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How Sweden Dismantled Many Of Its Online Civil Rights At The Orders Of US Content Industries

from the sad-to-see dept

People who talk about copyright policy and some of the things going on around the globe, often talk about how various governments' decisions appear to be direct-on-order from Hollywood and the legacy US entertainment industry. And, to some extent, that sounds crazy conspiratorial to think that Hollywood and the MPAA would be so involved in domestic policies that impact innovation around the globe. But as some are noting, this "nutjobby" theory is now actually looking like clear fact, at least in the case of Sweden. This has all come out thanks to the State Department cable dumps, which basically show that pretty much Sweden's entire strategy in pushing through bad laws that take away civil rights and privacy online were direct from the US entertainment industry, weakly laundered through the US State Department, who merely passed along Hollywood's orders to the Swedish government... backed up with the threat of trade sanctions. What's really amazing is that the diplomats in the State Department never seem to consider whether or not they should be protecting a few big entertainment companies, rather than the best interests of citizens around the globe. It's such a short term view, as well, because wiping out civil rights elsewhere will come back to haunt the US. But as long as the MPAA's members keep getting paid...


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  1.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 7:26pm

    "And, to some extent, that sounds crazy conspiratorial to think that Hollywood and the MPAA would be so involved in domestic policies that impact innovation around the globe."

    What's crazier is the notion that copy protection laws should last around a century or so. Insane. Our very own laws evidence the fact that big corporations control the government.

     

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  2.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Sep 6th, 2011 @ 7:34pm

    Have we not caused enough problems in the last century with our foriegn policy?
    We propped up dictators, sold them the weapons and tools to be better dictators, and then when it was convenient we swoop in a deliver democracy as the be all end all panacea to their problems.

    Now we have proof to what many people were saying that we export censorship and the removal of others civil rights privately while pretending our morals are much to high to allow these things to happen in the world.

    How is it that Hollywood has all of this power, they are loosing trillions of dollars and somehow still manage to scrape together enough cash to fund their favorite congresscritters who try to pass insane bills on their behalf.

    When is someone going to bring Democracy to the US? I hear its a wonderful thing, but I have yet to see it in action.

    Have we finally solved all of the problems facing the US so that we have the time and energy to devote to secretly crushing the rights of others around the globe?

    I must have missed that memo.

     

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  3.  
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    Jay (profile), Sep 6th, 2011 @ 7:42pm

    Hmmm... This explains exactly the reason why the US hadn't tried to prosecute the Pirate Bay so long ago. They had special plans for those four guys. I seem to remember something in regards to trying everything in the book to convict them. How well is that working out in taking blood from a turnip, MPAA?

     

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  4.  
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    fb39ca4 (profile), Sep 6th, 2011 @ 8:02pm

    I thought Sweden was a neutral country.

     

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  5.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 8:11pm

    Hypocrisy

    "Now we have proof to what many people were saying that we export censorship and the removal of others civil rights privately while pretending our morals are much to high to allow these things to happen in the world."

    Hypocrisy will get you hated. Learn the lesson, Americans. Remember it when you are asking yourselves the question, "Why do they hate us?"

     

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  6.  
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    That Anonymous Coward (profile), Sep 6th, 2011 @ 8:19pm

    Re: Hypocrisy

    Please don't blame all of us. Not all of us drink the koolaid and support these actions.
    Not enough people can look past the end of their own noses to see how what is happening is wrong.

     

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  7.  
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    out_of_the_blue, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 8:19pm

    Welcome to Capitalism 101: Chapter 1, Money Corrupts.

    Doesn't at all work as your long-haired perfessers said, Mike. It's all corrupt, top to bottom.

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 8:32pm

    Re:

    Other countries learned from the 2 big players too(ex-USSR and the USA) how to deal arms to dictators, Libyan forces were using Brazilian made anti-personnel mines and advanced Chinese weaponry.

    Even Russia don't want to sell military equipment to the Chinese anymore because they become so good at reverse engineering.

