Crime Inc. Produces Thoughtful, Nuanced Episode About Piracy (Haha, Just Kidding! Cue Scary Music)

from the too-bad dept

Earlier this year, after a series of long and detailed phone calls in which I tried to explain to producers of CNBC's 'Crime Inc.' why the claims about "piracy" were exaggerated, and how conflating physical bootlegging and unauthorized digital downloads was a mistake, we did a filmed interview that took place over a few hours in San Francisco. I had hoped that maybe, just maybe, they'd be able to present the story of copyright infringement with a bit of nuance, rather than the typical "run for your lives! theft! piracy! gangsters!" Unfortunately, it appears that the show went in the other direction and did the cliche and totally bogus storyline that digital downloads are a form of organized crime costing billions. I haven't yet seen the whole program, but judging from the show's online description and "extras" along with its video preview, this is going to be more of the same garbage:
From the voice-over, scary music, and video clips, this looks like a repeat of what 60 Minutes put on a few years ago. Given that CNBC is (of course) owned by NBC Universal, perhaps that's not too surprising. But I had hoped that maybe, just maybe, they could be convinced to present a more nuanced position. Instead, the video clip clearly presents downloading in the same light as physical bootlegging, claims billions of "losses" and suggests the whole thing is a criminal epidemic, rather than a situation in which a failure by the entertainment industry to adapt is a major part of the problem.

One of the "extras" shows ICE boss John Morton gleefully talking about seizing and forfeiting domain names -- which is odd timing given that just yesterday the feds had to give back one of those domain names because Morton and his crew totally screwed up. But don't bet on seeing that in this report.

The show officially airs today (times depend on where you are). I have no idea if any of my footage even made it into the show, but given the positioning of everything shown on the website, it wouldn't surprise me if the points I made about how much of this is exaggerated and misleading don't make it into the episode, or if they do, they're presented completely out of context. So much for trying to bring a little sanity to reporting on these things. I guess reporting on reality, rather than the industry's spin, just doesn't play on cable news.


Reader Comments (rss)

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    Tim K (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 11:14am

    Swat

    Yep, they definitely need the SWAT team to break down the door and go in with shotguns for those filthy media pirates. I mean, can you imagine what Dotcom would have done if they didn't have all that stuff when they took him down?

    I think they just always forget to mention that the majority of the money that piracy is costing is in the bribes, I mean donations, and the 'enforcement'.

     

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    Lowestofthekeys (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 12:47pm

    Wow human trafficking is on par with digital piracy.

    Who knew?

     

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    Rikuo (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 12:48pm

    Hey Mike, if they do air the parts with you in it, can you record it, put it up on Youtube and give us a link...

    Oh wait. That would be copyright infringement, wouldn't it?


    Bummer.

     

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      ahow628 (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:06pm

      Re:

      Performance rights FTW!!!

       

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      gorehound (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:13pm

      Re:

      This Video has been removed due to Copyright Blah Blah......
      Hollywood's Ability to reach my Wallet has been removed due to me forever Censoring your Greedy Asshole Studios from ever getting a dime from me.
      I can find a ton of Indie & Local Art to choose from.I do not need the shite you put out.Nor do I need to take the shite you want to force on us.

       

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    Killer_Tofu (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 12:52pm

    Media

    Aren't the media companies the ones claiming that we need them and can't trust bloggers and such?

    The only thing I think I see from old school media these days are lies and sensationalism. I am regularly battling horribly skewed and misinformed views at work and other places. From those conversations I can say that slowly but surely people are realizing that the old news sources are complete bunk.

    Blogs with links and comments are the way to go for news these days in my opinion. That way you can see people point out mistakes if they are made in the blog too.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 12:57pm

    Mike Masnick just hates it whenever piracy is portrayed negatively.

     

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    :Lobo Santo (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 12:59pm

    What possible reason would they have to tell the truth?

    "In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell

     

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    Josef Anvil (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:00pm

    Poor gatekeepers

    "Crime Inc. goes inside the entertainment industry to meet some of the people losing their livelihood to piracy..."

    I wonder if they are going to show us some poor guy who can no longer afford his summer house or the payments on his new Bentley.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:03pm

      Re: Poor gatekeepers

      No, they'll probably show people like me that can't replace their old Nissan because douchebags like you take my product without paying.

      Then I'd say "the truth hurts, doesn't it?", but it's clear you sociopaths have no feelings.

       

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        fiestachickens (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:07pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        Connect with fans much?

