Another Error By US Officials May Kill Megaupload Prosecution
from the another-error dept
The number of significant mistakes by law enforcement in the Megaupload case continues to grow, with the latest one being a big one. Apparently, the US judge on the domestic part of this trial has noted that a pretty big problem with the case may mean the trial never actually moves forward at all. You see, you have to actually serve criminal charges, but US officials never served Megaupload — and due to some specifics, the concern is that Megaupload can’t actually be served as a foreign company. So, due to procedural rules, the judge in the case is warning US officials that they may have a significant (to insurmountable) hurdle in actually bringing any case forward. Oops. This is becoming a huge comedy of errors.
Filed Under: criminal charges, procedural error
Companies: megaupload
Comments on “Another Error By US Officials May Kill Megaupload Prosecution”
In the words of Bill Hicks:
“AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA”
*Mission Accomplished*
It’s not as though the US ever cared about bringing criminal charges–they just wanted to terrorize, oop, I mean “scare straight”–all of the file locker sites on the intertubez.
And it worked. The climate of fear has pervaded the varied file lockers which remain; all of them scared they’ll be raided by ‘special forces’ (or some such) and shot with beanbags rounds, dragged out of their house and shipped to the US just so they can not answer to farcical charges.
I do not believe “justice” was ever the point of the MegaUpload raid, it was terror.
Personally, I don’t negotiate with terrorists.
Maybe the government is trying to throw out the case because of technicallities. After realizing how weak their arguement is, they may be trying to get the case thrown out and leave the accusations hanging and “unsolved”, rather than actually face Mega in court.
So when can Megaupload sue the government for damaging its business in excess of $10^70 per day while assets were siezed?
*Mission Accomplished*
Of course their was “justice”, MegaUpload may or may not have done anything they were accused of, but they’re filthy pirates so they’ve probably done something else illegal anyway and they deserve it!
Serving
There are some pieces to the puzzle missing from the news reports. From what I’ve read, Megaupload corporation has not been served but the seven individuals were served. The seven individuals may still be extradited if they acted in criminal conspiracy, which would bring 5 years in jail needed for extradition.
Which just made me think of something. 5 years in jail needed for extradition from NZ. Hmmm. Is that typical? Wasn’t that part of SOPA – raise the criminal penalty to 5 years for streaming? They must have probably chose 5 years so they could make it an extraditable offense under extradition treaties?
*Mission Accomplished*
I agree with you. The point was to get Megaupload offline however the means, and scare the others. It worked.
LOL! Good old Pirate Mike root-root-rooting for his favorite pirate buddy, Kimmy D.
You two were meant for each other. True love.
Re: Re:
someone really needs a new hobby :3
They don't want to go to trial
Consider the terrible precedent that is set if they go to trial and lose. It would be much better for the case to be thrown out on technical grounds so no precedent is set against the government. Precedent would stop them from doing this again.
Will they keep the servers?
If they can’t proceed with the prosecution, will they keep the servers and domain names until they re-file?
Would that be legal?
I would assume MegaUpload will petition the courts to make the Feds return the servers and domain names in that case.
They don't want to go to trial
“Precedent would stop them from having an allegedly legal reason for doing this again.“
FTFY
;-P
And by the way, Pirate Mike, I wouldn’t get too excited. Whether the corporation is a defendant is a different matter than whether your loverboy Kimmy Dotcom is a defendant. This doesn’t affect the charges against him. Hopefully he’ll get conjugal visits so you can bend over for him.
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LAWL LAWL LAWL. Deputy Dipshit AC talking smack about Mike and yet here you are reading his articles. Stupid ass!
LAWL LAWL LAWL
Serving
Yeah its not like Mega was working on an IPO right before the raid happened…oh wait…
Mega let them kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
– Scare the cyberlockers, because their super secret we know your a thief tech can’t track those users. 6 Strikes wasn’t easy to get into place, and cyberlockers undermine it completely.
– Stop Dotcom from opening the music selling service. Taking a flat 10% from each sale and not having a voodoo laden contract to get money for years and years afterwards is a huge threat to the entrenched music dinosaurs. Given the brand recognition Mega had it could have drawn new artists there rather than letting them slave away for the labels.