    The thing is, as China and Brazil have no power to harm others financially they do business and don't make crazy demands in return, unless of course you are in the East China Sea then the Chinese will sunk your boats and all those ex-communist states get cozy with the USA.

    That may be a good thing for the USA since all the money is shifting to Asia now, but it will be bad for imaginary property since clearly there will be no leverage to force others to do anything, the USA will end up being the Japanese in the 70's when the USA government demanded a lot and the Japanese just acquiesced to every demand they made.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 8:37pm

    Re: Re: Hypocrisy

    You see, it doesn't matter, it is human nature to lump everything together besides the American government is manned by American citizens that sprung up from inside a society that produced that kind of people.

    Lumping together in this case is not ridiculous is the normal.

    People won't sort out the few individuals that disagree.

     

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  10.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 9:12pm

    " But as long as the MPAA's members keep getting paid..."

    Or rather as long as they keep getting what they ask for, which seems to have no effect on whether they get paid or not.
    Despite their willingness to push for what they want using lots and lots of actual money in the hope that some of their pretend money will make the leap to reality if only the right laws were in place.

     

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  11.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 9:29pm

    And yet the RIAA members keep giving the public free music.

    "Providing free music to more than 750 million people (assuming Facebook Music launches globally) seems like a no-brainer: Why wouldn't everyone in the world want to listen to and share free music with friends? This is the web equivalent of giving away free ice cream."
    http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/06/tech/social-media/facebook-music-service/index.html

    Fa cebook the new paradise for music piracy.

    Now I will go back to my Icecast.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icecast

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 9:35pm

    "weakly laundered". Wow.

    Have you considered for a second that the "content industries" (including software and all that) are what the US is all about in industry these days? Have you considered that, just like any country, the government stands up for what is actually working and making money in the economy?

    It is, after all, what governments do.

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 9:41pm

    What's really amazing is that the diplomats in the State Department never seem to consider whether or not they should be protecting a few big entertainment companies, rather than the best interests of citizens around the globe.

    Hmmmm, protect the second largest US export or the right of "citizens around the globe" to get it for free. Sounds like they're doing their job. Maybe State thinks that it represents the interests of the US rather than the best interests of foreigners. Just a thought. Just give me a sec to don my Tyvek suit before the new business model/connect with fans/free speech shit comes belching forth from the usual buttholes.

     

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  14.  
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    Jay (profile), Sep 6th, 2011 @ 9:57pm

    Re:

    Right, because Operation send money to the US will really work so well for any other country, besides the US.

    Thumbs up good buddy for quality trolling.

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 10:18pm

    Re: Re:

    Torrent Freak and Torrent Mike both have the same issues with economics. Quoting them for "truth" isn't exactly helping you out here.

     

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  16.  
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    Geof, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 10:34pm

    Throwing Detroit under the bus

    Anonymous Coward: "But it's in our interests" is hardly an moral justification for bullying other countries. By that logic you should have no beef with those who infringe copyright to save money, or countries that don't respect American ideas of IP.

    Regardless, the U.S. dependency on extreme IP is no accident. Here's what Bruce Lehman, architect of the DMCA, has to say about it (quoted from RiP: A Remix Manifesto):

    in much of the world we live in a sea of piracy, and you know you can have sympathy for developing countries but we made a deal. . . . if you go to a shopping mall in this country you cannot buy anything made in the United States anymore, it all comes from China or some other place like that. Well, the reason for that is that we’ve completely opened up our markets. It was a conscious decision to basically abandon low wage manufacturing jobs, and the idea is that we would compensate for that with higher wage high-tech information more intangible-based jobs.


    Say I buy a toy car at Wal-Mart. I could buy a generic car for a dollar or so, but my son wants Lighting McQueen from Cars. McQueen costs three to four times as much. Either one nets only pennies for the Chinese manufacturer that actually makes the toy (because it has no monopoly and must actually compete), but McQueen brings in several times that much in license fees for Disney.