         

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        Cdaragorn (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:08pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        You're right, I have no feelings whatsoever for the sad sap that makes his life dependent on screwing his customers and refusing to listen when they beg to give him services that they would love to pay for. Poor you.

         

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        BeaverJuicer (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:08pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        Make a product that is worth paying for, and give me the ability to pay for it without artificial release windows (I'm in Canada, BTW) in a method that is convenient... And I will be more than happy to help you replace your old Nissan.

        Otherwise, you bring about your own demise. Sorry.

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:15pm

          Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

          If don't like my product, then don't take it without permission.

          Your parents obviously did a piss-poor job of raising you.

           

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            Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:19pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

            What's it to you what I make a copy of? You're not going to be any better off either way.

             

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              Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:31pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

              If everyone just copies it and doesn't pay, then there is no money to make more music. There's also no time to make more music because I'm engaged in doing something else to survive.

              You people all know this already. Your circular debate tactics never make sense and don't fool anyone.

               

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                Chronno S. Trigger (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:35pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                So how do people pay if I don't know what you provide, I don't know where to find it, and I can't find where to pay you?

                Remember, verifiable statistics show that people who download illegally pay more to artists then those who don't. So if you're not getting enough money to pay for your expensive ass equipment, then maybe you should think about advertising and not posting as AC.

                 

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                Lowestofthekeys (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:35pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                Are you assuming that everyone just copies and doesn't pay?

                 

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                Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:39pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                There's also no time to *pursuit of your choosing* because I'm engaged in doing something else to survive.

                Join the fecking club, princess.

                 

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                  Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:47pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  So because I was fortunate enough to be born with talent and you weren't, that's your excuse for ripping things off?

                  You're a sociopath.

                   

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                    silverscarcat (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:56pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    "You're a sociopath."

                    That word does not mean what you think it means.

                     

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                    SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:57pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    You're a sociopath.

                    Turn off mirror screen next time you post.

                     

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                    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:44pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    If an entire generation of people have become "sociopaths" from their everyday activities, then at some point the definition of "normal" has to change to keep up.

                     

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                    JMT (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:19pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    ...I was fortunate enough to be born with talent...

                    Customers are the judge of that, not you, and it sounds like they've spoken.

                     

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                      Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 10:25am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                      Yeah, they like his product enough to steal it. Otherwise it wouldn't be on all the pirate sites.

                       

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                    quawonk, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 4:21am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    Post with your band name so we can Google you and sample your 'talent'. Oh wait, you wouldn't want these asshole comments to tarnish your reputation. Anonymous Ccward indeed.

                     

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                Lowestofthekeys (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:42pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                I have no time to pursue my dream of freelance graphic design either...must be that damn piracy.

                 

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                  Cynyr (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 5:08am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  same boat here. "Tinkerer building what ever I (or someone paying me) wants, using my full machine shop (includes a 4-6 axis cnc machine)".

                   

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                Gwiz (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:46pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                If everyone just copies it and doesn't pay, then there is no money to make more music.

                This statement is completely wrong. Plenty of examples that disprove it here.


                There's also no time to make more music because I'm engaged in doing something else to survive.

                Ummm. If you want to make money at something, then it is a business. All business endeavors require other things besides creative elements to be profitable. Hire someone to do the stuff you don't want to.


                You people all know this already.

                I know that you are making arguments from an entitled point of view. Just because you create doesn't automatically mean you earn profits. It's never been that way, even in the labels heyday only 1% of recording artists ever made a profit.


                Your circular debate tactics never make sense and don't fool anyone.

                Circular debate tactics? Isn't that what you are doing?

                 

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                  Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:51pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  My product is highly desired. That's why it's on all the piracy sites.

                  The taking of it on those sites is illegal. I want the law to be enforced. My rights should be enforced just like yours are.

                  If you want my product, pay for it. If you don't, then leave it alone and walk away. It's simple. And you know it.

                   

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                    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:55pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    If it were highly desired, people would probably pay for it.

                     

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                      Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:58pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                      Many do. However a lot more would if it wasn't being illegally exploited by others and given away for free.

                       

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                        Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:00pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                        You're assuming they do.

                        Avengers was highly desired, but still returned a hefty profit.

                        Your stuff must be pretty bad.

                         

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                        SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:22pm

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                        Theoretical dollars, really?

                        If someone is getting it for free chances are they where never gonna pay for it to begin with. Or they where using it as a form of 'try before you buy'. Demos and 30 second samples are often skewed and people are tired of guessing with their wallet.

                         

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                    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:09pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    The enforcement's on you, buddy.

