Countries That Don't Put In Place Copyright Regimes The US Likes May Be Deemed 'Cybersecurity Concerns'

from the fascinating dept

So called "cybersecurity" and "intellectual property" are two very different issues, but it seems that politicians are realizing that they get further by screaming about "cybersecurity threats" than about "intellectual property infringement." The latest proposed appropriations bill for the State Department includes a role for a "coordinator for cyber issues" -- which is an awful title. However, snuck into the job description is the fact that this person will have to create a "naughty" list of countries who are "cybersecurity concerns." Okay, fair enough. Except, the bill goes on to define what constitutes a cybersecurity concern, noting that if this person determines that there has been a
"... pattern of incidents of cybercrime against the United States Government or United States persons, or that disrupt United States electronic commerce or otherwise negatively impact the trade or intellectual property interests of the United States....
This seems to suggest that the State Department can now shame entire countries claiming they're a "cybersecurity concern" if the reality is that their copyright enforcement efforts are more lax. With such a broad definition, it seems like just about any country could be blamed if they don't magically somehow stop the "negative impact" of file sharing.


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  1.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 7:40am

    I'm glad to know that countries will no longer be allowed to get away with blatantly violating the sovereignty of the united states by suborning the illicit copying of our most precious assets - Disney movies. In time, perhaps they will mature and partake in more civilized cyber-activities, such as engaging in campaigns to covertly destroy infrastructure using computer viruses.

     

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  2.  
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    Louis Smith (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 7:42am

    Finally!

    We finally will have a report that tops the Special 301!

    I can't wait...I love reading fantasy novels...

     

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  3.  
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    blaktron (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 7:44am

    Stealing a song from a CD is *clearly* just a small step from stealing confidential information from a secure DoD server, amirite?

     

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  4. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
     
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 7:51am

    With such a broad definition, it seems like just about any country could be blamed if they don't magically somehow stop the "negative impact" of file sharing.

    You don't think the willful violation of someone's rights itself is a negative impact? If you trespass on my land, you have wronged me, even if there is no actual damage. I can still recover for the trespass since you violated my rights. It seems you don't value other people's rights--like at all. No wonder the pirates all flock to you in droves. No wonder you don't think there's anything immoral about piracy. You think it's OK to violate other people's property rights. I still chuckle at the thought of you whining the other day about how people don't respect "true" property rights. You're the one who doesn't respect them. Not at all.

     

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  5.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 7:52am

    Thomas link for H.R. 6018

    Here's a link for the Bill Summary and Status page on Thomas at the Library of Congress.

    H.R. 6018 Bill Summary and Status

    H.R.6018
    Latest Title: Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Year 2013
    Sponsor: Rep Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana [FL-18] (introduced 6/26/2012) Cosponsors (None)
    Latest Major Action: 6/27/2012 House committee/subcommittee actions. Status: Ordered to be Reported by Voice Vote.

     

    (Thomas has a web front-end to a rather archaic system: As a result, persistent urls have an obscure syntax. With a little help, they're easy enough to construct, but you can't just copy and paste.)

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 7:55am

    Re:

    You don't think...

    Repeal the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act.

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:00am

    Re:

    Copyright is a completely artificial "right" that has - at this point in time - been cynically expanded by and for giant corporations at the expense of citizens.

    Just because you call it a right doesn't make it a right. Fundamentally, copyright is a limitation on the rights of others rather than a "right" in and of itself. We could have a law passed saying that people on the Internet have a "right" to not experience vexatious little trolls like you and use it to ban you from the Internet, but I think you'd agree that is an infringement on your own rights and little else.

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:02am

    I am tired of the US and their bullying bullshit tactics in everything. The sooner China overtake your piece if shite country the better.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:07am

    people are now starting to realise that all the copyright infringement bills that have tried to be introduced (eg, SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, TPP etc) under whatever disguise, were/are meant to only prop up or improve US businesses, no one elses. now all we want to happen is for the countries that are going to be/already are condemned for not doing what they can in this area to start to concentrate on what is best for their own countries and citizens, telling the US government and entertainment industries to 'fuck off' in the process!!

