Want Revenue From Used Games? Just Have GameStop Buy DLC Codes For The Customer

from the that's-one-way dept

We all know that many game companies are really upset about being locked out of the used games revenue stream. Warner happens to be one of those companies. With the release of Batman: Arkham City, Warner is giving a free code to new game buyers that lets the gamer play as Catwoman during the game. If you buy the game used, you will need to buy a new code to access Catwoman. That is if you buy it used anywhere other than GameStop.

According to a memo sent to Kotaku, Warner and GameStop have partnered up to give free codes to buyers of used copies of Batman. Granted, GameStop is most likely paying for these codes for the customer and is most likely getting them at a discounted rate. This happens to be a great deal for both companies and even some customers. Warner gets the satisfaction of capturing used game revenue with a reduced risk of customers deciding not to buy the redemption code. GameStop gets a leg up on the competition which don't have the same deal. Finally, customers of GameStop don't have to shell out the extra cash to play as Catwoman.

This is an interesting move on Warner's part. GameStop is the poster child for the evils of used games, according to many games industry veterans. However, even the toughest critic of GameStop's policies recognizes the power this one brand has over the game consumer, thus the deal. If GameStop is willing to make such a deal with Warner, would they be willing to do the same with other companies such as EA or Ubisoft?

Of course, there are additional ramifications to consider. How will this affect the relationship with other game stores, both in and outside the US, which don't have the same leveraging power? Will those smaller stores be coerced into deals that are not as sweet for them and their customers? Regardless of the ramifications, it is nice to see a company actually be proactive about capturing used games revenue rather than just complain and punish players. Why can't more companies act this way?


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  1.  
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    freak (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 7:44pm

    They could also, y'know, realize that the used-game market isn't a bad thing.

    It increases the value of their future games, the presence of a secondary market helps the primary market flourish, etc. etc.


    I'm more pissed off than anything at the stunt. This isn't something *extra*, this is something they took out of the game. From what I've read, It is impossible to 100% the game without playing as catwoman. Don't have an internet connection? You're SOL, even if you bought first-hand or at gamestop.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 7:48pm

    "Regardless of the ramifications, it is nice to see a company actually be proactive about capturing used games revenue rather than just complain and punish players."

    What is this, a paid advertisement?

    "Warner is giving a free code to new game buyers that lets the gamer play as Catwoman during the game."

    It's not free, it's included in the price of the original. Anytime someone says, "I'll sell you this, and if you act now, I'll throw something else in for free" that's called a paid advertisement. It's not free, it's included in the original price.

    "If you buy the game used, you will need to buy a new code to access Catwoman."

    IOW, if you buy the game used, the game is crippled. That's not adding benefit, it's adding unnecessary restrictions and taking away benefit from those who buy it used elsewhere, despite the fact that you made money (the full price) from the new purchase of a seller.

    "GameStop gets a leg up on the competition which don't have the same deal."

    This is anti-competitive. So you punish the competition to benefit yourself, right? You punish other buyers and sellers of used games by locking the game down for them, despite the fact that those sellers ultimately purchased the game from the original manufacturer (who profited from the original purchase)? Sounds almost like double dipping to me. Or a twisted version of selling shareware and selling the full version for an additional fee. Or selling different tiers of a game and selling upgrades.

    Far be it for the DOJ to get involved though, of course, they're too busy going after Google for non-anti competitive behavior (though a more recent Techdirt post may offer them a somewhat more valid opportunity to go after Google).

    It's not really capturing the used game market. Capturing such a market may imply offering originals and lowering their prices. Or buying used games from customers and selling them at a slight profit. But here, the company isn't offering anything additional beyond simply enabling a code (that can likely be hacked, but if it is hacked, lawsuits will probably occur).

     

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    freak (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 7:55pm

    Re:

    The catwoman parts aren't included on the disk, they have to be downloaded.

    So it's not only hacking; players would have to also distribute the hacked files. Not that that adds much additional trouble to the hacker, but I imagine that pisses off the 1st hand buyer we just bought the game and has to wait another 10 minutes for his game to finish downloading.

     

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    freak (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 7:55pm

    Re:

    Eh, I'm trying to source this now, because I'm mostly repeating things I've heard on forums. Which aren't always the most reliable of new sources.

