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US Still 'Warning' Antigua That It Better Not Set Up Piracy Hub, Even As WTO Gives Approval
from the more-sword-waving dept
This is hardly a surprise given the decade-long history we've gone through concerning the US's attempts to screw over Antigua by violating a trade agreement, and then ignoring, repeatedly, efforts by the WTO to make things right. Given that the WTO gave initial permission for Antigua to set up shop infringing on US intellectual property all the way back in 2007, it appears that Antigua has been nothing but patient. However, last week, it finally started making moves to put this "store" in place.
In response, the US has gone typically ballistic, threatening all sorts of consequences and blaming Antigua for the problems:
As for Antigua's response to the US threats, the country's legal representative Mark Mendel told Wired (the link above) a bunch of things (go read the whole article), but I think this sums up the key points:
In response, the US has gone typically ballistic, threatening all sorts of consequences and blaming Antigua for the problems:
The United States warned Antigua and Barbuda on Monday not to retaliate against U.S. restrictions on Internet gambling by suspending American copyrights or patents, a move it said would authorize the "theft" of intellectual property like movies and music.Of course, what the US claims isn't supported by, well, anyone else. The WTO has now officially signed off (yet again) on the plan. Apparently the 2007 permission was merely "preliminary," but now it's official. The WTO says this is a perfectly legitimate way for Antigua to hit back at the US for its flagrant violation of international trade agreements in trying to shut down Antigua based online gambling sites.
"The United States has urged Antigua to consider solutions that would benefit its broader economy. However, Antigua has repeatedly stymied these negotiations with certain unrealistic demands," said Nkenge Harmon, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Trade Representative's office.
As for Antigua's response to the US threats, the country's legal representative Mark Mendel told Wired (the link above) a bunch of things (go read the whole article), but I think this sums up the key points:
"I do think that the US has a mixed, immature and difficult domestic situation with respect to gambling in general and remote gambling in particular," Mendel told Wired.co.uk. "However, I think the main reason the US has not complied with the WTO rulings is that Antigua is such a small country they think they can get away with it. I also think that, unfortunately, some people in the US government were almost offended that Antigua chose to challenge the US and have been so persistent in its pursuit of justice that the US government has adopted unusually harsh and unyielding lines that have made it difficult to consider our issue in its proper context."Sounds about right.
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They did....
They had online gambling and had well over 2000 people employed in it, but thanks to the United States' meddling, that number is now under 500.
And, unrealistic demands? What unrealistic demands? It's not like they're asking for toilets made out of solid gold, are they?
Then again, maybe they should ask for wrenches, hammers and toilet seats.
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Replace a few words and that would sum up many overreactions by the US Government. Whether you're a digital activist, disruptive entreprenuer, or a small country, the US certainly has a 'might is right' mindset.
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We don't need them. Artists can get incentives to fund their works through refundable crowdfunding, plus whatever the free market reckons an artist is worth (people will naturally pay more if it provides more of an innovative incentive, even if the artist ends up filthy rich - we see how that is the situation already).
Once people start funding creativity like this, and once copyright is abandoned, China has nothing to profit from. You heard it correctly: copyright causes piracy, especially overseas piracy and makes morons like Kim Dotcom a modern day Al Capone.
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Hang on, hang on here, The USA government is the victim here!!!
Since the USA government is the victim here, the rule of higher law should take precedence over anything else.
But then again maybe we should use the even higher law of Canadia!!
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It's how the folks in charge got to office, so it's how they run their offices.
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Re: They did....
fixed
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Re: Re: They did....
You know ...
$500 for a wrench
$800 for a hammer
$20,000 for a toilet seat.
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Pirates of the Caribbean V: Antigua's certain unrealistic demands
*Grabs some Popcorn*
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And because I am that cynical, I can imagine the anti-war Left suddenly U-turning and justifying a strike against Antigua in the name of "stopping stealing". Or perhaps they will end up buying some other questionable cause being spewed out left right and centre. It can happen. The Left were quite silent when Bill Clinton unjustly rocketed the only pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, and quite a few portions of the Left supported the Vietnam war. According to the Left, calling Bill Clinton a war criminal was being an extremist, a crazy Right-winger or just not seeing the so-called "qualities" of Clinton.
