Which Is Worse, SOPA Or PIPA? Answer: Both!
from the a-disaster-all-around dept
The PROTECT IP (PIPA) bill was introduced in the Senate last May. Over the summer, opposition to it continued to grow — well respected venture capitalists, top legal scholars and entrepreneurs all came out against the bill. Even the NY Times and LA Times both ran editorials against PIPA.
Then, in October, SOPA was introduced in the House, and it was much worse than PIPA, leading to much greater public outcry, as the momentum against this kind of bill grew. This resulted in a “manager’s amendment” to SOPA, which makes it more like PIPA.
Not surprisingly, the Senate is poised to try to move forward with PIPA as soon as possible (January 24th). The folks behind this bill have done all of this quite strategically. They knew that there was growing opposition to PIPA, and while an original version of SOPA, by Rep. Bob Goodlatte, was going to try to fix some of the problems with the bill, Rep. Lamar Smith was pressured to take control over the bill (which he did) and made it much, much worse. The thinking here among the lobbyists was that if he made it much worse, and then backed down to PIPA-levels, that already dreadful bill would be seen as a “compromise.”
And, it appears that some in the press are really falling for it. The Washington Post recently ran an editorial claiming that PIPA was a “better thought-out and more prudent approach.” That’s simply not true. It’s a different approach, but it’s neither better thought out, nor prudent.
Sherwin Siy has an excellent blog post in which he discusses which bill is worse by noting that the answer is basically both of them. Both bills are bad and both bills have problems. Some of the problems overlap… and some don’t. But both are scary bills:
Is PIPA worse?
PIPA features a particularly expansive definition of what constitutes a “site dedicated to infringing activities,” which can include merely “enabling or facilitating” infringement. How broad this is is uncertain?is merely providing hosting to an infringer enabling infringement? What about indexing links to an infringing site? This is the sort of language that can easily reach too far?we’ve seen lawsuits and premised on some pretty thin ice so far.
Another huge hole in PIPA is that it allows court orders to issue against any “information location tools” as defined in the DMCA. That sounds a lot like the search engine-directed provisions in SOPA, but the DMCA defines “information location tools” very broadly?to the point where it could easily encompass a simple link. This could subject nearly the whole web to court orders issued through PIPA.
Is SOPA worse?
Even after the manager’s amendment, SOPA retains a lot of excesses, pulling in a lot of other types of issues into one big bill?like also including the complexities of trade secret violations, and expanding criminal penalties for streaming (which certainly seemed to upset Justin Bieber, at least).
It also grants blanket immunity to a much wider range of entities who voluntarily decide to cut of suspected infringers. While PIPA restricts immunity to ad networks and payment processors, SOPA adds to this list any ISP, registry, registrar, search engine, bank, or even any advertiser. This puts a large number of potentially powerful intermediaries in an even more powerful position. If Comcast decides it’s tired of, say, YouTube.ca taking bandwidth and audience away from cable programming, it can argue that YouTube is “dedicated to infringing activities” and not face any consequences under net neutrality or competition laws. If Google gets upset that eBay.co.uk isn’t playing ball with Google Shopping and decides to delist it, it’s got a plausible way to escape any lawsuits (to say nothing of unwanted attention from the FTC or the DoJ) for acting anticompetitively.
So to ask whether SOPA is better than PIPA, or vice versa, is a question without a clear answer?a comparison of rotten apples to rotten oranges. They’re different enough to defy an up-or-down value comparison, though at base they are similar enough, and similarly bad.
The fact is that both bills are effectively the same thing, with differences at the margin, neither of which is good. Congress and some lobbyists bet the farm on the idea that starting off with a worse bill would allow a bogus “compromise” allowing them to get what they wanted. What I don’t think they expected is just how much these bills would get attention and wake up internet users. For now, the strategy by Lamar Smith is to pretend that this opposition isn’t real. There’s about a month or so left to prove to him that he’s wrong — and it includes making sure that neither SOPA nor PIPA can possibly pass.
Filed Under: copyright, pipa, problems, protect ip, sopa
Comments on “Which Is Worse, SOPA Or PIPA? Answer: Both!”
