When A Humor Site Understands The Implications... >>

<< 'The Movie Business Is Dying!! Blame TV!' --...

Wed, Oct 20th 2010 10:39am

Filed Under:
english heritage, photographs, stonehenge, uk

English Heritage Organization Claiming It Holds Effective Copyright On Any And All Photos Of Stonehenge

from the stoned-henge dept

Every so often we hear of groups or organizations taking a rather expansive view of copyright law, but English Heritage, a UK gov't-backed organization to (you guessed it) promote English heritage and manage various historical sites, may have pushed the extremes to new levels. Boing Boing has the story of how it has sent a letter to a bunch of photosharing and stock photo sites claiming that all images of Stonehenge "can not be used for any commercial interest" and that "all commercial interest to sell images must be directed to English Heritage." Of course, that's blatantly ridiculous.

One recipient of the letter, the site FotoLibra, is trying to figure out on what legal basis English Heritage is making this claim, noting that Stonehenge "has been their responsibility for 27 of the monument's 4,500 year old history." Of course, just about the only thing this will probably serve to do is make people a lot less interested in visiting Stonehenge, photographing Stonehenge and getting others to go to Stonehenge.

44 Comments | Leave a Comment

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 10:42am

That may be the point
"Of course, just about the only thing this will probably serve to do is make people a lot less interested in visiting Stonehenge, photographing Stonehenge and getting others to go to Stonehenge."

Considering that visitors are the greatest threat to the monument, I have to wonder if that's their real intent.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 10:51am

I hope that somewhere an ancient society of druids who know the real purpose of Stonehenge are laughing their collective asses off at these 'posers'. After all, the druids were excluding people from Stonehenge before it was cool.

Not that I believe this, but it made me giggle.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Gilbert, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 10:59am

Gilbert's a sellout that needs more $$$$
I say we all chip in and hire Gilbert Gottfried to tell them to go fark themselves...

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
vbevan (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:01am

Do google get a letter too?
Considering google get money from their maps/street view app indirectly via ads, will they be getting a letter too. Why go to stock images after all, the street view of Stonehenge is just amazing, not to mention the 100+ visitor photos also accessible through google maps view of the site.

You can even street view from inside of the structure. I'm guessing it's a bunch of 50+ yr olds who just took their fundraising cake sale a little too far.

http://goo.gl/e68b

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:05am

So copyright is not just an incentive to "people" to make more art?

I'm shocked!

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Hephaestus (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:08am

Re:
"an ancient society of druids who know the real purpose of Stonehenge are laughing their collective asses off at these 'posers'."

Druid #1 - Hey dude what do you want to do today?

Druid #2 - Lets go out to that big field and build a huge outhouse.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
md1500 (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:35am

What will this mean for Spinal Tap?

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Joe: Pictorial, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:42am

A funding problem solved
If NASA could claim similar rights over any arial image of the US, I think their funding problems would be solved.

Either that, or Terra Incognito and images of sea serpents on maps would make a stunning comback.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:44am

Re: That may be the point
Query, how do you know that it's a monument? And, what is it a monument to?

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Pickle Monger (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:45am

Huh?
I remember reading on a website of a band I like that they owned the copyright on all images taken at their concerts. It'd be kind of like me claiming to own copyright on their songs simply because I listened to them.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:45am

Re: A funding problem solved
Sigh, the problem with getting old is that I miss the sea serpents on maps.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: That may be the point
A monument is a type of structure either explicitly created to commemorate a person or important event or which has become important to a social group as a part of their remembrance of past events.

Ask a Druid.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Alimas (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:58am

Re: Re: That may be the point
What would YOU use a henge for?

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Karl (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 12:14pm

Look at it from their point of view...
The purpose of copyright law is to promote progress, right? Without absolute control over every conceivable image, how will religious groups be encouraged to build more mysterious stone monuments?

Think about it - the sphynx is 5000 years old, stonehenge is 4500 years old, and the moai statues of Easter Island are only 500 years old. While these once were obviously commonly built, there haven't been any mysterious stone monuments built in centuries! It's quite obvious that the lack of copyright is what's preventing more of these sort of things from being created - just like it's the lack of pirates that's causing global warming!

We must encourage groups like to EHO to make these claims - it's the only way to get people to contribute to our culture!

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 12:22pm

Re: Re: Re: That may be the point
The Romans wiped out the original Druids, all that remain are an echo of the past.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 1:16pm

Missed my chance!
I knew I should have claimed copyright to all pictures of the Taj Mahal!

I'd be rich! Bwahahaha!