                    Go lawyer up, and start suing! Let 'em have it! Don't forget, $150k per track! That's way more than iTunes pays you!

                    Your life has been ruined by piracy? Well turnabout is fair play, right? Sue 'em back to the stone age! What are you waiting for?

                     

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                      Lowestofthekeys (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:14pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                      Hey hey now, you can't just go around suggesting that some of these musicians be PROACTIVE?!

                      Are you crazy?

                       

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                      The Groove Tiger (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 6:50am

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                      Duuude, that sounds like work...

                      He just wants to sit back and get money after working just once!

                       

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                    Gwiz (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:32pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    My product is highly desired. That's why it's on all the piracy sites.

                    Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Based on your comments here I think you might have a problem connecting with your fans. Calling your fans sociopaths and thieves isn't the way to do it. If your a dick (or bitch) about things, then you're fans most certainly are not going to want to give you their hard earned money, especially for a infinitely reproducible product.


                    The taking of it on those sites is illegal. I want the law to be enforced. My rights should be enforced just like yours are.

                    Yes it's illegal, but apparently a bunch of your fans don't see it as immoral do they? And personally, I want our copyright laws changed. But, please go ahead and enforce your copyrights all you want, just leave my money as a taxpayer out of the equation.


                    If you want my product, pay for it. If you don't, then leave it alone and walk away. It's simple. And you know it.

                    From a personal point of view, if your stuff was recorded in the last 10 or 15 years, I'm most likely not interested in what you are selling.

                     

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                    AdamF (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:38pm

                    Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    Your cry for help almost moved me to tears. I really really want to help you by buying your awesome product. Please post where should I go.

                     

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                    Leigh Beadon (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:53pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    If you want my product, pay for it. If you don't, then leave it alone and walk away. It's simple. And you know it.

                    Why isn't the reverse true?

                    If you don't like how people consume your product, stop putting it out there. It's simple.

                     

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                      average_joe (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:36pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                      Why isn't the reverse true?

                      If you don't like how people consume your product, stop putting it out there. It's simple.


                      Are you seriously suggesting that since people are violating his rights, it's him that should change (and not the deliberate wrongdoers)? Absolutely unbelievable.

                      Can I buy a baseball bat and hit you in the face? I mean, if you don't like what I'm doing, too bad. You shouldn't have a face that's fun to hit with a baseball bat. Oh wait, no it's me that should change, since I'm the one doing wrong. Crazy.

                       

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                        bratwurzt (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 2:36am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                        He was writing in the context of "how people consume your product". What does content have to do with bats?

                        /untangibles

                         

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                          average_joe (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 8:08am

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                          He was writing in the context of "how people consume your product". What does content have to do with bats?

                          He's saying that if someone violates your rights, it's you that needs to changes and not the lawbreaker. My point was that if I were to violate his rights by hitting him in the face with a baseball bat, he probably wouldn't feel like it was him that needed to change. He'd, naturally and correctly, blame me for violating his rights. His post represents the whole blame-the-victim idiocy that TD promotes. I think it's ridiculous and juvenile.

                          Just look at the way you guys are treating the AC musician who has done nothing wrong. You're blaming him for the wrongs that are being done to him, instead of blaming those who consciously violate his rights. It's disgusting, and it makes me sad that so many of the TD faithful are so callous about their wrongdoings.

                           

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                            Rikuo (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 9:29am

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                            Joe, we asked him to show us his work, to give us the opportunity, the chance, to buy.
                            He hasn't. Therefore, he has no-one to blame but himself. How can you expect to sell something if, upon being asked by a potential customer, you refuse to show it to them?

                             

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                            herodotus (profile), Sep 3rd, 2012 @ 6:43am

                            Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                            You know, when Rome was being overrun by barbarians, Roman citizens had their rights violated by those barbarians. It wasn't nice, and it wasn't legal, but it happened and there was no stopping it.

                            Advising someone to run in such a situation would be simple common sense. I mean, yeah, those barbarians are in the wrong and all, but would you look at how many of them there are? No edicts passed by the emperor are going to do anything to stop the barbarians. All they will do is piss off the citizens as they run to avoid the slaughter.

                            Do you really think it makes sense in such a situation to complain about the barbarians and do nothing else to adapt? At what point does complaining about your rights being violated become just so much whistling in the wind?

                            Personally, I think we passed that point a few years ago.

