Bad Lawsuit, Worse Timing: Beastie Boys Sued Over Infringing Samples On Seminal Albums

from the well-that's-just-goddamn-lovely,-isn't-it? dept

Well, this is just sad. When we reported the unfortunate news of Adam "MCA" Yauch's death, we pointed to the EFF's call for an appropriate tribute to the beloved artist: an end to the legal war on sampling. The Beastie Boys produced some of the earliest sample-based music—including their seminal Paul's Boutique, widely seen as one of the best and most influential albums ever—just before the courts started coming down hard on sampling, more or less entirely tossing out the concepts of fair use, transformative work and de minimis copying that should protect samplers in many cases. Most experts agree that, today, an album like Paul's Boutique could never be officially released, since licensing the hundreds of samples used would cost exorbitant amounts—but that hasn't diminished the album's importance, nor has it stopped countless producers from continuing to work with unlicensed samples and release their work as bootlegs. In other words, the law does not match reality: sampling is a valid and vital form of creativity that can and will continue, even though nowadays it's either impossibly pricey or just illegal. What better tribute could there be to one of the fathers of sample-based music than to finally officially legitimize it as the important (and amazing) art form that it is?

Instead, we get the opposite. AllHipHop reports that, in a bout of incredibly unlucky timing, music label Tuf America filed a copyright lawsuit against the Beastie Boys the day before Yauch's passing. At issue are samples from Licensed to Ill and Paul's Boutique, which Tuf America claims were taken from a handful of their songs.

Tuf America said they did a thorough sound analysis of the tracks in question and concluded that the Beastie Boys illegally incorporated elements of the songs without permission.

To complicate the matter, Tuf America claims The Beasties and Capitol Records continue to profit off the album, by way of anniversary and commemorative releases of Licensed To Ill and Paul’s Boutique, which was released in 1989.

Tuf America is seeking a trial to determine the amount of punitive and exemplary damages, if any.

One would think that the simple fact that a "thorough sound analysis" was necessary means this is clearly a case of transformative work, but unfortunately, as mentioned, the courts have pretty much completely eliminated that defense when it comes to sampling. Moreover, where has Tuf America been this whole time? The Beastie Boys albums came out in 1986 and 1989, and now, a quarter-century later, Tuf America is claiming they deserve a payout? Their legal argument will, by necessity, rely on significant rulings that came out after the albums, which were released under the common sense assumption of the time: that sampling was creative and transformative art that didn't require a license.

The timing here is almost certainly just bad luck, and Tuf America must be rather worried about the PR nightmare this will surely incite. However I can't say I feel that bad for them: even setting aside Yauch's death, I find their actions despicable. They are attacking a piece of classic art just to cash in on someone else's success. If the Tuf samples were really so integral to the success of the Beastie Boys albums, then they would have had plenty of opportunities to capitalize on that over the last two decades. Instead they chose a legalistic get-rich-quick scheme. Shameful.

Last month, when 50 Cent was sued over a sample on a free mixtape he released, I asked when hip-hop's biggest stars will start speaking up about copyright and educating their fans about the fact that the music they love and respect is, in the eyes of the courts, illegal. This new incident might just kick off that process—nobody is going to be happy about what Tuf America is doing, and a lot of people who had no idea that sampling is illegal are going to see the coverage of this lawsuit (which is sure to be far greater than for your average sampling lawsuit) and discover just how broken the law is.

I truly hope this confluence of events can kick-start the necessary momentum to start fixing copyright law and getting the courts to recognize the validity (and fair use/transformative aspects) of sampling. This is not about capitalizing on Yauch's death—he and the Beastie Boys helped open the world's eyes to a rich and unique new approach to music that informed everything that came after, with samples finding their way into countless genres beyond hip-hop and becoming, essentially, an exciting new instrument that musicians everywhere started teaching themselves to play. The introduction of sampling was as important as that of distorted guitars or electric keyboards, and changed music just as much—but since day one, legal respect for sampling has been in steady decline and is now virtually zilch. It would be a wonderful thing if, amidst the tragedy of Yauch's death, we were able to help him give the world one more gift: a new attitude about sampling that will allow the next generation's Beastie Boys to pursue their artistic ideas without fear of being randomly sued 20 years later.



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  1.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 9:24am

    Isn't there a statue of limitations on this?

