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  1.  
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    xenomancer (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 5:04am

    Do You Need an Invoice?

    You heard the man, pay up! I can't patronize you freeloading freetards with complementary 30 second samples forever! If you don't pay me what I want now then you are killing the comment industry!

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 5:35am

    Re: Do You Need an Invoice?

    You want to make money by mooching off of Mikes awesome articles and commentating on them. Sorry old chap but I'm afraid you'll have to pay a licensing fee and give up all copyright claims for said comments to Mike for all eternity. If you don't then I'm afraid you will have to be sued.

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 5:44am

    The sound of one hand clapping. The cartoon is a pretty poor attempt to self-justify piracy. Keep up the good work...

     

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  4.  
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    Kaden (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 5:51am

    Re:

    When all you have is talking points, everything looks like an attempt to justify piracy.

     

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  5.  
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    Ninja (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 5:58am

    Re: Re: Do You Need an Invoice?

    The comments are public domain, Mike can use them in his public domain articles whenever he wants. But I can see what you did there ;)

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 5:59am

    Re:

    It's pretty obvious what you're doing with your other hand, boy.

     

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  7.  
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    xenomancer (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:00am

    Re: Re: Re: Do You Need an Invoice?

    Hahaha, I suppose a "/sarc" may have been advisable.

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:01am

    Re:

    "The cartoon is a pretty poor attempt to self-justify piracy."

    Come up with something better.
    ...funny, I don't see anything...

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:01am

    Re: Re:

    Kaden, the cartoon is a cute way to both play down the idea of piracy, and to play up the "stupidity" of charging for "content", by using something that is not content. It's the typical sort of soft attempt to get a mental shift by those in the middle, by being misleading and mocking the other side's position.

    It sucks.

     

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  10.  
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    AJ (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:06am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "by being misleading and mocking the other side's position."

    The irony is strong with this one......

     

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  11.  
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    Kaden (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:10am

    Re: Re: Re:

    So you don't see it as a commentary on how Big Content slathers the grim specter of piracy on top of every spurious cash grab initiative in an attempt to harness moral outrage as a societal lubricant?

    Because that's what I see.

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:16am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    It's only ironic to you because you buy into what they are saying. Congrats for being "just another victim".

     

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  13.  
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    xenomancer (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "you buy into what they are saying"

    Funny, does anyone remember paying anything?

     

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  14.  
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    The eejit (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:21am

    Re: Re: Re:

    It's not a cartoon, therefore your argument is invalid. Now pay up for posting here!

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Are you actually that dense?

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:36am

    This is hilarious, because the webcomic is drawn in more or less the same style as Cyanide and Happiness.

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:42am

    Sorry, but standing next to someone, creating nothing, and then providing an invoice for payment does not comprise the creation of "an original work of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression".

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:43am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Stupid is believing that something imaterial without form can be content.

    I ask myself why musicians have to pay other musicians, if someone does a cover he is investing in that music, he is taking somebody else expressions and making his own, working with it and he has to pay the first one?

    Why?

    Can restaurants charge other restaurants for using their recipes? can Rolland charge musicians for making music with their content? every musician should pay the manufacturers of sound equipment shouldn't they?

    Musicians can't possibly expect to use somebody else work to make a profit and don't pay anything for what people have done before right?

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Victim of clarity?

     

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  20.  
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    xenomancer (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I may appear to be a little lighter than igneous rock pulling the bad joke that I did, but 20 adult elephants barely balances a spoonful of the nutronium residing in your head. Please either learn to chuckle rather than get personal or find a real, factual reason for being such an execrable malcontent.

     

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  21.  
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    The Infamous Joe (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:54am

    Re:

    What if I was standing next to him, acting out an original play, or telling jokes, or singing a song?

    Did I still create nothing?

    I needs me more protection for my art!!!11eleven

     

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  22.  
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    The Groove Tiger (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 6:55am

    Re:

    Perhaps the same could be said about all artists!

     

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  23.  
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    Atkray (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:07am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ah leave him alone, he's just upset because he couldn't figure out how to say the comic is FUD and Mike is a slimeball pirate.

     

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  24.  
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    Bengie, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:11am

    Re:

    Anything you every hear or see is content. PAY UP!

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:13am

    Re: Re:

    It helps to understand the definition of terms used in our copyright laws. Definitions can be found at 17 USC 101.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:14am

    Re: Re:

    See #25

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:14am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Unlike you guys, I don't feel the need to repeat the obvious at every turn.

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:15am

    Re: Re: Re:

    I don't think it sucks, I think it is an accurate portrait of the parasitic nature of copyright.

    The real thieves are artists that don't do the work anymore and keep asking the people who do to pay them.

    Why should any musician lose his job at a bar because the owner was threatened by a collection agency?

    Why should anybody who works in front of a crowd for 8 or more hours a day have to pay anything to some dude he wouldn't even be allowed to get close to it?

    Copyright parasites don't work they extort money from those who do and threaten their own fans.