     

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  5.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 7:58pm

    Re:

    IOW, tapping the used game market should generally imply doing at least some extra work. If you want more profits, it should require more work. If others are willing to do the work of buying and selling used games and incurring the expenses necessary, then they ought to reap the rewards. If game manufacturers want to profit from the used game market, they ought to put some additional work into it (ie: incur the expenses of purchasing used games and offering a venue to sell them at a slight profit). They shouldn't expect to profit from the used game market without doing any additional work in the process, and, as a society, we shouldn't enable them to.

     

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    Keith_Emperor_of_Penguins (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:01pm

    Re: Re:

    This is always the case for DLC. Regardless of if you buy first or second hand, you always have to download the DLC if want it. The difference here is they provide you with the Catwoman missions free if you buy second-hand from GameStop. Basically its just marketing, nothing more. And don't expect this to be the only DLC, there's probably going to be a few more DLC packs for the next year.

     

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    freak (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:08pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    "A portion of the [riddler] puzzles are also specific to Catwoman, and can only be completed by her."


    A part of the base game was taken out of the game to be made into DLC.

    This did not need to be separate from the disc, this did not need a redemption code, this was not made after the rest of the game.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:08pm

    Assuming the DLC wasn't removed from the 'new' games being sold.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:10pm

    Re: Re:

    Well, then maybe that's not so much an issue for first hand sellers who can first download the additional feature and install it before selling the game (not sure how that works) but I still think it's scamming second hand buyers who bought the game in used conditions and now have features disabled (the feature to download this new addition without paying extra), despite the fact that the original seller bought it at full price. The second hand buyer bought it under the assumption that if he bought the game (in used condition) he would get all of the features of a new game (other than the fact that it's in used condition and anything used is worth less). So it seems to be scamming used game buyers, which I think isn't fair to them, as this may not have been disclosed to them ahead of time (or to the original seller even, so that they can disclose it to the second hand buyer).

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:14pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    (that is, assuming the second hand buyer bought it before the additional feature was released, then he's stuck paying extra for that feature).

     

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    Keith_Emperor_of_Penguins (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I haven't gotten that part yet. Did they do this before they released the game new? If it is, then they're way overdoing it with the DLC money grab on this one.
    Its just as bad when they leave features in the game, but fake the DLC to pretend you download extras. Or when they make you pay for DLC that fix the game since it was released too early.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:21pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Think of it this way. If I buy a used graphing calculator, or even a (valid) used Windows XP license, I can reasonably expect that, if there are any software or firmware updates, I will have full access to those updates. In this situation, the rules were changed last minute.

     

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    Keith_Emperor_of_Penguins (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:21pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    You can only install the DLC on your current game (it saves it locally), it never burns the DLC back into the disk. So you'll always have to buy the DLC if you want it.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:24pm

    Re: Re:

    You better hurry up and get it right before the IP trolls decide to jump in and cuss at you claiming that you don't know anything ;)

    Well, they may do that regardless anyways.

     

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    Haywood (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:26pm

    Re:

    Couldn't agree more, why should I have to buy at Game Stop when private sellers exist. This is like making it so I have to buy a used car from a used car dealer or reverse won't work.

     

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    Keith_Emperor_of_Penguins (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:27pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Well technically, if done correctly (not scamming people), DLC are extra content they made after the main release or during the development but didn't make it into the final game do to time constraints or other reasons. (this is new characters, maps, weapons ect.)
    Kind of how, if you buy Windows 7 basic, you can upgrade with more content like Home, Pro, or Ultimate for extra payment.

     

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  17.  
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    freak (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:36pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Oh right. Turns out everything I'm talking about is on wikipedia.

    So, looks to the wiki's sources.

     

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    freak (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:38pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    They're overdoing it with the DLC money grab.

    I should note also, that in all the promotional material, playing as catwoman was touted as being in the game.

     

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    Keith_Emperor_of_Penguins (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 8:46pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Yep, It seems most developers are going down this route now. I blame Capcom for all this. They were the first to sell huge numbers of DLC's for things like Resident Evil 5, to unlock things that were already in the game. Fallout too.
    This is not the original intention of the Downloadable content, or how its supposed to work.

     

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    big al, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 9:05pm

    2 cents worth...

    statement:
    when i buy a game,i should have everything needed to finish that game in the box.... no internet, no add on, no dlc...
    expansion pac's should be just that an addition to the game,not something you must have to have to finish the game.
    patches for game errors should not cost anything and should be downloadable at will.
    if they want to call my ownership a license fine...as long as i can sell or give away or swap at my pleasure without any problems to me or the buyer.
    if i want to multiplay on a server at an additional fee,again no problem as an add on not just to play the game.

    these are the rules i play by and spend my money for....

    you play by them or i buy elsewhere....

    it my money...and when you,as a game developer want it,you meet my rules or keep it... i can spend my money elsewhere

    my $59.95 worth,.....

