Homeland Security Working Hard To Make Sure No One Wants To Use .com Or .net Domains

from the are-they-insane? dept

Remember Erik Barnett? He's the deputy director of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) unit, who seems to have a way with words. He's the guy who admitted that Homeland Security was censoring websites because entertainment companies asked them to. He's also the guy who lied about whether or not anyone was challenging domain seizures when he knew those challenges were underway.

Now he's out trying to defend the ridiculously short-sighted decision by the US government try to extradite Richard O'Dwyer from the UK, for running the site TVshack, despite it almost certainly being legal in the UK. According to Barnett, none of that seems to matter, because O'Dwyer was using a .net.
"The jurisdiction we have over these sites right now really is the use of the domain name registry system in the United States. That's the key."

The only necessary "nexus to the US" is a .com or .net web address for which Verisign acts as the official registry operator, he said.
That's the key, but it's also ridiculous and stupidly self-damaging for the US. On a jurisdictional basis, there are a variety of different factors that people use to determine what the proper jurisdiction is, and relying solely on the registry, thus making all .com and .net (among other) domains US property, is simply ridiculous. Almost anyone thinking about it would realize that if a site is run by someone in the UK and hosted on servers in the UK, it's silly and counter-factual to claim that it's really US property.

Of course, the end result of this will be to drive more and more foreigners away from using US domain names. None of this will do anything to stop infringement, which Barnett seems to think is his job. But it will harm American companies (the ones he claims he's trying to help) by getting foreign internet users to stay away from them due to the liability that some hotshot in the Justice Department suddenly decides he or she wants to pull someone from their home and ship them to the US to face criminal charges on something that may have been completely legal where they're from.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    el_segfaulto (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:37am

    Silver lining...

    Obviously this is idiotic. But a company that I've been consulting with has been unable to procure the golden ".com" tld for their domain. If this continues and the general public starts to recognize that legitimate sites can end with a .co, .cc, etc. then we may be able to starve some domain squatters out of existence.

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:46am

    So when is techdirt going to move to .p2p or .hidinginanothercountry ?

     

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  3.  
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    Yogi, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:46am

    Stay away

    My wife is a musician and she is building her own web site - I already told her informed her not to host with any American company and I guess I'll add this piece of advice as well.

    It looks like the United States is going to be like the former Soviet Union, at least in regards to all things internet - free thinking, creative people will just stay away.

     

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  4.  
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    DannyB (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:46am

    Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    Is the domain name issue really just an excuse to extradite?

    If he had used a .uk domain, would dinosaur US businesses have merely contrived a different excuse to have their private police force extradite a foreign citizen?

     

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  5.  
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    MrWilson, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:47am

    Re: Silver lining...

    Domain squatters are almost already starved out of existence. The only people who can pay their exorbitant rates are big companies, which means squatters can't just squat on generic names, but must anticipate potential product names. i-anything names seemed to have been a good bet years ago, but the problem is that with newer web technologies and user interfaces, no one needs to remember URLs anymore. How many URLs just redirect anyway? Not to mention that we have QR codes and clickable links everywhere. The breadth of available TLDs already makes a .com address pointless for anyone not launching a big product or service or ad campaign.

     

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  6.  
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    John Doe, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:47am

    Can you say one world government?

    Sure, I thought you could.

    If all you have to do is use a domain name that a foreign country is the registrar for in some way that is illegal in the foreign country to subject yourself to that countries laws, then we are creating a very slippery slope.

     

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  7.  
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    DannyB (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:48am

    Re:

    Why do you suppose TD would need to do so?

    Because you would secretly like our free discussion here to be illegal? Or whether or not illegal, you would like to use your private police force to harass this site?

     

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  8.  
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    John Doe, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:50am

    Re: Stay away

    Not so fast. By using a foreign domain she, by the US government standards, will be subjecting herself to that countries laws. She may actually do time in a Turkish prison.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:50am

    Re: Re:

    If .com and .net are so bad, why not lead by example?

     

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  10.  
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    Anonymous Poster, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:53am

    Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    Yes.

     

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  11.  
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    Adam, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:53am

    I'm really glad that I went to the trouble some years ago to get a .ca domain name (Canada, not California, BTW)

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:58am

    Re: Re:

    Actually, he's right. Your response presupposes that only "illegal" discussions need to be worried.

