Question – Would Game Of Thrones be such a cultural phenomenon and talked about so extensively if it were not for people ‘pirating’ it?

I don’t have cable. I can easily afford it, I just choose not to because for 9 months out of the year, I wouldn’t turn my TV on. If I wanted Game of Thrones in HD, I wouldn’t need just an HBO subscription, I would need a Cox cable subscription, an HD package, an HD converter box and an HBO subscription. That is $100 per month for 1 show.

I have no problem giving HBO money. I would give them quite a bit of money, actually. I would give them significantly more than they would get from Cox for my subscription. They just refuse to accept my money unless I give a third party a lot of extra money.

You do know it wasn’t Mike who wrote the article right?

Regarding “legitimate versions”, again, you ignore that people DON’T WANT TO PAY FOR THINGS THEY DON’T WANT/NEED. A cable/satellite subscription to just watch one show is most definitely not the answer. They want just one show. Offer it in other legitimate ways is what they’re saying. Ala iTunes, ala Netflix, ala a Pay Per Download directly from HBO. Something. Anything but “pay for a whole lotta other stuff that you won’t actually watch”.

And please, stop with bad analogies. What does not wanting to marry a girl have to do with wanting to pay for ONE show only? And sorry, but the Porsche analogy is even worse. Why? Because you can get a Porsche for the price of a Chevy. Locally, about a month back, there was some severe thunderstorms with hail. Guess what? You could buy any BMW from the dealership for under $4,000. Were they all damaged? Nope. Some had like a minor dent/ding here or there. Some were beyond worth paying even that much for. A smart consumer shops around. In every industry but the entertainment one can you find what you want at a price that is reasonable and in multiple offerings. EVERY SINGLE OTHER INDUSTRY.

Get some brains, dude. FYI, morals are very subjective. He probably has better morals than you do. That much is evident to me by his not showing up on a high horse like someone…

God, you are fucking retarded.

They really do seem to prefer nothing to something, don’t they?

It’s like the only way I can get rosewood is to buy a car with rosewood accents in it.

Yeah, just buy a bunch of stuff you don’t need or want to get access to the stuff you do. It’s so simple! Assuming it’s available in your area, some people don’t even have the option of paying for a dozen dozen channels they don’t want just to watch this one show.

How is asking for a version you pay HBO for not a legitimate version? Or do you have no notion what-so-ever of what putting so-called and quotes around something actually means? If it’s offered by HBO directly it’s a legit version.

They sure are acting entitled and it’s not in their best interests and It’s sad.

“It collects the money directly instead of forcing the audience to support the show by purchasing a t-shirt they don’t want to wear.”

HAHHAHHAHHAHHHHAAHAHHAHHA

This from the guy that says ‘Hey, just buy basic cable so you can buy HBO.’

What a fucking joke.

By your inane logic if you took the torrent only shows and put them on HBO and took the HBO shows and made them torrent-only the two groups would magically flip positions on cultural significance.

The point of the article is that the only legit version is overpriced and unavailable completely in many areas. It doesn’t solve the customers problem of how to get legit access to the show.

Rights on both side are completely irrelevant to the discussion. You can scream about morals until you’re blue in the face and it’s not going to change anything about the consequences of HBO’s decision. It’s costing them money because they’re stuck in the past and are too stubborn to change.

When HBO starts maintaining the cable lines to your house, hires an army of vans to drive around your neighborhood to install HBO-Cable, then you can get HBO by itself. And it will be $100 a month.

Until then you have to pay the people who do these things, your cable company. HBO just piggybacks off of this service that’s offered by your cable company. And that’s the reason you can’t get it by itself.

Remember ON tv, where you had a box that just said off & ON You basically paid for ONE channel, and guess what, it wasn’t $15

While I agree that HBO is dumb for not offering episodes of their shows via iTunes, etc. That’s their choice. And it doesn’t justify pirating the show.

When The Sopranos was on, I didn’t watch it because I didn’t have HBO. I did however wait until after all the seasons were out on DVD and bought all 7 seasons USED for I think about $75. And because I bought them used, HBO saw no revenue from me, and I got to watch the show. I now have all the discs and I can rip them, loan them or use them as frisbees if I so choose to.

You can play by the rules and still stick it to the man.

Honestly I am getting tired of these sleazy pirates justifying their actions by saying things like ” Make it available for all ” etc etc.
Here are the facts:

HBO follows a business model where people *MUST* buy their premium services for watching their shows. IF you don’t like this model,wait for the DVD/Bluray release or DON”T WATCH THE SHOW.PERIOD. Don’t justify your piracy actions.

“So this gives them the right to take it? I want to pay for a BMW, but I want it at a Chevy price. What? BMW won’t give it to me for that price? I’m just going to take it. I love your morals.”