     

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  21.  
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    Jay (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 9:06pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    There's some DLC that is good. DLC for cosmetic changes and differentiate the game, that's fine.

    But this is to complete a section of the game that's already part of the game, and if you're a completionist, it's almost like taking away important parts of the story.

    I was thinking that Zach had it right that, that perhaps the companies were doing something pretty good to differentiate the game and give different stores incentives. But now that I'm reading it, it's the same story as the DRM of Ubisoft. It's an artificial barrier to the game, and from all looks the game is pretty sweet with content. It's still a money grab, but damn does it suck for the gamers who rent.

     

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  22.  
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    Jay (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 9:13pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Actually, point a finger at Activision and the yearly DLCs for its games PLUS new games.

    Capcom may be bad with a few games, but when I look at the SF4 series, most of it is just DLC for costumes which aren't important. Activision is more of a money whore with Call of Duty to the point that they made it an artform.

    Since premium subscribers will be getting the maps and other content before the rest of the community is able to buy it, nonsubscribers are going to be walking into content that the hardcore players have been practicing and mastering for days, if not weeks. It's going to be a bloodbath. There will be no moments of learning the new maps and modes along with the rest of the community; you're going to be going up against pros who know all the good hiding spots and tactical positions from your very first session until your last. Unless, of course, you're willing to pay to get the content early.

    Clan support will also be beefed up, with premium clan features that allow your clan to level up as well as your character, and to unlock items and features specific to your clan. Your clan could earn its own double-XP weekend, and of course you'll be able to compete against other clans and test your mettle. Both players and clans can take part in competitive matches for real-world prizes, and Activision promises these matches will be refereed by actual people, and open to players of all skill levels.



    Basically, it's all hardcore or don't bother showing up. That game is ridiculous when you factor in the prizes that they're giving away for playing nonstop.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 10:19pm

    Steam FTW

    I can't believe anyone still plays consoles... what a ripoff. I can get quality games for almost nothing on Steam (sometimes you can get entire publisher catalogs for under 100 dollars)

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 10:21pm

    Re: Steam FTW

    Arkham City is PC too.

     

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    Killercool (profile), Oct 24th, 2011 @ 10:34pm

    Re: Re: Steam FTW

    Not until mid-November. The 18th, I believe.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 24th, 2011 @ 10:57pm

    Re:

    Dang, I got an insightful remark, and it turns out that I didn't even really understand the situation properly (since other people corrected me, apparently). I do not feel this insightful remark was fully deserved and I would like to distribute credit to others who contributed to the conversation and corrected my misunderstanding of the situation. Thanks.

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 1:10am

    Re:

    "Don't have an internet connection? You're SOL, even if you bought first-hand or at gamestop."

    This is precisely why my game console buying ended with the
    PS2. Between these stunts and the price of the new console systems I'm just not interested anymore. I'd rather break out my original Nintendo. I just don't have the time to justify the costs or the headaches anymore.

     

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  28.  
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    PaulT (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 2:09am

    Re: Steam FTW

    "I can get quality games for almost nothing on Steam"

    Not new games, and you still have to invest in hardware upgrades to make the most of those games... Meanwhile, I can usually get games for less than 15 if I wait 6 months on consoles, and I know I can play a single player game if I'm not connected to the internet.

    Each to their own, and each platform has advantages and disadvantages. Just don't pretend your chosen platform is inherently superior, especially if you're using the price of DRMed files as your metric.

     

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    freak (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 6:52am

    Re: 2 cents worth...

    "when i buy a game,i should have everything needed to finish that game in the box"


    To be fair, catwoman is not required to finish the story. She IS required to 100% the base game.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 7:19am

    Re:

    wouldn't have to be hacked per se....just brute forced

     

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    Lord Binky, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 7:24am

    Re:

    I understand the usefulness of the used game market. I wouldn't feel like the retailers assaulting me with purchasing used weren't scummy bastards when they want me to purchase of the used game to save 5 dollars on a 60 dollar purchase. I buy new because I know that the 8.4% I save on the purchase means my purchase does not go to support the makers of the game. It really pisses me off when the retailer does not carry new copies because they only have 12 used copies. That results in a lose of sale for the retailer, but I'm sure there is plenty of people who feels better about saving 5 bucks than knowing they are contributing to the creators of the entertainment they enjoy. Just to make clear, it is the practice of undercutting the new games with used during their highest demand that is annoying, not the used bin of 2 year old games that are out of print. Bluntly, I like the content creators more than the middle man since that is who will create the next item of interest for me.

