Senator Leahy Praises US Gov't Censorship Of Websites As ICE Takes Another Victory Lap

from the they-live-in-an-alternate-reality dept

It really would be kind of funny to watch the US government congratulate itself for censorship of websites if it wasn't just kind of sad. At a Senate Judiciary committee hearing on intellectual property issues, Senator Patrick Leahy (top 3 campaign contribution sources: lawyers, entertainment industry, lobbyists -- you can't make this stuff up) praised administration officials for censoring websites based on questionable accusations from an entertainment industry who seems to think that their own content creators are running "pirate" websites.

Of course, Leahy apparently doesn't recognize the irony of condemning internet censorship in other countries while praising it at home when it benefits his biggest campaign contributors.

The same hearing gave ICE assistant director Erik Barnett one more chance to declare victory, though I note with some amusement that the text of Barnett's speech this time leaves out the bogus claim that no sites are challenging the seizures. Apparently he's realized that some people might call him on it when he blatantly misrepresents reality.

Either way, none of this dog and pony show is much of a surprise. You certainly wouldn't expect Senator Leahy to call one of the people who had their sites illegally seized to hear their side of the story. I mean, that might be embarrassing to actually hear that there's more than one side to this. He might have to hear about how the content creators themselves sent the content in question to these sites, and how the ICE affidavit to seize them misstated the facts of whether or not the content was infringing. He might have to hear how ICE didn't even ask the actual copyright holders, in most cases. He might have to hear how ICE doesn't seem to understand the technology, and doesn't seem to understand the difference between linking and distribution. He doesn't have to hear about how hardworking people who helped promote new artists and build their careers now live in fear of their own government. He doesn't have to hear about how these people are afraid to speak out, because the Justice Department has told them that if they do, they may face criminal charges.

No, it's easier to put on a show and pat yourself on the back for censoring those people and pretend that you've done something productive.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 9:39am

    What's next...

    The People's Republic of the United State?

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 9:48am

    hey thats my senator! what a jackass. leaky leahy at it again, putting that derp in our herp so we can derp derp derp

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 9:55am

    You Said: "it's easier to put on a show and pat yourself on the back for censoring those people and pretend that you've done something productive"

    Me: So you are suggesting that everyone should just bury their heads in the sand, ignore the laws of the land, and stop chasing law breakers? Nice! I'll be over tonight to steal your computer, because that is another law that isn't popular!

     

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  4.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 9:56am

    Who do they represent?

    "You should all know that your work has the support of this committee. While there are many issues in which our members have spirited disagreements, the protection of intellectual property is not one of them," Leahy said.


    Do they understand (or care) that their constituency doesn't share their unanimity?

     

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  5.  
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    Dave (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 9:59am

    Re: Who do they represent?

    Of course not. When have those stupid constituent sheep ever paid for their re-election campaign, anyway?

     

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  6.  
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    RD, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 9:59am

    Re:

    "You Said: "it's easier to put on a show and pat yourself on the back for censoring those people and pretend that you've done something productive"

    Me: So you are suggesting that everyone should just bury their heads in the sand, ignore the laws of the land, and stop chasing law breakers? Nice! I'll be over tonight to steal your computer, because that is another law that isn't popular!"

    No, its more like you'll simply accuse someone of infringing and then the GOVT will go over and take away their computer based solely on your accusation, without trial, without proof, without any recourse.

    Still want this scenario wiseguy? Because with a scenario like this, YOU could be on the receiving end just as easily and with ZERO recourse or defense. Do you REALLY want our justice system to work this way? Or would you rather (as the article tries to point out) that they actually do their jobs CORRECTLY and not simply ONLY at the behest of those who make massive campaign contributions?

    Get a fricking clue.

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:05am

    Re: Re:

    You know, it's amazing. If I claim that someone stole my stuff (say a car) and I can show who did it (security camera, example) the police tend to go over and arrest the dude and seize evidence.

    Get a fricking clue.

     

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  8.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:06am

    No, it's easier to put on a show and pat yourself on the back for censoring those people and pretend that you've done something productive.