    This isn't about things being *actually* illegal, it's about pissing off the wrong lobby organization.

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:01pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    I like you, you don't let little things like the words in an article effect what you think the article is about.

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:03pm

    Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    Domains are a jurisdictional issue, as are the location of servers, ownership, and the location of the actual site owner.

    Too many questionable sites play the jurisdiction game, ignoring that the internet is available in all of those jurisdictions. Having a .com domain and making the material available in the US means that you not only have one prong, but now you have potentially have two.

    If it was on a .UK domain, they still could push on the issue of making the site available to US consumers (especially if he accepted payments from Americans, or if he sold advertising to American companies, example).

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:04pm

    Re:

    i thought it stood for candyland

     

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  16.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:11pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I like you, you don't let little things like the words in an article effect what you think the article is about.


    I think this may be my favorite comment of the day.

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:13pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I don't let little things like whining by the choir stop me from making the point: If .com is so bad, when is techdirt moving?

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:15pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I MUST BE CHARLIE SHEEN CAUSE I'M WINNING TECHDIRT TODAY!!!!

     

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  19.  
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    AJ, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:16pm

    Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    "If it was on a .UK domain, they still could push on the issue of making the site available to US consumers"

    So if a company makes it site available to US consumers, they should fall under US jurisdiction? Are you a complete idiot? The internet is global, with few exceptions, and using your logic, anyone could potentially fall under almost any jurisdiction.

    If something that you post here on TD is illegal in France, and what you wrote is available in France, then you should have to answer to the French authorities (If they happen not to surrender to you)?

     

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  20.  
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    ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:17pm

    Re: Re: Stay away

    What's Iceland's TLD?

    Seriously, as an American I'm dumbfounded to see this crap happening.

     

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  21.  
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    ArtificialReef, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:17pm

    Umm. Confused

    I don't get it... What does piracy have to do with immigration and customs? Someone emailing cuban cigars to relatives in Ohio?Huge waste of taxpayers money.

     

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  22.  
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    Rekrul, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:18pm

    Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    If it was on a .UK domain, they still could push on the issue of making the site available to US consumers (especially if he accepted payments from Americans, or if he sold advertising to American companies, example).

    I guess we then have to send everyone connected to Playboy.com, Penthouse.com and all the employees and models of every other adult site, to the middle east to face charges of violating their morality code, since they make the sites "available" to the people in that area.

    I wonder how well this idea of global prosecution will go over when they start stoning American women having made their x-rated images "available" in countries like Iran.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:22pm

    Re: Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    Actually, those countries have laws on that, and oblige their ISPs to block access. If you are a foreign company tried to force porn into the country, you could find yourself in a whole lot of hot water.

    Want to try? I dare you!

     

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  24.  
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    user, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:29pm

    domain names is just a start...

    If this sticks then next injunction will be against search providers to stop providing links to all external (international from US) websites, and then next one will be to the internet backbone companies to choke all traffic to these sites. An likely an attempt to access them will be criminally illegal.

    Welcome to great wall of Orwellian USA.

     

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  25.  
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    DannyB (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:35pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    You're right. He's right. I didn't consider that.

    That exactly points out why .com or .net domain names are so bad. A foreign site, hosted on foreign soil, that says anything that upsets a dinosaur US business, even if perfectly legal in its home country, is in danger of having its admin extradited to the US.

     

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  26.  
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    DannyB (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:39pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Presuming TD servers are on US soil, presuming TD admins are US citizens, then why could be accomplished by changing domain names?

    In fact, I propose that
    * a foreign citizen,
    * with a site on foreign soil,
    * with no connection to the US,
    * doing something perfectly legal in his home country,
    * NOT using a US domain name (eg, .com)
    would still be extradited on some trumped up notion of jurisdiction if he did anything that upsets a dinosaur business in the US. That US business would use its tax funded private police force and make up some new notion of jurisdiction.

    The domain name creating jurisdiction is just an excuse. A stretch that was desperately grasped for at that.

     

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  27.  
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    Gwiz (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I don't let little things like whining by the choir stop me from making the point: If .com is so bad, when is techdirt moving?

