Channeling That Anti-SOPA Energy Into Getting Important DMCA Exemptions

from the sign-up-now dept

We've talked a bunch of times about the (somewhat ridiculous) process by which the public gets a shot, once every three years, to beg the US Copyright Office to throw the public a bone and grant "exemptions" to the ridiculous DMCA anti-circumvention clause. This process is completely backwards. The anti-circumvention clause is a disaster that should be dumped completely. It goes against the basic principles of fair use and leads to all sorts of ridiculous situations. The fact that the public needs to beg for fair use rights seems pretty crazy. Either way, it's that time again, and the EFF looks to be taking some of that fervent anti-SOPA (and now, anti-ACTA) energy and channeling some of it into convincing the Copyright Office to take these exemptions seriously. They've set up two sites: Each site lets you sign on to an open letter to the head of the US Copyright Office, and hopefully, finally get the Copyright Office to recognize that there are other constituents beyond the legacy entertainment industry players.... It's sad and ridiculous that the public has to beg for its own fair use rights every few years, but if it must happen, we might as well channel some of that interest and excitement into the system under which we live today. The more impact that can be made there... the more likely it is that a proactive effort in the future will actually make a difference.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:16am

    Why are they not taking up the most important cause, getting a permenant exemption for the purpose of making backup copies of DVDs? Copying media for archival purposes as a backup in the event of damage to the original has been part of copyright law for decades, and yet this very basic exemption is missing from the DMCA. I'm pretty sure court precedent would protect jailbreaking.

    Why does the EFF take up causes for special interest groups (video "artists") but largely ignores the needs of the public at large? Has the EFF beauracracy been infiltrated by remix artists?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:17am

    All the fucked up shit that is going on; jail-breaking and mix tapes are the target? Really? REALLY!!!!

    Bhaaaa bhaaaa bhaaa. We deserve what we get.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    icon
    Keroberos (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:20am

    ....hopefully, finally get the Copyright Office to recognize that there are other constituents beyond the legacy entertainment industry players....
    Really? Are there any other constituents? Well, they must not be very important, 'cause they don't give us high paying job when we retire or have major lobbying firms representing them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:23am

    the process

    Its flippin sad that the process that brought us SOPA/PIPA and all the other crap is just being ignored. But as long as the sheep can crack their phones and game consoles its ok. Unbelievable. Not even noon and my blood is boiling. ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    identicon
    jailbait, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:25am

    Re:

    Court precedent protects jailbreaking (for now), however, it is still illegal to be in possession of "jailbreaking" tools, even if you don't use them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:29am

    Re:

    The EFF has a policy of picking its battles. It probably realizes that a blanket exemption for ripping DVDs is impossible in the current system and is instead focusing on a more narrow exemption. I think that is probably the wise thing to do.

    However, there are other groups seeking the exact exemption you request, such as Public Knowledge.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:30am

    Re: the process

    What is being ignored? I don't understand what you are complaining about?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    icon
    MadCow (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:31am

    This may not be the best solution that us pro consumer rights readers want, but it's a step (however large or small you may see it) in the right direction. If we don't stand up for something, they'll strip it away. Small but consistent victories will hopefully win the war. Maybe not for us, but maybe hopefully our children or children's children so they may live in a truly free and rich cultured world.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    icon
    :Lobo Santo (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:31am

    Re: IKR

    I know, right!?

    We should totally be focussed on something important: like Californians illegally drinking unpasteurized milk or having their own chickens.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    icon
    Keroberos (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:31am

    Re:

    Because, unfortunately permanent exemptions would require an amendment to the existing DMCA, which means congress would have to pass it. Do you really see that happening? The EFF at least has been using the existing exemption process to try and lessen the worst of the abuses. Most people who want to back up their DVDs probably already do so (I know I do) regardless of its legality.

    Jailbreaking is important because many device manufacturers are bricking devices that have been jailbroken regardless of the reasons for jailbreaking. Ripping DVDs for educational/review/commentary purposes could get you sued. Backing up your personal DVD collection? Never heard of anyone getting in trouble for that.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:32am

    Re:

    Why does the EFF take up causes for special interest groups (video "artists") but largely ignores the needs of the public at large? Has the EFF beauracracy been infiltrated by remix artists?