    That is the sort of inequity the U.S. government tried to lock in by exporting maximalist IP laws. By securing its advantage in knowledge industries, like film making and finance, the top people in those industries could profit while workers elsewhere slave away for pennies. Amazingly, no-one likes being relegated to the bottom of the heap. China, just like the 19th century U.S. (and unlike smaller countries like Sweden, Spain, Canada or Korea) is picking and choosing how it applies copyright. Meanwhile, many formerly middle-class American workers, who had nothing to do with this scheme, see their jobs shipped overseas and blame the Chinese. They're blaming the wrong people.

     

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  17.  
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    Jay (profile), Sep 6th, 2011 @ 10:45pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    That's Joe Karaganis.

    Or have you not heard of his 3 year research book?

    Ok, I guess a link to the same info on his site might work then.

     

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  18.  
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    The eejit (profile), Sep 6th, 2011 @ 11:17pm

    Re:

    It doesn't even represent the interests of its own people very well. So why it should bully other people when Sweden is more economically sound than America is completely beyoine me.

     

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  19.  
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    Jeffrey Nonken (profile), Sep 6th, 2011 @ 11:21pm

    Re: Re: Hypocrisy

    Quite so. Exporting stupidity may be a national sport, but not all of us play.

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 11:38pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    That's clearly commie garbage from a communist.

    Can we hear something from a true American?

     

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  21.  
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    Jay (profile), Sep 6th, 2011 @ 11:42pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 6th, 2011 @ 11:58pm

    Re:

    You mean like Iran, China, Lybia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia?

    That is just inspiring.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 12:00am

    Re:

     

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  24.  
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    PaulT (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 12:01am

    Re: Welcome to Capitalism 101: Chapter 1, Money Corrupts.

    So he should sit back and not talk about it then?

    Christ, even when you admit he's right, you idiots can't stop attacking him...

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 12:14am

    Re:

    "protect the second largest US export"

    Nope, according to the BBC:

    Main exports of USA: Computers and electrical machinery, vehicles, chemical products, food and live animals, military equipment and aircraft

    Notice that there is no mention of movies or music. Those industries are small and economically insignificant. Also notice that the things which were mentioned as significant are mostly manufactured goods. Manufacturing is moving to China and other places free of patent trolls. USA faces economic difficulties for the foreseeable future.

     

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  26.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 12:28am

    http://torrentfreak.com/lawyer-refuses-to-tell-court-how-profitable-bittorrent-settlements-are-11090 5/

    I wonder why, lawyers for the industry don't get imprisoned for contempt of court, or get disbarred these days.

     

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  27.  
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    PaulT (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 1:13am

    Re:

    "the second largest US export "

    Citation needed.

    "the right of "citizens around the globe" to get it for free"

    I'm more than happy to pay for it. The industry's own moronic rules means I'm often not allowed to.

    "Maybe State thinks that it represents the interests of the US rather than the best interests of foreigners."

    You're happy to interfere with the laws of other countries just to protect your own pockets? No wonder people hate you.

    "Just give me a sec to don my Tyvek suit before the new business model/connect with fans/free speech shit comes belching forth from the usual buttholes."

    I'm sorry if truth and logic offend you so much.

     

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  28.  
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    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 1:34am

    Re: Have you considered for a second that the "content industries" (including software and all that) are what the US is all about in industry these days?

    Contribution to US GDP in 2010:

    * private industries (agriculture, mining, utilities etc): 86.6%
    * manufacturing: 11.7%
    * finance, insurance, real estate etc: 21.1%
    * arts, entertainment, recreation, accommodation and food services (this would include the companies represented by the RIAA and MPAA: 3.6%
    * information-communications technology: 4.7%

    Any questions?

    Source: Bureau of Economic Analysis, US Dept of Commerce.

     

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  29.  
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    The eejit (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 1:52am

    Re:

    They'd probably sue for Employment Infringement.

     

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  30.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 2:32am

    Re: Re:

    That is not that bad, the bad is they probably win.

     

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  31.  
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    Wilhelm Reuch, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 4:13am

    It is hard to beleive that this horse is not dead yet. Most people have no truoble paying content creators. The exception are the net oldtimers who still thinks it is 1995. The entertainment industry is also part of society and as long as we have a free market economy they (like anyone else that menufactures and market goods) have a right to be protected against pirates.

