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B-Movie Legends Troma Entertainment Releases 150 Films On YouTube

from the watch-and-enjoy dept

Troma Entertainment is a giant in the B-movie world, creating and releasing tons of movies, including its most famous film, The Toxic Avenger. Company founder and film director Lloyd Kaufman (who has written a guest post for us in the past), recently alerted us to the fact that Troma has recently released 150 of its movies for free on YouTube, including some older films which they just distribute.

So, if you want to watch the 1952 classic, Abbot and Costello: Jack and the Beanstalk, or Bela Lugosi in The Corpse Vanishes or The Invisible Ghost you can. Or you can go for more modern fare like Zombie Werewolves Attack! and Blood, Boobs & Beast... starring JJ Abrams (in case you're wondering, that's actually a documentary about Don Dohler, another B-movie creator).

And because I can, I'll embed that last one here:
Kaufman has shown himself to be a filmmaker who truly understands how the internet can help him, rather than be something worth fearing, so it's great to see him fully embrace a platform like YouTube to distribute his flicks, and to not freak out about the fact that people can watch stuff for free (actually, to encourage people to watch stuff for free).


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  1.  
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    Gothenem (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 3:00pm

    Why can't the MPAA members realize that YouTube and internet streaming isn't the enemy? They fight against it with all they have, when they could end up making a fortune.

    It was the same with the Betamax case. The thirsty Movie Industry has to be dragged kicking and screaming to the watering hole. Once they finally get there and start drinking, they won't stop until the watering hole is dry, then they have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the next watering hole.

     

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  2.  
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    Bill W (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:01pm

    Mike, you Slimy Troll. Just gathering views by embedding "BOOBS"?!

    Thanks! ;-)

    P.S. Is that how you spell Slimy? Should it be Slimey? Enquiring minds want to know!

     

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  3.  
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    :Lobo Santo (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:02pm

    Re: Quite

    That's a very apt analogy.

     

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  4.  
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    Kaega (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:04pm

    I know what I'm doing this upcoming Sunday

     

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  5.  
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    STStone, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:05pm

    Re:

    >Why can't the MPAA members realize that YouTube and internet streaming isn't the enemy?

    They don't control either YouTube or the Internet, and they think of any distribution platform that they can control enough to bend to their will as "the enemy".

     

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  6.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:25pm

    Re:

    Mike spelled "slimy" correctly :-)

     

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  7.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:26pm

    Ok, are the Toxic Avenger sequels availible too?

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:30pm

    Re:

    Water?!? You mean that resource that literally falls from the sky? For free?

     

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  9.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:36pm

    If there is ever a tool for preservation of art that the b-movie it is now YouTube. I hope others do the same because I would LOVE to see Tangents (MST3K: Time Chasers) without mike and his robot friends for once. Only two films I have seen beyond MST3K are Squirm and a 1954 English dubbed Mexican stinker called Santa Clause.

     

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  10.  
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    Bill W (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:38pm

    Re: Slimy

    Hmmm, I don't think Mike spelled "Slimy" at all. He is Slimy, of course, and will spell it correctly if required to at a Congressional Hearing or some such but I don't think, at this point, that he has been required to provide a spelling of the word so far.

    He is, of course, my Favorite "Slimy Troll" and my comment was meant to amuse rather than an actual, intended insult.

     

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  11.  
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    gorehound (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:43pm

    Awesome Troma !
    Go Nukem High Go Ra Ra Ra !!!

     

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  12.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:45pm

    Crap, sorry to post a billion times in a row....can we please have a link to Troma Entertainment's actual YouTube channel?

     

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  13.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 4:51pm

    Re:

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:02pm

    In a few days, the DMCA take down notices will start popping up from the major players claiming they own the movies.

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:28pm

    More, he is a film maker that have made a choice to do this. Nobody chose for him.

    There is lesson to learn here, if you pay attention. Mike, are you paying attention?

     

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  16.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:34pm

    Re:

    Yup. As I've always said, I'm trying to explain why content creators should embrace these kinds of things.

    It's only people who can't read who seem to ascribe to me some sort of "defense" of infringement -- which is what you appear to be implying.

