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It's Back: FBI Announcing Desire To Wiretap The Internet
from the but-do-they-really-need-it? dept
Last fall it came out that the feds were going to push for a law that would require wiretap backdoors in all forms of internet communications. As many people pointed out at the time, there are all sorts of reasons why this is a very bad idea, starting with the fact that putting such backdoors into all forms of communication will certainly lead to them being abused. And, when we say "abused," we don't just mean by the feds -- who have a long history of illegally abusing surveillance powers -- but by others as well. If the feds really think that only they will have true access to these backdoors, they're a lot more naive than we thought. This is a catastrophe in waiting.
Either way, it appears that the geniuses over at the Justice Department and the FBI don't seem to care. Despite plenty of people raising these concerns, it's still going forward with a push for such laws. The plan that will be pushed would require any technology provider to offer up a way for law enforcement to spy on "Web-based e-mail, social networking sites, and peer-to-peer communications technology." Of course, the feds already have subpoena powers to get email and social networking info, when appropriate. And, as Kevin Bankston points out in the article linked above, the FBI demanded and received wiretapping abilities over such things a few years ago -- but hasn't explained why that wasn't sufficient. Either way, it's the P2P part that's really questionable, because basically they're asking for a way to wiretap encrypted voice systems like Skype.
What's stunning to me is that the feds don't even seem to consider the inevitable unintended consequences of forcing such wiretapping backdoors into these forms of communications. Such backdoors will almost certainly be hacked by those with malicious intent. If the feds thought Wikileaks and groups like Anonymous were troubling now, just wait until they can also record and listen to a growing number of voice calls.
And, for those who support these kinds of wiretaps, claiming that without them the FBI will "have no way to know" what these people are talking about, that's a bogus complaint. There are all sorts of other ways to figure out what people are doing. It's called basic detective work, and it's what our law enforcement folks are supposed to be doing. Just because it sometimes takes work is no reason to throw our basic privacy rights out the window.
Either way, it appears that the geniuses over at the Justice Department and the FBI don't seem to care. Despite plenty of people raising these concerns, it's still going forward with a push for such laws. The plan that will be pushed would require any technology provider to offer up a way for law enforcement to spy on "Web-based e-mail, social networking sites, and peer-to-peer communications technology." Of course, the feds already have subpoena powers to get email and social networking info, when appropriate. And, as Kevin Bankston points out in the article linked above, the FBI demanded and received wiretapping abilities over such things a few years ago -- but hasn't explained why that wasn't sufficient. Either way, it's the P2P part that's really questionable, because basically they're asking for a way to wiretap encrypted voice systems like Skype.
What's stunning to me is that the feds don't even seem to consider the inevitable unintended consequences of forcing such wiretapping backdoors into these forms of communications. Such backdoors will almost certainly be hacked by those with malicious intent. If the feds thought Wikileaks and groups like Anonymous were troubling now, just wait until they can also record and listen to a growing number of voice calls.
And, for those who support these kinds of wiretaps, claiming that without them the FBI will "have no way to know" what these people are talking about, that's a bogus complaint. There are all sorts of other ways to figure out what people are doing. It's called basic detective work, and it's what our law enforcement folks are supposed to be doing. Just because it sometimes takes work is no reason to throw our basic privacy rights out the window.
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Thinking about all possible points of failure?
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Re: Thinking about all possible points of failure?
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The other unintended consequence will be...
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Re: The other unintended consequence will be...
After all, WDYHTH (what do you have to hide), right? Am I right?
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Re: Re: The other unintended consequence will be...
You are totally correct from the governments point of view. Somehow, I am sure this view is going to change the day the USTR, RIAA, MPAA's, an entire lobbying firms, entire dataset gets dumped to a leaks site.
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That day can't come soon enough. The big question will be who does the leak, Anonymous or some arrestable middleman.
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After all, why risk getting jailed over securely swapping photos of cats?
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Re: Re: The other unintended consequence will be...
and in a related development King Cnut could hold back the tides.
There are already plenty of encryption technologies out there that don't have a backdoor- plus those developed outside US jurisdiction. How do they propose to stop people using those?
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Re: Re: The other unintended consequence will be...
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BAM! POW! Whack! Thud!
Thank-you for playing. Please come again.
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But in this case, I will consider the children, and call you when they are slammin' back the kool-aid.
