You Would Think Sony Knew Better Than To Install A Rootkit In The PS3 [Updated]

from the haven't-we-done-this-before? dept

As you probably remember, a few years back there was a huge mess when Sony Music (at the time, Sony BMG) was caught installing a rootkit via the DRM it used on CDs. That created a huge legal headache for Sony, with the company eventually agreeing to replace all those CDs. You would think that Sony, as a whole, would now be a lot more careful about such things. Yet, as TorrentFreak points out, an analysis of the new PS3 firmware suggests that there's a rootkit in there, which will allow Sony to control the PS3 device that you thought (incorrectly) that you bought. It's almost as if Sony is telling people to stop buying PS3s. Update: A lot of folks are claiming this isn't really a rootkit, and that the story has been blown out of proportion. Reading through the details suggest this is absolutely a possibility.


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  1.  
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    crade (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:06pm

    It may enable them to control my PS3, but I don't think is actually allows them to. It's probably still illegal.

     

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  2.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:14pm

    One day you will learn, when you buy a gaming system, you purchase the hardware and get a license for the software. Until you learn that basic idea, you will always fail.

     

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  3.  
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    Anonymoose, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:18pm

    Or that it's safer to jailbreak completely and use community-created firmware.

     

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  4.  
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    Richard (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:18pm

    Re:

    One day you will learn, when you buy a gaming system, you purchase the hardware and get a license for the software. Until you learn that basic idea, you will always fail.

    This goes way beyond that concept. If you own the hardware then you you are free to delete any of their s/w and replace it with your own. This allows them to delete your software and data.

    Until you make the effort to understand that distinction your comments will continue to be irrelevant.

     

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  5.  
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    :Lobo Santo (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:20pm

    Re: Re:

    (please don't feed the trolls.)

     

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  6.  
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    weneedhelp (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:20pm

    Re:

    Essentially Sony can now remotely execute code on the PS3 as soon as you connect.

    Does not sound like they ask.

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:24pm

    There's actually NO proof whatsoever of this. If you read the original article carefully, you'll see that he only suggests and thinks, yet cannot prove it.

    Nice spin Mike. You labeled them guilty with no evidence whatsoever. Do you work for DHS?

     

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  8.  
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    Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:32pm

    Back Door

    "Rootkit" has a much more specific meaning than it's used for here. Rootkits hide things from or screw with the operating system in ways not intended by design, e.g. what Sony did in the past with music CDs. It's impossible by definition for the operating system or firmware itself to contain a rootkit, as all intended behavior is intended.

    The term people are looking for is "back door", which can be applied to makers of something giving themselves greater access to the thing than users are aware of or wish to permit.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:34pm

    Re: Re:

    As long as you are using their software,their firmware, and operating with it, you operate inside their license (not ownership). You do not own the code.

    What is being called a "rootkit" probably isn't anything like that, but it's a great buzzword that gets TD a few more views and a few most posts from the freetard children.

     

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  10.  
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    The eejit (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:35pm

    Re:

    No, but it doesn't look good, given Sony's history. Remember, the implication of wrongdoing is equally as bad to a brand as actual wrongdoing.

    Sony is essentially pissing away future customers, in order to get more money now. See how that's working for the bankers.

     

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  11.  
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    zegota (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:52pm

    Yes, that ten-line IRC chat certainly proves it. -_-

     

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  12.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:54pm

    Re:

    The whole problem with that is that if you make the hardware and control the software you create a perverse situation in which you control the hardware that you've already sold.

     

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  13.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 2:58pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    We get it. Owning things is stupid.

     

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  14.  
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    crade (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:05pm

    Re: Back Door

    A rootkit is just a type of backdoor that is used to get root access not authorized by the legimitate system admin. Hiding from the OS is generally assumed to be neccessary for a rootkit but only because it is assumed the OS is reporting to the admin, but what is actually important is to avoid detection and removal of the backdoor by the admin.

     

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    PRMan, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:07pm

    Re: Back Door

    If they are installing hidden code that allows them to secretly do things on everyone's PS3 without the users being aware (except thanks to a hacker that discovered it), then it is a rootkit by your own definition.

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:15pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Hey look mom, it's one of those irrelevant internet trolls.

