Congrats, US Government: You're Scaring Web Businesses Into Moving Out Of The US
from the destroying-business dept
The federal government has been paying lip service to the idea that it wants to encourage new businesses and startups in the US. And this is truly important to the economy, as studies have shown that almost all of the net job growth in this country is coming from internet startups. Thankfully some politicians recognize this, but the federal government seems to be going in the other direction. With the JotForm situation unfolding, where the US government shut down an entire website with no notice or explanation, people are beginning to recognize that the US is not safe for internet startups.
Lots of folks have been passing around this rather reasonable list of activities for US-based websites:
Today’s sysadmin todo list:
0. Get corporate membership with EFF.
1. Identify all applications with user-generated content.
2. Move all associated domains to a non-US based registrar.
3. Migrate DNS, web serving and other critical services to non-US based servers.
4. Migrate yourself to a non-US controlled country.
I’m sorry for US sites and users. Your government is hell-bent on turning the internet into a read-only device like TV, easily regulated and controlled. The population will be required to sit quietly and keep their eyes glued on the screen so they don’t miss the ads, with any infringers deemed terrorists and pedophiles and thus deserving of summary punishment by DHS squads.
Hopefully the internet will route around the damaged segment, and the rest of us can continue to enjoy the amazing interactivity it has brought our society.
What’s amazing is the “what’s the big deal?” attitude the government has taken to all of this. For most of us, this situation is shocking. The US government should never be able to flat out shut down a business with no notice or explanation, only to say “sorry” a couple days later. It’s done this in the past and insisted that it would be more careful in the future. So far, it doesn’t appear to be living up to that promise. While these may be “mistakes,” the wider impact should be frightening to federal officials. They’re now actively scaring startups away from US businesses at a time when they should be doing exactly the opposite.
Filed Under: censorship, entrepreneurship, seizures, startups, takedowns
Companies: jotform
Comments on “Congrats, US Government: You're Scaring Web Businesses Into Moving Out Of The US”
I have an idea for a law
I would like to pass an international law that says that no country has sovergn control over the internet at all. Since the internet is world wide and thus international, no one countries laws should be able to control or dictate it AT ALL. That means no censorship. That means the only laws that get any say over the internet are those that the entire world agrees on. And since the whole world cannot agree on much of anything that means that no laws will get passed (like it should be).
This would also mean that no country can abruptly seize a domain name. Any country that violates this will automatically have all of their domains seized until they relinquish the domains they seized. Also the politicians and/or agency heads/managers that made the call to seize it will be publicly flogged… and that will be transmitted on the internet.
I have an idea for a law
Our best chance of making this happen is to just slip into the Antarctica treaty, somewhere above the signatures…
RE
Sorry was too busy Campaigning to pay attention to silly things going on in the real world……
(did you donate to me?)
RE
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I have an idea for a law
Good luck with that…
As long as there are governments that consider “information” or “content” to be dangerous, we’ll be dealing with this.
That includes (but not limited to) the following:
Terrorist communication
National security secrets
Child pornography
Religious beliefs
Hate speech
Anti-government speech
Copyrighted material
Bomb and weapon-making information
etc.
If you stand for unfettered freedom-of-speech and information sharing, you must also be capable of accepting much of the above.
Personally, I think the above examples of information are not nearly as dangerous as some make them out to be – I’d rather live in a world where global transparency and honesty is more important than my personal safety – we stand a better chance of surviving the future that way.
I have an idea for a law
Can I get another ‘Insightful’ button to click for this post?
I’ve used up the first one…
Internet startups create most jobs?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I need to switch to whatever it is you’re smoking these days.
I have an idea for a law
“I’d rather live in a world where global transparency and honesty is more important than my personal safety”
It is quickly coming to the point that all of us that feel that way need to stand up and show it. Standing up on this issue is going to take great risk to our personal safety but I personally am willing to die before I give up all my rights.
They don't see it
The US Government is having a difficult time seeing a website as an actual business. That is the reason for the “What’s the big deal?” attitude.
They would see it differently if they had to actually go to a brick and mortar store and actually close the doors and lock out customers with no notice, because there was some illegal activity reported at the store.
I know Mike likes to call it censorship, but what happened to Jotform goes way beyond censorship.
Re:
You can smoke data? That will come in handy. Not for you, of course, since data scares you.
Bad now, wait till after cybersecurity law is passed
I’ve been a little lazy in my opposition to the Cybersecurity Act of 2012 (S. 2105), but the jotform takedown has energized me to voice my opposition to my senators today.
Re:
And…
HOW many jobs has the Entertainment (Hollywood or Nashville) created in the past 10 years?
What about the Big Banks?
I have an idea for a law
“Standing up on this issue is going to take great risk to our personal safety but I personally am willing to die before I give up all my rights.”
Anecdotally, this was part of the risk the people who fought for their independence was willing to take. Even more, the people protesting right now are risking their safety to fight for their rights.
Live Well Online
I don’t think the government will be able to do all of the above. American ingenuity can’t be boxed in like that.
They forgot:
5. Give the US government a reason to take another crack at passing SOPA.
Hiding off shore does not limit the liablity of US citizens. The whole thing is a total fail from end to end.
Re:
Then perhaps this will help:
Source: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/industry/gdpindustry/2011/gdpind10_rev.htm
Re:
Agree completely! I mean, how many people are employed by Amazon, Google, eBay, Netflix, etc.? Those fly-by-night companies will be gone before we know it.
doesn't matter
This is again, a “how people use the tool” issue, not a “the fact the tool exists” part.
Re:
You didn’t fully comprehend #4 did you?
Part of the plan
Ehh.. just part of the big plan. The government has already moved all our manufacturing to China. Now it’s time to move all our IT infrastructure out of here too.
Daydreams
I’ve been daydreaming of emigrating from the US for awhile now–but I cannot legally leave.
Turns out, if your expensive college education doesn’t net you a good enough job to pay for your expensive college loans–it actually becomes illegal for you to own or use a passport–how about that?
According to the laws as they stand, I’m not allowed to leave the country… what’s the correct definition of a “wage slave”?
