Talking About Why The PROTECT IP Act Is Bad News...

from the talking-heads dept

Yesterday, I went on The Alyona Show on RTTV (which I've appeared on a few times in the past) to discuss some of the problems in the PROTECT IP Act. Not much new if you've been following the debate, but glad to see that some TV programs are concerned about this:


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  1.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 7:26pm

    Russia. There's a real beacon of intellectual property integrity...

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 7:30pm

    Re:

    Don't forget Brazil, India and China. I'm sure the Untied States has nothing to worry about concerning those four countries, nothing at all.

     

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  3.  
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    Persephone (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 7:49pm

    Bizarre

    You don't like IP's being protected Mike?

    Have you seen this Guardian article?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/may/01/malware-cyberplague-internet-meltdown

    "Most importantly, malware found a business model in the late 1990s. The fragility of the monoculture could be exploited for profit. Spamming – junk emailing – could now be done on a truly gigantic scale. Hitherto, it had required identifiable servers with broadband access to the net. But the new broadband environment offered a better infrastructure. All you had to do was find machines with fast connections, unpatched security vulnerabilities and non-savvy owners and infect them with a Trojan that would turn them into relay stations for spam (and which could be turned off just as easily, to avoid detection)."

     

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  4.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 7:50pm

    Re:

    See, you've started with the unsupported (as usual) conclusion that this imaginary "intellectual property integrity" is a good thing.

     

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  5.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 7:51pm

    Russian television? You're kidding right? That will do wonders to bring your arguments into the mainstream.

    Interesting comments on the breadth of the definition of a rogue site. Care to offer up one of your own?

     

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  6.  
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    Jay (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 8:06pm

    Re:

    What is he supposed to do? Get on NBC who can't even get the story right?

    Mike, next time, go to Al-Jazeera (seriously). It's better to get an international perspective than one clouded by lobbying money.

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 8:07pm

    Re: Bizarre

    IP: Intellectual Property
    IP: Internet Protocol

     

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  8.  
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    Mike42 (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 8:15pm

    Re: Bizarre

    As the AC was attempting to say, this is not about TCP/IP (the protocol), this is about copyright laws, aka Intellectual Property, aka IP.
    Now that we've cleared up the acronyms, do you have a relevant comment?

     

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  9.  
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    MrWilson, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 8:29pm

    Re: Bizarre

    What does that have to do with protecting IP?

     

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  10.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 8:32pm

    Re: Re:

    Your man-crush on Masnick is getting a little creepy. Al-Jazeera is a great idea. Move your "newsworthy" message from free speech and due process advocate Russia to Qatar's state-owned news outlet. Here are a few fun facts about Al-Jazeera from Wikipedia:

    "Emmy award winning journalist Dave Marash, who served as a veteran correspondent for ABC's Nightline, resigned from his position as Washington anchor for Al Jazeera English in 2008. Dave Marash cited "reflexive adversarial editorial stance" against Americans and "anti-American bias". [97] "
    In 2004, Accuracy in Media, a non-profit media watchdog group, also criticized Al Jazeera for its "anti-American" stance. [99]

    The fact that everyone in the mainstream news universe from Rachael Madow at one end to Glenn Beck at the other treats Masnick like a leper is telling. His obsequious apologist shuck-n-jive on behalf of those companies and individuals that profit from infringing behavior is laughed at in serious journalistic circles.

     

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  11.  
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    Persephone (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 8:47pm

    Re: Re: Bizarre

    My comment stands.

     

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  12.  
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    Persephone (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 8:48pm

    Re: Re: Bizarre

    Protecting privacy and rights is a common theme.

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:03pm

    When you are down to using a Russian government mouth piece organization as a source, you are in serious trouble.

     

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  14.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:06pm

    Re: Re: Re: Bizarre

    Gee, that's convincing.

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:10pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Considering this is the second or third Russian story this week, I am starting to wonder if we shouldn't refer to Mike Masnick as comrade. You can see where this is going (socialism is the answer!)

     

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  16.  
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    Kaden (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:11pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Nice bit of wikipedia cherry picking. You missed a good one though...

    "On 4 March 2011, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that Al Jazeera provided more informative news coverage than the opinion-driven coverage of American mass media.[87] Most American media outlets declined comment. Michael Clemente of Fox News called the comments "curious," while not directly refuting them. "

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:12pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    His obsequious apologist shuck-n-jive on behalf of those companies and individuals that profit from infringing behavior is laughed at in serious journalistic circles.


    So tell me - what colour is the sky in your world?

    You keep saying these things that are not only provably false, but proven false - you obviously have no connection with the real world.. so I was wondering if the sky there is a different colour?

     

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  18.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Blue. The same color it is in the world of all of the internationally respected news organizations that dismiss Masnick as the crackpot he is. If his lack of coverage by a reputable journalist is false, kindly provide the link to the story or interview we I can see it. I've only seen his Chicken Little routine with the Russian tart.

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:32pm

    Was this troll-bait?

    Cause it sure worked.

    Count the off-topics, ad-hominems, and general pointlessness that ensues....

     

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  20.  
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    Jay (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Bizarre

    *sigh*

    That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

     

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  21.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "If his lack of coverage by a reputable journalist is false"

    Uhm... is that an appeal to authority fallacy or a no true scotsman fallacy?

