Techdirt Deemed Harmful To Minors In Germany
from the ah,-censorship dept
Hanno alerts us to the news that Techdirt has apparently been deemed harmful to minors in Germany. The German Media Control Authority has apparently been pushing internet “youth filters” to protect kids from dangerous things online. So far, it has officially approved two internet filters. Hanno got his hands on one and discovered that Techdirt was one of many blocked sites (Google translation from the original German) — as the filter declares that Techdirt has pornographic images and depictions of violence. We do?
Hanno reached out to a spokesperson for the JusProg filter, and got the usual runaround. “We do not want to censor political opinions.” The spokesperson claims that the system is automated and looks at links. When asked why Techdirt was blocked, it was explained that since we use certain words “perhaps twenty times” in discussions about pornography and censorship, the system deemed us clearly a danger. Apparently, we can appeal to JusProg, but it appears that might require some familiarity with German… So, in the meantime, let’s just hope that we haven’t already damaged the youth of Germany too much.
Comments on “Techdirt Deemed Harmful To Minors In Germany”
In other news...
In other news, Techdirt readership among German youths is up 42%.
Of course, some of those looking for freaky German porn were notably confused.
In other news...
Argh, got signed out somehow.
In other news...
Is there any other kind of German porn besides ‘freaky’?
“the filter declares that Techdirt has pornographic images and depictions of violence”
Well, you did post pics of the TSA and Police forces in action…
Lost!
I’ve apparently missed a link or three in my years here… where does one find this porn & violence??
Have you folks have been holding out on all of us non-germans or something?
how much more ridiculous is censorship going to get? still trying to figure out how mentioning/discussing porn is the same as showing images
best shut down the entire internet as well as immediately stopping everyone from using any of the inventions from the last 200 years!
I really like the fact that they are also blocking “the Greens and the Pirate Party”. I am wondering when the EFF and M. Geists blog will also be added to the blacklist.
Pornographic imagery: Dark Helmet. Tell me you don’t see a phallic symbol there.
Depictions of violence: US Congress.
Blacklisted.
Next up: ICE takes down the site because people are infringing each others quotes.
Apologies all around
I’m sorry. I think this who “violent/pornographic” designation came from that week-long bender I had here at TD where I did nothing but beat people with rolled-up copies of Hustler.
I can say only this in my defense: at that point in time, it really seemed like the best idea I’d had in my life.
They clearly don’t want you poisoning their minds with ideas about due process and the dangers of censorship
Techdirt has pornographic images
Yeah, but we just go there for the articles.
…this has to be a joke…Either that or the German Media Control Authority has officially lost its collective marbles.
Its also proof that automated system FAIL.
Given how thoroughly the normal talking points are debunked around here, you had to know it was just a matter of time. Nor am I the least bit surprised that the “for the children” argument was used.
I would be shocked that you are not aware of this Mike, considering that the body sends up multiple registered mail notices to the site owner.
Oh, wait. You are hiding your whois information (for whatever reason) and Tucows likely didn’t accept anything for you or forward it on.
Perhaps you are now learning a lesson in why hiding your whois isn’t the best idea (plus may create additional liabilty for you in Canada, where you are not located).
It's Mike's fault
Stop writing articles about the .xxx TLD….. unless, of course, you’re going to start providing links.
Then it’s perfectly ok
Mental Imagery?
If a picture says a thousand words then how many pictures do the words ‘#u@%ing @unts’ conjure up? All kinds I’d say. That $h!t goes both ways.
Now I have to watch my potty mouth. I hate having to watch my potty mouth. I was taught not to look at the keys.
People are so sensitive whilst they impose their moral boundaries onto others.
Bad words are bad.
Re:
I thought the AC’s implied mikey ate them (@chubby)
I found the reason...
Apparently “Freetard” is German for “pornography” /sarc
Lost!
http://www.techdirt.com/search.php?q=nsfw&eid=&tid=&aid=&searchin=stories
In other news...
Dast ist fantastisch!
Re:
news from the real world must not be seen by children, it all must be fabricated or completely irrelevant
Mental Imagery?
But George Carlin used them in the BEST way……
NSFW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqvLTJfYnik
(does this qualify as mental porn?)