Re:
“The whole thing is a total fail from end to end.”
Like you?
I would see this as a competative advantage for hosting companies in Iceland. They’ve been bucking the trend and putting in some pretty strong laws in the last few years.
Of course there’s always Sealand….
seems to me the US government is suffering from the same problems as the entertainment industries. they’ve got their heads so far up their own and each others asses that can no longer keep a grip on reality!
Re:
Most jobs in terms of “new jobs.” Unlike an existing company building a new manufacturing plant somewhere and “adding jobs,” a startup is creating them for scratch to address the needs of that startup. The ease of creating such a company in the internet age allows for some rather powerful scaling. Most of them may not be internet-focused, but they wouldn’t be possible without the internet.
I have an idea for a law
I want to live in your world rather than the one I do now. Aliens, come take me away. (the outer space kind)
Re:
I understand #4 clearly. Mitigating yourself to a non-US country would only be workable if you in fact reneg on your US citizenship and become a citizen of that other country. Otherwise, you are still connected to Uncle Sam, and when you come home to see your relatives for the Christmas holidays, well…
Hiding offshore just doesn’t work out very well. Ask Kim Dotcom.
Re:
He hosted his servers in the U.S.
Move your servers out of the U.S., problem solved.
as for citizenship, who wants to be a citizen of the U.S. these days anyway?
Bad now, wait till after cybersecurity law is passed
Ditto. Already done. Gotta love the resources available nowadays to actually send out letters and what-not to your representatives.
Re:
Yeah, screw Google, Facebook, Twitter, and many many others.
Re:
Migrating yourself to non-US territory seems to imply to me a revoking of citizenship. ergo, US policies no longer apply (except through international abortions like ACTA and TPP and rendition).
Re:
Reality sounds scary!
We need more laws to combat it!
Make it illegal for hurricanes to form! Then we’ll go and arrest everyone in Africa for trying to destroy Florida all the time!
What’s really ironic about this whole situation is that the US government created the Internet, and now it wants to destroy it in the name of Hollywood and the RIAA and copyright infringement.
The US government created the Internet for national security, so that lines of communication throughout the country could survive even a Soviet Nuclear attack.
This isn’t the first time the US created it’s own enemies. The US government also helped out Osama Bin Laden by giving him weapons decades ago! And I believe Saddam as well, back when they were fighting the Soviet Union instead of us. We all know how well that turned out, even if we did kill them both in the end.
RE
Right? I cannot fathom why this is being ignored so routinely by our illustrious leaders.
They don't see it
Yes it does, this is essentially denial of due process. It’s been hitting me hard lately. Our constitution is being ignored by the very people charged with upholding it. Unbelievable.
There is an interesting cultural trait in Americans that works in the governments favour here though. Most everyone in the world looks around at some point and is willing to move somewhere else to make a better life. But you never see an American consider moving to a different country. I’ve never fully understood that. I don’t mean this as a trash of the country – I find both it’s accomplishments and screw ups are on a far grander scale then the rest of the world, but it very much is Hotel California.
and don't forget...
…to RFI every single B2B app you might have on your site, to make sure THEY won’t be shuttered and hence break YOUR website (ala JotForm).
The web is maturing towards more interconnectivity, not less. Perhaps the governments will realize this someday when a takedown ripple affects THEIR business.
BTW, starting the list at 0 shows a REAL bithead at work. Genius!
Re:
Oh boy! Is your next comment going to be “your momma!”?
How classy!
I have an idea for a law
I would love to see this happen.Better yet I am so sick of Washington DC it might just be a good idea after all to see those in DC thrown out on the street and publicly tarred & feathered.
Re:
Yeah so the US will soon have it own internet. Its will have a couple 1000 “channels” controlled by content owners while the rest of the world gets a real working internet.
They don't see it
Paraphrasing here:
“The home of liberty must be washed from time to time in the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Re:
You have no constructive analysis at all. I’m fairly certain a bash script has gone missing form my computer again…
Re:
The data. It burns us, precious.
Re:
I can go one better.
“Let’s outlaw random chance! And DNA, too – that sounds dangerous! Oh, and by the way, what can we do to the intelligent people?”
Re:
They supplied the Taliban with weapons when they fought the Soviets as well.
Seems a bit of a pattern there, doesn’t it?
RE
Hey, that’s a pretty neat idea you’ve got there. If I had a government I would definitely like that idea embedded within its constitution. Perhaps even close to the top.
and then, and then if someone were to break this rule then that has the effect of immediately invalidating it and we can just start fresh… something like that.. oh, oh we can invalidate the government breaking the rule and start that fresh! That’s the ticket. Another rule along those lines, near the top.
They don't see it
Tree of liberty
They don't see it
Not only are they ignoring it, they are also reneging on the oath they took to protect the US from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
If the internet becomes one big TV, count me gone. It’s the reason I left TV to begin with. I’ve had it with commercials and the rerun. I won’t pay money for such a service.
RE
Which also reminds me:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
I know silly silly me.
They don't see it
?First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.? Mahatma Gandhi
Well, we’ve been ignored. It’s not unreasonable to presume that at least some laughter has take place. Next.
Be careful that the home of liberty is not foreclosed on. Those payments must be kept up. That bank takes blood too.
Re:
This from the guy who’s go to line used to be “fuck off and die?”
Daydreams
What? For real?
Re:
Hmmm. Americans have something called loyality. We would rather stay and fight then run away and adbandon our country.
“move somewhere else to make a better life.”
Yeah, they move here.
If I move to Germany, I will never be a German, if I move to Italy, I will never be and Italian, and if I move to France, I will never be a frenchman, but anyone moves here and they too can be American.
Fucked up as it may be, and be going, I would not trade it for the world.
Re:
Where else can you travel 2000 miles, say “well, fuck”, and have complete strangers understand the exact nuance you were trying to convey? I’d miss that. That and cheeseburgers.
Re:
Something’s starting to tell me that may, in part, be by design.
Can’t leave: 50%
Don’t want to leave, good money, friends etc: 40%
Could care less: 6%
Don’t understand the question: 3%
Designing this: 1%
Re:
Why yes, ill byte:
Yo mama so fat were in her right now.