     

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  17.  
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    Nina Paley (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:38pm

    Yay!

    Go Lloyd! Go Troma!
    I hope some of these movies end up on the Internet Archive next.

     

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  18.  
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    Bill W (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:38pm

    Re: Lesson

    Hmm, I'm sorry that I don't see the "lesson" that you refer to. Honestly, can you elaborate?

     

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  19. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     

    Re: Re:

    HAY I AM SO EVIL YOU CANT STOP ME SO GET ANNOYED BY ME CAUSE YOU NO WHY CAUSE YOU ARE A STUPID ASS FUCKING PUSSY ASSHOLE I READ WHAT YOU WROTE IN THE OTHER ARTICLE AND GUESS WHAT YOU CANT STOP ME NOW HAHA I AM SO EVIL

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:55pm

    Re:

    for these types of film YouTube is paying better than Netflix. Smart move to monetize old catalog that has already earned it's "first run" money and is now kicking around the catalog...

     

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  21.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 5:57pm

    Not bitching not complaining, Toxic Avenger Series is $2.99 for 48 hours.

     

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  22. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     

    Re:

    bitch you cant stop me i am so evil hahahahha so get the hell out of this website you stupid ass fucking gay ass bitch asshole sick ugly fagit pussy

     

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  23.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:05pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Looks like I've got a stalker....

     

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  24.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:07pm

    Re: Re:

    Interesting parser, the more I speak the more I help it learn.

     

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  25.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:10pm

    Re: Re:

    Hey folks, let's not mark him and see how long it takes.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:30pm

    Re: Re: Lesson

    "Everything's gonna be online anyway, so why not cash in"?

     

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  27.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:34pm

    Re: Re:

    Feel free to respond though, it looks like the progression of a parser.

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:35pm

    Re: Re:

    Let's hope that someday their greed once again triumphs over their stupidity.

     

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  29.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 6:40pm

    Re: Re: Slimy

    You're talking to a virtual Vulcan. Sometimes it's hard for me to read sarcasm...once I get used to you, I'm good though. And I must say Bill W. nice work :-) I LOVE The Toxic Avenger Series :-)

     

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  30.  
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    Rekrul, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:12pm

    Re:

    I saw Tangents/Time Chasers once. It's better with Mike & the bots. :)

     

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  31.  
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    Spaceman Spiff (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:13pm

    Kewl!

    I've been collecting the Toxic Avenger series recently - they are just so campy and wonderfully dumb! A great view for a lazy summer night, for sure! Kaufman has to be given a great, big attaboy for this step, and for his attitude.

     

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  32.  
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    Rekrul, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:22pm

    Re:

    I just checked and Time Chasers is available on DVD from Amazon. Of course it's also available on at least one private torrent site...

     

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  33.  
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    Rekrul, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:27pm

    They didn't include Teenage Catgirls in Heat???

     

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  34.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:40pm

    Re: Re:

    Agreed, but I at one time had family in Proctor, VT. My oldest cousin on my mother's side knew the head of the sound effects department. Bit of a connection really, so it made that particular episode even more funny :-)


    Oh and Speaking of MST3K, before any of the VHS volumes of the episodes, anyone remember the bug in the lower part of your screen that gave the studio's address and and the message saying "Keep circulating the tapes!" ? :-)

     

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  35.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:42pm

    Re: Re:

    Is it a DVD of the movie? Or the episode?

     

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  36.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:44pm

    Re: Kewl!

    My wife has yet to see it. I have yet to see it all the way through.

     

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  37.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 7:53pm

    Bill W. I have a question for you. How did you react to "The Corpes Vanishes" ending up on Mystery Science Theator 3000?

     

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  38.  
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    Bill W (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 8:13pm

    Re: Re: Re: Slimy

    Klaatu barada nikto

    Or whatever translates to "I'm cool with that" in your language!

     

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  39.  
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    Bill W (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 8:17pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Captain, I believe we some issues here. Can we have Counselor Troy assigned?