    Possibly because it is easier to marshall a small group with a strong incentive than a large group with a weaker one. This sad fact of life is behind the existance of IP law inthe first place.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:37am

    Re: Re: IKR

    LOL. It is a non issue for me as I live in farmland in western Pa.

    They should be allowed to have chickens though. Ever had an omlet from freshly picked eggs? YUM!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:43am

    The issue for the ripping is that the small minded children that populate pirate boards and file lockers can't control themselves. They are unable to restrict themselves just to backing things up, they insist on sharing it with the world illegally.

    Your rights are restricted by those who abuse them. Fix the abuse, and the system can always be adapted. But the content producers know what happens when you had out ripping tools, you just have to go online to see. So sorry, until you can stop the children from doing so much damage, you cannot change the laws.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:47am

    Re: Re: IKR

    Correction: we should be focussing on more important things like capturing the domestic terrorists in Congress.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:52am

    Re: Re: the process

    It is the process of back room deals and bought and paid for politicians that is the problem. While you have this many peoples' attention, don't waste it on petty little things like jailbreaking, and mixtapes. Because if they do get the revisions they ask for, i believe, a great number of ppl will drop out because that's all they really care about. They will get their little inch while in the back rooms they will be chipping away, I believe, a provision at a time added to unrelated legislation to reach their goal. I just think they should be aiming higher up the ladder.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    icon
    :Lobo Santo (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:52am

    Re:

    "...you cannot change the laws."
    Are you for real? Here's a one word reply: FALSE. You CAN change laws.

    I'd list some example, but if the phenomenon isn't plain as the nose on your face (you DO have a nose, right?) then give further additional examples to not learn from would be a waste of my time.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:55am

    Re: But the content producers know what happens when you had out ripping tools

    Yes they do know exactly what will happen when you hand people tools to break the law;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 8:06am

    Re: Re:

    Thank you for intentionally misreading my comment.

    You can change any law you like, technically. However, you cannot change a law to satisfy your desires if the harm to the greater good is bigger than the benefit in general.

    TECHNICALLY you can change the law. But the law is unlikely to change because of the problems it would create.

    What EFF is really trying to do is expand fair use to cover almost every non-commercial or not intended for commercial use. It's an attempt to pretty much rip up all of the copyright law when it comes to individual use, and to even extend it to online distribution where the original creator doesn't intend commercial benefit - even if commercial benefit comes to others as a result.

    It's an insulting end run that makes SOPA look honest on it's face.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    icon
    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 8:07am

    Re:

    The issue of corruption is that the small minded children that populate corporate boards and legislatures can't control themselves. They are unable to restrict themselves just to passing good laws, they insist on passing ridiculously bad laws and spreading them around the world.

    Your rights are restricted by those who abuse the political process. Fix the abuse, and the system can be saved. But the public knows what happens when you hand out a free pass on bribery, you just have to go to Washington to see. So sorry, until you can stop the children from doing so much damage, we need to dissolve these political bonds.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 8:07am

    Re:

    I agree. And the other thing to consider here is timing. They have prior small victories (in the form of existing exemptions that were granted) that will be undone by allowing them to expire. This is one of the reason they are pushing this now. The EFF defends us on many different fronts. Only a few can be front and center at any one time.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    icon
    Gwiz (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 8:09am

    Re:

    Your rights are restricted by those who abuse them. Fix the abuse, and the system can always be adapted. But the content producers know what happens when you had out ripping tools, you just have to go online to see. So sorry, until you can stop the children from doing so much damage, you cannot change the laws.

    Fix the abuse? How about defining the actual impact (with actual facts and figures) of the this so called abuse first, then we can see if there is anything needs fixing.

    Sure, I can go online and see file sharing happening rather easily, but what I cannot seem to find is verifiable proof that this filesharing is actually economically damaging anyone.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 8:11am

    Re: the process

    "But as long as the sheep can crack their phones and game consoles its ok"

    So you'd rather the rights to use your own property as you wish and to reuse materials that you have been able to reuse a decade ago without problems disappear? You'd throw away these abilities (which include uses for scientific and security research, among other things) because you think that the average person would use those rights for trivial things?