Chevy prices to be found?
Nope
BMW cost?
1 million
Who can afford it?
A certain type of people
Why?
Quick buck or million……per transaction…..maximum gain
Will i support this business mentality as an AVERAGE consumer?
FUCK NO, you puppet, Id rather buy second hand, thankyou fucking much,

and if anyone here is drinking thE “koolaid” my delusional corporate “friend”, that’ll be the one preaching the words of a system set up to butt rape the AVERAGE consumer, all the while saying

please sir, can i have some more

You cant apply the “koolaid” defence on those with an independant thought, which happens to be the same independant thoughts going through other independant thinking peoples

Implying that we are influenced by an organisation such as google for instance would be in your part either ignorant, a lie, or just your pathetic attempt at propaganda

Bob, you are either well off, or you do not consume nearly enough media to realise the amount of money it would take to view ALL media available around the world

Corporations would have an interest in limiting said media in order to maximise profit, in the internet age, thats fucking redundant

Whats that bob?…..enti……enti….entitlement, you say

Its called progress, the same kind of progress that allowed hollywood to set up shop all those years ago, away from those looking to cash in on other peoples sucess, or be crushed under the pressure by the status quo

Seems history is repeating its self, and in this case, your role at the moment is to stifle hollywods sucess

You know what ignore everything ive just said, this next bit feels alot more satisfying

DUMBASS

“I don’t buy HBO. I don’t think it’s worth it. But if there’s a show I want to see, I wait until it’s out on DVD. That’s their business model and they’re entitled to it. “

Yeah, because everything always automatically comes out on DVD. Pray, tell, where can I purchase a (legit) full/uncut copy of Song of the South by Disney? Oh thats right, its NEVER BEEN RELEASED ON HOME VIDEO. It is not always a given, so just “waiting” isn’t always a solution. How about region-restricted sales? Want to share your glorious wisdom on how someone is supposed to “buy” a DVD not offered AT ALL in their part of the world? What, they should move to another COUNTRY if they want to see it? Or do you just pull the “they will just have to do without” card, because thats a GREAT way to build an audience and sell your product: fuck them if they can’t see it.

While I agree that HBO is dumb for not offering episodes of their shows via iTunes, etc. That’s their choice. And it doesn’t justify pirating the show.

No one’s saying it’s justified. They’re saying it’s happening.

the economy is still evolving, so sad it doesn’t fit with your view of “economic justice”

“IF you don’t like this model,wait for the DVD/Bluray release or DON”T WATCH THE SHOW.PERIOD. Don’t justify your piracy actions.”

I’d rather wait for an upstart company to make and improve a NEW business model, which caters to ALL consumers, including those brushed aside by the old stagnate ways

Would a company, catering to the needs and wants of a market, which happens to be in direct competition to a long standing and well established media corporation/s, ever be allowed to flourish, i dont know, why dont you ask Mr Dotcom, and the very early stages of his attempt

Theres is a market, if they choose to ignore it, then they deserve to loose profit, if they continue to abuse their established influence in the market to block other companies who want to cater to that market, a market, artificially created by these established media companies

And its not all about piracy, cheaper second hand products for will do just as well

“Thats business” is not gonna cut it, when that “business” is actively blocked from evolving

+1 for deadwood

Yes, do please continue to preach the holding back of progress one shiny piece of plastic at a time.

Market dictates. Fail to meet its needs at your own peril.

“Pray, tell, where can I purchase a legit copy of your diaries, journals, tax records, or unfinished novel? What? You think it’s your right to do what you want with your papers? Oh my. You probably think that it’s wrong for the government to spy on your communications too.

My feeling is that it’s their choice. They made. They put the money up. They can choose to do what they want. Just like you can choose what to do with your creations.”

Uh uh, no, thats not the same, you don’t get to roll out something that ridiculous and get away with it.

If you have private, unfinished, etc work that is NOT the same as a product you release to the public for consumption. To conflate the two as a way to counter my question is specious and misleading.

When you put something out for the public to consume (paid or not) you get certain LIMITED rights via copyright. It’s not a blanket set of absolute control. If you are so concerned with infringing or unpaid consumption, then DON’T RELEASE IT. Just like no one is holding a gun to my head to consume it, no one is holding a gun to your head to put it out there either. If you put something out, one of 3 things happens:

1) The public ignores it and it doesnt sell (this is what happens to the VAST majority of stuff out there, and is THE single biggest problem, not piracy)

2) The public likes it and wants to see/consume it, but can’t due to factors like restricted access, limited funds, region blocks, waiting a year for DVD etc. This leads to piracy. Most piracy is less about price than these other factors. If you block a country of 65 million people from being able to see your show, don’t be surprised if they find other means. Thats a lot of potential viewers that are just cut off from the get-go.

3) The public likes it and pays for it in some manner (if there is a method for them to do so.)