     

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  17.  
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    crade (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:20pm

    Re:

    If you read *this* article carefully (or even carelessly), you'll see that "only suggests and thinks" is exactly what Mike says the original article does.

     

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  18.  
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    Chargone (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:22pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    *blinks*
    well, there goes any relevance the concept of IP ever had :D

     

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  19.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:24pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Says the anonymous coward.

     

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  20.  
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    Ron Rezendes (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:29pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    ...to the other Anonymous Coward!

     

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  21.  
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    btrussell (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:30pm

    "As you probably remember..."
    I will never forget!

    I always remind others too!

    sony owes me large.

     

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  22.  
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    blah, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:35pm

    Not exactly a "rootkit"

    Seems like someone assigned the term "rootkit" arbitrarily here.

    What this code update appears to do (based on clicking a couple links and *reading*) is add the ability for PSN to execute some code on the PS3 at login time using this new fucntionality.

    I seems the idea is: if the code fails to run, an invalid response is returned to the server, and PSN fails the connection.

    In theory, something like that would prevent CFW circumvention of the new firmware while still allowing access to PSN, and Sony can change their payload regularly to prevent CFW from mimic'ing the response.

    This would also give them the ability to brick or blacklist hacked consoles in the future (which I would think anyone hacking their machine and trying to connect to PSN would expect to happen...)

    If you don't use PSN, I don't see the problem.

     

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  23.  
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    The eejit (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:36pm

    Re:

    No, it's not conclusive proof, but when you know that the new firmware is due out ina few weeks at most, it looks odd.

     

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  24.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:36pm

    Re:

    I was wondering wouldn't that be computer trespass if the executed code on your system without telling you? (fig 2)

    NY CLS Penal 156.10 Computer trespass

    A person is guilty of computer trespass when he or she knowingly uses [fig 1] , causes to be used, or accesses a computer [fig 2] , computer service, or computer network without authorization and:

    1. he or she does so with an intent to commit or attempt to commit or further the commission of any felony; or

    2. he or she thereby knowingly gains access to computer material.

     

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  25.  
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    \r (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:42pm

    Re: Back Door

    Justin, I do believe that a root kit provides a method of access (typically a suite of tools and programs) to acquire elevated privileges regardless of where or where it may not presently reside in 'kit' form. A back door can be used to either directly access those privileges via a method prepared and lodged in code present on any given running system or otherwise accessed via less intrusive means as a kit in waiting in order to (attempt to) acquire said elevated privileges (side door) as such it is far from impossible for an OS or FW to contain (house) a (root) kits in waiting. Once you breach a system you'll often carry your kit in with you. Semantics do not always warrant evaluation but don't get it wrong when you do.\r

     

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  26.  
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    DJ (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:43pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "I see" said the blind man....

     

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  27.  
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    illDecree (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:45pm

    forget the word 'suggest'?

    an analysis of the new PS3 firmware suggests that there's a rootkit in there


    did you miss the word 'suggests'? Mike wasn't at all making the accusation that there is, in fact, a root kit in the firmware.

     

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  28.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:50pm

    How would someone (aside from Sony) use this to take over your PS3 without, say, hacking your router first?

     

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  29.  
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    Mike Masnick (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:50pm

    Updated the post

    Good points by folks here and elsewhere about how calling this a "rootkit" might be a bit extreme. I've added an update to the post.

     

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  30.  
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    DJ (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:51pm

    Re: Re:

    The problem we, the users, run into is that few of us ever actually read the user agreement. As such, and according to many local laws, if it's in the user agreement that we "knowingly grant authorization...." -- or however it might be worded -- then we're kinda SOL in the legal world.

    So how do we fight back? Simple, stop buying PS3; you could even go so far as to boycott Sony altogether. I'm not calling for a Sony boycott (I own many of their products), but if PS3 is potentially compromised, don't use it. Simple.

     

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  31.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:52pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    an anonymous coward complaining about an anonymous coward....

     

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  32.  
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    DJ (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:53pm

    Re:

    Unless you don't know how (me) or you just don't want to (inaction is easier than action)

     

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  33.  
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    DJ (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:53pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    It's cowardly I tell you.

     

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  34.  
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    DJ (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:56pm

    Re:

    Hi TAM!

