RSS
Student Who Found GPS Device On His Car Due To Reddit Comment Sues The FBI
from the don't-mess-with-reddit dept
Last fall, we wrote about the bizarre situation of Yasir Afifi, a student here in California who discovered a GPS tracking device on his car during an oil change, and then posted photos of the device on Reddit. Following that, the FBI showed up at his house demanding the tracking device back. It later turned out that the key reason behind tracking him was a random comment on Reddit that -- if read in context -- did not represent any kind of threat or warning that should have resulted in FBI surveillance. But, of course, since there's almost no oversight on who the FBI gets to spy on, it didn't care and just started tracking Afifi.
Afifi has now sued the government over the tracking action, claiming that it was a violation of his civil rights. There are some differences of opinion in the courts over whether or not the government needs a warrant to place GPS devices on cars, which provides some background for this case. There's a bit of a circuit split on that right now, with the government (obviously) insisting that no warrant is needed. Part of the goal of this lawsuit appears to be to get another ruling on this issue to push it forward. Given the history on this subject, I would guess that Afifi will likely lose the lawsuit, but the possibility that it actually does go in his favor makes the case worth paying attention to.
Afifi has now sued the government over the tracking action, claiming that it was a violation of his civil rights. There are some differences of opinion in the courts over whether or not the government needs a warrant to place GPS devices on cars, which provides some background for this case. There's a bit of a circuit split on that right now, with the government (obviously) insisting that no warrant is needed. Part of the goal of this lawsuit appears to be to get another ruling on this issue to push it forward. Given the history on this subject, I would guess that Afifi will likely lose the lawsuit, but the possibility that it actually does go in his favor makes the case worth paying attention to.
I’m looking for policy...
Application Developers Alliance Applauds Schumer Plan To Introduce Patent Legislation
Policy Resources: Data Privacy & Security
I have an app...
Top 5 Reasons Why Mobile Analytics Is Important
Developer Census: Be Counted. It takes less than two minutes.
I’m looking for research...
Apps, Platforms, Consumer Use
Why Data Is The New Oil, With Dan Foreman Of Lumi Mobile
Reader Comments (rss)
(Flattened / Threaded)
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
attaching it to a chipmunk, on the other hand, might be problematic.
(the order has implications regarding the function of the result. mostly it's ability to move.)
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Oh, sure. Like the poor bastard wouldn't have been immediately charged with transporting classified technology to the enemy and summarily executed....
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
A cruise ship!
Oh, fun!
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
also, your car is a cow.
(legal logic regarding wheel clamps and car towing ends up falling back on some bit of English common law about what happens when your cow wanders into your neighbour's guarden. )
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
McMurdo Station- RPSC
PSC 469 Box 700
APO AP 96599-1035
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
it would serve two purposes... track the hogs movements..
and give the fbi an useful task for a while..
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
It is margin. What I have heard is that this sort of tracking device used privately (say to track a rental car) is legal.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Actually that sounds about right now that I read it. Those 3 letter initial agencies shouldn't have to be bothered by such annoying things as laws and the constitution...
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
It isn't "ignorance of the law", it's the old "black hole in the law" that makes this neither legal or illegal. The same following could be done with unmarked police cars, helicopters, security cameras, and such. Is it such a big jump to use technology to achieve the same results?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Response to: Anonymous Coward on Mar 4th, 2011 @ 2:43pm
You're saying that first the student needs to prove the FBI agents knowingly broke a law, then prove damage. This isn't how civil liberties infringement cases go though.
The question at its core is this: does an American resident's reasonable expectation of privacy under the Fourth Amendment include the history of his movements througout a day?
If the courts agree that this is covered by the reasonable expectation clause, then his civil rights will have been infringed, and his suit will have been successful. And the inverse ourtcome follows.
There's no mens rea required here. The agents aren't being accused of breaking a law; they're accused of violating the student's civil rights.
As for the rental cars: the tracking systems are written into the rental contract. By notifying the renter of the potential presence of tracking an monitoring devices, the rental agencies unset the expectation to privacy.
The fact that the rental agencies notify renters of the tracking devices actually strengthens the student's claim of infringement.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Response to: Anonymous Coward on Mar 4th, 2011 @ 2:43pm
You're saying that first the student needs to prove the FBI agents knowingly broke a law, then prove damage. This isn't how civil liberties infringement cases go though.
The question at its core is this: does an American resident's reasonable expectation of privacy under the Fourth Amendment include the history of his movements througout a day?
If the courts agree that this is covered by the reasonable expectation clause, then his civil rights will have been infringed, and his suit will have been successful. And the inverse ourtcome follows.
There's no mens rea required here. The agents aren't being accused of breaking a law; they're accused of violating the student's civil rights.
As for the rental cars: the tracking systems are written into the rental contract. By notifying the renter of the potential presence of tracking an monitoring devices, the rental agencies unset the expectation to privacy.
The fact that the rental agencies notify renters of the tracking devices actually strengthens the student's claim of infringement.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Btw, have you guys been checking under your cars/the backs of your necks lately? Given the sort of discussions we usually have on TechDirt (including this one, in fact), a few of us are bound to have tracking devices/missiles pointed at our mom's houses! :P
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You are even paying for the device.
Your cellphone.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
after i knew this, i attached mine to a chipmunk and let it go
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
According to the article, he was born in the US. Not sure where they will deport him to since he is a citizen of the US.
Then again, with extraordinary rendition and other unethical/illegal actions done in the past, I suspect him being born in the US and a citizen, they probably can still send him to Mexico like they did with Mark Lyttle.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
what to do with it...
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: what to do with it...
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: what to do with it...
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
*facepalm*
If the FBI is wasting resources chasing anyone with an Arab sounding name who posts anything relating to a bomb on a blog, they really have no clue where to look for terrorists. Makes you wonder how they find kidnappers or murderers.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: *facepalm*
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: *facepalm*
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
I await delivery of my new (and restricted) electronics.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
I say, opt out. The FBI doesn't work for us. We don't help them. It's fair.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
That said, I do N O T think this should be done without a warrant.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
the FBI should change its motto
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Classic
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
If you have no idea what it is or how it got there, do you have any legal obligation to find out or to keep it safe? Is there any law against tampering with or disposing of an unknown device, or unknown origin, that you happen to find attached to your vehicle?
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Afifi is lucky..
I think it would have been better to take the device off his car and put it on a police car or taxi cab.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
But There is a First Amendment Problem
There is another legal issue about whether the government can initiate an investigation of you based on innocuous comments. The government cannot exercise its police authority to simply chill speech it finds disagreeable. It cannot initiate a review of your taxes. It cannot check to see if your parking tickets are all paid. And it cannot attach GPS devices to your car simply based on disagreeable speech.
While a warrant may or may not be needed for an exercise of police authority, it does not mean that the authority gets to be exercised any way the polices wants. There are other constitutional concerns.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
The FBI doesn't think there's any harm
What is the harm collecting information?
BTW: Should've stuck it to a car with out of state plates, sending them to another state.
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
good faith
[ reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]
Add Your Comment