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There now, the nasty man's gone away. It's ok now poor lickle gubermint *gently strokes governments head*
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One man's catastrophe is another man's bonanza
> have true access to these backdoors, they're
> a lot more naive than we thought.
> This is a catastrophe in waiting.
Catastrophe? I'm sure Anonymous, Wikileaks, and others would disagree.
They might see these secret FIB back doors as "more transparency in government".
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either The They are stupid, or we are...
in nearly all of these decisions, there is a fork in the road:
one unmarked, overgrown footpath is to benefit the 90% at the bottom of the food chain...
one lighted, paved superhighway is to benefit the Korporatocracy, perpetuate their stranglehold of power, and keep us li'l peeps ignorant and powerless...
which road is taken 90%+ of the time ? ? ?
now, do you REALLY think the preponderance of 'our' (sic) leaders do NOT understand the implications of all these evil decisions ? ? ?
are The They REALLY that stoopid they don't see how it punishes us all ?
how it contravenes constitutional intentions ?
how they are advancing totalitarian authoritarianism and not freedom ?
do you REALLY think it is because they didn't have someone smart or observant enough (you know, like all us brainiacs online who have figured this shit out) around them to rescue them from their mistaken intentions ? ? ?
REALLY ? ? ?
no, they do fucked up, anti-citizen, inhumane shit BECAUSE that is the way The They want it...
it doesn't matter if you even have a few principled representatives who think otherwise (do we even have a few anymore?); it doesn't matter if there are reps who truly are ignorant *and* stupid *and/or* inhumane monsters; it doesn't matter because the WHOLE SYSTEM is set up to perpetuate the Korporatocracy's agenda...
we are powerless against the infinitely rich, immortal, immoral monsters known as korporations...
laws/policies/etc do not come into being because it is 'rational', 'fair', 'humane', or constitutes the greatest good for the greatest number...
wake up sheeple, it isn't because they are uninformed (though they may very well be), it isn't because they are stupid (though that may be), it isn't because they just didn't know (though that may be the case), these evil, anti-people decisions happen BECAUSE THAT IS THEY WAY THEY WANT IT, regardless of what 90-99% of want...
democracy ? here ?
what a fucking joke...
time to walk like an egyptian...
(the new home of the brave)
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
artguerrilla@windstream.net
eof
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And don't think that keeping the backdoor secret will help, because hackers have ways to figure these things out and plenty of time to do so. After all, hackers did break HDCP and the PS3.
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Those types aren't special, they're the norm.
So many problems could be solved in a generation if real critical thinking was taught to kids at a very young age.
But of course that won't happen. Every entrenched interest from religions, the military, political parties, and corporations depend on most people not questioning what they say and blindly accepting authority.
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An economic knock on ?
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Re: An economic knock on ?
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from the dumb jokes dept.
How do you wiretap a wireless network?
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The return of Clipper chip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip
I include here by reference all the arguments ever made against the Clipper chip, and all the explanations as to why it would not work.
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Better option- Mass Retirement for the under-technology savvy.
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Re: Better option- Mass Retirement for the under-technology savvy.
It's easier to change the laws, trample on civil rights, and raise taxes for the next generation than it is to ask thousands of dead weight FBI folks to retire.
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This would be a disaster for the U.S. economy. Why buy anything American if you can't ensure the security of data transfer?
This would be a disaster in pretty much every scope of the implementation, which is why I think even if passed it would quickly die a rapid death as people begin to realize how dangerous a hole like this is for their safety.
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Jurisdiction?
It will, of course, also severely limit the US's ability to do business with anyone outside the US, and effect the sales of all US developed software. Or maybe they'll be an install option, "tick this checkobox if you are outside the US and do not wish to share your entire life with a foreign secret police, who have no jurisdiction over you."
ho hum and I thought the UK were bad lol
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The seeds are already out there:
http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/
http://zfoneproject.com/
http: //www.truecrypt.org/
Hell, you should know better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueCrypt#Operation_Satyagraha
Think of the children! Oh god, think of the children!
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basic detective work
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Back door exploits certain?
Don't interpret this as supporting these kinds of things -- I certainly don't. I just don't know how prevalent surreptitious use of these back doors is (not surprising because it's surreptitious).
Scope creep is the real problem (e.g. all the the warrantless wiretapping that's happened) but unfortunately that is not an effective argument to use against wiretap supporters.
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