    Pretend? I'm pretty sure he's stupid enough to think he has done something productive, even if he has no idea what it is he's done.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:12am

    Re: Re: Re:

    You've conveniently added the "show," i.e.: proof. There is no proof required for an accusation (even though you'd think there should be), so your analogy breaks down.

    "But I have an IP address," you say? Yes, but how can you tied that to a specific household (wireless access), much less a person?

     

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  10.  
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    E. Zachary Knight (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:13am

    Re: Re: Re:

    That is true. However, these ICE seizures are nothing like that.

    This is like you claiming someone took your car for a joyride and brought it back. Then because you don't really know who did it, you tell the police that it was the guy down the street you hate. So they go and take his car from him while he is sleeping.

    They don't actually charge the guy or arrest him. They just take his car.

     

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  11.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:14am

    Re: Re: Re:

    yes but if you claim 'a tall black guy' stole your car, showed them a video of a hooded guy, and they went and arrested the nearest 10 black guys, that would be about the right analogy for the ice seizues.

     

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  12.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:14am

    Re:

    So you are suggesting that everyone should just bury their heads in the sand, ignore the laws of the land, and stop chasing law breakers? Nice! I'll be over tonight to steal your computer, because that is another law that isn't popular

    Could you have possibly framed that statement in a more disingenuous manner?

    1. No, I'm not saying people should ignore the law of the land.

    2. The issue here is not about ignoring the law of the land, but the gov't constantly stretching and changing that law in questionable ways at the behest of an industry that refuses to adapt.

    3. The issue here is not one of obeying the law. It's about how the government has now gone so far as to start censoring protected speech, and refuses to admit that.

    4. If you can't understand the difference between gov't censorship and stealing a computer you aren't worth listening to.

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:16am

    Politicians fix things that aren't broken for a living.

     

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    The eejit (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Change each instance of 'car' with 'map' and you have the analogy right.

     

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    The eejit (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:19am

    Re:

    No, they break people's brains with their doublethink. IT's been suggested that most people who go into politics have less empathy than any other profession (including psychopaths).

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:21am

    Senate Judiciary: Oversight of Intellectual Property Law Enforcement Efforts

     

    The Hillicon Valley blog reports that Senator Leahy made his remarks Wednesday at an “oversight hearing for the administration's intellectual property enforcement efforts”.

    Yesterday, the Senate Judiciary Committee held a full committee hearing on “Oversight of Intellectual Property Law Enforcement Efforts”.

    Senator Leahy's full statement is linked from the committee hearing page. In addition, witness testimony is available —including testimony by the administration's Victoria Espinel— linked from the hearing webpage.
     

     

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    A Guy, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:25am

    With any luck, we will hear how the massive success of the ICE seizures has allowed him to refocus his priorities and get back to doing the peoples business. He will never say that he is wasting his time fighting an impossible battle against technology he doesn't understand. The most we can expect is a "declare victory and go home" moment from him.

     

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  18.  
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    Randy (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:30am

    Re:

    Me: So you are suggesting that everyone should just bury their heads in the sand, ignore the laws of the land, and stop chasing law breakers? Nice! I'll be over tonight to steal your computer, because that is another law that isn't popular!

    AC, OK so who exactly is ignoring the laws of the land? You're saying that you are completely ok with any federal agency making up threats to take assets away from people because they don't or haven't been given any actual evidence. Mind you, if there was evidence there would be actual charges against the people in question. The actions of ICE are puppet shadow tricks because they aren't even taking the servers, they're taking domain names. So there is no evidence being gathered, no probably cause being justified, and nothing being preserved for trial. So I ask once again... Who exactly is breaking the laws?

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:46am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Everyone is guilty.

     

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  20.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:06am

    Mike I think you've stumbled important here. It's time to move past the anarchistic way of referring to our elected representatives as -. It's infinitely more useful, as in this article, to refer to them as etc. It's much easier for us to see exactly what the believe in, and who they actually represent when it's spelled out as such.

     

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  21.  
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    anymouse (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:08am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Off with their heads....