Re:
You are hiding your whois information (for whatever reason)
You do realize that whois information is the number 1 resource for phone and email spammers?
let me guess....
let me guess… 4chan is on that list, bet you a buck it is… if its not I’m gonna laugh so hard
Re:
So that just leaves politics & politicians.
Re:
Ehm, yeah, cause censorship is okay as long as the one censored gets a notice?
Apologies all around
I certainly enjoyed it.
Fun fact!
I almost couldn’t get here to make this comment, since Comodo Secure DNS claims you don’t exist!
Re:
In what way is that related to anything the article mentions?
In case you missed it, the article is about how automated censorship protocols have collateral damage. If Techdirt can be blocked because it supposedly contains porn and violence then it’s entirely possible that other legitimate sites are government censored to ‘protect the kids’. This type of collateral damage is just unacceptable.
Think of the children!
Under son-of-SOPA maybe websites could be shut down with no due process, no chance of defense, and no recourse, upon mere accusation of pr0n.
Given TechDirt’s occasional downtimes recently, and slowness at other times, I had feared that TD might have been declared a “rogue” website.
Re:
No, like any legal action, he could have chosen to be present at the hearing, to have a lawyer present, etc. Because he was unreachable, he did not get that choice.
Re:
“Pornographic imagery: Dark Helmet. Tell me you don’t see a phallic symbol there.”
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
Re:
It isn’t automated.
TechDirt IS a danger to minors...
…if by ‘minors’ you mean ‘legacy entertainment companies’, ‘clueless pols’ or ‘funny German pornography filters’.
If TechDirt can be censored . . .
If TechDirt can be censored merely for trigger words that appear in on topic discussions, then the US MPAA/RIAA sites which have motion pictures and/or music lyrics of sex and violence should legitimately be censored.
Re:
I would be shocked that you are not aware of this Mike, considering that the body sends up multiple registered mail notices to the site owner.
“The body” being a private filtering company? Um… no, you’re completely wrong (as per usual) on this one. The filtering companies does not send “multiple registered mail notices to the site owner.”
Oh, wait. You are hiding your whois information (for whatever reason) and Tucows likely didn’t accept anything for you or forward it on.
Again, no. I turned on private whois 2 weeks ago to cut down on the spam we get. If they sent us messages before that, we would have received them. They did not.
Care to take back your clueless assertions?
Perhaps you are now learning a lesson in why hiding your whois isn’t the best idea (plus may create additional liabilty for you in Canada, where you are not located).
Funny, then, that .ca automatically does the same thing and hides whois as a default.
Hiding your whois is pretty standard these days to avoid spam.
Re:
No, like any legal action, he could have chosen to be present at the hearing, to have a lawyer present, etc. Because he was unreachable, he did not get that choice.
1. There was no legal action.
2. We are very reachable.
Re:
It isn’t automated.
Really? You should try reading the actual story. Might help you look less stupid.
I think it might be the chaotic mass referred to as “TechDirt readers” that might be the issue. We are rated 18+ in Germany!
Now jokes apart, it’s censorship “for the children”. I honestly fear for my children (if I ever have any and I plan to) because every time some idiot do or says something “for the children” something good gets broken and we the adults and our children lose another piece of our freedom and of our culture. But of course it’s everything for the children. I wonder if Hitler ever said anything about cleansing the world for the pure German children…..
Re:
“…and its soo big!”
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it was explained that since we use certain words “perhaps twenty times” in discussions about pornography and censorship, the system deemed us clearly a danger.
That sounds automated to me, and if that’s not, then why would using words x number of times deem it bad
If TechDirt can be censored . . .
This is in fact great!
Not only will Hollywood effectively be censored, but more importantly: all the clueless politicians comparing piracy to “child porn” (that’s the phrase right there!). This way only the legitimate politicians will reach out to all the internet users.
From Germany...
Yesterday evening I noticed I can no longer reach Techdirt from my home connection. Techdirt.com would not resolve. Trying from a different country it worked, so the idea occurred to me, but I thought it’s too crazy. I assumed some DNS glitch.
But just a few mins ago it started to resolve again with m-net.de.
In other news...
It depends on if you’re German or not.
From Germany...