    Seriously, what does who covers his opinion have to do with the validity of his opinion?

     

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  22.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:43pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Actually, I think it's both at once.

    It's a no true scotsman fallacy because he arbitrarily defines the journalists that do cover his opinions to be non-reputable.

    It's an appeal to authority fallacy because he appeals to the authority of those who agree with him, claiming them to be reputable.

    Wow, two fallacies all in one sentence.

     

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  23.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:49pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "So tell me - what colour is the sky in your world?"

    "Blue."

    Wow, did you figure that one out all on your own? I'm impressed.

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:51pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So the issue used to be that his opinion was dismissed among internationally-known and respected journalists. Now you've moved the goal post by implying that lack of coverage by anyone remotely meeting the description above somehow means that his opinion has merit?

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Still waiting for the link.

     

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  26.  
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    Jay (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 9:54pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    What the hell does being on CNN, NBC (who's already demonstrated their bias) or Faux News have to do with being more reputable or less reputable than international news sources?

    So let me get this straight, if he suddenly appeared on BBC, would that satisfy your neurotic need for "mainstream" acceptance?

    I'd say "go where the story goes". So if you need an international perspective, link up with Al-Jazeera and discuss the effects of piracy with them and see how they feel. Hook up with BBC, see how the Digital Economy Act is affecting the local populace.

    If NBC can stop taking corruption money, hey, talk to them and see how much crap they're spewing. Odd for you to try to discredit Alyona, but hey, she has some decent news and she's doing a lot better than PBS and the American broadcasters that are "reputable".

     

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  27.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 10:06pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    @Jay: You aren't seriously comparing a 24 year old poly sci major fronting for Russian television to PBS and American news broadcasting? Is your level of desperation really that acute? This is laughably pathetic.

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 10:07pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    ... and waiting

     

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  29.  
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    Jay (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 10:11pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Are you going to answer the damn question Buck or pass the buck as usual?

     

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  30.  
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    JMT, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 10:19pm

    Re:

    Because the US government mouth piece organisations are a better source? I'm not so sure...

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 1st, 2011 @ 10:29pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "What the hell does being on CNN, NBC (who's already demonstrated their bias) or Faux News have to do with being more reputable or less reputable than international news sources?"

    Those (and other) news organizations are staffed by professional journalists and editors with decades of reporting experience. Their creditability is evidenced by the millions of viewers who rely on them to get their news. A 24 year old Russian kid with a freshly minted poly sci degree is hardly in the same league.

    "So let me get this straight, if he suddenly appeared on BBC, would that satisfy your neurotic need for "mainstream" acceptance?"

    That would be a start

    "I'd say "go where the story goes". So if you need an international perspective, link up with Al-Jazeera and discuss the effects of piracy with them and see how they feel. Hook up with BBC, see how the Digital Economy Act is affecting the local populace."

    Except it doesn't appear that anyone other than the Russian kid thinks Masnick has any particular gravitas on the issue. Including Qatar's state owned news outlet, Al-Jazeera.

    "If NBC can stop taking corruption money,"

    Really, corruption money? [citation needed]

    " hey, talk to them and see how much crap they're spewing."

    Is it crap, or do you disagree?

    " Odd for you to try to discredit Alyona, but hey, she has some decent news and she's doing a lot better than PBS and the American broadcasters that are "reputable"."

    See earlier comments. She's a nobody like Masnick, masquerading as a journalist for the Russian propaganda machine. Obviously you know little of the state of independent news in Russia. Happy now?

     

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  32.  
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    SD (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 11:07pm

    Re:

    Do you think Russia is going to sit back and wait for for tons of .ru domain names to be blocked by the U.S. government?

    Of course they're having their media attack this bill.

    Nobody wants to be involved in fracturing the internet but that's what they'd probably have to do to protect their sovereignty if the bill passes.

    Why would they want to assist in running a network that only protects U.S. interests over the expense of others?

     

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  33.  
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    Jesse (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 11:09pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    AC: So either you are an expert wasting your time arguing anonymously over the internet with people who are obviously (to you) well below your intellect...or you are a moron stroking his ego by pretending to be intelligent.

    Care to pick?

     

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  34.  
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    velox (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 11:14pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So attention from the MSM is your measure of validity? So why are you here on Techdirt discussing issues that "aren't important" by your standard? Shouldn't you be at some other website commenting on those Schlong pictures that were just put out on Twitter? Lord knows the MSM covered that issue pretty well.

    Oh that's right... I had forgotten you are paid to comment over here.

     

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  35.  
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    Jay (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 11:42pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Those (and other) news organizations are staffed by professional journalists and editors with decades of reporting experience. Their creditability is evidenced by the millions of viewers who rely on them to get their news. A 24 year old Russian kid with a freshly minted poly sci degree is hardly in the same league. "

    Debatable. Just because the ones I listed came first, doesn't mean they own a monopoly on reporting the news. Some people haven't heard of the Real News Network, but they arguably have decent news coverage of Afghanistan along with free speech issues. CNN might be "the world wide leader" but they get just as many stories from other news networks along with their other connections as the newcomers.

    "Except it doesn't appear that anyone other than the Russian kid thinks Masnick has any particular gravitas on the issue. Including Qatar's state owned news outlet, Al-Jazeera. "

    Oddly enough, she's the only one in Washington DC that seems to focus on issues that affect the nation, such as bad laws. Hmmm... Fancy that. Looking on the Al-Jazeera site, it seems they're currently looking at online censorship with Facebook right now. They're still effectively looking at the Egyptian revolution and its effects.