     

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  10.  
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    Bas Grasmayer (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:12am

    I think this is a very bad strategy for a worldpower which is slowly losing its number 1 position.

    The US should be making friends instead of bullying other countries.

     

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  11.  
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    Trails (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:16am

    This seems to suggest that the State Department can now shame entire countries claiming they're a "cybersecurity concern" if the reality is that their anti-copyright efforts are more lax.


    Instead of "anti-copyright efforts" I think you mean "copyright enforcement efforts" or similar.

     

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  12.  
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    The eejit (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:19am

    Re:

    Yup, but that's mostly becaus ethey share 0s and 1s...

     

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  13.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:25am

    Re: Re:

    It's true!

    I possess copies of all of the zeroes and ones that comprise our most sensitive national secrets.

     

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  14.  
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    silverscarcat (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:26am

    Re:

    It's funny...

    I didn't see you saying anything negative when the government was violating real rights as opposed to the imaginary ones.

     

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  15.  
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    silverscarcat (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:28am

    Re:

    Trust me, I'm sick of it too.

    I'd like my state to break off from the U.S., buy up the states around it, and start our own country.

     

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  16.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:28am

    Re:

    ou think it's OK to violate other people's property rights.


    Copyright is not actually a right, let alone a property right. Copyright is a privilege granted at the whim of the government.

     

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  17.  
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    silverscarcat (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:29am

    Re:

    "The US should be making friends instead of bullying other countries."

    That's what Ron Paul and others like him have been saying for years...

    But of course, the media LOVES to give Romney more attention, even though he's a total shill and moron.

     

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  18.  
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    blaktron (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:30am

    Re:

    Actually Trespass itself does NOT constitute a legal harm, as it is a criminal action and not a tort one.

     

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  19.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:31am

    Re:

    which is slowly losing its number 1 position.


    I don't think it's so slow.

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:40am

    Re:

    Well, if you can take things out of context and say what the hell you want, then so can I:

    "I still chuckle at the thought of you whining the other day about how people don't respect "true" property rights."

    You think property rights are funny? You don't think they are important, do you? How would you like it if I walked into your house and used your tooth brush to comb my hair? You wouldn't like that would you*? Would you*? Huh*? Huh*?

    * Imagine that I am poking you as I say this

     

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  21.  
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    Leigh Beadon (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:47am

    Re:

    gah! fixed, thanks :)

     

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  22.  
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    James Plotkin, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:47am

    Old news...

    The US Federal Government has had a list of "naughty" countries for a long time (with reference to IP)

    Canada has been on the list forever. Some speculate that the list was one of the prime movers of copyright reform in this country.

    While this might be an oversimplification, there's no doubt that it played a role in the policy direction of the Conservative Party of Canada in it's drafting of bill C-11 which will be passed any week now.

    Hum haw...

     

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  23.  
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    James Plotkin, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:49am

    link

    Sorry, forgot to include a link to support my claim:

    http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6456/125/

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 8:49am

    probably a list most countries want to be on

    Only countries with fair copyright and ip laws will be on the list. So really the list will highlight countries with enlightened laws since the US now favors China style censorship.

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:00am

    There's no two ways about it: the US government clearly wants to cyber.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:05am

    Re: Finally!

    What are you talking about, those who protest ACTA are terrorists!!!!

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:17am

    Re:

    How can making copies of your land be trespassing?

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:20am

    Re:

    And how can copyright be property if its called copyright?

     

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  29.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:20am

    Re:

    And how can it expire if it is indeed property?

     

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  30.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:21am

    Re:

    And how much do you get shilling for copyright?

    (You can't be doing this for free, since you are against 'freetards' and, according to you, nobody does anything for free, which only leaves the option of you posting here for money. So, how much do you get?

