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Techdirt 2011: The Numbers.

from the not-the-end-of-the-world-yet dept

Happy New Year everyone! Last year's "The Numbers" post proved to be quite popular, so we decided to do it again. 2011 was yet another banner year for Techdirt.

We handled around 14.7 million visits last year (up from 2009's 11M). Those visitors checked out the 3,923 stories that we posted and submitted 205,129 comments. Oddly, the #1 story for 2011 was one that was actually written in 2010, about the ubiquitous "Free Public WiFi" mystery. It turns out that a lot of people remain curious about all those "free public WiFi" ad hoc networks you see. Two stories about SOPA/PIPA graced the top ten, as well as the harrowing censorship tale of dajaz1.com. It appears that you folks are concerned about government censorship.

2011 was also a great year for the comment voting system. Congrats to Marcus Carab and Dark Helmet, who garnered the highest cumulative scores for insightful and funniest comments, respectively -- and, amazingly, each came in second place to the other in the category they didn't come in first. I sense a growing rivalry...

The top browser used by Techdirt readers was still Firefox (35%). Chrome, which lost by a narrow margin to IE last year, blew past IE's 15% to 30%. And there are still nearly 100,000 that are, despite all of the best efforts of Microsoft to convince you otherwise, still inexplicably using IE6.

Mobile usage jumped up to 1.6M visits this year, which is nearly a 200% increase from 2010. 615k of those visits came from iPhones, versus 566k for Android and 322k from iPad. In aggregate, Apple devices did beat Android. iPhone beat out Android last year by nearly 2:1, so clearly that gap is quickly closing.

Where did this year's traffic come from? Reddit jumped in the charts this year, referring 2.1M visits, up 277% from last year's 557k. I'm a little saddened to see that Slashdot is definitely not what it used to be -- referrals from them dropped by nearly a third last year. I suppose getting Slashdotted is no longer what it used to be. Continuing to perform quite well, however, are both StumbleUpon and HackerNews. Facebook also sent a decent amount of traffic.

To hear some of Google's enemies (including politicians in Congress) tell the story, the only way sites get traffic is via search engines -- and Google specifically. They act as though, if Google isn't sending you tons of traffic, you don't exist. Google definitely does send us a fair bit of traffic, but only about 20% of our actual traffic came from searches. We certainly value that 20%, but it definitely shows that you don't have to rely on search traffic to get traffic. Even more telling, here are the top three search terms that brought people to Techdirt in 2011:
  1. techdirt
  2. sopa
  3. tech dirt
Where are you all coming from? It's really not that different than in 2010. The vast majority of you are from the US. Canada is second, followed closely by the UK. After that, there's a pretty sharp drop off to Australia, then Germany, the Netherlands and Sweden. France, India and New Zealand round out the top 10. Last year, we noted that Japan narrowly beat out China to follow India as the leading Asian countries. This year (despite stories of how we're sometimes blocked in China), China jumped into second place in Asia, followed by South Korea, who leap-frogged Japan. Brazil was tops in South America and South Africa was tops in Africa -- same as in 2010.

All in all, people from 230 countries or territories visited Techdirt. Just like last year, there was a single visit from Christmas Island -- though, last year, we had someone in our comments suggest that the single Christmas Island visit may have been him, and not really from Christmas Island.

Last year, we noted that the only countries that we appeared to get absolutely no visits from were... North Korea, Western Sahara & Chad. Western Sahara and Chad, once again, failed to send any visitors... but, in a stunning development, we got two visitors from North Korea. And, in case you were wondering, Belarus, whose new laws will make it difficult for people there to access many websites, actually sent over 1,000 visitors last year. Also, I have no idea why, but the nearly 1,000 visitors from Gibraltar spent the highest average time on the site of visitors from any other country/territory -- averaging nearly 20 minutes per visit. People from Macedonia actually visited the most pages (on average) per visit -- at just under 6 on average from over 3,500 visitors.

