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ASCAP Continues Propaganda Campaign With Laughably Bad Video [Updated]
from the but-you're-giving-it-away-for-free dept
While ASCAP is apparently too busy to debate Larry Lessig, they aren't too busy to produce silly and ridiculous propaganda. ASCAP member Damian Sol notes that he recently received an email from ASCAP asking him to "spread the word" about ASCAP's new propaganda video that compares getting songwriters paid for music to getting chickens and cows paid for their eggs and milk. Seriously. I'd embed it here, but the technologically savvy folks at ASCAP are apparently too clueless to figure out how to include an embed on a video they claim they want people to "share." Update: Aha. While they don't make it clear on the page, the video has also been uploaded to YouTube, where it is embeddable:
Anyway, since ASCAP believes that every public performance needs to be paid for, and the idea of "free promotion" is a myth, I do have to ask: is ASCAP paying Peter Himmelman, the guy who made the video, each time it's played?
Update 2: Also, as many in the comments have noted, they've also produced a second video, which is just ridiculously misleading. You can watch it here:
Two major problems with the video. The first is that ASCAP continues to falsely portray "open source" believers as being somehow against compensation. It includes a guy in a t-shirt that says "open source dude," which morphs into "fair payment man" in the video.
The bigger problem is that it sets up a total strawman to knocks down, in saying that people don't think music is "as valuable" as a variety of tangible goods because you can hold/eat/watch those goods "and because people made them." The conclusion of the video? Music is valuable because "people made it." Uh, ok. Except that the debate isn't over the value of music. It's about the price of music, and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend that value and price are the same thing. And while some people might actually find a TV set or a pair of shoes more valuable than music, it's not because one is tangible and the other is not. It's because they simply value one more than the other. What people are actually arguing -- a point that ASCAP won't address because it can't -- is that setting up a bureaucracy that gets a government granted ability to demand money from venues promoting musicians music can actually do serious harm to musicians by making it that much more difficult to find venues that can promote their music.
Anyway, since ASCAP believes that every public performance needs to be paid for, and the idea of "free promotion" is a myth, I do have to ask: is ASCAP paying Peter Himmelman, the guy who made the video, each time it's played?
Update 2: Also, as many in the comments have noted, they've also produced a second video, which is just ridiculously misleading. You can watch it here:
The bigger problem is that it sets up a total strawman to knocks down, in saying that people don't think music is "as valuable" as a variety of tangible goods because you can hold/eat/watch those goods "and because people made them." The conclusion of the video? Music is valuable because "people made it." Uh, ok. Except that the debate isn't over the value of music. It's about the price of music, and it's intellectually dishonest to pretend that value and price are the same thing. And while some people might actually find a TV set or a pair of shoes more valuable than music, it's not because one is tangible and the other is not. It's because they simply value one more than the other. What people are actually arguing -- a point that ASCAP won't address because it can't -- is that setting up a bureaucracy that gets a government granted ability to demand money from venues promoting musicians music can actually do serious harm to musicians by making it that much more difficult to find venues that can promote their music.
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Well
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Not accurate
Cows and chicken complaining about not getting a fair price for their milk and eggs - how about receiving a stable, warm hay to sit on, salt that they can't find in nature easily, protection from other predators (such as wolves, hawks and so on).
It's basically a relatively fare trade, a relation between humans and animals.
Movie should at least be appended with something saying "Join ascap and if you're big enough to sue ASCAP, you may get your fair share of money, otherwise you'll be ignored or you would get bogus, very small payments"
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...
So am I the only one that can debunk this piece of drivel when ASCAP is shutting down businesses that don't pay them through their extortion schemes?
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As-cap
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Very funny
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CC?
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Bunch of bull
It sort of makes me want to go out and eat a steak.
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Re: Well
Sounds like a DMCA take-down waiting to happen.
This video is as creative as we're allowed to get under the Bill of Copyrights.
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Admittedly, not the best story line, but propoganda implies falsity.
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makes #12 = falsity (sic)
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Re:
False statement in video two: people don't pay the chicken for the eggs. Ok this is not false, it's simply absurd. The analogy (people don't pay the composer for the music it composes) is only true for members of ASCAP and people who haven't figured out how to get paid.
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Sure they will. Out of the profits from the video. You see, they produced the video by setting up a shell company. That shell company owes a lot of money to ASCAP. After that money is paid, and if there is any profit left over, I'm sure Peter will get what's coming to him.