     

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  29.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:16am

     

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  30.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:17am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "I ask myself why musicians have to pay other musicians, if someone does a cover he is investing in that music, he is taking somebody else expressions and making his own, working with it and he has to pay the first one?"

    The simple answer is that without the original work, the secondary work does not exist. It would be a remake of silence, which is what we get all the time for free.

    The rest of your recipe and sound equipment rants only goes to show how hard you are working to obscure the obvious.

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:17am

    Re: Re: Re:

    my name is anonymous coward and I don't know how to separate between reality and something mocking reality.

     

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  32.  
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    Bengie, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:19am

    Re:

    "creating nothing"

    He did create something, he talked. Unless you're arguing against audio not being copyrightable, but then music couldn't be copyrighted.

     

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  33.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:The irony is strong with this one......

    But the brain is weak.

     

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  34.  
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    The Infamous Joe (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I was sure the '!!11eleven' would have given it away.

    Alas, some people see only what they want to see.

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Then nothing would be ever made since in your head everything needs to come from somewhere, but that is not what it happens is it?

    Now, why should you get things for free without paying the people who enable you?

    According to yourself without work done before there would never be future work is that not right?

    So can there be musicians without instruments? Rolland, Yamaha should collect money from the use of their property no?

    Why manufacturers of musical instruments that enable musicians everywhere to play for large crowds not paid by their work?is their property lesser in importance somehow to the creation of imaginary property?

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:29am

    Re: Re:

    At the risk of repeating myself, read 17 USC 101. Unlesa and until an original work of authorship is "fixed", copyright law does not apply. Fixation is a condition precedent to securing a copyright.

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:30am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The rest of your recipe and sound equipment rants only goes to show how hard you are working to obscure the obvious.


    The same can be said about your little rant about how artists create something and need to be paid, everybody needs to be paid for their work, not extort others that do the work or the same work, I don't see carpenters suing each other for doing the exact same things do you?

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:31am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Funny I'm pretty sure you are the troll that keeps coming here day after day saying the exact same BS every time.

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:33am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    true, you tend to represent the oblivious more than the obvious.

     

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  40.  
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    TheOldFart (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:36am

    "I want my twooo dolllarsss..."

     

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  41.  
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    The Devil's Coachman (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:45am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Is that "fixed" as in what vets do to dogs and cats?

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:58am

    derp

    what a dumb comic.. of course anything that heralds piracy mikey is all over.

     

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  43.  
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    Ninja (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:58am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Nothing that copyright trolls don't do regularly.

     

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  44.  
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    btrussell (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 7:59am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Nope. And since we haven't mastered growing straight trees with straight grain, it takes skill, knowledge and creativity to build.

    Shelter is more valuable to me than "Give Me Shelter" is.

     

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  45.  
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    btrussell (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:09am

    Re: Re: Re:

    The copyright system is "fixed."

     

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  46.  
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    el_segfaulto (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:15am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Do You Need an Invoice?

    I'm not sure if it's an actual rule of teh intarwebs, but no matter how obvious the sarcasm, somebody will take it seriously.

     

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  47.  
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    Bengie, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:16am

    Re: Re: Re:

    The human rain is just a computer. It's dynamically "fixed" as it's recorded into memory.

     

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  48.  
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    The Mighty Buzzard (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:17am

    Re: Re: Re: Do You Need an Invoice?

    For a completely incorrect value of public domain. Mike works in the US and you cannot produce public domain material if it is eligible for copyright in the US. You get the copyright whether you want it or not.

     

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  49.  
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    btrussell (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:20am

    Re: derp

    It says piracy is wrong.

    You don't think you should be able to come here and post for free do you? It costs money to run a site. I know it isn't being run by Gene Simmons or Angelina Jolie, but it still costs money.

    Don't be a jerk just because you don't like the content. If the price is too high, don't use that to justify your actions.
    Just quit coming here.

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:35am

    Isn't the cartoon pointing out that culture being shared is piracy?

     

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  51.  
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    Greevar (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:35am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Everything is built on what came before. That's why nobody should have the right to claim "ownership" of any intangible art. Art comes from what people have done in the past and thus, it belongs all of humanity equally. Nobody should be restricted from copying, altering, remixing, etc. of old ideas into new expressions.

    "All art is derivative. There is no form of art that is totally original... 'originality' is a modern art construct... a silly concession to marketing concerns." - Paul deMarrais

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:42am

    Why IP laws are so bad:

    Quote:
    But many of the technologies that these patents protect are so abstruse or vague that companies may end up running afoul of the law without even knowing it, said Bijal V. Vakil, a partner at law firm White & Case in Palo Alto, Calif.

    "It's become a virtually unmanageable task to go and see if you have the freedom to operate," he said. "Procedurally it would be impossible to check all of (the valid patents) - even large companies can't afford to do that."

    Source: http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-apple-legal-war-android.html

    Even science dedicated blogs are noticing.

     

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  53.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:44am

    so ho long till someone is sued for being able to hear a concert outside the venue and not having a valid ticket?

     

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  54.  
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    Greevar (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:45am

    Re:

    Pretty much.