Re:
Yeah so the US will soon have it own internet. Its will have a couple 1000 “channels” controlled by content owners while the rest of the world gets a real working internet.
Suddenly, The Freenet Project doesn’t look as useless as it did a few months ago.
Daydreams
And sadly when the dot com’s burst I had just gotten out of computer school and couldn’t find shit. The gov didnt care and was soo stupid. They kept telling me they were gonna garnish my wages. I laughed at them because I had no wages at the time. I told them if they didnt help me I would drop off the grid and disappear. They then set up a forbearance for me until I got back in the groove. Even after that I was not able to get the payment below 130 a month. Worst decision ever to borrow money from the Government.
I feel for you Lobo. Its a shitty position to be in. Its not like I didn’t want to pay. It will get better. Just remember to fill out the forbearance forms when they expire.
They don't see it
If they were only ignoring the Constitution, it wouldn’t be quite as bad. Seems to me more like they’re actively working to render it totally worthless.
They don't see it
If they were only ignoring the Constitution, it wouldn’t be quite as bad. Seems to me more like they’re actively working to render it totally worthless.
Re:
These are very good points all.
I know, screw borders! I say let people rule the world – all the people, all the world. What? Too hard? Too soon?
Re:
Never said that I was classy, little boy.
Go outside and let the grown-ups have their talk.
I suspect by “almost all” here you mean “almost 100%”, which actually means something very different and is very misleading.
The problem is that it’s also true that 98% the net job growth was from the non-tradable sector of the economy, especially government and health care, but equally meaningless. The issue is that 98% sounds like “almost all”, but in fact it could be a tiny portion of the total new jobs if there were big enough job losses in other industries (and another faster growing industry might even account for, say, 150% of the net new jobs).
See this blog post by a mathematician about this issue for a better explanation with more examples.
Re:
Stupid websites… they’re so hard to roll up.
Where’s the good old paper?
Re:
Yo momma’s so fat, the US government is using her to block the internet.
I have an idea for a law
I can’t resist … what color is the sky on the planet your living on?
Re:
Canada?
RE
“The right of people …”
It’s only “property” when it benefits the powerful. For the rest of us, well … it’s whatever – anything but property. It’s the dual system of justice and economics.
I have an idea for a law
The fundamental social flaw here isn’t that we don’t have enough regulations, but that we have too many. Kill government and you kill your problems.
… that’s not to say that life would be easy-peazy, but it would be easiER. And the global economy might actually start to heal.
Re:
Well, to be fair, they didn’t influence Bin Laden.
Oh, wait…and yet the public is the terrorist group stifling democracy?
Re:
If you read why te US felt it had a right to extradict Dotcom, etc. it was because their websites targeted US citizens. So as long as your servers and domain are outside of the US – AND you don’t serviced US citizens, then you can probably do whatever you want to without concern about US laws.
Several cyberlockers are blocked to US address’ now. I expect to see more of that. I know several others have dropped com/net address’. That’s obviously going to become more common.
The good news is that with all this data moving elsewhere, the US government will have a harder time mining it.
Daydreams
Need citation please. I find this very interesting but rather improbable.
Re:
I have to disagree with that. There was a real ‘brain drain’ in the US mid-2000’s from people wanting to immigrate to another country such that a number of open borders closed or created waitlist’s. Canada is over a 7 year waitlist if your occupation is on their “A” list (what they need). Even Costa Rica closed borders to US who wanted to move while still working. Belieze tightened their requirements as well. It’s not so easy to find a country unless you are independently wealthy/retired. That eliminates a lot of people.
So why is none of this in the news?
I have an idea for a law
@AC: On my planet the sky is nice and blue and smog free. This sky swirls over a land where treachery of people, of government, and of corporation no longer exists. The people here are open and honest with each other, even when they hate each other.
On my world the government fears its people, not the other way around. And due process and justice still exists in full force. Here the government actually honors things such as the Constitution and the Bill of Rights instead of openly dancing on the tatters of the documents.
I have an idea for a law
I would like to wipe the slate clean. Deny entry into the new government to anyone that was part of the old government. Write new laws and keep the corporations out of it. The laws would be about the people, BY the people, and for the people. They would strive to understand the world and its changes and not cower away from them in attempt to hold back the crushing wall of change.
Shameful. Almost as shameful as the White House hiring Google’s Andrew McLaughlin.
Re:
You REALLY think that the news, which is owned by Murdoch and others that supported SOPA and PIPA, CARE about the fact that internet business is moving out of the United States?
See, to them, the internet is either A: used for piracy and not much else or B: doesn’t really exist.
Hollywood doesn’t get technology, at all. Go watch CSI or Law and Order episodes where they use the net…
“Oh, we found out who he was because he was a Hockey fan online.”
Seriously? That’s how they do it?
Yeah, they don’t care, they don’t understand, why would they report on it?
doesn't matter
It’s more basic than that. It’s a “giving a dangerous tool to irresponsible, greedy people” problem.
I have an idea for a law
Such a world will never exist. And you are delusion to throw your rights away in the pursuit of one.
Daydreams
Not to mention that you’ll be hard pressed to find a country that will take you. Unless you’re wealthy or have a skill that the country is in desperate need of, immigrating is nearly impossible.
Re:
Australia?
Re:
If you mean the major news outlets, it’s because they don’t actually ever do news. They do entertainment.
Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 17th, 2012 @ 12:11pm
Haha good one
I have an idea for a law
All those things you mentioned are pretty much illegal. It’s rather stupid to think you’d need more laws for CP and terrorism. both already VERY illegal and very punishable in court.
If this tendency continues to increase, it is only a matter of time the government realizes they just screwed themselves out of their most important economic sector.
I have an idea for a law
Eh… About 50/50. Among the legal things on that list:
Religious beliefs
Hate speech
Anti-government speech
Copyrighted material
At least in the US, these are all legal. For the moment.
