Share/E-mail This Story

Email This



PC Mag Responds To Legacy Recording Industry's 'Complaint' Letter

from the hello,-we're-the-press dept

We recently wrote about a bizarre and mis-targeted complaint letter sent by the bosses of pretty much every old school legacy music industry lobbying/trade group, officially sent to Ziff Davis to complain about two articles concerning Limewire alternatives, suggesting that the articles were promoting unauthorized copyright infringement. Of course, as we noted, these old school recording industry bosses were so upset, they failed to notice that one of the articles in question wasn't even published by PC Mag (the target of the letter), but by PC World, a competing publication put out by an entirely different company, IDG.

Apparently, in their haste to send a complaint to the wrong publisher, these geniuses of the recording industry also failed to leave an address for a reply letter, so PC Mag's Lance Ulanoff responded with a public response letter, which basically tells all of those organizations to learn what it means to be the press reporting on a topic, as opposed to an advocate pushing a particular viewpoint:
The story isn't encouraging or discouraging anything. That's not our role. PCMag's job is to cover all aspects of technology, which includes the products, services and activities that some groups and individuals might deem objectionable. We covered these Limewire alternatives because we knew they would be of interest to our readers. We understand that some might use them to illegally download content. We cannot encourage that action, but also cannot stop it. Reporting on the existence of these services does neither.

We have, obviously, written about many online and offline services, including some that these groups might consider legitimate or "legal." However, the fact is that some users store and manage illegally gained content in music applications like iTunes. We would not stop covering these utilities simply because some users place illegal or even inappropriate content in them.
More importantly, Ulanoff points out the same thing we did in questioning what the hell these industry groups thought they would accomplish in suggesting the press not cover a story:
It worries me that the music industry took this action, because it reeks of desperation. The RIAA and other music industry organizations have spent the better part of the decade fighting the digital transition, with only a shrinking business to show for it. In recent years, though, the fist of anger has turned into at least one open hand as the music industry embraces the once shunned digital music industry. Unfortunately, that warm embrace, and the change that comes with it, are not happening fast enough. Clearly the music industry is still losing money to music piracy and even the recalibrated profit margins brought on by legal music sharing services.

It's time for these music execs to pull their collective heads out of the sand and fully acknowledge and accept all the ways their industry has changed. They also have to understand that nothing will stop technology's inexorable march forward. Things will continue to change. Music downloads and sharing will never go away. These execs have to find a way to use all that technology allows and make a business that rivals the good old days of vinyl, cassette tape and even CDs.

We will continue to cover it all--as we must.
Not a particularly surprising response, but kudos to PC Mag for sticking to its principles, and not feeling bullied by these industry folks.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    icon
    Rose M. Welch (profile), Nov 29th, 2010 @ 7:48pm

    Favorite line?

    It's time for these music execs to pull their collective heads out of... the sand.

    You know what they wanted to say, right? :P

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Howard, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:08pm

    "out of the sand" lol

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:26pm

    As usual, no alternative is presented to them. Just another variation on "you need to find a new business model".

    A business can't compete in a market if there is rampant illegal activity skewing that market.

    It is obvious to everyone on both sides of the issue that there isn't "another business model". That's why enforcement will be the avenue that is exercised.

    If the pirates don't like that option, they're free to provide a valid alternative business model for the labels.

    No surprise that hasn't happened yet.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:33pm

    It isn't obvious to people on both sides (whichever sides you're talking about). Many artists have been successful exploring different business models. These business models may not be the type that support the **AAs, but that does not mean they aren't successful.

    Artists connecting directly with fans seems to be the future.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    icon
    Jim O (profile), Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:41pm

    Re:

    The pirates have provided a valid alternative. Until the music industries choose to compete, the pirates will continue to pirate music. It isn't perfect, but that's the way it is going to be.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:42pm

    Re:

    How will enforcement help artists?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    identicon
    Sun, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:44pm

    Internet has made the transaction process extremely efficient. Record industry is no longer relevant for music creation, music promotion, nor music distribution. If you look at how prices have dropped on commodities due to the china effect, music is just the same. Kanye west is $3.99 on amazon. That's the future. Let the riaa die, they don't want to change.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:49pm

    Re:

    There isn't anything new about "connecting with fans".

    Promotion, merch, meet and greets, etc., and all variations thereof, have been around forever.

    The fact that no new model has appeared says everything that needs to be said about why the current model works fine- when market forces aren't skewed by illegal activity.

    The clampdown on piracy isn't going to go away. In fact, it's just beginning.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    icon
    Chargone (profile), Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:49pm

    Re:

    i invite you to browse techdirt's archives for a large number of success stories with regards to just that. for the musicians. you know, the people these organisations supposedly represent and rip off on a regular basis?

    the fact is that the middle man of the recording 'industry' is basically hosed unless they realise that their job is not selling shiny plastic disks, or even music, really. it's facilitating the Musicians ability to make money off their work. something this so called industry hasn't done in a Long time. (well, the larger and loud parts of it).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:51pm

    Re: Re:

    Artists make money from selling their recorded music when people don't rip it off instead.

    Saying otherwise reeks of willful ignorance.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:59pm

    Re: Re:

    Using random examples of nefarious activity by record labels to paint the entire industry with a broad brush is a failed, and stale logical fallacy.