And, of course, this isn't just about the odd facts, but about the overall community -- with many of you being quite loyal, which we appreciate to no end. 1.5 million of the visits -- or just over 10% came from people who visited Techdirt more than 100 times last year -- and the vast majority of those (just under 1 million) actually visited the site more than 200 times. You people rock.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for making yet another year of Techdirt awesome. Here's to a fantastic 2012.

Top Ten Stories, by Unique Pageviews, on Techdirt for 2011:
  1. The History Of The (Fake) 'Free Public WiFi' You Always See At Airports
  2. SOPA Markup Runs Out Of Time; Likely Delayed Until 2012 [Update: Or Not...]
  3. Apple Continues To Insist Only It Can Use An Apple In A Logo; Threatens Small German Cafe
  4. Guy Who Created The TSA Says It's Failed, And It's Time To Dismantle It
  5. Craigslist Trying To Destroy The Life Of Someone Who Made Posting To Craigslist Easier
  6. Breaking News: Feds Falsely Censor Popular Blog For Over A Year, Deny All Due Process, Hide All Details...
  7. Company Thanks Guy Who Alerted Them To Big Security Flaw By Sending The Cops... And The Bill
  8. NY Times & LA Times Both Come Out Against SOPA & PIPA
  9. EU Officially Seizes The Public Domain, Retroactively Extends Copyright
  10. PROTECT IP Renamed E-PARASITES Act; Would Create The Great Firewall Of America
2011's Top Ten Stories, by comment volume
  1. If You're Arguing That Someone 'Deserves' Copyright, Your Argument Is Wrong (823 comments)
  2. Do A Little Dance, Make A Little Love...Get Bodyslammed Tonight (At The Jefferson Memorial) (457 comments)
  3. Judge Bans Handing (Factual) Pamphlets To Jurors; Raising First Amendment Issues (429 comments)
  4. TSA Agent Threatens Woman With Defamation, Demands $500k For Calling Intrusive Search 'Rape' (403 comments)
  5. Revisiting The Question Of Who Deserves Copyright (376 comments)
  6. PROTECT IP Renamed E-PARASITES Act; Would Create The Great Firewall Of America (376 comments)
  7. Senators Want To Put People In Jail For Embedding YouTube Videos (374 comments)
  8. Monkeys Don't Do Fair Use; News Agency Tells Techdirt To Remove Photos (372 comments)
  9. Why Is The Justice Department Pretending US Copyright Laws Apply In The UK? (351 comments)
  10. Breaking News: Feds Falsely Censor Popular Blog For Over A Year, Deny All Due Process, Hide All Details... (341 comments)
* Note that only 2 of the most commented stories were also among the top 10 most visited stories, once again showing that traffic and the number of comments don't necessarily correlate.

2011's Top Users, by comment volume
  1. The eejit - 3,963 comments
  2. Jay - 3,433 comments
  3. Marcus Carab - 2,255 comments
  4. Richard - 2,209 comments
  5. PaulT - 1,841 comments
  6. Hephaestus - 1,662 comments
  7. nasch - 1,456 comments
  8. Dark Helmet - 1,426 comments
  9. abc gum - 1,357 comments
  10. HothMonster - 1,313 comments
2011's Most Insightful Users, as voted by the community
  1. Marcus Carab
  2. Dark Helmet
  3. Karl
  4. Richard
  5. Jay
  6. Chris Rhodes
  7. The eejit
  8. PaulT
  9. That Anonymous Coward
  10. E. Zachary Knight
2011's Funniest Users, as voted by the community
  1. Dark Helmet
  2. Marcus Carab
  3. Capitalist Lion Tamer
  4. The eejit
  5. :Lobo Santo
  6. Chris Rhodes
  7. Gwiz
  8. Hephaestus
  9. ChurchHatesTucker
  10. That Anonymous Coward


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    icon
    Dark Helmet (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 1:33pm

    Thanks, but...

    I'm not half as insightful as Karl, though I'm at least seven times as funny as any other Tim that regularly frequents this site.