Hammer, Meet Thumb
When both pieces of “legislation” suck, the obvious choice is to write good legislation. This should not be a difficult concept for congress to understand. I know its hard to learn how to type, but thankfully they have underlings for that (who obviously know how to use the copy and paste shortcuts).
Re: Hammer, Meet Thumb
The obvious choice is to just drop this legislation. We need to fix copyright for the information age. We do not need another level of obfuscation on top of an already broken system with 100 years of conflicting legal patches.
Re: Re: Hammer, Meet Thumb
Ah, a succinct summation of our entire legal system…
Re: Re: Re: Hammer, Meet Thumb
I agree completely. I would like to see our justice system razed down to the foundation. Take the constitution, bill of rights, etc and rebuild something that makes sense. Make the punishment fit the crime, make it comparable across crimes, and get rid of much of the laws that make nearly all of us criminals in some way. If God only needed 10 commandments, surely we can get by with a few hundred?
Re: Hammer, Meet Thumb
Obvious Choice: Pass both!
Re: Hammer, Meet Thumb
When something doesn’t need further legislation then don’t right laws for it at all. This is a VERY difficult concept for most Governments to understand.
Are you legislating or or doing some sort of tutelage/oppression?
This is the sort of language that can easily reach too far?we’ve seen lawsuits and premised on some pretty thin ice so far.
Based on the domain name seizures, shouldn’t that read: “…premised on some pretty thin ICE so far.”?
Re: Re:
Looks like the PIPA bill…
*puts on glasses*
Is on thin ICE.
Re: Re: Re:
YYAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
this is definitely the whole idea behind SOPA. making it intentionally so much worse people would accept the lesser version, ie, PIPA. although this strategy has been used before with a modicum of success, surely it’s not going to work in this case, is it? are people really so gullible? so thick? i appreciate the ‘bought and paid for politicians and journalists etc’ may do, but not the thinking public.
Re: Re:
Homeland Security, and the TSA. ’nuff said.
Re: Bow to your masters.
It doesn’t matter what the people want–it’s not like the Congress or the Senate work for the people.
Re: Re:
but not the thinking public.
I’m sorry, who?
I fear that the only real way to stop these bills from passing would be to blow up the capitol building. With Congress inside.
“That still leaves 2 out of 3 branches of the government working for you, and that ain’t bad!” – US President (Jack Nicholson) in Mars Attacks!
Re: Re:
No one ever went broke banking on stupidity.
Re: Re:
SOPA/PIPA = WAR
1.Patriot Act
2.Is Waterboarding torture ?
3.spying on us US Citizens
4.Corproations are People
6.The new Defense Act
7.SOPA/PIPA should be the last straw
2012 should be the Apocalypse for the Cancer that is Washington.I truly hate this Government and am waiting for a Million Man March on Washington.I will be there and hope millions also will too.
Re: Re: Re:
They would probably nuke you and blame it on Iran…
Question. Would the MPAA and the RIAA still be able to function if their respective headquarters were destroyed?
Re: Re:
The MPAA and RIAA are umbrella organizations that hide other companies under it.
So no, it wouldn’t stop it, you need to destroy the companies under it.
Re: Re:
We don’t want them dead, just forced to recognize that our freedom is more important than their profits. Making them martyrs and us terrorists won’t do anyone any good.
If Comcast decides it’s tired of, say, YouTube.ca taking bandwidth and audience away from cable programming, it can argue that YouTube is “dedicated to infringing activities” and not face any consequences under net neutrality or competition laws. If Google gets upset that eBay.co.uk isn’t playing ball with Google Shopping and decides to delist it, it’s got a plausible way to escape any lawsuits (to say nothing of unwanted attention from the FTC or the DoJ) for acting anticompetitively.
The new version of SOPA Manager’s amendment) explicitly applies only to foreign domain names, not U.S. domain names. Even foreign versions of American companies? websites would not be covered because they do not meet the bill?s requirement that the site be ?U.S.-directed.? Sites like Youtube.ca and eBay.co.uk were created precisely to be directed at non-U.S. countries.