                             

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                    Rikuo (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 3:14pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    Would help if you told us who you are...that way, there's a small infinitesimal chance that you actually have a fan here on Techdirt that wants to buy whatever you've put out.
                    If you don't tell us who you are...why are you complaining that we don't pay for your work? We don't know who you are or what you've done! (Hint: that's part of the problem that Mike has addressed so many times with CwF. It does no good to whinge about lost profits if we literally don't have anyway to buy).

                     

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                    zanny (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 2:53am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    what prodict?

                    tell us and we might buy it!

                    or not.

                     

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                    quawonk, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 4:24am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    "My product is highly desired. That's why it's on all the piracy sites."

                    I just searched for 'Anonymous Coward' and nothing came up. Are you sure about that statement?

                     

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                    nasch (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 5:12pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    This really doesn't make sense. Do you create for the love of it, or for money? If it's for money, you're clearly better off with someone seeing your work without paying than not seeing it at all. And if it's for love, I would think you'd want as many people as possible to enjoy it.

                     

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                Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:48pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                "If everyone just copies it and doesn't pay, then there is no money to make more music."

                Really? It takes money to make more music? That's funny. Why didn't someone tell me that? I made music just the other day. Cost? Nothing. (Unless you count the electricity I used to power the laptop to record myself playing.)

                Money isn't required to make music. Nor to promote it or even distribute it. Not anymore at least.

                Please quit with the beyond retarded logical fallacies.

                "There's also no time to make more music because I'm engaged in doing something else to survive."

                Then obviously you suck at working in general and that might be why you have to work even more hours than the average person, and thus not have time to make music.

                I work three, count them THREE, jobs. My employers are all related and the jobs are all different. I work as a home health provider (2 hours a day, 7 days a week), I work as a clerk in a home health care office (this one is more flexible because there's other people there to help, so I go in 2-3 days a week for 4 hours each time), and last but definitely not least I run (or better said, AM) an IT department for an engineering/surveying firm. (I'm there at least 3 days from 8-5, and 2 days from noon-5).

                And despite all that, I still find time to go home at the end of the day and record music. Oh, and just fyi, I'm not exactly making minimum wage but I'm not exactly rich either. I make more than enough to pay all my bills though. And yet still have quite a bit of free time. Go figure.

                "You people all know this already. Your circular debate tactics never make sense and don't fool anyone."

                No, YOUR circular debate tactics never make sense and don't fool anyone. But you know this already. It's just you can't stand on your soapbox if you decided to go with the truth.

                It's okay though, I understand. It's easier to blame "piracy" and "pirates" than to admit you suck at whatever it is you "create". (Which I doubt you even do, but I'd rather not get into the debate of how someone who creates can barely comment worth a damn. If you're gonna lie you can at least be creative about that too, but your inability to do so says to me you don't have a creative bone in your body.)

                 

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                  Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:53pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  Oh, I should add, I write/play music for fun. But I'm much more of a writer. Anything and everything (songs, poems, short stories, essays, opinion pieces, tech reviews, etc).

                  So yeah, I'm either insanely skilled or you're full of shit. I say that because I do a lot and that music and writing stuff... I don't get paid for it. I do it because I love it and I enjoy doing it for fun. (Although I've sold more than my fair share of writings to people. You ask for it I'll write something just for you. Well not you, you're a self-entitled jerk and I'd never want to write anything to share with someone like you. But for anyone else, no prob.)

                   

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                  Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:53pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  I'm a music professional. You're not.

                  You recording stuff on your laptop for an hour after work isn't how popular records are made.

                  If it was, then that would be the stuff that people rip off.

                  But it isn't. And you know it.

                   

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                    silverscarcat (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:03pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    "I'm a music professional."

                    I can make stuff up too!

                    I'm an animal trainer who writes books on how to raise dogs properly!

                     

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                      MrWilson, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 3:14pm

                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                      I'm a robot psychologist!

                       

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                        The Groove Tiger (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 6:55am

                        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                        Are you a person that psychoanalyzes robots, or a robot that psychoanalyzes people?

                         

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                          MrWilson, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 1:13pm

                          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                          That's a good question. I'm going to go self-administer a Voigt-Kampff empathy test and find out...

                           

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                    BeaverJuicer (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:04pm

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    Labeling yourself a "music professional" does not make you any better at it than he is.

                    All it does is say "this is how I choose to make a living."

                    From the sounds of things, it wasn't a very wise choice, given that you can't afford to replace that old Nissan...

                    There are lots of people in every profession that just aren't very good at what they do. They're still called "professionals"

                     

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                    The Groove Tiger (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 6:54am

                    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                    I am the CEO of a major record label.