#1 is what happens in 95% of all creative output. #2 is what mostly happens when something is popular and indeed usually contributes to the popularity despite the restrictions.

You still didn’t answer my question: where can I get Song of the South? I have money, ready to buy. If I can’t buy, which option do you think will happen? If it has NEVER BEEN available, then it has been abandoned as a product. Please explain how I am morally or ethically wrong in doing so when there is NO other legit option to be had?

“Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s just another rationalization. First,
the cheapskates around here said they would stop pirating once there was an easy to use system. Then they changed their tune with iTunes came along. “

Horseshit. I have netflix, I pay for whatever I can watch there. Gladly too. I don’t seem to be alone in this, as there are many others who do as well.

Your iTunes example is bogus. No one ever said it would “stop” piracy. What it DID do, and the lesson that Big Media seems to not be able to get, is it MONETIZED a lot of them and created a NEW revenue stream where there wasn’t one before. Seems this is a lesson you don’t get either.

“It’s just too inefficient.”

Wow. You’re a full blown parody of yourself at this point.

What’s the difference from HBO’s perspective between infringing and doing without?

Nothing.

You haven’t seen the evidence because you’re willfully blind to it. It’s been presented over and over. Just type HADOPI into the search box up at the top right and you’ll get a list with an article near the top with evidence that the raise of effective content delivery results in less infringement. You just have to open your eyes and read it.

4:3 isn’t square [/pedant].

P.S I’ll be back after I’ve checked your grammar.

I don’t have cable. I don’t even want cable. Game of Thrones is the only thing on cable I’m currently interested in watching.

My cable provider’s cheapest package that you can get HBO with (they won’t give you any premium channels if you have the VERY cheapest package) is $64/month. HD is $10 extra. HBO is another $20, so in order to watch Game of Thrones in HD I’d have to pay $94/month for cable and HBO.

There is literally no way I can legally obtain access to the show without paying $94/month. Well, I guess I could watch it in standard def… for the low, low price of $84/month.

Seriously I’d pay for this show on iTunes or Amazon or whatever if they’d let me, but they won’t.

3 Shows x 4 Eps/mo = 12 episodes. 16/12= $1.33 per show/episode. That’s pretty reasonable man. Think of the hourly cost of other things you happily pay for. I’m not arguing that HBO isn’t making bad decisions, but you sound kind of ridiculous whining about that aspect.

You can get sky atlantic.

think the iron price is you keep what you take, by any means necessary…

It’s not three shows per month, every month, it’s three shows per year. The real figures would be:

3(shows) * ~12 episodes/year = 36 episodes/year
$16/month * 12months/year = $192/year.

The average would be: $192/36 = ~$5.33/episode.

If you live in Australia, you wait 2 weeks for series 2. Completely different story for series 1, I’m told.

As an American who waited over a year for several BBC shows to arrive here while all my friends online were busy getting excited about them, I sympathize with people in markets where local stations wait until the first series is long done abroad before checking the ratings and deciding to buy. The gap tends to close a bit after that for popular shows, but I’ve seen shows where even series 2 or 3 weren’t available until months after airing. In the internet age, that’s not the first local release – it’s syndication.

You are using the term “science” but committing a scientific or logical error, the fallacy of false equivalence.

You are implying there is a binary choice either torrent only (which you claim will be a failure), or TV only (which they have gone for).

You miss the obvious third option which is to allow both TV access and downloading access. Remember torrenting or downloading don’t have to be illegal. Look at bittorrent.co m – a legal torrenting site, or hulu.com – a TV downloading service.

The scientific method says nothing at all about the paywall being part of the cultural significance of the show. Indeed I would argue against that notion based on the data available.

Fact: Piracy exists. Fact: Many pirates won’t pay for everything they pirate, regardless of their means or how much they like the product. Fact: Many people will continue to pirate; tough titties, bob, HBO. Fact: Should HBO make their products available via the internet like 90% of all other content providers. They’d be tapping a new revenue stream and would open themselves up to new customers. They may lose a few subscribers, but so what? They’d just be moving to their new service. Fact: HBO isn’t changing right now, so they’re not making money they could be. Sucks to be them.

Iron price doesn’t mean murder, it means taking what’s yours. Piracy could be considered paying the iron price.

buy a subscription. hbogo.com

welcome to the 21st century.

So this gives them the right to take it? I want to pay for a BMW, but I want it at a Chevy price. What? BMW won’t give it to me for that price? I’m just going to take it. I love your morals.

Reading failure, again, bob. The proper analogy would be paying for a Ford, a Chevy, and a garage just to be able to purchase the BMW. But you aren’t really buying anything, you’re just renting.

No, he doesn’t.

You’re a creationist, aren’t you, bob? Still no clue how science actually works, and all the sadder for trying to mimic it here.