     

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  55.  
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    Greevar (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:46am

    Re:

    The THIEVES!!! String them up!!

     

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  56.  
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    Bob, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:47am

    Real content providers actually put a price at the door

    Real content creators give content away all the time. When they want to charge, though, they put a price tag on it and make sure that the customer knows it's there. That's just how business is done. No one sends an invoice after the fact.

    Sigh. The irony is that the web comic author is actually trying to monetize what is given for free-- but with a legit form of business. There are t-shirts, coffee mugs and over five pages of stuff all available for a price.

    I wish the author well because it's tough to run a business. I just wish the author had some sympathy for the other creators who are trying to do the same.

     

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  57.  
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    ethorad (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 9:12am

    Re: Re: Re:

    So can we video rock concerts without breaching copyright?

    Afterall performances by their very nature are not fixed. They may be performing something which they have a fixed version of, but the live version will have differences - plus in videoing you are adding creative decisions about framing the shots etc.

     

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  58.  
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    ethorad (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 9:16am

    Unauthorised silence?

    It would be a remake of silence, which is what we get all the time for free.

    Actually, it would be an unauthorised version of 4'33".

    John Cage doesn't get nearly enough in royalties for that piece!

     

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  59.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 9:43am

    Re:

    Sorry, but standing next to someone, creating nothing, and then providing an invoice for payment does not comprise the creation of "an original work of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression".

    I fear your sense of humor needs recalibration.

     

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  60.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 10:54am

    It will always be free of charge to hang out with me. So long as you don't mind the annoying ads I have on my sleeves...

     

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  61.  
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    Chosen Reject (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 12:07pm

    Re: Real content providers actually put a price at the door

    The creator of the comic gets the digital age though. He has an infinite good that he gives away (the comic) and sells scarce goods that are not easily reproducible. He uses the infinite good to increase the value of the scarce good. Few if any people would buy this coffee mug for $17, but he uses the free infinite good to make that mug more valuable than a plain one that sells for $4.

    No one is saying that creators shouldn't get paid. You either don't understand the arguments being made here, or you are being deliberately obtuse to further some agenda of yours.

     

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  62.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 3:04pm

    Re:

     

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  63.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 3:08pm

    Re: Real content providers actually put a price at the door

    So you admit that not everything needs a price tag and that some things drive the sales of other things.

    Well dumbass welcome to the radio era or the television era you are just late to the game just about a 100 years or so but you will catch up I'm sure.

    Now please can you point me to the nearest website of a musician so I can rip his music from his own website and have him closed for inducing piracy.

     

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  64.  
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    MPAA RIAA sucks, Nov 9th, 2011 @ 3:09pm

    anal leakage

    The last line should read "And pirating content, along with child pornography, is wrong." Then if you argue against their point, you must be for child pornography.

     

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  65.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 4:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So can we video rock concerts without breaching copyright?


    An interesting question. On the face of it, it seems the answer is "yes".

    However, every concert/play/movie ticket I've ever seen has terms attached to it that forbid recording. It may not be a copyright violation, but it would be breach of contract.

     

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  66.  
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    xenomancer (profile), Nov 9th, 2011 @ 8:34pm

    Re:

    What about the invoice? Clearly some creativity went into the numbers printed on it.

     

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  67.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 10th, 2011 @ 1:57am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Do You Need an Invoice?

    Yep, it is a rule. Can't remember the name though.

     

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  68.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 10th, 2011 @ 6:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I agree that it is an interesting question if "fixation" has not taken place prior to or during the concert (see Title 17, Section 101 and the "transmission" provision associated with "fixation").

    While this is a highly improbable situation, it is nevertheless a possibility that does make this an interesting question as you note.

     

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  69.  
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    xenomancer (profile), Nov 10th, 2011 @ 10:45am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Do You Need an Invoice?

    Hehe, not 34.

     

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  70.  
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    Jose_X, Nov 18th, 2011 @ 9:45pm

    Re:

    >> Sorry, but standing next to someone, creating nothing, and then providing an invoice for payment does not comprise the creation of "an original work of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression".

    Is promoting a narrow interpretation of "tangible medium of expression" and of "authorship" that excludes the observer's brain your way of saying that you don't value the work, creativity, spontaneity, privacy sharing, and inspiration that results from hanging out with someone else? Do you really want to go on record as saying you don't value the creator's expression and impression on his/her audience's mind and the work required on his/her part?

    What if the audience then goes on to create a work that derives ideas and expressions arrived at with the help of that valuable hanging out moment? What if the observer records the moment and makes lots of money afterward? Are you saying that you think the original creator is not entitled to a cut of the profits or injunctive relief?

    What kind of anon ac troll are you!

    It's because of fake trolls like yourself that in this day and age we still have many slaves performing and creating purely and exclusively for the sake of others without receiving a dime in compensation.

    It's as if you don't value people's time or think creativity falls from a tree.

    Hanging-outers have been exploited for far too long, and if our Congress depends on the opinion of people like yourself, it will be years still before this injustice has been corrected.

     

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