     

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  40.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 8:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: Lesson

    Honestly, I think that the think it is sort of rewarding us for actually enjoying Tromo b-movies all these years. The only thing I think Tromo should make us pay for, and only because they have to make a living, is the toxic Avenger series. I just found them on Netflix except for Citizen Toxi. Still though a guy still can be paid for such a works of art and cult classics these films really are.

     

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  41.  
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    Bill W (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 8:25pm

    Re:

    Wally, I'm not sure how to respond to your question. If it was, in fact, directed to me.

    I am passing familiar with MST3K but I don't recall "The Corpes Vanishes" (Does sound interesting, though) ...

    Can you provide more detail in your question?

     

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  42.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 9:07pm

    Re: Re:

    Lol, sorry about that, my logic gets sort of fuzzy when I get excited. Been watching Toxic Avenger on Netflix so I have had time to rethink the questions through more thoroughly. Please bare with me I'm a HUGE fan of the Toxic Avenger series and of Mystery Science Theater 3000.

    That aside,
    If you had a choice of any of your movies to end up on Mystery Science Theator 3000, what which one would it be and why? I can only think of one other film submitted that way and it was Hibgoblins.

    Also I also want to know how much impact you think MST3K had on the industry because, to me, it felt like sort of a gateway to enjoying b-movies in a whole new way. I find myself constantly looking for the non-MST3K versions.

    Finally, would you consider reccomending the same methods of distribution that you have chosen to other b-movie studios?


    Thanks for dealing with a somewhat giddy human being :-) You just made my day :-)

     

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  43.  
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    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 9:14pm

    Abbott and Costello!

    I am a huge Abbott and Costello fan and Jack and the Beanstalk is one of my favorites. I remember watching that one as a kid frequently wearing out my parent's tapes. Another of my favorites is Africa Screams, which I bought my Mom a copy of on DVD for Mothers Day once because it reminded me of her. She was a great influence on me when it came to such great classics.

     

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  44.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 9:20pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Fascinating....it seems the troll is illogical.

     

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  45.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 9:26pm

    Re: Abbott and Costello!

    Just like my father in-law to my wife and MST3K to me :-)

     

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  46.  
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    G Thompson (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 9:36pm

    Re:

    It seems that it is now evident based on their current financial situation (ineptitude?) that the RIAA & MPAA et.al of the world are too poor to pay attention.

    [hmmmm maybe thats been the problem all along]

    Mike on the other hand pays too much attention (esp to the idjits like yourself) and gets noticed by all sorts..

     

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  47.  
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    G Thompson (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 9:41pm

    Re: Re:

    WTF?

    Has the medication allowance been removed due to your redundancy as a troll/shrill/loon ?

    I knew the financial failure of the RIAA/MPAA would have knock on effects.. Now the loons are in the wild.

    Run for the hills!

     

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  48.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 9:46pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    You know something, I don't always agree with you....but man you deserve a funny vote ^_^

     

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  49.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 9:55pm

    Re: Re:

    I think they wasted their money on campaign funds/bribes. Since the US election season has gone underway I've noticed a lot less about them suing people.

     

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  50.  
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    G Thompson (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 10:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    :)

    hey if every always agreed with each other the world would be boring...


    Oh and Off Topic: I apologise if in other threads or comments I gave you the wrong impression, and that I was somehow attacking you. Think we got our wires crossed in some way on a few threads ;( [Also me posting late at night with no sleep doesn't help.. your 11am is my early 4am - I sorta ramble then}

     

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  51.  
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    G Thompson (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 10:08pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    You could be an a good theory there, especially about the Election season. Also during election the (I'd gather the USA is same) swinging voters really control the win, and doing something that has the possibility of generating bad PR (eg: suing a senior citizen who doesn't have a PC for example) that can then be associated with one party's contributors etc is not a good idea if you want your preference to win.

     

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  52.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 10:52pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Which brings me to my next point :-)

    It's both sides that are bought out. The Republican Candidate, Mitt Romney, wants the US economy to burn down as it is regardless of any actual good changes Congress has made under President Obama. On the other hand we have President Obama who just wants to kick the $US13 trillion deficite can down the alleyway for a second term making it continually worse for the next president while my fellow citizens suffer.