    The "freetard" community have been crying about new business models and whatever for over 20 years now but has managed to show absolutely nothing short of a dream of pure stalinism.

    Sweden have not given up anything. They are part of the market and they weigh their priorities. If the "freetard" community had anything to show their argument would be listened to as well - but as it stands they have nothing and they are pretty much ignored.

     

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  32.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 4:27am

    Re:

    "The entertainment industry is also part of society and as long as we have a free market economy they (like anyone else that menufactures and market goods) have a right to be protected against pirates."

    Actually, in free market capitalism theory, piracy would count as "competition". And, as per the same theory, you only have two choices when faced with competition: adapt or die.

    Free markets don't need government intervention (that's why they are "free markets"), therefore, the concepts of copyright and patents are totally irrelevant to them.

     

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  33.  
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    listenClosely, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 5:19am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You never hear the one that gets you.

     

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  34.  
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    Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 6:31am

    Re:

    the second largest US export

    I know you guys like to make numbers up but c'mon!?

     

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  35.  
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    Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 6:35am

    Re:

    The "freetard" community have been crying about new business models and whatever for over 20 years now but has managed to show absolutely nothing short of a dream of pure stalinism.

    Why is it the "freetard" community that needs to figure out how to make money for a legacy industry when it becomes obsolete?

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 6:41am

    Re: Re:

    Actually, in free market capitalism theory, piracy would count as "competition". And, as per the same theory, you only have two choices when faced with competition: adapt or die.

    How do you compete with someone who markets the exact same product it cost you $100 million (or whatever) to produce but cost them $0? And please spare me the connect with fans bullshit.

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 6:43am

    Re: Re:

    Actually, in free market capitalism theory, piracy would count as "competition". And, as per the same theory, you only have two choices when faced with competition: adapt or die.

    How do you compete with someone who markets the exact same product it cost you $100 million (or whatever) to produce but cost them $0? And please spare me the connect with fans bullshit.

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 6:51am

    Why do we even bother to have diplomats if their job is to just act as a lobbyist for our own corrupt lobbyists in foreign countries? The lobbyists can just do that themselves.

    Oh right, because politicians have to name top donors diplomats to all the unimportant countries (as in pretty much all foreign countries except the ones we've invaded in the last decade) to pay them back. After all who better represents the USA then a rich millionare who donated millions of dollars to the president and his political party.

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 6:51am

    Re: Re: Have you considered for a second that the "content industries" (including software and all that) are what the US is all about in industry these days?

    remind us again which one the software industry falls under?

    This isn't about all IP, not just about music and movies.

     

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  40.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 6:53am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    As soon as Torrent Freak added " Karaganis is also responsible for the most objective and elaborate piracy study to date.", I pretty much figured out the deal.

    They agree with his conclusions, therefore they quote him and allow him to post.

    Not really a big deal. Mike lets Marcus and the two Tims post here too, not because they are right, but because he agrees with them.

     

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  41.  
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    PaulT (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 7:08am

    Re: Re: Re: Have you considered for a second that the "content industries" (including software and all that) are what the US is all about in industry these days?

    "remind us again which one the software industry falls under"

    Presumably, that would be "information-communications technology", which only accounts for 4.7% of GDP. That makes 8.3% in total, yet you claim that "the "content industries" (including software and all that) are what the US is all about in industry these days".

    There might be other elements of the software industry accounted for in the other sections, but taking this to the #1 on the list? Unlikely. But, I wouldn't expect you to sully your assertions with facts and figures instead of blind assumptions. They usually fall apart when you apply those.

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 7:10am

    Re: Hypocrisy

    "Why do they hate us?"

    Please don't hate me because I'm so beautiful.

     

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  43.  
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    PaulT (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 7:13am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "How do you compete with someone who markets the exact same product it cost you $100 million (or whatever) to produce but cost them $0?"