    Most criminal laws have statues of limitations shorter then 25 years, so surely the same should be true here, with civil law.

     

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  2.  
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    Leigh Beadon (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 9:28am

    Re:

    There is a statute of limitations, but the clock doesn't start until the infringement stops. In other words, until the albums are actually no longer available for sale anywhere, they are still liable for infringement.

     

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  3.  
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    gorehound (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 9:41am

    More BS from Asshole Corporate and/or Sleazy wanna be Rich Greedsters.
    My best advice is to go INDIE and never Buy anything from a shyster.Support those Artists who support being Open-Minded , DIY , and Non-Corporate

     

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  4.  
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    Anon, May 8th, 2012 @ 9:47am

    It isn't enough that Adam and Mike just lost their Brother, and the rest of us lost our crazy Uncle that we only got to hear every 5 or 6 years, now this...

    LTI, not my favorite Beastie Boys album but sold a gazillion copies. Paul's Boutique, the album that's on everyone's list to bring with them to the deserted island! How could they have gone this long on this earth and not realized that there were samples of their artist(s) on the album.

    Tuf, do the good, honorable, thing here and just let it go. We know you didn't know Yauch was going to die. While it was stupid to bring the lawsuit in the first place, it happened. So now, to protect yourself from artists' leaving you over this, fans around the world being extremely pissed off at you, and you having to go to court and testify that you Juuuust found these samples. Just drop it. Seriously, let it go.

     

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  5.  
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    Trails (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 9:50am

    We R Thug 4 Life

    We keeps it reelz at TufAmerica, with an in yo face fresh attitude. Wez all abouts da musik and making phat beats that r dope n shiznit! We are all about da g thang, unless you have a successful album then we will money grab through copyright law in order to tax your success because that sounds an awful lot like a 4/4 beat on a bass drum which we invented in the early 80s.

    Tuf!!!!

     

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  6.  
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    John Doe, May 8th, 2012 @ 9:50am

    I hate to say I told you so...

    ...but I told you so. I posted on that article that weren't out of the woods yet and unfortunately I was right. He will be looking over his shoulder in the grave for 70 more years.

     

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  7.  
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    Kingster (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 9:51am

    Let them know...

    I suggest we all let them know what we think of their sleaziness here: Contact Form

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 9:53am

    The fan base will have their heads for this, I'm guessing. What a poorly-timing example of douchery.

     

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  9.  
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    Ruud (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 9:58am

    Wikipedia's entry on Paul's Boutique:
    Contrary to popular belief, most of the sampling for Paul's Boutique was cleared, but at excessively lower costs compared to the statutory rates of today.

    Extensive sound analysis of any song will reveal a similarity with other songs. The only way to prevent this is to invent new notes and new instruments to play them on for each new song.

     

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  10.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:05am

    Re: Re:

    There is a statute of limitations, but the clock doesn't start until the infringement stops. In other words, until the albums are actually no longer available for sale anywhere, they are still liable for infringement.

    Arguments could (and I suspect, will) be made that the lack of a lawsuit for all this time was tacit acceptance and a failure to minimize the "harm." Either way, I'd imagine they may only be able to go after recent infringement, but with massive statutory damages, that may not matter.

     

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    Leigh Beadon (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:07am

    Re:

    I've heard different notions on exactly how many samples were cleared compared to how many weren't, but the album definitely had both. Also, the fact that the rates were lower was partially that nobody had recognized the value yet, but also because it wasn't yet clear if sampling would qualify as fair use - and record labels weren't necessarily eager to push the issue lest a judge declare it to be okay. The two primary rulings that got rid of all the defences for sampling could have easily gone the other way - both were entirely subjective and included some pretty questionable opinions (like the judge's statement that requiring licenses for all samples doesn't hamper creativity in any meaningful way). Those cases ruined everything for everyone, and enabled the labels to start charging much higher rates because they now had a pretty solid legal guarantee that nobody could fight back.

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 10:08am

    Please stop using the term 'seminal'... because yes, it does refer back to semen.

     

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  13.  
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    btr1701 (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:11am

    Re: Re: Re:

    > Arguments could (and I suspect, will) be made
    > that the lack of a lawsuit for all this time
    > was tacit acceptance and a failure to minimize
    > the "harm."

    Too bad those arguments weren't available to Men At Work down under. Or if they were, they weren't successful.

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 10:11am

    Re: Let them know...

    Done.