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Re:
Propaganda isn't necessarily false, although these videos are very, very wrong. In any case they're certainly propaganda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
btw "not the best story line" has to be among the most overly generous reviews of any movie, ever.
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Re: Re: Well
Great....I just shit myself. Thanks for that....
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Updated post
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Nice analogy
Bull's frame of mind: "I am spreading the seed of prosperity for all"
Everyone else's frame of mind: "Here comes that damn bull to f*%* us in the a%$ again..."
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Is ASCAP Revealing Its True Ambitions?
If the music industry really did own artists as chattel-slaves, they could adopt the same system. When executions were conducted in public, say until the 1860's or the 1870's in most parts of the developed countries, they were a popular spectator sport. All kinds of people made money from public executions in much the same ways they would now make money from a football game: selling seats, either in temporary bleachers, or on buildings overlooking the place of execution; selling food and drink; selling "broadsheets," one-off tabloid newspapers about the person being executed; and selling souvenirs, such as pieces of the hangman's rope. I doubt human nature has changed very much.
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From here on in...
@Marius
"It's basically a relatively fare trade, a relation between humans and animals."
It's hardly fair... Would it be fair to give a pregnant woman a house - then attach her boobs to a milking machine and eat her children?
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Re:
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Re: From here on in...
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Umm...
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Re:
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Re: From here on in...
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Re:
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What the hell was that?
I think that if I were a song writer who generally agreed with ASCAP's stated positions, I would be angry with them for such an absurdly bad effort. Since I'm not, and I don't, I'm just going to point and laugh.
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is this an April Fool's joke?
Can it?
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i guess i wasn't logged in
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Re:
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how embarrassing
These guys are an embarrassment to musicians everywhere.
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playmobile
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Re: is this an April Fool's joke?
I hope you have not jumped to the conclusion that these two "videos" were commissioned by ASCAP because this doen not appear to be the case.
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Related only in the cow sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMoEAfDJ8Iw
I'm a cow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WFp4kozlOU
People do have a serious fascination with cows LoL
I like to moo moo!
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Re: playmobile
That video was a giant pile of crap. What artist would be swayed by that unartistic ####.
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Re: Re: is this an April Fool's joke?
According to Mike, an ASCAP member has received an email from ASCAP pushing these videos. "ASCAP member Damian Sol notes that he recently received an email from ASCAP asking him to 'spread the word' about ASCAP's new propaganda video that compares getting songwriters paid for music to getting chickens and cows paid for their eggs and milk."
If this is not true, then posting evidence to refute that the email Damian Sol has received as being fraudulent or invalid would be nice. Also, proof that the ASCAP website has been hacked and the videos uploaded by a 3rd Party would also work, since the videos are being served from www.ascap.com. Otherwise, it didn't happen and you sir are a moron/shill/etc.
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Re: Bunch of bull
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Re: Re: Re: is this an April Fool's joke?
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Re: Re: Well
ROFLMAO - Got to agree with Lord Helmet on this one!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: is this an April Fool's joke?
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if the analogy doesn't hold, you must ....
In the second video, let's follow these examples in the direction that ASCAP wants to go with music...
each time I put on my shoes and go for a walk the cobbler should get paid.
each time I use a bowl to hold my soup, the bowl maker should get paid.
each time I go for a sail in my fishing boat, the boat builders should get paid.
and why stop there,each time I wear the shoes, the designer of the shoes, bowl, boat should get paid.
your thoughts?
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Re: Re: Re: Well
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Does anyone have the number from ascap on
Current membership
Members leaving
Here are my thoughts on ASCAP and this silly set of videos.
1) They have hit the market saturation point and are beginning to see a slide in profits as people start using CC open source type music to avoid paying them.
2) They are hyping and propagandising before a lobbying effort to increase their reach and what they can charge for.
3) They are beginning to see artists walk away from ASCAP. If I remember their contract correctly, you have to give notice to them 1 years in advance to leave. So this might be a leading indicator.
4) The stress of the failure of the recording is causing "Media Mogul Stress Induced Disfunction Disorder" also know as "Crazy as a Shit House Rat Disorder", or they are just plain Asshats
In a year or so we will see what they are actually up to and the reason for this media campaign. I look forward to what they do next, it is really amusing.
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Another thought ....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: is this an April Fool's joke?
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I hope they didn't pay too much for that thing, its abysmal on every level.
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