New York Times Insists It Can Stay Part Of The Conversation With 'First Click Free'
from the yeah,-good-luck dept
While I’ve still been linking to NY Times articles for Techdirt posts, if there are decent stories on the same subject elsewhere, I’ve been starting to use those other sources instead. That’s because I know we’re getting closer and closer to 2011 — when the NY Times has promised to lock up its content behind a paywall. The company still keeps pretending that it can have the best of both worlds, and is apparently insisting that the paywall won’t remove it from the wider conversation because it will allow a “first click free” sort of program, whereby you’ll be able to read an article once if you click through from another site, before being asked to pay. While that might make the NY Times comfortable, it doesn’t make me comfortable at all. If there are no other options, I may still link to NY Times content, but I’m certainly going to be a lot more cautious linking to it. Why would I even risk pissing off my readers by a lockout when I can point them to another site that actually wants that traffic?
Filed Under: conversation, links, openness, paywall
Companies: ny times
Comments on “New York Times Insists It Can Stay Part Of The Conversation With 'First Click Free'”
Good job!
I for one appreciate that. I see articles that sound interesting in the WSJ, but I quit trying to read them because of their paywall.
Re: Good job!
Same here.
We are nearing the day when actual reporters will get paid for their work directly by the public, and politicians and other PR crap will approach the public directly instead of through shitty newspapers like the NY times.
Re: Good job!
Amen. I even get frustrated because if I click a few links on NYTimes, it puts up a wall requiring me to register.
That really isn’t how it works…
If I find great articles, I register and join that community. If all you want is to find me to sell me ads, I’m just not interested in joining that community.
These days, I think we can’t call them what they actually are. Mutts..? Maybe?
Does anyone know for sure if The NY Times includes a bagel with their newspaper?
If not, it could be a business opportunity!
Yeah, I know you’re fixing to moderate me yet again. It’s a daily challenge for you, I know. I know you love it because it gives you a sense of self satisfaction.
Tell me: Do you like cream cheese or ham on your prepared bagel?
“Why would I even risk pissing off my readers by a lockout when I can point them to another site that actually wants that traffic?”
I think:
You’re kidding yourself if you think you have readers. The reality is that you have trolls. Trolls you can’t properly engage.
Re: Re:
“You’re kidding yourself if you think you have readers. The reality is that you have trolls.”
….from the guy who posted four comments in fifteen minutes….
I used to have the Sunday NYT delivered. The delivery guy included croissants.
I think the NYT may buck the trend by actually getting subscribers. The news may be obtainable elsewhere but they have a lot of unique features.
many more sites that want traffic have the NYT advertisers left the site like the london times advertisers are doing.
hey you
When you put up a wall, people talk about you, not to you. You become a weird hermit who everyone ignores
Hey saladins pie
You’re being a dick.
If you’re in marketing, creating buzz is the goal.
So are you saying I’m successful?
Re: Hey saladins pie
In boring us out of our mind with you crappy comments? Sure thing, well done!
Re: Hey saladins pie
You’re only being successful at being what you say saladins pie is being.
And now I’ll go back to being succesful at being a human being.
Well, I guess I’ll turn the question around on you, Mike.
Why link at all?
Are you trying to give credit to the source of your information? Are you trying to bolster the credibility of your own reports? Are you attempting to give readers access to more information, if they so desire?
I’m a reporter who enjoys and certainly appreciates when you link to my stories. And I certainly have questions about the wisdom of the paywall model. So don’t mistake what I’m about to say…
But I worry that this attitude is slightly paternalistic to your readership. I mean, maybe some of your readers WOULD pay, so why make that choice for them? And, if they don’t want to, I’m sure they’re all technologically savvy enough to use search engines and such to hunt for additional news reports, if they are curious enough to follow up.
