Leaked Report Admits That Hadopi First Strike Accusations Won't Be Reviewed For Accuracy

from the accuse-away! dept

As the French "three strikes" Hadopi process begins, with tens of thousands of notices being sent out to accused file sharers (their "first strike"), things may be even more ridiculous than previously assumed. Guillaume Champeau fills us in on the details of a leaked report from the French privacy commissioner (Google translation from the original French). Basically, the privacy commissioner CNIL admits that, due to the number of notices being sent, Hadopi will simply not be able to review the accusations for accuracy, and will need to accept the claims from TMG, the company hired by the entertainment industry to accuse people. Here's Champeau's summary:
"Rights holders have been authorized in June to collect IP addresses on P2P networks, by recruiting the services of the French company TMG. It will monitor P2P networks, store the IP addresses it believes illegally shares copyrighted works, and their rights holder customers will forward the ones they want to the French HADOPI.

Early this week, an internal report by the CNIL was leaked. The CNIL is the Privacy Commissioner in France. It is the Commission which has allowed rights holders to use the TMG services and collect IP addresses.

The report says that "due to the high number of expected cases (25 000 a day at first, then 150 000 a day), it is impossible for the [right holders' agents] to check the [infringement] reports one by one. Nonetheless, the system does not have particular control procedures, for instance by sampling, which would allow an agent to detect anomalies in a collection session".

It says that "the actions of the Hadopi will be limited to accepting or denying the transmitted findings, without the ability to check them. The first steps of the "three strikes" process will therefore lay only upon the collection operated by the TMG system".

Despite these concerns, the CNIL did authorize the right holders to collect the IP addresses, and did not oppose the 3 strikes process by the Hadopi.
Read that bold part carefully. What this is saying is that despite the fact that you can be kicked off the internet based solely on accusations, not convictions, and despite all of the problems with false accusations and the fact that an IP address alone does not accurately identify an individual, and despite the fact that the massive number of notices being sent out mean that there will surely be false positives, the only people reviewing these notices to make sure they're accurate will be employed by the agent hired by the copyright holders themselves. Due process? It's dead.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    crade (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 1:03pm

    I wonder about this part:
    Nonetheless, the system does not have particular control procedures, for instance by sampling, which would allow an agent to detect anomalies in a collection session"

    I would love to know what sort of anomolies they screen for.

     

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  2.  
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    Dark Helmet (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 1:38pm

    Facepalm!

    Hell, they could at least feign some effort here. I mean, look, I realize that world governments are corrupt. I've accepted that. But don't just go around pissing on people's feet....

     

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  3.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 1:41pm

    Along these lines?

    "Sacre bleu! C'est le IP du le Presidente! C'est une anomolie!"

    *shreds*

     

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  4.  
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    crade (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 1:49pm

    Re: Along these lines?

    Mon dieu, c'est IP est le mien! Autre anomolie!

     

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  5.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 1:49pm

    If played right, this leak could help the French Pirate Party, much like the Piratebay trial made the original Pirate Party gain over 9000 members.

     

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  6.  
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    TDR, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 1:51pm

    Perhaps it's time to arrange a meeting between these organizations' mainframes and a 12-gauge shotgun. This is just insanity. Utter, complete insanity.

     

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  7.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 1:53pm

    What this is saying is that despite the fact that you can be kicked off the internet based solely on accusations, not convictions, and despite all of the problems with false accusations and the fact that an IP address alone does not accurately identify an individual, and despite the fact that the massive number of notices being sent out mean that there will surely be false positives, the only people reviewing these notices to make sure they're accurate will be employed by the agent hired by the copyright holders themselves. Due process? It's dead.
    -----------------

    Welcome to Napoleonic Law.
    This is standard procedure.

    Italian, Russian, and Eastern Europe law is even worse.

    Due process is an English/US law concept, not French.

     

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  8.  
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    Paul Renault (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 1:58pm

    You may wish to read INpact analysis, linked to in your Google Translate link:
    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcin pact.com%2Factu%2Fnews%2F59439-hadopi-surveillance-p2p-automatisme-cnil.htm

    I've D/L'ed thet French text, and need to digest it first.