    And I'm drawing a rivalrous line in the sand. Those that wish to stand with me against the evil usurper known Marcus Carab (pronounced More-Kiss Car-Rob, descriptive for the smooch-stealing auto-theif that he is), I await your acknowledgement as we prepare for battle.

    If it be a sin to covet honor,
    I am the most offending soul alive.
    Those who do not join us this battle,
    Shall think themselves a'cursed they were not here,
    And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks,
    That fought with us on St. Helmet's Day....

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 1:42pm

    Re: Thanks, but...

    DH has never forgiven me for kissing his car and hotwiring his girlfriend...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 2:00pm

    I don't think I did that bad considering I have only been around for half a year. My comment count as of the end of the year was roughly half the #10 spot on the most comments list. So I could get on that this coming year. Which will most likely put me up higher on the most insightful list. (unless of course my little brag fest here kills my chances)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    icon
    :Lobo Santo (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 2:37pm

    #5

    ... Man, I'd thought I was WAY more insightful than funny.

    _sigh_

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    icon
    Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 2:38pm

    An interesting stat, maybe?

    What was the most 'reported' comment this year? Maybe a top ten?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    icon
    Chris Rhodes (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 2:54pm

    Re: #5

    Apparently, I am precisely equal in both.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    icon
    Chris Rhodes (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 2:57pm

    Re: An interesting stat, maybe?

    I want to see the users who commented on the highest percentage of articles. I'm pretty sure it would be something like:

    1. Anonymous Coward
    2. out_of_the_blue

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 5th, 2012 @ 2:58pm

    Re: Re: Thanks, but...

    Would you?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    icon
    Kevin H (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 2:59pm

    Re: Thanks, but...

    Looks as though Marcus is looking to get you goat.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 5th, 2012 @ 3:27pm

    There is no doubt I got the ball rolling for you on your #1 most commented article of the year.

    I said in the comments that it was going to be *the* all-time thread.

    Where's my filet mignon and lobster reward?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 4:02pm

    Damnit, I knew hacking the voting system here (Made by Diebold) was going to get me caught.

    I wasn't paying attention and ended up in the top 10 twice!

    *takes a small bow*
    I am actually very honored people find value in the things I post be they funny or insightful... (sometimes I even mean them to be that)
    I'll be here till SOPA kicks me off, or one of the copyright trolls has me taken out and shot... (which is one of the rules under SOPA isn't it?)

    I remain...
    TAC

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 5th, 2012 @ 4:10pm

    And number of industry problems actually solved: 0



    (sorry, I'm hoping next year there is a Most Trolled category and I want a head start!)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    icon
    ltlw0lf (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 4:34pm

    Re:

    unless of course my little brag fest here kills my chances

    I thought I'd score on the list -- but you all out commented me (just guess I never have enough to say.) Anyway, congrats to all who made the list, and I want more buttons...'troll', 'shill', etc so that we can start seeing those numbers too. I hate the report button because I mainly see that as a way to report messages that are SPAM related (selling stuff, etc.) but apparently others are using it more for censorship of opinions they don't like.

    Having a 'troll' button would help, because some trolls here are very, very, very good and catch me every once in a while.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 4:45pm

    Re:

    I am clearly doing something wrong, as I'm one of three people in the top 10 in volume but on neither the funny nor insightful list! Oh well, I'll take the "just saying stuff" award. :-)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    icon
    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 5:17pm

    Re:

    You can not help those who are so blind with terror they will not see.

    They will not even look at their own history, which is why we have this groundhogs day everytime a new technology catches on, to see they survived the "Death" of their industry and made even more money once they embraced it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    icon
    ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 5:20pm

    Re:

    We're five days into the new year; I'm sure you're already way behind.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 5th, 2012 @ 5:20pm

    Congrats to Marcus Carab and Dark Helmet, who garnered the highest cumulative scores for insightful and funniest comments, respectively -- and, amazingly, each came in second place to the other in the category they didn't come in first. I sense a growing rivalry...