    "Really, corruption money? [citation needed]"

    Study up

    "Is it crap, or do you disagree?"

    When NBC has heavily biased opinions based on who gives them the most money, it's not journalism, it's crap.

    " She's a nobody like Masnick, masquerading as a journalist for the Russian propaganda machine. Obviously you know little of the state of independent news in Russia. Happy now?"

    Buck, you're a paid lobbyist, who comes on this site to get a rise out of people and to stir up trouble. Your arguments rely heavily on trying to ridicule opponents, or using dubious, even false information to back it up. If the only thing you can do is discount people more successful than you, it's not my problem. Hell, the Russian *President* has already come out looking more moderate with his view than what Alyona "the progagandist" has said about the messed up politics of this legislation. There must be something in the Russian water because they look a helluva lot more sensible than the RIAA or the MPAA and their need to break the internet.

    After seeing how PBS has dealt with Bradley Manning, or what NBC does in regards to the domain seizures, I find their "reputations" circumspect. It goes without saying that you've got to build trust with your audience. NBC lost a lot of mine with their shenanigans. And the last thing that CNN is talking about is internet piracy when they are busy discussing the real thing.

     

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  36.  
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    Any Mouse (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 11:49pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Internationally respected news organizations?? REALLY!? Not the US organizations, that's for certain. Those are pretty universally dismissed as one-sided propaganda engines.

     

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  37.  
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    The eejit (profile), Jun 1st, 2011 @ 11:51pm

    Re: Was this troll-bait?

    Who trolls the trolls? Me. I do.

    Who trolls the trolls that troll? I do that, too. You can call me The Guiding Troll.

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 12:16am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Now you've moved the goal post by implying that lack of coverage by anyone remotely meeting the description above somehow means that his opinion has merit?"

    Where did I say that? Reading comprehension fail. Seriously, are you that illiterate?

     

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  39.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 12:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Wait, are you suggesting that you needed help to figure that out? Never mind, I previously gave you too much credit.

     

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  40.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 12:22am

    Re:

    Russian television? You're kidding right? That will do wonders to bring your arguments into the mainstream.

    I'm happy to discuss this with whomever is interested in discussing it. Also, FYI, RT is a US-targeted TV station. But, why let facts get in the way with your desire to smear me?

    Of course, since you seem so fascinated with judging me based on what media is interested in talking to me, I've been quoted plenty of times in the NY Times, the WSJ, Wired, the Washington Post, etc. I've appeared on both NPR and CBC (the equivalent of NPR but in Canada) multiple times.

    But that's really beside the point, isn't it? This is all a sideshow. Since you can't attack the message, you have to attack the messenger.

    RTTV asked me to come on and speak about this, and I did. And the best you can come back with is an insult for Russia?

     

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  41.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 12:23am

    Re: Bizarre

    You don't like IP's being protected Mike?

    Have you seen this Guardian article?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/may/01/malware-cyberplague-internet-meltdown


    I am at a total loss as to what this has to do with the PROTECT IP act. Care to explain?

     

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  42.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 12:26am

    Re: Re: Re:

    The fact that everyone in the mainstream news universe from Rachael Madow at one end to Glenn Beck at the other treats Masnick like a leper is telling.

    Huh? Maddow and Beck treat me like a leper? Really? Pray tell where did that tidbit come from? More like neither knows who I am, with good reason. I write a tech blog that rarely touches on anything either would be interested in.

     

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  43.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 12:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Very true.

     

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  44.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 1:22am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "If his lack of coverage by a reputable journalist is false, kindly provide the link to the story or interview we I can see it."

    It's amazing how opinions about this predicted rapture that keeps getting delayed can easily make their way over to public airwaves, yet the laws are set up in such a way that they effectively make it much more difficult for IP criticisms to be broadcasted. IP criticisms, monopolists can't have that.

     

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  45.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 1:23am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    (IOW, merit has no play in what gets broadcasted).

     

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  46.  
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    Blatant Coward (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:06am

    Re: Bizarre

    I think it means that the PROTECT ip plan would protect those using malware as a business model as well. Remove a virus that is part of someones source of revenue, and they can sue you.

     

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  47.  
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    Prisoner 201, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:17am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Dont be silly, the end of the world concerns EVERYONE! The dismantling of privacy and freedom of speech only concerns the poor, and really, who can honestly say the care about them?

     

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  48.  
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    darryl, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:20am

    Re: Re:

    if you are that damn famous and in demand, give us some links to articles from the above mentions news groups that you claims that has quoted you.

    (and no them saying the same thing as you said, is not quoting you).

    In other words if you say "I dont like IP", and someone else says "I dont like IP" that is not them quoting you.

    Show us at least ONE link to confirm it is not all just real in your head.

    Of course, if you REALLY were on any of those programs, you would have done exactly the same as you have done with this article, done a bit of 'self promotion' to show us all how big and important you are.

    No one was insulting Russia, they were insulting you Mike, if you are that big and important, why make such a big deal about some unknown online Russian Streaming site, that is "directed towards the US".

    If it is directed at the US, how come no one in the US seems to have heard about it ?

    We judge you on what you say, far more than who you say it too.

