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1.  

   Where's the common sense

   

   Cloksin (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 5:53am

   
   

   I really can't believe that a lawyer has actually taken this on. No where do I see that ebay is interfering with the auction. Lets look at it this way.
   
   You go to a traditional auction house because you've seen an item you're interested in. You go to the auction with a predetermined maximum anount of money you're willing to spend on that item. As the bidding starts, you don't bid that maximum amount right away, you bid the minimum possible and only increase it when someone else has out bid you. If things work out in your favor, you've purchased the item for much less than what you have set as your maximum bid for that item.
   
   Here's another example, you participate in an auction over the phone, speaking on the phone with a representative from the auction house. You start bidding on an item and tell the person on the other end of the phone, who is submitting your bids for you, that you don't want to bid more than a certain amount for this item, but you tell the person to keep bidding for you as long as the current bid is below that maximum amount. Again, if things work out in your favor, you've purchased the item for much less than what you had set your maximum bid to.
   
   It seems to me that this is exactly what ebay is doing. When in an auction house, the seller has no idea what I have set my maximum bid to, so when I purchase the item for less than my maximum the seller is none the wiser that I was willing to spend more than I actually did. Just because ebay provides a means to set your maximum, it in no way suggests that this amount is the actual bid. The actual bid is the increment set for the auction above the previous bid.
   
   Hopefully the judge will have the common sense to see right through this and dismiss the case right away.

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2.  

   Re: Where's the common sense

   

   Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:09am

   
   

   with prejudice

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3.  

   FleaBay

   

   Violated (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:18am

   
   

   I am only happy to see eBay get sued. Still I would agree that this case is totally insane. Had they wanted a better sale price then that is what fixed priced auctions are for.
   
   Just a shame eBay has not been sued for valid reasons and I can sure name a few examples.

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4.  

   Bottom line is this

   

   Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:34am

   
   

   There are plenty of stupid people on Ebay. Case closed.

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5.  

   bleh

   

   Pips, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:36am

   
   

   Don't care for ebay much. Sold an item on there and no where did it say they took a percentage of the cost when that item sold. I had to pay to list the item, and that is all they tell you about up front. They took like 5% of the sale after it had ended. Waste of time.

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6.  

   

   Rich Fiscus (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:39am

   
   

   So basically eBay is being sued because their online auctions work like offline auctions. Or more accurately, because they don't offer the seller the advantages of both regular and sealed bid auctions.

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7.  

   Motive!

   

   :Lobo Santo (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:41am

   
   

   This is obviously a meritless case,
   I'm betting it is only being brought on the hopes eBay will pay to make it go away...
   
   So, nothing more than a cash grab--trying for the vaunted "out of court settlement".

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8.  

   Drain...

   

   V (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:42am

   
   

   Idiotic lawsuits like this are one of the reasons that the court systems are so clogged and business insurance rates are so high.
   
   I have sold MANY, MANY things on eBay. I know how it works. I APPRECIATE how it works. I see no issue with the way it works. It really is no different than me telling an agent at an auction my maximum bid and allowing him to slowly increment it.
   
   This happens ALL THE TIME in the art world and at other high end auctions. The fact that some backwards idiot doesn't like it is now causing eBay to defend itself, which means they have to spend money... which eventually means they'll end up raising fees to compensate for having to defend themselves against frivilous lawsuits with no merit.
   
   Thanks idiots.

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9.  

   How is ebay's model any different than a 'book' bid?

   

   Michael Kohne, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:46am

   
   

   I've heard of normal auction houses doing a 'book bid' where buyers who don't show up can submit bids ahead of time to be considered at the moment of auction. As is explained here:
   
   http://esty.ancients.info/numis/auction.htm
   
   I think these people are going to have a hard time explaining to a judge (or a jury) how Ebay's system is any different than a book bid (which has been used in traditional auctions for many, many years).
   
   Even if it was some new thing (as opposed to a tweak to a very old model), I fail to see where it's Ebay interfering in anything - Ebay makes sure everyone obeys the pre-stated rules.
   
   If the rules were different, the bidders wouldn't put up large bids anyway. Instead it would end up resembling the silent auction at my local farmer's market - where you DON'T get maximum price because people have to come back to bid it up.

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10.  

    

    Loki, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:54am

    
    

    As someone who has done both a fair amount of buying and selling, this is pure ignorance and greed.
    
    There is NOTHING wrong with proxy voting.
    
    Look at it this way:
    
    I'm selling a rare Leonardo da Vinci sculpture.
    
    The CIA wants it so they send an agent to do their bidding, and tell that agent he can only bid a maximum of $12.
    
    The Vatican wants it so they send a nun to do their bidding, and tell the nun she can only bid $15.
    