Petition
Sign this petition and get the whitehouse to comment
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/stop-harassing-companies-jotform-they-are-scaring-us-businesses-using-us-web-services-costing-jobs/BV02RmfS
They don't see it
I think there may be a typo here. What the US Government seems to be having difficulty seeing, is Internet businesses as megabuck contributors.
doesn't matter
Tool #1: The ability to communicate freely over the internet.
Tool #2: The ability to seize domains or hardware.
Designerfx is talking about #1.
Backward
The world of safety and security will never exist.
I have an idea for a law
What do you think of applying a kind of legal due process to legislation?
Considering my exit strategy now...
My GF and I are considering moving out of the US after she completes her doctorate work. (about a year and a half) and are actively looking at candidate countries to move to. Hopefully emigration from the US doesn’t become too much of an issue.
Re:
HAHAHA… is right, I was thinking exactly the same thing..
Live Well Online
“American ingenuity”
Such as ????????
Re:
dont get out much do you ???
there are ALOT of ex-pat Americans, throughout the world, alot in Australia, and they have next to NO trouble immigrating. (assuming they have some stills).
because your racist
so you would not move because you are racists !!!
probably the real reason why most Americans would not move either.
You might want to look at your own history, and you will find you are allready Italian, german, english, European or asian.
What you most certainly are not is “American”…
Re:
Kim Dotcom didn’t use the LLC proxy apparently, you know like every other dishonest media entertainment company out there do.
I have an idea for a law
And with no incentive for a corporation to back it, no country with a direct inventive to support it, and several countries actively against the idea, nothing like this, even though it’s a good idea, would ever pass.
We’re much better off working on technology efforts and other methods of circumvention to free the web from government control, while at the same time actively fighting legislation like SOPA, PIPA, and ACTA
I have an idea for a law
Good idea, but name one international law that is actually enforced upon powerful nations like the US if those nations choose to ignore those laws.
Another reason for vote for Ron Paul!
Re:
If anyone does not like anyones content they will be able to potentially have it removed if they can get the attention of an authority simply by the making the acuization the materiel is copyrighted, whether true or not…identical to the inquizition where the mere acuzation that you are a witch means you must be treated as a witch.
#4 is impossible.
Re:
dna evolution – people with 6 fingers or toes are already having a war waged against them.
Re:
We also don’t generally speak anything but English, and most Americans don’t want to learn something else, which limits our options. I understand a lot (most?) of Europeans speak English, and in my very limited experience you can get by with just English in a lot of places (until you learn the local language).
I have an idea for a law
and who would pass this law, the international council?
I have an idea for a law
That’s a pretty one dimensional view. Killing the government? Doesn’t that mean no government? Head over to Somalia and see how that works! Entities with a ton of money to spend would just fill in the power vacuum.
Migrate yourself to a non-US controlled country.
4. Migrate yourself to a non-US controlled country.
Where is that place? The place where the US Gestapo cannot enter and pillage at will? Russia? China?
I feel safer already. (snark)
because your racist
It’s not that.
As bad as things are in America for a lot of stuff…
Well, you can look to almost any other country…
And it’s worse.
They hate immigrants more than we do.
Re:
They won’t realize it until it’s too late.
I have an idea for a law
> I would like to pass an international law that says that no country has sovergn control over the internet at all. Since the internet is world wide and thus international, no one countries laws should be able to control or dictate it AT ALL.
Oh, God, no.
> That means no censorship.
Riiight.
Re:
AC, man you seem smart, know a lot, and have strong convictions. How about using that energy to help muster a solution, and get it inacted, rather than be a jerk to people on your side?
I have an idea for a law
I don’t think we could pass a no-sovergn control status on the internet, since the US Government did kinda invent the thing (Google/Wiki ARPANET).
But no, the US Government should not, and should never shut down a website like this…this is becoming the Great Firewall of the US. 🙁
Sorry but I don’t see how this is a bad thing.
Less businesses in the US = less tax money going to the US government – the same government that killed 100k Iraqi civilians in retaliation for 9/11, and the same government that thinks it rules the world and forces it’s crazy copyright laws on other nation.
Re:
Are the grown ups talking outside? Clearly they aren’t going to stay in the room with you.
I have an idea for a law
I have some tar i can melt. Too bad i don’t have any feathers to volunteer as well. How about a bunch of styrofoam peanuts or chopped fiberglass?
Live Well Online
It’s okay; calm down. Nobody expects you to know about these complicated concepts.
Think Of It As a Loyalty Filter
The only businesses that will move overseas because of trifling little peccadilloes like these are the disloyal ones; the loyal ones will stay. And the net result will be an increase in the quality of 100% pure, all-American-based businesses that are willing to continue living in one nation under God, meaning our Almighty Christian, non-Jew, non-Muslim and definitely non-Atheist, God. Win-win, I say!
Re:
The concept of a read-only internet is such a horror to contemplate. The sheer absurdity of the injustice the idea proposes is framed by the alarming reality that it has all but yet been publicly embraced by forces operating in tandem with a corrupt state. I only wonder what sort of misanthropic, criminal mind is required to take action toward such a thing and believe it’s in the right.
they create and try to create...
these laws because they don’t have control. They saw this with OWS, overseas in many nations, and in their back yards. They also saw what the Internet was capable of doing when they tried to pass SOPA. That just irks them. It tore a hole into their control and grabbed at the heart of them.
As long as the people are diligent in stopping them hopefully we have a fighting chance. But we should never turn our backs on them. Because they are or could turn into backstabbers.
As far as business is concerned I guess it is time for the business sector to have their own revolt. Gov never has liked anyone going against their grain. They like robots, they like followers not leaders. They hate fighters even if it is a fight with a pen.
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If they destroy it and lock it down, then they can hand over rights to the entertainment industry and then subsidize their continued failure to understand how to sell on value.
Re:
Just because there are people who are against a damaging impact to the domestic economy doesn’t mean that they aren’t also opposed to these things. In fact, let’s do a bit of synthesis. You mention opposition to a US government acting without concern for external entities, in terms of military action and trade (copyright). Since the reason that this exodus is occurring — a very real hazard to the future of distributed storage and cloud computing — is the same US government acting in much the same manner, at the behest of the same corporate parties, the situation really isn’t any different. The big difference so far is that they haven’t whipped up any domestic military action yet, but don’t worry, i’m sure we’ll have that gap filled in the years to come.