     

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  9.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 2:20pm

    I'm not worried people will just copy things offline and make use of proxies to connect to other places.

    And maybe people will realize that is time to stop buying that crap those people are trying to peddle and start shopping for free alternatives.

     

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  10.  
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    crade (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 2:28pm

    Re:

    What do you mean? It has nothing to do with what people are doing, just whether or not they get notices sent to them. What does it matter if they copy stuff offline or not?

     

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  11.  
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    dwind (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 2:38pm

    At a 150,000 per day

    And a population of 65,000,000 and maybe 4 per internet connection it shouldn't take long for France to go dark.

     

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  12.  
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    Ron Rezendes (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 2:49pm

    Queue the French Revolution...

    part deux in 3...2...1...

     

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  13.  
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    Qyiet (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 2:55pm

    Re: At a 150,000 per day

    By my maths with 42 million internet users it will take about two years, three months at 50,000 per day to send a takedown to every internet user in france. However I'll bet that there are far less connections than there are users. So mabey 6 months to get one to every internet connection, and 2 years to get everyone banned.

    I expect that this rate of notice publication is going to backfire very badly for the french government.

    http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=it_net_user&idim=country:FRA&a mp;dl=en&hl=en&q=number+of+internet+users+in+france

     

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  14.  
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    Jay (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 2:56pm

    Anyone else find this strangely ironic given it was the French who promoted and embraced the doctrine of separation of powers to essentially ensure no man could be judge, jury and executioner...

     

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  15.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 3:08pm

    So Hadopi is asking the ISP's for information about its customers to that they can be kicked off the internet and no longer be paying customers.
    I am pretty sure the ISPs are not going to support this.
    What will happen if an ISP looses 10,000 customers? Do you think they will notice? Do you think they are going to hand over the next group of information as easily?
    Since the list is not being checked, can we add the Hadopi and TMG members names and IPs and see what happens?

     

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  16.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 3:16pm

    Re:

    Exactly what I was thinking. Get the addresses of every government official and let the now internetless accused with tons of free time wardrive their homes. Breaking wifi security is simple now and after a portion of the government realize that they are being accused and have their internet removed without due process they might reconsider this law.

     

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  17.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 3:31pm

    Selective enforcement?

    "It will monitor P2P networks, store the IP addresses it believes illegally shares copyrighted works, and their rights holder customers will forward the ones they want to the French HADOPI."

    Only forward the one's they want? Nice - They'll filter out IP addresses of politicians, movie producers, etc. no doubt.

     

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  18.  
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    hmm, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 3:36pm

    Does anyone else find this hilarious funny/extremely seriously dangerous that this is happening in FRANCE???

    I think the government there seems to have forgotten a little thing called 'The French Revolution'....oh wait, sorry this is Hollywood, they're probably hoping for Revolution II, so they can make a franchise out of it!

     

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  19.  
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    hmm, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 3:40pm

    150,000 a day???

    population of France: 62,277,423.
    'naughty strikes' - 150,000 per day.
    therefore 62277423/150000 = 415days til everyones been served.

    415x3 = 1245 days until everyone in france is kicked off the net! (may take a bit longer since they aren't checking anything and will send strike letters to some people even AFTER they've been kicked off!).....

    I therefore predict if this all goes ahead, that madame guillotine will start her comeback tour sometime around June 2013.........

     

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  20.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 3:55pm

    I'd be really curious what the French Press is saying about all this. Bloggers? Can we get a perspective from the people this impacts, (In English though, just to annoy anyone)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    identicon
    Anon, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 3:59pm

    Re: Re:

    It's sad, but I think that is probably the easiest way to prove a point.

    You can just drive around searching for unsecured wifi or breaking wifi security of anyone you don't like and then downloading anything and everything that might show up on TMG radar.

    Or was wifi outlawed in France and this won't work?

     

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  22.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 4:13pm

    Re:

    "This is just insanity. Utter, complete insanity."