    If mister CIA agent doesn't go over $12, why would misses Vatican nun bid more than $12.50
    
    The only difference is with eBay, the CIA agent and the Vatican nun are electronic so the President and the Pope don't have to sit there all day bidding themselves.
    
    What this/these clown(s) want if for everyone to be a Mayflower and just keep upping the bid to outbid themselves until the reach the magic number.
    
    Fine, I reserve the right to blow up the auction and sing a little song

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11.  

    

    Bob, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 6:58am

    
    

    Wow. As much as I hate how eBay fees have gone through the roof, making them nearly unusable now, I have to side with them on this one. This is completely crazy.

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12.  

    Re: FleaBay

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:01am

    
    

    why don't you name examples then?

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13.  

    Second-price auction

    

    Christopher Weigel (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:11am

    
    

    Ebay's model is an example of a second-price auction.
    
    The major advantage of second-price auctions is that they encourage a bidder to bid their "true valuation" of a product. I.e. if I am willing to pay $20, I have motivation to insert that as my bid.
    
    A first-price auction, on the other hand, makes it so the bidder has motivation only to bid minimally above the person below them.
    
    It's a classic game theory problem and the second-price auction is better for both the buyer (no sniping required) and the seller (again, no sniping)
    
    TL;DR, this is a stupid lawsuit.

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14.  

    How about...

    

    David (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:22am

    
    

    ...if you don't like the way eBay works, just don't use it? Some of these lawsuits are really stupid.
    
    I agree that they were upfront from the get-go about how their auctions work. I also don't use them much. Bought a few items in the early days, but have not really gone there much lately.

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15.  

    Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    John Doe, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:24am

    
    

    Of course, in practice, the bidding rarely works that way, with people often feeling pressure to raise their highest bid, or wait until the very end to snipe the bid
    
    Isn't this the whole point of an auction, compel people to bid? That is why it is called bidding.

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16.  

    Re: Second-price auction

    

    PrometheeFeu (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:33am

    
    

    No. Ebay is actually a traditional English Auction. In a second price auction, if I bid 12 and you bid 15, you will pay 12 and get the item. In an English Auction, the auctioneer, starts at a low price and slowly increments it by a fixed amount until only one person is willing to pay the offered price at which point the auction is over. So in the ebay system, you set your max at 15, I set my max at 12 and the auctioneer raises the price until 12. At that point, 2 of us are still willing to pay for the item, so he raises it to 12.50 where I drop out and you pay 12.50. It's the standard economic outcome you would expect under perfect competition.

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17.  

    Re: bleh

    

    Jon, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:51am

    
    

    It is posted that they take a 6% cut plus listing fee when you sign up a s a seller. You cant just click the 'I Accept the terms of the agreement ' box, you have to actually read it.

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18.  

    Re: FleaBay

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:52am

    
    

    I can name examples...
    But I wont.

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19.  

    Re: bleh

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 7:55am

    
    

    Typed ebay.com into address bar.
    Hit 'Sell' in top right bar.
    Hit 'User Agreement' near the bottom of the login page.
    Went down to the section 'Fees and Services' and actually read it.
    Followed the link for 'Fees Schedule' offered there: http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html
    
    The entire process from start to finish took considerably less time than composing this message but far be it from me to accuse you of a lack of effort and bitching about your own ignorance after the fact as if that was somehow someone else's fault.

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20.  

    Always Worked?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:01am

    
    

    Not that it matters, but I vaguely remember the beginnings of E-Bay working a bit differently.
    
    I remember sitting at my computer waiting for the timer to tick down to 5 seconds and place my bid. I'd pray my 28.8K modem would be fast enough to get my bid in. Then the wait for the refresh of the screen was agonizing. Would someone else have done the same thing but bid more the I?
    
    Then they implemented an incremental "end time". Every bid within the last minute reset the timer to add another minute for bidding. Or something like that.
    
    I was singing praises when they came out with the "maximum bid" concept.

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21.  

    Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    nasch (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:03am

    
    

    Isn't this the whole point of an auction, compel people to bid? That is why it is called bidding.
    
    But what's mystifying about eBay (to me anyway) is why most people don't just set the max they're willing to pay, and leave it. Apparently virtually all auctions are won by sniping now, so I can't even tell by entering a bid if I'm going to win. The "99 cent" current bids on almost everything, and even the higher bids on some items, are meaningless, because they're just going to get sniped at some unknown higher price.
    
    I would probably use eBay more if everyone just entered bids and left it at that.

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22.  

    Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:03am

    
    

    What they're getting at is that there's no reason at all to bid more than once with the ebay model. Logically the value of the item to an individual shouldn't change over the course of an auction so only one maximum bid is necessary. However, for a human the prospect of loosing the item is often enough to change the value of the item temporarily in spite of the long term value remaining exactly the same.

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23.  