     

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  32.  
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    rstr5105 (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 7:31am

    Re: Re: Steam FTW

    The PC platform is NOT inherently superior, however, the Steam market is.

    Though the games do have steams DRM involved, (must be logged in to play, since a recent patch broke offline mode) the ability to download games, and ACCESS THEM ANYWHERE makes it a strong and well thought out manner of game distribution.

    I'm not a strictly PC Gamer, I've owned several consoles, Xblock 360 being the last.

    Over the course of the last 2 years, I've realized that consoles are simply a waste of my money, though YMMV.

    There is currently a strong move in the industry that breaks backwards compatibility on consoles, companies (not to say any names) are removing features that were originally intended to be on their consoles, and then suing people who put that feature back in. *cough* OtherOS *cough*

    Consoles do bring many would-be non-gamers (my mother for one) into the gaming world, and I can appreciate that, so I think the biggest problem isn't the consoles themselves...just the people making them.

     

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  33.  
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    hothmonster, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 8:46am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Im pretty sure you can 100% it w/o catwoman. With her content the game gives a possible gamerscore of 1200, and I think the rule is still 1000 for a game w/o DLC. I know gamerscore and % complete are different things but my point being I am pretty sure the devs are treating this as extra content. Though even though I have beat the game 1 and 3/4 times i am no where near 100% so I can't be certain.

    Its 4 short missions (on of which is literally just a fight with 4 goons). The game is certainly complete without it, although it is cool to have it in. The big advantage of the DLC is the new playable charater, which isnt just batman with a catwoman skin. Catwoman has a different fighting style, gadgets and movement style. So its certainly a decent piece of work, and a lot of fun, but if it never existed it wouldn't be detrimental to the game.

    So now the question that I don't think gets discussed enough in these DLC arguments. Would this have been made if they didn't plan to use it as DLC? Now I hate the rapid growth in day 1 DLC as much as the next gamer, and find myself waiting till GOTY editions more and more often. Certainly if I feel like something was ripped from the game only to be resold, thats bullshit. Or if a game feels incomplete and then continues on in DLC, thats bullshit. But gamers assume all DLC is something that was made, finished and THEN they decided they could put a price tag on it. I would imagine a lot of this stuff is made only because of an increased budget specifically allocated to make DLC. So the question is was catwoman ripped from the game or was she made specifically for DLC and because the MAN gave extra resources to the dev team to make cool DLC?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 8:49am

    Re: Re:

    Retailers make about 2-3$ on new game sales. Gamestop couldn't exist if it only sold new games. Though I agree, if its relativity new and you are talking about a 5$ price difference, support the devs not a middleman.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 8:52am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "This did not need to be separate from the disc, this did not need a redemption code, this was not made after the rest of the game."

    But was it made on a budget specifically for DLC. In other words would they not have had the resources to make this if they didn't know it was being used to create an extra revenue stream?

     

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    hothmonster, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 8:54am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    " but damn does it suck for the gamers who rent."

    and gamers who live together and share a console. You know like brothers or roomates

     

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    Allomancer (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 9:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    How do you know this was made on a budget specifically for DLC? All of the evidence points to the opposite conclusion, actually. First off, the Catwoman content isn't even DLC in the way we traditionally think of it. There's no option to buy a (new) copy of the game for $50 that doesn't have Catwoman, and then you can go buy that if you want it. It's a part of the full game, only if you buy the game used or don't have an internet connection, your copy of the game is gimped.

    Then there's the fact that Catwoman was used heavily in the marketing for this game almost from the beginning. There was no mention of the fact that not everybody would have access to her until a week before the game released! It's a total bait and switch, and not at all consumer friendly. It's just a scheme to extort money out of Gamestop, but gamers are the ones who get hurt.

     

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    Rekrul, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 9:27am

    Remember the good old days, when you bought a game and you got the entire game right then and there? Any downloadable content was a plus that could be used to extend your enjoyment of the already complete game. Now, you buy 75% of a game and the rest has to be downloaded, or even worse, bought separately.