    Voting Marcus as "most insightful" commenter is a classic self-indictment of the low-bred denizens of Techdirt. Congratulations Marcus, on what will doubtlessly be your life's crowning achievement.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    icon
    Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 5:36pm

    Re: Thanks, but...

    though I'm at least seven times as funny as any other Tim that regularly frequents this site...

    The math clearly shows that you are only three times as funny. And infinite times more insightful, seeing as I failed to place on the smart half at all. I chalk that up to my penchant for easy punchlines and lack of appearance on the Top Users chart.

    Come to think of it, if this were sorted by LOLS/comment, I might be placing even higher. I'm sure it's all some sort of mathematical misunderstanding. On to New Hampshire!

    Any way you sort it, it's a great group to be included in. I now have NEW goals for the 2K12 Techdirt season and will be working twice as hard to mine the depths of inappropriate humor/humour not already mined by Tim "Penis Joke" Geigner. With my contract expiring at the end of the year and free agency on the horizon, expect a record-shattering performance, one on par with Chris Johnson's amazing stagger towards another 1,000-yard season. To the gridiron!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    icon
    Atkray (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 5:39pm

    Re:

    So tell me again...
    Exactly who are you?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    icon
    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 5:54pm

    Re: Re:

    No one in particular. Who are you?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    identicon
    Another AC, Jan 5th, 2012 @ 6:08pm

    I assume RSS feeds aren't counted...

    I only visit the site to comment, I read the articles via rss (pretty much all of them). I wonder how many others do that too, and if that skews the numbers?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    icon
    Gwiz (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 6:28pm

    Woohoo! I made the list!

    Makes me feel like Steve Martin in the movie The Jerk:

    I'm somebody now! Millions of people look at this [site] everyday! This is the kind of spontaneous publicity - your name in print - that makes people. I'm in print! Things are going to start happening to me now.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    identicon
    hothmonster, Jan 5th, 2012 @ 7:00pm

    Please tell that's by IP and you are counting all the times I don't sign my name.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 7:06pm

    Re:

    Wow, somebody's bitter he didn't make the list! Calm down there buddy - we actually DO think you're funny, just not ha-ha funny

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    icon
    Jeffrey Nonken (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 7:41pm

    Re:

    And I thought I was angry and bitter.

    Hey Mike... how about an Angry&Bitter button while we're at it?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    icon
    Jeffrey Nonken (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 7:47pm

    Re: Re:

    I agree -- "Report" is just too broadbrush a button without any other choice. I'd expect to see "Report" for, as you said, reporting spam or something unacceptably offensive. I'd like to see something more fine-grained for simply disliking a comment. What are the opposites of "Insightful" and "Funny"? Plus maybe a "Troll" button.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 8:01pm

    Re: Thanks, but...

    Incidentally, I agree with DH's first point: Karl brings way more to the conversation than either of us - just look at his comments. He has an awesome philosophy and a tonne of solid legal knowledge to back it up. But he doesn't comment nearly as much as me or DH, and he usually comments late - both of which keep him out of the running.

    So Karl I pass my proverbial crown to you - I'm keeping the million dollars though.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    icon
    Marcus Carab (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 8:05pm

    Re: Re: Thanks, but...

    (and as long as I'm being uncharacteristically modest I should point out that Tim C is funnier than me. As far as the rivalry between him and Tim G, no fucking way am I getting involved)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    identicon
    Suja, Jan 5th, 2012 @ 8:12pm

    Re: Re:

    it wouldn't be fair for others if they did

    cause OOTB/darryl/average joe would win every single time

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    icon
    Rose M. Welch (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 8:34pm

    has a sad. *wipes tear*

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jan 5th, 2012 @ 8:46pm

    Wow, people thought I was insightful...

    And I talk a lot!

    I'm going to talk even more in 2012! :)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    identicon
    Rekrul, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 12:26am

    About the most used search terms: The search box at the top of the page has "Search Techdirt" in it by default. Since I don't see any link to get to the page with more search options, I routinely click the search button, just to get the page that allows me to search by commenter name. (I like to see if anyone has replied to my posts) Perhaps others do the same.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 1:08am

    Hey Mike, is there any way you could do a quick SQL query to find the total number of Anonymous Coward posts just for reference (the total on name not IP).
    And maybe another query for total posts 2011 excluding Anonymous Coward.