    They are attacking the 'messinger' and not the message.

    No one would be interested in interviewing you anyway (IMO) simple due to your total single minded, "it's my way or no way" attitude, that NEVER changes.

    What is there to ask you ? everyone allready knows exactly what your response will be to any particular 'issue'.

    It's like you have a big cheat book that has standard 'who to blame' and 'who to call stupid', and "who to discredit' list and simple explinations for you to follow.

    It's the SAME every time, even if they conflict with each other.

    Like the classic, COPYRIGHT.

    The Congress shall have Power [. . .] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, how many times have we heard you rattle that one off, we all know it by heart thanks to you.

    It's a damn shame to done post the complete statement, why is that ???

    Let me guess, it does not 'jell' with your idealogy !

    How is it you are apparently the only person on the planet who understands EVERYTHING, everything about computers, everthing about the internet, everything about the music and movie industries.

    And of course, everything about business and finance, and economics. But for some reason someone with so much self proclaimed talent is using your valuable time flogging a dead horse ?

    Year in year out, all those talents are waisted, so you can give formula answers to every 'crisis' that you can see.

    I come here for the endless amusement that you provide us and your core group of dieharts who hang on your every word, like a mantra from a higher being !!!..

    I guess the only thing we can really be thankfull for is that you appear to have no authority, and are not listened to by anyone who actually have something to do with the real world and how it works.

    How much were you paid ?

     

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  49.  
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    Prisoner 201, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:21am

    Re: Re:

    I would really like to read green star AC's response to this. Will he backpedal, stonewall or troll? My money is on the last option.

     

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  50.  
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    Prisoner 201, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:22am

    Re: Re: Re:

    The hate is strong in this one.

     

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  51.  
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    Prisoner 201, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:24am

    Re: Re: Re:

    It's like you have a big cheat book that has standard 'who to blame' and 'who to call stupid', and "who to discredit' list and simple explinations for you to follow.

    Much like your work schedule, except there is only one name in it. Must be a pretty monotonous job, eh? Kudos for sticking in there.

     

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  52.  
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    darryl, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:24am

    Re: Re: Re:

    The Congress shall have Power [. . .] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts,

    by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

     

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  53.  
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    Planespotter (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:29am

    The 4th Amendment says

    "“ The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    So how does that tie in with allowing any government official on your land, to touch your property without a warrant? That's the only question, doesn't matter who is saying it or what broadcast medium they are using.

    The home of the brave and the land of the free eh? Seems that you are gradually moving into a police state sanctioned by politicians on the payroll of corporations.

     

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  54.  
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    Karl (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:31am

    Re: Re: Re: Bizarre

    Protecting privacy and rights is a common theme.

    I'm all for protecting privacy and rights, too. PROTECT-IP does neither.

    In fact, most copyright maximalists aren't big fans of privacy, e.g. allowing FBI wiretaps of suspected "infringers," massive "John Doe" lawsuits, demanding ISP's keep a log of users for the purposes of suing, etc. Nor are they fans of individual rights, like the First or Fourth Amendments.

    In fact, the RIAA/MPAA has a lot in common with the malware folks. These are the same people that put "rootkits" on legally-purchased CD's, put out "poison" torrents, etc.

    So, if you're really about protecting privacy and rights, you're on the wrong team.

     

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  55.  
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    The eejit (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:36am

    Re:

    Yup. China and Bahrain are taking notes.

     

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  56.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 2:53am

    Re: Re: Re:

    if you are that damn famous and in demand, give us some links to articles from the above mentions news groups that you claims that has quoted you.

    (and no them saying the same thing as you said, is not quoting you).

    In other words if you say "I dont like IP", and someone else says "I dont like IP" that is not them quoting you.

    Show us at least ONE link to confirm it is not all just real in your head.

    Of course, if you REALLY were on any of those programs, you would have done exactly the same as you have done with this article, done a bit of 'self promotion' to show us all how big and important you are.


    Heh. Really? Let's see if Darryl admits he was wrong. He goes on for all these paragraphs insisting that I was lying here, and even making up the claim that people agreeing with me is what I was talking about. Here are some links:

    http://online.wsj.com/video/kara-visits-techdirts-mike-masnick/CAA6BFB4-FA96-452A-80AF-179 FCCDED62F.html?mod=googlewsj

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487046582045756107716772 42174.html

    http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/10/30/eff-creates-a-hall-of-shame-for-disputed-takedo wns/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/12/technology/12link.html?pagewanted=print

    http://opiniona tor.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/08/morning-skim-the-pirates-win-the-pirates-win/

    http://www.nytimes .com/2007/12/29/technology/29online.html?pagewanted=print

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/posttech /2007/07/filesharing_a_national_securit_1_wap.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/a rticle/2008/10/30/AR2008103003751.html

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87809 195

    http://www.cbc.ca/technology/technology-blog/2009/04/mike_masnick_online_marketing.html

    ht tp://www.cbc.ca/technology/technology-blog/2009/04/masnick_on_movie_copyright_yes.html

    http://www .cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2009/04/22/michael-masnick-copyright.html

    http://www.cbc.ca/spark/2 011/02/spark-137-february-6-9-2011/

    So, Darryl, will you admit you were wrong?

    No one was insulting Russia, they were insulting you Mike, if you are that big and important, why make such a big deal about some unknown online Russian Streaming site, that is "directed towards the US".