Yes. There are other injustices in this whole mess. There are other injustices in the entire world, but for sake of brevity we rely on an implied understanding that if a community is against the actions of a corrupt state, they’re against the existence of corruption, not the actions alone.
I have an idea for a law
Servers do run great in sub zero temperatures…
dot com is a global domain. US should not have control over it.
Re:
lame retort. try again.
because your racist
Sorry, but with all due respect, you are very wrong on that issue, few if any countries were established as the US was by the labor of black slavery. And few countries held onto slavery and the repression of black people to the degree that still occures in the US.
Racism is even a formal part of your US constitution, how many other countries wrote racism into theirconstitutions ?
You know in the US there were still black slaves in the 1960’s ?
racism in ingrained and entrenched in your colture.
the comment “they hate immigrants more than we do” is a statement of racism !
and stating “it’s bad here, but it’s worse everywhere else” is also a statement of racism.
It is not your fault, it’s your culture, it is just the way americans are brought up and educated.
Most if not all other countries are far more multi-culturaly tolerent generally than the average American.
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yes, or the White House being built by black slaves !!!
oh wait _
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are you really that limited with the depth of news you get in America ?
you cannot list other sources for factual information that Murdoch and FOX ?
I live in Australia, and I watch daily your PBS news program, they appear to be very balanced, and accurate with their coverage of news and events.
Do you get that in America ? or are you forced to watch FOX news ?
Even our local regional news covers any major events that are occuring in the United States, and world wide.
Im am sure in our little backwater of Australia I can be kept well informed of events in the US, and have available news programs from all over the world.
So I have to wonder why or how you can claim you are so uninformed because you live in America ?
Re:
That time has allready past, a very long time ago.
Post WW2 it’s been mostly downhill….
when you are over $10 tillion dollars down to china, (and have given up on your manufacturing industry) you are screwed……… !!!!!
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I hear Sealand is beautiful this time of year.
Re:
*Yawn* Go away, little boy, the grown-ups are talking now.
I have an idea for a law
The problem with this is that the US government has a fundamental control over the Internet that they have not YET given away. I believe it is the Department of Commerce that has complete authority over it -since the internet itself was invented by the US government, they claim this jurisdiction to this day. Now I may be wrong about the level they can assert – maybe it’s just over the .com/.org/.edu TLDs, etc. but they believe they have a kill switch if they want to use it.
I have an idea for a law
That’s not how international politics works. If a country believes that a “law” is more restricting to it than it is beneficial, it would just say SUCK IT to the international community and ignore it. What’s going to happen if a country fails to comply to an “international law?” would they go to jail?
because your racist
Is that so? Americans didn’t have Stalin, Pol Pot, Unit 731, Hutus vs. Tutsis, or the Holocaust.
Also: Slavery in the 1960s…heh. You’re off by about 100 years, cat.
I have an idea for a law
How would it be enforced? To the same success as other international law? Nations, friend, are lawless.
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Less businesses in the US = less tax money going to the US government – the same government that killed 100k Iraqi civilians in retaliation for 9/11,
We didn’t pay for that with tax revenue, we borrowed the money. So that isn’t really related.
because your racist
It is not your fault, it’s your culture, it is just the way americans are brought up and educated.
Most if not all other countries are far more multi-culturaly tolerent generally than the average American.
And we’re the prejudiced ones?
I have an idea for a law
What’s going to happen if a country fails to comply to an “international law?”
Trade sanctions, I think.
They don't see it
Aku Soku Zan
and such like.
Live Well Online
indeed. it is quite hard to imagine things that don’t fit within the bounds of reality 😛
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actually, his real problem is that he hid in NZ while we had a government who’s only intelligible position is ‘we want to be able to collect bribes legitimately like the US politicians do’. well, that and ‘hey, guys, let’s see how badly we can wreck the economy while still turning a personal profit’.
unfortunately.
I have an idea for a law
There’s a new HUGE server part on Svalbard.
The problem with Antarctica would be getting power there…
Re:
personally, i put it down, along with several other problems, to the fact that the USA is stupidly huge.
it’s bigger than Europe.
that much land area under one government is Always going to end up having issues just due to the practical issues of running it.
‘cept maybe russia and china, in most parts of the USA you’ve got to go further just to GET to the border than you do anywhere else to hop several countries.
(if this is less coherant than it could be… well.. it’s after 7am and i’ve not yet slept.)
because your racist
… the claims of racism were misaimed too. the biggest thing for this particular issue is, actually, ‘culturalism’… or whatever the proper term is for that.
the sterotypical bad american tourist is always going on about how everything back home is better (even when that is measurably untrue).
most streotypes have their Origins in the real world… the source of this one is probably a contributing factor.
also, a problematic mix of the US public and government seem to confuse ‘patriotism’ with ‘blind fanaticism’. that doesn’t help anything.
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and anywhere with a welfare program doesn’t want you if you’ve retired unless you’re a millionaire, either.
Re:
Maybe so, but perhaps it’s equally interesting to note that we did pay for the entertainment industry’s influence in our government. We paid for it when we went to the theater or when we bought that new blu-ray. As for where the government gets the funds to follow through… that’s just an entire other rant.
Re:
actually, it apparently IS that bad in some parts of the US.
and the people responsible for it being that way want to force the same model on the rest of us.
worrisome, no?
Migrate yourself to a non-US controlled country.
Poland seems like an even bet if you’ve got money to start with and no one’s trying to conquer Europe at the time.
Think Of It As a Loyalty Filter
….
can’t tell if sarcasm…
or just stupid.
(seriously, anywhere but the US, that last line would give it away as sarcastic. there? not so much.)
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> Internet startups create most jobs?
> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
last year google had 32,000 employees 14 years ago they were an internet startup.
Apple, although not strictly an internet startup, now does most of its business ON the itnernet, 60,000 employees, founded ’78, and recently mentioned in congress as a role model for other US businesses.
the point being, some of the world’s biggest brands operating online were yesterday’s american startups. The US should be fostering an environment for new startups to prosper, not scaring them away.. the damage may not be seen for 10,20,30 years, but by that point the US is already projected to no longer be the #1 global economy.