    We need the attitude of a certain US president who was stricken with polio to fix us.

     

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  53.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 30th, 2012 @ 10:55pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ditto, I'm on Eastern Standard at the moment, so my time matches up with New York.

    Glad we are understanding now :-)

     

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  54.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 30th, 2012 @ 11:35pm

    Re: Re:

    "It's only people who can't read who seem to ascribe to me some sort of "defense" of infringement -- which is what you appear to be implying."

    No, god you are so fucking monotone it's hard to imagine having a full discussion with you.

    No Mike, the lesson here is that, if you give the movie makers (music makers, etc) a method to do promotion, one that they can choose to be a part of or not, some of them WILL choose to be part of it.

    You don't have to drag them in by pirating their stuff.

    Perhaps you can learn something here. Probably not, but hey, I can always hope that you can.

     

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  55.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 12:42am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "You don't have to drag them in by pirating their stuff."

    Do you have any evidence that he does? So far all we've seen from you is attacks on anyone supporting these business models as an alternative to the legacy models. Pointing out that many of these new models are not as susceptible to losses through piracy as the legacy models does not equal support of piracy.

    Unless you'd like to cite your claims for once, of course. Stop lying about people and implying they do things, unless you have proof they do so.

    Filmmakers can choose whatever model they wish. They can choose this new type of model if they wish, or stick to the legacy models. They can also choose to only release their movies on Betamax or Super 8 if they want as well, refuse home distribution, delay releases for years or overprice the DVD and restrict it all to hell. They just need to stop whining and demanding "protections" when it becomes clear they made the wrong choice.

     

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  56.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 12:43am

    Re:

    "Why can't the MPAA members realize that YouTube and internet streaming isn't the enemy? They fight against it with all they have, when they could end up making a fortune."

    I don't think anyone thinks that YouTube in and of itself is an enemy. It's a theoretical agnostic platform for video. What is the enemy is the loss of control over their products, having third parties decide how their products will be distributed and used - often with absolutely no regard for the commercial motives of the companies involved.

    "It was the same with the Betamax case"

    Actually, this is a good example of the difference between then and now. VHS / Beta in the end are perfect formats for the movie industry because copies of copies suck. Original purchased VHS movies are of decent enough quality (but not that good), and the copies were effectively useless. Basically, VHS movies sold in stores were better than what was available, and the movie theater quality was still far ahead of it.

    The current situation is so different, you have to be a little off not to see it. The current copies are perfect, often "better" in some people's eyes because parts of the DVD are stripped, such as warnings and copyright notices. Combine that with people getting nicer and nicer home theater setups, and you have a perfect storm: Technology and a loss of public morals have come together to hurt the industy, and will very likely decimate it in the next few years.

    Youtube can be a useful tool for marketing, but the question is: marketing what, exactly? Just like the music industry today, the movie industry is likely to see it's box off start dropping off faster and faster, as it loses some of the ability to charge up for 3D movies, and as attendance continues to drop.

    So what exactly do you think they can use YouTube to market? T-shirts?

     

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  57.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 12:51am

    Re: Re:

    "So what exactly do you think they can use YouTube to market? T-shirts?"

    You were doing well until you brought in this oft-debunked strawman. Do people really think that this is the only physical piece of merchandising that exists and the only thing that can be sold by leveraging infinite goods, or is it just a handy way to try and wave away that direction of discussion?

     

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  58.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 12:55am

    In terms of their own productions, Troma has always left me rather cold. Outside of the first Toxic Avenger and Nuke Em High movies, I've rarely found anything I like, and I'm a horror fan with a predilection to trash. However, Troma have carved out something of a niche for distributing good obscure movies, and I'll never turn down a free legal stream even if I discover I hate the film and turn it off after 10 mins...

    If I'm not mistaken, there's no regional restrictions here, so extra bonus points to Kaufman. In fact, I'm tempted to reward this move by purchasing the recent Troma releases on the UK Arrow Video label - a label whose releases I obsessively collect, but I was apprehensive about paying cash for Troma. Now, I may complete my collection with a (presumably) some cash going back to Kaufman and satisfaction I'm support a company who understands modern distribution.