    Re: Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:05am

    
    

    I think you're irrationally attaching too much value to knowing before the auction is over if you're going to win or not. Just bid you max and leave it be. If you get outbid it's because someone overpaid for it (from your perspective) and that's no loss to you.

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24.  

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:06am

    
    

    Isn't this just the same theme as every other story here?
    
    Someone sues someone else for not maximizing their profits for them.

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25.  

    

    HRHaig (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:09am

    
    

    I say if this guy wins, we should all sue him for jacking up the prices on us when we bid on eBay. That'll learn him a lesson!

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26.  

    Re: Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    John Doe, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:12am

    
    

    I don't understand your post. Auctions encourage bidding more than once by the bidder. That is why it is bidding. Whether or not the item gets sniped in the end is irrelevant. You are bidding against other live bidders, snipers or not, and the automatic bidding. I see nothing underhand or even unfair about the process. Bid what the item is worth to you and don't cry if you don't get the item. I am speaking of the general "you" here, not you in particular. :)

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27.  

    

    Nick, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:16am

    
    

    Sheesh. And here, as I was reading the article, I formed a thought in my mind of what the complaint probably is. I thought that, in the case of a 12 and 15 dollar max bid, that the 15 dollar person was complaining that they had to bid 12.50 to win, instead of 12. If you think about it, if you have the highest bidder automatically bid the max of anyone else, that means nobody else will bid higher, so it follows the rules.
    
    Again, I at first thought that it was the highest bidder of an item complaining over what is essentially a 50c tacked on price, not a SELLER complaining that "max bid" doesn't automatically get submitted instantly.
    
    What the client here fails to notice is that this is essentially a live auction, not a silent auction. Live auctions you pretty much just know that you were out-bid, and have time to determine if you wanna go again. Silent ones, you put up a price, and if you are highest you win. Ebay is NOT hiding which one this is.

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28.  

    Re:

    

    FarSide (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:19am

    
    

    You have it basically right.
    
    However, as the basic premise can take many forms, I feel there's plenty of value in calling attention to the different forms.
    
    The more times one is exposed to all the variations in an idea, the easier it is to spot them on one's own.

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29.  

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:45am

    
    

    If you're going to make a lawsuit against an auction site, do it against these penny auction sites like qBids. That shit should be illegal.

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30.  

    How does this work?

    

    Jay (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:46am

    
    

    Lemme get this straight...
    
    Ebay is the new Google and needs to be auction neutral?

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31.  

    The Case of the Clueless Seller

    

    Steve R. (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 8:50am

    
    

    I dropped E-bay a long long time ago. In one case, I won the bid for substantially less then the seller wanted. The seller made all sorts of ludicrous noises to the effect that he could simply cancel the transaction since it was far less than his perception of market value. In the end, the seller grudgingly shipped.

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32.  

    Re:

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 9:16am

    
    

    "Isn't this just the same theme as every other story here?
    
    Someone sues someone else for not maximizing their profits for them."
    
    Yes, but no, what it is, is someone suing someone else for not doing something that they in their ignorance believe would maximise their profits but would in fact cause utterly different behaviour which would actually reduce the profits that they make.
    
    You know, like claiming piracy is destroying their business when there are more movies making more money and more musicians writing more songs and more able to make a living etc etc.

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33.  

    Re:

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 9:30am

    
    

    Well, you do have to consider that in the movies, when there's a high-stakes auction going, there's always someone at the end that way overbids because they're made of money.
    
    These people probably want something like that to occur, where someone doubles the previous bid at the last second and writes them a check on the spot.

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34.  

    Re:

    

    ComputerAddict (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 9:31am

    
    

    Who do you think is filing the complaints (through other companies...) I'd bet that qBids, et. all is the real motivator behing this lawsuit.

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35.  

    Re: bleh

    

    DevVM, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 9:33am

    
    

    It's not their fault that you didn't read things completely.
    
    There is no way in hell those fees aren't spelled out.

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36.  

    Re: Where's the common sense

    

    MrWilson, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 9:40am

    
    

    Yeah, it appears that the plaintiff is just confusing the difference between a bid and a bid limit. The bid limit is how much you're willing to bid, but the bidder in no way intends to pay that much if the highest bidder with whom they are competing doesn't bid nearly that high. The bidder's willingness to pay the high amount is contingent on it being necessary.

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37.  

    Re: Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    Killercool (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 9:46am

    
    

    I use Ebay regularly to buy retired Lego sets. For some of them, I am willing to pay $50. If at all possible, though, I WANT to pay less.
    
    I have a lot of free time, so I just bid the minimum amount to qualify for one of the sets. If I get outbid, I bid again. Y'know. Like an auction. Amazing, really.

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38.  