     

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  15.  
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    Leigh Beadon (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:12am

    Re:

    Please stop using the term 'seminal'... because yes, it does refer back to semen.

    Damn straight. The hip-hop scene has been having Paul's Boutique's babies for over 20 years.

     

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  16.  
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    btr1701 (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:15am

    Re:

    > Please stop using the term 'seminal'...
    > because yes, it does refer back to semen.

    No, it doesn't. The two words just share the same Latin root. One does not 'refer back' to the other.

     

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  17.  
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    iamtheky (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:20am

    Re:

    Please stop using homonyms, because yes, they refer back to homos.

     

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  18.  
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    Leigh Beadon (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:21am

    Re: Re:

    No, it doesn't. The two words just share the same Latin root. One does not 'refer back' to the other.

    I think he's right actually. Etymonline has it originally defined as "of seed or semen" in the 14th century...

    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=seminal&allowed_in_frame=0

     

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  19.  
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    Todd, May 8th, 2012 @ 10:23am

    Heh heh. Seminal.

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 10:24am

    Re: Re:

    > Please stop using the term 'seminal'...
    > because yes, it does refer back to semen.

    No, it doesn't. The two words just share the same Latin root. One does not 'refer back' to the other.


    Umm, actually it does:
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/seminal
    adjective
    1. pertaining to, containing, or consisting of semen.
    2. Botany . of or pertaining to seed.
    3. having possibilities of future development.
    4. highly original and influencing the development of future events: a seminal artist; seminal ideas.

     

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  21.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:28am

    Re: Let them know...

    Done.

     

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  22.  
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    RickMan (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:29am

    What's the difference

    What's the difference between punitive and exemplary damages, since the definition of punitive and exemplary damages contains punitive or punishment to discourage a repeat or others from doing the same thing.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 10:33am

    I'm a bit baffled that the recent death (under mysterious circumstances that could quite possibly be suicide) of Men at Work's Greg Ham has gotten so little attention. As you know he and the band were at the losing end of a similar lawsuit in Australia by Larrikin which saw their hit song's legacy forever tarnished by a despicable late stage cash grab. Greg was deeply upset that his work would forever now be tainted with this false accusation that he "stole" a melody from a goddamn folk song. These types of lawsuits are absolutely contrary to the way real creativity works in the arts. In Greg's case it might seem that the lawsuit might have been a big part of his untimely death. This whole issue makes me sick to my stomach.

     

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  24.  
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    btr1701 (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:45am

    Re: Re: Re:

    > Umm, actually it does:

    No, it doesn't. Your own dictionary quote shows that the word has an entirely independent definition when used in this particular context.

     

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  25.  
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    GMacGuffin (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 10:51am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Laches, folks.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 10:54am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I was about to say the same thing. This seems like exactly what laches was intended to cover.

     

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  27.  
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    dwg (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 11:09am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Third!

     

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  28.  
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    dwg (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 11:12am

    Re: Let them know...

    Done, complete with mention of malicious prosecution.

     

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  29.  
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    Cory of PC (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 11:13am

    Re: Let them know...

    And... done!

     

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  30.  
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    dwg (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 11:16am

    Re: What's the difference

    Synonyms. Also synonymous with "bitchslap."

     

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  31.  
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    dwg (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 11:17am

    Notable: lack of trolls on this post

    I'm just saying. Hats off for keeping quiet this time around.

     

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  32.  
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    Bengie, May 8th, 2012 @ 11:19am

    Re: Re:

    'homo' in your context is a shorted slag for a full word and does not support your example.

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 11:21am

    ought to be ashamed, Tuf America. absolutely pathetic!!

     

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  34.  
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    aldestrawk (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 11:27am

    early sampling

    My favorite album that uses a lot of sampling was one of the earliest uses of sampling, Brian Eno and David Byrnes 1981 collaboration on "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts". A brilliant set of songs! I am now wondering if they will see some sort of lawsuit.

     

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  35.  
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    Cory of PC (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 11:40am

    Timing...

    OK, I do want to say that this might sound wrong, but I do think this is something along the lines of "good" timing... in a sense. Granted it's still wrong that Tuf America did this right before Yauch's death, but if somehow the Beastie Boys come out of this with a win, we might be seeing that tribute to Yauch in a form of less (or no) sampling laws, and maybe free samples to celebrate the win. So in a sense, it's kinda a good thing that this lawsuit came about. If the Beastie Boys win, then there's that likelihood that some reform to the sampling laws will come out of this lawsuit.