    It's not a "streaming site." It's a cable tv channel that is actually doing pretty well. Perhaps your cable provider doesn't offer it.

    If it is directed at the US, how come no one in the US seems to have heard about it ?


    Um. That's a pretty bold statement. Lots of people have it on their cable systems.

    No one would be interested in interviewing you anyway (IMO)

    Funny, then, that I have two more radio interviews scheduled this week. "No one" must mean something different where you're from.

    It's a damn shame to done post the complete statement, why is that ???


    "to done post"? Huh?

    Let me guess, it does not 'jell' with your idealogy !


    The copyright clause? I have no problem with the clause itself.

    How is it you are apparently the only person on the planet who understands EVERYTHING, everything about computers, everthing about the internet, everything about the music and movie industries.

    I'm not. I don't. I have a *DISCUSSION SITE* which encourages discussion for the very reason that I know I don't understand everything. If I did, why would I let people like you join in and accuse me of being ignorant?

    I guess the only thing we can really be thankfull for is that you appear to have no authority, and are not listened to by anyone who actually have something to do with the real world and how it works.

    I love it when people insist they know who does and who does not listen to me. If you could see my email box this week, I think you'd have a heart attack. Buck Lateral, in the meantime, would probably call his corporate masters and demand a lot more cash if he knew who was contacting me. What's amusing to me is that the more people like you insist that no one important cares what I have to say, the more I seem to be getting calls and emails from all sorts of important people to get my thoughts on things...

     

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  57.  
    identicon
    JMT, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 4:31am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "...all of the internationally respected news organizations that dismiss Masnick as the crackpot he is."

    Care to offer any proof of this? Or is this another of you made-up ad hominem attacks?

     

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  58.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 5:32am

    Interesting bias demonstrated in this thread, xenophobic and hypocritical.

     

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  59.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 5:34am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I'll type slowly in the hope you can follow along. Madow and Beck were offered up as examples of the political boundaries of news reporting with everyone else pretty much falling in between. Perhaps real journalists would consider you a more worthy news source if you didn't try to distort virtually every statement, comment or example you disagree with.

     

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  60.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 5:53am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Ignore him he is just jealous. :)

     

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  61.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 5:56am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Perhaps real journalists would consider you a more worthy news source if you didn't try to distort virtually every statement, comment or example you disagree with."

    Do you mean like CBS, MSNBC, FOX, and the rest of the US news channels?

     

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  62.  
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    Nick Coghlan (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 6:04am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

    A quote applicable to so many situations when it comes to legacy organisations (both corporations and governments) attempting to cope with the cultural shift brought about by the rise of readily available multilateral channels of communication.

     

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  63.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 6:18am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Those (and other) news organizations are staffed by professional journalists and editors with decades of reporting experience. Their creditability is evidenced by the millions of viewers who rely on them to get their news. A 24 year old Russian kid with a freshly minted poly sci degree is hardly in the same league. "

    "Debatable. Just because the ones I listed came first, doesn't mean they own a monopoly on reporting the news. Some people haven't heard of the Real News Network, but they arguably have decent news coverage of Afghanistan along with free speech issues. CNN might be "the world wide leader" but they get just as many stories from other news networks along with their other connections as the newcomers."

    Jay, we were discussing mainstream media vis-a-vis the Russian kid. Now you want to compare mainstream media to Real News Network. WTF? The discussion we'd been having was about HER journalistic credentials, not RNN or other small players. Absent a return to the actual subject at hand, I accept your surrender on that point.

    "Except it doesn't appear that anyone other than the Russian kid thinks Masnick has any particular gravitas on the issue. Including Qatar's state owned news outlet, Al-Jazeera. "

    "Oddly enough, she's the only one in Washington DC that seems to focus on issues that affect the nation, such as bad laws. Hmmm... Fancy that. Looking on the Al-Jazeera site, it seems they're currently looking at online censorship with Facebook right now. They're still effectively looking at the Egyptian revolution and its effects."

    Try Politico, The Hill and the National Journal for starters. Al-Jazeera has some decent coverage of the Middle East, but with a blatantly anti-American bias.

    "Really, corruption money? [citation needed]"

    "Study up"

    Fuck that. You make allegations of corruption and tell me to study up? Your statement is a deliberate lie, calculated to reinforce your argument. You've been called out on it and now what little creditability you had just evaporated.

    "Is it crap, or do you disagree?"

    "When NBC has heavily biased opinions based on who gives them the most money, it's not journalism, it's crap."

    Another lie. I defy you to cite even an reported allegation (other than from you) of trading editorial integrity for money.

    " She's a nobody like Masnick, masquerading as a journalist for the Russian propaganda machine. Obviously you know little of the state of independent news in Russia. Happy now?"

    "Buck, you're a paid lobbyist, who comes on this site to get a rise out of people and to stir up trouble."

    Bullshit

    " Your arguments rely heavily on trying to ridicule opponents, or using dubious, even false information to back it up."

    I only ridicule those who bring it on themselves, and I back shit up. I'm waiting for proof of corruption at NBC news.

    " If the only thing you can do is discount people more successful than you, it's not my problem. Hell, the Russian *President* has already come out looking more moderate with his view than what Alyona "the progagandist" has said about the messed up politics of this legislation. There must be something in the Russian water because they look a helluva lot more sensible than the RIAA or the MPAA and their need to break the internet."