    If your business totally depends on selling an infinitely reproducible good in exactly the same form as anybody else on the planet can supply it, you have already failed. If you took your head out of your arse for 2 seconds, you might ask yourself questions. Things like: how is it that when piracy is supposedly at an all time high, so is the money being made by the entertainment industry? Box office records have been broken when the product is available for $0. According to you this is impossible, and yet here we are...

    "And please spare me the connect with fans bullshit."

    Yes, we probably should since you've proven many times that actually communicating with people and listening to what they say is totally beyond you.

     

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  44.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 7:14am

    It takes two...

    I can hardly believe that the Sweden's government(s) are just blindly executing orders by Hollywood and the MPAA. There must be elemtens within Sweden's goverment, parlament and society who have a real interest in taking away civil rights and privacy online.

    By using the suggestions/demands of the US State Department they certainly have a way to convince the clueless amongst them to vote for the "right" thing.

     

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  45.  
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    IronM@sk, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 7:19am

    Re:

    That was Switzerland.

     

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  46.  
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    Jay (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 7:31am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    There are plenty of other guests and in fact, Mike has had other people post here:

    Kevin Donovan

    Cario Longino

    Derek Kerton

    In recent memory, there was also the patent lawyer who discussed why people should pay up on patents. And you know what? I didn't agree, but then again seeing as how there's problems with the patent system in general, no one else did either.

    "They agree with his conclusions, therefore they quote him and allow him to post."

    So let's get this straight. You can't fight and argue the validity of the post. Any research into the piracy debate is lost on you because you can't be arsed to read and come to your own conclusions. Even if the fact that the issue of commercial interests and public interests have diverged because of digital technology, it's not a good topic because "oh, well Mike, Tim(2), and Joe Karaganis happen to have a similar viewpoint based on economic data."

    Not only am I disappointed, you've just gained my pity. That's quite the limiting stance.

     

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  47.  
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    Jay (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 7:34am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "How do you compete with someone who markets the exact same product it cost you $100 million (or whatever) to produce but cost them $0?"

    How did the MPAA compete against the VCR that was "strangling" them?

     

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  48.  
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    rubberpants, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 8:15am

    Re:

    We hear that talking point all the time, that "Intellectual Property" is the most important thing America does and is the wave of the future. Do you have any evidence that's the case or are you just parroting the line the industry has been feeding to the government to try and get more monopoly privileges?

     

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  49.  
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    rubberpants, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 8:27am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Firstly, no you don't have a "right" to make a profit from any particular activity, but you can sure try. If you can't make money doing what you want then join the club. I still can't live off the sculptures I make from my own feces. Should the government step in and pass laws that allow me to profit handsomely from that activity?

    Secondly, industry profits have never been higher. But that's not enough for you, is it?

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 8:48am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Jay, I can argue the validity of the post up and down. But rather than picking nits (which usually ends up with a war of misunderstood words with Mike), I think it is much more useful to look at the post in context of Mike's beliefs and understandings.

    More and more the US is a service and IP oriented country. More and more jobs depend on it, more and more jobs are created by it, etc. Would you not think that the US should stand up for it's growing industries?

    Do you think that Sweden is a net IP creator or consumer? Their motivations as a net consumer would be different from the US which is a net creator.

    It isn't any different between the business models and choices of content providers versus the business models and choices of pirate site owners. The pirate site owners want copyright abolished, it helps them. The copyright holders want the laws enforced and strengthened. It would be silly for a pirate site to be supporting copyright, wouldn't it?

    Can you be "arsed" to consider what motivates the posts, the content, and such? Can you be "arsed" to consider that the story is covered not because it is the truth, but because it supports the view?

    The guest list still reads like either supporters of anti-copyright moves, or supporters of "new" business models that Mike likes. Otherwise, they wouldn't be here.

    Dissent? Please check the Bloomberg thread for today. It's reached a point where it appears that a Techdirt staffer is busy trying to troll me. Talk about shouting down an opinion. Do you support that Jay?

     

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  51.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 9:02am

    This is true everywhere around the world. The information protection industry (RIAA, MPAA, Monsanto, Microsoft, etc) bribes US politicians through campaign finance, and then the politicians direct the state department to employ these regimes- even to isolate, watchlist, and even sanction countries that disagree. Direct visits of industry officials to the legislatures and academia of various countries have been also arranged by the state department. @sufficiencymaf on twitter- im running a feed on my cable dive.