                    Really, I am! I said so on the internets!

                     

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                SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:07pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                If everyone just copies it and doesn't pay, then there is no money to make more music.

                I either never show my art to anyone and/or it only gets 100-1000 views, thus, I never get paid for it.

                I don't even get a "Hey I like this, or "Hey this is funny" or even "Omg you sux", I get absolutely nothing except wasted time and whatever enjoyment I got out of making it.



                Yet somehow it keeps getting made.


                I think music will be OK if nobody ever paid for it again starting today. The best art isn't done for money.

                 

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                  MrWilson, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 3:16pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  "Nothing written for pay is worth printing. Only what has been written against the market."

                  - Ezra Pound

                   

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                techflaws (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 11:52pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                Your circular debate tactics never make sense and don't fool anyone.

                That's rich coming from the guy claiming he's harmed by people taking it without paying.

                - people like your product and take it for free
                - people don't like your product and don't take it

                In which of these cases did you make money?

                 

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            Lowestofthekeys (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:23pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

            How will I tell if I don't like you product until I try it?

             

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              Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:28pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

              You should absolutely try it before you buy. Music streams everywhere on the net.

               

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                Milton Freewater, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:18pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                "You should absolutely try it before you buy. Music streams everywhere on the net."

                Proof once again that this is a knowledge argument. Two sides - anti-piracy people and people who understand the technology.

                Dude, a stream and a download are the same thing. They just end up tagged differently on your hard drive. If you're OK with streaming you're OK with file-sharing.

                 

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              Chronno S. Trigger (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:30pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

              How will we know if we don't like his product if we don't know what it is? Obscurity is a much, much bigger problem then piracy. Take it from me, I post my stuff freely to Youtube and still don't get many people watching it. I don't know if people like it or not because no one knows it exists.

               

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                Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:35pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                No one says you shouldn't be able to give your creations away for free. That's your choice.

                So why are you trying to tell me what should be done with my creations?

                Just because something works for you personally doesn't mean it works for me. I don't infringe on your rights, so don't infringe on mine.

                 

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                  Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:44pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  What if you die? And a century passes? Are the rights of the dead greater than the rights of the living?

                  I imagine that might cause some problems . . .

                   

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                  Chronno S. Trigger (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:52pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  You know what, yes, I'm telling you what to do with your works. If you want to make money you have to put your product out there where people can see. If you don't then no one will give you any money ever because they don't know you exist. That can be done in many, many ways, but you still have to put your product out there.

                  No matter what way you decide to put your product out there, you will face risk. The only way to live your life is to face the reality of those risks and work with them. That means accepting that there will be piracy no matter what you do and move on.

                  Right now you're just an emo AC bitch wining about piracy. You'll never make any money being a whiny emo AC bitch. Add on top of that the fact that you just look like a payed shill that doesn't actually produce anything and is just lying to get your next pay check, and you get nothing. Not a damn thing.

                  So pull your head out of your ass, accept reality, and move the fuck on.

                   

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                  SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:02pm

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  I don't infringe on your rights

                  Sorry, but restricting what I can and can't do with content and requiring me to ask permission is infringing on my basic rights as a creator and as part of the public.

                  By having a monopoly you take away the right's of others. Maybe if this wasn't so people might actually give a damn about 'piracy'.

                   

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                SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:14pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                Holy guacamole you too?


                I wish there was better options to expose your work, social networking doesn't help at all. Especially if you have no one, even if you do they're all too busy posting pictures of their dog and updating their status to look at whatever you've posted.

                 

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            Vog (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:35pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

            Actually, his parents probably did a much better job. He's not crying about things he's in control of!

            As Mike has said countless times, if people are pirating your work, most often it's because there's a customer need not being met.

            So you have two choices - try harder to meet your customers' needs, or keep whining about "douchebags" and acting like an entitled jerk - except one of these actual work, so I know which one you'll pick!

             

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              Vog (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:37pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

              That's requires actual work. My parents didn't do a great job with grammar.

               

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              Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:44pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

              As Mike has said countless times, if people are pirating your work, most often it's because there's a customer need not being met.

              I couldn't care less what Mike Masnick says in his reality distortion field. He's a piracy apologist that doesn't know anything about music or musicians.

              My product is for sale. It's freely available basically around the world. It's still being taken without payment in places where someone can easily purchase it.

              And that's because people that rip off musicians are greedy sociopaths that will take something for free illegally if they think they can get away with it.

              That's a fact. End of story.

               

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                Lowestofthekeys (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:46pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                Omg, stop the presses...there's people who exist that steal shit from other people?