     

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    freak (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 9:37am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So, they couldn't include all the content for $60 that they had already made part of the core game?

    DLC is supposed to be for new, additional, non-core content, like expansions, new non-core characters, etc.

    No one is complaining that Robin or Nightwing are DLC, for example. They aren't core characters in the game; You do not require them to 100%.

    To switch to a different series, I don't think anyone complained that Undead Nightmare was DLC/expansion.


    Catwoman isn't just an add-on to the game for 1st hand buyers, she is PART OF the game.
    Now, if catwoman wasn't part of the game, and just a bonus given to 1st hand buyers, I wouldn't mind so much. A lot of gamers would still be pissed because playing as catwoman was advertised as being a big part of the game. If it hadn't been advertised like that, I doubt many people would have a gripe at all.

     

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    freak (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 9:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    How so?

    If I DL the DLC for catwoman, my roommates & GF can also use that DLC when they play on the same console, can't they?

     

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    Allomancer (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 9:52am

    "it is nice to see a company actually be proactive about capturing used games revenue rather than just complain and punish players. Why can't more companies act this way?"

    No! Don't encourage them! If you don't want people to sell your stuff used, don't sell a physical product. That's all there is to it. If you sell an object that can be passed around, once you sell it, it's not yours anymore and you don't get any say in what happens to it.

    It's certainly possible to create enough value in a non-physical product that people will give up the ability to resell what they buy. Just look at Steam. I can't sell any of the games I buy there, and can't buy any used games, either, but the ability to have access to my games on any computer I want, coupled with the great community features and awesome sales means that I now buy almost all my games through Steam. Taking value away from your products to try to extract rents may be a business strategy, but it's not one that will endear you to your customers. However, adding value will get you the best of both worlds.

    On the other hand, I can kind of understand why the game industry is the most vehement in opposition to the used market, because I don't know any other industry where the used reseller is as powerful or heavy-handed as Gamestop. Buying used games for $20-30 and then turning around and selling them for $50+ certainly seems like a rip-off to me. Add to that their constant upselling and badgering you to preorder crap makes it a hassle to even be a Gamestop customer (that's why I'm not anymore). But at the end of the day, it's the consumer they're ripping off, not the publisher. And it's the consumer who has the power to change things. If gamers want to keep getting ripped off by Gamestop, then that's their business. They must be getting some value out of the place, even if I don't see it. That's the free market, though.

     

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    hothmonster, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 10:16am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    http://community.batmanarkhamcity.com/forums/showthread.php/5962-Catwoman-question.-(-Not-a-rage-top ic-)?p=142312

    according to this you do not need her to get 100%. There are a couple other topics on the same board saying no she is not needed for 100%, although if you have it it increases the 100% requirements to reflect her.

    So its not really core. Like I said the game would be fine without her. You get a couple extra missions and she a couple extra characters in her plotline, but as far as the main plot is concerned she is unnecessary. Though she is incorporated into the main plot if you have her, I would be curious to know how a few things play out without her. Though this does raise an interesting question, did they add her to the game or did they take her out and then do more work to cover up the holes created by not having her.

    I agree having so much info on her in the lead up to release and then suddenly saying she is online pass only is bullshit. I am not really arguing for or against this being a good/moral/decent move. Its just I don't ever see the discussion of if those millions of extra dollars (from retailer to developer) for pre-order exclusives and the millions of extra in funding knowing you will have day 1 DLC make it worth it. People argue they ripped stuff out of my game, but maybe it was only made because they had more money, or only made specifically to be DLC and if that money wasn't in the budget this would have been cut and not be made. Most games now days are planned with DLC in mind, that gives them a greater budget to do extra stuff stuff the producer would have cut in the pre-dlc days.

    Personally I think the only thing we can do is trust the developer. Hope that they arnt crippling their own game to make an extra dollar or trying to sell horse armor. Really I am conflicted about this specific case. The game is certain complete without it and it adds value to the game, but I am not a fan of first sale dlc and without Rocksteady saying otherwise, I agree it looks more like they ripped this out then added it in.

     

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  43.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 10:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    " I agree it looks more like they ripped this out then added it in."

    and in the same respect when this game was still just on the drawing board did someone say, "Hey can we get some playable catwomen?"

