anyones computer browser. If you have a VPN its actually impossible to insert anything anyway. Man in the Middle attacks are actual subterfuge and doubt this will be used and you cant do it on the fly. The legal risks, for either, would be insane and -drooling- the resulting lawsuits would be GREAT TechDirt. At the very least hijacking is hijacking, why the double standard?

    Some hints of privacy on Internet: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130222/14191722072/six-strikes-officially-begins-monday.shtml#c17 52 Purchase your own modem and router. Also, smart Internet users turn off Javascript (NoScript) and never have installed flash. (and have never gotten a virus either even without a virus scan) Its best to have two browsers installed, one with your fave flashy scripts enabled to go to a known site that needs (needlessly?) it and one locked down for general purpose browsing.

    Terms Of Service (TOS) are traps and anyone who avoids such nonsense gets points. Its hilarious how cable firms (through lax federal enabling) can change such terms at their whims. I mean that when you originally signed up you agreed to certain terms but... they change over time and become worse and worse from a users perspective in the same way your car insurance company sends you a little note with every in every renewal payment that basically says, in very fine print, that your insurance coverage is less. Why would anyone agree to a contract that changes over time and you have no input/choice in the matter? Its commercial insanity and borged contract law gone wild.

    Quest is a rare example of a firm that stood up to the 'war on terror' nonsense. Kudos and lucky are they who have Quest as an option. Good luck and support to them. Yay!

    Mike: 35 bucks to review on a case by case basis has GOT to be the goal of the entire 6-strikes effort ' In Comclasts eyes because now we have the scent of money. Money is its own draw. (Adam Chandler historical cultural reference “follow the money”) Am sure such a review would be short and not in ones favor. 35usd sounds low but its a starting point and will surely be bumped up to 135 soon enough.

    Laughable are the warning e-mails sent to ones ISP e-mail accounts (which are likely filed with 6,000 or more Viagra spams) and ignored by almost all. The quote from Douglas Adams is hilarious.

    The 6 strikes (youuuuur Out!) is only a symptom of the runaway eternal copyright industry acting, as middlemen of culture, problem. My theme lately is limiting the terms of copyright to much less that the lives of the audience say 15-30 years or so. Better yet kick the entire copyright amendment out and enact a 'Right of Origin' amendment. (or call it what you will)

    The abolishment of the present copyright amendment (and related legislation) makes for great controversial party conversation, of imagined consequence, (while talking about some obscure legislation is boring silence) even if you lose the argument (which is likely atm) it gets people to think about it. (just wait till their kids rack up a few strikes)

    the comments about Clamcast merger with NBC/Universal conflict of interest seems important.

    Wow I am sooooooooo late to this huge party (again. Ha!). More great comments that were inspiring. Thanks. I admit some of it was over my programing head but... I have learned stuff. (salem witch trials... yes.) And, thank you trolls... your contrast is refreshing.

    Josh: “Naive, innocent, starry-eyed and optimistic” thats me!

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 2nd, 2013 @ 4:13pm

    Internet fascism.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Mar 3rd, 2013 @ 12:00pm

    There's still the LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) approach to this; when Comcast redirects you repeatedly, you can charge them in civil court(and possibly criminal, but I'm no lawyer)with 'breach of contract", 'unfair/unethical business practices' and VERY possibly, libel, since they've written down something as opposed to just speaking it (Slander is spoken, in print it's libel). I just read a story about someone getting a DMCA letter regarding a cyberlocker account he has, with very obviously wrong information in it, and it got me thinking about this kind of thing. I say if they (the ISPs, content 'providers') want to use old, and possibly outdated, ideas, it's time for us the public to use those tactics too.

     

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    mike c, May 14th, 2013 @ 10:44pm

    I dont care.

    If Comcast sends me a strike letter, I will get rid of them. Ill try Verizon. And if they do it to Ill get rid of them. I will use my phones 4g internet to download from pirate bay. If that dose not work Ill just buy the bootlegs from the guy down the street.

    This is like Napster all over again.