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 1:42pm

English Heritage Organization Claiming It Holds Effective Copyright On Any And All Photos Of Stonehenge

It doesn't, but that still does not keep claims like this from being made every now and then regarding this and numerous other well-known landmarks.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Cynyr (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 2:07pm

Re: Re: That may be the point
"Straw henge, and wood henge, but a big bad wolf came and blew them down."

No one goes though that kind of work for any other reason that to make a monument.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Niall (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 2:14pm

Fantastic comments!
I really like a couple of the comments in the boingboing article:
redsquare said:
I thought everyone knew that cameras, or 'Photonic Rippers', are used only to pirate and profit off the stolen reflected light.

I guess stonehenge is one of those "No derivative works" things, though I didn't know you could claim ownership on the output of a program, I mean, rock.

and xzzy added:
Technically, they're profiting off the capture of photons reflected off Stonehenge. Those beams of light would have reflected off the structure whether a camera had been there or not, so there's no way one can reasonably argue that it generates a maintenance burden.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Niall (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 2:15pm

Re: Fantastic comments!
Oops, xzzy's comment is here.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Prashanth (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 2:24pm

It isn't the first time
I remember rereading a few years ago Roald Dahl's publication of the story about Gordon Butcher and the Mildenhall Treasure. Basically, a man named Gordon Butcher accidentally stumbled upon ancient Roman silverware when plowing another man's field for-hire. Due to English law at that time, despite the fact that the silverware was found on private property, it (all gold and silver items) had to go to the Crown's museum. This is certainly pathetic, but it isn't the first such occurrence of a British national entity claiming ownership over things that clearly aren't theirs.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Call me Al, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 3:30pm

Re: It isn't the first time
Prashanth I'm afraid that isn't quite accurate.

The law at the time in the UK meant that the finder and / or the landowner would receive payment of the value of the treasure. They didn't just pinch it.

Though it is quite possible that the finder could have received more money on the open market.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 4:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: That may be the point
What does that have to do with anything?

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 9:50pm

Been to Stonehenge, taken numerous pictures of it and of the buriel hill on the other side of the highway too.

I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to "English Heritage" for explaining that these photos not only hold personal sentimental value but also it seems high commercial value as well.

I mustr contact them and ask if they would like to purchase copies of them for their archives, at a reasonable price and since copyright (even under UK law.. ie: Act of Queen Anne) retains with the original photographer (oh thats myself) I will then place them up for sale and expect a nice little money earner over the next few years.

WOOT!

Might even make a T-Shirt..

"I went to Stonehenge.. took a photo and made this T-shirt..Wanna buy one?"

;)

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Jeremy D Brooks, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 10:00pm

Like a Dan Brown Novel
If you go back far enough, you'll find a lineage link between the Druids and the people that run Burning Man. I just know it. There's something deep and sinister afoot here.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 10:51pm

Are they going to sue Hanna-Barberra? Stonehenge is actually the support for a highway offramp in the original Flintstones intro, as I recall.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
RCasha (profile), Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:08pm

Your rights are belong to us
The Astronomical Society wishes to inform the public that any photograph featuring any star, planet or cosmic object are hereby the property of the Astronomical Society.

In addition, the unauthorised use of light from any star is strictly forbidden.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 11:33pm

Re: Huh?
It's kinda not.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Dodgy Geezer, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 12:56am

Re: Your rights are belong to us
...That includes the Sun....

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Alan B (profile), Oct 21st, 2010 @ 1:07am

The Druids did not build Stonehenge.
It was there for a thousand years before they showed up.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Perhaps, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 1:47am

olders photos
Can they lay claim to photos taken before their stewardship began, say 30 year old photos?

Ridiculous claims to make...

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 3:56am

UK Copyrights
I wish you would remember that we are subjects of the Queen in the UK. Copyright in the UK is nothing to do with furthering the Arts.
It is a consession by the Her Majesties Government that we are allowed to copy some things. It is just that English Heritage (a QUANGO - part of the Government) have decided that we no longer have the right to duplicate our own photographs of Stonehenge without their permission - particularly if any money is involved.
Actually with all the Government spending cuts they are probably desperate to find alternative revenues - expect more clamp downs.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
abc gum, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 5:26am

In related news:
A group wants to set up a collection agency for pictures,
sort of an ASCAP for photography.

Film at eleven.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
akallio, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 5:43am

Re: Your rights are belong to us
> In addition, the unauthorised use of light from any star is strictly forbidden.