Not surprising that the professional piracy apologists go Public Knowledge have the same low regard for the truth as Techdirt.
Re: Re:
Then it’s completely toothless; can you name ANY site that’s not on a US domain name that could be called “U.S.-directed”?
“Oh, I’m sorry, ParamountMoviesForFree.jp was created precisely to be directed at Asian markets, not the US…”
Re: Re:
Except nobody knows what qualifies as “foreign domain name”, facebook.cn qualifies? twitter.uk?
I’m taking those out of thin air but I do know that most websites have dozens of domains registered in their biggest markets all over the world so do they qualify as foreign websites?
Re: Re:
There is no such thing as a foreign domain name because ICANN is regulated by the US government. This is how they were able to get away with taking Spanish domains offline even though they were not US-directed and, at the time, violated no Spanish laws. Any US law that affects the Internet affects the entire world, regardless of the laws of other countries, because of this. So yes, Youtube.ca and eBay.co.uk will be affected, regardless of whether they’re “US-directed”.
Re: Re: Re:
That’s a lie. A .com, .net, .org is a US registered site. A .bz is registered in Belize. The former are not subject to SOPA. The latter is but only to the extent that a .bz site directs its marketing to US consumers.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
If that’s true, then it renders SOPA moot as far as addressing pirate sites goes. They’ll just register a .com and be immune.
So what’s the point of this law again?
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
The point of the law is that you’re a fucking idiot.
Pirate sites are illegal in the US; that’s why they’ve all fled to overseas domains. And that’s why there’s SOPA.
If they registered as a .com, US courts would already have the power to go after them.
Oh and btw, you’re a fucking idiot.
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
So why hasn’t the US gone after thepiratebay.org?
Re: Re: Re:3 Re:
Ah, right, and that’s why there are no .com pirate sites.
/sarc
Re: Re: Re: Re:
So thepiratebay.org will not be subject to SOPA. Thanks for letting us know. If TPB is blocked as a result of SOPA, we’ll know who has “the same low regard for the truth”.
Re: Re:
The new version of SOPA Manager’s amendment) explicitly applies only to foreign domain names, not U.S. domain names.
Actually your holy saint Larmar Smith soundly rejected an amendment that would have spelled this out explicitly. It is currently in a list with an or, which means that it is not explicit or definitive.
Re: Re:
The new version of SOPA Manager’s amendment) explicitly applies only to foreign domain names, not U.S. domain names.
One question I have never seen brought up is why are we being so gung ho on destroying foreign websites in the first place?
Based on the main stream media reports I usually see once a week or so, we need to bail out Greece or Italy or some other country because the impact on the global economy will negatively affect our stock market and my retirement accounts.
If this is true and we are migrating to a truly global economy, shouldn’t we be trying to bolster these foreign economies, instead of trying to implement isolationist policy?
Re: Re: Re:
A rising tide floats all boats.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Which is exactly why we need SOPA, to sink the pirates!
Re: Re: Re:2 Re:
I assume you are joking as surely you know the pirates have never been stopped and never will be stopped.
The good news is that any blogger can now claim copyright nfringement when a FOX News copy their content or link to it, any musician that copy and paste anything on Twitter, Facebook can be a thief and movies will have to settle their lawsuits before they can be available anywhere.
That lady that wrote the Harry Porter, may find herself cut out of financial institutions until she can prove she didn’t stole anything from anybody.
Comedians may be out of a job, Homages may become to risky.
Avatar would never sell, until the lawsuits are settled or risk others cutting the funding for them and the people involved.
One thing is missing from the bills though is the ability to pierce the LLC companies where most of pirates hide behind.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/01/cowboys-and-aliens-lawsuit-copyright-infringement-comic-book/
Can that writer make Steven Spilberg a thief and get everybody to drop him on the internet?
This was exactly my point in my comment on another post today
Now that the ball is rolling, they will feel like something has to be passed when in fact absolutely nothing needs to be passed. The market is going to figure out for the content industry and eventually force them to adapt. So the attempt at massive legislation is a win-win for the gatekeepers in their eyes. If it gets through they will effectively have an internet kill switch. If it gets watered down somewhat then they still get something through.