Several of the more hysterical charges that would be impossible to prove from the indictment all had 5 year possibilities to make sure they had covered their bases with the NZ extradition treaty.
7 individuals do not “own” the servers, Mega does.
The majority of the assets seized are property of the corporation, who can’t be served it appears. It appears to be a foolish attempt to endrun not being able to serve a foriegn corporation by claiming Mega itself was the conspiracy…
The “criminal conspiracy” includes charges of “laundering money”… they took in subscription fees and advertising payments and did the most horrible thing… they paid their server bills. This was called laundering money.
The “criminal conspiracy” is accused of causing billions of dollars of losses to the **AA’s membership, except there is no actual proof of these losses and if they used any previous published study showing losses they will be laughed out of court as every study so far with these huge numbers has been shown to be a comical farce.
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True Love? I don’t know… you set the bar for that pretty high. As far as I’m aware, Kim Dotcom doesn’t comment immediately on every post nor does he have pet names for Mike…
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You know what, I’ve typically been against this, but if a commentor repeatedly comes with absolutely nothing to offer the larger community….do they really need to be here?
I can’t even believe I’m questioning this, but there’s no point to having this bukkake-face around…
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You should realy realy use your internet connection to look up the term ad-hominem arguement. Probably a stretch but if you pore over it long enough you may get it.
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But you’re in the way.
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I can’t wait until technology advances enough so I can reach through the internet and punch you. Sometimes the only response to such stupidity is violence.
seems the only way these morons can achieve anything is by threatening. it sure as hell aint through intelligence and that means either form!
Will they keep the servers?
oh hey… maybe they saw the writing on the wall when they made the claims of kiddie porn being on the servers….
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someones off their meds again…
This made me chuckle a bit.
If the “criminal conspiracy” was the mega corporation, and if mega can’t be charged as a foreign company, then where is the criminal conspiracy? How is something “criminal” when it is deemed untouchable by US law?
(not a law expert, and no sarcasm in those questions. Seriously wondering that, if anyone cares to explain)
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*best Marlon Perkins voice-over voice*
And this was what the scientists feared all along.
When they discovered that the lead we were adding to paint, could have long lasting detrimental effects on children.
And how those effects have come home to roost.
and now we know...
Why the US was so interested in having the data destroyed – if there’s no case, they are eventually going to have to give it back.
From the NZ Herald article
—
Lawyers acting for the US have said they will argue Dotcom should be extradited because he was a member of an organised criminal group, which carries a sentence of five years.
The US Government needs to get over the hurdle of a five-year jail sentence to meet the criteria for extradition. Copyright charges in NZ carry a maximum of four years
—-
So I’m guessing that means there’s going to be a huge amount of pressure on NZ to ratchet up the copyright sentencing guidelines to make things easier for the US in the future.
*Mission Accomplished*
Brony?
Re: *Mission Accomplished*
Yes
love it
I can’t get rid of this massive smile on my face now , what a wonderful end to the week, and the beginning of a wonderful weekend.
Just wondering if the US government will still support the RIAA and cohorts if they have to pay a few billion in loses to mega. Damn good news this. Well not for the American taxpayer , but for the rest of us , very very good news.
And if anything this should encourage cloud services to move out of America and into safe havens where they might also make a few billion if the RIAA comes after them.
and now we know...
Having the data destroyed accomplished many thing.
– It allowed the 47(?) GB of data they extracted be the only “evidence” of what was in the 25 PB of data on the servers.
– It destroyed peoples trust in cyberlockers. People would be less likely to use them knowing they could be wiped clean, and a court wouldn’t care.
– Even when they wheels came off, it meant the recovery of Mega as a brand would be made that much more difficult.
– It kept people focused on how much was there, instead of questioning how the US obtained internal email and calls from the foriegn corporation.
The downsides included…
– DoJ looking like morons after claiming Child Porn on the servers and not wanting to investigate.
– The look of the Government willing to violate an accused right to a fair trial.
– Removed the contents of the server from being used in a civil lawsuit brought by the **AA’s, which I am sure was a consideration in this case being started.
The Government has been caught lying in these types of cases before – DaJaz1 and the Spanish site they took down as being infringing then refused to release information to the lawyers for the accused, and lied to the Judge and media about the owners actually trying to reclaim their property.