    Techdirt doesn't need to move. We are all fairly tech savoy here and have already placed Techdirt in our Hosts files. No need waste your time trying to stifle our speech here, we have already rerouted around you.

     

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  28.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:42pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    If .com is so bad, when is techdirt moving?

    No reading comprehension is a terrible affliction to have. I would suggest some bed rest and maybe seeing a doctor.

    No one has said that .coms are bad. We're saying that the US government's interpretation of jurisdiction is bad. And that may drive *foreign* website owners to go with different domains.

    None of that applies to us. And you know that. Or you're incapable of understanding basic concepts. I don't know which is worse.

     

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  29.  
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    Gwiz (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:46pm

    ...and then next one will be to the internet backbone companies to choke all traffic to these sites.

    Make me wonder if crowdsourcing communication satellites is possible.

     

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  30.  
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    Dahms (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:46pm

    re:re:re:re:

    Interesting. If I own American 'property' in the form of a .net domain, I wonder what rights I can claim? Could I maybe claim a green card? Really!

     

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  31.  
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    DannyB (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:48pm

    Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    The location of servers, their ownership and location of the site owner are jurisdiction issues.

    The domain name should not be, but will be twisted to be.

    So that being the only issue, what straw will you grasp for if the site had not used a .com domain?


    > making the material available in the US

    Oh, here we go with that again? When you put something on the internet, it is available to the world. The site owner can restrict visitors, but any requirement to do so is imposed by his home country, not by the US (or China, Iran, etc).

    Example: an MPAA spokeswoman makes a video of something official. It is put on MPAA website. You've now made it available in Iran, and -- gasp! -- she's not wearing a veil. The website owner(s) should be extradited to Iran to face charges.

    What I'm saying: just because Iran doesn't like it doesn't mean the MPAA website would have an obligation to block it by country. If Iran doesn't like what's on the Internet, they can block it at their borders. If the US doesn't like what's on a UK website, then we should create a great firewall of the US.

     

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  32.  
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    PaulT (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:59pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "If .com is so bad, when is techdirt moving?"

    ...because the only way to fight oppression is to run... *sigh* Why do you people seem to hate free speech so much?

    Oh, and the criticism here is that the moves will make the domains less desirable for non-US sites, with no real return. How does this affect a US-based site like Techdirt, exactly? Should Mike not state his opinion on the massive mistakes being made because he has a stake in it, or because he doesn't, I'm confused here...?

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 1:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Yes, but you are missing the point. If .com and .net are so bad, and the US is abusing them, why are you supporting them? Why not make the grand symbolic gesture, the sweeping move and become techdirt.ru, techdirt.kp or techdirt.cu?

    I mean hey, why not be a shining example of standing up for your foreign friends, rather than just pointing the finger and then continuing to pay for the system to exist?

     

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  34.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 1:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Stay away

    As an American I'm dumbfounded you can't figure out what a country's TLD is.

     

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  35.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 1:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Me: "No one has said that .coms are bad."

    You: "Yes, but you are missing the point. If .com and .net are so bad..."

    Must we say anything else?

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 1:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: Stay away

    Iceland TLD's won't help at all. ICE will just make it a trademark issue.

     

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  37.  
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    RD, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 1:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The real story:

    TD: "No one has said that .coms are bad."

    ShillTroll: "Yes, but you are missing the point. I am trying to make MY point and have YOU defend its opposite even though you clearly and repeatedly state you didnt say such a thing. So to continue, If .com and .net are so bad..."

     

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  38.  
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    The Groove Tiger (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 1:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    U S A!
    U S A!
    U S A!
    U S A!

     

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  39.  
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    Thomas (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 1:55pm

    TSA has become..

    simply a tool for the entertainment industry, just like the rest of the DOJ. It used to be that the DOJ was concerned about the lives of americans, but now it's more concerned with profits of entertainment industry executives. TSA is more interesting in groping children and the elderly rather than catching people who actually sneak on board. Totally disgusting.

    With the DOJ now riddled with lawyers from the entertainment industry (after all, the entertainment industry expected payback for the millions in "campaign contributions") the trend is likely to continue.

    DOJ cares less about the lives of american citizens than it does about profits for executives who already earn millions.