    I'm familiar with the largely unknown artists this blog tries to use in their drop-in-the-ocean examples.

    Except they're all just using variations on the age-old "promotional gimmick" marketing angle.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    icon
    Chargone (profile), Nov 29th, 2010 @ 9:59pm

    Re: Re:

    or perhaps it could just be that these old things work fine, and that there was a ridiculous bubble that allowed the last little while's silliness in the industry, which has come to an end?

    monopoly controls mask other natural market tendencies. copyright is a monopoly. the 'illegal activity' is the result of the internet treating a monopoly on information as censorship, assessing censorship as damage, and routing around it. the illegal activity here isn't skewing the market. the LAWS are skewing the market and reality, and thus the market, is neatly routing around it.

    the technology no longer permits the ridiculousness of the 'old' model (which is crazy 'new' when compared to the history of Music.) it is, in fact, encouraging a return to older models, where musicians didn't become millionaires by winning the label lottery, but instead made a (fairly basic) living if they were any good, and a good one if they had other skills to combine with their artistic ability.

    so, large corporations who serve little purpose but to screw all parties to pay disinterested and short term profit mad shareholders and executives fall by the wayside. so what? the skills of pretty much every worker other than the musicians themselves in that system carry over to other industries fairly well, and the Musicians are only getting screwed if they follow the label pattern of bitching and suing rather than looking at how they make their money and adapting.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    icon
    harbingerofdoom (profile), Nov 29th, 2010 @ 10:19pm

    Re:

    ya know...

    i find it interesting that anyone would say anything such as "as usual no alternative is provided".

    it is not anyone elses job to provide alternatives to major corporations in order for them to stay relevant. its up to themselves to figure out how to market a product im willing to pay money for.

    If RIAA,MPAA et al. dont like that option they are free to just close shop and go away. as much as this may shock you, their disappearance would in no way mean the end of music. for proof i present thousands of years of history prior to their existence and the concept of copyright.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 11:00pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    So more enforcement will make artists more money?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    icon
    DandonTRJ (profile), Nov 29th, 2010 @ 11:01pm

    I have seen the light.

    Inspired by the entertainment industry's keen logic, I am writing letters to my local television news programs objecting to their coverage of prostitution rings and drug cartels. Obviously the only reason they're running those stories is to encourage their viewership to pay for sex and get high.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Nov 29th, 2010 @ 11:03pm

    Re:

    As usual, no alternative is presented to them. Just another variation on "you need to find a new business model".

    I see. And was it the job of automakers to teach horse carriage makers how to adapt their business?

    A business can't compete in a market if there is rampant illegal activity skewing that market.


    Except they can and do. All the time. Which is why the overall industries impacted most by file sharing -- music and movies -- are both larger today than they were in the past.

    It is obvious to everyone on both sides of the issue that there isn't "another business model". That's why enforcement will be the avenue that is exercised.

    Um. Except we see examples all the time of business models working.

    If the pirates don't like that option, they're free to provide a valid alternative business model for the labels.


    I see. I'm afraid you have a lot to learn about how markets work.

    No surprise that hasn't happened yet.


    Only for those with their head in... the sand.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Nov 29th, 2010 @ 11:06pm

    Re: Re:

    There isn't anything new about "connecting with fans".


    Nor has anyone claimed there was.

    Promotion, merch, meet and greets, etc., and all variations thereof, have been around forever.


    Indeed. But not in a way that was quite as efficient, cost effective and with the ability to boost recognition and awareness for such little cost. If you can't see that, you really should not be working in the business you claim to work in.

    The fact that no new model has appeared says everything that needs to be said about why the current model works fine- when market forces aren't skewed by illegal activity.

    The fact that you think the above statement is true is a sign of stunning ignorance of what's happening in the market.

    The clampdown on piracy isn't going to go away. In fact, it's just beginning.


    I have no doubt that you and your friends will make this last ditch dying grasp at stopping what the market works. I would ask if you can point to a single example in history where luddism and preventing what technology allows has ever worked.

    I will wait.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    icon
    misterdoug (profile), Nov 29th, 2010 @ 11:24pm

    Catchy name!

    From now on I'm going to call it, "the legacy recording industry." Those guys have been playing with words for a long time, for example redefining rights as property, as if by pirating the word "property" they can inherit the cultural context that belongs to genuine property. They could use a dose of their own medicine.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    identicon
    Any Mouse, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 11:31pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Your reply makes it obvious that you have no idea what this blog talks about. Otherwise you wouldn't be branding big-name artists as 'largely unknown.'

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Nov 29th, 2010 @ 11:56pm

    Re: Re:

    And was it the job of automakers to teach horse carriage makers how to adapt their business?

    wow, really? You're going to trot out this old chestnut even though it was long ago shown to be a logical fallacy?

    Horse carriage makers were faced with a new LEGAL product in their marketplace that gave people a choice. That's free market forces at work.

    Music labels have their product ILLEGALLY taken without payment. That's not free market forces at work, that's crime. For which enforcement is finally catching up. Much to your dismay, I might add.

    The analogy is retarded and makes no sense whatsover.