Ok, reading TFA, I see that the mechanism is different, as I certainly did not apply any sort of filtering myself… Then back to DNS glitch at provider. Nevertheless, it’s strange.
Hmmm… I wonder if my ISP is using similar filtering. Techdirt hasn’t been resolving through their DNS for a few days. It works through OpenDNS, which I had set up in my ISPs modem/router but I think they changed it (can’t check, forgot the password). Set up OpenDNS on my PC and it resolves.
Harmful
I’m just waiting for an academic paper to come out titled:
Techdirt Harmful, Considered Harmful
Re:
huh mike insulted some one directly. You probably should have used misinformed. Stupid is just going to get the troll to dig in deeper.
The German Media Control Authority
Sounds so….. tyrannical..
lol
Fun fact!
I was wondering why DNS was failing on http://www.techdirt.com — perhaps now I know.
A quick edit of /etc/hosts fixed that.
Carefull techdirt, next they’ll be claiming you’re disidants, and shutting sites like yours down, thus proving what all of this internet bollocks, HASN’T, been about……….
Their longterm end gamme …….censorship of free speech on a platform that can do real harm to certain (read corrupted) individuals…….. the internet
I don’t think Techdirt has harmed the youths of Germany any more than any of the love parades has.
Politicians are the real danger to our children.
Fun fact!
I had problems all day yesterday using Comcast’s DNS but my home Verizon DNS went right through. But what is the IP address of TechDirt? I may as well start squirreling these things away now before it’s too late.
Kann denn nicht einmal einer an die Kinder denken!
Maybe your site should only function at night in order to abide by the german law…
Re:
We are very reachable.
Like that isn’t salacious! I need an adult!
Re:
It would appear that this may be an outcrop of this quasi government group:
http://www.bundespruefstelle.de/bpjm/information-in-english.html
As for your whois, the private protection was on there quite a while ago. I seem to remember this being a point of discussion in the past. You have have turned it on and off, but I can remember it being a point of discussion quite a while back. Sadly, your search on this site isn’t very good, so it’s hard to find anything.
From Germany...
I assumed some DNS glitch.
Yeah, it was a DNS glitch. We had some DNS problems yesterday…
Re:
As for your whois, the private protection was on there quite a while ago. I seem to remember this being a point of discussion in the past. You have have turned it on and off, but I can remember it being a point of discussion quite a while back.
100% false.
Thanks for showing how you make stuff up though.
Mike Masnick, why are you destroying German youth with the ideas of political transparency and internet freedom of speech? Damn you!
The war is on
Here?s an example of what the world censorship legislation was trying to do: censor websites people in power don?t like. Clean and simple. Actual porn sites won?t be shut down because they are popular with politicians. Putting TechDirt on the block list wasn?t an accident. It was put there. Anyone who blames a bad algorithm is being disingenuous. The internet is problematic since it allows ordinary denizens to be informed as to what is going on. The war is on.
From Germany...
I thought work started blocking you. I had to read through Google cache.
This is exactly the targeting of political speech that everyone fears with this sort of thing.
Re:
Please show this to be 100% false. I don’t think so, I have done a whois on your stuff in the past… I remember laughing because it came up with a Canadian address. I think it was during a discussion of your being a California company hosted in Salt Lake City or some place like that. Maybe a year or so ago.
I’ll see if someone I know has access to look at the whois history. Domaintools does say your whois changed recently, and has had at least 24 significant changes. I don’t intend to pay to dig up the historical records.
I do notice that you moved to an anti-DDoS host. Having problems?
Re:
It is so hard at time to read your posts completely, as the self serving schlock is hard to part out from reality.
Re:
Ah, so you’re content being completely wrong about basic facts?
Perhaps you should stop commenting, if you’re not even reading what you’re commenting on… Or perhaps you should just realize why nobody takes you seriously, since you don’t even care about accuracy as long as you get to bitch.
Re:
Oh, and how nice of you to ignore the rest of my post. I guess you hate to admit that perhaps my comments have merit.
No wonder people call you names.
Re:
Hahahaha. You are hilarious. Let’s compare your two recent comments. When caught on being completely wrong about the fact that this system IS automated, your excuse was:
It is so hard at time to read your posts completely
Then, like two minutes later, you say to Mike:
Oh, and how nice of you to ignore the rest of my post.