Many of the people in DoJ are former **AA or similar special interest group employees. They have thrown the law out the window to pursue vendettas against those these organizations claim are robbing them blind based on evidence of questionable nature.
Great...
Great, can I have my files (and links) back now?
I really, really hope that this whole thing falls over. It would be even better if some action could be taken against the NZ government for being a party to this.
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I hate true love.
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I hate conjugal visits.
Great...
I wonder if the Government is going to bail out Carpathia when one of their largest customers moves elsewhere.
and now we know...
I hate evidences of questionable natures.
I hate errors.
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Free speech means free for all sadly, even those who make a 5-year old look mature, so no matter how much of a moron a commenter may be, I’d still say they have a right to post, as long as they aren’t posting things like threats and whatnot.
For example(and just to make it clear, these aren’t aimed at anyone):
“You’re a crap filled flesh-sack.” is offensive, but ultimately harmless.
“I’m going to come to your house and…” on the other hand is something that shouldn’t be allowed, as it implies actual harm.
Now that said, they may have their free speech, but everyone else also has the right to just click ‘report’ and block anything that’s too offensive, which seems like a good compromise.
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But ad-hominem arguments are about all the trolls have left to them. Most of their favorite statistics and “facts” have been shot full of so many holes that even the trolls won’t use them.
There is no service of process requirement in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure. Please stop reporting misinformation.
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But you don’t disagree that Mikey-Poo is the bottom in that relationship, right?
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LMAO. Dark Helmet, you just don’t understand the internet. Dude. Be kewl like Mikey.
Re: Re:
Click the Link… do it… I know you want to AC, trust me it’ll be fun. You of all people would appreciate it.
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That’s right! Yeah, let’s physically hurt people! And infringe on their rights! Rabble rabble rabble…
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Sometimes conjugal visits are the only way Mikey can be with the ones he loves.
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You seem very vested in the idea that Mike is gay. Is this the result of your unrequited attempts to make Mike something he is not so he could fulfill your deepest desires?
While I applaud you on finding your way out of Narnia and that deep closet Mr. Santorum, this really is the wrong way and the wrong forum for you to act on your confusing feelings.
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I think the issue is with the corporate defendant. Since there’s no person to arrest, they give notice. But with the individual defendants like Loverboy’s Lover Kimmy-Poo, there’s no problem. Of course, if there was a problem with notice, they can just send notice now. Problem solved. Mikey got his manties all worked up over nothing. Boy-oh-boy was Mikey excited to run with this story! Go Team Pirates!
Each time they lose a case they just use it to add fire to their “we can’t fight piracy without becoming a police state” campaign anyway.
*Mission Accomplished*
I do not believe “justice” was ever the point of the MegaUpload raid, it was terror.
I agree.
After reading Dotcom’s response and this article I am beginning to wonder if the US Government might have accidentally created their very own “SOPA moment” concerning asset forfeiture laws.
Widespread public awareness is a powerful thing.
Re:
Who said Mikey’s gay? Sexuality is a spectrum, dude. Don’t pigeonhole people like that. Mikey just can’t say “no” to that Pirate King Kimmy. Who could?
Look at the DMCA
The DMCA proved that it’s possible to write a law which makes it illegal to help someone else to do something legal, so I see no reason why one couldn’t have a(n equally stupid) law which makes it illegal for people to “conspire” together to run a company which provides service X, even if this service is totally legal.
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Who is getting their manties in a bunch? Your the one so excited to post insults you won’t even read past the headline.
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this is TRULY I. P.
the talking sphincter of Dodd
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I believe the government may argue that the seven individuals (the conspiracy) actually owned and ran everything and that the corporation was just a shell to hide and facilitate their criminal conspiracy. Thus, you can just ignore the corporation, it didn’t count anyway.
Notice the information that has “leaked” in the past few days. Megaupload was planning an IPO. Megaupload employed 220 people. Megaupload had multiple divisions, including a clothing division. These facts support the argument that Megauplaod was an actual bone fide corporation and not just the shell of a conspiracy. These facts were probably already briefed and submitted to the court.
Will they keep the servers?
will they keep the servers and domain names until they re-file?