    Who knew that wonderland style justice was coming to the US...

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:09am

    Re:

    Arg it edited out my templates as HTML tags. The missing parts are when referring to our elected officials instead of [Name] [Party]-[State], we should use [Name] [Top Contributor]-[Second Contributor]-etc...

     

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  23.  
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    Zanastra, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:20am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Actually, from my experience the police tend not to do this. They file a report.

    I work in the security department overseeing several retail stores. We've caught people shoplifting on camera and knew who they were because they're repeat offenders. The police come and take the report and the video and then file it away.

    They've basically told us we have to catch the person in the act and detain them ourselves before they'll bother with it. Otherwise it just goes in their files.

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:44am

    Re: Re:

    Yeah, I always thought of Bod Dole as the Senior Senator from Archer, Daniels, Midland

     

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  25.  
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    DS, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:49am

    "(top 3 campaign contribution sources: lawyers, entertainment industry, lobbyists"

    But wait, only Republicans take money from big companies, i'm confused!

     

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  26.  
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    Richard (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:52am

    Re: Re:

    Pity, I rather liked your comment as it came out - it had an interesting surreal feel to it...

     

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  27.  
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    Karl (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:53am

    Voluntarily shut down?

    According to Barnett's testimony:

    following Operation In Our Sites v. 1.0, ICE was notified that 81 of the most active websites that had been offering pirated material voluntarily shut down.

    Does anyone know which sites he's talking about? Because I'm guessing that he counts websites voluntarily moving their domain names overseas as "shutting down." This is the only "deterrent effect" I've actually witnessed.

    The rest of his testimony (PDF - thanks, "orange AC") is pretty angering, but hardly surprising, and stretches the truth quite a bit.

    For example, he describes the forums and blogs as "websites selling pirated movies, music and software". Except, not a single one of the seized domains actually "sold" any infringing music or movies. (I don't know about software, but I'm guessing those were "warez" sites, in which case they wouldn't "sell" the software, either.)

    And here's his example of how IP helps American industries: "Intellectual property rights laws protect this tradition of innovation by thwarting thieves from selling cheap imitations of products that are often far less reliable than the original products."

    Of course, this is called "competition," and it is not illegal in any way. Hell, I've got a cheap iPod knock-off, which I bought from Micro Center.

    He also repeats the tired old connection between infringement and threats to "public safety," as if sharing a song and selling counterfeit pharmaceuticals are the same thing. And raises the bogeyman of "organized criminal enterprises," even though the one person charged with criminal copyright infringement was one guy who lived in his dad's basement.

    No mention, of course, of the major backlash this has caused from the tech industry and the general public. No mention of the fact that the seizures almost certainly violate the First Amendment. No mention of the fact that there is no immediate way to contest the seizures. No mention of the fact that one of the sites seized is completely legal in its home country. No mention of the fact that the person they're trying to extradite from England, is probably innocent under England's laws as well.

    Well, of course he wouldn't say all that. He's only saying what the MPAA lobbyists pay him to say.

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 12:02pm

    Re: Re:

    And you've been told hundreds of times that the Supreme Court has ruled numerous times that incidental speech is not protected when prosecuting illegal activity. If the intent of a site is to illegally distribute copyrighted materials, they do not get a waiver because they happen to contain a message board.

    Your insistence on continuing this willfully ignorant charade makes you look like a buffoon.

     

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  29.  
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    Dark Helmet (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 12:18pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "I work in the security department overseeing several retail stores."

    Shoulda told 'em you saw them downloading something. You'd have SWAT there w/i minutes....

     

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  30.  
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    Planespotter (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 12:26pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    even if the site has been cleared twice in the country where the admins/owners live? Or if the site is operated by admin/owners who upload/link to material sent to them by the industry claiming that they are pirates/infringement facilitators? or even if ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE IS PROVIDED JUST THAT SOMEONE SAID THE SITE INFRINGED?

    Your continual spin given the facts makes you look like an ARSE!