     

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  59.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 1:20am

    Re: Re: Re:

    No, god you are so fucking monotone it's hard to imagine having a full discussion with you.


    You might start out by not kicking off a conversation with ad hominem insults. Just a suggestion. You'd find that I'm rather easy to converse with, but if you're a jackass, don't be surprised if I point that out.

    No Mike, the lesson here is that, if you give the movie makers (music makers, etc) a method to do promotion, one that they can choose to be a part of or not, some of them WILL choose to be part of it.

    Um, duh. Same point I've been making for years.

    You don't have to drag them in by pirating their stuff.

    Can you point to where I've ever argued otherwise?

    You seem to have built up a strawman of who you think I am, that is clouding your vision.

    Perhaps you can learn something here. Probably not, but hey, I can always hope that you can.


    I would argue that applies significantly more to you than to me. Let's start with this lesson: I am not the person you keep insisting I am.

     

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  60.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 2:08am

    so has the first take down orders been thrown about yet? surely someone from at least one of the Hollywood 'giants' has claimed copyright over them, haven't they? they seem to do so over just about everything else, regardless of whose it actually is!

     

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  61.  
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    Mitch Featherston, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 4:27am

    Nice

    Yes, it's nice to see a company handling content this way. I am not sure why any company wouldn't want to put their films on Youtube... they have a revenue share option, they would get lots of exposure, free bandwidth, etc.

     

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  62.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 5:04am

    Re:

    Did you even read the article? Tromo did this because they felt it right to do so. Not because of "Pirate Mike". You're just here to puke on the article as usuall. When are you going to learn?

     

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  63.  
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    Digitari, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 5:19am

    Re: Re:

    .......Technology and a loss of public morals have come together to hurt the industy, and will very likely decimate it in the next few years....

    Morals? REALLY?? like the casting couch? like the Morals of Lindsey Lohan, or morals of charlie sheen, or Paris Hilton, Or the Kardashians...

    people that live in Glass Mansions REALLY should NEVER ever use "Morals" as an argument FOR Hollywood....

    you can use a great deal of other fallacies if you like but Morals for a pro Hollywood stance is a JOKE.

    when everyone in Hollywood can pass a drug screen and have morality clauses in contracts again, then you can talk Morals.. and I do mean everyone producers, Directors, EVERYONE!!!!

     

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  64.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 6:42am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "You might start out by not kicking off a conversation with ad hominem insults. Just a suggestion. You'd find that I'm rather easy to converse with, but if you're a jackass, don't be surprised if I point that out."

    The tone of your original answer was pretty much "fuck off". It starts with you, so don't be surprised if I point out that you are a jackass about it.

    "Um, duh. Same point I've been making for years."

    Um, duh. No, that isn't the point you have been making. Your point has been that they should do it because if they don't, someone will do it for them. You are giving them Hobson's choice on it. I am saying it should be their choice (and their choice alone), and if the tools are good enough, if the market is real, and if the results are as desired, they will do it.

    "Can you point to where I've ever argued otherwise?"

    How many times have you said piracy is inevitable, so deal with it? It's your own words, repeated ad nausea on this site.

    "I would argue that applies significantly more to you than to me. Let's start with this lesson: I am not the person you keep insisting I am."

    I am not insisting anything. I am observing, and calling a duck a duck. You may not like it, you may think you aren't a duck, but with all the quacking and feathers and flapping wings, it's pretty hard to say otherwise.

    I think you are being very monotone on these issues, without the supple flexibility to understand that it isn't all or nothing. Business people will do it the "right way" (what that is) when the right way is in fact right for them, not when it's right for you.

    Understanding that is perhaps the first step for you to understand why Step2 can't get off the ground. You can't just declare something right and expect everyone to do it, when it just isn't right.

     

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  65.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 6:53am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "How many times have you said piracy is inevitable, so deal with it? "

    Stating blatant facts is wrong now, and you'll blame the person pointing them out for somehow creating them in the first place? Yeah, that's the level of intellectual prowess we expect from you.

    "I am not insisting anything. I am observing, and calling a duck a duck."