    Re: The Case of the Clueless Seller

    

    smacdav, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 9:48am

    
    

    The seller's resistance is not EBay's fault. On the contrary, probably the only reason that the seller shipped in the end is that EBay wouldn't allow them to cancel the transaction. Once someone has won an auction fair and square, the seller is required to sell to the winner for the winning price. You have EBay to thank for helping you out by requiring the seller to play by the rules.

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39.  

    Re:

    

    Killercool (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 9:49am

    
    

    Even in a silent auction, you can usually raise your bid.

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40.  

    Re: Re: The Case of the Clueless Seller

    

    Killercool (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 9:52am

    
    

    Also, isn't there a "Minimum Value" function? Like, the seller sets a price below which the auction is invalidated?
    I believe it is separate from the starting bid. I dunno. I've only ever bought stuff.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

41.  

    Re: Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 10:03am

    
    

    Having used ebay quite a bit in the past, I've occasionally run into what I believe is a common seller trick of creating shill accounts to bid up to someone's maximum bid before the auction ends. They know that most people can't stand being outbid and will bid again before it ends.
    
    As such, I started the practice of "bid sniping" as well, although I would usually just bid in the last hour of an auction, and then put my maximum bid in within the last couple minutes to circumvent other snipers.
    
    At this point, most sellers aren't going to mess with it, as they may risk having to buy their own item back.

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42.  

    Re: Re: Re: The Case of the Clueless Seller

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 10:07am

    
    

    You mean like setting a reserve?
    
    Both setting a reserve and setting a higher starting bid incur higher fees to list an item, so that's why they try to avoid it if they're sure an item will reach their predicted market value.
    
    The fees for selling items on ebay are ridiculous these days, and on top of that, if you use paypal, they double-dip.

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43.  

    Re: bleh

    

    Travis, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 10:23am

    
    

    Don't care for reading much either? http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html

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44.  

    Re:

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 10:24am

    
    

    nobody cares bob

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45.  

    auction explanation confusing

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 10:28am

    
    

    I realize you took that auction example from them, but did you leave something out? Having never used ebay I found it confusing. Why is it not $12.01 instead of $12.50 for example?
    
    To make this example make sense I would removed the "current bid is $10" from #1 because it is irrelevant and adds confusion. And in #3 add "because ebay has $0.5 as a minimum increment".
    
    After that it makes sense, but I would remove all the crap about "bid" vs "maximum bid". Your bid *is* your maximum bid. The whole thing comes down to simply, "The maximum bidder actually gets the item for the cost of the second highest bidders bid plus a small increment."

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46.  

    Re: Re: Second-price auction

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 10:37am

    
    

    But it really is exactly the same thing in the end, except in one case there is an increment added on. English Auction == Second Price Auction + increment.

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47.  

    Snipe

    

    Violated (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 11:05am

    
    

    People bidding early are being stupid when this only causes a bidding war. They beat you, you beat them and so on. Price goes up and up beyond what the item is worth.
    
    It is much better to snipe the auction. Just figure out the maximum fair price you want to pay and bid at 3 to 10 seconds before auction close.
    
    The snipe service I use is PhantomBidder but you can get PC software like HammerSnipe.
    
    Doing snipe saves you much time and money.

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48.  

    Ebay

    

    CrushU, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 11:06am

    
    

    I've used it to buy and to sell. I have never had problems (except that I think their fee is a bit excessive, but hey, saves me time so I don't begrudge them.)
    
    One time, I bid on an item and it did not make it over the seller's listed minimum price. I negotiated with him and he posted it for a lower minimum price and I won that bid as well. (Mostly for covering shipping costs.)

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

49.  

    Re: Re: The Case of the Clueless Seller

    

    Steve R. (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 11:22am

    
    

    Agreed, it is not an issue concerning Ebay. My intent was to illustrate another example of how clueless some of the people (who sell on Ebay) are concerning the auction process.

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50.  

    Re: Re: Re: Second-price auction

    

    CrushU, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 12:08pm

    
    

    "exactly the same ... except"
    I do not think that word means what you think it means.

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51.  

    Re: bleh

    

    Jeffrey Nonken (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 12:13pm

    
    

    Um... you know, I've been both a buyer and seller on eBay for years, and they've always been pretty upfront about their fees. The first time I tried to sell something I read through their information several times to make sure I understood the process details, but all the information was right there in the instructions.
    
    Maybe you should have read ALL the words.

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52.  

    Re: Re: Re: Second-price auction

    

    Jeffrey Nonken (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 12:16pm

    
    

    It's exactly the same, only different.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

53.  

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Second-price auction

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 12:26pm

    
    

    "I do not think"
    
    Was more truth ever spoken?
    
    Intended meaning is derived from words taken in context.

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54.  

    

    Jeffrey Nonken (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 12:36pm

    
    

    The stupid! It burns!

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

55.  