     

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  40.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 2:06pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    *sigh*. Once again, playing word games and ignoring the question.

    If you think that this is wrong, and that the system is being abused, why are you continuing to support .com by renewing your domains and paying them?

    You have written posts here discussing alternate DNS and whatnot. Why not be a leader instead of just a voice and leave the .com system behind? If you dislike what it is coming to stand for, and how the US government is using it, why not move away from it?

    Can you answer that without playing word games?

     

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  41.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 2:29pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    *sigh*. Once again, playing word games and ignoring the question.


    I'm not the ones playing word games.

    If you think that this is wrong, and that the system is being abused, why are you continuing to support .com by renewing your domains and paying them?

    I didn't say that the .com system was wrong or being abused. I said that the US gov't's interpretation was wrong and would do more harm than good. That has nothing to do with the .com system.

    You have written posts here discussing alternate DNS and whatnot. Why not be a leader instead of just a voice and leave the .com system behind?


    You do realize that alternative DNS and the .com TLD are not the same thing, right?

    If you dislike what it is coming to stand for, and how the US government is using it, why not move away from it?

    When did I say I dislike .coms? I didn't. As I explained to you. Already. Twice (oops, make that three times).

    Can you answer that without playing word games?


    Can you just admit that I caught you showing a near total lack of reading skills? It's not hard. Here, we'll help:

    "Mike, I fucked up. I read something into your post that wasn't there. When caught, rather than just admit I made a mistake, I doubled down and pretended you still said something you did not say. When called on that again, I pretended it was you playing word games. That's all wrong. I was wrong and I'm sorry. I'll now go to another post and do the same thing."

     

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  42.  
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    Khstapp, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 2:39pm

    Shoe on the other foot

    I wonder how the US government will respond to the first extradition request of an American citizen to face charges of alleged illegal activity on a .cn or other non-US TLD?

     

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  43.  
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    Planespotter (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 2:48pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    C'mon surely Mikes post above must be the No.1 Funny and Insightful on Sunday, get voting... w00t w00t!

     

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  44.  
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    Planespotter (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 2:50pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Stay away

    isn't it .brrrrrrrrr!

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 2:51pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Let me attempt to answer (rationally).

    Mike is not saying that there is anything wrong with .com or .net. He's saying there is something wrong with ICE.

    His argument is that ICE should stop what it's doing or risk having foreign companies abandon .com and .net.

    Do you understand now?

     

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  46.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 2:52pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Dang, didn't see Mike's response because I had this sitting in my browser unrefreshed for the last 2 hours...

     

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  47.  
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    PaulT (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 3:02pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Why not make the grand symbolic gesture, the sweeping move and become techdirt.ru, techdirt.kp or techdirt.cu?"

    Ah, so you're one of those idiots? Those people who think that if you criticise the practices of the USA you must immediately be a communist and therefore an enemy of capitalism? That puts your posts into context but it doesn't make you look like any less of a moron.

    The cold war ended a long time ago, and many of the countries categorised by Fox as socialist are in fact as far away from communism as you can get. try education, it helps.

     

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  48.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 3:04pm

    On a related matter, a copyright supporter on deviantART claimed that because deviantART is a US site, if a foreign user of the site violates US copyright law in a criminal way, they can be "tried for the crime" per US laws.* What do you think of this claim? Personally, I think it's highly dubious.

    *damn-army.deviantart.com/blog/35143962/

     

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  49.  
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    Geeker (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 3:19pm

    If he is extradited from the UK (where it's not illegal) to face trumped up charges in the USA (manipulatively illegal, maybe), will the MPAA/RIAA et al; agree to cease & desist their region-locking and geo-tagging of all content worldwide ...Haaa, yeah right, like that's ever going to happen!

     

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  50.  
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    TDR, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 3:48pm

    Perhaps it's time we nuked Hollywood. Literally.

     

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  51.  
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    Nicedoggy, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 4:25pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    Why stop at porn, why not anything the government doesn't like.

    Lets become like Iran.

    Also I heard Iran is going to trial U.S. government officials ex-part, maybe they could issue a extradition note and make the U.S. comply then.

     

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  52.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 4:37pm

    Re: Re: Stay away

    That is easy: she can just use a domain from her own country. She is already subject to her own country's laws by virtue of living there, so even by the crazy US standards, it makes no difference.