    Which is why the overall industries impacted most by file sharing -- music and movies -- are both larger today than they were in the past.

    The movie industry might be larger, but the music industry has been hemorrhaging jobs and sales for 10 years (despite your futile efforts to lobby otherwise).

    At any rate, that still doesn't excuse illegal behavior. To moral people, at least.

    Except we see examples all the time of business models working.

    Models based in the age old concept of promotion.

    Still doesn't excuse taking something without paying for it.

    I'm afraid you have a lot to learn about how markets work.

    Judging by your reaction to the enforcing of commerce and copyright laws that is starting to flood the internet, I'm gonna say you need to talk to the mirror on that one.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:01am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Yes! You're catching on!

    While not every illegal download is a lost sale, not every illegal download would not have indeed been bought if it were not for the fact that it could be swiped for free.

    Denying that is either ignorant or dishonest. Your choice.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:05am

    Re: Re: Re:

    And I'll invite you to show me where a situation based on illegal activity and anarchical behavior has ever lasted.

    I'll also wait.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    identicon
    Anonymous, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:14am

    Re: Re: Re:

    I would ask if you can point to a single example in history where luddism and preventing what technology allows has ever worked.

    Not breaking the law isn't luddism, sorry.

    But since you asked...

    Automobiles are capable of much higher speeds than what is allowed by law. People accept that and generally follow the law.

    Because of enforcement. ;)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    icon
    mike allen (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:23am

    The two magazines were not the only ones to do this. but it is not a very known fact that at the FM station I work for is a full recording studio, A number of local artists use, talking to most of them they want nothing to do with record lables, PRS etc etc. the artists / bands know that for the artist the lables and collection agencies are the real ripoff merchants. I know at least ten bands who come in record a track the first thing they do is to take a copy then share it to limewire. correction did. the second is to place it on all CC sites. Several bands now shun the lables because of their history in ripping off the artist. So yes they can die for them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    icon
    Eldakka (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:47am

    Re:

    As usual, no alternative is presented to them. Just another variation on "you need to find a new business model".

    As the magazine is not a part of the recording industry, why should it know, or even care about, different strategies for the recording industry?

    It doesn't take a naval architect or engineer to be standing on the Titanic and say "the ships sinking, do something about it". However it does take an engineer/other experienced naval personnel to work out how to fix it and to implement the fix. It is not the passenger's job, responsibility or duty to know how to fix the leak. But it's pretty obvious to any layman that there IS a leak.

    So with the recording industry. While it's pretty obvious to everyone that it's broken and they need to do something to fix it, why should anyone except those IN the recording industry care enough to provide suggestions on how to fix it? Who outside the recording industry gives a damn? Especially when ideas are presented and get labeled immediately as 'unworkable' without even trying. When the ship is sinking don't form a committee to explore the possibilities of beginning an investigation into how to fix it, start working away. Try lots of things until something works or you sink.

    Don't keep pretending the problem doesn't exist or that you fix the problem by forcing water to change it's behavior by ordering it not to pour into the hole!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    identicon
    Glenn Davey, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:49am

    Wilful pirate who cannot be stopped, ever

    As long as there is high-speed internet, USB sticks, mp3s and the myriad other music formats... all it takes is for one person to buy the music, and the digital copies take on a life of their own. You cannot fight the borg! Muahaha. Having said that, artists can't make so much money, and especially the starving ones who make the best music.

    So instead we'll have mostly already-rich people making sub-par "popular" music and expanding their fortunes, while the tortured souls who would usually be serenading us with their art are off working at car-washes and gas stations. As a music lover that bothers me, but as a tech fiend I'm gunna pirate no matter HOW you try and stop me. I will buy WHAT I WANT TO BUY...

    Gone are the days when I'll spend money on an album full of garbage when I just liked the one song.

    Anonymous: sign better artists, and send them on the road more. More gigs will be your cash-flow. But you will not beat piracy in the ways you THINK you can... I guarantee you, in 5 or 10 years when piracy is still commonplace and music is still free you'll look back and remember me saying this.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    identicon
    Glenn Davey, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:55am

    One more thing

    I think more people making their own music will soon be able to "monetize" (to borrow an awful capitalist word) their creations online, and more obscure artists will rise up online charts and generate quite a bit of cash-flow.

    This will result in more varied music by more artists, with the music-buying public's money being spread across a larger group. There will be less REALLY, REALLY profitable artists as record companies struggle to turn their over-produced, over-hyped up-and-comers into cash cows like they used to.

    No-one should be making millions from popular music. The music should be spread around to the other really good artists who, at the moment, are drowned out by the crap that kids are told they should like.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:06am

    Re:

    McGurk effect?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:08am

    Re: Re: Re:

    wow, really? You're going to trot out this old chestnut even though it was long ago shown to be a logical fallacy?

    No logical fallacy, though I see you seem to have a brain block for basic logic.

    Music labels have their product ILLEGALLY taken without payment. That's not free market forces at work, that's crime. For which enforcement is finally catching up. Much to your dismay, I might add.