    OK I know this isn't good on how I'm explaining and I know this is coming at a very bad time, but I do like to dig around and try to find something positive out of this. With me reading all about the RIAA's cases lately and getting my anger up, I think this is kinda a change of pace for me that I noticed that there might be a silver lining to this war between the artists, consumers and corporations. Again, if the Beastie Boys were to win this lawsuit, there is that chance that reform will come out of this case. Of course it's likely (I won't say highly since I don't have that much knowledge about court cases) that Tuf America will lose this case, but there's always a chance that they will come out of this with a win and there will be stronger regulation on current, or even new, sampling laws. Hopefully we won't be seeing that anytime soon.

    I'll be keeping my eye on this subject. I can't recall if I heard a sample from them (or anyone for that matter), so this has gotten my interest and I'll be supporting the Beastie Boys until the bitter end.

     

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  36.  
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    Killer_Tofu (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 11:41am

    Re: Let them know...

    Note sent.

     

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  37.  
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    Josef Anvil (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 12:20pm

    I hope they win

    I'm actually hoping that Tuf America wins and hits Capitol Records with the statutory fine of $750 - $30,000 per infringement.

    Maybe if Capitol Records has to pay $100 million + for the total amount of records they sold that were infringing, they would begin to understand the insanity of copyright law. They've OBVIOUSLY cost Tuf America at least $100 million in lost sales.

    Who are Tuf America????

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 12:28pm

    Re: Let them know...

    Done.

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 12:46pm

    Mad Men

    And in other news, it was just announced that Mad Men has licensed a single Beatles song for use in an episode for $250,000, which is 5 times what the going rate for a song is. Obviously, the Mad Men producers felt they needed the song to evoke an era, but this might give the record companies the idea that they're not charging enough for licensing now.

     

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  40.  
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    Colin, May 8th, 2012 @ 12:56pm

    Re: Let them know...

    Just out of curiosity, did anyone invite them to write to Mike and explain their line of reasoning? Could be interesting to hear why they're just now pursuing this.

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 1:27pm

    Re: Re: Let them know...

    I sent them a link to this story along with my outrage.

     

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  42.  
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    The Groove Tiger (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 1:57pm

    Re: What's the difference

    Punitive, to punish. Basically, take money from them out of spite (because what they did... it's just wrong, man!) rather than any "losses" that could be proven.

    Exemplary, to make an example of. Make the damages so big that everyone will be afraid of ever considering doing the same thing.

     

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  43.  
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    Anon, May 8th, 2012 @ 2:56pm

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/arts-post/post/beastie-boys-sued-over-trouble-funk-samples-legen dary-go-go-band-was-unaware-of-lawsuit-or-adam-mca-yauchs-death/2012/05/08/gIQAtrLzAU_blog.html

    " With Yauch’s death on Friday, the timing couldn’t have been worse. Trouble Funk leader “Big Tony” Fisher tells the Post that he wasn’t aware that the Beastie Boys had even sampled their songs, but knew Tuff City was working on Trouble Funk’s behalf. “We’ve been signed with Tuff City publishing company over 10 years and they’re pretty much going after people that have been using and abusing our stuff without our permission,” Fisher said.

    Even worse, Fisher was unaware of Yauch’s death.

    “Wow, I’m sorry to hear that,” Fisher said. “We toured with the Beastie Boys and I like ’em. They’re good cats. And they really admired the band. I’m so sorry to hear that.”

    A representative for the Beastie Boys was away for “family bereavement” and was unavailable for comment."

     

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  44.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 3:09pm

    Re: Re:

    Someone called me?

     

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  45.  
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    JohnnyChavello, May 8th, 2012 @ 4:15pm

    Fair use and sampling

    You write that courts have "more or less entirely [tossed] out the concepts of fair use, transformative work and de minimis copying that should protect samplers in many cases."

    This is only true with respect to de minimis copying (and even there, only in the sixth circuit), but not at all true with respect to fair use. Fair use's roots in the common law are as old as copyright law itself. There is no particular type of work (music or otherwise) that is outside of the scope of fair use in and of itself and I don't know of a single copyright case that would even suggest it.