In the end it will be bad for everyone, including the gatekeepers.
Re: This was exactly my point in my comment on another post today
Well, the “market’s idea” (aka, getting stuff for free illegally with no consequence) isn’t fair to the people making content. One of the stupidest things creative people did was allowing their product to be taken for free illegally with absolutely NO consequences…because now people don’t actually value their work anymore. But they sure do love consuming it! It’s quite easy for people to justify getting stuff for free when they aren’t an artist who can’t get investors since they know the sales aren’t gonna be there…
Not to say SOPA is actually gonna solve any of these problems, (and that’s if it gets passed…which it WON’T. so this blog’s writers REALLY need to stop being drama queens) but there needs to be SOME consequence if the government actually gives a shit about combating piracy. Because the ONLY reason people dl is because they know they can get away with it…if you add a consequence, I’m willing to bet less people would do it! Especially if it were a small enough fine+retail, instead of the “lol you will get X years in jail and 250k in fines for illegally copying this” warning in movies, since people probably just assume the large number is there just to scare you away from doing it instead of being an actual fine.
Re: Re: This was exactly my point in my comment on another post today
The majority of pirates go and buy things they recently pirated, if they liked them. The few that absolutely refuse to not-pirate things (those ones that say crazy things like “LOL stupid companies ! pirate life 4eva !”) are the Vocal Minority. Invoking the Humans are Bastards argument doesn’t work.
Besides, the entertainment industries are making much more money than before, despite their claims they’re losing.
If you add a consequence to copyright infringement, how do you prove who deserves that consequence? If there was a consequence to it, normal people would be harmed and pirates would be unharmed.
Now you have two problems...
I’m guessing PIPA is a “better thought-out and more prudent approach” than SOPA in the way that rape is more pleasant and more endearing than gang-rape.
It’s called the middle ground fallacy.
I don’t want to ‘compromise’ social welfare for corporate profits. There should be no compromise, the govt should act in the public interest.
Let's not forget...
ACTA, the export and internationalization of our gov’t’s absurd mindset 😉
Which is *WORSE*?
The question was not “Which is bad?” but rather “Which is worse?” The answer is that SOPA is worse, meaning that PIPA is the lesser of the two evils. It is still a great evil in its own right, but it is not as bad as SOPA.
Re: Which is *WORSE*?
But considering how bad Both are, neither should be passed, even if one isn’t ‘as bad’.
It’s like loosing one person to a house-fire vs. an entire family to a house-fire; while yes, technically the first ‘isn’t as bad’, both are still horrendous.
Which is worse...
Which is worse… beheaded or shocked to death. Doesn’t really matter… the end result is the same, as it is with both of these bills.
The political system today is a failure. We are on the verge of collapse under the weight of TRILLIONS of dolloars of debt and we show no signs of stopping.
We are like a junkie. We can’t help but spend… the more we spend the better we feel… we NEED to spend… MUST spend… do anything to spend. Forget the consequences…
And the sad thing is, even as the politicians drive us deeper into debt nationally and individually… they line their own pockets with blood money from large corporations.
A question of equal evil
Both of these proposed laws are intrinsically bad-they prove that Congress does not understand the first thing about what they’re supposedly regulating, for whom and why.
Let’s get rid of Congress and then we can work our way back to sanity.
“We’re from the government and we’re here to help you.”
RIAA and MPAA both believe this.
We know better.