You’ve often spoken about the need of content creators to give consumers a reason to pay. And pointed out innovative techniques by musicians and filmmakers who do such a thing. And we all admire those efforts. But the key question for the rest of us it seems is what efforts do we reward? What behavior do we incentivize? Does everything have to be a flat and free model or can content creators pursue pay models, foolish or smart? Why not let readers make their own choices?
I understand that clicking on a link that is locked behind a paywall can be aggravating, and you may not want to risk reader aggravation, but that’s simple enough to solve: Just add a little note after the link, like (P) that indicates a non-free link.
Re: Re:
He’s not really making decisions for his readers, Eriq. He’s finding a free source for his readers to start getting more in-depth or alternative POV information on a story he’s blogging.
If he continues linking to NYT, is he not making a simiar choice for us? By changing where he links, he’s not suddenly making a choice where a choice wasn’t before… he’s just making a DIFFERENT choice. We still have the ability to use whatever source we want to for further research.
Now, if he were to ‘stop making choices for us’, he wouldn’t link anywhere. He’d just say ‘go look it up for yourself’.
Now, if I’m a NYT fan, and I feel that the NYT would give me the best information about a topic, I’ll go there, log into my pay account, and start searching.
Me? I’ll go to Google News and see who is carrying the story and paruse a few to get the info from as many sources as I can. If those sources ask me to pay, I’ll move along to another free source.
Re: Re:
Are you trying to give credit to the source of your information?
TechDirt is a site that provides commentary and analysis on interesting news stories. As such, it makes sense to link to the stories referenced in the TechDirt posts. It’s not any more complicated than that.
I understand that clicking on a link that is locked behind a paywall can be aggravating, and you may not want to risk reader aggravation, but that’s simple enough to solve: Just add a little note after the link, like (P) that indicates a non-free link.
I’ve seen that method used. And I never click on the link. Yes, it may be a bit paternalistic to not link to sites that require registration, but I think it’s about mitigating risk. You can either link to a site that you know everyone will be able to access or you can link to a site that you know a relatively small percentage of people will be able to link to. Based on the model used by TechDirt, it makes sense to do the former. It’s not any more compicated than that.
Re: Re:
So, what do you want Eriq? That on any and all commentaries or opinion pieces Mike should provide an exhaustive list of links for every news provider who has covered a particular story.
He uses what’s available, with a preference for whoever actually wants to let people read their articles without demanding money, that way he can be sure that any of his readers who want to follow up, can do so.
Not paternalistic, not contrary to anything he has ever said.
As to what behaviour you might want to encourage, well you have advertisers who are paying your employers to deliver eyeballs and hopefully further interaction for their advertisements, encouraging those eyeballs would seem to be the idea.
Re: Re:
I really don’t think he IS making that choice for us. For him to link it, that means he is paying to read it. He might not be interested in paying for it when he can get it free from another source. I personally don’t care either way. he is simply keeping with what his beliefs are. by paying to goto the NYTs and linking other to them, means in some small way he is supporting what they are doing when he doesn’t.
Thats just how I see it.
Re: Re:
But I worry that this attitude is slightly paternalistic to your readership. I mean, maybe some of your readers WOULD pay, so why make that choice for them? And, if they don’t want to, I’m sure they’re all technologically savvy enough to use search engines and such to hunt for additional news reports, if they are curious enough to follow up.
So people are smart enough to search for the paywall-free version of a news story if he links to the paid one, but not smart enough to search for the paid version of a news story if he links the paywall-free one?
Unless you meant he should provide an exhaustive link of every news outlet who covers a particular story (which would be ridiculous).
What he should do is provide a link that maximizes the number of people who can see it. A non-paywall site can be seen by 100% of his readership, whereas a paywall site can be seen by less than 100% of his readership. The chouce is clear.
Re: Re:
Why link at all? Are you trying to give credit to the source of your information? Are you trying to bolster the credibility of your own reports? Are you attempting to give readers access to more information, if they so desire?