    Just because the focus isn't currently on the government processes doesn't mean they've been forgotten. But, right now, which do you think is easier for people to achieve? Widespread changes to fundamental systematic structures in government or extending a law that's already in place and has a current method for extending it?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    icon
    Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 8:14am

    Re: Re: Re:

    You can change any law you like, technically. However, you cannot change a law to satisfy your desires if the harm to the greater good is bigger than the benefit in general.

    My mind boggles at how you can say this and still support the the continual ratcheting of copyright law against the public good for the benefit of a few tiny companies.

    Even you cannot possibly be that short sighted. Really, what are your motives here?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 8:16am

    Re:

    LOL, yeah that's right laws were never broken before the internet, piracy never existed before then and it's not possible to even consider allowing people rights until ever person on the globe is a saint. So long as any possible abuse against your corporate better is possible nobody should have rights (although, of course, you give a pass when it's them abusing laws for their agenda).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 8:57am

    Re: Re: Re: the process

    This is one of the many many efforts by the EFF to bring sanity back o copyright law. They are not dropping everything to focus on these exemptions. What makes you think that this is the only thing the EFF is doing?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:02am

    Re:

    I mentioned this in the last article on the EFF's exemption efforts.

    The evil pirates you deride so much are not waiting for laws to give them permission to rip their DVDs. Why is that hard to grasp? If they are doing what they want anyway regardless of what the law says, how will opening up the law to allow fair uses make things worse? Answer: It won't.

    People already jailbreak their phones, their game consoles and other personal electronics. The law isn't stopping them. Adding this exemption will only protect those that are doing so for fair uses. It will not protect people who actually infringe copyrights.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:38am

    Not fair use

    "The fact that the public needs to beg for fair use rights seems pretty crazy."

    True. But jailbreaking your phone isn't even a fair use question. It's not even a copyright question. It's a fundamental (physical) property right question. That the anti-circumvention portion of the DMCA prevents doing this is insane.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:52am

    Re:

    better yet, get a permanent exemption for ALL fair use.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:52am

    I submitted my inputs.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 10:01am

    Re:

    "Your rights are restricted by those who abuse them. Fix the abuse, and the system can always be adapted."

    Bull. My rights are being restricted by a small, but powerful, special interest group. That people abuse their rights in no way makes removing those rights from the general public OK. If it were, then we would have no rights whatsoever.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    icon
    btrussell (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 10:10am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Throw the dog a bone so it will quit growling.

    ""I think the first-sale doctrine... would say you have a right to sell your old game... and you have the right to purchase a used game... but the first-sale doctrine doesn’t require somebody to build a used book store, if you know what I mean," she continued. In other words, just because you can sell a used game doesn't mean the platform maker has to make it easy, or even possible, for the new owner to play it.
    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/01/is-it-legal-to-stop-people-from-selling-their-games. ars

    You have the right to sell your old game, but that doesn't mean that the publisher can't stop it from working.
    ?????
    Who can I sell it to?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 10:23am

    Re:

    Maybe I'm misreading you, but are you saying that pushing issues other than the most important issues makes you a sheep?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 10:27am

    Re: the process

    Its flippin sad that the process that brought us SOPA/PIPA and all the other crap is just being ignored.

    You can play that game forever. There is always something, somewhere that is a bigger problem. If you follow your logic to its natural ends, you reach the ridiculous conclusion that everybody in the world must focus on the world's worst problem any given time, and not think about anything else until it's solved - that the entire population has to take on the entire array of global problems one-at-a-time in descending order of importance. Well... that's just kind of silly.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 10:33am

    Re: Re: Re:

    What EFF is really trying to do is expand fair use to cover almost every non-commercial or not intended for commercial use. It's an attempt to pretty much rip up all of the copyright law when it comes to individual use, and to even extend it to online distribution where the original creator doesn't intend commercial benefit