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 9:10am

    Re: Re:

    From the American University website:

    "The US is the largest cultural exporter in the world with entertainment
    as the second-largest US export industry, after aerospace.


    http://www1.american.edu/ted/cmtvcan.htm

    Pointing out that you are full of shit is becoming a tiresome chore. Please do a basic search before claiming facts you don't like are made up.

     

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  53.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 9:15am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Certainly no one has a right to a profit. But no one has the right to profit from the creative content of another that they didn't pay fr either. There are plenty of movies that don't make a profit. That isn't the issue.... unless of course you are a freeloader who simply doesn't believe he has to pay. Good luck with your sculpting career. Don't forget to connect with your fans and give them a reason to buy.

     

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  54.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 9:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "But rather than picking nits... I think it is much more useful to look at the post in context of Mike's beliefs and understandings."

    In other words: "I refuse to discuss specifics because I'm so often proven wrong, or confronted when I refuse to provide evidence for my claims. So, I'll just discuss what I think Mike's position is without having to delve into pesky facts or evidence, then bail when I'm confronted anyway ready for the next thread."

    "The guest list still reads like either supporters of anti-copyright moves, or supporters of "new" business models that Mike likes. Otherwise, they wouldn't be here."

    "Guest list" = anyone who wishes to post on a free message board.

    The opinions of myself (I can't speak for anyone else's opinion = "I don't like a lot of what's being done and would like to discuss / read more. Techdirt is a good place to start". It's just a shame so many of the regular dissenters add nothing of value to the other side of the conversation.

    "a Techdirt staffer is busy trying to troll me"

    a) Name names, perhaps? Who do you think is a staffer?

    b) Who are you? There's a lot of ACs there, how do I identify you?

     

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  55.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 9:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Haha

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 9:36am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Holy fuck is that sad.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 9:39am

    Re: Re:

    Because the kings of creativity are actually bereft of ideas.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 10:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    @Jay

    "How do you compete with someone who markets the exact same product it cost you $100 million (or whatever) to produce but cost them $0?"

    How did the MPAA compete against the VCR that was "strangling" them?

    Just as I thought. You have no answer. The Lord High Apologist will not be pleased.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 10:19am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The answer lies in the question you dodged. Try again.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 10:35am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    No answer to my more detailed response, but a quick pithy comment to the next commenter. Just so you can throw in a side swipe at Mike without having to elaborate on any facts?

    Par for the course, I believe.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Sep 7th, 2011 @ 12:17pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    " I can argue the validity of the post up and down. "

    Please do. Right now, it seems that you're trying to weasel out of the argument by being as vague as possible.

    "More and more the US is a service and IP oriented country. More and more jobs depend on it, more and more jobs are created by it, etc. Would you not think that the US should stand up for it's growing industries?"

    Uhm... No. It seems you're going the vague route. Let's put some specifics in there. "US as a service industry" means providing authorized (we'll skip the legal argument since this is an economic issue) means to access content for movies and music. Consumers, be they in the US or around the world, can choose their way to access content depending on their preferences. That's providing a service.

    More jobs depend on it? If you're talking about enforcement, then you're wrong. The CBO shows it costs $10 million to run this special enforcement. It will have 22 new agents and 26 support staff for all of the paperwork. This is them running around on Google, pointing to "infringements" and enforcing copyright law for Hollywood. And since ICE will want to start arresting people like they did Brian McCarthy (who made $18000 in 5 years) or 19 yr old Ali (who made a little more than that), then you have to put their wages from their regular jobs before their arrest into the number of taxable income that the government loses to having to house those criminals. Enforcement := more jobs.

    "Would you not think that the US should stand up for it's growing industries?"

    If the US government can't help the situation (such as with IP law) it needs to stay as far away from those industries as possible. Laissez-faire means they stay OUT of the economy because the government supporting their hand picked winners and losers makes American society worse off.