I have an idea for a law
“It is quickly coming to the point that all of us that feel that we (was ‘way’ FTFY) need to stand up and show it.”
This is a global phenomena that is spreading as social media and web 2.0 expand and allow people to discuss what is occurring in the world. However the governments of the world are only allowing input from corporations and disallowing any input from the public. Combined this is leading to resentment and anger towards every government and many corporations. Eventually it will reach a breaking point, where people say “enough already” and things will change.
For some reason I do not feel sorry for the scum bags …
Government & normality
Government employees and especially politicians do tend to beleive that whatever they do is normal – it’s simple psychology. That’s why there’s a Constitution.
I have an idea for a law
I totally agree with Pjerky. NO country should have control over world wide affairs such as the internet and I for one am getting more than a little fed up with governmental entities trying to stick their brown noses into, and threaten, the very existence of the internet as we know it.
I have an idea for a law
Ahhhh, such a bad idea. Creating International laws would lead to an international government. An international government would require an international police force to keep these laws in check. An international police force could potentially give the government carte blanche powers. This is basically absolute power. Power corrupts. Imagine a corrupt international police force supported by every government.
If you want a law, how about an international law that prohibits the idea of intellectual property. The concept is absurd anyway.
Think Of It As a Loyalty Filter
(seriously, anywhere but the US, that last line would give it away as sarcastic. there? not so much.)
The user name should help you out there.
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He can only smoke it if you put it in his pipe…
(that means post a link to verifiable data)
No..they are scaring away start ups who want to plagiairize and break laws. People who shouldn’t be in business in the first place. IT is simple…make your OWN content. Taking someone else’s and posting it on a new page is not a business plan. On ANY country.
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+100, exactly !!!!!
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yes, very very worrisome
it reminds me of “the abolition of stupidity” from the Illuminanti Papers.
Where he talk about keep Americans stupid (uninformed) because otherwise they ask too many questions!
Dont want you citizens thinking for yourselves.
But in the age of the internet, everyone should be able to gain accurate, and UNBIASED summaries of events, based on actual facts.
Not someone opinion, and is usually the case for site such as this one.
People want and need facts to form their own opinion, but in the US it is the opinion that comes first. You are not allowed to infer your own opinion based on the available facts.
Look at this site, perfect example, Masnick filters and ‘refactors’ the facts, and provides his readers with his opinion. He tells you what to think.
So Masnick and techdirt are perpetuating the same principle that your Government has employed, “keep em stupid and happy”. and on NO account, let them THINK for themselves.
That is why a great deal of the time I am against the way Masnick conducts his web site, and how he puts his opinion of that of facts.
This culture of having someone else think for you, has led the US down a path where they have given up on using intelligence for progress.
In US terms, you’ve gone from being the nerd, to the joc, to the playground bully.
And it is the fault of your government, your media, and people like Masnick,
Once again, masnick does not want to keep you informed of the facts, he wants to keep you informed of his opinion of the ‘factoids’ he has dug up. He does not want you to form your own opinion, or to even think about the issues. NO, he wants to you dumbly consume his opinion and releave you of the necessity to think or form your own opinion.
This ‘dumbing’ down of Americans is reflected in your massive declines in manufacturing, technology, science, health care.
It does appear that the majority of Americans do not even know much about what is happening in America, let along the rest of the world. Whereas, most other countries are far less insuler, we are far more aware of events throughout the world. And we fully understand that most Americans have little or not interest or understanding of other countries, or cultures..
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John, and where do you get the majority of your news from ?
what is your ‘major news outlet’ ? Please please dont say “techdirt” HAHAHAHA….
Do you seek news ? ie do you actually make an effort to find a source of unbiased new covering the events you are interested in ?
Or do you expect to be ‘spoon fed’ your news, like someone telling you what to think and how to feel, forming some opinions for you to use in conversation?
Think Of It As a Loyalty Filter
sarcastic or stupid does not matter, the problem is that either way, is the fact that it is TRUE…
except he left off “non-whites” as well on his list..
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No..they are scaring away start ups who want to plagiairize and break laws.
Except that they have been shutting down domains of people who have not broken any law.
Exhibit A: Jotform. Absolutely nothing whatsoever that they did was unlawful in any way, shape, or form. Yet their domain was still shut down.
If you can get shut down when you haven’t done anything wrong, of course you’re going to go somewhere else. It’s hardly rocket science.
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+100, exactly !!!!!
When Darryl agrees with you, you know you’re in trouble.
I have an idea for a law
Hi Pjerky,
Just take a look a this idea I came up with a few monthes ago. Sorry part is in Spanish, I’m from Spain, but you will find the main reasoning is done in English.
Declare Internet “Intangible cultural Heritage of Humanity”
http://actuable.es/peticiones/declarar-internet-como-patrimonio-cultural-inmaterial-la
Regards
Francisco George
Advice
I just posted the comment below on Hacker News (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3608968):
As someone who has been in the Internet business from the beginning with a number of startups under my belt and who “migrated myself to a non-US controlled country” (East and SE Asia) 25 years ago I would offer my the following formula for happiness:
1. Set up your company outside of the US.
2. Don’t keep a bank account in the same country that your company is in.
3. Don’t have customers in the same country that your country is in or where your bank account is.
4. Don’t live in the country where your company, bank account or customers are.
5. Don’t live in the same time zone as your in-laws.
I live in Thailand (for 13 years now) and have a company in Singapore. We are opening companies in Laos this year then Cambodia and then Burma over the next two years. My Bank Accounts are in Hong Kong. I try to find customers in any country other than those listed above, and the States.
Bandwidth is better out here than in most places in the States. And hardware is cheaper because you’re buying closer to the source. And as long as you aren’t living in Singapore, Hong Kong or Toyko, the cost of living is far cheaper than in the States.
This is not as difficult as it might seem. It’s great living out here, and I would encourage everyone to do the same.