Whatever they’ve got they’ll keep, including money, until they’ve convinced Carpathia to delete everything they haven’t directly seized. Then they’ll give it all back after wiping any drives and data in their possession.
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I believe that the 5 year threshold is needed in the country being extradited *to*, not the country being extradited *from*. So, it does not matter what the prison term is in NZ, the author just threw that in for comparison. (But I may be wrong.)
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You’re boring. And painfully uncreative.
Good little doggie, Obidenama!
You get an extra treat and a belly-rub for being such an obedient critter to us.
Making shitloads of monet without working is fun.
The check’s in the mail.
Love, the mafiaa dinosaurs.
correction
Making shitloads of money without working is fun.
Re:
shill — please pick a consistent posting name.
Re:
shill — please pick a consistent posting name.
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shill — please pick a consistent posting name.
Re:
shill — please pick a consistent posting name.
Re:
shill — please pick a consistent posting name.
Re:
shill — please pick a consistent posting name.
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Is that you, Kimmy? Maybe you’ll get a cell next to O’Dwyer and those punks from LulzSec. Good times.
Will they keep the servers?
If they can’t proceed with the prosecution, will they keep the servers and domain names until they re-file?
More likely that they will just permanently keep everything they seized, including MU’s money.
Would that be legal?
Unfortunately, it probably would be. Asset seizure and forfeiture in the US has a very low standard and it’s basically guilty until proven innocent. That’s for the seized property, not the people involved. You have to go to court and convince a judge that whatever was seized is absolutely, positively, 100% legal. From the stories on the net, that happens about 10% of the time…
Keeping seized property is so common that police departments count on it as part of their budget.
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shill — please pick a consistent posting name.
Re:
shill — please pick a consistent posting name.
well
Kim must be chortling somewhere.
Rapidshare and a host of other lockers went “user only” and removed sharing from their systems, so now the competition to Megaupload has been pretty much killed stone dead…
Now he just needs to get the data back, run an IPO and make 10’s of billions pure profit.
(I believe the estimates for the value of publicity for all this runs into hundreds of millions of dollars of free advertising for Megaupload).
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How about you post using a consistent handle?
Sounds just like the “technical error” when they served them the wrong type of warrant in NZ.
It doesn’t really matter. If they didn’t serve them, then jeopardy is not attached, and they just do it all again.
Once again, Techdirt trying to overstate things.
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“LOL! Good old Pirate Mike root-root-rooting for his favorite pirate buddy, Kimmy D.
You two were meant for each other. True love.”
Meant for each other??? Masnick’s a couple of donuts and a crewcut from being his twin. Perhaps a bit overstated as I find Dotcom marginally less obnoxious.
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Lickspittle to the rescue!!!! What’s the matter are you jealous of Pirate Mike’s man-crush on Fat Bastard?
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Why is it that you don’t make comments like this on the source article about Ernesto?
U jelly?
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But….but…but… censorship.
*Mission Accomplished*
Perhaps this is Dajaz1 all over again?
Doing just enough to keep the site down for long enough that money doesn’t come in until finally sometime far into the future when the lack of real facts or laws supporting the charges are finally admitted, and they’ve stalled for as long as they could (just like Dajaz1) so that it doesn’t matter if the defendant was innocent to begin with, now they are buried in debt and bad press, that their chances of recovery are slim to none. Too bad there isn’t repercussions for the DoJ doing their jobs unfaithfully.
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now come one leech when have you ever had a problem hurting people?
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At some point the sheer epic incompetency of the individuals bringing this extremely expensive case forward will piss off the judge harder than the judges who were unfortunate enough to deal with John Steele, Terik Hashmi and Brett Gibbs.
Sure, go ahead and do it all again, because it makes you look all that much better.
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Hi Mike!
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No, it’s me GOD. When you get your period, it will all be OK.
*Mission Accomplished*
isn’t the official US policy on terrorists to blow up everything in their general vicinity? (read: any instance of more than two buildings in close proximity within the entire country based on random die rolls :P)
hummm…
*evil pondering*
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… funny… or report…. funny…. or report?
I CAN”T DECIDE!!!!