I link to provide a way for the community to follow through and see the material I used in writing the story and to dig deeper themselves. Sometimes I’ll include a “via” link — which is mainly just for credit, but those are small and rarely the main link in the story.
But I worry that this attitude is slightly paternalistic to your readership. I mean, maybe some of your readers WOULD pay, so why make that choice for them? And, if they don’t want to, I’m sure they’re all technologically savvy enough to use search engines and such to hunt for additional news reports, if they are curious enough to follow up.
Hmm. Well, I guess I would argue that *OF COURSE* I make choices. I choose what to post about. So, no matter what I’m “making choices” for the readership. Some stuff I post about and others I don’t.
You’ve often spoken about the need of content creators to give consumers a reason to pay. And pointed out innovative techniques by musicians and filmmakers who do such a thing. And we all admire those efforts. But the key question for the rest of us it seems is what efforts do we reward? What behavior do we incentivize? Does everything have to be a flat and free model or can content creators pursue pay models, foolish or smart? Why not let readers make their own choices?
Readers can make their own choices. Nothing I do prevents them from doing so. But there’s simply no reason for me to link to a paywalled site if it’s going to piss off the majority of readers *and* there’s a better option out there.
I understand that clicking on a link that is locked behind a paywall can be aggravating, and you may not want to risk reader aggravation, but that’s simple enough to solve: Just add a little note after the link, like (P) that indicates a non-free link.
That only solves the risk of reader aggravation. But what if my goal is to also help the readers learn more, rather than just avoid aggravating them?
Re: Re: Re:
I understand that clicking on a link that is locked behind a paywall can be aggravating, and you may not want to risk reader aggravation, but that’s simple enough to solve: Just add a little note after the link, like (P) that indicates a non-free link.
That only solves the risk of reader aggravation. But what if my goal is to also help the readers learn more, rather than just avoid aggravating them?
This also puts the onus on you for know if you are linking to a site with a paywall or not and to make sure you have your links all set up the right way. That’s not the correct way to generate traffic.
I also want to point out that when you link to a broken link or one your reading public can’t access at will, *you* lose credibility.
Re: Re:
What about your decision? You made a decision to sell your work to a company with a business model that you know (if you are here, you know) antagonizes possible readership.
Providing a link that is locked (for any reason) is not just aggravating. It is rude. It is bad enough linking to sites that have so much advertising that they lock up my browser or, worst, my whole machine. If my community leader decides that he can’t be bothered to find, if possible, freely available information, then I can’t be bothered to waste my time reading what he or she has to say.
My TechDirt time is my happy time. The fact that Mike puts some thought into the care and feeding of this rabid riot of thinkers and stinkers only makes it happier. (No, that is not a euphemism…but it could be.)
Sure, Darky Darkster.
Want me to re-post your 50 pages of rants about government collusion? I really liked you up until that very point.
Re: Re:
I’ve written 50 pages worth of rants about govt. collusion?
Wow…I’m actully pretty impressed with my own output….
Re: Re: Re:
You’ve written 3,572 comments here alone and I’m four chapters into a nearly 300 page (in word) novel of yours. I think 50 pages may be a little short.
Re: Re: Re: Re:
50 pages strictly of rants about govt. collusion though? I mean 50 pages about Chicago, I could see….
Re: Re: Re: Re:
The Helmet is strong, the Helmet is wise, the Helmet is….pervasive.
Re: Re:
So when are you gonna find and use the “reply to this” feature?
Re: Re:
Yes, please repost them so I can read them all in one place rather than having to search for them!!!!!
First Click Free, Sweet, no more paywall
So first click free, I imagine one of two things happen,
1)You can spoof the paywall into thinking its always your first visit by shutting off referrer URL’s / blocking cookies
2) hords of new “freenytimes4u.com” and “nytimes132.com”‘s will pop up that simply index nytimes so you can browse headlines and have your first click-thru from the index site for each article. This way its always your first click
Also curious, does the 1st click reset itself whenever you leave the site? after an hour? after a day? never? I highly doubt someone will pay for a subscription after reading one article. I’d want to know that there was more than one journalist that could actually write something..