Huh? The sun is a star. We can't grow crops anymore? OTOH, go ahead and shut it off, that'll shut up those global warming freaks.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
dry cleaned lawsuit, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 7:00am

sue everyone
I'm confused about how this can be copyrighted. I'm no expert in photography related copyright law, but I do know that copyright's usually expire a few decades after the death of the creator or similar.

I do like this however. By the same merit, I can send such a copyright notice to anyone who takes a photo of my house and uses it commercially.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 7:50am

all your photos belong to us
should i be worried that the myan culture society is going to come and claim my pictures of pyramids in mexico as their property?

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 8:03am

Don't See the Problem
Just because the site is 4500 years old doesn't mean that the photographs are not new art or something along those lines. The rocks are constantly changing even if the human eye can't see it and so Stonehenge as we see it is not that old at all. Therefore, it should be a protected right. Heisenberg uncertainty and all. There.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Phil Nash, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 8:49am

Freedom of Panorama
Someone should tell EH about Section 62 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 which specifically allows photography of buildings and artworks in public without breaching any copyright.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
timbucks, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 9:43am

My Brain
I've just closed my eyes and imagined Stonehenge in all its glory. I don't know how to remove such imagery or place a copyright notice in the bottom right corner of my mental imagery :-(

Should I just turn myself in now?

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
ChoccyHobNob (profile), Oct 21st, 2010 @ 9:43am

Reply from English Heritage
his document has been sent to you from:

Ms R L McKellar
English Heritage
Customer Services
Po Box 569
SWINDON
SN2 2YP

Document Precis:

Dear Mr Xxxxxx,

Reference: xxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your email regarding photography at Stonehenge.

English Heritage looks after Stonehenge on behalf of the nation. But we do not control the copyright of all images of Stonehenge. And we have never tried to do so. We have no problem with photographers sharing images of Stonehenge on Flickr and similar not-for-profit image websites. We encourage visitors to the monument to take their own photographs.

If a commercial photographer enters the land within our care with the intention of taking a photograph of the monument for financial gain, we ask that they pay a fee and abide by certain conditions. English Heritage is a non-profit making organisation and this fee helps preserve and protect Stonehenge for the benefit of future generations. The majority of commercial photographers respect this position and normally request permission in advance of visiting.

I am sorry for any confusion caused by a recent email sent to a picture library.

Yours sincerely

Rae Mckellar
Correspondence Team Manager

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Ann, Oct 21st, 2010 @ 12:53pm

If they don't inform the public of their rules, they can't blame is for not playing by them...
If you ask me, as they fail to mention these 'rules' regarding commercial use of images at the Stonehenge entrance (as well as on their website and at the conditions of entry for the Summer Solstice celebrations), English Heritage shouldn't be complaining.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Jeffrey A. Williams, Oct 22nd, 2010 @ 9:50am

English Heritage claims are not reasonable
Clearly English Heritage are far from reasonable and will not likely be taken very seriously. Perhaps another English government organization needs to take over for English Heritage, and soon.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Rob Pollock, Oct 25th, 2010 @ 6:47am

Has bureaucracy become completely un-henged?
This wooly minded nonsense about barring use of Stonehenge photos shows how limited has become the thinking and vision of the bureaucrats. Tourists and travellers might decide to boycott the historic site until the bureaucratic bullies are swept from their offices and replaced by sane and sensible people.

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Rob Pollock, Oct 25th, 2010 @ 6:55am

Re: Re: Re: That may be the point
Very useful for stone age swingers ...

[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

Add Your Comment

When A Humor Site Understands The Implications... >>

<< 'The Movie Business Is Dying!! Blame TV!' --...

Follow Techdirt

A word from our Sponsors...

Hot Topics

New To Techdirt?

Explore some core concepts:

read all »

Techdirt Reading List

Amazon.com Widgets

Techdirt Insider Chat

Rikuo: about the Xbox One reveal - there were quite a few people watching the reveal live on their Xbox 360's, with their Kinect 1.0's attached...and everytime the Microsoft exec demonstrated a feature by saying "Xbox, TV" or whatever

the viewer's Kinect 1.0 would pick up the voice command and respond accordingly...by pausing or stopping the stream and going to the TV mode. I find that hilarious

I also find the concept of Kinect 2.0 hilarious. So if you've got a bunch of people on the couch watching a movie...don't move a muscle. Stare blankly. Don't move your arms at all or say anything, or the Kinect 2.0 will think you're giving it a command.