*breaks down in manly tears*
*Mission Accomplished*
Thanks for the NZ link, never realised MegaUpload was considering going public either, that could be an interesting
situation if the process was actually in motion.
Ah he was considering the US market with an IPO, this whole situation starts making more sense now. I wonder if the “Big Four? auditors and several of the world?s largest investments banks” he was talking too talked to some of their friends in either Hollywood or the US Capital. Only speculation mind you, though we are talking about Banks and auditors that the USG just gave billions of dollars too. Conflicts anyone???
Next time Kim, go to the other markets.. Australia could be good. we even have Brothels (the NYSE & USG hates that).
And in regards to if the trial is never going to happen and they are acquitted. If I was one of the lawyers I would go for ‘with prejudice” to recoup all losses, or if not then counter with malicious prosecution charges. Especially within NZ.
Great...
I’m just hoping this is FINALLY the nail in the coffin that puts an end to the National party (the current NZ government)
they were pretty much going to lose the last election but somehow Earthquake = incumbents have advantage despite not doing a damn thing beyond stripping the inhabitants of the affected area of a number of rights and democratic processes for the duration (non-specified). add in incredibly corrupt reporting and/or opinion polls and they SHOULD have been out on their ears last election.
I’d like to think that such a blatant waste of resources and corrupt action against private citizens in the name of foreign interests would do them in. i’m probably dreaming though.
(I’d LOVE a Green/NZ First/Conservative coalition. never going to happen, but when you get the pro-freedoms, pro-citizens and ‘change only stuff that would actually HELP’ parties all lined up, and they happen to be (in spite of the name of the last one) the ones with the most radical economic policies (necessary at this point) that aren’t suicidal AND they’ve all picked up a middling-strong nationalist vibe (as opposed to Labour’s globalist or National’s Pro-USA and China angles, not racists/anti-regionalist/anti-imigration nationalism) … let’s just say that it’d be as close to perfect as we could get here without a monarch actually willing to do their damn job and , figeratively speaking, sit on the idiots who keep selling out the country and it’s citizens in favour of stupid ideology or pure greed and keep the whole lot in line…)
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Actually the Roadshow v iiNet case just decided is going to be a HUGE thorn in the USG’s case against extraditing Kim or any of the other people currently residing in Commonwealth countries (ie: New Zealand)
The NZ High Court has already weighed in on this issue with Dotcom et.al already, believe me this is not a fait accompli for the US prosecutors.. Far from it
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+10 internet to you
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Look again at the requirements when dealing with serving charges on corporations.. Notice the only corporations that can be served are US Corporations, thereby giving no ability for foreign corporations to be charged.
Reading.. It’s hard isn’t it
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Look again at the requirements when dealing with serving charges on corporations.. Notice the only corporations that can be served are US Corporations, thereby giving no ability for foreign corporations to be charged.
Reading.. It’s hard isn’t it
correction
Glad you fixed that, for a minute their I was wondering how making lots of Monet (paintings) was not art fraud 😉
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You really don’t understand the concept of reading do you.
They cannot EVER serve them since Foreign corporations cannot be served with criminal charges outside the USofA under US law.
The only way MegaUpload could be charged is if the NZ government charged them criminally. Which if they would (that’s something the USA cannot control) would then be fully tried and processed within the NZ Criminal Court system (where the US Prosecutors cannot even do anything other than sit in the gallery like the plebs they would be)
If the US tried to change it’s laws to enable it to charge Foreign Corporations, every other country would then change its laws to charge US companies.
See this is how the rest of teh world that is actually democratic and fair works, not just in the interests of the USofA. Don’t like it? well suck it up you better get used to it.
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True love.
Don’t be jealous. Try to be less of a dickhead and maybe it’ll happen some day to you to.
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The point is that the assets belong to the corporation. Thus, if they cannot be served in your nation, then why should your laws apply? If they do, what is to stop Iran from seizing all the assets of Microsoft? After all, they could be sdoiong something illegal to Iran. I’d be very interestede to see an extradition of Steve Ballmer to Iran for trial.