     

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  46.  
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    dwg (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 4:39pm

    Re: Fair use and sampling

    How is the removal of the de minimis concept NOT a huge chunk taken out of fair use, when one of the 4 factors is the amount of a work used?

     

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  47.  
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    Leigh Beadon (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 4:55pm

    Re: Fair use and sampling

    Hey Johnny - I actually responded to you in the Beasties forum, didn't notice you'd come here as well :) I'll re-paste what I said there:

    ---

    You definitely have a point here. I was a little annoyed when I read the news and wrote the post, so I was quite forceful in my language - but I still do mean something when I say the courts wiped out fair use in sampling

    I'm referring to the bright-line "get a license or don't sample" ruling from Bridgeport, which clearly struck down de minimis, but was also issued without any analysis of the fair use issue (mainly for procedural reasons). To quote from Jason Mazzone's book Copyfraud:

    An especially troubling consequence of the Bridgeport case is that its bright-line rule—“Get a license or do not sample”—comes without any analysis of fair use. Because the lower court applied the de minimis standard and found no infringement, it did not consider whether the fair use defense applied. On appeal, the Sixth Circuit panel declined to decide whether the sample at issue was protected by fair use because it wanted the lower court to consider that issue first upon remand of the case. However, after the Sixth Circuit’s decision, the dispute settled. There was, therefore, never a fair use ruling in the case. It is unfortunate that a seemingly decisive decision by a federal appellate court on the lawfulness of sampling comes without any consideration of whether fair use protects sampling.

    Here, a difference between the doctrine of de minimis copying and fair use matters a great deal. The doctrine of de minimis copying is a judge-made rule. In the final analysis, it is the prerogative of courts to tailor the doctrine as they see fit. Fair use, however, is a statutory provision that binds judges. It limits, without exception, all the exclusive rights of copyright owners. Some copying from copyrighted recordings is, necessarily, fair use. Because of the procedural history of Bridgeport, however, we never learn if fair use protects the defendants’ use of the sample from Funkadelic’s tune. The unsurprising result is that copyright owners (and samplers themselves) treat Bridgeport as standing for the proposition that all sampling is infringement. Even though the Copyright Act protects fair use of all species of copyrighted works, a legal decision on the question of de minimis copying enables copyright owners to assert that there is no fair use when it comes to sound recordings.

    Subsequent case law has also not dealt squarely with the fair use issue. Although the Sixth Circuit has decided a slew of additional disputes involving litigation by Bridgeport Music, it has never decided whether sampling is protected by fair use. Another federal court could disagree with the Sixth Circuit and find that the de minimis doctrine applies to sampling. A different court could also find that sampling is protected by fair use. But Bridgeport has cast a wide shadow, and rather than go before a (different) court to test the legality of sampling, producers have instead opted to obtain sampling licenses. While courts have held that fair use applies to compositions, courts have provided no guidance on when sampling from an existing sound recording constitutes fair use. Says Philo T. Farnsworth, the owner of a label that releases sampled recordings, “We’d love to see a court case or legislation recognize transformative sampling as fair use. As of this moment it seems to exist in a very gray area.”


    The industry seems to have shaped itself around Bridgeport, and though most sampling on free mixtapes goes ignored (though 50 Cent was recently sued over one) all commercial stuff gets licensed. Thankfully, as you say, and as Mazzone says, there are still plenty of ways that fair use could be re-asserted in the courts - but at the moment, thanks to the far-reaching implications of Bridgeport, it is effectively toothless when it comes to sampling.

     

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  48.  
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    Leigh Beadon (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 4:59pm

    Re: Fair use and sampling

    Anyway I see you replied there -- we can just keep this conversation in one place!

     

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  49.  
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    doomcup (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 5:21pm

    Re: Let them know...

    Done. Thanks for linking this.

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 6:43pm

    They are attacking a piece of classic art just to cash in on someone else's success.

    Hmmmmmm, that's probably what the samplee thinks of the sampler.

     

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  51.  
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    Lauriel (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 7:27pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Just because it shares the same root word doesn't mean it shares the same definition. In your link, it also states that the figurative use of "full of possibilities" has been in use since the 1630s.

    Semen is the latin root for seed. We also use seed as an idea, not just in terms of semen, but also plant seeds, the seed of an idea, etc.

    Seminar also has the same root word, and has it's origins as the definition of a nursery or breeding ground.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=seminar

    Both meanings have morphed, like many words. A seed becomes an idea, and a nursery becomes a place where the seeds (ideas) are planted and nurtured (seminar, seminary, etc).