     

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  31.  
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    Common Sense, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 12:33pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    That is because you've shown PROOF. Proof of wrongdoing vs. accusation of wrongdoing is the difference between your examples. Also, the guy who stole your car can defend himself in a court of law, whereas these website owners seemingly have no recourse.

    You're still trying to compare apples to oranges.

    Get a fricking clue.

     

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  32.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:01pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You have fallen for another Techdirt fallacy. The location of a site isn't entirely relevant, it depends where it is doing business, and where the violations occur.

    The best example are poker sites, which are legal in most of the world, but were made illegal in the US using various methods. None of those poker companies actually have offices in the US or are US companies, but they are still subject to US law when dealing with US players and in making their product available in the US.

    As for the rest of your rant, almost every report of a crime is based on what happened, what you saw, etc. The only evidence may be an eye witness report. Online, it may be an IP address, a date, a time, and other information.

    Oh yeah, the AC above, you got it right. There are court rulings that have said that some protected speech may be harmed in order to stop unprotected speech. That in turn means that wrapping unprotected speech with some protected speech doesn't shield it from the law. Mike Masnick tends to ignore that very basic piece of caselaw at every turn, pretty much playing the 1st amendment card any time he has no other argument that makes sense to justify the latest shady website.

     

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  33.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You can go to that site right now, as Google now indexes their IP address, and it shows up second in a search (just left a message for my Senator about that...) Right on the front page is a headline that says download recent completed games, and there is last night's US baseball games. They do not have permission to do that from MLB. They are breaking our US copyright laws. Therefore, ICE had every right to take away their US-based domain.

    What a Spanish court said about US IP means absolutely nothing in the US.

    You know that, unless you also choose to be willfully ignorant...

     

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  34.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:05pm

    Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    Karl, many of these types of websites (not referring to these particular sites, but in general) use various method to turn their illegal content into money. Either they charge a membership fee to access their sites, or they place the content on websites that either pay them per download, or in file sharing systems where they get a commission when people pay for faster downloads.

    Many of them also put tons of advertising, paid links, and have other income methods related to the number of visitors to their sites.

    It isn't competition when one side produces a product and sells it, and the other side just steals it and sells it for a lower price. If you think that is competition, I have to shake my head and wonder where you went to school.

    The rest of your post is tired rhetoric, the stuff that plays well on this site but makes the rest of us laugh.

     

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  35.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:16pm

    Re: Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    yea, saying that the guy is paid off by the MPAA is simply bizarre; resorting to completely baseless slander just demonstrates the straws these L00ns are grasping at.

     

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  36.  
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    Viln (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:18pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    If the United States government wants to collect evidence and bring a case against the people who run a website for infringement there would be no backlash. That would involve reasonable protection of individual rights and freedoms, due process, and several other kind of sort of important concepts ICE thinks are worth trampling to get at copyright violators. Note... these are not websites providing maps and access codes to government installations encouraging domestic terrorism... this is not that (somewhat absurd) movie with a streaming video website of live executions where site hits equal death. These websites are not a clear and present danger to this country and don't warrant a constitution-bending black-op campaign of unlawful seizures and stonewalling those who protest. Even if this was child porn, which you guys love bringing up, the pictures are already taken. Which would you rather accomplish, catching the people who traffic them or driving them to safer havens and more secure methods of encryption and subterfuge?

    I'm not a Masnick apologist, I love it when people argue both sides of the story. I just find it hilariously ironic they always seem to do so as Anonymous Cowards. If the FQDN Brute Squad isn't stopped, if the federal agencies that continue to reduce the list of things they can't do without proper legal authority, you'll be left with an American internet with no anonymity. Hope everything you wanted to do online meets with the approval of the corporate-sponsored moral majority.

     

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  37.  
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    Gwiz (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:23pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    You know, it's amazing. If I claim that someone stole my stuff (say a car) and I can show who did it (security camera, example) the police tend to go over and arrest the dude and seize evidence.

    Get a fricking clue.


    You know, if I called DHS and told them that my neighbor has infringed my copyright and I have proof they'd laugh their asses off at me, right up until they hung up. I guess only those with proper cash get results.