     

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  35.  
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    DJ (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 3:58pm

    Re: Back Door

    I'm not exactly what you would call "tech savvy", so I had to look it up; and I seem to know more about it than you do. Odd.
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS338&defl=en&q=define:Rootkit&am p;sa=X&ei=9jxLTbffFZDCsAOm-MDiCg&ved=0CBwQkAE

     

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  36.  
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    sehlat (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:03pm

    If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

    Then it's a rootkit. :)

     

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  37.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:09pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Really?

    What do you think about car diagnostics, can automakers make you go to only authorized mechanics now and make you pay a premium for doing it?

    Do you like that?

     

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  38.  
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    Richard (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:12pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    As long as you are using their software,their firmware, and operating with it, you operate inside their license (not ownership). You do not own the code.
    The license gives you the right to run their code on your hardware.

    It doesn't give them the right to run other code on your hardware when you don't want them to.

    Code that runs when the owner of the hardware doesn't want it to has a name - it is called malware and it is not legal.

     

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  39.  
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    sonyyoco, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:13pm

    Suggestions that Sony has added a rootkit with the latest firmware update to its PS3 console have been denounced as bunkum by a leading gaming security expert.

    Rumours began flying on the interwebs earlier this week that the official 3.56 firmware upgrade for Sony's consoles gave the consumer electronics giant the ability to execute code on the PS3 as soon as a user goes online.

    Sony can use the technology to verify system files or to look for home-brewed games, it was suggested. More sinister still, it was warned, the code can be updated without further firmware updates.

    The more excitable elements of the gamer community as well as tech blogs and gaming sites cried foul over the move, with many describing it as the introduction of hidden "rootkit-style" functionality.

    But Chris Boyd, a security researcher at GFI Security who has studied the security of online games for several years, points out the development is not new since Sony wrote the ability for it to do remote updates into its terms and conditions since at least 2006.

    "It's been known for a while that a networked PS3 will contact Sony servers at start up (whether it has an active PlayStation network account on it or not), which performs various tasks related to error logs, updates and other activities," Boyd (aka Paperghost) told El Reg.

    Anyone using a PS3 agrees in the terms of service to allow their console to perform these tasks.

    Mark Russinovich found a rootkit in Sony CDs back in 2005, provoking a huge privacy outcry. This has led some enthusiasts and bloggers to suggest that history is repeating itself with the PS3 firmware upgrade.

    The PS3 firmware upgrade is nothing like as malign, argues Boyd, who has spoken on X-Box and online gaming security at several security conferences. "Comparing a last ditch attempt at blocking hacks and custom firmware to the truly dreadful CD rootkit is mind boggling."

    Sony bundled ill-conceived copy-protection on its music CDs that meant a rootkit was installed if they were played on Windows PCs. This created a vulnerability on affected machines later latched onto by malware writers. Sony withdrew the technology following an outcry.

    Comparing this to the PS3 firmware update misunderstands what has actually been done or the practical risks of the move, according to Boyd.

    "This is only really a concern if you're interested in modding - otherwise I'm not convinced there's a 'threat' as such," Boyd told El Reg. "I'm still waiting for someone to explain how this 'PS3 rootkit' could be used to run unsigned malicious code on a non-jailbroken box," he added.

    Sony recently earned the enmity of the gamer and security communities by suing hackers who figured out a way to run unsigned code on PlayStation 3 consoles without the use of a dongle. The blogiverse has been inclined to ascribe the worst possible motives to anything Sony has done with a console since, regardless of whether it's actually new or how what it's doing sits against other potential threats.

    Boyd, who has been vocal in criticising the lawsuits against the PS3 hackers such as geohot, nonetheless argues that gamers need to get a grip. "People will happily download homebrew from Basement Bob which could steal logins/credit card details, but code from the console maker is evil?"

     

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  40.  
    identicon
    sonyyoco, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:13pm

    Suggestions that Sony has added a rootkit with the latest firmware update to its PS3 console have been denounced as bunkum by a leading gaming security expert.

    Rumours began flying on the interwebs earlier this week that the official 3.56 firmware upgrade for Sony's consoles gave the consumer electronics giant the ability to execute code on the PS3 as soon as a user goes online.

    Sony can use the technology to verify system files or to look for home-brewed games, it was suggested. More sinister still, it was warned, the code can be updated without further firmware updates.