    Seminal now can be used, perfectly correctly and acceptably, as "Highly influential in an original way; constituting or providing a basis for further development: a seminal idea in the creation of a new theory".
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/seminal

    Short version: You are both correct. Both meanings are applicable. :)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, May 8th, 2012 @ 7:29pm

    Re:

    Funny how I've never heard of Trouble Funk. Yet, I believe I've heard those Beastie Boys. Perhaps talent and persistence had something to do with it?
    Every musical artist stands on the shoulders of giants, or diminutive giants...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    icon
    Lauriel (profile), May 8th, 2012 @ 8:47pm

    Re: Re:

    +1 on that.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  
    identicon
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 8th, 2012 @ 9:56pm

    Re: Please stop using the term 'seminal'... because yes, it does refer back to semen.

    We need to have a seminar on that.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    icon
    Jesse Townley (profile), May 9th, 2012 @ 12:51am

    Re: Re:

    Trouble Funk are pretty crucial- if they used a sample I've no doubt that the Beastie Boys were paying tribute to them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    icon
    Jesse Townley (profile), May 9th, 2012 @ 1:06am

    This is yet another example...

    ... Of why the issue of sampling drives me crazy.

    I get that "Ice Ice Baby" & "Can't Touch This" rely on complete melody lines (Queen & Rick James), but smaller samples should be fair use without a question based on the changing of the context of the sample.

    I'm showing my age when I admit that it took me years after hearing "Licensed To Ill" & "Paul's Boutique" before I found even a handful of the original songs. It's been like an Easter egg hunt- "Oh, that's from War!" and "Tower Of Power, of COURSE!"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    icon
    Leigh Beadon (profile), May 9th, 2012 @ 6:47am

    Re:

    Except the sampler isn't holding the samplee hostage with a lawsuit, nor demanding any money. They are creating something new and giving it a shot in the market.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    felix, May 9th, 2012 @ 8:07am

    Re:

    tuf america is indie. its a very small label for soul record reissues.

    if anybody is corporate in this story its the beasties and capitol records.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    icon
    dwg (profile), May 9th, 2012 @ 9:52am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Yea--unfortunately, word up on this one. Trouble Funk is, as the term's been used above, seminal. Saw them in DC before I even saw the Beasties. But if they're backing this suit or even taking a hands-off approach and letting it run its course without objecting, they can expect a COD shipment of all my Trouble Funk vinyl, sent to them c/o Tuf America, whatever Tuf America is.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    CEO, May 9th, 2012 @ 10:31am

    1) Please wikipedia, "Tuff City" & Aaron Fuchs. The man is the pioneer of the hiphop-sample-lawsuit.

    2) ""The Beastie Boys produced some of the earliest sample-based music—including their seminal Paul's Boutique, widely seen as one of the best and most influential albums ever""

    ok -so, before the Great White Pioneering Rappers came along, there was no such Marley Mark, Erik B, Red Alert, and no one had considered stealing the bassline from "Good Times"... Really! And even though Ton Loc and Young M.C. were topping the charts already with sampled music that very year... And the Beasties? Must have been the creative force there... well, because they *hired the same producer* as Ton Loc and Young MC (bold and innovative idea)... because, I mean, there's no reason to give the DUST BROTHERS any credit... I mean, they only have produced 10X more platinum records that the Beasties... and man, Paul's Boutique? WIDELY RECOGNIZED. It only took 10 years for people to start buying it.

    !#($*)@ that sentence has got to be one of the most ignorant "White Man's Revisionist History of HipHop" things I've ever read

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    Trails (profile), May 9th, 2012 @ 12:58pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    All of us have been calling you a homonym behind your back for ages now. Glad it's all out in the open.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Colin S, May 10th, 2012 @ 2:28am

    Statue Of Limitations

    Without knowing which jurisdiction the action has been filed, it's not possible to be definitive but in most jurisdictions the Limitation period clock usually starts from when the plaintiff actually or should reasonably have become aware of the infringement. The purpose of this law is to stop plaintiffs "sitting on their hands". Much will turn on how self-evident the samples are.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, May 10th, 2012 @ 4:11am

    Re: Re: Fair use and sampling

    Maybe include a link to the forum post for the rest of us?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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