    Would be sort of interesting to see how many prefer to post with a name as opposed to anonymously.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    icon
    mike allen (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 1:38am

    Re:

    actually with some of the ACs (trolls) id like to see the IP address then we can see who they really are. (joking).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 2:08am

    Re: Re:

    I want more buttons...'troll', 'shill', etc so that we can start seeing those numbers too. I hate the report button because I mainly see that as a way to report messages that are SPAM related (selling stuff, etc.) but apparently others are using it more for censorship of opinions they don't like.

    Having a 'troll' button would help, because some trolls here are very, very, very good and catch me every once in a while.


    We've discussed that, but in general, I've been against it. My thinking is that we'd like the buttons to encourage good behavior for the most part. That is, we prefer carrot to stick. And, the worry is that for the "true" trolls, then it becomes a badge of honor to strive for. However, it is a frequent request. Not sure what such a button would even do, though...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 2:08am

    Re:

    About the most used search terms: The search box at the top of the page has "Search Techdirt" in it by default. Since I don't see any link to get to the page with more search options, I routinely click the search button, just to get the page that allows me to search by commenter name. (I like to see if anyone has replied to my posts) Perhaps others do the same.

    The search terms are from people coming into the site from external search engines -- not what people are searching on within the site.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 2:38am

    Interesting stats. The Gibraltar anomaly is probably partly due to me, as I usually visit here from while working in Gib rather than from my home in Spain, and often leave pages of interest open in a tab to comment on when I have time. I'm definitely not responsible for the IE6 visits, though!

    Here's to 2012, let's hope there's more positive stories than those that annoy, but I'm not holding my breath.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 3:54am

    Haha one man claims all the views on gibraltar lol!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 3:56am

    And I second the position to allow us access to the total number of AC comments!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 4:16am

    Re:

    AC reading comprehension has not been improved for the new year then, I see?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    identicon
    Loki, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 4:25am

    And there are still nearly 100,000 that are, despite all of the best efforts of Microsoft to convince you otherwise, still inexplicably using IE6.

    I'm going to say those are probably the technical geniuses in the entertainment industry and congress.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
    identicon
    Loki, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 4:54am

    Re:

    I wonder if there's any way to calculate a "margin for error" for those stats given that from time to time people forget to sign in when they comment (or, in my case, forget to label my moniker before I send).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    icon
    RonKaminsky (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:10am

    Re: Re: Re:

    RatK, with a Pig Latin accent, perhaps?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:13am

    Re: Re: Re:

    How about a "Best Troll" button? Some of us go AC and troll for grins and giggles.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:19am

    Re:

    How about a left over bag of purina Troll chow instead?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    icon
    Otm Shank (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:21am

    You're welcome, for pumping up your IE6 counts. My company just recently allowed an upgrade out of IE6, because of a ton of legacy databases that it needed to support. We are also crusing along on Windows XP.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:21am

    Re: Re:

    "we actually DO think you're funny, just not ha-ha funny"

    I do not think clowns are funny, they actually freak me out.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:23am

    Re:

    He probably uses cookies and IP.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:25am

    Re: Re: Re:

    I'd like to see something more fine-grained for simply disliking a comment. What are the opposites of "Insightful" and "Funny"?

    I've suggested a Stupid button. It wouldn't hide the comment, just mark it with a "Duh" icon if it got enough votes. Nobody seemed interested though.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:45am

    Stats to see....

    So I know an IP doesn't equal a person, however it would be kinda cool to see the breakdown of number of commenters by state in the US.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    identicon
    hothmonster, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 10:45am

    Re: Re: Re:

    How about "Strawman" button and it can change that AC's(or named commentor) snowflake to a little strawman for that article.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    icon
    ltlw0lf (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 11:42am

    Re: Re: Re:

    We've discussed that, but in general, I've been against it.

    Yeah, good reasoning. I don't think it would work either.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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