     

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  31.  
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    surfer (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:26am

    Economics

    anyone not seeing this coming isn't paying attention. the US only has two commodities that nourish its' own GDP, and that is financial instruments and entertainment. there is no other viable product the US is capable of producing anymore. it used to be an industrial monolith, but China took that away, it used to be an electronics leader, but Japan took that away, including the automotive industry, thanks to the US rebuilding Japan after WWII. with the collapse of their financial industry in 2008 that nearly took out the entire planet, the only real item of profitability is fantasy and story telling from the music and movie industry.

    this is the primary purpose behind their (MAFIAA) leverage on politics and influence over other countries. sadly, Hollywood is the main source of the world's entertainment, legitimate or otherwise. it is going to take another 10-20 years before other countries can readily compete with the savvy of Hollywood.

    mark my words, or bookmark this post, because in our lifetime's you will see attacks on encryption such as VPNs, it will be listed as a means with which to circumvent totalitarianism being inflicted on the world. the statement will come from politicians very, very soon... 'if you are using a VPN, you must have something to hide, and therefore a terrorist/paedophile/murderer (insert current popular fear fanaticism here).

     

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  32.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:38am

    ACTA isn't working, TPP may be on the ropes because it's deepest, darkest, negotiation secrets may have to be exposed to Congress's eyes. So where to hide at and still get the demands.

    It's called regulatory capture, corruption, and hypocritical actions. In this present modern day age, the US has changed from it's self-perceived role of world police man to world corruption enforcer.

     

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  33.  
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    Trails (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:39am

    Re: Re:

    No problem!

     

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  34.  
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    Ben (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:41am

    Re: Re:

    The opening scene from HBO's The Newsroom sort of encompassed that sentiment (starting around 1:35, but especially the last minute)
    http://youtu.be/88XP4fAyV6o

     

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  35.  
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    Thomas (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:41am

    Money talks

    The money that the RIAA/MPAA use to bribe Congress and the various government agencies definitely produces results. We have become a bully for the entertainment industry. I'm only surprised we haven't threatened air strikes to get countries to do the RIAA/MPAA bidding. The RIAA/MPAA has a huge voice in DOJ (many RIAA/MPAA attorneys "work" there), and of course State Department. Sometimes I wonder how they find the right people to bribe and not only do what they are bribed to but also to keep quiet about it. Corruption has taken over the U.S. Government, just like many 3rd world countries.

     

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  36.  
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    Jay (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:42am

    Re: Re:

    If you truly believe that Ron Paul is the answer, you haven't paid attention to his policies.

     

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  37.  
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    Trails (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:42am

    Re:

    What you quoted has nothing to do with what you wrote(whinged) about. I'd explain it to you, but that would assume it was an honest mistake, which I don't believe.

    Your strawman is ridiculous and belies the unsupported nature of your position (otherwise you'd point out actual flaws).

    Cheers. Go away now.

     

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  38.  
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    Trails (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:45am

    Re:

    It's not about improving US business. That's the ostensible purpose, but it's false.

    It's about protecting legacy players with established lobbies who are threatened because reproduction of media has been rendered trivial by digital technology.

    These laws bugger US business in favour of said legacy players (protectionist policies lead to inefficient market lead to getting clobbered by unencumbered outside/underground suppliers).

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:46am

    Once again, pro-copyright people fail to think things through long term. What if a president who's against strict IP gets elected, and puts someone in that very position who's against tough IP? What if they start to do just the opposite of what the pro-copyright people want, abuse their power by labeling draconian IP countries a cyber-security threat?

    After all, you could make an argument that by forcing people to use file sharing sites and get around those draconian laws without getting caught they're helping to train more cyber attackers, or something stupid like that. It's no more stupider then the logic the pro-copyright crowd would use to go after weak IP countries.

     

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  40.  
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    Trails (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:49am

    Re:

    Not about making friends, imo. The US should be trying to keep their domestic innovators unencumbered by idiotic legislation.

    They should be trying to win through a superior supply of products and services, not a doomed-to-fail legislative lock in.

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:58am

    Re: Re:

    IP is a violation of my rights.

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 10:00am

    Re:

    IP should not exist to protect anyone's alleged rights. The only reason IP should exist is to serve the public interest. That you're making it about something else is more reason to abolish these laws.

     

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  43.  
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    Anonymous, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 10:14am

    U.S. also on the "cybersecurity concerns" list


    Except, the bill goes on to define what constitutes a cybersecurity concern, noting that if this person determines that there has been a
    "... pattern of incidents of cybercrime against the United States Government or United States persons, or that disrupt United States electronic commerce or otherwise negatively impact the trade or intellectual property interests of the United States...."