    Pretty much, yeah. And a lot of us support that - because it makes a hell of a lot more sense than the lopsided way copyright works right now. It's hardly dishonest: most of us opposed to copyright laws will freely and openly admit that we believe fair use should cover "almost every non-commercial or not intended for commercial use" - at least I will, and I suspect plenty of people at the EFF will too. It's not something we're ashamed of - why would you think it is?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 11:15am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    I know it is not the only thing they are doing, it was them that made me aware in the first place. My point, and maybe I did not make myself clear enough, is that while the momentum is on our side, use it wisely, because it will not last long. Silly me for wanting to maximize the effort to things that really matter. I do not think mixtapes and jailbreaking are a higher priority than the corruption that brings forth the laws that make above mentioned acts illegal. It's like putting out secondary fires while leaving the burning inferno going. Tell the guy that is detained and tortured without a trial, or even the right to know what he is accused of:
    Its ok dude you can jailbreak your IPhone and make mixtapes. I am sure that will make him/her feel better.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 11:27am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    So? Tell the kid who dies of malnutrition before his tenth birthday: Its ok dude we are protecting adults from unlawful detention and torture.

    There's always someone with a worse problem than the one you're trying to tackle, but that doesn't invalidate the lesser problems.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 11:34am

    Re: Re: the process

    Mr asshole,
    "you reach the ridiculous conclusion that everybody in the world must focus on the world's worst problem any given time" - WOW you must have creskin like abilities to reach that conclusion from what I said. Never did I imply or suggest that. Keep off the drugs they are distorting your reality. You would make a good troll.(Oxymoron I know)

    I reached the conclusion that gathering a mass of people to try and get jailbreaking and mixtapes legal is a waste of good resources that will eventually vanish, when they could be using the resources to go after the cause not the effect.

    We will then be the ones playing whack-a-troll.

    Its OK Mr. Crab, I know if I said the sky was blue you would argue me to the death saying its something else. Kiss kiss.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 11:36am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Who is playing games now? Nice to see you can troll with the best of them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 11:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    What an asshole. You dont have many friends do you? All im saying is while the momentum is in the direction it is, take it a step further and address the real issue of back room dealings, and the process that brought it to us.

    You have a problem with that? Or just me? It is rhetorical, no need to answer, we all know the answer.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 11:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    I'm not trying to troll you. I'm telling you I fundamentally disagree with your philosophy. You are the one flipping out that this effort is being directed incorrectly - I'm afraid I don't agree, because I think that's a mentality that can only lead to ridiculous conclusions.

    Do you have a response to my point? You claim that there are bigger problems than these - I'm telling you there are ALWAYS bigger problems. So why do YOU get to draw the line on which problems are worth focusing on and which ones aren't?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 11:56am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Yes, I have a problem with that. You are claiming that YOU get to decide how far is not far enough, and how far is the correct amount. Why?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 11:57am

    Re: Re: Re: the process

    Wow - clearly I have offended you. Not really sure why. Do you not understand what I'm saying about the logical ends of your line of reasoning? Why do you get to decide how far is far enough, and how far isn't?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:08pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    The momentum is being used in a variety of areas. We have groups working to rewrite copyright laws to be saner and more inline with the Constitution and reality. We have groups trying to fight ACTA and the TPP. We have groups that are trying to out all the pro-SOPA, pro-NDAA politicians in office. We have groups trying to get reasonable exemptions applied to the DMCA. Just because we have one article today talking about one of these issues does not mean that the rest are being ignored.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:11pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Ahhh Marcus, Marcus, Marcus. I offered MY OPINION.

    I'm telling you there are ALWAYS bigger problems. - Well thank you captain obvious. I didn't know that. /s

    It is MY OPINION that much more can/should be done. All they are doing is fueling the freetard fire for the industry to say see, all they want is to copy our stuff. Now if we were going after the process, it gives the appearance of having a righteous cause, and it is. I believe copyright is out of hand as well and it appears to me that, all they want is to copy our stuff is the case, and I know better. Imagine those who dont, and how the industry will spin this.