                 

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                silverscarcat (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:07pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                "greedy sociopaths"

                That word does not mean what you think it means.

                BTW, what product do you have for sale?

                All this time, you keep saying you have a product, but you don't link to it and don't show me where I can find it.

                So, how can I purchase it if you don't tell me?

                Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to watch some anime I pirated because it's not going to be available in the U.S. anytime soon. And if/when it does, I'll buy it, since I know that I'll like it. (Mostly because I like the franchise.)

                 

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                  RadialSkid (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 11:08am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  But don't you realize? If he told us what he makes and where to buy it, we might STEAL it instead! Therefore, while complaining about his work being STOLEN, he refuses to tell anyone where to buy it, because then they might STEAL it!

                  It makes perfect sense!

                   

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                John Fenderson (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:14pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                I couldn't care less what Mike Masnick says in his reality distortion field. He's a piracy apologist that doesn't know anything about music or musicians.


                Obviously, you care a great deal. Regardless, Mike is definitely not a pirate apologist. Or, if he is, he does a great job at hiding it. Care to support your accusation?

                 

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                  Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 7:37am

                  Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                  Regardless, Mike is definitely not a pirate apologist.

                  What a laugh. He the Lord High Piracy Apologist and Google shill.

                   

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                SujaOfJauhnral (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:18pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                It's still being taken without payment in places where someone can easily purchase it.

                Hey I'd be flattered if someone did that to me. Nobody wants my work cause almost nobody ever sees it. Just to know that somebody somewhere actually wanted it enough to pirate it would be like a windfall for me.


                Of course, greedy sociopaths locked in reality distortion fields(you) will never understand this. It's all about the $$$$$.

                 

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                Leigh Beadon (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:55pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                I guess this is just irrational consumer behaviour, but those same people seem more than willing to give money to artists who don't call them greedy sociopaths. Inexplicable, I know.

                 

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                Rikuo (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:15pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                IF you don't care what Mike says...why are you always here demanding he answer you?

                 

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                Vog (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:52pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                My product is for sale. It's freely available basically around the world. It's still being taken without payment in places where someone can easily purchase it.

                Simply being for sale doesn't necessarily mean it's been distributed in a way that makes your fans want to pay for it!

                The example of albums vs. singles has been discussed: should I buy an album if there's one song I like out of an album of mediocre shit, or pirate it? The question becomes moot if you allow your customers to buy single tracks. The question becomes obsolete if you record good music.

                The bottom line is this: something with your marketing strategy isn't squaring with what people want. Fix it, stop whining, and get your new car or whatever. Great success.

                 

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                Milton Freewater, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:13pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                "My product is for sale. It's freely available basically around the world. It's still being taken without payment in places where someone can easily purchase it."

                Do you just lose your shit if someone plays your music on the radio?

                If not, why not? The people who lied to you about being ripped off today used to lose their shit over radio too. And they had a point - everyone who listens to the radio is taking music without paying for it.

                Problem is, that's not wrong.

                 

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                techflaws (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 11:55pm

                Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

                That's a fact. End of story.

                Nobody cares. End of story.

                 

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            BeaverJuicer (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:37pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

            More often than not in Canada, it is the content producer who says "no, I will not let you give me your money for my product because of some line on a map."

            Take the NFL2012 iPad App for instance. Traditionally, I have paid for this EVERY YEAR since its release. But this year, for some unknown reason, the NFL has decided not to make it available in iTunes for Canada.

            Or MLB.TV. Because I live in Canada, I cannot watch Jays games unless I subscribe to a specific cable package. But if I drive an hour away and across a border, I can stream the games live.

            Or Netflix, which the content producers have decided to offer an anemic catalogue.

            If you say to me "fuck you, I won't let you pay" then that is your choice. I say "thank you. I will enjoy your content anyhow."

             

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            Another AC, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:17pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

            Yeah! Just because we live in a world of so-cheap-it's-practically-free water doesn't mean you should stop buying his bottled water! Stop drinking from the damn faucet and buy his water, you thieving beaver juicer!

            AC, you make bottled water right?

             

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            Milto Freewater, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:54pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

            "If don't like my product, then don't take it without permission."

            Fuck off.

            If it's my property then permission is mine to give and it's none of your business.

            Basic stuff that every child knows. What was wrong with YOUR parents that they told you you can manipulate copyright law to take OUR property rights from US?

            And don't pretend a show about bootleggers authorizes you to tell your customers what to do with the stuff they bought from you. Bootlegging is wrong but it's a exception to the rule. As, again, every child who is not a thug understands.