*”your” referring to the US
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Also, the Megaupload corporation probably had to be named in the US criminal indictment so that its assets could be seized in NZ by the NZ authorities. But because the corporation will not be served, the charges must eventually be dismissed against the corporation and the corporation will no longer be part of the case (even though the individuals will still be part of the case). Then NZ will have to return the assets of the corporation to the corporation. Also, the NZ officials will look pretty stupid as they will have been tricked by the US government into seizing the assets of a corporation based on a criminal indictment that the US knew could not stand.
Also, I think I’m wrong when I said above that “these facts were probably already briefed and submitted to the court.”
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Apparently don’t get it either – they aren’t serving ONLY the corporation, but the individuals – and they have all had it handed to them (repeatedly, I am sure).
The company, well… it’s only part of the conspiracy. Plus I doubt there was a true arms length relationship between kim and his companies (he has been nailed on that before), so in the end, where does Kim stop and the company start? (Hint, it’s all Kim).
Demoncratic and fair doesn’t mean “you can get away with anything”. Sorry to burst your bubble of innocence.
Criminal Conspiracy - maybe not.
I just read that: “an individual cannot conspire with the corporation for which he works or with another officer, employee or agent of his corporate employer.” Page 68 of “Jury Instructions in Criminal Antitrust Cases 1976-1980.” I don’t know if this is still the law, or ever was for a case like Megaupload. But, the US is relying on the “conspiracy” charge to get the 5 years for extradition, so if it is the law, the US would seem to have an uphill battle.
The US will argue that the Megaupload corporation was a shell to further the conspiracy, not a real corporate entity. Megaupload with argue otherwise, which may explain why we are seeing facts about their corporate existence (number of employees, IPO planned, etc.).
Criminal Conspiracy - maybe not.
Never mind. I just read that you can have intra-corporate conspirators in a racketeering case, which is alleged in the indictment.
Wait, does’nt all this, these errors, essentially mean that Megauploads takedown was an illegal one?
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If you want to champion your side as the side of truth and justice, shouldn’t doing things right and by the book be your standard operating procedure? I’m amazed at the amount of leeway you’re willing to give to the mistakes that have happened in this case while advocating the harsh enforcement of copyright on everyone else.
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It just means their full of bullshit
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It’s starting to look that way yes :]
Will they keep the servers?
A question I have is many of the seizures were done in NZ and other countries, were the items transferred to the US or not?
If they US do not have their dirty hands on it, it most likely would be returned by people just acting on the bad information provided.
Dotcom owns several things he could use to finance but “purchase” of the Carpathia servers to get them up long enough to have them moved well outside of the borders of the US.
Mega was a multimillion corporation, they started small and I have no doubt that when this ill conceived case finally blows over they will be back with a vengeance.
well
Part of the problem for the Government is going to be trying to prove they can tell their head from their ass at this point. While you have various **AA’s releasing press releases claiming all cyberlockers are only profiting because of their material and they are going to shut them all down just like Mega, it calls into question why the DoJ is the enforcer for a lobbyist group.
The Hotfile case is going to put a gaping wound into WB. They committed copyfraud and keep doubling down claiming Hotfile didn’t do enough under the law, when it is clear they went well above and beyond to appease them… and it still wasn’t enough and WB abused those powers.
The cyberlockers based in the US are going to die off. Others will be moving their servers well outside of the US, and looking at rebranding themselves as something other than .com .net or any other TLD the US claims to have special rights to allow them to go after.
Mega needs to come back and launch the music platform, that will cause sheer panic. The success of that is where their future lies.
*Mission Accomplished*
You have no idea what you’re talking about. What you’re saying is of the broad sense of what megaupload DID in the past years. Companies such as Warner Bros. have control content access on Megaupload which the Hollywood company itself can remove files which they believe can be infringing uploaded by USERS. The company owners don’t even do uploads there aside from their file upload testing before the production of the site.
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Especially so since it’s not really blocked. It’s just hidden. Click on it, and it un-hides. Very civilized, I think.
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Look at the DMCA
These type of situations are happening often, you should read up on the Byron Sonne case for one. He’s accused of conspiring to bomb the Toronto G20 because he legally owned chemicals for agriculture and hobby rocketry which could be used in bomb making.
http://toronto.openfile.ca/toronto/text/miles-go-byron-sonne-trial-continues
Serving
That could be a very chilling thing if it pans out to be true.