    It is desperation not insanity. It is an attempt to hold back the tide. It is the second worst thing that the labels and studios could have done to protect themselves. The worst is actually jail time for infringement, which is coming in ACTA.

    You are dealing with people in a serious state of denial being "helped" by lawyers and lobbyists. The lawyer and lobbyists only goals are to make money for themselves. They will do anything asked of them no matter how self deluded the people or requests are.

    Don't worry about it. To use a music term the whole thing is coming to a crescendo. After which the system they are trying to support and create will collapse. Its the nature of bubbles and technological disruption.

     

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  23.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 4:39pm

    Re: Re: At a 150,000 per day

    "So mabey 6 months to get one to every internet connection, and 2 years to get everyone banned."

    If I am remembering the number for France correctly 52% (22 million internet connections) of the country infringes on a regular basis (its way higher in spain). So not everyone will be disconnected or notified.

    What you should expect is a bell curve where ...

    The top 16.5% of the 22 million infringers to get notified often and very rapidly. This is the really techno savy crowd. They will quickly switch to VPN or other methods of infringement.

    Below that you have the 66% of average infringers these are the people who will get kicked off the internet. This is where the problems will occur for the labels and studios. Kids, old people, the not to smart, the newbies, the crazies. These are the people who will complain to the ISPs, sue, and contact their political reps. HADOPI will then be removed from the books and an internet fee much like the CD levy will be imposed. Which will also be removed under the same EU laws that got Spains CD levy removed.

    All in all the outcome is pretty predictable.

     

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  24.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 4:45pm

    Re: 150,000 a day???

    Thanks for the simple math. Not everyone infringes its about half the online population (44 million) and its a distributed curve.

     

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  25.  
    identicon
    theo, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 4:53pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    Last time i talked to a French person, they did have a law that if you do not 'adequately' protect your wifi, you can be fined. I have no idea whether or not you can then still be held responsible for whatever is done with your network, but judging from this article, actual guilt has no relation with all this any more anyway.

     

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  26.  
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    Hephaestus (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 5:40pm

    Re:

    Yeah aint it ironic

     

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  27.  
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    PrometheeFeu (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 6:24pm

    Well, it is possible to appeal. Actually, the law is so riddled with holes it is likely noone will get booted off the internet.

     

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  28.  
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    Pontifex (profile), Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 6:51pm

    Re: Re: 150,000 a day???

    The beauty of this system is that it doesn't matter if you actually infringe. If you get reported, you have a strike. Sure, the half that doesn't infringe on copyright will probably have a lower rate of reports, but innocence is no defense against Hadopi.

     

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  29.  
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    abc gum, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 7:32pm

    Re: Re: Along these lines?

    Oui oui on DH feet

     

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  30.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 7:38pm

    Re: Re: Re: At a 150,000 per day

    "If I am remembering the number for France correctly 52% (22 million internet connections) of the country infringes on a regular basis (its way higher in spain). So not everyone will be disconnected or notified. "

    You assume that only actual infringers will be accused, this is incorrect. Those falsely accused will hopefully be very vocal about it.

     

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  31.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 7:43pm

    What about those who signed a contract with an ISP which includes an ETF? I doubt that many will pay their monthly bill when there is no service, and few will pay the ETF. Shit's gonna hit the fan.

     

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  32.  
    identicon
    Reed, Sep 22nd, 2010 @ 8:16pm

    Coming soon to a country near you!

    It really amazes me how the French who are generally concerned about privacy would allow this to happen.

    Needles to say TMG services could easily use this information they can acquire for uses outside of stopping "infringement". I say this only because when absolute power is granted it will inevitably become absolutely corrupted.

    Scary time to be in France considering that they have effectively privatized a portion of their legal system. I think the term for that is Fascism.

     

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  33.  
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    Chris Maresca (profile), Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 12:38am

    Re:

    Actually, if they keep going like this, everyone in France will be off the internet in about 250 days...

    And that will do wonders for the cultural industries of France, I'm sure.

     

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  34.  
    identicon
    Major, Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 1:39am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    Actually, Its : you are as guilty as the one who used your connection because you didnt secure "it"; and the only way to prove it was secure is to install a spyware-like program to log everything you do...which do not exist yet (only the spec were leaked). And yes there can be a fine... or worse.