The only part i will accept is zero copyright and the death of all RIAA , MPAA, PRS, PPL etc etc.
pipa and sopa bill
If you truly wanted to stopped pipa and sopa bill then why not use the Gandhi way. In order to protest the British occupation in India, he urged all of the Indian citizen to toss all the British product. And all the Indian give all ears and do it. The result is very devastating for the British so they must negotiate again. Now you the people has all the vote that needed by the senators and congressmen as well as your money for the corporations that supported both bills. If only all of you stopped to spend money on those big corporation that support pipa and sopa bill and vote out every single senators and congressmen in the entire USA, then you can win. Last but not the least vote all of your voice especially the Republican party give all of your vote for the presidential candidate that fight against this bill from the very first place which is so far as I can see is only Ron Paul.
sopa and pipa bill
This bill shall not only effect to those who make a living in the US but also the whole world since the very backbone of the internet living in the US. What the lawmaker in the US never considered was this:
1. These law shall never stopped the piracy, why, here’s my own research on how they do it based on a few internet opinion and my own analysis:
a. Those who did that will use a small handy cam and record the movie in the cinema then do some tweak in their computer and finally sell it either online or offline. It doesn’t matter. I had this idea on how the piracy movie was made when I saw a notes in the cinema that said you must not bring any camera at all yet there’s no scrutinize search at all for all the viewer. Other method, my guess was waiting the original DVD to be released then ripping and burn it with their legal software, then the pirate will not hesitantly sold it with or without this law comes to affect. What this law can do merely hurt the freedom in the internet. So yes this bill should be killed on the first place.
b, Hardware tools piracy can be made by either industrial spies or reverse engineering and there’s nothing you can do about should they done it outside the US soil. Whenever you sold your car, industrial tech etc those can be done with both I had mentioned about.
c. This law shall also destroy the only protection of the journalists, whistle blowers have especially on the rogue nation, since these law prevent TOR and many other privacy software that protected them in use. As for me my self the software that I had mentioned on this section will allowed me to reach censored sites that my country made. Well I love when the internet and the information should be free. It always depend on the man behind this information to do about it. I believe about freedom, well the only true freedom and democracy left in the world is behind the net. And 99% people who love their freedom shall do it on the good deeds not the other way around. This can be proven when the anonymous hacker attacked the TOR network in order to detain the child pornographic abuse on the hidden service of TOR.
d. What can be done to prevent the piracy is to make the movie and many other application made in the US so much more competitive rather making this net killing regulation. One way to do that is to allowed the free and open source programs running and distributed. Using the proprietaries one shall increase the cost of production dramatically and the other way was to make the taxes on the movie maker and every business in USA lower and lower.
e.These laws should it come to effect shall also can make the open source software in danger. A man like me who has nothing when wanted to make an honest business legally shall rely on the open source and free software and I do believed that so many men out there on the US soil fell the same way as I do. Therefore should this law shall effect not only the freedom of speech, but it also will cost the US economy dearly for this will make a lot of small business not only in US but also abroad like I would like to do it online under jeopardize since the big company can use those laws against us the small business or who just started the business without nothing but merely ideas like my self
2.The US is the leader of the free country, now wouldn’t it will make US a laughing stocks of the nations should these laws be done. While your country frees all other nations under totalitarian regime, yours started your own. Beside in order to freed other nations like China into democracy, you needed to helped all the freedom fighter in China who living under the Great Firewall. And the only way to do this is with the openness in the net.
3. How to prevent this; why not make a million or 10 millions movement in the Google, Facebook, etc to prevent these bills to become laws. only big guys like the owner of Google, Yahoo, Facebook etc who can make this happened and rallied on the street in the Washington DC. This matter is not about liberals, conservatives or libertarian but this matter to all of us who love the freedom. I shall do this.
4. This is the election session, so geared up and told everyone that sit on the throne in both houses senate and congress to uphold the people freedom or they shall be ousted in the next election.
And for Republican especially the right winger should they wanted to replace Obama, then they should kill these bills on this election season. And for Obama, if he wanted to take his second term, he wouldn’t have to wait too long with painful campaign. All he got to do is kill these bills and emerge himself as the champion of the US First Amendment. And the rest of the US shall lines behind him and fires their anger to all the GOP presidential candidates except Ron Paul. The calls now run on the GOP House, will or will not they kill this bill before being veto by Obama and either GOP house embrace the OPEN act by Darrell Issa. Please be wise to chose for both parties. The victory and losses lies on one small decision here.