    The more excitable elements of the gamer community as well as tech blogs and gaming sites cried foul over the move, with many describing it as the introduction of hidden "rootkit-style" functionality.

    But Chris Boyd, a security researcher at GFI Security who has studied the security of online games for several years, points out the development is not new since Sony wrote the ability for it to do remote updates into its terms and conditions since at least 2006.

    "It's been known for a while that a networked PS3 will contact Sony servers at start up (whether it has an active PlayStation network account on it or not), which performs various tasks related to error logs, updates and other activities," Boyd (aka Paperghost) told El Reg.

    Anyone using a PS3 agrees in the terms of service to allow their console to perform these tasks.

    Mark Russinovich found a rootkit in Sony CDs back in 2005, provoking a huge privacy outcry. This has led some enthusiasts and bloggers to suggest that history is repeating itself with the PS3 firmware upgrade.

    The PS3 firmware upgrade is nothing like as malign, argues Boyd, who has spoken on X-Box and online gaming security at several security conferences. "Comparing a last ditch attempt at blocking hacks and custom firmware to the truly dreadful CD rootkit is mind boggling."

    Sony bundled ill-conceived copy-protection on its music CDs that meant a rootkit was installed if they were played on Windows PCs. This created a vulnerability on affected machines later latched onto by malware writers. Sony withdrew the technology following an outcry.

    Comparing this to the PS3 firmware update misunderstands what has actually been done or the practical risks of the move, according to Boyd.

    "This is only really a concern if you're interested in modding - otherwise I'm not convinced there's a 'threat' as such," Boyd told El Reg. "I'm still waiting for someone to explain how this 'PS3 rootkit' could be used to run unsigned malicious code on a non-jailbroken box," he added.

    Sony recently earned the enmity of the gamer and security communities by suing hackers who figured out a way to run unsigned code on PlayStation 3 consoles without the use of a dongle. The blogiverse has been inclined to ascribe the worst possible motives to anything Sony has done with a console since, regardless of whether it's actually new or how what it's doing sits against other potential threats.

    Boyd, who has been vocal in criticising the lawsuits against the PS3 hackers such as geohot, nonetheless argues that gamers need to get a grip. "People will happily download homebrew from Basement Bob which could steal logins/credit card details, but code from the console maker is evil?"

     

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  41.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:16pm

    Re:

    I hope your car forces you to connect to the internet to work.

    OBD-II

    You don't own the software remember?

     

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  42.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:16pm

    Re: Not exactly a "rootkit"

    In other words, Sony is trying to make sure that only legal users of the consoles (unmodified) can play as part of their network. Seems very reasonable and not at all like a rootkit.

    Seems like we have the Masnick Effect going on again!

     

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  43.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:18pm

    Re: Updated the post

    Good points by folks here and elsewhere about how calling this a "rootkit" might be a bit extreme. I've added an update to the post.

    The argument that it isn't a rootkit basically boils down to saying it isn't because Sony buried permission for themselves to do this in their terms and conditions. In all other ways it's a rootkit.

     

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  44.  
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    sonyyoco, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:19pm

    The hacking community's rational that their work is purely for homebrew purposes. "I mean, okay, that's their argument but they know the larger implication to the players who don't want that and the people who can now modify their game data."

     

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  45.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:20pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    But haven't EULA been thrown out in the past because you have to open the box to read them?

     

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  46.  
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    TheStupidOne, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:23pm

    Re:

    sonyyoco sued for copyright infringement and double posting in 3 ... 2 ... 1

     

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  47.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:23pm

    Re: Re: Not exactly a "rootkit"

    You should try editing the Wikipedia page again dude, people there didn't buy your excuses and deleted your additions :)

     

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  48.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:24pm

    I think it's quite funny that so many tech sites ran with this story considering it's based on the findings of one person. I would have at least waited until it had been confirmed by someone else before running it.

    Sensationalist headlines are more important than journalistic integrity these days I guess.

     

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  49.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:28pm

    Ya know if your like me and don't buy crap from Sony, ya don't have to worry about rootkits and other sony crap.

     

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  50.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:33pm

    Re: Back Door

    This from a guy who complains on his blog that his parents are not happy about their new solar panels being bright white, only to later update that they were just seeing the reflection of clouds.