…and in some way, Google is there in the background, pulling all the strings in a nefarious attempt to destroy the movie industry, or whatever the hell it is they’re supposed to be doing whenever I can’t find my meds…

If US economic stagnation translates into other countries feeling less pressured into passing US-authored anti-consumer legislation, then I have no problem with that. In fact, please hurry up with it!

You know nothing HBO…

I would gladly pay to watch the show in high definition if there was an option available to pay for it but there isn’t. You think I like downloading the show at 17kb/s when it first hits torrenting sites that night? You think I like stumbling across spoilers on reddit and all over the internet? No.

I would pay something like $4.99/month to watch Game of Thrones HD streaming whenever I want. I don’t have cable.

bob, if you’re such a fan of waiting until something is (never) available, and you did insist that anyone who thinks paywalls stifle innovation should go to Somalia, maybe you should be the better man and move there instead. Go ahead and do without.

I’m in the UK, and I still download GOT. Why? Adverts.

“That’s their business model and they’re entitled to it.”. Excuse me but not anymore, it’s not how business works. They’re supposed to be providing a good service for the customer, full stop, shouldn’t need incentive. As if that wasn’t enough, people have been given free access to their product so I’d say it’s in their best interest to try and compete at a reasonable level and try to bring some people over. Instead they practically say: “pay for an outdated product that you can’t / don’t use or fuck right off”. Let me get home from work, watch the programs at my own pace and in my own time and they can have my money.

I’m bob! I’m a complete moron who doesn’t have the slightest clue about anything! Not the nature of digital technology, or disruptive innovation, or anything! I just love Big! Gotta be Big, Big, Big! I hate change! I hate consumers! I love money and profits! And I wish I could be a Ferengi, because that’s who I am in spirit if not in body! Like all maximalists, I know all the Rules of Acquisition by heart, if not by word, because I live them every day! I am a maximalist! Reason, sanity, and decency are not nor will they ever be part of my character! Whee! Big Copyright! Big Boneheads! Big Backwards-Thinkers! That’s what we maximalists are! WAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

When I buy a box of cookies, it is usually not filled with 99% of indedible trash and one tasty cookie. If I’m paying for cookies, I want all of them to be tasty, thank you very much.

The road model doesn’t really hold up either, since it’s a government service that everybody HAS to pay for. Period. Just to remind you, we’re talking about a luxury service provider that is using an antiquated distribution model and would rather try to legislate stasis than adapt. Kind of (but not exactly) like the movie studios that didn’t adopt sound.

Going back to your car analogy, it’s not a matter of wanting to pay a Chev price for a BMW; it’s a matter of having to also buy a Chev, Ford, Smart, VW, Honda, Nissan, Mercedes and Audi to be able to get the BMW. Hence why physical product analogies don’t work well with describing electronic media distribution/sales models.

Maga-what? Who on earth still reads physical magazines? It’s been easily 15-20 years since I’ve read a magazine, much less had a subscription. I was 13 when I figured out that they were little more than targeted marketing systems, with only just barely enough content to make it so that gullible people would pay for them. This is an honest question to the thread at large: does anyone actually think that print magazines are at all relevant?

And, please pardon the poor thread etiquette, to comment on your post in #109: I never published any of those. They are private documents and are not intended for public view. HBO’s reason for existing is to publish media. Again, perhaps you might want to re-think your analogies. I have no interest in an HBO exec’s diaries or tax forms.

What is missing from this article is that the cable networks won’t let the premium channels do what your asking for.

Do you think Comcast or Verizon could survive pay channels selling directly to the customer? And would HBO/SHO continue to survive without the marketing and security cable providers give to their network?

One little problem.
There isn’t HBO here in my city at all(hint:I’m not in USA,and btw, my mother prefer to see GOT with voice dub in language she COULD understood(and on Wendsdays such version is usually becomes available)
So which legal options I have?

HBO have been poisoning torrents for a long time, at least five years. To this day they are still at it. But I cannot understand why they think there is a point. The Bittorrent world figured out as soon as it started how to work around this problem with block lists. Today I think the popular clients have been designed to efficiently block sources of contaminated data without any user intervention. When I see an apparently poisoned HBO torrent with way too many seeders, there’s not the same string of comments complaining about download speed, and I have no speed problems with a current version of uTorrent.
Also, I think they are still sending out threatening letters. Today they are only catching new users or perhaps the very lazy. Anyone who wants to use bittorrent without the risk of this happening should just buy VPN service from one of the many providers. For about $6/mo on an annual plan, there is no way for some HBO corporate hacker to find your IP address and start bothering you.
I wonder what they are accomplishing by continuing these efforts to slow torrents and menace downloaders. I am inclined to think they are being sold a bill of goods by the companies that provide these services, and that they are being downloaded just as much as companies that don’t do these ineffectual measures.