    God im gonna love trying to find the IPs of the people who voted this law and inject them in surveyed files :)

     

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  35.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 2:52am

    Re:

    So Hadopi is asking the ISP's for information about its customers to that they can be kicked off the internet and no longer be paying customers.

    IIRC they still have to pay for the minimum term of contract (24 months?).

     

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  36.  
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    Marcel de Jong (profile), Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 4:00am

    Re: Re:

    don't you think?
    It's like rai-ee-ain on your wedding day...

     

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  37.  
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    Bad Analogy Guy, Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 5:27am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

    That's like charging someone with armed robbery because they left their car unlocked, the real bad guy stole it, used it in the real crime and the police are too lazy to find him - so it's all your fault. Oh, and they want their money back too.

     

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  38.  
    identicon
    abc gum, Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 5:35am

    Re: Re:

    In a competitive market, this would drive things towards no contract, month to month arrangement. Sort of like what it used to be. btw, there are ISPs offering no contract mo-mo, ymmv.

     

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  39.  
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    abc gum, Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 5:36am

    Re: Selective enforcement?

    I would like to see this "Do Not Sue List".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
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    Cdaragorn (profile), Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 7:06am

    Re: Re:

    This is truer than you might think. Based on an estimated population of 62,277,432 in 2008, and 150,000 people per day, everyone would be off in about 415 days.

    Give it an extra month or two for the 3 strikes to hit, and all of France will be disconnected from the rest of the world in about a year and a half.

    Considering how many people are behind NAT's (get your internet through an apartment complex, share with neighbors, etc.), it might happen a lot sooner even than that.

    I wonder how long it will be before people start rioting?

     

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  41.  
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    Killer_Tofu (profile), Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 7:11am

    Re:

    I've D/L'ed thet French text, and need to digest it first.

    You can expect your first letter in the mail shortly.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
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    Cdaragorn (profile), Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 7:24am

    Re: Re: 150,000 a day???

    You assume, again, that whether or not you actually infringed makes a difference. Go read the law again. They don't care if you're actually guilty.

    In fact, the way it reads, all they do is monitor the P2P networks and grab IP's off of them. Knowing how Hollywood thinks, I'll bet they just grab every IP they see using any P2P for anything and send it off to HADOPI.

    Much of the complaint against this law is that it takes "guilty until proven innocent" and tosses it out the window, giving complete power to whoever wants to kick anyone off the internet.

    Thus, his math, while certainly simple, is unfortunately accurate. I personally don't think it will take nearly as long as he says to get everyone off.

    Oh, and the 150,000/day figure? Ya, that comes directly quoted from the article. Go read it again.

     

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  43.  
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    crade (profile), Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 8:41am

    Re: Re: Re: 150,000 a day???

    Is there actually anything that specifies it must come from monitoring P2P? I thought the only requirement was an acusation of copyright infringment. They could run out of P2P IPs and start sending them out for "undisclosed reasons" (random IPs) couldn't they?

     

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  44.  
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    dave, Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 9:14am

    Re: Re:

    you're assuming that anyone working for the ip, the rights holders and the gub'mint won't be on some kind of master "white list" that will prevent them from ever getting a strike against them.

    dave

     

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  45.  
    identicon
    dave, Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 9:15am

    Re: Re: Re:

    oops... "ip" should be "isp".
    dave

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
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    Niall (profile), Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 3:18pm

    Re: Re: Re:

    It's France, so in about 3 minutes?

     

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  47.  
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    Cdaragorn (profile), Sep 24th, 2010 @ 4:42am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: 150,000 a day???

    Actually, you're right. The law specifically talks about monitoring P2P networks for infringers, but there's absolutely nothing in place to check that that's where the IP's came from.

    This law gets worse and worse every time I look at it....

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    identicon
    Androgynous Cowherd, Sep 27th, 2010 @ 12:09am

    Time to start submitting random French government website, office, and laser printer IP addresses to torrent trackers as supposedly willing to share infringing files, then.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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