     

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  51.  
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    Rekrul, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 4:51pm

    Re:

    The hacking community's rational that their work is purely for homebrew purposes. "I mean, okay, that's their argument but they know the larger implication to the players who don't want that and the people who can now modify their game data."

    Yeah, you can't have just anyone writing games for your system or modifying existing games. Look at what a disaster that's been for computers. Oh wait...

     

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  52.  
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    Mikael (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 5:07pm

    Did anyone actually read the source?

    I'm curious if anyone here actually read the source article (including Mike). From what I got out of reading it, this "rootkit" as it was put, it to enable Sony to be able to check your system to see if you're running custom firmware prior to connecting to the PSN. They even point out in the article that it's the same method Microsoft uses to id modded consoles so they can ban their MAC address.

    I'm all for hacking and modding, but you have to understand there are consequences to doing so with a console like this. I modded my original xbox so I could install emulators on it and copy my games to the hard drive for faster loading. I never got online with it so it didn't matter to me. Now, I don't see a need to mod my PS3 since the benefit to me outweighs the consequence. I don't like that Sony is able to execute this code each time I connect, but if all it's doing is making sure I don't have a modded console I'm fine with it. The first time I notice stuff missing from my system (including files stored on the drive), THAT's when I'll have a problem with it.

     

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  53.  
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    Christopher (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 6:15pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Not so. Many of those EULA's have been looked upon by courts and thrown out because you have to open the box to read them, as the other poster pointed out.

    You are forgetting that if EULA's come into conflict with other law, they are null and void.

     

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  54.  
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    Christopher (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 6:19pm

    Re: Re: Updated the post

    Agreed, Anonymous. The fact is that this is a rootkit by definition, whether or not the EULA (which almost no one reads AND has been declared unenforceable in several courts) says that Sony has the right to put this on your PS3.

     

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  55.  
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    Christopher (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 6:22pm

    Re: Did anyone actually read the source?

    There is no reason to just banned all modified consoles. They should look to see if someone's console is sending data that is 'strange' back to the servers (like they are being hit and it is not coming up as damage) in order to ban people.

    Not when they could be using custom firmware to do anything from backup up their legally bought games to enabling running from the hard drive without a disc in the drive to running homebrew software to various other things.

     

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  56.  
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    Kurata, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 6:33pm

    Re: Re:

    Considering you accepted the ToS, and other stuff, which apparently states that Sony has a right to access your system, this wouldn't apply as you implicitly agree to their accesses, thus giving them authorization.

    As such, the NY CLS Penal 156.10 Computer trespass is void in this case.
    Then again, I do not know the value of silence in USA, but I know in France, this would mean agreeing to that line.

     

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  57.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 6:37pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So that leads me back to my first question.

    Can we file computer trespass charges against someone who accesses our system without our knowledge if the EULA was not in plain sight, and not readable on the package, if they upgrade our system?

    This goes back to SONY and the removal of the secondary OS option.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 6:45pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Think about it this way. If IBM removed the ability to run Windows and only allowed you to run Linux what would happen to them. The gaming system and the IBM are both just computers. Disabling the ability to run windows is the same thing SONY did.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 6:46pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Think about it this way. If Compaq removed the ability to run Windows and only allowed you to run Linux what would happen to them. The gaming system and the Compaq are both just computers. Disabling the ability to run windows is the same thing SONY did.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 7:23pm

    Re: Re: Did anyone actually read the source?

    Your idea is nice, but not workable. It would mean that the Sony staff would have to spend their life looking at every possible "abuse" and write code to try to block it. Talk about whack a mole.

    Instead, they do the wise thing: if you mod your console, if you are running odd programming, or if the version of the software doesn't match the real file size and requirements, then you are turfed. End of discussion. You can use your console as you want, you just can't use it on the PSN. You opted out.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    The Groove Tiger (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 7:26pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "I hear ya" replied the deaf man.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Aerilus, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 7:30pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "i smell ya", said the man with Anosmia

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    identicon
    Aerilus, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 7:35pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I would imagine that if its a criminal act that it is prosecuted by the government and you can't waive your right now if its civil (i see penal code so guessing criminal) then it might hold up.you cant let some one murder you when you have a painful terminal condition. so who has more connections in the government than sony to make them get off their butt and prosecute probably not many people.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    icon
    G Thompson (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 7:53pm

    Re: Not exactly a "rootkit"

    Not so sure about The USA (Strange and basically non existant consumer laws) but for a company to knowingly "brick" a console that stops the console from working at all is both a criminal offence and tortous behaviour (civil wrong) in Europe and Australia/NZ

    Also the remote execution of code that suggests they are looking what is on the machine, which in the case of the PS3 has also the ability to store photos, audio, videos of ANYTHING the user creates or has rights to would in all likely come under scrutiny of high privacy laws, quiet enjoyment, and unauthorised access statutes (criminal and civil) especially in the EU.