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:30pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You're also being willfully ignorant. The evidence does not take any time whatsoever to be "collected"; it's all immediately right in front of you.

    And there is no law that says a trial must occur before property can be seized. These people are flagrantly breaking US law right out in the open. And the judge that grants the seizure order agrees. Due process right there, whether you like it or not.

    None of you apparently give a fuck that they are breaking US law with US content. Very telling.

     

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  39.  
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    AJ, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:33pm

    Re: Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    Regardless of whether or not I agree with you, I enjoy a good debate, and I was enjoying reading your post until i got to the ass hattery at the end... Try being a little less smug, it will definitely help your position... just friendly advise....

     

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  40.  
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    AJ, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:37pm

    Re: Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    You know... once we've run them all out of the U.S., and they have firmly planted themselves on domains and/or servers out of our reach, do we declare victory or defeat?

     

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  41.  
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    BeeAitch (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:44pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Copying (infringement)=/=stealing a physical object (the car).

    In the first instance, the owner still has the original, in the latter, they do not. This has been explained MANY times.

    Do pay attention, you'll look less of a fool.

     

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    rubberpants (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 1:54pm

    Re: Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    "but in general"

    See, there's your problem.

     

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  43.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 2:03pm

    Re: Re:

    To answer your points, Mike Masnick:

    1. No, but you are often encouraging people to profit from those who ignore the laws of the land, and propose business models that exist because of them,

    2. The government writes new laws and modifies old ones as a matter of course to meet with modern situations. Otherwise, we would have no rules for automobiles, example, because they came after the first congress.

    3. protected speech cannot be wrapped around unprotected speech to shield it. There are judgements that make this clear. Why do you ignore those judgements?

    4. law breaking is law breaking. Stealing a computer of using unprotected free speech (say child porn, a good example) are both crimes. If you cannot see that they are similar, I would say that you have a lot to learn about the basics of the law.

     

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    The eejit (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 2:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    And I still don't have enough straw to fill my barn. Odd, that. And as for being 'bought off' by the MPAA et al, the MPAA are paying half a million bucks a quarter to law enforcement, sot hat could be accurate.

     

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  45.  
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    Planespotter (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 2:07pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Why haven't ICE gone after the sites that are actually hosting the content?

    http://www.fileserve.com/
    http://www.filesonic.com/
    http://www.wupload.com/
    http://ww w.easy-share.com/

     

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  46.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 2:08pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The best example are poker sites, which are legal in most of the world, but were made illegal in the US using various methods. None of those poker companies actually have offices in the US or are US companies, but they are still subject to US law when dealing with US players and in making their product available in the US.

    So you would be okay with, say, Chinese officials seizing the domains and servers of sites that they don't like, even if they were outside of that country?

    Oh yeah, the AC above, you got it right. There are court rulings that have said that some protected speech may be harmed in order to stop unprotected speech.

    Under some very specific situations and circumstances, which don't apply here. Why you ignore that... I have no idea.

    Mike Masnick tends to ignore that very basic piece of caselaw at every turn, pretty much playing the 1st amendment card any time he has no other argument that makes sense to justify the latest shady website

    Hilarious. Almost everything you state here is wrong. I don't "ignore" the case law. I have explained why it's not applicable. And I bring up the First Amendment where it applies, and not to justify shady websites, but to point out a rather scary abuse of power by the government.

    I've actually talked to people who run some of these websites -- such as the blogs that musicians themselves would hope to get linked on, and which never hosted any content themselves and which only posted content sent from the copyright holders.

    And they're confused and scared. Because the US government has seized their property, not responded to their questions for why, used evidence that was simply wrong, relied on faulty testimony from people who were not the copyright holders, and... when they brought all this up, they were threatened with criminal prosecution.

    You might think that's nothing and that this is just a "shady" website. And then you look at who Universal Music declared were such "shady" websites, and it includes Vimeo, the Internet Archive... and all of the top hip hop magazines and blogs.

    And you realize this is absolutely a First Amendment issue, and a big one.