    You mean, like saying "piracy happens"? I thought that was wrong and evil now.

    "you may think you aren't a duck, but with all the quacking and feathers and flapping wings, it's pretty hard to say otherwise."

    He's made of wood?

    "Understanding that is perhaps the first step for you to understand why Step2 can't get off the ground."

    We're still awaiting facts from you as to why this is so (no, counting comments doesn't count), and also details on how your own business ventures are doing since you're oh so superior. What are you waiting for?

    Oh, and still awaiting that citation on what Mike pirates. You do have that evidence and not just pulled another false assumption out of your ass, right?

    "You can't just declare something right and expect everyone to do it, when it just isn't right."

    So why do you keep doing it then?

     

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  66.  
    identicon
    Rekrul, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 6:54am

    Re: Re: Re:

    It appears to be the actual, non-modified movie;

    http://www.amazon.com/Time-Chasers-Matthew-Bruch/dp/B0006PQQCU/

     

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  67.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 7:08am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The tone of your original answer was pretty much "fuck off". It starts with you, so don't be surprised if I point out that you are a jackass about it.

    No, it wasn't. Look at your first comment. You came off like the snotty teenaged brat who think he knows everything when he clearly does not.

    Um, duh. No, that isn't the point you have been making.

    Again, you really ought to read what I write, not what you think I write.

    I am saying it should be their choice (and their choice alone), and if the tools are good enough, if the market is real, and if the results are as desired, they will do it.

    History shows that those who wait for what you describe here get flattened by the oncoming truck. I'm trying to help them not get flattened and you're yelling at me for doing so. Incredible.

    How many times have you said piracy is inevitable, so deal with it? It's your own words, repeated ad nausea on this site.

    Again, helping people understand the reality of the market is a bad thing? You'd rather live in a fantasy land? Being a realist is not being an apologist or a supporter, contrary to what you appear to think

    I am not insisting anything. I am observing, and calling a duck a duck.

    No. That's what I've done. You just don't like the duck so you're pretending the duck is a pigeon.

    I think you are being very monotone on these issues, without the supple flexibility to understand that it isn't all or nothing. Business people will do it the "right way" (what that is) when the right way is in fact right for them, not when it's right for you.

    Heh. I'd argue that you're the one with the black/white view of the world. It's a shame too, because you're pissing off those you need the help of most. It's not a good way to adapt, which is why you're so clearly failing.

    Here's the thing: we've pointed out so many people who are succeeding in this world, how can you still pretend that your way makes sense when the entire point of it is to tilt at a windmill and bitch that nothing goes your way?

    As for businesses waiting for "when it is right" if you knew *any* history at all concerning disruptive innovation, you'd know that's not true. Usually they go out of business. I'm trying to prevent that from happening by pointing out a path forward. And you're response is to blame me for showing you the way.

    Seems a bit ungrateful.

    Understanding that is perhaps the first step for you to understand why Step2 can't get off the ground. You can't just declare something right and expect everyone to do it, when it just isn't right.

    Hahahahahah. That describes you a hell of a lot more than it does me. You expect the world to just do what you want them to do, and they're not.

    As for Step2, the site has done exactly what we needed it to do, and has been quite profitable. Did it grow to be a huge thing? No. But that wasn't the goal. We needed it to do a few things, which it has, and it's helped us get significant business. The point of Step2 was to support other projects, not to be a standalone thing, and it's done that and more.

    If that's a failure, I hope to keep failing that way over and over and over again. Perhaps, when you're older, you'll learn that not everything is so black and white, and that in all those other colors out there, you don't always know what's going on.

     

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  68.  
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    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 7:15am

    Re: Re:

    Free water from the sky? Must be piracy.

    BAN RAIN!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
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    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 7:26am

    Re: Re:

    I don't think anyone thinks that YouTube in and of itself is an enemy.

    You generally don't sue someone for a billion dollars if you don't think they're the enemy.

    The current copies are perfect, often "better" in some people's eyes because parts of the DVD are stripped, such as warnings and copyright notices.

    No one but themselves are stopping the studios from releasing perfect copies without the bogus warnings.