    Break the internet? Please Jay. The only thing this bill will do is take out some of the more casual infringers. Frankly the DNS blocking aspect of the bill is the least important. Cutting off US-sourced ad revenue and payment processing will have a far more profound effect.

    "After seeing how PBS has dealt with Bradley Manning, or what NBC does in regards to the domain seizures, I find their "reputations" circumspect. It goes without saying that you've got to build trust with your audience. NBC lost a lot of mine with their shenanigans. And the last thing that CNN is talking about is internet piracy when they are busy discussing the real thing."

    I think you mean "suspect" not "circumspect" which means watchful and discreet, cautious or prudent. It appears that you judge a news organization's journalistic credentials based on its reporting on a single issue or perhaps a single story. That only serves to make you look foolish and be left defending the Russian kid from RTTV as a serious source of journalism, simply because she served up softballs for Masnick's rant. That's pretty weak.

     

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  64.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 6:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I notice the word blog in many of those links.

    A good example is the cbc.ca interview with Paul Jay, who has gone on to run a thing called The Real News. That is a site or idea pretty much dependant on Al-Jazeera for it's news.

     

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  65.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 6:30am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Throw in BBC, Sky News, CBC, Al-Jazeera and any number of creditable international news organization. The 24 year old Russian kid fronting for state TV doesn't make the cut. Sorry

     

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  66.  
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    DannyB (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 6:31am

    How it works with the recording industry

    First you fight them.
    Then you laugh at them.
    Then you ignore them.
    Then they go away.

     

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  67.  
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    DannyB (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 6:33am

    Re:

    > The 4th Amendment says

    Friend, you use such strange words. This is America! What is this 4th Amendment you speak of?

     

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  68.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 6:40am

    Re:

    Read Rule 65 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and get back to me Perry Mason

     

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  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 7:03am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "I love it when people insist they know who does and who does not listen to me. If you could see my email box this week, I think you'd have a heart attack. Buck Lateral, in the meantime, would probably call his corporate masters and demand a lot more cash if he knew who was contacting me. What's amusing to me is that the more people like you insist that no one important cares what I have to say, the more I seem to be getting calls and emails from all sorts of important people to get my thoughts on things..."

    Glad to hear that Masnick, but doubt the people you consider important have any more ability to affect policy than you do. In any event, if people are aligning closer to you that means they are getting more extreme and desperate, which means the battle is drawing to a close.

    BTW, I heard your criticism of the breadth of the definition of a rogue site and asked if you had a definition of your own to offer. It's going to be hard for you to be taken seriously if all you do is make broad criticisms and never offer alternatives.

     

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  70.  
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    ComputerAddict (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 7:26am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Why should Mike have to Fill in the blanks in a poorly written law?

    How about this alternative.. "The Status-Quo"

    I think everyone is in agreement that illegal activities are happening on the net. Where and what those activities are being debated right now. So let them investigate, obtain warrants, find evidence, charge people, have a trial, and THEN if found guilty of a crime take appropriate actions. Its been done for 200 over years, the process *should* seem familiar to police.

    We should not have to sacrifice our rights to make law enforcement's job easier? I'm sure cracking down on illegal drugs would be a lot easier if Police could just go door to door without cause or warrant, bust it down and check...Oh wait they are already doing that.

     

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  71.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 7:26am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I couldn't play the video in the first WSJ link. Nice kitchen, was it a cooking show? Do you have another link to that?

     

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  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 7:42am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Why should Mike have to Fill in the blanks in a poorly written law?

    How about this alternative.. "The Status-Quo""

    It's hard to believe that anyone is this stupid. Masnick made a specific criticism of the definition of a rogue site in a proposed law. He did not dismiss the proposed bill by saying that the current status quo was sufficient. He characterized the definition as overly broad. So if that is his beef why is unreasonable to say "Ok, what is a better definition"?

    "I think everyone is in agreement that illegal activities are happening on the net. Where and what those activities are being debated right now. So let them investigate, obtain warrants, find evidence, charge people, have a trial, and THEN if found guilty of a crime take appropriate actions. Its been done for 200 over years, the process *should* seem familiar to police."

    For the millionth time; Rule 65 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure affords the SAME protection to an operator of a rogue site as it does ANY CIVIL LITIGANT. What do you want, GREATER protection for foreign rogue site operators than anyone else? That's absurd.

    The good news is that when lawmakers consider opposing points of view, read utter fabrications of how the law works, they dismiss the entire argument as self-serving bullshit that is unsupported by fact and instead relies on falsehoods and distortions.

    Why don't you distill this nonsense into an e-mail to the Judiciary Committee and give them a good laugh.

     

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  73.  
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    The Groove Tiger (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 7:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

     

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  74.  
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    Planespotter (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 7:59am

    Re: Re:

    What this one?

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule65.htm

    You're the expert explain to us why this rule is helpful when the local police are kicking your door in during a random sweep of the neighbourhood.

     

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  75.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 8:01am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    It all still reads like someone trying to get rogue websites a much longer life, as they get left online until all of the court action is taken, the ruling issued, and appeals placed. A great example would be Limewire. How much damage was done (how many files shared through their systems) between the time that the first legal action was started and the whole deal finally ended in court? Years? That is real time years. Online, that is an entire lifetime for most sites.