             

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              Milton freewater, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:01pm

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

              "And don't pretend a show about bootleggers authorizes you to tell your customers what to do with the stuff they bought from you."

              Correction - with the stuff they copied from each other and didn't even get from you.

               

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            JMT (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:45pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

            "If don't like my product, then don't take it without permission."

            Your statement is nonsense. If people didn't like your product (i.e. they'd actually heard it and disliked it) they wouldn't bother taking it. But if they took it because they'd never heard you before, this is an opportunity for you to make a fan. If they took it because they had heard you before, this too is an opportunity for you to keep a fan interested in you. Fans you like your music and also like you will give you money one way or another. People who think you're a dick (might as well stay anonymous at this point) won't bother.

             

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        Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:14pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        That's us, sadistic thieves that take joy in robbing you of all the monies people would obviously be throwing at you if there was no Internet.

         

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        Rikuo (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:17pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        Why are you assuming that we would want your product anyway, free or not free? Simply because of who you are, I would actively avoid any torrents or cyberlocker links of your works I find.

        Oh, and since when were we supposed to care about your Nissan? Some people have it worse, I don't have a car. Does that mean that according to your logic, I should now whine and moan, because people won't give me money to get one?

         

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        Gwiz (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:20pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        No, they'll probably show people like me that can't replace their old Nissan because douchebags like you take my product without paying.

        Hey, I can't replace my old car either. Welcome to the recession, friend.

         

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        Beech, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:23pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        If you live in a world populated mostly by "sociopaths," perhaps you should consider moving away from a business model that relys on people to not be sociopaths.

         

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        Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:24pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        "No, they'll probably show people like me that can't replace their old Nissan because douchebags like you take my product without paying."

        Odds are...
        1) your particular overpriced, cheaply-produced "product" isn't selling, anyway, because it's crap.
        2) People pay what things are worth, so see #1.

        Wanna tell us what your "product" is, and we can see if anybody is even bothering to take the time to post it, much less download it?
        Don't think so, boy.

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:37pm

          Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

          I can go online and find hundreds of examples of my "products" being pirated right at this moment.

           

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            Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:38pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

            So yeah, the demand is quite clearly there.

             

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            BeaverJuicer (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:51pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

            I can go online and find hundreds of examples of my "products" being pirated right at this moment.
            Hundreds of examples? Probably exaggerating, but I'll give you maybe 300 for the sake of argument. OK...

            And you say we can sample your wares before we buy, via streaming music?

            Then I would assume, to replace your crappy old Nissan with a small new car (we'll say $15k), you are charging 15,000/300... That's $50 a track... Maybe this is why you aren't making many sales?

             

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        The eejit (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:29pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        I don't even have a car. How can you say that I'm a sociopath if I don't reagularly lie, cheat and steal? Remember that a good number of people employed by these so-called "artist-groups" have charges and convictions for fraud, perjury and pervertingt he course of justice.

         

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        Some Other Guy (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:53pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        What is this wonderful product you sell which you think we'd all love to buy from you?

         

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        MrWilson, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 3:09pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        Without knowing what your content is, I can't say if I'd be willing to experience it, legally or otherwise. Can you provide a link?

         

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        Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:46pm

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        if the truth is that you are a clueless fool who could not illicit sympathy or a following with cookies ya, it hurts

         

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          martyburns (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 4:57am

          Re: Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

          I have read every comment in this thread hoping AC would actually give us a link to his creations. For some reason there is a insy little bit of me that hopes he is a real musician, albeit obviously a rather deluded one. I actually feel a bit sad that he didnt. Weird.

           

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        jupiterkansas (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 8:08am

        Re: Re: Poor gatekeepers

        Dude, you have two choices:

        1. Stop the piracy by enforcing your copyright - and yes, I mean doing it yourself. It's your copyright (unless you stupidly gave it up to some record label and wasn't duly compensated) and it's up to you to enforce it. Not me, not the government, not Google, not TechDirt, not the internet. It's your copyright, so go stop those pirates. Good luck, although I presume this will leave you little time to make music.

        2. Deal with it. Piracy exists. It always has, but now it's highly visible. Anyone who wants to make money with music is just going to have to figure out a new way to make money with music. Maybe the game is over and there is no way to make money with music, but I highly doubt it. There is a way, and someone will find it (I think some already have).

        Every musician right now faces these two choices. They've faced them for the last 10 years. Guess which choice is going to lead an artist to prosperity?