    Combine that with people getting nicer and nicer home theater setups,

    No one but themselves are stopping the studios from helping the theater going experience to be better.

    Technology and a loss of public morals have come together to hurt the industy, and will very likely decimate it in the next few years.

    Public morals are not being lost. The blind and short sighted greed and stubborness of the studios is clashing against public morals. The studios could very easily adapt by giving their customers better options, better experiences, and less bullshit. They have no one but themselves to blame if they do not change.

    So what exactly do you think they can use YouTube to market? T-shirts?

    That's one option among many. Merchandise is a huge part of many blockbusters.

     

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  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 8:01am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "No, it wasn't. Look at your first comment. You came off like the snotty teenaged brat who think he knows everything when he clearly does not."

    My original question was perfectly legit and not at all "snotty". The question is "are you paying attention?", because I think you are a little too busy rushing to conclusions to realize what is actually happening. If you paid attention, you would be pushing the pirates hard to stop do that things can happen naturally, not forced at gunpoint.

    For this, I ask the question: Are you paying attention? Your answer was: "It's only people who can't read who seem to ascribe to me some sort of "defense" of infringement -- which is what you appear to be implying." - essentially, "fuck off, I didn't read your comment and I am not what you think I am". You then repeated most of those actually words in your second reply.

    I am not implying ANYTHING. I am implying only that you are missing the most obvious answer because you want another answer so much that you aren't paying attention.

    "No. That's what I've done. You just don't like the duck so you're pretending the duck is a pigeon."

    No, that's what I've done? Are you kidding? Best answer on hand? That's it? See above. I think you are missing something big, and your defense is to mirror my comment back to me? Wow. Not really sure how to answer this one except perhaps you might want to slow down your insult parade and actually think about what I am saying, not pass it off.

    "Heh. I'd argue that you're the one with the black/white view of the world. It's a shame too, because you're pissing off those you need the help of most. It's not a good way to adapt, which is why you're so clearly failing."

    Wow, another hard statement to deal with. First off, I am not in a position to need "adapting", I'm fine as is. You keep thinking I work for the RTAA and MPAA, which is just stupid. I don't run a movie studio, I don't run a record label. So let's just say your judgement is a little off on that. As for black and white, I would say that what I am seeing in this story is a remarkable shade of grey, the one you are missing - that producers will use the tools if and when the are beneficial to them, not because some 13 year old decided to rip their movies and stuff them on a torrent or file locker. It's a much more subtle view of what is actually going on, and you just don't seem to want to see it. You are too busy cheering a convert to the "lie down and take it like a good victim" club, and not enough about what truly motivates them - and what would make the Internet all you dream of without the legal dramas.

    "Hahahahahah. That describes you a hell of a lot more than it does me. You expect the world to just do what you want them to do, and they're not."

    See above. I don't know what you think I am doing, exactly, but you missed it. More monotone here, you expect everyone that opposed what you think to be an industry shill or player. How wrong you are.

    "As for Step2, the site has done exactly what we needed it to do"

    If "nothing anyone can see" was the goal, you hit it dead center. I cannot imagine something that is almost totally inactive save for Techdirt staff and flunkies posting being a success, unless you are scamming money out of companies making them think there is actually public discussion of the issues.

    "If that's a failure, I hope to keep failing that way over and over and over again. Perhaps, when you're older, you'll learn that not everything is so black and white, and that in all those other colors out there, you don't always know what's going on."

    So enlighten us, oh guru of the universe - how does a chat board that has no users, no posts, and no activity end up being so profitable? Come on, case study time. This is one area where most of the rest of us aren't seeing much color from a site that gets no real activity - especially consider the begging posts you have made on this board trying to get people to go over and post. That is more telling than most other things.

    So... case study, or more denial?

     

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  71.  
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    PaulT (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 8:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "More monotone here, you expect everyone that opposed what you think to be an industry shill or player."

    Coming from someone who attacks everybody who disagrees with him as a pirate or "piracy apologist", this is particularly hilarious. Oh, and you freely admit you don't know anything about Step2's aims, business model and achievements/failures apart from the blinkered assumptions you made as an excuse to launch baseless attacks - THEN you get whiny about being called a whiny know-nothing brat as a result!