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US democracy
George Washington
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Re: Re: Re: They did....
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Re: US democracy
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All in....
Damn, they called me on it
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An interesting thought.
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Re: An interesting thought.
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They wanted to continue running their existing online gambling operations which were employing a lot of people and generating revenue for them.
This interfered with the 'mob owned' casinos that operate in the US, and was deemed 'felony interference with our business model' thus producing laws that made online gambling 'illegal', eliminating one source of competition for the US owned casinos (which I'm sure contribute much more to US politicians than those based in Antigua....)
I messed with online gambling years ago (before the ban), and always assumed that the games/odds were rigged, but even rigged games have to pay out once in a while or the site would get such a bad rep that nobody would use it. Was it a coincidence that I would usually get a big 'win' just as I was about to lose my online bankroll? Probably, but I cashed out enough times to make money off them rather than lose it by using this against them (in tracking things for a month, I won 18 of the 20 bets that would have wiped me out and required me to add more funds or stop playing.... sure it was just a coincidence).
If fools want to be parted from their money by 'gambling', I say let them, and if they choose to do so online rather than in a dark smoky room with no outside light and no clocks, I say let them...
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There is also a US freak out "Antigua, power level 9,000" joke in here somewhere. I just can not pull that one together.
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Yeah, considering the whole six-strikes system is being put in place due to 'suggestions' from the entertainment industry and their employees, I'm betting this site will top the list of 'sites that will get you a hit on the six-strikes plan'. Even just visiting it will probably be enough to trigger an accusation sent to the account holder.
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That's not a legal question, because the six strikes plan is a ToS deal, not law.
Anyway, to answer your question: No.
BusinessWeek addressed the legal issue in their article:
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-01-28/antigua-gets-ok-to-become-copyright-haven
" Antiguans may be allowed to download freely, but for those outside the country the legal regime remains murky."
In other words, it's legal for US citizens to buy from this site unless a judge rules otherwise. So if you're "caught," the penalty will currently be absolutely nothing.
And how would they legally catch you? Purchases from a website are not public torrent swarms.
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what would be effects of withdrawing from WTO?
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Gaming is federal and state: no outsiders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act
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I rack the severs, I share the files.
I do it all for joy.
For every boy, there is a girl.
For Dodd there is a boy!
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or it could be a microtransaction site, where you're paying a la cart, but i'm betting streamed, rather than giving you the content.
Either way, i'm sure that US Ip addy's would be filtered, so you'd need a proxy, plus since it probably wouldn't be using open torrents, 6 strikes wouldn't really adress it at all. (obviously there's a lot of speculation there, just going by what's been said so far, and the fact that they'd want to monetize this + some common sense).
Assuming they don't fuck it up completely by going for a cash grab.
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But, when the WTO rules against the U.S. Government, the Federal Government acts like no decision was issued and thinks that they can simply ignore the WTO.
Here's an idea for the U.S. Government, accept the WTO decision.
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1 down, 50 more to go.
That's fine until some DA in Memphis decides to start extraditing people. That's the really clueless part about Antigua's position in all of this. They seem to acknowledge the Puritanical aspects of the US in this regard but only partially.
We have our own internal disputes about what is acceptable. Never mind some pissant island in the Carribean.
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Prep the cyber-terror attacks on Antigua
1. Cyber-terror against Antigua
2. Slips in anti-Antigua language into secret trade agreements with other countries
3. Sends the CIA into Antigua to take out select targets (human, infrastructure...)
4. Manipulates ICANN to shut down the DNS of Antigua originating IP blocks somehow
5. Use Antigua as new material written by Chris Dodd as to further proof that piracy is illegal, harms American artists and deserves U.N. sanctions...
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Back to basics I suppose
Internet "piracy" is now turning into "internet privateering" in Antigua.