BTW our latest startup is an infrastructure for the semantic Web and about as cutting edge as you could hope for, so don’t whine about how you can only do your startup in Silicon Valley. The future is here, not in the States.
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I want to know where all these ‘ima-ungrats’ are coming from to bring THEIR culture to us and change ours to theirs and change our way of life to CONFORM to theirs and laws?? When I am in their country I MUST speak THEIR lingo and OBEY THEIR laws and face the ‘YANKEE’ Bias B.S. NUKE-EM and let their Dic-Drag’in Allah take all the rapist and child molesters,inbeed’in,iliterate,scum-bag-in pork-bacon suckers drown in The West developed oil wells that camels their mothers fornicated with could not suck it out! Sorry for the rant but P.C. is ‘JUST’ a speed (camel hump) bump to the TRUTH! Sorry,But ALLAH RAPED all your virgins FIRST! LMAOFF!
Re:
If Mike Masnick was really trying to control our thoughts there would be no comments here. What I’m seeing here is a lot of debate on the issue. Other people are asked to state their rebuttals, as you were.
If you want you can go find another website that states opinions that are the exact opposite. Those of us who read Tech Dirt like it the way it is.
Go start your own website and spout your own opinions. I’m sure you would find followers who like it too.
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There goes Masnick again, snooping on people’s IP addys.
He’s really taking the surveillance and spying example set by his paymasters seriously.
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Russia? Actually not a fair comparison — 3000km barely gets you a little way across that country. But “nu, chto blya” means the exact same thing over all 11 of their timezones.
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Techdirt is an opinion source, not a news source, so no.
Expecting to be spoon-fed news is exactly what I’m decrying here, by the way. I’m not sure why you’d expect that I want that myself.
There is no such thing as a single source of reliable news. The only way to go is to get news from a variety of sources, and don’t believe a word of it until enough time has gone by that the accuracy can be discerned — and eventually, it can be.
I get my news from a variety of sources. I ignore sources that have unquestionably proved themselves to be unreliable — this includes nearly all US news sources. But even the ones which are largely reliable cannot be trusted without question. You still need multiple sources of independent reporting.
This problem with news isn’t even a question of bias. I’ve been on the inside of a number of major news stories reported in US outlets that had no political or social controversy about them. In every single case, even the most basic facts of the stories weren’t just wrong, but ridiculously wrong. I’m not talking about vapid TV news, I’m talking about news reported by respected newspapers. This is a fundamental problem with news nowadays: it contains little-to-no actual journalism.
News should always be read with this in mind.
TV news is even worse — it is more like anti-news, as often you are left more ignorant than when you started, but believing that you are informed.
emigration
Actually there are many millions (at least 10) of Americans who have already left the country. More all the time – there is more freedom for individuals in other countries and in many cases at least as good a lifestyle.
I would say the reason americans don’t emigrate is that they are subjected to cradle-to-grave propaganda designed to keep them dumb, docile and under control.
Re:
He’s technically not snooping on people’s IP addresses. He sees them, but since you’re an AC, he doesn’t have any info about you beyond what your IP address provides. Which isn’t much. For example, he has no idea what your real name is or profession.
However, what it does allow him to see/know is which comments are yours. The fact that you are nothing but a troll who has a habit of being verbally abusive to everyone on this site, does give him some leeway as far as pointing out which comments are yours or quoting things you’ve previously stated.
If Mike really were snooping on you and spying and all that jazz, he’d just make it a point to point you out in every article you comment in (which is most).
Think about that before you keep posting such stupidity. He can’t out you by name and all that, but he can out you as the specific AC you are. Perhaps if you behave and act like an adult, instead of a troll, he’d show you the courtesy he shows others.
Or to put it in a better manner, “Keep acting like an asshole, you’ll get treated like an asshole.”
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at least I dont just troll.
doesn't matter
Oops, my bad!
Income for the Movie/Recording industry
Actually, it is far less than 1% of the total US enconomy.
The Internet control and/or manages more money worth of Material to US businesses in less than a day that the Music/recording produces in a Year!
Obama not mentioned
Complain about the Feds, but don’t mention the one person who could stop these shutdowns – Obama.
Democrats supported SOPA more than Republicans, Reid wants to reintroduce it under a different name, but it’s so vital to elect Democrats, right?
Obama not mentioned
Complain about the Feds, but don’t mention the one person who could stop these shutdowns – Obama.
Democrats supported SOPA more than Republicans, Reid wants to reintroduce it under a different name, but it’s so vital to elect Democrats, right?
I have an idea for a law
Did you know Hate groups have copywritten material in the US Library of Congress? That place also has a copoy machine charging about a dime a copy for anything in the place. So do most US Public libraries.
Wild to know that Neo-nazis organizations can use those proposed anti-piracy laws to get US taxpayer’s to pay for their operations, and also hurt the US government as well.
Obama not mentioned
Democrats supported SOPA more than Republicans
Not really. Prior to the blackouts, support was about even on both sides of the aisle. Plus, the only two politicians who participated in the blackouts (Earl Blumenauer and Anna Eshoo) are both Democrats.
IP laws are, sadly, one area of politics where the Democrats and Republicans are both equally insane.
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at least I dont just troll.
Referring to me, or Darryl? If you’re referring to me, feel free to look at my profile, and read the posts I wrote. I do not troll.
If you’re referring to Darryl… then never mind.
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There are about the same number of new jobs created in IT each year as there are H1B1 visas issued
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There goes Masnick again, snooping on people’s IP addys.
Actually, while I guess I could have, I recognize that troll by what he says. No spying needed. He identifies himself.
As do you, by the way.
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ahh,, Mansick, you are not adverse to a bit of trolling yourself, it is clear…
we’ll why not, it’s easier than making a point !!! right…
Live Well Online
you can troll better than you can think, I notice you did not provice ANY examples.. so has the only thing the US has developed recently is a ‘smart mouth’.. ?
You’re failure to reply clearly shows you also cannot give examples of “American ingenuity”..