    "Well WB wants us to have a 1st purchase DLC so I guess we could devote the time to making a new playable character and developing her storyline if its for that.


    or was it

    "woot game is done!"
    "Hey WB wants a 1st sale DLC, can you rip that catwomen chunk out?"

     

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  44.  
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    ChrisB (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 10:22am

    Re:

    > Buying used games for $20-30 and then turning around and
    > selling them for $50+ certainly seems like a rip-off to me.

    Use Kijiji and you can sell for $40.

    Publishers having all this DLC will hurt GameStop because they have to lower their used game prices. Right now, their used games are $5 less than new games. But if the new game has DLC worth $10, they HAVE to price their used games at $15 less, and therefore pay $10 less for used games for the same margins. When they start offering people $10-20 for used games, everyone will flock to Kijiji (or Craigslist).

     

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  45.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 10:33am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "How do you know this was made on a budget specifically for DLC?"

    How do you know it wasn't was my point.

    "It's a part of the full game, only if you buy the game used or don't have an internet connection, your copy of the game is gimped."

    Its an extension of the main game, a side chapter. Though I agree people who buy new and don't have internet are twice as fucked.

    "Then there's the fact that Catwoman was used heavily in the marketing for this game almost from the beginning. There was no mention of the fact that not everybody would have access to her until a week before the game released! It's a total bait and switch, and not at all consumer friendly."

    Agreed, even the first in game footage was of the first catwomen map.

    "It's just a scheme to extort money out of Gamestop, but gamers are the ones who get hurt."

    Meh, this practice has been going on for awhile before gamestop tried this. I think the idea is if they pay 5$ a piece for a code and then can sell the game for 10$ more they are better off. I swear this is the second game that gamestop had this deal for, but can't for the life of me remember what the other one was. Certainly online pass bullshit is detrimental to gamers.

    But that leads back to my original point. Why do we assume all devs/publisher did this maliciously and ripped out code originally planned to be part of the main game in order to make an extra dollar. Why is it never assumed that this was designed this way from the start and the only reason they let the devs make this was because it was planned to be DLC.
    How much extra content can we expect from a game(not everyone is valve)? at what point is it extra? Does it have to come out after release to be extra? Can dlc be created at the same time as the main game or should anything made prior to release be on the disc? Are extra people dedicating extra resources to a part of the game that would not exist in pre-dlc days?

    I remember when DLC first came around and it was so full of promise. Then of course so devs saw it as a money pot, while I think others saw it as a way to add life to their game and increase their budget for a game to create awesome, extra stuff. Problem is now both the good guys and the bad guys get the same reaction, YOU CRIPPLED MY GAME YOU MONEY GRUBBING WHORE!

     

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  46.  
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    hothmonster, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 10:40am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    for xbox at least its tied to your gamertag. Well, not sure about this specific one since I live by myself now but that has been how its worked for a long time.

     

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  47.  
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    freak (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 10:43am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Just so you know, Catwoman is in the main plot regardless of whether you have the DLC.
    They don't change that if you don't have the DLC, although I imagine it might make a little less sense if you don't also play through her chapters.

     

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  48.  
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    freak (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 10:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I see.

    That's very true and another reason to hate DLC in general.

     

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  49.  
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    hothmonster, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 10:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    thats what i was thinking after i posted that

     

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  50.  
    identicon
    hothmonster, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 10:53am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I really really really hate map packs too. One of the reasons I stopped going near a lot of multiplayer games. You really start to fracture your playerbase by having maps that are restricted to people willing to pay more money. Also if you look at the price 15$ for 3 maps is that a 1/4 of the content of a new game? Activision truly does have fucking people down to an art.

     

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  51.  
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    freak (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 11:09am

    Well, this comments thread has been interesting and I learned/got corrected on a few things. As opposed to the article, which felt ill-informed.

    Thanks, guys.

     

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  52.  
    identicon
    Lord Binky, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 11:41am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Maybe that's true now, but 10-15 years ago at game retailers like Babbages the used games bin was a 4x4x1 box on a stand. I don't know what changed in the pricing structure to force used games being a requirement for a profitable retailer. I would blame the publishers for that though. If they really wanted to kill used games, they would sell the game to the retailer for less, maintain the retail price, and it would lower the incentive for the retailers to push used games. I could easily see that not takeing much since it would take risk off of the retailers and give them more profit, which in turn would give the publisher higher profits even with lowered prices since more first hand games are being sold.