    First of all copying is not "taking," but we'll leave your bogus word choices aside. We're talking about a new distribution system. How it's used is not the issue. The problem isn't the legality of how people use it, but that there's a new, more efficient means of promotion and distribution. That's what this issue is really about. You and your friends made money by RESTRICTING the market artificially. You act as gatekeepers, because being a gatekeeper allowed you to artificially keep artists down, keep them earning less money, while funneling more of the money that was made to yourself.

    New technologies have introduced new distribution and promotion tools that make the gatekeeper business model obsolete. You still don't seem to recognize this. So you blindly lash out at "pirates."

    It's sad.

    The analogy is retarded and makes no sense whatsover.


    Only to the willfully ignorant.

    The movie industry might be larger, but the music industry has been hemorrhaging jobs and sales for 10 years (despite your futile efforts to lobby otherwise).

    False. We've posted four separate studies looking at the music industry (using the industry's own numbers) and have shown that it has actually grown significantly in the past decade.

    The *recording* industry may have lost sales and jobs, but that's different than the music industry.

    Oh yeah, also, much more music is actually being produced. So, more money is being made and more music is being produced. Kinda hard to buy into your claims of doom and gloom when you're flat out lying or ignorant. Which is it, buddy?

    At any rate, that still doesn't excuse illegal behavior. To moral people, at least.


    No one's "excusing" illegal behavior. Why do you keep sucking on that irrelevant nut? Honestly, the whole "piracy" thing is a total red herring you keep throwing out there. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with piracy. We're talking about the new tools that let artists better connect, better promote, better distribute and better monetize.

    Piracy is a red herring tossed out by those in denial.

    Judging by your reaction to the enforcing of commerce and copyright laws that is starting to flood the internet, I'm gonna say you need to talk to the mirror on that one.

    Heh. I'm sorry. Conversing with you is really a stunning exercise in talking to the deluded. I await the day when you finally come to your senses and realize we've been HELPING people like you for years to make more money, and your response has been to spit in our faces.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:11am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    And I'll invite you to show me where a situation based on illegal activity and anarchical behavior has ever lasted.

    Heh. It's really quite amusing to see you flail about like this.

    You're correct that when massive groups of people do things illegally, they tend to not last. But what you seem to miss is the reason they don't last is that eventually government's LEGALIZE such things.

    It used to be illegal to be homosexual. Now it's not.
    It used to be illegal to drink. Now it's not.

    You also might want to try reading the book "Property Outlaws" which highlights numerous cases of mass illegal activity leading to legalizing the activity.

    Your focus on illegal remains a red herring of the willfully clueless.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:21am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Automobiles are capable of much higher speeds than what is allowed by law. People accept that and generally follow the law.

    Um. I don't know if you noticed, but it's pretty typical for most drivers to speed. Perhaps you live somewhere odd, but I can't recall anywhere I've been in the US where people generally obey the speed limit.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:25am

    Re:

    You obviously is not a fan of Madonna, she makes millions from merch and live gigs why can't you?

    The only business that can't compete in a market is trying to sell something nobody is using, when was the last time you bought a discman?

    If labels don't like that model I'm sorry, that is why Jamendo is great and EMI is chapter 11.

    Have you noticed the trend? The more draconian things get the more open alternatives comes out of that place. Jamendo is French, Netsukuku and Osiris SP are both Italian, Winny is Japanese(Japan have some of the most hardline IP laws in the world really hardcore), sure you can see the trend and what that means. Innovate or die!

    In your case it may be death or the soup line.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    identicon
    athe, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:43am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Music labels have their product ILLEGALLY taken without payment. And for the many years when those other "groups" wanted to work with the recording industry in bringing a licensed product to consumers, what did the recording industry do? Sure, there were those who would never have had any intention of working with the recording industry, but for those that tried, they got driven out, because we can't have someone else taking a piece of the pie (oh, and that includes the artists).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:44am

    "Music labels have their product ILLEGALLY taken without payment. That's not free market forces at work, that's crime. For which enforcement is finally catching up. Much to your dismay, I might add."

    Well that is a falacy too, since music labels are facing many LEGAL alternative like Jamendo, Magnatune do you think I download music illegally?

    Furthermore trying to sell CD's on the MP3 era is just dumb, besides people can listen to music for free on the radio is that illegal too?

    Besides who would by anything from people who call them thieves?

    A YouTube celebrity can make 6 figures and they give it all for free, why can't you?

    ps: YouTube celebrity is code for abuscure person that have somehow managed to get thousands of people viewing them.

    The movie industry might be larger, but the music industry has been hemorrhaging jobs and sales for 10 years (despite your futile efforts to lobby otherwise).


    Yay! victory is ours!
    I hope every last one of you types end up looking for a new career, you are not fit for the new age, new blood is coming and they don't depend on the old tricks to make money.

    At any rate, that still doesn't excuse illegal behavior. To moral people, at least.


    Illegal is relative, you know.
    The law says it may be or not illegal is not defined yet, but common sense says different.

    What could be possible illegal in listening to music? People are not downloading every music under the sun to keep them, they don't have the storage capability to do so, not yet and if it gets bigger they wouldn't even know they have the song, they probably need to download it again, but to some EVERY possible use must be controlled, that is wrong and you will feel the pain for trying to do so.


    Models based in the age old concept of promotion.

    Still doesn't excuse taking something without paying for it.