I guess this gives the phrase 'Pirates of the Caribbean' a whole new meaning huh?
What will the US do now?
As the Zen Master says, "We'll see."
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This is a similar to an earlier situation from the late 50's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mouse_That_Roared_(film)
;-)
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In other words the selling, purchasing, downloading, or otherwise of these works is NOT piracy is NOT illegal or unlawful and is NOT punishable in any court system or country that is a member state of the WTO.
For any court or authority in any of these member states to punish or declare unlawful/illegal for there own citizens any of the above would immediately be a breach of the binding WTO agreements, which would result in further sanctions against the country that did this.
Can we all please stop calling this Piracy. when in fact it is purely authorised and legal for these works to be sold/obtained in this way.
Interestingly the copyright holders might have an actionable claim on the United States Government though I can see the USG claiming sovereign immunity on that.
If this effects the 'six strike' system then the first place anyone should go is to a court AND NOT the arbitration hearing and counter sue the ISP for both alleging illegal/unlawful acts on something that is absolutely legal.
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Hell, go one further, and add in The Pirate Bay for added lulz.
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Cue invasion in 3, 2, 1...
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Re: An interesting thought.
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Maybe China...
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Well, take a painful bite back uncle Sam.
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since when did it stop at Antigua? just about every country on the planet, in particular the smaller ones that have almost a zilch chance of defending themselves, have suffered from the bullying of the USA. it needs to stop! the interests of the US are not more important than the interests of anywhere else!
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"I am altering the deal. pray I don't alter it any further"
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Soon..
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History repeating itself...
... Again?
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You know, one of those nukes the US has wanted to test out for years and hasn't had a chance, but can't wait for Iran to start a nuclear "event"..............
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Re: 1 down, 50 more to go.
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"Our way or the highway."
Even when vetod in the UN, the US still gathered its laughable coalition of the willing and went to war. Everyone has to do what the US says, and the US doesn't have to do anything that anyone says. Old news.
I'm just waiting for someone, somewhere to grow a pair and say "With all due respect, mr President, I think we'll try the highway." Preferably they should record said conversation, threats and all, and release it to the media at the same time.
Honestly, the US owes everyone money, produces little to nothing of anything, and keeps shooting in all directions. If just HALF of the world's nations set up trade blockades against the US, the country would be in the stone ages within months. I don't understand why countries keep obeying a country that's quickly becoming morally, legally and financially bankrupt.
Forgive me for going all Reagan but maybe it's time to "Just Say No!"
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in your eye, sauron ! ! !
a little hobbit-nation may still take you down, and wouldn't that be glorious...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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Don't forget the overhead using Hollywood Accounting
First Antigua would have to set up a store to sell US copyrighted property. Then Antigua would need to set up various government agencies that bill "fees" to the store, thus causing the store not to be profitable.
Those stores might have to sell Billions and Billions of dollars worth of US IP before they become profitable enough to recoup the WTO award of $21 Million. I mean Star Wars still isn't profitable.
The US might object, but under Hollywood Accounting rules, this is acceptable practice.
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Re: Gaming is federal and state: no outsiders
No, there are plenty of casinos and horse tracks that are not government owned. As far as I know none of them are government owned.
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Antigua's economy
It'll certainly be interesting to see how this move does affect Antigua's economy. We might finally have a good test case for "do copyrights actually help the overall economy or not ?".
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Re: Hang on, hang on here, The USA government is the victim here!!!
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Re: Re: Hang on, hang on here, The USA government is the victim here!!!
Too many damn acronyms
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Re: Re: Re: Hang on, hang on here, The USA government is the victim here!!!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Hang on, hang on here, The USA government is the victim here!!!
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On the other, invading two countries, one on totally made-up 'evidence' and causing untold deaths and misery, and monumentally cocking up both of those wars as badly as the afore-mentioned Vietnam. Plus invading some other sovereign nations in previous administrations just for the fun of it.
Remind me, which is worse for sheer nastiness, Right or Left?
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Re: Maybe China...
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