     

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  47.  
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    Planespotter (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 2:11pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So they take down...err... sorry.. so they remove the domain name leaving the site intact of a website that links to infringing files but doesn't actually host anything but leaves the sites that do host them alone?

    and the actual point of the exercise is what?

    1. To actually remove infringing content?

    or

    b. To look like your removing infringing content?

     

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  48.  
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    Planespotter (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 2:18pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I don't because I'm English and therefore couldn't care less about American law really.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 2:36pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Under some very specific situations and circumstances, which don't apply here.

    You're just resorting to flat-out lying at this point, Masnick.

    Of course they apply. We're talking about sites that flagrantly ignore US copyright law while dealing in US content. You know this, you're caught, but you are such a slimeball that you refuse to admit it.

    And they're confused and scared.

    More slimy, disingenuous bullshit. They are 100% aware of the laws on these matters. There are hundreds of hip-hop forums and blogs where this is admitted every day. Do some real research for once. You're embarrassing.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    icon
    Planespotter (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 3:07pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So why is 50 Cents website blacklisted then?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    identicon
    JMT, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 4:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "You're also being willfully ignorant. The evidence does not take any time whatsoever to be "collected"; it's all immediately right in front of you."

    It's hilarious that you call someone wilfully ignorant and then in the same breath claim you can tell if something's infringing just by looking at it. It's been shown repeatedly that this is miles from reality.

    "None of you apparently give a fuck that they are breaking US law with US content."

    Who's law it is is irrelevant. People don't respect bad laws, and they often break laws they don't respect. You'll have to come up with a much stronger argument than simply "it's against the law".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    identicon
    JMT, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 4:18pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    "law breaking is law breaking"

    Ah, the simple argument of a simple mind...

    Most people won't steal a computer because they believe it's morally wrong to do so.

    Most people will copy a computer file because they don't believe it's morally wrong to do so.

    If you cannot see that they are quite different, I would say that you have a lot to learn about the basics of the human nature. As does Big Content.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    identicon
    JMT, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 4:25pm

    Re: Re: Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    "...saying that the guy is paid off by the MPAA is simply bizarre..."

    So what's your explanation for all the money MPAA, etc give to politicians? If it's not paying to get the laws they want, what is it? Genuine question, I want to hear this explained by someone who doesn't think it's simply legalised corruption.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  
    icon
    Any Mouse (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 7:42pm

    Re:

    Prove that any law was broken. Show us the court rulings that would actually say they were law breakers. 'I know it when I see it' isn't compelling in the least, and demonstrably wrong.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 8:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Morally wrong doesn't enter into it. Someone having sex with someone else's wife may not think it an issue, because for them it isn't morally wrong. A rapist getting his jolies in making a woman suffer for sex may also see no moral issue with it. If things are only set by the morals of the person committing the act, we will all be doomed.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 8:42pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    c. make the infringing content less available to the average joe, break all the built up links, and generally disrupt the flow of infringing content.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 8:43pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "More slimy, disingenuous bullshit. They are 100% aware of the laws on these matters. There are hundreds of hip-hop forums and blogs where this is admitted every day. Do some real research for once. You're embarrassing."

    Mike said - "You might think that's nothing and that this is just a "shady" website. And then you look at who Universal Music declared were such "shady" websites, and it includes Vimeo, the Internet Archive... and all of the top hip hop magazines and blogs."

    How about answering the question instead of going off topic with the rant? The seizures and the law change all the time. How were they supposed to know about the illegality of what they were doing when the government didn't give them a chance to tell their opinion in court?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 8:44pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I guess US law is another great export.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 8:46pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    That's the worst strawman argument I have ever seen...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    JMT, Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 9:43pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Morally wrong doesn't enter into it."

    Of course it does. Like most people, I don't commit rape or adultery because I know it's morally wrong to do so, not just because it's illegal. There aren't things I wish I could do but don't simply because they're illegal. Laws have almost always been based on what most people in a society believe to be right and wrong. One of the reasons copyright infringement is so widespread is that copyright laws don't line up with what many people inherently believe is right and wrong.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    Casey Bouch (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 10:18pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The key here is that there is rarely any more evidence then an IP address linked to some activity. There is no proof that it came from your household or any one person.