    How about this. we pick a day and on that day we all call comcast at the same time and cancel our service.

    Thus bankrupting them.

     

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    mike c, May 15th, 2013 @ 4:29am

    I dont care.

    or maybe Ill just go outside and find some friends and meet a girl and get a life instead of downloading shows all day. Hum? I dont thing comcast is thinking this through.

     

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    eric ensing, Nov 13th, 2013 @ 5:18am

    ...

    i think its really dumb, the internet is full of things that are illegal to download, if it is so illegal why are they still running online and still in business, if this was such a big deal why dont they shut down all these sites, comcast is the one supporting the internet that has these illegal downloads, if they are actually worried about it, then block certain sites, and capabilities comcast dont get mad at your customers when you are quite aware what is on the internet jeez

     

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    Dumb_redneck, Jan 20th, 2014 @ 2:13pm

    This is America the home of the ... penalized and imprisoned. There hasnt been due process in this place for 20 years. And constitution? Thats just a metaphor, these days. Gov't doesnt give a shit about rights and that metaphor i mentioned. They are listening to me have phone sex with my sister. Lets get real you have to be a pirate and a rebel in this place to survive. Shit thats how america was started and based on, remember, fuck the red coats and all that shit. well i say the same for this gov't now. get VPN and start giving them hell. It should keep them busy. too bad i probably wont get to see any replies, they wont be able to tell me on here. Have fun guys

     

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    Christina, Mar 1st, 2014 @ 8:30am

    This happened to me...

    This has already happened to me so I can tell you exactly what Comcast does. First, I get a series of emails specifying songs that I downloaded (through Ares - only P2P program I ever downloaded) were copyrighted and therefore prohibited. They listed the date they were downloaded and the name and artist. What's weird is the "alert" would come in Jan or Feb of 2014 but I downloaded the song in July 2012 or Nov 2012 and hadn't listened to it since then! So, after 5 of those I decided it was best to just delete all of my songs (which sucks but whatever) and delete the Ares program from my computer. That was about 3 weeks ago. Then yesterday I started getting these pop-ups while trying to do my homework no less (I'm on online university student) saying that the primary account holder had to call them. I tried to call, they refused to speak with me. So when my husband got home he called and basically this is what happened: they educated him on what copyrighted material is and said that he could not download pirated material anymore. He explained that we used P2P so how could we know if it was pirated? For example, if someone shares a music file with me, maybe they bought the CD and they are letting me listen to it. Regardless, he was told that he could no longer use any P2P programs to download anything. He was told to wipe the computer clean of any type of program like this but was given no instructions on how to do this. Then he was transferred to a "supervisor" who asked him if he understood what the representative said, and when he said yes, the supervisor said he would take the block off of our browser. And that was it.
    What I would like to know, does anyone have any free, safe, downloadable programs that will check my computer to make sure I don't have anything that 'they' deem unacceptable? I am not the most tech-savvy and I did not know I was doing anything wrong. I mean, everyone has Ares...I didn't think it was illegal, but call me naive, I really didn't think it was. I figured it was like if you had a friend that purchased a CD and let you listen to it or borrow it, so what? It is the same thing. But apparently not. So if I want to continue to have Comcast as my ISP I have to stop. Doesn't seem right to me.

     

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      nasch (profile), Mar 1st, 2014 @ 9:04am

      Re: This happened to me...

      Ares isn't illegal. File sharing isn't illegal. But distributing or receiving copies of copyrighted material without permission is illegal. So whoever you talked to is off base telling you you're not allowed to have a file sharing program on your computer. However, don't use it to download or upload anything without permission from the copyright holder (which it sounds like is the only thing you were doing with it).

       

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    Greg, Mar 26th, 2014 @ 6:50am

    Info watching unauthorized video is not illegal.

    Info watching copyright video is not illegal . The uploader is the one responsible got the info from reading other websites some with lawyers commenting & there even a U.S. court case that back this up. Comcast & other cable companies can not come after you for viewing the video. However, the content itself could be illegal depending on each county laws.

     

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