    The EULA has no legal basis what so ever since you can not sign away your statutory rights in any contract, especially one that is highly unilateral.

    Sony have the ability to deny anyone access to their online network (PSN) for any legal reason since it is classified as their property space, though they do not have the right to deny anyone the use of their system in any other way that that user sees fit.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    icon
    harbingerofdoom (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 8:23pm

    Re:

    these days?
    its like you have just come out from whatever cave you have been living in for the past 30 years to come to this revelation.

    there have been hit songs written about this fact that are old enough to be on the classic rock stations...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    icon
    crade (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 8:26pm

    "this isn't really a rootkit, and that the story has been blown out of proportion. Reading through the details suggest this is absolutely a possibility."

    Basically what they seem to say is there is no (known) security vulnerability such that people other than Sony can take over your machine, and Sony taking over your machine is "fine" since Sony forced everyone to agree to giving Sony control over their machine in their Terms of whatever agreement. I still don't get how anyone takes those "agreements" that are done under duress after money changed hands and without any form of understanding or consent seriously. I sure as hell don't. So my baby cousin pushed the X button on the stupid controller while some moronic demands were up there. Big whoop.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    icon
    harbingerofdoom (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 8:30pm

    Re: Re: Did anyone actually read the source?

    completely unworkable. even with the current checks they do there are still plenty of people running modded code in order to enable cheats during online play.
    as someone that enjoys the multiplayer aspect of some games its pretty frustrating when you empty an entire clip into someone, get 8 to 10 registered hits and they just saunter up to you and knife you while you are stuck reloading. and this happens with all the current checks in place.

    im all for the idea that you own the hardware you bought, but im also all for the idea that if you mod it, you are willingly withdrawing yourself from online multi-player via official servers.

    and while i have a huge problem with sony, microsoft and nintendo going all legal on those who have modded their hardware, i have no issue at all with any of them banning consoles. especially since its in the TOS that modded equipment is not allowed to connect.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    icon
    crade (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 8:31pm

    Re: Re: Re: Did anyone actually read the source?

    They are reneging on their promise to support other operating systems and are fraudulent and pathetic.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 8:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The blind leading the blind.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 8:37pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    In other words it's only illegal for those who don't contribute enough in campaign contributions to get the government to leave them alone. Got ya.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 10:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not exactly a "rootkit"

    The wikipedia entry is valid, just Mike's minions keep removing the truth. That's why his bio is only a stub.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 10:35pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Did anyone actually read the source?

    No, they have realizes that allowing other operating systems creates a giant security hole, one that has to be fixed.

    If you want to use your PS3 with other operating systems, you cannot play online (because you must be upgraded). You have a choice.

    Sony is obliged to address security concerns, otherwise you would be reading on TD how Sony allowed hackers to take over your PS3.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    icon
    teka (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 11:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Not exactly a "rootkit"

    that is right. Evil minions are out to get you and prevent you from spreading the truth.

    Mike also shoots brain-signals from his orbiting death station, so cinch that aluminum foil down Tight on your head and bedtime, ok?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    icon
    Christopher (profile), Feb 3rd, 2011 @ 11:57pm

    Re:

    Some judges agree with you about that. There have been rulings in Maryland, Delaware and New Jersey in the past that have voided EULA's and said, basically, that a EULA is unenforceable unless it can be read BEFORE you open the box that something comes in and return the thing immediately if you don't like the EULA.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    icon
    The eejit (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 12:19am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Did anyone actually read the source?