     

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  53.  
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    Atkray (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 6:06pm

    Re:

    We have to wait until they release the next Harry Potter or my wife and kids will kill me.

     

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  54.  
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    btr1701 (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 6:51pm

    Wow

    > Almost anyone thinking about it would realize that if a site is
    > run by someone in the UK and hosted on servers in the UK, it's
    > silly and counter-factual to claim that it's really US property.

    The idea that the government believes that anything created in the US is US property should scare any sane person to the bone.

    Even if they have jurisdiction over Verisign, that doesn't make every domain created by it the property of the government. And if it were US property, that still doesn't matter when we're talking about charging the guy criminally, because the *actions* constituting the alleged crime itself happened in the UK.

     

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  55.  
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    btr1701 (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 6:58pm

    Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    > If it was on a .UK domain, they still could push on the issue
    > of making the site available to US consumers (especially if he
    > accepted payments from Americans, or if he sold advertising
    > to American companies, example).

    So basically if you put up a site on the internet which discusses the Nazis and the Holocaust in a way the Germans don't like, none of your 1st Amendment protections apply and you can be shipped off to Germany to stand trial?

    Or is this a case of "one set of rules for Americans, and another set for everyone else in the world"?

     

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  56.  
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    btr1701 (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 7:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    > Actually, those countries have laws on that, and oblige their
    > ISPs to block access.

    And yet those sites are still seen by people in those countries.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
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    btr1701 (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 7:14pm

    Re:

    Everything in that FAQ, from claiming that Fair Use isn't really in the law (it most certainly is, right there in the US Code, along with all the elements necessary to establish a Fair Use defense) to the admonition that anyone who joins the site suddenly becomes subject to US law and can be fined and jailed for things which may be perfectly legal in a person's country of residency. The latter statement is so inaccurate, it's practically a flat-out lie.

     

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  58.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 7:59pm

    I thought .us was the US domain

    I have a .com domain but I didn't use a US company to get it. I used an Australian based registrar. Just because .com is ultimately handled by a US company should not enable the US govt to claim jurisdiction. This legally could lead to all sorts of strange decisions and over reaching.

    I was under the impression that .com, .net and the other big seven TLDs are for use world-wide (not country defined). Isn't .us the United States domain?

    As a non-US based person it really bugs me when I see tiny US companies use .com domains instead of the obvious .com.us

     

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  59.  
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    bordy (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 8:13pm

    Re: Re:

    No difference, I have full confidence my government would attempt to have you extradited from Candyland.

     

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  60.  
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    G Thompson (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 8:21pm

    Re: Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    For the answer ask yourself, When was the last time an American, any American, was ever extradited to a foreign jurisdiction for something that was legal within the USofA, when that American citizen never ever had a physical presense at all within the foreign jurisdiction.

    It has Never occured as far as I know from research, and never will due to your constitution.

    I challenge anyone to provide a fully case referenced example to the above, when all those criterias have been met.

    when you come back empty of qualified examples you will see how when it comes to extradition the USA is extremely hypocritical.

     

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  61.  
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    G Thompson (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 8:34pm

    Re: Re:

    Well you could always nuke em and then just fly to Australia to watch it here on the 14 July 2011 when it's released here ONE DAY EARLIER than the USA (actually nearly 2 days when you consider the Internation date/time difference)

    ;)

    Yep, us Aussies get it earlier than you USA muggles.. LOL

     

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  62.  
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    Jeremy2020 (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 9:24pm

    I purchased a book written by a Chinese man that criticizes his government. They have banned this book and charged him with crimes. They have also taken action against the printer of the book.

    My book was written and printed in China and owning it is a crime. I'm making my flight arrangements to China to turn myself in.

     

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  63.  
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    techflaws.org (profile), Jul 5th, 2011 @ 10:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I don't let little things like whining by the choir stop me from making the point

    Too bad you haven't made any point.

     

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  64.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 5th, 2011 @ 11:05pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Oh god, do you ever give up?

    Mike, I read your post very, very carefully. Perhaps I didn't express myself correctly.