    Re: Re: Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    nasch (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 12:57pm

    
    

    I think you're irrationally attaching too much value to knowing before the auction is over if you're going to win or not. Just bid you max and leave it be.
    
    I don't agree. If everyone bid their max immediately, I could see which auctions are still in my budget and which ones are already more than I want to bid, as well as take some guesses. For example one that's close to my max and still has a week to go probably isn't worth the time to bid on it. As it is now, the price might as well be listed as "?". I have no idea how much someone is planning to bid on it.

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56.  

    Let's do it

    

    How about it, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 12:58pm

    
    

    How about we dig a really deep pit, or find a old mine shaft. Then put all the lawyers in the world into it and seal it. The world would be a much happier place.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

57.  

    Re: Re: Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    nasch (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 1:00pm

    
    

    Having used ebay quite a bit in the past, I've occasionally run into what I believe is a common seller trick of creating shill accounts to bid up to someone's maximum bid before the auction ends.
    
    I suspect there's quite a bit of that type of fraud going on, which is another turn-off of eBay. The real problem is eBay isn't directly hurt by this, and in fact benefits from it in the short-term, so they don't particularly want to crack down it unless it's necessary to retain buyers.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

58.  

    

    Claiborne (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 1:15pm

    
    

    Um .... I believe that this is the exact definition of an auction, as opposed to paying the marked retail price for an item.
    
    The price is not set but is negotiable, depending on the demand of those parties interested in purchasing the given item. The point of placing your items for sale in this way, is to try and get the maximum amount the market will bear in a given time period. Sometimes the seller gets more than they would have asked for the item. And sometimes the buyer gets a the item for below what the seller would have originally asked for the item. But throughout the transaction, the market demand is what drives the price/value of the item.
    
    If you dislike this business model, don't sell your items at auction.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

59.  

    Re: The Case of the Clueless Seller

    

    Drew (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 1:22pm

    
    

    Umm, that is not E-Bay's fault in any way whats-ever. There are ways to ensure that a seller ensures that a particular 'base-price' is met when they create the auction, if he wasn't savvy enough to configure it properly that's no fault of the winning bidder. However, again, E-Bay is not responsible for someone trying to hold out on you.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

60.  

    You linked right to it, Dude

    

    HavaCuppaJoe, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 1:27pm

    
    

    Dude,
    The sale percentage fee is right on the page that you linked to. They call them "Final value" fees and the price is different depending on how much the item sold for and whether it was an auction or a fix-price sale. It's right in the fee schedule on the page you linked (bold below):
    
    
    Insertion fees for auction-style format listings
    Final value fees for auction-style format listings
    Insertion fees for fixed price format listings
    Final value fees for fixed price format listings
    Business and Industrial equipment fees
    Optional feature fees
    Reserve price fees
    Buy It Now fees
    Listing upgrade fees
    eBay picture hosting fees
    Seller tool fees
    Half.com fees
    Other terms

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

61.  

    Can't read, can I?

    

    HavaCuppaJoe, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 1:31pm

    
    

    Woops. Responded to the wrong guy. I guess I should learn to read also....

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

62.  

    Re: auction explanation confusing

    

    Drew (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 1:36pm

    
    

    Wow, why comment on the process if you have never used the process?
    
    On E-Bay when a seller creates an auction they can set a starting bid, and the minimum bid increments. When someone puts in a bid on a given item they can set what their bid is and set their bid to automatically re-bid the next increment up to a maximum bid if another person bids on the item.
    
    For instance I put something up for auction with a starting bid price of $10 and minimum increment of $0.50, Tom comes along and bids on the item for $10 and sets the maximum he wants to bid on the item to $12. Well when Laura comes along and bids on the item for $10.50 and sets her maximum bid to $15, the E-Bay system will cycle through the intervening bids very quickly. Meaning Laura bids $10.50, well Tom said he would pay more than this so the system bids $11 for Tom, then $11.50 for Laura, then $12 for Tom, and finally the system bids $12.50 for Laura which is above Tom's maximum bid.
    
    In the example above remember that Tom, or someone else says Steve, could come back and bid more for the item since auctions last for days or weeks.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

63.  

    Where do these nutters spring from?

    

    Philip Cohen (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 2:39pm

    
    

    I do hope that the shyster was not stupid enough to have taken the case on a "no win no fee" basis.
    
    But, how could any one, even this idiot lawyer, think that it was lawful/ethical for the auctioneer to disclose the maximum bid of an "absentee/proxy" bidder?
    
    Well, as most of us already know, if the seller is smart enough, the eBay system will disclose the maximum proxy bid. This dill apparently has not yet figured that out.
    
    eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

64.  

    Where do these nutters spring from?

    

    Philip Cohen (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 2:40pm

    
    

    I do hope that the shyster was not stupid enough to have taken the case on a "no win no fee" basis.
    