        The truth is, there isn't enough money in the world for everyone who wants to be an artist to make a living wage. There will always be a majority of artists who don't make any money. They are not entitled to it. I say this as an artist who is not making money. I only wish I could be pirated as much as you claim to be, because then at least I'd have some hope of earning something.

        It sounds like you used to have a steady income stream that has dried up, and you want the world to change back to the way it was. Well, go ahead and wait and complain I guess, but that's not very creative.

         

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:04pm

    Lol they equate piracy to being a drug dealer.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:06pm

    Protip: Don't click the huge flashing "download" buttons, those lead to ads, spam and phishing sites. The actual pirated content you want is usually a link in small type near the bottom of the page.

     

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    TasMot (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:09pm

    Show me the Money - I know stolen line

    So, at some point are they ever going to show how "Organized Crime" is getting "ANY" money from giving away free stuff? Or, at least show us why organized crime has decided to be nice to society and give stuff away instead of stealing from us? Are they really stupid enough to believe that the entire public is stupid enough to believe that organized crime is getting rich on giving away free digital media files? I'm sure that there are some suckers (please line up the politicians with their hands out) who still believe it, but the general public is just not that stupid. Yes, look under some rocks and you will find some examples, but I'm talking about in general.

     

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    Tony MC (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:11pm

    I repeatedly accuse Chris Dodd of being a dick. Do i get to raid his home?

     

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    Ben (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 1:21pm

    Billions!

    Unfortunately, it appears that the show went in the other direction and did the cliche and totally bogus storyline that digital downloads are a form of organized crime costing billions.

    Digital downloads ARE costing us billions. Have you seen the prices on iTunes!?! :)

     

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    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:20pm

    That's what I call propaganda.

     

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    cosmicrat (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 2:29pm

    I'm a media professional too!

    I work for one of those major media companies making movies for your enjoyment. I am union, and while by no means wealthy, have a family wage job with health insurance. My bosses higher up in the corporation replace their fancy cars every 4 years because they are wealthy, because their company has been making record profits this last decade, this in spite of piracy. This at the same time as they try to screw us in contract negotiations, actually proposing a wage freeze and rolling back benefits.

    Not making a good living selling your media? That's because you are not part of the 1%. There is plenty of profit being made. As for me I hope my corporate masters pull their heads out of their asses, realize obscenely profitable DVD sales are not ever coming back, and start making their (our) products available for download/streaming in all markets at reasonable price points so his industry can move into the 21st century!

     

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      robin, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 3:36pm

      Re: I'm a media professional too!

      Thank you, +1.

      I've always suspected this, from the outside looking in.

      Just makes the bosses anti-piracy lobbying even more hypocritical than I've always seen it as.

       

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      Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 3:44pm

      Re: I'm a media professional too!

      They'll never accept making less money, even though it's the only way for them to survive in the long run. They're too greedy for their own good.

       

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      That Anonymous Coward (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:19pm

      Re: I'm a media professional too!

      Thank you for telling your story.
      It is nice to see someone "connected" to the industry who is often portrayed as the poor ripped off worker that "pirates" are stealing the food off the table from actually point out that if things are so dire, why are the studio bosses still rich?

       

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      Milton Freewater, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:06pm

      Re: I'm a media professional too!

      Hear hear.

      The current system sucks. I'd pay for access to something better. I'm just not holding my breath.

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 3:04pm

    Pirating The Pirates

    The other day I rented out and burned off a movie. Before the movie started there was that "Piracy is not a victimless crime" thing. The movie? "The Pirates! Band Of Misfits".
    As the Pirate Captain said, "We'll show those swabs a thing or two about piratin'!".

     

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      Milton Freewater, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:08pm

      Re: Pirating The Pirates

      Yes! The only time I saw the "you wouldn't steal a candy bar" promo in the theatre was before a Pirates of the Caribbean movie.

      I double-checked my wallet to make sure that, yes, I had paid, so why were they advertising a free option? I am still convinced that something smells about the whole thing.

       

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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 1:02am

    How depressing, I thought they might cover how a former elected official publicly admitted to bribing current elected officials to get laws beneficial to his employers passed, despite whelming evidence showing it is unneeded and violates the rights of citizens.

    Silly me.

     

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    Aaeru, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 5:47am

    This is how it works:

    The formula to profit on the net is this:
    1) More access to content = more fans
    2) More fans = more true fans
    3) More true fans = more money

    http://sharingisliberty.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/formula-to-making-money-as-an-artist-on-th e-net/

     

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