If you move your arm back to point to the liquor cabinet to tell the wife to pour you a shot of whiskey, the Xbox One will think you're swiping

silverscarcat: *Spies something interesting in the Crystal Ball* Well, that's interesting. I'm not sure what to think. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of the guy, but considering what the gov't did, I support him in that endeavor, but this... Seems to go too far.

dennis deems: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/22/1210687/-Obama-s-leak-freakout Best political cartoon ever? Top 10, surely

Hey the green bars are back!

Jay: Hmmm... Gonna have to hack my PSP...

silverscarcat: I need a new battery for my PSP. :(

It keeps shutting off if it's unplugged for more than 2-3 minutes, even on a full charge.

Mike Masnick: green bars are back, and hopefully functioning better than before. :)

silverscarcat: Oh look, AJ's having a cow and the internet tough guy is trying to be a stereotypical high school bully. *Rolls eyes* Hey, Mike, I know it's not in your nature to ban someone, but, damn, something needs to be done about this sometimes I think.

Rikuo: unfortunately, nothing can be done. IP address block? Useless since either AJ is on a dynamic IP or he's on a static but using someone else's equipment. Username block? That would only add fuel to the "CENSORSHP" fire

silverscarcat: Well, I think I'm going to leave for the day. That troll that plays the internet tough guy really should get laid, I think. It might help him think straight.

Rikuo: holy fucking shit...I want to be this man

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/fios-customer-discovers-the-limits-of-unlimited-data-77-tb-in-month/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+All+content%29

Warning - Home Server pornz on that link

BentFranklin: in that article, where it describes his rack, what does 1u, 2u, 4u etc mean?

Jeff: @Bent - 1U, 2U, 4U are units of measurement for server racks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_unit

Dark Helmet: Hell, I"m just a silly tech services sales guy and I knew that...

Get the Insider Chat!

A word from our Sponsors...

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Name
Email	Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
URL
Subject
Comment	this is for spambots, do not use this
Options	Save me a cookie

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Name
Email	Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
URL
Subject
Comment	this is for spambots, do not use this
Options	Save me a cookie

Thursday
11:20pm:	Yet Another Anti-Patent Troll Bill Introduced In Congress (4)
8:19pm:	District Attorney And Major TV Network Sued Over Stupid Reality Show (6)
5:00pm:	DailyDirt: Tuition Debt Is For Chumps? (15)
4:01pm:	Adam Savage On Why Copyright And Trademark Holders Need To Get Over Their Obsession With 'Control' (17)
3:01pm:	Partisanship Over Spying On Journalists Is Stupid: Spying On Journalists Is Bad, Period (22)
2:00pm:	Magic Hat Brewery Sues West Sixth Brewing, Claiming 6 Looks Too Much Like 9 (37)
1:01pm:	Filmmaker Behind The Pirate Bay Documentary Says Bogus DMCA Takedowns Take Away His Free Speech (82)
12:04pm:	Vermont Declares War On Patent Trolls; Passes New Law And Sues Notorious Patent Troll (7)
11:05am:	Prenda Lawyer Says Georgia Court Should Ignore Judge Wright's Order Because... Look! Hackers! (39)
10:01am:	Chicago School System On FOIA Requests: Stonewalling, Obfuscation, & Paper-Shredding (22)

English Heritage Organization Claiming It Holds Effective Copyright On Any And All Photos Of Stonehenge

from the stoned-henge dept

Reader Comments (rss)

That may be the point

Gilbert's a sellout that needs more $$$$

Do google get a letter too?

Re:

A funding problem solved

Re: That may be the point

Huh?

Re: A funding problem solved

Re: Re: That may be the point

Re: Re: That may be the point

Look at it from their point of view...

Re: Re: Re: That may be the point

Missed my chance!

Re: Re: That may be the point

Fantastic comments!

Re: Fantastic comments!

It isn't the first time

Re: It isn't the first time

Re: Re: Re: Re: That may be the point

Like a Dan Brown Novel

Your rights are belong to us

Re: Huh?

Re: Your rights are belong to us

The Druids did not build Stonehenge.

olders photos

UK Copyrights

Re: Your rights are belong to us

sue everyone

all your photos belong to us

Don't See the Problem

Freedom of Panorama

My Brain

Reply from English Heritage

If they don't inform the public of their rules, they can't blame is for not playing by them...

English Heritage claims are not reasonable

Has bureaucracy become completely un-henged?

Re: Re: Re: That may be the point

Add Your Comment

Techdirt RSS

Techdirt's Daily Email Newsletter

I’m looking for research...

I have an idea...

I have an app...

Hot Topics

New To Techdirt?

Thursday

More

Company

Contact

Tools & Services

More