    Gee, you say like listenning to radio? people take the music and don't pay is that imoral too?

    Judging by your reaction to the enforcing of commerce and copyright laws that is starting to flood the internet, I'm gonna say you need to talk to the mirror on that one.


    That is funny because you need to talk to the hand.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:55am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    That is such a wimp analogy.

    There is no enforcement possible on the interwebz people do prove that all the time, there is no interwebz cops, besides people don't need the internet to pirate anything they can just record it and distribute it to their friends at will, will the government make a law to watch e-mails, IM, private networks, thumbdrives, HDD's?

    I doubt, laws will be enacted like people tried to enact laws against squatting and in the end those laws get forgotten and new laws come into play favoring the otherside, it may take 2 decades but it will happen because people are not going to stop what they are doing. Take Michael Jackson and the USRR, when it got open and Michael did his first live show there he had thousands of fans already and that was a country where people got a bullet in the head for having that kind of music, it was a criminal offense and still they got the music, so you really think that any amount of legislation will stop people?

    Right! I have some land on the moon I want talk you into.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 2:17am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    And I'll invite you to show me where a situation based on illegal activity and anarchical behavior has ever lasted.

    I'll also wait.


    If you live in the U.S. you are living on the fruits of the forefathers that were anarchists who believed in living their own lifes without the crown, India also had their anarchists like Gandhi, Russia had theirs, China also, the beatniks are still around in one form or another, punks morphed into the EMO movement LoL

    Talking about beatniks read On The Road-Jack Kerouc and then read Tropic Of Cancer-Henry Miller, maybe 40 years apart saying the exact same things, expressing the same sentiments much of the 90's and 00's reminds me of those 2, the "f. you" attitude the "I don't care" etc.

    Oh and there is Nina Paley that is listed on Wikipedia as a anarcho artist WTF! LoL

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anarchist_artists

    You think you live in a society with law and order free of corruption, deceptions and chaos?

    If that is the case you are not paying attention to the world.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 2:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Can I haz both?

    I will ignore ridiculous statements and will be dishonest with dishonest people.

    Artists don't make more money selling CD's people don't buy CD's they probably don't even have a place to play those things anymore.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 2:23am

    Thank God the legacy music industry is dying and I hope Bono goes with them.

    With or without you, the world will change.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    icon
    grumpy (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 3:02am

    Re:

    So let me get this straight. To be allowed to comment on a business one has to first think of an alternative business model, otherwise the criticism is invalid. OK. Nice. I think I smell a patsy...

    This might've worked in the Soviet Union but a market is without mercy. Succeed with your business model or die. Can't think of anything new? Sorry, off to the compost heap with you. Not many buggy whip manufacturers left in the world these days...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 3:10am

    Speaking as an unabashed pirate, I am a recent convert to paying for netflix. Mike is constantly saying paid can compete with free and I never believed it until my netflix free trial. I could and still can get anything digital I want for free, but I will gladly pay the cost for netflix because the service and quality of content is such that it beats the illegal means I'm used to. I'm really glad I can support the content creators again at a price level that is comfortable with me and my lame income. the netflix business model is the future for music as well, and I hope they're the ones to take that step before all others

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 3:20am

    Re:

    so everyone else should do there job for them? makes sense

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
    icon
    Chronno S. Trigger (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 3:45am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    So, you claim that the recording industry suing the crap out of these people is a good way to get them to buy CDs? I don't know about you, but if I (or a friend or family member) got sued by someone, I would never ever do business with them again. Would you do business with a company that screwed you for life?

    Examples of alternative business models have been posted here plus examples of big and small names successfully using them. It takes imagination, something you obviously don't have. Just don't go into marketing and you'll be fine.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    icon
    The Mighty Buzzard (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:16am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Still doesn't excuse taking something without paying for it.

    It doesn't need excusing. Downloading music without paying for it may not be particularly ethical but it is absolutely legal. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's on firmer ground both legally and ethically than the accounting practices the labels use to do everything they possibly can to keep from ever having to pay artists a cut from music sales.

    You wanted a business model though, so here you go. Make money from live performances and quit worrying about the music itself. That's not only a viable business model for artists, it's one that's been proven over thousands of years by everyone from medieval minstrels to Metallica.

    Wait though, you obviously don't particularly care about the artists since piracy never really has impacted them. You care about the middle-men and their business model. To which I say, iTunes seems to be making a fair penny and it's their own damned fault they were too busy throwing hissy fits over piracy to come up with it first. That's just capitalism baby, compete or die.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    icon
    The Mighty Buzzard (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:20am

    Re: Re:

    The committee isn't even exploring anything to do with fixing it, they're still worrying about who's to blame.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:23am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Horse carriage makers were faced with a new LEGAL product in their marketplace that gave people a choice. That's free market forces at work.

    You'd better check your history on that one.

    In fact during the period when "horseless carriages" were just starting out the legacy industries of the time actually did contrive to make them artificially illegal (at least in the UK). Ever heard of the red flag acts?

    Thae fact is that the red flag acts were eventually seen to be too much of an encumbrance (and unenforceable) and so were repealed - just like the laws that you are currently trying to hide behind.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    The beatings will continue until moral improves.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:29am

    Re:

    As usual, no alternative is presented to them. Just another variation on "you need to find a new business model".