    But, how could any one, even this idiot lawyer, think that it was lawful/ethical for the auctioneer to disclose the maximum bid of an "absentee/proxy" bidder?
    
    Well, as most of us already know, if the seller is smart enough, the eBay system will disclose the maximum proxy bid. This dill apparently has not yet figured that out.
    
    eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

65.  

    Where do these nutters spring from?

    

    Philip Cohen (profile), Jan 6th, 2012 @ 2:40pm

    
    

    I do hope that the shyster was not stupid enough to have taken the case on a "no win no fee" basis.
    
    But, how could any one, even this idiot lawyer, think that it was lawful/ethical for the auctioneer to disclose the maximum bid of an "absentee/proxy" bidder?
    
    Well, as most of us already know, if the seller is smart enough, the eBay system will disclose the maximum proxy bid. This dill apparently has not yet figured that out.
    
    eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

66.  

    Re: Re:

    

    Nick, Jan 6th, 2012 @ 11:18pm

    
    

    Sure, but since it's silent, you have no idea if you NEED to raise it, so I'm sure everyone's first price quote stands.
    
    I am I guess not counting the kinds that inform people if they aren't the highest bidder, but won't say what is highest at the time.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

67.  

    Re:

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 7th, 2012 @ 4:38pm

    
    

    Mike, I think you need to post less articles like these. Agreeing with what you post gives Bob an allergic reaction.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

68.  

    

    Vincent Clement (profile), Jan 8th, 2012 @ 7:57am

    
    

    Can we file a class action lawsuit against sellers for their outrageous Shipping and Handling fees?

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

69.  

    Re: bleh

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 8th, 2012 @ 10:44pm

    
    

    Seriously? They tell you the percentge cost up front. Yes they do.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

70.  

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 8th, 2012 @ 10:53pm

    
    

    Again, bid your max. If you win, you are happy. If someone else bids more then you are out nothing and have the satisfaction that they paid more than you thought the item was worth. They might be thinking they got a bargin, but what do you care?

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

71.  

    Re: bleh

    

    Anonymous Coward, Jan 8th, 2012 @ 11:06pm

    
    

    If Ebay were truly like a regular live auction, Ebay would take the "sellers fee" (auction fee in reality) from the buyer. Regular live auctions charge a 15% or 20% fee on the final sale price, paid by the buyer.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

72.  

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Isn't this the whole point of an auction?

    

    nasch (profile), Jan 9th, 2012 @ 7:52am

    
    

    It's wasting my time. I don't want to bid on something, wait a day to find out I lost, bid again, wait another day to find out I lost, etc. And I don't see much difference between sniping and just shopping, so I just go elsewhere, unless I specifically need something that's not available new.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

73.  

    This is how ALL auctions work

    

    Adam, Jan 14th, 2012 @ 1:09pm

    
    

    Obviously the person who created this idiotic lawsuit has never been to a REAL auction before. Ever single person sitting in an auction has the maximum amount they are willing to spend tucked in their brain somewhere. The auctioneer doesn't ask them what is their maximum bid is, they ask what their CURRENT bid is. This whole lawsuit is so stupid the attorney filing the case should be disbarred IMMEDIATELY.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

74.  

    Re: bleh

    

    Eric, Jan 14th, 2012 @ 1:32pm

    
    

    Obviously you didn't read eBay's terms and conditions very well as they clearly state that you pay to list and you pay a percentage. JUST LIKE YOU DO AT A REGULAR AUCTION, except at a regular auction they jack the price on the purchaser.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

75.  

    Proxy bidding

    

    Philip Cohen, Jan 14th, 2012 @ 2:01pm

    
    

    Still, the fact that a nutter and his idiot shyster have taken this absurd case to court tells us something about the total absence of intelligence of some in this world. Sheesh! Or, as some would say, "only in America".

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

76.  

    Re: Where's the common sense

    

    Steve Stav (profile), Jan 15th, 2012 @ 3:33am

    
    

    This suit may require some mind-clearing for some to grasp, and admittedly the "proxy bidding" angle is ingenious. The essence: eBay does not claim to be an auctioneer. It does not have an auctioneer's license. In fact, its legal claim as a hands-off "online bulletin board" that merely "facilitates" auctions has allowed them to circumvent various regulations, including the Internet Communications Act. It has allowed them to not be responsible for the site's content, for example. This has been the biggest elephant in one room of a house of cards for more than a decade, and eBay has thumbed their nose at the lagging legal system while inventing and cornering a huge market share. PayPal shenanigans, facilitating libel via feedback, acting as an arbitrator/return center with sellers' funds, etc., etc.... and David's "proxy bid" case comes along with a slingshot. We'll see if anyone pays attention to his aim. - 14 year eBay member

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

77.  