No wonder you have been here for years and yet have been unable to rise above the status of “laughingstock”
IM PROUD OF GERManY
yes im proud that all the polices of your fuhrer are now going world wide to every nation next we need to start making some ovens for the descenters.
Re:
+1 for a clever rewording of the “but reading is hard” excuse.
Is it possible that expletives might be a factor?
It's All True
To be serious for a moment: Yes, Techdirt discusses violence and pornography all the time. So often, that you find it useful to have tags for these topics (and the porn tag misses all the stories about Perfect 10‘s ongoing legal adventures.)
Ironically, these tags are almost always used in the context of censorship: either censorship of violent video games, or the prevention of pornography as an excuse for censorship provisions in overly-burdensome copyright laws.
It would be idiotic to claim that Techdirt doesn’t discuss violence and porn; so don’t be an idiot. Instead, use this as a teachable moment, about how filters can’t distinguish between ACTUAL violence and porn and public DISCUSSION about the issues of violence and porn, making their use a dangerous assault on free and open speech.
Re:
Obiously, the “Contact Us” portion at the top of the page clearly leads to “DeutschePorn.de”.
Re:
Just so I’m clear, the default position is censorship?
The government’s mission should be towards truth and accuracy, not “control notwithstanding objections”.
This highlights the problems with these systems, wherein the default is to try to lockdown information. Fortunately, most of these systems are inept and easily circumvented. I doubt it’s stopped much access from Germany, and in general has not stopped kids from getting dirty and/or violent images.
All systems like this do is waste people’s money.
Re:
Dissidents only exist according to the whims of Govbernment.
Lost!
http://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=pornography
http://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=violence
Re:
Is it possible that expletives might be a factor?
Could be.
Could also be the “bow-chicka-bow-bow” music that plays in the background.
Oh wait. That’s from a different browser window open on my computer. Never mind.
Well sure techdirt is harmful in Germany, not to minors but to majors. Techdirt provides a bit of transparency to the German government. I would bet Techdirt is blocked in China aswell. Some governments can’t let the people know what they are doing. So YES Techdirt is harmful in Germany, that’s obvious.
Re:
Sounds automated to me..
Re:
They give Anonymous Cowards are truly bad name. I am so ashamed right now.
IM PROUD OF GERManY
Nice You actually get what happened in Germany when the wall fell. Many people thought east Germany would adapt to west German philosophy, instead West Germany adopted the east German philosophy. That’s why your guilty untill proven innocent, in Germany.
Re:
Oh Marcus, don’t you have some copyright material to go make?
Re:
Oh and Marcus, please note my post was very short and on point. That Mike chose to ignore 50% of a 7 line post pretty much tells me just isn’t bothering to check. I am guessing he realized I knew what I was talking about after all. It may not be the same agency, but he doesn’t seem to be aware of this one.
That and the whois. Classic stuff from Mr Denial in California.
Re:
Oh Marcus, don’t you have some copyright material to go make?
Oh TAM, weren’t you supposed to be leaving Techdirt forever?
Fun fact!
But what is the IP address of TechDirt?
Non-authoritative answer:
Name: techdirt.com
Address: 208.53.48.153
Name: techdirt.com
Address: 208.53.48.129
Name: techdirt.com
Address: 208.53.48.36
Name: techdirt.com
Address: 208.53.48.13
Name: techdirt.com
Address: 208.53.48.33
Re:
Heh. Yeah. Your post that said “I seem to remember some stuff maybe, a year ago or something, when we were talking about something-or-other or whatever. I dunno, can’t find it now.”
I’m shocked – SHOCKED – that Mike did not respond to such harsh, concrete allegations.
Filter Aggravations
I am currently unable to offer commentary on the value of pornographic filters as my pornograph is broken.
Re:
Only problem is…it’s always night (and morning) somewhere in this world.
Filter Aggravations
I do not have a pornogragh, However I do have a needle for one 🙂
This is news?
I only come to Techdirt for the violent pornography.
I get to read about how Congress and the music industry are trying to f*** the internet until it dies.
Filter Aggravations
you have needles for porn? …kinky.