    Why should PC Mag, Techdirt, or anyone else for that matter, present an alternative business model to anyone?

    Your comment pretty much sums up the whole attitude the music industry has - someone else do all the work for me so I can make free money.

    Too bad, those days are over. Get used to it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:35am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Analogy fail.

    The copying of music is not anything like exceeding the speed limit. Please try harder, I know you can do it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    icon
    Mike C. (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:36am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You're funny. Every time I follow the speed limit, I get tailgated, honked at and generally harassed to go faster.

    /try again please

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:39am

    Re:

    "Record industry is no longer relevant for music creation, music promotion, nor music distribution. "

    And this is what has them crapping their pants. They have moved past denial and now are at the angry stage. Some never get past this.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    icon
    martyburns (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:40am

    Re:

    You miss the point in this whole piracy thing - people are pirating because they don't think the music is worth buying. When this is the case, the music is worthless. There is no money missed out on anywhere.

    The music industry needs to figure out what people are willing to pay for at a price they are happy with and then address that market.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 4:43am

    Re: Wilful pirate who cannot be stopped, ever

    I believe you are vision impaired, possibly you forgot to put on your spectacles.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 5:19am

    Re:

    "the netflix business model is the future for music as well"
    Apart from that i agree with you.
    I will without hesitation pay for a service like netflix, when it comes to music thought i am far from convinced that streaming is the be-all-end-all solution, with music i want the actual file so that i can play it on whatever device i own that can play music, including my car stereo.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  
    icon
    Steve R. (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 5:25am

    Finally

    I used to subscribe to PC Magazine, but dropped my subscription because the magazine did not represent the computer user. Seemed that most of the article supported corporate interests, such as the RIAA. PC World on the other hand seemed to be more user friendly. In any event I am pleased that PC Magazine has taken a more proactive position.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 5:37am

    Re:

    here, here! I love Netflix and the primary reason I'll probably be a lifelong customer is their rating and suggestion system; it does an awesome job finding movies and tv that I like. I still haven't seen anything like this in the music space.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    identicon
    Michael, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 5:47am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Actually, the artists make very little from the sales of the albums, and the RIAA middlemen work very hard to keep as much of that money from the artists as possible. Artists make more money touring... and who is it that pays for concert tickets? Oh, its those folks that downloaded their music from the internet. So who is it that is hurting the artists? The internet made the middlemen unnecessary... they are just clinging to their money as tightly as they can.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    identicon
    Michael, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 6:08am

    Re: Re:

    The clampdown has been going on for some time now with no success. There really is no way without shutting down the internet entirely (bye bye economy) and its actually not very hard to share music safely. The war against sharing on the internet goes directly against its purpose and will not be won. We'll see these lawsuits decline as the industries that promote them run out of money. Lawyers won't work for free.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    icon
    btr1701 (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 6:16am

    Re: Business Model

    > If the pirates don't like that option, they're
    > free to provide a valid alternative business model
    > for the labels.

    Since when does anyone other than the recording industry have an obligation to provide a business model to the recording industry?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 6:21am

    Yes sales are down and there's not enough money to steal, so the executives are alarmed.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    identicon
    John Duncan Yoyo, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 6:53am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Part of that problem is Music companies failed to provide content in the form demanded by public in a way that the public could pay for it at a price the public was willing to pay for it.

    iTunes gave them a model and a distribution system but they just became jealous of someone else making any money..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    Rose M. Welch (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 6:59am

    Re:

    That 'rampant, illegal material' is a part of the market. You don't get to declare that it no longer counts, economically, because you paid some Congressmen to make it illegal for you.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 7:03am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    But all this enforcement so far hasn't really helped so how do you figure that more enforcement will lead to more money?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    icon
    Rose M. Welch (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 7:06am

    Re: Re:

    I alternately love and hate their recommendation system. Because of it, my queue has swelled to gigantic proportions and has now hit the queue limit. I have yet to regret cutting the cable cord, however.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 7:09am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Is that why people stopped consuming marijuana? Because of the enforcement?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 7:50am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Face it the apple cart has been upset. Then middle men have been replaced by technology. There is "NO SOLUTION" for the record labels. They are obsolete. Stating that there is a solution for them is a lie. Its the same for book publishers, newspapers, magazines, TV studios, and any other content distributor.

    The two things that the record labels have going for them are their back catalogs and their ability to promote. The back catalogs are going to be returned to the artists over time, and promotion is being figured out slowly but surely by netizens.

    Let me say this clearly. The Record labels have no future.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 7:54am

    Re:

    > A business can't compete in a market if there is rampant illegal activity skewing that market.
    > If the pirates don't like that option, they're free to provide a valid alternative business model for the labels.

    What abject corporate whining.

    The role of business is to give people what they want. Work to come up with new ideas, and be rewarded with profits in return. And continually changing circumstance keeps the whole market rolling.

    If anyone is not up to that, if they are not up to running a business, they should get out of business. You don't go whining for some kind of socialism for corporations, wanting to be spoon-fed their business model and spoon-fed their profits.