    So Mr. Carab, do you believe that going after the effect is better than stopping the cause? Subject does not matter.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:13pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Yes, subject does matter. I believe that, in a complicated system like a government, you need to push for change on many levels at many different scales at once. Are you claiming you can boil all problems down to a single root cause? That's impossible in a system this complex.

    There are lots of people out there who say "the government is corrupt and nothing can be solved until it's disbanded entirely". In their minds, government is beyond repair, so pushing for any kind of change is pointless. That's what I see as the logical conclusion of your line of reasoning - and I'm afraid I'm not on board with that.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:18pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Really, put quite simply, I believe that the right to remix and to jailbreak are very important. No, the specific need of having a jailbroken iPhone is not important in the "grand scheme" of things - but the underlying philosophies (you own a device you have bought and can do with it as you please; anti-circumvention laws do not override fair use; etc.) are ESSENTIAL to fixing copyright. So I'm sorry, I just don't agree that this effort is a waste of time.

    And so far you haven't really offered any reason why it is - you are just mocking it as a trivial issue as if that goes without saying. Well, it doesn't.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:23pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    I am flattered you think I have such influence by posting here on TD. I offered my suggestion/opinion, and how/where I FEEL they should go. You disagree with it? Im ok with that.

    So, Marcus, is it your position that going after the Mix/jail is more important than the process?

    "You are claiming that YOU get to decide how far is not far enough, and how far is the correct amount." - Whew, man, can I have some of what you are smoking? Must be some Cali killer. See the whole suggestion/opinion thing.

    So after going back through my posts I have come to the conclusion that Marcus Carab is out of his fucking mind. You inject a lot of assumptions that quite frankly I cant figure out where it comes from other than a drug induced haze. It has troll written all over it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:27pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Relax, man. You are clearly way too angry to have a rational discussion here. Maybe you never got over our disagreement on vaccinations, or something? I'm not sure. But look, I'm saying I fundamentally disagree with the idea that this is a waste of time - I'm sorry that offends you so much. I've tried to give you pretty clear reasons as to why I think your reasoning is incorrect, by taking it past what you said into what I feel are its inevitable conclusions - but you apparently interpret that as me putting words in your mouth. That's not what I'm doing or trying to do. I'm just exploring your line of reasoning and explaining why I think it's flawed. There's really no need to get this upset about it...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:30pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    is it your position that going after the Mix/jail is more important than the process?

    No, I don't. But I also don't think that means the people behind this initiative are sheep and spoiled kids, or that we should just ignore mix/jail because their are bigger issues - which is the line you have been pushing from the very beginning in this thread. It's funny that you call me a troll when you kicked this thread off with two rage-filled comments full of insults and exclamation points.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    It seems we are fractured and EFF is a central point of contact and I believe, it is my opinion, I feel, just to make that clear, that we could do much more productive effective things by taking it up a notch. And all of it boils back down to the process in which these things get passed. Stop that, and the effects will vanish.

    Gee my basement is flooded, lemme just get a sub pump. Call a plumber to actually fix the leak? Nah.

    Thanks you Mr. Knight.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Thank. ERR.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:35pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    So what you are saying is that those behind the anti-SOP/PIPA protests are completely incapable of focusing on more than one thing at a time?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:42pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Gee my basement is flooded, lemme just get a sub pump. Call a plumber to actually fix the leak? Nah.

    No, it's more like your basement flooded and a friend showed up with a sub pump to help minimize the damage, and you said "fuck you, you spoiled idiot! what the hell are you bringing me a sub pump for? don't you realize that's not the cause of the problem? bring me a plumber or piss off"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:44pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    "Not really sure why." Really? You must not be as smart as you think then.

    "Why do you get to decide how far is far enough, and how far isn't?"
    I'm sure I answered this elsewhere, but I have a couple, so I will address it again. I don't, Period. I don't see where I gave you the impression that I did. What i suggested were my OPINIONS & SUGGESTIONS. That is all. You took off on a tangent with assumptions and accusations that would make the best trolls on here envious.