Name them of shut the fuck up…
Congrats, US Government:
Well this is one subject that is getting blowing way out of proportion. Just because someone is downloading their favorite artist or movie ect does not make them a pedophile or a terrorist.. I mean seriously wtf I know our government thinks we’re a bunch of hillbilly’s but Music + Download in no way I don’t care how you add it up does not = pedophile. Lets see it what it could be though.
Music + Download = Broke
Music + Download = Parents will not let the kid buy it.
Music + Download = Greedy (This one depends since you can pretty much listen to anything on youtube and ad free if you use a blocker” So if you block ads is it the same as download it illegally from a torrent or fs locker. I mean for all technical reasons blocking the ad = your view did not pay them. I’ve not seen a ad on youtube in years. Same with hulu since I bypass them also. If I wanted ads I would go watch tv.
Now lets classify some of the shit that does add up to the definition of some of the other things listed.
Download/Upload + Inappropriate images/video of kids = PEDOPHILE
Sending Emails/Chats of plans to overthrow a government = Terrorist
Buying stuff to make a bomb = Terrorist
Using violence to promote your cause = Terrorist
Using the government to pass laws to strip people of freedoms = Terrorist
Using comparisons of unrelated topics to cause fear to promote new laws = Terrorist
Demanding Internet service providers to scan all content for copyright breaches = Terrorist
BTW GJ Euro for tell them HELL NO!
Even considering these laws forcing millions to protest is a act of terrorism. We have better things to do than have to protest your shit that should’ve never been brought up in the first place.
Ways to end file sharing by me. “Do not take me serious on this lol”
Least effective to most.
1. Pass your laws to censor the internet.
This might stop some of it but there are plenty ways around all that. What effect will it have on us?
A. Violent protest/Governments Overthrown. “Not the way to go but such laws and the reverse progression they would cause is seriously going to piss people off”
B. A insane budget will be needed to cover cost. “Making us more broke and closer to a massive collapse”
C. Other companies demanding their products not be shared either. This could include items simple as a hammer or giving someone a ride to work.”Why? Because sharing is sharing and if you loan someone a hammer you could potentially be costing black n decker billions in hammer sales.”
D. Militarization & Police states. “They have to be sure you’re not going to loan the guy next door some sugar or whatnot.”
2. Make the laws passed punishable by death.
This is probably going to scare most people beyond ever downloading again after a few people get the char for downloading some Johnny Bravo.
3. Kill the internet.
It’s going to be back to bootlegged dvds now.
3.1 Kill dvds.
It’s going to be back to bootlegged vhs now.
3.2 Kill all technology.
It’s back to forged chiseled rock pr0n for us now.
The point is it will never be stopped.. If it can be shared I can guarantee at one point or another it will be. It can be a movie some sugar a hammer your car some smokes a cd or whatever. You do not hear black n decker bitching because someone is loaning the neighbor a drill.
If I watch a shitty movie they will not give me my money back unless I had a gun, but then I would be imprisoned for 30 years for my 8$ ticket. If I buy something from Wal-Mart and it was a piece of shit they will give me a refund with little question.
My name is Drew
I refuse to spend my money on movies or music.
I refuse to watch movies or music anymore.
I’ve not seen a movie or used my ipod since Jan.
I’m one person and my few bucks I’ve been saving up I’m actually using it for activities that requires more effort than picking up a remote.
It might not seem like much but if enough of us do it they will change their minds on what should be done.
Like this message? Like your freedoms?
If so that’s great! You can buy a copy of this message from me for $4.99 but you better act fast this offer is limited while supplies last. LOL sorry could not help myself there but seriously post it somewhere ans fight them sobs!
Congrats, US Government:
Erm if you do fix the typo at the bottom 🙁
while supplies last. LOL sorry could not help myself there but seriously post it somewhere >>>>ans
I have an idea for a law
Solar is great for half the year…
I have an idea for a law
Team America: F*** yeah!
RE
Is the Second Amendment helping at all?
RE
meh, we started chipping away at that amendment a while ago… in some states you can’t even bear arms (open carry restricted, hand gun restrictions by area, etc.)
Live Well Online
your right, American ingenuity cant be boxed in… thats why everyone’s moving out of the US.
Re:
Umm… Once you “reneg” on your citizenship, I wish you luck getting back into the country to visit family and friends. They can reject you for ANY reason and you have to legally declare you’re a former American citizen when you re-enter.
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I’ll do the same. Cut my Internet too. I’ll never buy anything new again. Just used junk or rent movies including video games. They won’t get a dime from me. No way. Heck. I might not even do that either.
The us government is trying to shut the us down and has been for a long time…..
The government is not working for us at all and they don’t have our best interests in mind but we just keep paying them. Has anyone been seeing how much money they spend on silly things like vacations or clothes or wars or embasies or anything else? No! Because we are too busy watching some million aire hit a baseball or football or TV. The whole world is watching us with gays in the military and lose women and drugged out kids and parents our borders are being compromised and so much more. What a shame! I was going to go more into it but why waste my time no one really cares people just like to cry and moan but never will do anything about it. I understand though because we have let it get so far that if you try to stand up now they have laws in place now that you will be called a terrorist and killed or imprisoned. So Thanks but no thanks there will be no thanks given. Look up obama and larry sinclair on youtube or look up baraq obama in the strongs dictionary. Why did no one notice that obama osama one letter change because they are showing us how dumb we are while michele obuma is buying up $900.00 shoes and there are homeless all around DC. oh yeah and obumas birth certificate does not have the numbers at the bottom like it should. Why don’t they drug test the president or cops or judges or nurses or doctors but they do to work at blockbuster or Mcdonalds? DUH for DUMMIES!
FUD
The fear campaign for the anti-SOPA piracy apoligists moves on regardless of the fact that SOPA is dead and it ever passing as unlikely hell hosting the winter olympics.
because your racist
US had the Indian wars. Obliterate the indians at every opportunity.
Re:
If you have a bone to pick with Masnick, that’s your problem. Individual points that you don’t agree with can be rebutted one by one, with sources. The better the information presented here, the happier everyone is. If all you want to do is troll, though, please do it elsewhere.
I (sadly) tend to agree with your comments otherwise.
FUD
link to something relevant?
Congrats, US Government:
Well said