     

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  53.  
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    hothmonster, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 11:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Something may have changed, which might be why babbages ended up going under. I think those store used to get by on the accessories market which have always had a much higher markup for retailers also the major retailers(wal-mart, best buy, circuit city) didn't really have the same stock as the specialty store like babbages and EB so if you wanted something that wasn't AAA right after release the smaller stores were you only option.

    Though I only remember babbages having a small selection of used games, the need to sell them increases exponentially with the stock you buy because every game you buy back is money lost until you turn it around. So the more Gamestop specializes in used games the more important it is for them to sell them, otherwise they end up with a warehouse full of un-sellable games in a few years. I'm sure somewhere in the US is a hanger just full of PS1 and sega cd games they wish they never bought.

     

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  54.  
    identicon
    hothmonster, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 11:52am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    " If they really wanted to kill used games, they would sell the game to the retailer for less, maintain the retail price, and it would lower the incentive for the retailers to push used games."

    Or better for everyone cut the cost of new games by about 20 bucks. People are more likely to buy new and you eliminate the profit margins for resellers. Gamestop can afford to buy a game for 20$ and sell it for 50$ but if they had to sell it for 30$ the risk wouldn't be worth it. Sure they could offer less $ on the buyback but unless a game is shit most people will just hold onto it if they arnt getting over 10$

     

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  55.  
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    Allomancer (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 11:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "But that leads back to my original point. Why do we assume all devs/publisher did this maliciously and ripped out code originally planned to be part of the main game in order to make an extra dollar. Why is it never assumed that this was designed this way from the start and the only reason they let the devs make this was because it was planned to be DLC."

    Total straw man. We're not assuming all devs/publishers took out what was supposed to be in the main game, we're assuming this particular dev/publisher did it. And the reason we're assuming it was meant to be in the main game is because they told us from the beginning that it was going to be in the main game. We've been over this before. It wasn't until a week before release that they changed it up and let people know that playable Catwoman was "DLC."

    Now sure, it might very well be that they had planned this all along and were counting on it being just an extra. But if that's the case then it was definitely intentionally misleading advertising, and that might be even worse. I see no reason to let them off the hook if that's the case anyway.

    It's not like game devs haven't talked about their post-release DLC plans before the games launch before. Just about everybody does these days. And that's fine. If we know that such and such map pack for CoD or so and so extra mission for Borderlands is going to be extra and not included in the main game, that's fine. We can make our decision on whether or not we want to buy that content. The way Arkham City is doing it just makes it seem like they're trying to pull one over on us.

     

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  56.  
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    John Fenderson (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 12:55pm

    Re: Re:

    Bluntly, I like the content creators more than the middle man since that is who will create the next item of interest for me.


    Me too, which is why I don't buy games produced by any of the major game houses but I do purchase games produced by independent developers and sold directly, or close to directly by them. Just like I do with music.

     

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  57.  
    identicon
    hothmonster, Oct 25th, 2011 @ 1:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "We've been over this before. It wasn't until a week before release that they changed it up and let people know that playable Catwoman was "DLC.""

    Well its free DLC (for first purchase, which everyone is on release day). But I do get your point and as I have said elsewhere in here, showing catwoman as your first playable footage and then at the last minute saying its only for new games is a pretty dick move. But it isnt the same as saying it day 1 DLC and everyone has to pay for it, which seems to be how you are looking at it.

    Im am not arguing to support the catwoman separation. Just working through a train of thought revolving around gamers being far too critical of any day 1 DLC and most really most DLC.

    While I personally hate online passes and find a lot of DLC to be a deplorable money grab I feel its become the norm to hate on any DLC despite the tremendous extra value this can provide to gamers if it is done right and with respect. Thank you for allowing me to start vocalizing that train of thought.

     

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  58.  
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    Allomancer (profile), Oct 25th, 2011 @ 1:38pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "While I personally hate online passes and find a lot of DLC to be a deplorable money grab I feel its become the norm to hate on any DLC despite the tremendous extra value this can provide to gamers if it is done right and with respect. Thank you for allowing me to start vocalizing that train of thought."

    Well, that is a separate discussion and you may very well have a point there. I've already articulated why I don't think the anger over this game is an overreaction, but there are certainly games that do DLC right.

     

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  59.  
    identicon
    Bob, Dec 27th, 2011 @ 3:51pm

    wow

    I didn't get the codes so that's just plain unfair that other people get it and I have to cough up extra cashd

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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