    I assume they're considering copyright infringement "cybercrime". And obviously plenty of copyright infringement goes on in the U.S. against U.S. persons that presumably "disrupt United States electronic commerce". So it would appear that the United States is a "cybersecurity concern".

     

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  44.  
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    Richard (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 10:28am

    Re:

    even if there is no actual damage. I can still recover for the trespass
    False

     

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  45.  
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    TtfnJohn (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 10:45am

    Re:

    If you take a short cut across the corner of my lawn to get from A to B where I live you'd have trouble recovering anything at all if I did no damage to the property on the way. I might be able to recover the costs of re-seeding that part of my lawn after four or five years but that's about it. Of course, if I have to climb over a fence to do that it's a whole different story.

    Keep in mind though that when we talk about Real Estate we're talking what's called Real property. Not just that but my and your rights are firmly established from more than a thousand years of jurisprudence.

    Let's move on to copyright and patent law. Neither were ever intended to establish the rights holder with the same rights that a holder of real property has. In the case of the first copyright act (1709) the major trigger wasn't the alleged "rights" of creators but to prevent publishers from bankrupting themselves by rushing the same titles and authors to market at the same time in order to get the best sales on what were hoped would be best sellers.

    All either concepts do is confer a monopoly on copying something, one in text form, the other in terms of physical inventions until they fell into the public domain. And it was a much shorter trip to the public domain then than now in recognition of that privilege and lawmakers who recognized that the less time something was held in a monopoly the better. Neither were ever intended to confer anything near the rights held by owners of real tangible property.

    Now. as for the United States wanting to declare my country a security risk if we don't follow every jot, comma, semicolon and period of how people like you in the States interpret copyright, in particular, and patent law fill your boots. We're always high on that fiction called the 301 list.

    After that you may want to talk to American and Canadian troops who, for years, served cheek by jowl in Afghanistan about just how much of a risk we are. Then you might want to kill off NORAD and NATO.

    All in defense of the fantasy called intellectual "property" "rights". Not that creators and inventors shouldn't be rewarded, they should be. But there is a difference between real tangible property and what's covered by copyright and patent law.

    Equating your rights where real tangible property is concerned with what's covered by copyright and patents is a false dichotomy. And a logical fallacy.

    Which pretty much covers the duties defined for the "co-coordinator for cyber issues".

    You can feel what you want and post what you want but your comparison is still a fallacy and no amount of stamping your feet is going to change that.

     

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  46.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 10:52am

    Re:

    How would one go about stealing a single song off of a cd?

    You'd need to take the whole disk.

     

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  47.  
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    silverscarcat (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 11:08am

    Re: Re: Re:

    He's a better solution than anything the Dems or GOP have put out in...

    Hmm...

    Well, at least 16 years.

     

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  48.  
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    Simple Mind (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 11:32am

    Re: Re: Re:

    I'd have to know what the question is before I could tell you if Ron Paul was the answer or not.

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 11:50am

    Re: Re:

    Ultimately it will lead to a slowdown in technological inventions because of the "court-fobia" (anyone got a better word for the fear of getting sued?) and thereby a significant disadvantage compared to other countries, when it comes to market-absorption of technology. In the long run, this IP-race will hurt the developed world hard, when it comes to getting new technologies in production.

     

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  50.  
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    You're a Gazelle! (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 12:16pm

    Re: Re:

    I agree! Everyone here is just a big piratey pirate face! And they are all big stealers!

     

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  51.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 12:32pm

    Re: Re:

    For a million years man kind has existed in some form. For about 300 years of that time we have had copyright.

    Pre-copyright
    -The Odyssey
    -Shakespeare
    -Michelangelo
    -etc

    We did pretty well before copyright.

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 12:36pm

    Re:

    Goverment granted monoply is not a moral right

     

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  53.  
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    relghuar, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 1:08pm

    That's great!

    I'm really looking forward to the day the whole world starts laughing every time US representatives open their mouths to make any "official reports" :-D Doesn't really look that far away now, from where I stand....

     

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  54.  
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    Quawonk, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 1:30pm

    U.S: Let our corporations write your laws too, or else!