    The internet is a different situation, and required new rules to handle situations in a more timely manner.

     

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  76.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 8:04am

    Somewhat dissappointed Mike

    6:11 - Why were you not honest and just say the truth. Because they are paid by those industries or promised cushy jobs. Why were you holding back?

     

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  77.  
    identicon
    D.A.R.R.Y.L., Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 8:21am

    Re: Re: Re:

    *** Booting D.A.R.R.Y.L. ***

    FUD Module: Loading...
    Loaded

    Grammar Module: Missing is
    Spelling MOdule: Not avaliably

    *** FUD SPREAD INITIATE ***
    *** MOVE FUD ***
    *** FOR GREAT JUSTICE ***

    Damn, sorry lol... Im sure even you can get at one instand, and easily be 'clean for 5 years, (ie, "5 years of clean conduct").

    Or is it that you are telling porkies or not.

    I do not like ?

    So is it that you are telling porkies or not.

    How do you really think murder is nonviolent crime ?????

    If you do mike..

    How do you really dont know what your talking about if you go out on the issues.

    And what if you just created that diagram to make a copy of it.

    It's called manufacturing under license, like if you just dont like ip" that is not the message.

    We never has slavery here, tough laws, and no one in the open.

    There are no cases here cited that the kkk is not the issue, i know ive won.

    Why is it that you do not like ?

    If it is directed at the time..

    And the other poster is right, in the future with gnu/linux as they require developers to sign over copyright.

    All you are equally liable for that mistake.

    Why is it that you are always at war with so many countries, (or yourselves).

    I guess you have done with this article, done a bit of 'self promotion' to show us all how big and important, why make such a big cheat book that has a better grasp of patents and business than you do my homework for me.

    Who is the real joke here ?

    But for you is something you keep degrading ?

    So if you give it away is no difference between "real property" and interlectual property, or 'real' and 'software'.

    Who is the same every time, even if they conflict with each other.

    Who is the two faces of mike !

    *** OUT OF LITHIUM ERROR ***

     

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  78.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 8:41am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The only thing this bill will do is take out some of the more casual infringers.

    It must be amazing to see into the future, how do you do it?

     

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  79.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 8:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    It would be nice if these new rules weren't written by those who would benefit most from these new rules.

     

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  80.  
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    Almost Anonymous (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 9:01am

    Re: Bizarre

    Unintentionally hilarious! Thanks for the chuckle.

     

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  81.  
    icon
    Jay (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 9:38am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "Now you want to compare mainstream media to Real News Network. WTF? The discussion we'd been having was about HER journalistic credentials, not RNN or other small players. Absent a return to the actual subject at hand, I accept your surrender on that point."

    You're moving the goal posts here. My specific question is how does being with NBC, CBS or CNN make you more or less reputable. There's journalistic integrity from other sources, just as there are biases. CNN does use other sources outside of their network, the same as Alyona would. She's building up her cred just the same as Bryan Collin

    "Fuck that. You make allegations of corruption and tell me to study up? Your statement is a deliberate lie, calculated to reinforce your argument. You've been called out on it and now what little creditability you had just evaporated."

    Nope. Again, study up. They have a particular bias, and it's one sided. I wouldn't trust what they say because it's absolutely crap. Do what you want. They become a mouthpiece for industry, they lose credibility as a journalism site. And if the government decided to pay all three major news sites for political favors, I would not trust their reporting on the news. It's that simple.

    "Break the internet? Please Jay. The only thing this bill will do is take out some of the more casual infringers. Frankly the DNS blocking aspect of the bill is the least important. Cutting off US-sourced ad revenue and payment processing will have a far more profound effect. "

    I've linked to this before. You ignored it. The implications of this are lost on someone that's paid to ignore them. And you still ferret the "us sources" part with no clear endgoal of what this will do for those US based companies. But I guess so long as you're paid to do so, this will still be something you can willfully put behind a counter and forget about. Sad.

    "I think you mean "suspect" not "circumspect" which means watchful and discreet, cautious or prudent. It appears that you judge a news organization's journalistic credentials based on its reporting on a single issue or perhaps a single story. That only serves to make you look foolish and be left defending the Russian kid from RTTV as a serious source of journalism, simply because she served up softballs for Masnick's rant. That's pretty weak."

    Nope, PBS did an amazing job in digging themselves a hole. After watching the Manning ordeal, they lost any and all credibility with me with incredibly biased reporting. Wouldn't expect it any other way, considering the source of their income would be the government. NBC has been losing journalistic integrity for quite some time. CNN is decent but I prefer other sources of information such as NHK, BBC, and most news sites on the web, not TV. Since Alyona is the only one to actually *show* anything about copyright issues, I'll watch. The rest just ferret out opinions about or make propaganda videos.

     

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  82.  
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    The eejit (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 9:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    RT is the international arm. I mean, it's not that fucking difficult, surely.

     

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  83.  
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    The eejit (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 9:46am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Look, it's like asking Unilever about chemical safety laws - chances are, if they could, they's try and get away with whatever they could. Same thing happened with BP - until a rig of theirs blew up.

     

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  84.  
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    The eejit (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 9:47am

    Re: Somewhat dissappointed Mike

    Because it might be untrue. And you know how sensitive those in the seats are...