    "Why do you get to decide how far is far enough, and how far isn't?" As a member of this Republic I have a right to speak my mind and offer my opinion and feelings, and you have the right to disagree.

    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 10:27am
    Some people are naturally abrasive and may not realize the way they word things, but I dont think Marcus falls in that category. He knows exactly the way he crafts his words.
    "clearly I have offended you. Not really sure why." Sell it to someone else Marcus.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:47pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Some people are naturally abrasive and may not realize the way they word things

    Is that your excuse for the two incredibly childish and angry comments you opened this debate with?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:50pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    "I believe that the right to remix.. (is) very important. "

    Of you course you do. Your entire low grade musical career depends on it. You can't actually play the music yourself, you can't be original, you depend on other people's work and try to act like it is your own.

    It's nice to see someone else has spotted you for the asshole you are.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:51pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    I have a musical career?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:54pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    ...and where exactly would your talentless musical career be if there wan't other people's work to sample from? You might actually have to learn to play music and do it yourself. That would be a crime, that is for sure.

    You just want to take everyone else's rights away to satisfy your need to show your lack of talent. Grow some balls, get some talent, and play the music yourself.

    EFF is nothing more at this point than an opportunistic bunch, playing to the whining masses. They lost their way, probably back when guys like Larry Lessig took over. It's no longer about freedom in any meaningful sense, more of a land grab.

    Lessig is still probably butt hurt from having the courts toss his first amendment ideas out the windows.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 12:57pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I thought you were leaving the site forever? Just can't stay away, huh? I guess you derive a lot of self-worth from insulting me, or something...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Its not trivial, its just a game of whack-a-mole without addressing the underlying issue. You do see that?
    Hypothetical:
    We get the laws changed to allow non-profit use of everything. Then there will be back room deal to chip away at that little by little, on top of all the other back deals to continue to erode our freedoms. Cat and mouse. Whereas if we address the issue of closed proceedings, pay for legislation, and the lobbying efforts that border on (to be nice) bribery, nothing will change. It will be the same old same old, and I have been watching this kind of crap for far too long now. I see an opportunity slipping away. Why? [Looking at this from the outside] Because those damn Internets just want to be able to copy our stuff. You know they will be saying that.(Not word for word, but close)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:11pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    So go work on it, then.

    I've realized that this is even simpler than I thought: you are being the worst kind of counterproductive person.

    Here are people who are DOING SOMETHING. They have identified a problem, and they believe they can solve it. So they're trying to. And your only response is to criticize them - calling them sheep, in fact! - for not doing enough?

    That's a very counterproductive attitude. I'd go as far as to say a childish attitude. "Why bother doing something productive? It's not going to solve every problem."

    That's like people who say "why bother turning off the lights when I leave home? big corporations are the ones doing the most damage to the environment"

    Change is not a zero-sum game.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:17pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Incidentally, had you simply said at the beginning that you feel there are even bigger problems we could be tackling, I wouldn't have batted an eyelid. It was your insistence on belittling the people behind this initiative that I found astonishingly wrongheaded. But you seem to have dropped that now - and if so, we really aren't in disagreement. Next time, think before you start yelling "bhaaaa bhaaa!" at people who are contributing a lot more than you are.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:17pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    "Maybe you never got over our disagreement on vaccinations" Long done. No worries.

    You just come off as a snarky asshole really.
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120124/03263517521/infographic-showing-just-how-frequent ly-hollywood-has-cried-wolf-about-piracy.shtml#c325
    It may not be your fault, we all have personality flaws to overcome, but I dont believe that to be so. Ive read some of your other things and as I said before, you craft you words carefully. You know exactly how you write it.

    "You are clearly way too angry to have a rational discussion here." Not angry. Where did you get that? I just plain dont like you. No mystery there.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:21pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    "what you are saying" WTF? You and Marcus doing bong hits together today? Please explain to me where you got that from this:
    It seems we are fractured and EFF is a central point of contact and I believe, it is my opinion, I feel, just to make that clear, that we could do much more productive effective things by taking it up a notch. And all of it boils back down to the process in which these things get passed. Stop that, and the effects will vanish.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:24pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Not angry. Where did you get that?