Re:
and RIAA accounting
Re:
Forever is a difficult concept for TAM. But give him time. He’ll get it. Sometime.
It's All True
I agree that that is certainly the case so shouldn’t the automated system used to check these things also check CONTEXT? You know, is it all text or are there actual links, pictures, drawings etc dealing with these horrid subjects?
Use of the words alone should never trigger a ban. There may be other reasons for considering Techdirt dangerous to minors. Concepts like free speech and open discussion in a public area.
Now THAT could be dangerous!
porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn porn
^ clearly a danger
Re:
well, that or they’re just trying to avoid looking bad.
also ‘looks at links’?
they could bring down ANYTHING with comments etc enabled with that simply by having people PUT those links there.
A German by any other name is still a?
REALLY?? The German Media Control Authority
Why do the Germans have such “cute” names for Goose steppers?
Re:
you think that’s fun?
NZ has a Chief Censor.
he has an office with a fair number of staff.
best part is, things banned by the Chief Censor’s office outside of wartime, to the best of my knowledge: one HIGHLY offensive T-shirt (generally offensive, not religions or ideology based or anything like that.), one apparently extremely offensive book that, among other things, denied the holocaust took place, said book’s author (not a citizen, not allowed in the country, and from memory that wasn’t just because of the book)… and a bunch of porn to extreme even for the R18 lable here.
other than that they just assign ratings to movies and games (of which only R13, R16 and R18 have Any actual restrictions, and that is only that they may not be provided to individuals under those ages. the R13 is also basically obsolete as it has almost 100% overlap with the current top end non-restricted ratings), and review books (or anything else of similar nature) that they get actual legitimate complaints about. (generally speaking things only get banned if their production is causing actual harm (such as child porn), or if they are so morally reprehensible by current standards that failure to do so is likely to cause major public outcry… which is rare.)
that’s legitimate censorship by a dedicated government body for that purpose. it’s widely known about, generally accepted, non-partisan (except for the fact that it’s about the only job where a question of someone’s morality is a valid reason to reject their appointment reguardless of whether they have ever actually been caught doing anything wrong or the like and sometimes people find certain appointments suspect as it’s Definitely a job in the ‘if you want it you’re unsuited for it’ catagory and they find the individual’s morality questionable and/or not to line up with their own. and even then it’s not exactly Partisan, so much as it tends to shift voters around a bit.) and you’d basically have to buy out the entire government in order to bribe the guy to do something contrary to what he’s meant to without it being found out in fairly short order and the guy being fired, his decision reversed, and i think the penalties for such things are probably pretty harsh.
then there’s all the Other censorship that comes from powerful people abusing the law, the courts, and other government bodies. though there’s a lot less of that than in the USA, it’s still an issue. That’s the one that’s an actual problem.
Actual Censorship of political opinion and the like is caused by the latter. (save the rare occasion when said political opinion is both known to be false and likely to cause riots and the like.)
IM PROUD OF GERManY
to be fair, large parts of the western world have adopted this.
heck, large parts of the western world have always Had this… they just used to be a lot better about not Using it on things and people that the public cared about.
A German by any other name is still a?
i especially love how all these places with euphemistic names are problematically restrictive and absusive of their powers.
while NZ’s Cheif Censor’s Office is all nice and layed back and spends most of their time Actually tracking down people making and distributing child porn and bringing them to justice, and the rest of their time assigning ratings to tv programs, movies and video games. (this is NOT a voluntary rating system, mind you, but the most restrictive, R ratings, are only limited to not providing the product in question to people under the listed age, and you’re looking at basically child porn or some sort of weird realistic torture based game or something before it gets outright banned. I’m not entirely sure where cartoons of a similar nature fall.)
this contrast amuses me.
Re:
Hmm…perhaps this AC knows Techdirt’s inclusion wasn’t automated because he had a hand in submitting TD to the list??
It could have nothing to do with us hurting GEMA’s feelings by pointing out how often they attempt to shakedown people.
Or pointing out the horrible laws that force the accused to prove a negative.
Or pointing out that people without computers are forced to pay fines for having downloaded a movie they never knew of.
Or pointing out GEMA and its love of censoring Nina.