    The scariest part for me is losing all my computers... how would I continue to watch pirated movies?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:20pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Which still does nothing to stop the problem.

    I can't believe I'm having to use this analogy, but here goes:

    Let's compare this with child porn (a criminal act):

    1)Domain is seized in both cases;
    2a)Copyright - you are stonewalled, and the content isn't taken down, just marginally less accessible;
    2b) Child porn - you are arrested, and the content isn't taken down, just marginally less accessible;
    3) Criminal charges are brought against, maybe, one person in both cases, instead fo, y'know, going after the real criminals, as you claim them to be.

    If you cannot see that those, whilst similar circumstances are completely different in the eyes of the law, then I think oyu may have to take a bath in sulphuric acid, because there is no provable harm in one case, and provable harm in the other.

    I'm guessing you'll go for the former being provabel and the latter not so much.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:22pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    According to nthe RIAA and the MPAA, morality not just entersw the debate, it it frantically beats its tune whilst letting one of its lackeys do the immoral work, so that it doesn't catch the immoral pirate disease.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jun 23rd, 2011 @ 11:26pm

    Re: Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    It isn't competition when one side produces a product and sells it, and the other side just steals it and sells it for a lower price. If you think that is competition, I have to shake my head and wonder where you went to school.


    Actually, that is coimpetition, just not the way the Big companies want it. They want someone to point at and go, "there's our villain, get him!" This simply doesn't work anymore - it's like trying to break the world record for the number of sexual partners in 10 hours - after a while, you'll just be too tired.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    icon
    techflaws.org (profile), Jun 24th, 2011 @ 12:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Dumb rant is obvious.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    icon
    techflaws.org (profile), Jun 24th, 2011 @ 12:26am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Right. So piracy has been stopped and the problem is solved. So what are you guys whining about?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    icon
    techflaws.org (profile), Jun 24th, 2011 @ 12:31am

    Re: Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    Either they charge a membership fee to access their sites, or they place the content on websites that either pay them per download, or in file sharing systems where they get a commission when people pay for faster downloads.

    OR, they simply offer a place for others to post links to filelockers who don't pay any money. You'll find out about that soon enough when following the money trail won't stop these sites from existing.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    identicon
    darryl, Jun 24th, 2011 @ 7:30am

    Re: Voluntarily shut down?

    "of the major backlash this has caused from the tech industry and the general public"


    WHAT ???????


    May be you should visit other sites apart from TD!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    darryl, Jun 24th, 2011 @ 7:37am

    Praises US Gov't Censorship Of Websites

    Mike when are you going to GET A CLUE, and find out what CENSORSHIP means?

    If something is censored in your country it means that legally NO ONE is allowed to sell it, or there are specific restrictions as to who is able to buy or view that materidal.

    Copyright is not censorship, if harry potter is rated G that is it's censorship rating. If does not mean that anyone is allowed to sell that content or that it is restricted by government laws.

    It simply means that is it's censorship rating, and again that has absolutely nothing to do with copyright.

    Mike if you are so 'smart' and knowlegable about these things why do you constantly make this simple and basic error?

    It makes you look stupid and ignorant! Because YOU KNOW BETTER.. dont you Mike!

    So why lie ? why not tell the truth, do you think the people you are talking AT are so stupid that they will accept you crap as true?

    or is it that you honestly do not understand the difference between COPYRIGHT and Censorship? and if so HOW CAN THAT BE?

    How is it possible for someone who claims knowledge in this field can exihibit such ignorance?

    Please tell us Mike

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Jun 24th, 2011 @ 7:57am

    Re: Praises US Gov't Censorship Of Websites

    Copyright is censorship if you like sharing things you like in order to drum up interest.

    ...Well, that was easy. One sentence to kill a rant.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    darryl, Jun 24th, 2011 @ 8:15am

    Re: Re: Praises US Gov't Censorship Of Websites

    the laws on copyright and the law on censorship are NOT the same laws. once you get that into your brain you MIGHT have a chance of gaining some understanding.