    Lol. Yeah, wow, I have no IDEA where I got such a crazy idea:

    weneedhelp - Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:23am
    Unbelievable. Not even noon and my blood is boiling. ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!


    Done with this. You're being a child. "Why bother trying to do good? Everything just sucks anyway." Have fun moping.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:29pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    "with two rage-filled comments full of insults and exclamation points." TROLLS BEWARE WE HAVE A NEW CONTENDER.


    Comment1)
    All the fucked up shit that is going on; jail-breaking and mix tapes are the target? Really? REALLY!!!!

    Bhaaaa bhaaaa bhaaa. We deserve what we get.
    Comment2)
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:23am
    Its flippin sad that the process that brought us SOPA/PIPA and all the other crap is just being ignored. But as long as the sheep can crack their phones and game consoles its ok. Unbelievable. Not even noon and my blood is boiling. ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!

    Rage filled? full of insults? and 8 !'s. Yeah ok marcus. Put the pipe down, its rotting your brain. Seriously man quit the shit it will kill ya.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Exactly! Except the expletives to make your sorry point. Its more like:

    wow thanks man it will help greatly, but you know, what I really need is a plumber to stop the flow of water; can you help me, or do you know others that will?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:36pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Well then Marcus, if that is the way you interpreted it, then yes. I AM abrasive, I do not deny it, and clearly realize it. I can absolutely be an asshole sometimes. What about it? Whats your excuse?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:50pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Do you know the first thing the plumber will do when he gets to your flooding basement is? He will pull out his sump pump and start draining the basement in order to get to the leak. So what is your point again?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:51pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Or it could be that these types of efforts are merely the smoke screen to distract the corrupted while we prepare are targeted laser strike.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 1:59pm

    Re: Re: the process

    "So you'd rather the rights to use your own property as you wish and to reuse materials that you have been"

    No Paul, I would rather fix the system so that future legislation is open and honest to the point where the people can see exactly what the Congress critters are trying to pull so that this kind of crap does not happen again.

    It appears that that point of view today gets bashed.

    If I didn't know better, it would appear that as long as your fighting for the right to copy and remix thats ok, but mention that you would like to see a more concentrated effort to stop the root cause and all of a sudden I am a pariah. Its OK though, I can take it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 2:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    If you think that. I started out my working career working for a master plumber and the first thing we would do is... are you ready... turn off the water at the curb.
    WE WOULD STOP THE ROOT CAUSE.



    So 10 fail points for you Mr. Knight. Thanks for playing.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 2:20pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    "It was your insistence on belittling the people behind this initiative that I found astonishingly wrongheaded."
    Um. "belittling the people behind this" Dude you read waaaaayyyyy too much into things. LSD, MDNA maybe?

    "All the fucked up shit that is going on; jail-breaking and mix tapes are the target? Really? REALLY!!!!

    Bhaaaa bhaaaa bhaaa. We deserve what we get."

    Its flippin sad that the process that brought us SOPA/PIPA and all the other crap is just being ignored. But as long as the sheep can crack their phones and game consoles its ok. Unbelievable. Not even noon and my blood is boiling. ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!

    I think, Mr. Carab, you had a reading comprehension fail.
    "It was your insistence on belittling the people behind this initiative that I found astonishingly wrongheaded." With the exception of the sheep thing, and do you deny most Americans have the sheep mentality, if so go to an all night wallmart and look around, the only one i belittled... was... YOU, and I am rally not sorry about that. Almost time for me to go. You have a great night Marcus.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 2:26pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    "targeted laser strike." Back away from the computer, go outside, and get a breath of fresh air cuz you're just off the wall now.


    Most normal PPL will just say YOUR A CONSPIRACY THEORIST and run away. Please do so next time it will be easier for you, and much easier to see.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 2:31pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "self-worth from insulting me, or something..."

    See see, I'm not the only one. LOL.

    (You can take a lighthearted joke right?)
    God I hope so.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 6:37pm

    Re:

    >Your rights are restricted by those who abuse them.