    

    Philip Cohen (profile), Jan 15th, 2012 @ 11:52am

    
    

    @ Steve Stav,
    
    Well, if you really want to open the unscrupulous eBay's "can of worms":
    
    A tale of two unscrupulous and clunky commercial entities: eBay and PayPal
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24533
    
    eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #1
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22659
    
    eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #2
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22904
    
    eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #3
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22986
    
    eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #4
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23540
    
    PayPal claims PayPal Is Not a Payments Processor!
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24148
    
    Amazon and eBay on the collection of state sales taxes
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24517
    
    And from along the way a compilation of (mostly inane) quotes from eBay executives:
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24159

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

78.  

    Re: Proxy Bid lawsuit

    

    Steve Stav (profile), Jan 15th, 2012 @ 1:59pm

    
    

    eBay is an incredible ongoing case study in how to build an unprecedented empire while keeping at least two steps ahead of the courts. Time has been on their side.
    
    This suit's pretty clever in its simplicity, and everyone leaving comments on various websites are fixated on the proxy bidding process. It's like one of those weird pictures you have to stare at the right way to see.
    
    The suit contends that eBay is breaking California state law by inserting itself into the auction. Among other things, EBAY DOES NOT HAVE A CALIFORNIA AUCTIONEER'S LICENSE. I honestly don't know how many suits have argued that eBay is hardly a hands-off, neutral third party, etc. But this specific avenue might get someone's attention.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

79.  

    

    Philip Cohen (profile), Jan 15th, 2012 @ 2:24pm

    
    

    Anything that irritates that bumbling "Pain from Bain" John Donahoe is OK with me.
    
    eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

80.  

    Auction Law, Dual Agency and a mine field

    

    AuctionsASAP (profile), Feb 2nd, 2012 @ 12:18pm

    
    

    If eBay can be held to auction laws within many states then this lawsuit may have a dramatic impact. I agree with the vast majority that its understood how eBay works and that eBay’s process appears to balance the needs of the seller with those of the buyer however that is not the case with auction laws.
    It gets into the debate of dual agency which is a mine field in the auction world. Auctioneers normally only represent their client the seller and that makes it nearly impossible to represent the buyer. Dual agency is like having the same attorney represent both the plaintiff and defendant in the same case. Most of us realize the problems with that situation.
    I believe the attorneys in this case will argue that eBay must represent the seller and not the buyer. If they are successful on that issue eBay has a problem because they are being made aware that the buyer is willing to purchase the item for a much higher price than what was paid. If eBay is representing the seller, shouldn’t they then sell the item at the higher price? I’m sure the attorneys will be making that point.
    Some of the other users have mentioned auction houses and I believe they have slightly missed the mark. EBays bidding rules and process are closer to that of accepting absentee bids at auction. Believe me its something that is very tricky for auction companies.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

81.  

    eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking

    

    Philip Cohen (profile), Feb 2nd, 2012 @ 1:29pm

    
    

    “When Do We Start Calling eBay A Payments Company?”
    
    http://www.businessinsider.com/ebays-transformation-when-do-we-start-calling-ebay-a-payments-compa ny-2012-1
    
    A picture is worth a thousand words, so they say. This linked “Business Insider” article contains a graph of eBay revenues since 2003. It shows, quite starkly, how eBay’s Marketplace revenue has stagnated since 2008, about the time that the headless turkey from Bain & Co, John Donahoe, got hold of the tiller and started his “destructive renovations”, and eBay’s share price has moved little in the same period; ergo the eBay Marketplace has effectively been in decline since 2008.
    
    It should be obvious, even to the simplest of analysts, that as time passes, the Amazon River flows ever more strongly, whereas the eBay Marketplace now consists of little more than a chain of stagnant ponds covered in slimy green algae—and isn’t that a couple of rusting Chinese-made shopping trolleys that I can see dumped therein?
    
    The graph also shows the eBay-underpinning increases in revenue eBay has received from PreyPal during the same period, that is, from roughly when the “eBafia Don” effectively mandated PreyPal’s use on the eBay Marketplace. Some analysts therefore think then that eBay’s future lays in PreyPal.
    
    Well, if anyone thinks that the retail banks are going to let such a clunky, parasitic, flea-sized, upstart, middleman, “merchant of sorts” such as PreyPal—who after all does no more than ride precariously on the back of those banks’ own payments processing systems—continue to nibble away at one of the banks’ principal areas of business for any length of time, all I can say is, dream on …
    
    PreyPal is little more than a clumsy, fraud-enabling middleman that also nullifies the statutory protections that, in many countries, would otherwise be available to users paying directly with a real bank’s credit card.
    