    Until then, you are better off saying nothing.

    If you honestly think you can equate any laws with "the things you like" it is clear you do not have a freaking clue about anything !!!!..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 24th, 2011 @ 10:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Of course they apply. We're talking about sites that flagrantly ignore US copyright law while dealing in US content. You know this, you're caught, but you are such a slimeball that you refuse to admit it.

    By flagrantly ignoring US copyright law, you mean promoting works that were sent by the copyright holders? Obeying the DMCA?

    You have no clue what you're talking about, as usual.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 24th, 2011 @ 10:50am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    There is nothing wrong with the law; it's been around for centuries.

    You rip stuff off because you can currently get away with it. Everyone knows this, yet you like to pretend there is some other reality.

    Go see a medical professional about your mental health.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 24th, 2011 @ 10:50am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    There is nothing wrong with the law; it's been around for centuries.

    You rip stuff off because you can currently get away with it. Everyone knows this, yet you like to pretend there is some other reality.

    Go see a medical professional about your mental health.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    icon
    BeeAitch (profile), Jun 24th, 2011 @ 10:57am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Infringement (copying) =/= violent sexual crime (rape).

    Thanks for playing.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    darryl, Jun 24th, 2011 @ 11:35am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    yes, Mike the "works" might of been sent to them, but the COPYRIGHT for those works was NOT...

    Ie, just like when you buy a CD, you purchase the "works" but you do not purchase the right to copy that work.

    Don't you get that Mike ??

    Just because a music company gives away music (they can do that) it does not mean they are also giving away the right of copyright to that work.

    Only a moron would think that is the case, do you think that is the case Mike ??

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jun 24th, 2011 @ 1:54pm

    Re: Re: Re: Praises US Gov't Censorship Of Websites

    "the laws on copyright and the law on censorship are NOT the same laws"

    All evidence points to this being false.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    identicon
    John L Polite, Jun 24th, 2011 @ 2:48pm

    Censorship

    Good God Pat. Please I voted for you.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jun 25th, 2011 @ 12:37am

    For the love of...

    "yes, Mike the "works" might of been sent to them, but the COPYRIGHT for those works was NOT.."

    They weren't Righthaven.

    "Ie, just like when you buy a CD, you purchase the "works" but you do not purchase the right to copy that work."

    *facepalm*

    "Just because a music company gives away music (they can do that) it does not mean they are also giving away the right of copyright to that work."

    They were promoting!

    Just like when you hear FREE MUSIC on the radio! Music YOU DON'T pay for that makes you like an artist or decide to check them out and see if you want to add them to your list of artists!

    FREE PROMOTION, darryl!

    FREE PUBLICITY for an artist, darryl!

    FREE
    FREE
    FREE

    What part of that do you NOT understand? What part of that do you have to sit here, crawl up inside your brain and lobotomize because you want to make a retarded argument about how they're not purchasing a work?

    That wasn't the argument presented and you damn well know it! The argument has been focused almost exclusively on why did the record labels, through the ICE stop the promotion, which stopped the FREE advertising?

    Geez...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jun 25th, 2011 @ 6:42am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "You rip stuff off because you can currently get away with it"

    *sigh*

    The most painfully ignorant thing anyone could say is that streaming or copying a movie is theft.

    You just need to rethink piracy. Period. There's plenty of information available about how copyright enforcement has more harmful effects than someone downloading a movie. No one cares about the latter except the person involved. Everyone will come to care when they're restricted to 200 websites on the internet, their bandwidth is limited, and they can't play the games they like, causing them to revolt against their ISP.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    identicon
    JMT, Jun 25th, 2011 @ 3:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "There is nothing wrong with the law; it's been around for centuries."

    Copyright law today is massively different to copyright law from centuries ago. You know this, and yet you still make this incredibly stupid comment. Vested interest much?

    "Go see a medical professional about your mental health."

    And there's the razor sharp wit and skillful debating we've all come to expect from our content industry AC's...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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