    You express that .com is being used in a bad way (the ICE takedowns and intent to continue). I understand that the harm is only to people outside of the US, because you are a US citizen are subject to the laws regardless of your domain tld.

    My question remains: If .com is being abused, why are you not stepping away from it yourself? I know it doesn't change your legal standing, but wouldn't it be the right thing to do to take a stand against .com abuse and stop using .com yourself? Perhaps you can lead the masses to .td or some other tld so they can be safe. Why are you not leading a revolt against .com?

    I know and understand that it doesn't effect you directly. But I felt like if you are against what ICE is doing and you think that .com is being used in a bad way, why not step away from it and go somewhere else with your site? I mean, you could make a big press conference out of it, spew it all over the net, and really make a big stink out of it.

    Can you imagine? "While I am a US citizen and subject to the laws of the US no matter what tld I use, I feel that the abuse of power by ICE, it's abuse of the .com and .net namesapce, and their overall disregard for international law makes .com and .net into the buggy whips of a generation. As such, I am moving my maing site, techdirt.com, to techdirt.kp effective immediately. I invite everyone online to join me in dropping their .com domains, their .net domains, and ending all relationship with a tld which is being used by ICE to chase after innocent people outside of the US".

    You could use better words, but I think you get the gist of the idea. It isn't that is effects you directly, it's that you have the power to make a stand and start the shift away from .com and on to something more relevant. Maybe you can get a .techdirt tld and give everyone a domain there?

     

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  65.  
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    mematematica (profile), Jul 6th, 2011 @ 12:12am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    In case you sincerely care:

    You express that .com is being used in a bad way (the ICE takedowns and intent to continue)

    Neither Mike nor any other poster I read here is saying that the .com tld is being used the wrong way. I believe the intention and meaning behind Mike and other Americans here posting is about saving the .com tld, not boycott it.

    Why would it need to be saved?
    Well, I'm not an US-American and I will certainly avoid .com .net and such, don't want to be liable in the US for something legal in my country. (Same apply to the use of any other US company not only VeriSign, but that's another story) Non US residents will most probably do the same, and so .com will be the playground of US and US alone.
    I, of course, do not care about that scenario, It's not my country economy (and legitimacy) suffering. If US wants to disconnect itself from the world, good for them, they can play withing their own net.
    I believe some US residents are quite fearful of that scenario (they are right to be), and that's what they intend to prevent, not boycotting .com but saving it from the actions of a few misguided government agencies.

     

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  66.  
    identicon
    Irate Pirate, Jul 6th, 2011 @ 12:49am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Oh FFS, stop being a total idiot already. If Techdirt (and naturally many others) we're to move away from .com and .net as you propose, it would prove the whole point of the article which is that many US businesses will suffer.

    You would know this if you had bothered to not only read, but also comprehend the article. Me thinks Mike needs to start dumbing down his posts for the low IQ folks, or perhaps he just needs to type slower. :-p

     

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  67.  
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    Rikuo (profile), Jul 6th, 2011 @ 1:19am

    Re: TSA has become..

    Um, please get your facts straight. TSA is not a tool of the entertainment industry, they're the guys groping people at the airports. Now, Homeland Security and the Department of Justice, yes, you can say they have more or less become tools of the entertainment industry.

     

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  68.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 6th, 2011 @ 5:35am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    It does appear that a large number of elitists in the US believe that the US is the world's police and judicial department.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 6th, 2011 @ 5:38am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    It does appear that a large number of elitists in the US believe that the US is the world's police and judicial department.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 6th, 2011 @ 5:45am

    Re: Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    "The internet is global, with few exceptions, and using your logic, anyone could potentially fall under almost any jurisdiction."

    You almost get it here.

    The internet is global, with few exceptions, thus everyone fall under All jurisdiction with the only limit of power being the various jurisdictions ability to catch and if you do not agree with this and believe that you have more power than a government, any government that is, then you are seriously delusional.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jul 6th, 2011 @ 12:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Oh god, do you ever give up?


    Pot, kettle.

    Mike, I read your post very, very carefully. Perhaps I didn't express myself correctly.


    No. You expressed yourself clearly. You expressed yourself clearly on a false assumption.

    My question remains: If .com is being abused, why are you not stepping away from it yourself?