Like I said, it all depends on his motive for linking in the first place. I don’t think that all links are created equal.
If it’s to source information you can’t get anywhere else, that’s one thing.
If it’s to credit, that’s one thing.
If it’s to just note a first-report about some topic, that’s one thing.
If it’s to bolster credibility, that’s one thing.
If it’s to point readers in a direction for more info, that’s one thing.
I don’t think my argument is tantamount to providing an exhaustive link to every news outlet who covers a story. Please don’t simplify what I’m saying that way.
Re: Re:
The simplification I was trying to make (and I think others agreed and said similar) is that we are all still free to research and read anywhere we want, even if Mike doesn’t provide that link in his post.
It just struck me as odd that when Mike suggests that he chose a different link to provide – one that doesn’t sit behind a pay-wall – it suddenly becomes him making choices for his readers. Again, as I said, he’s not doing anything new. He’s just changing one path for another… but a path is still being provided.
I’m pretty sure you have a troll that comments in the vein of a white high-status blowhard PR representative, but I’m not sure.
Anyone who calls Dark Helmet as “Darky Darster” isn’t living up to their full potential and needs schooling at “The Maz School of Waaazup”. Dark Helmet better referred to as Dr. Doom or Professor Dumbass, in the correct situation.
Also, It’s President Scroob, not President Scrooge. Get your names straigh
“Please don’t simplify what I’m saying that way.”
He is stating a linkage policy of non paywall links unless absolutely necessary, you want unnecessary links put in, to give a particular business model a chance.
If a business model needs good will efforts from people with no reason to be helpful for it to work then it’s already a failure.
And the only obvious way to go, if you want him to not choose who to link to and yet still provide links, is for an exhaustive list of links some to paywalled content and the rest to free content.
When he links to content, it drives traffic to that content, he is under no obligation to a paper or someone else’s business model to drive content to them, it has to suit him as with any choices people make, if paywall doesn’t suit him then why should he promote it?
Re: Re:
Plus, you seem to think there are a lot of links being different things depending on motive, a link is a link. It is not many kinds of one thing, they are all just one thing.
And on the internet, that one thing is, “valuable” to the person or organisation being linked to.
Links relate to traffic, lack of traffic relates to failure of an internet business model every bit as much as lack of traffic relates to failure of a high street store.
I guess the difference is…if he’s reading a NYT story (perhaps an exclusive that other outlets then re-report)…and taking information from that story, it becomes his choice about whether to then search for other news stories in which to link.
If the NYT story becomes the basis for his own report, he becomes paternalistic in the sense that he’s deciding that the story is good enough for him, but not worth the money for anybody else.
Why wouldn’t Mike just avoid reading the NYT himself? If it’s not worth the money…if he feels he can get access to the information elsewhere….right?
But by reading a NYT story, and deciding to use the reporting as the basis for his own post, but then choosing to link somewhere else, that becomes a conscious decision on his part. Yes, he’s making a choice.
I offer up this argument with all due respect to the TechDirt community.
Re: Re:
Of course he is making a choice, just as it is a choice whether to put up a paywall or not.
But the choice he is talking about making is dependent on the choice a business makes as to whether to put themselves behind the paywall or not.
He already said that if it was a unique story he would still consider linking to it, just that he would have to be careful as people, all people, not just those who regularly read techdirt dislike being given links that they would have to register to follow, nevermind register and pay to follow.
If he chooses not to link to NYT, it is not hampering their chances of trialling their “innovative”(cof) business plan, it is simply a choice he will make which is reliant on the choices NYT makes.
Re: Re:
Mike also said that there will be time when he will link to the NYT story if there isn’t a valid or viable choice. As in an exclusive or in depth story not available elsewhere which is the NYT’s stock in trade.