    If I didn't think you believed your own crap I'd congratulate you on the free comedy. As it is, I really do wonder how you expect to get anywhere with this parade of childish logical fallacies.

     

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  72.  
    identicon
    Lloyd Kaufman @lloydkaufman, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 8:41am

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120828/18264320201/b-movie-legends-troma-entertainment-releases-150-films-youtube.shtml#comments

    Lloyd Kaufman is one of my favorite movie directors.

     

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  73.  
    icon
    Wally (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 9:07am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Mike Mansick my dear friend, I think it be time we had a chat. With all due redpect, find your approach to dealing with the AC trolls a bit too much for them to read. When I've dealt with mine, I found that when I did the method of individually pick out the gaps in logic and countering with paragraph long retorts, they just came back in force as this one has done.

    Easiest way to explain it is that you have to gather your cool, find the biggest thing that they missed and exploit it in very few words.
    Certain things will shut them up. You just have to analyze what it is that makes this troll tick. Be blunt, be prestigious and to the point.

    Name calling never works at all, so outside the label troll, use nothing else.


    The best way to defeat a troll is to troll him back kindly (though bending that rule a bit applies in extreme situations methinks).


    Good luck Mike, and if you want to, check out my profile for examples of de-trolling a troll.

     

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  74.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 9:08am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Paul, I wasn't talking to you. Be quiet, grown ups are talking.

     

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  75.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 9:10am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Wally, with all the respect in the world, your ability to "deal with a troll" is sadly lacking. It starts when you label them a troll rather than addressing the points raised, and goe son further when you are stuck having to invent gaps to exploit where none really exists.

    Can't you accept that not all people are of the same opinion as you?

    That's the first issue of dealing with a troll: understand that they probably aren't a troll at all, you just disagree with them.

     

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  76.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 9:32am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Very meta, and beautifully hypocritical. Now THAT'S quality trolling. Bravo, good sir.

     

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  77.  
    identicon
    Mike, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 10:47am

    what. No Tromio & Juliet?

     

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  78.  
    identicon
    John Haugeland, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 11:25am

    Could be.

    I think it's gonna be a shpadoinkle day

     

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  79.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 3:31pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    If you expect to be treated as an adult, then maybe you should burry the hatchet on everyone that thoroughly debunks the nonsense that only you consider as logic.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
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    Wally (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 3:34pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    What makes your statement completely fail...

    Goes on further... not "goe son further".. Learn English and spelling and grammar before you comment.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
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    Gwiz (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 3:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Wally, are you seriously instructing Mike how to deal with commentors on the blog site he's ran for 15 years?

    Interesting.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
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    Gwiz (profile), Aug 31st, 2012 @ 3:59pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ok, so right after you "explain" to Mike the correct way to "de-troll a troll" you mock an AC for a simple typographical error?

    Dude, even I have to admit that that is pretty lame. Typos happen. Glass houses and all.

     

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  83.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 31st, 2012 @ 4:07pm

    Those movies should have already been in the public domain by now anyway.

     

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  84.  
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    Wally (profile), Sep 1st, 2012 @ 9:42am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I agree G Wiz, but I was also in a hurry to make examples. My point is simply to make the response brief and to the point at where it seems the weekest.

    This particular one actually rages when it's pointed out so I'm going to exploit it when I can :-)

     

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  85.  
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    Wally (profile), Sep 1st, 2012 @ 12:38pm

    Re:

    It's there methinks.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86.  
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    techflaws (profile), Sep 2nd, 2012 @ 3:10am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So, again you're NOT coming on as snotty, jackass?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
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    PaulT (profile), Sep 2nd, 2012 @ 3:19am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Be quiet, grown ups are talking."

    Where? I see one adult and one petulant child who won't back up his wild assertions with anything resembling a fact...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  88.  
    identicon
    Howard the Duck, Sep 4th, 2012 @ 6:19am

    Re: Re:

    Why can't the studios try the tactics that might work? Make all movies available, make them convenient to access and price them to sell in volume?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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