Nope it has to be because we said the words porn to many times.
Lost!
I’d love to know the number of clicks that link gets, especially in comparison to other links round the site 😉
Re:
LOL, firing off ad hominems when you’ve just been exposed as being too dumb to read the article always works!
Re:
I guess you hate to admit that perhaps my comments have merit.
Keep dreaming, weirdo. At least you’ll get marked funny.
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Oh and Marcus, please note my post was very short and on point.
Yeah, and also wrong.
Re:
No kidding, the German public TV stations are not allowed to stream certain movies at certain times cause children might be up and watching.
Re:
Nope, you can swear on any TV show, be it live or otherwise.
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“reality”
Once again, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Re:
Ignoring the fact that it obviously IS automated; how is this better? Do you really feel that it would be better if some human decided that Techdirt needed to be censored?
Re:
Forever is a difficult concept for TAM.
No its not, he knows its just one day short of the ideal length of copyright.
Apologies all around
Why do you think TD is so popular with the shrills?
Re:
Wouldn’t that then get govenment sites discussing Bills get banned? All those PDFs with massive laws going on about pornography and sodomy etc?
Especially when according to the US armed forces, anything that isn’t missionary (work?) is sodomy…
Re:
They probably lost it around 1996 when they actually banned Star Wars Dark Forces because there were some charred corpses in that game.
seriously, everybody here in Germany who has at least 3 working brain cells thinks for over 3 decades this institution is just a fucking joke
Re:
Who is TAM?
I am just an anonymous poster. Of course, if you want to use your admin powers to violate the anonymous standing, you might know who I am. But then again, that would be a serious violation of the principals protected by Techdirt’s founder and head koolaid mixer.
So which way you want it? Are you willing to accept that I am not who you think I am, or are you willing to violate the basic rules here to prove yourself wrong?
Look around, you have once again painted yourself into a corner Marcus. Will you ever learn?
Re:
It only pointed out that there is a group in Germany that does this sort of thing, holds hearings, etc, and that I would not be shocked if these blockers are an extension of their mandate.
So sorry if that is not the case, but I have seen these people in action and understand the implications.
Re:
lol. I don’t have any “admin powers” with the comments. Nevertheless, it’s not hard to tell who you are. Moreover, despite your constant attempts to claim that finding consistency in the ACs is somehow an abuse of principles, we have all rejected that notion and explained to you why it’s not true (anonymity means you can’t be identified – it doesn’t mean multiple anonymous statements can’t be tied together).
So – are you denying that comment on the new year’s post was you? Shame… it was a damn good comment, one of the few times you actually made your points well. It would have been a great note to actually leave on: kind of a kick in the teeth to all of us, showing that maybe you weren’t a complete moron, despite acting like one 99% of the time. We would have had to accept that buried in all your bullshit were a few salient points worth examining and discussing. It was right around the time that one of your comments won Most Insightful too, I believe. Then you did disappear for a few weeks at the beginning of 2012, but suddenly returned and were back to same old dickhead TAM.
So sorry, no: we all know you who are, and I find your attempts to evade that pretty amusing – especially since you are clearly admitting that I’m right at the same time as saying I’m not, just in the hopes of catching me on what you (but nobody else) thinks is a violation of principles.
Look around: you have once again declared a victory that only exists inside your own deluded head. Will you ever learn? Will you ever grow the balls to keep your word and stay away from this blog that you hate so much? Sadly, I doubt it…
Re:
Heh. And you think I have trouble admitting it when I’m wrong?
Re:
“you might know who I am”
I’ll ask: who are you? I know you’re one of the drooling idiots who tries to attack everybody here regardless of factual or logical basis. But which ones?
Re:
Here’s a clue: Nobody gives a shit who you are.
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I thought it was MPAA accounting?
Re:
nom nom nom…. brains…. keep the thread going this anon is hilarious!
Filter Aggravations
Rule 34
The what?
Have they not learned from history over there??
You don’t have a state-run “media control authority” unless you’re either hoping to end up in that very bad place again, or else really, really stupid.
And yes, I consider the US FCC, to the extent that it tries to constrain content rather than just allocate spectrum, to be stupid too. But at least the FCC has no authority to mandate Internet filters or censorship!