I can see what they’re trying to do in an age of declining advertising revenue with little or no prospect of it getting any better but in the end, to me, it’s a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Will the pay wall replace the revenue lost? I doubt it.
Will it prevent copyright infringement or its distant cousin the fear of copyright infringement which seems to be the motivation behind other paywalls? I doubt it.
Will grabbing at this straw save the sinking ship? No.
I do see your point, Eriq, and in some respects agree with it. But saying it’s paternalistic is going a little overboard.
What Mike’s trying to do is avoid the hassle of sending readers to a site, any site, that has a first click policy in place to try to get people to buck up for the paywall and annoying his readers. That’s his choice and he’s clearly said what he’ll do.
As a reader I get to make my own judgment of this policy and when it works and doesn’t.
It’s his choice and he’s explained it to us and why he’s going to do it. I can then judge accordingly.
If it gets in the way I’ll let Mike know. I doubt it will though.
If it’s paternalism that offends you try Facebook, Bing or many other sites that are far more advanced in their paternalism. Or any other site that makes choices similar to this and either denies them or eventually says “its for the user’s own good” or some other silly thing.
They way to get around the “first click” problem if you arrive at a paywall page is to copy the URL and paste it into another browser, and the entire story should load. For example, if you use Firefox and land on a paywall page, open Chrome and paste in the URL. You could delete your cookies instead to but you might not want to do this since it will effect other sites.
Re: Re:
Firefox can easily delete cookies for a specific site (it is somewhere in the preferences, next to where you disable cookies).
BE AFRAID CHILDREN!
I hear the sound of babies crying, whispering, panting for their ipads. I see noted Economist Austan Goolsbee on The Colbert Report Wednesday November the 13th. It’s an excellent chance to see just how fearful America’s top professor of economic theories has become. Austan will also explain why Mike Masnick installed a nuclear bunker in his basement, traded in his stock certificates for gold certificates and explain why you should do the same too.
there are a couple of sites that ask me to register after i click on a article; fuck that, not only am i not going to pay, i am not even going to bother registering…clearly, the older generation needs to retire so we can have our Internets to our self’s.
Not linking to NYT is a good idea. One thing that I find a bit annoying is when I’m reading a blog or forum post that includes a link to a newspaper’s website only to find that the article is no longer available because it is now in their paid archive section. When that occurs, the last thing I feel like doing is pulling out my credit card….I just look for it elsewhere.
“So when are you gonna find and use the “reply to this” feature?”
It doesn’t work. So it’s a guess, but probably when Mike fixes it!
Hey saladins pie
“In boring us out of our mind with you crappy comments? Sure thing, well done!”
Wow you read them? I feel almost honored that whenever you read crappy comments you always think it’s me.
-sigh-
To Mike and the other regulars here:
Keep writing. I’ll keep reading.
mainstreet gangland
So the NYT is taking business model instruction from drug dealers now? I swear if they start taping candy to the front page next, I am calling the cops..
NYT seems to be testing
I’m a heavy user of the NYT, and generally have no problems with the cookies they use. But I’ve noticed recently that they’ve been trying to drop cookies with suspicious-sounding URLs (metrics.NYT…, test1.NYT…, etc.) onto my drive. Looks like they’re trying to see if this first-click monstrosity might actually work. No way will I allow these cookies anywhere near my machine.
But yes, of course – any decent browser (Chrome, Firefox) will let you remove cookies selectively. No need to dump the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, it’s a pain in the ass to have to do this, which is why I prefer Mike’s approach of trying to link to free sites when possible – and believe me, I say that reluctantly, because I really do like the depth of coverage in the NYT.
Fwiw, I’m a paid subscriber to the NYT.
I am sure the NYT will have a significant base of fans that pay for the service
But it will still lose a significant amount of readers due to this ridiculous paywall