    Yuo obviously haven't been following the class action suit in the UK over Modern Warfare 2, about bugs and exploits online that haven't been fixed.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    icon
    velox (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 12:45am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Not exactly a "rootkit"

    "The wikipedia entry is valid"
    You obviously don't know anything about Wikipedia. It's very unlikely that anyone from TD removed your opinion from Mike Masnik's page. Unlike this place, you can't just say whatever you want on Wikipedia, because if it looks like you used unreferenced material, somebody will be around in about 15 minutes to clean out your trash.

    Every single bit of Wikipedia is supposed to be referenced from externally verifiable published material.
    You can't put in things you think are true.
    You can't put in the results of your own unpublished research, even if it is true.
    You can't put in opinions or personal attacks against living persons -- even if you really, really hate them, and even if they really, really are bad guys.

    And no, a link to a pseudonymous comment in a blog does not constitute a reputable source.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    icon
    velox (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 12:56am

    Re: Re:

    30 years?? How about far longer than that.
    For a bit older example, Try the Spanish American War.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 4th, 2011 @ 1:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Did anyone actually read the source?

    Sony logic:

    People might be able to use their own property as they see fit = giant security hole

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    icon
    Marcel de Jong (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 2:54am

    Re:

    If you own the hardware, why then do these companies balk at the modchip industry? If it's my hardware and I want to mod it, I'm free to do so, right?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    identicon
    Lee, Feb 4th, 2011 @ 5:28am

    Falsehoods

    When you run FALSE stories like this, it reflects badly on your other journalism and makes me doubt your integrity.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 4th, 2011 @ 5:37am

    SONY : Once a corrupt company always a corrupt company.

    STOP BUYING SONY PRODUCTS OR THEY WILL NEVER GO AWAY AND GET THE HELL OUT OF MY PURCHASED PRODUCTS.

    ROOTKITS ON AUDIO CDS
    ROOTKITS ON DRM - SECUROM

    THIS COMPANY IS SHADY, ANYONE DOING BIZ WITH THEM DESERVERS WHAT THEY GET SINCE IT HAS BEEN KNOWN SINCE 85 THAT THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS.

    BOYCOTT SONY!
    BOYCOTT SONY!
    BOYCOTT SONY!
    BOYCOTT SONY!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    icon
    Shadojak (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 5:45am

    Re: Falsehoods

    Jeezus, no one can read anymore.

    And Just for your consideration...WHY are you renting a PS3?

    Since, according to their logic, you don't own it.

    You are just responsible for the repair costs it might need.

    But if you want to play PS3 games, you must rent it from them, on a longterm basis.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    icon
    slander (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 5:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "I see" said the blind man....
    ...as he picked up his hammer and saw.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    icon
    crade (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 6:35am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Did anyone actually read the source?

    No, they are reneging on their promise either way. They promised both features, not one or the other.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85.  
    icon
    crade (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 6:45am

    Re: Re:

    I'm still waiting for someone to put "you agree to pay us 40 million$" in their "agreement" and try to enforce it when 90% of their customers "agree".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 6:46am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "so who has more connections in the government than sony to make them get off their butt and prosecute probably not many people."

    If I am remembering correctly, anyone can walk in front of a grand jury and file as a private citizen. If the DA or prosecutor fails to follow through there is always the lawyers disciplinary board or committee.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    icon
    btr1701 (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 9:25am

    Re: Re: Re:

    > if it's in the user agreement that we "knowingly
    > grant authorization...."

    Just because I grant authorization at some point doesn't mean I can never revoke it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  88.  
    icon
    Gwiz (profile), Feb 4th, 2011 @ 12:58pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    As long as you are using their software,their firmware, and operating with it, you operate inside their license (not ownership). You do not own the code.

    This is something I find fascinating with the Pro-IP crowd.

    They want Intellectual Property to be considered property when they own it, but want it to be considered something else when they sell it to an end user.

    When I buy real property, say a car, I am free to modify it, tear it apart to see how they built it, or whatever.

    When I purchase Intellectual property, then all of a sudden there all these restrictions placed on me about what I can or cannot do.

    It's like saying "We want Intellectual Property to be considered property ONLY when it benefits us."

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  89.  
    identicon
    S, Feb 4th, 2011 @ 1:41pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    That IS what they're saying. It's blind greed and hypocrisy, or the gullible and weak minded echoing the blindly greedy and hypocritical because they can't think for themselves.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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