    "Do you think that Sweden is a net IP creator or consumer? Their motivations as a net consumer would be different from the US which is a net creator."

    They're both. Most content creators are also consumers depending on what they're doing. So what's your point?

    "It isn't any different between the business models and choices of content providers versus the business models and choices of pirate site owners. The pirate site owners want copyright abolished, it helps them. The copyright holders want the laws enforced and strengthened. It would be silly for a pirate site to be supporting copyright, wouldn't it?"

    I have no idea what you're trying to say here. You're putting a huge strawman in your argument by suggesting that a pirate site won't support copyright and judging from your previous statement, it seems that you're saying Sweden won't support copyright along these lines. And given that the export of the US was a lot of bullying by the MPAA and US government to change Sweden's laws against civil rights, it's putting your argument in a downward spiral.

    "Can you be "arsed" to consider what motivates the posts, the content, and such? Can you be "arsed" to consider that the story is covered not because it is the truth, but because it supports the view?"

    Can you be "arsed" to stop using strawmans for your argument and debate or is it simply un"arse"ceptable to consider that people can come to a conclusion that copyright enforcement won't make consumers buy products and services that don't work for them?

    " It's reached a point where it appears that a Techdirt staffer is busy trying to troll me. Talk about shouting down an opinion. Do you support that Jay?"

    Who's a Techdirt staffer? And who are you? Unless you can be "arsed" to put up a link to the Bloomberg thread in question, I have no idea who you are. And where did this "dissent?" question come from?

     

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  62.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 1:34pm

    @Jay

    "Do you think that Sweden is a net IP creator or consumer? Their motivations as a net consumer would be different from the US which is a net creator."

    They're both. Most content creators are also consumers depending on what they're doing. So what's your point?

    Passing yet another milepost along the Herp Derp Highway.

    You can't be both a net consumer and creator of a good/service. The word "net" represents the difference between the two. Like the US is a net exporter of food, even though import food as well.

     

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  63.  
    identicon
    fucking tired of it, Sep 7th, 2011 @ 10:23pm

    nutjobby

    Go fuck yourself Mike. I am so sick and tired of assholes trying to discredit others with the conspiracy label. As if they dont happen. They do, all the time.
    "This has all come out thanks to the State Department cable dumps" And many many more that you dont find about. Unless it is on Fox "News" they wont believe you.

    "in the case of Sweden" Yeah just keep thinking it is other countries. - Fucking fools.

    "rather than the best interests of citizens" - You see toolies, THEY DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU AND I. Just the assholes that line their pockets with cash. Its fucking time to get armed and take to the streets of Washington. But that will never happen. A cowoker of mine explaned it perfectly. We are in survival mode. Doing what we can to make ends meet, and feed our families. We dont have time to worry about much else. As planned. But we are just conspiracy theorists. Fuck you all. We are right and you are too dumb to notice. This blog just follows tech. There is much more to the final picture that a small amount of the populace notice and try to explain to others. But the lemming mentallity has clouded the general populaces ability to think clearly. Go fucking watch Faux news while I teach my children to handle a firearm proficiently. Sad but true, they will need it. G'night lemmings.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    known coward, Sep 8th, 2011 @ 7:25am

    well i would say that the state dept does have an obligation to support US industries in foreign lands so in that sense they are doing their jobs, Whether using a bludgeon of threats and sanctions as opposed to suggestions is another issue. A third issue would be should these laws even exist in the first place. But as it stands now the state department should be supporting US interests.

    Another point Do we really need to use the term “freetard”? It really makes you look like a class A jackass when using it. For very understandable reasons, the community of mentally challenged folks, have asked that we not use “tard” or retard as a demeaning comment. if you can not respect the mentally challenged it does not say much for you as a human being.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 8th, 2011 @ 1:03pm

    Re: Re: Have you considered for a second that the "content industries" (including software and all that) are what the US is all about in industry these days?

    Why do your percentages add up to 127.7% ??
    Couldn't you at least make up ones that add to 100% !
    And if IP is such a small slice of the pie why make such a big fking deal out of it!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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