    Works both ways. Abuse the DMCA, demand for copyright extensions, sue kids and grandmothers and printers and dead people, and don't be surprised when people refuse to respect copyright. So sorry, until you can stop the greed on behalf of the industries, you cannot change the laws.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    icon
    btrussell (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 7:46pm

    Wow!

    Some energy got channeled here on this topic alright.

    How about we shoot for the stars and settle for the moon?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:21pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    ...Ok. I will be backing out now. You obviously missed my point.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:22pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Sorry. Didn't know you were an apprentice to a master plumber. I will try to remember that nxt time we get into a plumbing metaphor. Still, you missed my point.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:29pm

    I see this process as a travesty.
    We should let everything be outlawed and let the people feel the pain so they understand what copyright really is.

    It is excluding everyone from doing what was, is and always will be normal everyday things.

    We should have some pride and negate that process, we should need to beg for scraps, we should have those freedoms not as exceptions but as the foundation of our society, participating on those things is like acquiescing to the validity of those views.

    What I want is to the industry to go apeshit about it and sue everyone, so people really understand what they are facing it is not the welfare of artists is the control of your freedom at stake here.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    A land grab like granting a monopoly and exclusionary powers for life + 95 years?

    Oh that is a land grab alright, even more so when it a monopoly starts to threaten the foundations of democracy eroding free speech rights and causing censorship to be seen as an acceptable consequence of doing business.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:37pm

    Re:

    As opposed to the little children that populate the record industry that can't control themselves when granted absurdly long term monopolies that are used for censoring not only the internet but others forms of speech and anti-competitive market acts against competitors?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2012 @ 9:45pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You two are funny.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    icon
    Ninja (profile), Feb 2nd, 2012 @ 4:14am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Dude... Fail. Think about it a bit: protecting the right of a kid to jailbreak reaches as far as protecting YOUR freedom. If a corporation can dictate what you do with your property what kind of freedom is this? It's not just about the kid jailbreaking the game console, it's about his RIGHT to do so. It's not about protecting the right of a kid to remain anonymous and play pranks with a pseudonym online, it's about the RIGHT for anonymity for any1, from the kid to the Arab Spring protesters.

    Marcus is criticizing yous incredibly bad myopia on this. You can't fix the car if you don't disassemble the parts and deal with the small pieces that are broken. You may change the entire engine but it won't run if you don't fix the small fuse that is burnt or the few degrees that went misaligned in one of the wheels. Granted these small degrees are not nearly as bad as a broken engine but they will prevent you from running in the long run. Open your eyes, protecting the jailbreak kid is protecting yourself.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85.  
    icon
    Ninja (profile), Feb 2nd, 2012 @ 4:31am

    Re: Re: Re: the process

    I would rather fix the system so that future legislation is open and honest

    Good, we have all sorts of ppl trying to do that. While we are at it, small fixes will do too. EFF can't embrace the world. The system won't be changed overnight with a single action, it's the work of several little ants like EFF (and you and me) that will slowly change everything. The fastest path for failure is trying to do everything.

    EFF is doing it right.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86.  
    icon
    Ninja (profile), Feb 2nd, 2012 @ 4:41am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Now Marcus is a musician. That's gold (but no I don't want to listen to THAT, sorry Marcus).

    Aren't you posting in the wrong comment section? Shouldn't you be posting in your colorful dreamland? Your trolling might make sense there =)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    icon
    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 3rd, 2012 @ 2:14pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the process

    Still, you missed my point. - Or did you miss mine as well?

    Plumbing or as in anything. I am a tech now and when a virus outbreak happens, the first course of action is to find the machine that is propagating it and shut it down, then clean up the mess.

    All I was saying here was to address the root cause rather than band-aid the effect.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Save me a cookie
  • Note: A CRLF will be replaced by a break tag (<br>), all other allowable HTML will remain intact
  • Allowed HTML Tags: <b> <i> <a> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <hr> <tt>
Follow Techdirt
A word from our sponsors...
Essential Reading
Techdirt Reading List
Techdirt Insider Chat
A word from our sponsors...
Recent Stories
A word from our sponsors...

Close

Email This