    I predict that before long there will be a war over this, as in an actual military armed conflict with people being shot and bombed. Over movies and music.

     

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  55.  
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    TtfnJohn (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 1:40pm

    Re: Re:

    Its becoming quite rapid, which is probably behind a lot of the IP law extremism in some sectors and in government there. "If we could only fix that everything would be coming up roses!" Only if you care for your roses, of course.

    The irony is that the IP extremism is costing the USA more than it's helping anything. So are the fantasies entertained around intellectual "property" such as the notion that it's a "right" and not a privilege extended to people in exchange for broadening knowledge, technology and education. What the extremists don't get is that the more extreme they become the more society at large questions extending those privileges to them and the less the society at large questions whether it is getting its end of the bargain or not. And the more society at large comes to the conclusion that it isn't.

    In the meantime emerging economies such as China, Russia, Brazil and India don't worry their heads all that much about things like that. They'll take what they think they need in exactly the same way the United States did "back in the day" when it was a new country.

    When the USA doesn't benefit from it's discoveries, inventions and writings as much as it ought to the skid downwards becomes faster and less controllable.

    It will be a sad day when it happens. The country that housed the most true innovations of the last couple of centuries stops being the primary source and market for those innovations we will have lost something very valuable.

     

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  56.  
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    QUawonk, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 1:43pm

    Re:

    It's simply about controlling the Internet. It's a threat to the existing power structure and therefore must be controlled... or destroyed.

     

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  57.  
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    TtfnJohn (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 1:54pm

    Re: Old news...

    As far as I know C-11 has moved off to the Senate which means that it's a done deed, just lacking Royal Assent.

    I doubt anything in C-11 will change out position on the 301 list as it has almost as much to do with reality as John Carter of Mars does. And it's nowhere near as bad as it could have been or many feared it would be.

    Will it get us off the list? Nahhh. we have a permanent place there, I suspect. Who needs ISOHunt when there's all these bridges and highways that run across the border!

     

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  58.  
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    JMT (profile), Jun 29th, 2012 @ 3:31pm

    Re:

    "You don't think the willful violation of someone's rights itself is a negative impact?"

    I don't think the willful violation of someone's copyright is a negative impact.

    "It seems you don't value other people's rights--like at all."

    Actual, real, physical property rights are absolutely respected by Techdirt and it's readers. Imaginary property rights, not so much.

     

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  59.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 29th, 2012 @ 9:21pm

    Fuck off, America

     

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  60.  
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    Niall (profile), Jul 2nd, 2012 @ 7:23am

    Re:

    But if you have a million acres and I take one step on your land, are you really 'hurt'?

    Besides, the way copyright is abused, it's like I do something on my own land next to yours, and you try taking me to court for 'intruding' on you and 'wronging' you, just because you can see it.

    And by the way, the rest of the world doesn't have the extreme American religion of 'property rights', so we don't give a flying pig's ear about your imaginary wrongs. Just like we laugh at the murderous gun laws you fight so hard to keep.

    Hah, you might as well sue us for not wanting guns!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    Niall (profile), Jul 2nd, 2012 @ 7:25am

    Re:

    Well, they already cybered Iran!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Another Anonymous Fellow, Jul 2nd, 2012 @ 5:44pm

    Re: Re:

    I also live in a country where it's not considered trespassing if you take a short cut across someones lawn. Don't know where TtfnJohn lives, but I'm pretty sure we both reside on what is known as "the part of the planet that isn't the USA."
    Would also like to add that in my end of the world, we don't think of people that flies into fits of rage about someone walking on their lawn as "protecting their property," but rather as "complete nut jobs."

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    American Guy, Jul 4th, 2012 @ 11:19am

    Re:

    As much as the U.S. is a PITA, I don't think China taking over the world would necessarily be a good thing. We do have a certain respect for individual liberty here in America that we also tend to push around the world. The Internet wouldn't be nearly the same as it is today if it had grown up in China or even Europe--the First Amendment and America's legal system had a major role in ensuring it remains open and accessible, even if there are now some special interests trying to stop it.

    P.S. - When the heck did Techdirt switch to moderating all anonymous comments??

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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