    Everyone, right now, should be copying and sharing whatever they want as much as they want, and helping kill off these fat stagnant companies as soon as possible.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  
    identicon
    RD, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:00am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "And I'll invite you to show me where a situation based on illegal activity and anarchical behavior has ever lasted."

    The United States of America.

    Fuck you.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:10am

    Re: Re: Re:

    > At any rate, that still doesn't excuse illegal behavior. To moral people, at least.

    Well, not really. This particular law is in itself immoral; it is merely a commercial arrangement. It is wholly conditional and it is intended to serve the public. If circumstances change and the public no longer feels like tolerating its intrusion, they are essentially morally free to de facto dissolve it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:17am

    Re: Re:

    > The clampdown on piracy isn't going to go away. In fact, it's just beginning.

    Haaahahahhaa!

    More like: the takedown of copyright isn't going away, in fact, it's just beginning.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  70.  
    identicon
    JEDIDIAH, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:22am

    The RIAA reality distortion field.

    > Artists make money from selling their recorded music
    > when people don't rip it off instead.
    >
    > Saying otherwise reeks of willful ignorance.

    No. What reeks of willfull ignorance is this pollyanna attitude you have that eliminating piracy will increase sales.

    The demand for a zero price product cannot in any reasonable way be compared to demand for the same product at a non-zero price. This is why even Pirates and Crackers have always made the distinction between commercial and non-commercial piracy and view bootleggers in much the same way that the labels do.

    Musicians have to compete with everything else in the market that wants the consumer's buck. Those consumer dollars are finite. Magical pixie dust will not magically make consumers any richer or any more able to pay for your particular product.

    You have to compete with $5 DVD movies, Wii Games and other legal leisure activities that are completely free. (time is also finite)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  71.  
    identicon
    JEDIDIAH, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:28am

    Fighting the Future.

    The DMCA is basically Big Content's attempt to fight the future. They don't want to be responsive to the customer (because they are a cartel and don't have to be) and they want to make sure that no one else does either.

    So they create laws that make it illegal for companies to create the next iteration of iTunes for Video or any other format Big Content wants to declare "locked up" by applying DRM to it.

    The more I can do with something, the more valuable that thing is. It doesn't become devalued. It actually gains value.

    If you don't have to create your own homegrown solutions then everyone in the marketplace without a CS degree can take advantage of innovations that increase the utility of creative content. Stuff becomes more useful for everyone.

    If you don't want to be treated badly by the general public then you should apply the Golden Rule yourself. There is nothing to be gained by alienating everyone who might be a paying customer.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  72.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    You are, of course, ignoring the ripple effects of illegal downloads. Pirated music is easier to obtain and easier to share, thus providing artists greater exposure. That exposure can then be harnessed by the artists to sell things that the pirates want to buy, such as seats at a concert or limited edition merchandise. I think we've presented this "alternative business model" repeatedly on TechDirt, but you folks seem determined to ignore us.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  73.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:31am

    Re: Re: Re:

    Paraphrase: your alternate models aren't hole-in-one garantees, so obviously increased enforcement is the only solution.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  74.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:40am

    Re: Re: Re:

    "At any rate, that still doesn't excuse illegal behavior. To moral people, at least."

    "Illegal" doesn't always mean "immoral." See also: China, Nazi Germany, the USSR, etc.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  75.  
    identicon
    JEDIDIAH, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:41am

    Pandora

    I dunno. I've always thought that Pandora was really good at this. They seem to have a much better recommendation mechanism than anyone else out there. Plus you can use their service gratis. It's almost like having classic radio back with real DJs.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I believe the law in itself is more properly amoral rather than immoral, despite how the labels might be wielding it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    identicon
    Tri-PleX, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:50am

    There are SOME artists that figured it out years ago

    Look at KISS. The album sales were/are a miniscule part of their music empire. They learned thirty years ago that the record indistry minions had their hands in the vinyl/8-track/casette/CD cookie jar so deep they'd never see even crumbs, but the merch - the shirts, makeup, comics printed in their own blood, and the trademark on their images - and the tours that are so cookie-cutter rehearsed that you could go see a live concert tomorrow and see the exact show and the exact moves rehearsed to a millisecond from an KISS Alive DVD from 10 years ago is what keep fans STILL opening their wallets for these guys.
    It's not Gene's reality show that is selling KISS albums today - the musuc may be the hook that brings them in the door but it is the legend (the marketing) that makes them want to buy a piece of the legend.

    Music (like weed, maybe?) is innitially traded between friends for free, just to spread the word of something new and interesting. If it's good, then the new party will look into purchasing (or obtaining thorugh other means) other works by the artist.
    Like it or not, trading (borrowing, dubing, ripping, TORing...pick the tech of the day) is an integral part of the music industry. It's how I first learned of almost every artist whose works I now own. Not radio, MTV, or some crazy new website, but FRIENDS that are the best marketing.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    icon
    Dalane K. Braunschweig (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 8:59am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    have you ever heard of the Boston Tea Party or the United States of America

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 9:17am

    Re: Catchy name!