    Then there is PreyPal’s current testing of “mobile payments” at POS in Home Depot stores. Are people actually leaving their funds “on deposit” with this clunky, unlicensed, prudentially unregulated, PayPal “non-bank” that is itself not even licensed to provide credit? Otherwise, how are the funds for such mobile payments being sourced by PreyPal from the payer’s real banking account in a way that the merchant can be sure of ultimately getting paid by PreyPal? Not with the standard non-guarantee of payment that PreyPal serves up to its online merchants, I hope.
    
    And, unfortunately for eBay’s chief headless turkey, Visa’s professional online offering “V.me”, when it is up and running later this year, will undoubtedly put paid to whatever success that the clunky PreyPal has had with professional online merchants outside of its mandated use on the eBay Marketplace—and soon thereafter both these unscrupulous and clunky entities should commence/continue their long-deserved journeys down the gurgler.
    
    Scott Thompson saw the writing on the wall; John Donahoe remains delusional, that fact confirmed by the many reported sightings of him waving his mobile phone about and mumbling about UFO sightings over San Jose.
    
    “How secure is PayPal for sellers?”—UK “Guardian”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/jan/27/is-paypal-safe-protection?commentpage=last#e nd-of-comments
    
    And an interesting follow up to this UK "Guardian" article at:
    http://www.hadess.net/2012/01/getting-conned-ebaypaypal-fun.html
    
    “Vendor Claims eBay Plays Dirty” (Who could have believed it?)
    http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/02/01/43529.htm
    
    Scott Thompson abandons the struggling eBay for the struggling Yahoo
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=166803#post166803
    
    PayPal claims PayPal not a debit card or payment network!
    http://forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24148
    
    eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

82.  

    

    onme23 (profile), Feb 11th, 2012 @ 10:00pm

    
    

    Well I do know sooner or later they will have a class action suit against them for suspending accounts for miss categorization of digitally delivered goods. How can they suspend these peoples accounts when they make a policy and can not even police it.
    
    They rely on other members that are jealous to report other members yet watch each week millions of auctions go by with out flagging or removing these auctions.
    
    Case in point even many members that are violating this policy that are top rated sellers and even being reported none of there auctions were removed or there accounts suspended.
    
    Case in point when you see an auction in the wrong category for a penny start bid with free shipping and the seller has listed 100's even a thousand of the same auction and the highest auction won is 40 cents with most selling for a penny what does ebay think they are doing? paying 44 cents to ship each auction:) they have been told over and over to do something about this and yet to date they offer zero solution except to flag who they feel they want.
    
    Ebay's stance is if it does not say by email in the listing it's okay because we can not investigate all these auctions.
    
    Simple to prove they are doing it regardless if they put by email in there listings, check out there feedback. when you see 100's of comments the same day the auction ended saying fast shipping um does ebay think an auction that just ended for a penny that this was shipped by a rocket ship.:)lol.
    
    They should not have a policy even the members can not keep up with. It's unfair to flag a few and let millions of auctions and 100's of members get away with it.
    
    
    Sound like a fair policy to any of you? I hope ebay continues to suspend more accounts for this stupid policy because the more peoples accounts they suspend the more to join a class action against them.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

83.  

    Probably not gonna fly

    

    Brian Faber, Mar 6th, 2012 @ 2:35am

    
    

    However,
    
    I do have something I believe is class action worthy.
    
    Has anyone lost money using eBay as a seller? Recently, I have had several cases open against me by one individual. He is claiming I never shipped the items he purchased. Not only do I have a receipt from the USPS, it had tracking and delivery confirmation which comes back as delivered. If eBay awards this user his money despite the fact that I have rock solid, legitimate proof, I will be taking my case to a lawyer.
    
    I will also be filing mail fraud charges with the USPS. What's funny to me is, with the solid proof I have, the postmaster general has given me 100 percent confirmation
    that I have not done anything wrong and my charges will stick. The user in question will have to provide proof without the slightest doubt that I never shipped them, and that is impossible. Hopefully stealing 30 dollars worth of records is worth several thousand dollars in fines plus criminal charges. WOOT WOOT.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

84.  

    Re: FleaBay

    

    jo, May 16th, 2012 @ 9:12am

    
    

    i agree all this suit is crazy and not justified im am totally pleased to see the scammers getting it as a seller on then im sick of there rubbish and lack of protection from evil buyers,, no matter what proof we hav ebay isnt interested we are treated with disregard as the hold OUR money...the whole sight needs suing till its crooked arse blows lol

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

85.  

    Re: Auction Law, Dual Agency and a mine field

    

    jo, May 16th, 2012 @ 9:29am

    
    

    very clever response!! your comments is very interesting :), i personally hope ebay gets stung.. for all the other crooked ways they have squashed their sellers who are in effect what keep ebay going

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

86.  

    Re:

    

    jo, May 16th, 2012 @ 9:32am

    
    

    can we file a law suit over crooked timewasting buyers, who are favoured in ebays eyes

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

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