    Because, as clearly stated throughout this whole thing, it's not .com that's the problem. It's ICE.

    Ok. Let's clarify a little further for you:

    (1) A guy named Alex is kicking a puppy.
    (2) I point out that Alex is abusing the puppy and he should stop.
    (3) You come along and say to me, "Mike, why don't you get rid of your own puppy, since you claim Alex is abusing that other puppy."

    Can you see why everyone on this thread notes that the logic does not make sense here. The problem here is Alex. Not my puppy.

    I know it doesn't change your legal standing, but wouldn't it be the right thing to do to take a stand against .com abuse and stop using .com yourself? Perhaps you can lead the masses to .td or some other tld so they can be safe. Why are you not leading a revolt against .com?

    Because the problem is not .com. Which we've said. Over and over again.

    Can you imagine? "While I am a US citizen and subject to the laws of the US no matter what tld I use, I feel that the abuse of power by ICE, it's abuse of the .com and .net namesapce, and their overall disregard for international law makes .com and .net into the buggy whips of a generation. As such, I am moving my maing site, techdirt.com, to techdirt.kp effective immediately. I invite everyone online to join me in dropping their .com domains, their .net domains, and ending all relationship with a tld which is being used by ICE to chase after innocent people outside of the US".

    I don't see how that would make one lick of difference.

    You could use better words, but I think you get the gist of the idea. It isn't that is effects you directly, it's that you have the power to make a stand and start the shift away from .com and on to something more relevant. Maybe you can get a .techdirt tld and give everyone a domain there?

    That only makes sense if the problem is with .coms rather than ICE.

    The problem is with Alex, not my puppy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jul 6th, 2011 @ 2:18pm

    Re:

    Nice try, but the cornerstone of extradition treaties is that it must also be a crime in the country the extradition request is put to.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
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    Jay (profile), Jul 6th, 2011 @ 3:56pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Is domain name really a jurdiction issue?

    What really butters my biscuits about this is how the UK TVChannel admin extradition along with the Aussie copyright fiasco are totally BS. I agree with your statement, just wish the US would actually live up to being democratic and respecting people's rights instead of the tyranny it is exporting today.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Jul 6th, 2011 @ 4:00pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    First ... You are a fearful little troll.

    Second ... it doesn't make sense to move techdirt to an alt TLD. 875,000 people using RSS readers would have to change their links. Economically it would be a hit. If you really want techdirt shut down you can always pay the 100 million USD to do that. I mean thats a rounding error with the $550 million USD that the spanish collection society stole from its artists.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Jul 6th, 2011 @ 4:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Me thinks Mike needs to start dumbing down his posts for the low IQ folks, or perhaps he just needs to type slower. :-p"

    Yeah I would enjoy hand puppets and articles written in large letters.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    Irate Pirate, Jul 7th, 2011 @ 3:07pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    One can already change the font size in their browser quite easily, but the hand puppet thing I like! Then again, that might make Mike liable for all kinds of lawsuits if the Jim Henson Company ever caught wind of it. ;)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
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    Mel (profile), Jul 10th, 2011 @ 9:23am

    Re: Wow

    "The idea that the government believes that anything created in the US is US property should scare any sane person to the bone."

    The big picture of the United States of today should not be confused with the old "land of the free, home of the brave...". It has become a socialist country: the land of the ruling elite and the entitled to everything that is yours or mine, the home of the distracted. Distracted by our own self interest.

    BTW, I just got a notice that I'm being taxed on the amount of curb and gutters my house has. Why? Because they can.

     

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  78.  
    identicon
    alternatives(), Jul 10th, 2011 @ 7:39pm

    AC is not bright

    >If you think that this is wrong, and that the system is being abused,

    This would be a system where the government uses power to take domains?

    >why are you continuing to support .com by renewing your domains and paying them?

    Way to show your lack of understanding AC.

    How does not using .com address the overreach of Government power?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Aug 6th, 2011 @ 5:54am

    Response to: Gwiz on Jul 5th, 2011 @ 12:46pm

    www.buythissatellite.org is (or maybe was, because the satellite was sold to another party) exactly what you are thinking of.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    identicon
    Paul Davey, Aug 6th, 2011 @ 11:44am

    Fucking Idiot!!!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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