    That isn't even a dose of their own medicine; "legacy recording industry" is an accurate description, not a semantic distortion like "intellectual property". It's more like giving them a dose of the truth (which they also cannot handle).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  80.  
    icon
    BigKeithO (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 10:58am

    Re: Re:

    I had a friend complaining to me the other day that he couldn't find any movies worth downloading off of the torrent sites. Pretty bad when people don't even want to see your movie (or hear your music) when it costs them nothing.

    \off topic

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  81.  
    icon
    BigKeithO (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 11:08am

    Re: Re:

    Netflix is big about getting on as many devices as possible. What is stopping someone (a music label even) from creating a Netflix like service that streams a searchable catalog to any device? All of the Apple-heads can get an "app" on their iDevice, everyone else can use the web, car stereo's could stream via a wifi connection of some sort.

    Sounds like you just came up with a good idea for a business.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  82.  
    icon
    Chargone (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:06pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    ehh, book publishes have a hope, due to providing more services than simple distribution already and the nature of the product. if they do it right.

    as for tv studios, Someone needs to actually Make things, so, again, possibly not screwed. networks though...

    but yes, anyone who's business is based entirely around 'distribution' and uses copyright monopolies to restrict access in pursuit of that is in trouble.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    icon
    Chargone (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:11pm

    Re: Re:

    bonus layer of silly: Techdirt at least Has presented alternatives.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  84.  
    icon
    Chargone (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:14pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    though given how things are going it's debatable how long That will last :P
    (sorry, instinctive reaction to assumptions of the USA's awesomeness)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  85.  
    icon
    Chargone (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:16pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    ... I invite you to come to New Zealand... at least in this part of it, where driving at the speed limit is pretty much normal behaviour. :S

    of course, the drivers are terrible in other ways here instead, but whatever :D

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  86.  
    icon
    Chargone (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 12:17pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    clampdown = restriction of functionality. restriction of functionality is interpreted as damage and routed around.

    this is the Entire Point of the Internet, right from it's military origins.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  87.  
    icon
    Free Capitalist (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:24pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    bonus layer of silly: Techdirt at least Has presented alternatives.

    Giving "them" what they ask for nets the same result as criticism: some chump comes in here holding their hands on their ears singing "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" as loud as their little girl lungs can possibly support. This pretty much mirrors their leadership's ongoing response to the collapse of their business model, so on that weak premise I would argue Techdirt write-ups get the most executive responses in the comments of any site on the Net.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  88.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:36pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    "as for tv studios, Someone needs to actually Make things, so, again, possibly not screwed. networks though..."

    After that was posted it occured to me I should have gone down the "networks as containers" route and left the TV studios out of it. They do have embeded advertising and licensing deals with companies like netflix. So replace TV studios with networks.

    "book publishes have a hope, due to providing more services than simple distribution already and the nature of the product."

    For a short period book publishers have hope. But as the younger generation ages and brings totally digital up the age groups they will see less and less profits. We are at the beginning of the "data pad era". As the price of the pads drop so will the sales of physical books.

    "but yes, anyone who's business is based entirely around 'distribution' and uses copyright monopolies to restrict access in pursuit of that is in trouble."

    I totally agree with this.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  89.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 30th, 2010 @ 1:51pm

    Why I'm absolutely sure the industry will never win:

    I control the money and I'm telling you guys, you will see not a dime from me ever!

    I rather look at LoLCats the rest of my life.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  90.  
    icon
    Tom Landry (profile), Nov 30th, 2010 @ 2:28pm

    Re: Re:

    I hope the change from a BMW to a Hyundai isn't too hard on you.....

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  91.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Dec 1st, 2010 @ 3:47am

    Re:

    It is obvious to everyone on both sides of the issue that there isn't "another business model".


    Only to the terminally stupid.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  92.  
    icon
    ltlw0lf (profile), Dec 1st, 2010 @ 12:39pm

    Re: Re:

    If anyone is not up to that, if they are not up to running a business, they should get out of business. You don't go whining for some kind of socialism for corporations, wanting to be spoon-fed their business model and spoon-fed their profits.

    Hey, it worked for the banking and automotive industries.

    I totally agree with you, but in this day and age, with "companies too big to fail," it seems like government is there to make businesses profitable, even when they are stupid about it (case-in-point: AIG.)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  93.  
    icon
    ltlw0lf (profile), Dec 1st, 2010 @ 12:46pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    But what you seem to miss is the reason they don't last is that eventually government's LEGALIZE such things.

    Either that or the people rise up and push legalization of said activity on referendums, such as Prop. 19 in California. Sure, that one failed, but with a rather large population of voters for legalization of Marijuana, how long before a similar referendum passes? I suspect that a similar referendum may be on the horizon to legalize personal, non-commercial use of copyright works (like what exists in Canada) in the distant future if not the near future.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  94.  
    icon
    Brendan (profile), Dec 18th, 2010 @ 11:51pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I have this on a t shirt. Funny enough, it's a Pirates (Disney) merch item.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Save me a cookie
  • Note: A CRLF will be replaced by a break tag (<br>), all other allowable HTML will remain intact
  • Allowed HTML Tags: <b> <i> <a> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <hr> <tt>
Follow Techdirt
A word from our sponsors...
Essential Reading
Techdirt Reading List
Techdirt Insider Chat
A word from our sponsors...
Recent Stories
A word from our sponsors...

Close

Email This