sopa and pipa bill
This bill shall not only effect to those who make a living in the US but also the whole world since the very backbone of the internet living in the US. What the lawmaker in the US never considered was this:
1. These law shall never stopped the piracy, why, here’s my own research on how they do it based on a few internet opinion and my own analysis:
a. Those who did that will use a small handy cam and record the movie in the cinema then do some tweak in their computer and finally sell it either online or offline. It doesn’t matter. I had this idea on how the piracy movie was made when I saw a notes in the cinema that said you must not bring any camera at all yet there’s no scrutinize search at all for all the viewer. Other method, my guess was waiting the original DVD to be released then ripping and burn it with their legal software, then the pirate will not hesitantly sold it with or without this law comes to affect. What this law can do merely hurt the freedom in the internet. So yes this bill should be killed on the first place.
b, Hardware tools piracy can be made by either industrial spies or reverse engineering and there’s nothing you can do about should they done it outside the US soil. Whenever you sold your car, industrial tech etc those can be done with both I had mentioned about.
c. This law shall also destroy the only protection of the journalists, whistle blowers have especially on the rogue nation, since these law prevent TOR and many other privacy software that protected them in use. As for me my self the software that I had mentioned on this section will allowed me to reach censored sites that my country made. Well I love when the internet and the information should be free. It always depend on the man behind this information to do about it. I believe about freedom, well the only true freedom and democracy left in the world is behind the net. And 99% people who love their freedom shall do it on the good deeds not the other way around. This can be proven when the anonymous hacker attacked the TOR network in order to detain the child pornographic abuse on the hidden service of TOR.
d. What can be done to prevent the piracy is to make the movie and many other application made in the US so much more competitive rather making this net killing regulation. One way to do that is to allowed the free and open source programs running and distributed. Using the proprietaries one shall increase the cost of production dramatically and the other way was to make the taxes on the movie maker and every business in USA lower and lower.
e.These laws should it come to effect shall also can make the open source software in danger. A man like me who has nothing when wanted to make an honest business legally shall rely on the open source and free software and I do believed that so many men out there on the US soil fell the same way as I do. Therefore should this law shall effect not only the freedom of speech, but it also will cost the US economy dearly for this will make a lot of small business not only in US but also abroad like I would like to do it online under jeopardize since the big company can use those laws against us the small business or who just started the business without nothing but merely ideas like my self
2.The US is the leader of the free country, now wouldn’t it will make US a laughing stocks of the nations should these laws be done. While your country frees all other nations under totalitarian regime, yours started your own. Beside in order to freed other nations like China into democracy, you needed to helped all the freedom fighter in China who living under the Great Firewall. And the only way to do this is with the openness in the net.
3. How to prevent this; why not make a million or 10 millions movement in the Google, Facebook, etc to prevent these bills to become laws. only big guys like the owner of Google, Yahoo, Facebook etc who can make this happened and rallied on the street in the Washington DC. This matter is not about liberals, conservatives or libertarian but this matter to all of us who love the freedom. I shall do this.
4. This is the election session, so geared up and told everyone that sit on the throne in both houses senate and congress to uphold the people freedom or they shall be ousted in the next election.
And for Republican especially the right winger should they wanted to replace Obama, then they should kill these bills on this election season. And for Obama, if he wanted to take his second term, he wouldn’t have to wait too long with painful campaign. All he got to do is kill these bills and emerge himself as the champion of the US First Amendment. And the rest of the US shall lines behind him and fires their anger to all the GOP presidential candidates except Ron Paul. The calls now run on the GOP House, will or will not they kill this bill before being veto by Obama and either GOP house embrace the OPEN act by Darrell Issa. Please be wise to chose for both parties. The victory and losses lies on one small decision here.
HELP SAVE THE INTERNET!!!
This is just terrible….SOPA is the equivalent of curing a headache with a guillotine. It may stop piracy, but it would shut down our economy and unconstitutionally erode our most basic freedoms in the process.
I just hope that everyone realizes how important this is and does their part to save the internet & our economy! …here is another good video that explains the consequences of SOPA pretty well:
http://www.peeje.com/peeje-goes-strike-stop-web-censorship-bills-congress-209/
1,000s of more websites have joined the force and went dark today, we need EVERYONES help!!!!