     

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  85.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 10:32am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I couldn't play the video in the first WSJ link. Nice kitchen, was it a cooking show?

    Hilarious. So you admit to your own technological incompetence, and then use that to attack *me*?

    Dude, seriously, troll harder. You insisted that no credible news organization would want to talk to me. I provided plenty of evidence that they do all the time, and then suddenly it doesn't count because of your own incompetence.

    Wow. No wonder you don't sign your real name to anything you post here.

     

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  86.  
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    Atkray (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 10:57am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Just a friendly tip for you,

    When you resort to calling people by their last name(as you so often do) it makes you sound like you got stuck in the seventh grade, either emotionally or intellectually.

    Possibly both.

     

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  87.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 10:58am

    Re: Re: Somewhat dissappointed Mike

    Because it might be untrue. Yeah I think we have seen enough examples just on TD alone to support that claim. It just seemed to me that Mike was holding back. It may just be human nature to do this. He may have been thinking about future invites and the traffic to the site. After all it is a great opportunity to get page hits. I dont know. Mike?

     

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  88.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 11:10am

    Re: Somewhat dissappointed Mike

    Why were you not honest and just say the truth. Because they are paid by those industries or promised cushy jobs. Why were you holding back?

    I don't think that's true in many many cases. And even in situations where it might be true, it's certainly not explicit.

     

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  89.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 1:25pm

    Re: Re: Somewhat dissappointed Mike

    Fair enough. Thanks Mike.

     

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  90.  
    identicon
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 8:45pm

    Is “darryl” A Manchurian Candidate?

    The main purpose of his postings seems to be to make Mike look like an intellectual giant by comparison.

     

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  91.  
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    BearGriz72 (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 8:51pm

    Re:

    RT (TV network) - From Wikipedia:
    RT, previously known as Russia Today, is a global multilingual television news network based in Russia and funded by the Russian government. RT was the first all-digital Russian TV network. The service is aimed at the overseas market, similar to CCTV-4, DW-TV, France 24 and NHK World, and broadcast through satellite and cable operators throughout the world.

    The network, which cost about $30 million in 2005 to set up and $60 million for its first year of operation, started broadcasting on Dec. 10, 2005 with nearly 100 English-speaking journalists reporting for it worldwide. RT broadcasts from its headquarters in Moscow and its studio in Washington, DC. It also has bureaus in Miami, Los Angeles, London, Paris, Delhi and Tel Aviv. RT is available in over 100 countries spread over five continents via cable, satellite, and online streaming free from the RT website. There are brief commercials, usually 15 seconds each totaling no more than four minutes per hour and scheduled two blocks per hour of one to three minutes each promoting the network. In addition to the Moscow-based flagship RT English-language broadcast, RT also runs RT Arabic (the Arabic-language service), RT America (featuring news and programming oriented to viewers in the United States), and Actualidad RT in Spanish. RT shows round the clock news bulletins, documentaries, talk shows, and debates, as well as sports news and cultural programs on Russia.
    What was your point again???

     

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  92.  
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    BearGriz72 (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 8:52pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "all of the internationally respected news organizations that dismiss Masnick as the crackpot he is"

    {{Citation Needed}}

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  93.  
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    BearGriz72 (profile), Jun 2nd, 2011 @ 9:04pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Mike FTW!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  94.  
    identicon
    Damien Y. Bizeau, Jun 5th, 2011 @ 4:56am

    Eric F. Vermote

    Eric F. Vermote illegally used P2P in Maryland during 2003-2004 (bootlegs & audio files for his car). This man with a IT degree works for NASA & the University of Maryland but went to jail for automobile theft in Florida... he is definitely not at all scrupulous with music too obviously and filed a defamation legal suit in France against me in July 2009 stipulating he never got involved in on-line piracy because he is a manipulative liar & because the case involved never got officially substantiated or couldn't ever be substantiated; my point is that if the Internet had been better regulated by the US government Eric F. Vermote would not have had the opportunity to lie against me and pretend what I accused him of (on-line piracy) is frivolous. On-line piracy cases almost absolutely never get substantiated unfortunately! Damien Bizeau - Classical Music, France.

     

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  95.  
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    Gleep, Jun 5th, 2011 @ 3:16pm

    Ironically, I was a little doubtful as to whether RT (aka Russia Today) was a credible news source after I read this particular Techdirt post. I did the usual google search of RT to see what others said about it and the fact that it was (at least partially) funded by the Russian government raised a red flag for me. However, after reading through the comments, I have to say that I'm willing to give RT the benefit of the doubt (although I'll be taking what it says with a grain of salt like every news publication I read, including US news outlets). I may not agree with Mike Masnick or even RT on all their points of view but after reading all the insults flying around I have come to the conclusion that I respect people who will at least attempt to have a civil discussion on a controversial topic a lot more than people who choose to act in an arrogant or dismissive manner.

    I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, I find that resorting to insults and contempt is the fastest way to ensure that people stop listening to you on ANY topic, whether you have something worthwhile to say or not.

    This has nothing to do with the issue itself, but I found it mildly amusing (and ironic) that after reading the comments that shared my doubts about RT's validity I find that their condescending behavior has convinced me to give RT a chance.

     

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  96.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Jun 13th, 2011 @ 5:02pm

    anything that gives one country control over any aspect of worldwide communication and/or commerce can't be good for intellectual freedom OR property rights globally.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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