Kodak Says Intellectual Ventures Behind Patent Lawsuit Filed By Shell Company

from the piercing-the-veil dept

Last year, Zusha Elinson broke the story that, despite Nathan Myhrvold hiding behind the claim that Intellectual Ventures hadn't sued anyone over patent infringement, IV's patents were miraculously showing up in lawsuits being filed by shell companies. Of course, IV and the shell companies have been completely silent over how this all works, so IV can pretend to be totally separate. However, multiple reports have come out claiming that IV "sells" these patents to patent attorneys, who set up shell companies with which to sue, and IV gets a cut of any money won. In other words, it's hiding behind these shell companies to pretend it's not suing, when the truth is quite different.

It seems that at least one company sued over such a patent is hitting back. Joe Mullin points us to the Legal Pad blog, which notes that Kodak, who has been sued for patent infringement by a shell company (PFI) being represented by Ray Niro (famous for, among other things, being the first person labeled a "patent troll," as well as suing a bunch of companies he didn't like with a bogus patent -- finally rejected for good, recently -- that he claimed covered any website that used a JPEG image), doesn't believe that it's really the shell company that's behind this lawsuit. It's demanding that Intellectual Ventures take part:
"Kodak should be accorded the right to sit down across the table from IV as well as PFI, so that it can inquire as to IV's intentions," Jones Day lawyers write. "It should come as no surprise that Kodak's attitude towards settlement may be affected by learning whether or not this case is the first of a series of patent litigation salvos to be launched against it by IV, whether directly or through a proxy like PFI."
IV's response, as per usual, is to play dumb:
"At this point, we haven't made a decision yet. We don't know what Kodak wants or why they want us there. We don't have a say in the litigation nor do we have control over Picture Frame Innovation or the patent."
Note that this doesn't actually answer the question of whether or not IV has a financial interest in the lawsuit. Of course it doesn't have actual control over the shell company or the lawsuit. No one thinks IV is so stupid to leave a trail that direct. But that doesn't mean it didn't sell this patent with the plan of profiting from such a lawsuit. The whole thing is so *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* it just shows off IV's total arrogance. It thinks that it's smarter than everyone else and can play the system to its (very profitable) advantage -- even if it's stifling innovation left and right.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  •  
    identicon
    Quick Brown Fox, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 4:29pm

    Patent Trolling

    How is patent trolling any different in concept from cyber squatting? Both practices seek unjust enrichment by manipulating the legal system.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    General Patent, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 4:57pm

    IP

    Companies like intellectual ventures, play a paramount roll in innovation. They force other companies to work around the patent, thus inventing new things that would never have come about if they were permitted to use the ideas of the company that claimed ownership first.

    Think of all the great things that have come out of software patents. Google, Windows, PhotoShop, Linux etc, etc.. If Linux were not infringing on 150+ patents belonging to Microsoft, there would be no reason for them to spend so much time innovating around them!

    Take the infamous Fat32 patent, This patent pretty much covers all plug & play out of the box file formats. This results in locking Linux out of the game without infringing. But guess what? ... Thats great for consumers!! Think of all the choices they will never need to make!

    Come on people!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    •  
      identicon
      abc gum, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 5:13pm

      Re: IP

      Bravo.
      Sarcasm at its best.
      How could you type that and keep a straight face.

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    •  
      icon
      Ronald J Riley (profile), Mar 17th, 2010 @ 6:40pm

      Re: IP

      I have every reason to believe General Patent is a reputable company. Posting using their name is sleazy, even by TechDIRT standards. It is one thing to be nasty and quite another to make false posts in someone's name.

      Ronald J. Riley,


      I am speaking only on my own behalf.
      Affiliations:
      President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
      Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
      Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
      President - Alliance for American Innovation
      Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
      Washington, DC
      Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 6:44pm

        Re: Re: IP

        Sleaze pot, meet dead guy kettle.

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        identicon
        abc gum, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 7:06pm

        Re: Re: IP

        "It is one thing to be nasty and quite another to make false posts in someone's name."

        Ummm ... Heh ... you can't be serious.

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        •  
          icon
          Ronald J Riley (profile), Mar 17th, 2010 @ 7:25pm

          Re: Re: Re: IP

          Yes, I am serious. Mike Masnick, how would you react if people started posting with our name or one of your company names? Do we have some common ground on this issue?

          Ronald J. Riley,


          I am speaking only on my own behalf.
          Affiliations:
          President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
          Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
          Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
          President - Alliance for American Innovation
          Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
          Washington, DC
          Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.

           

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          •  
            identicon
            Tech Dirt aka Mike Masnick, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 7:53pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: IP

            Common ground?

            I think "common ground" means that each side moves from where they were towards a common position somewhere between the two positions ... but your personal interpretation may vary.

             

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

            •  
              icon
              Ronald J Riley (profile), Mar 18th, 2010 @ 3:38am

              Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IP

              Common ground can mean that people agree on one issue while continuing to disagree on another.

              Ronald J. Riley,


              I am speaking only on my own behalf.
              Affiliations:
              President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
              Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
              Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
              President - Alliance for American Innovation
              Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
              Washington, DC
              Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.

               

              reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          •  
            identicon
            Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 8:24pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: IP

            I think we've found that moron in a hurry everyone always takes about.

             

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          •  
            identicon
            Richa, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 8:27pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: IP

            Maybe he/she was making a play on words, (General George S. Patton) not referring to a company named General Patent Corporation (GPC)?

            I'm just saying.. (Only on my own behalf, of course)

             

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        identicon
        Ronald J Riley, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 10:13pm

        Re: Re: IP

        I have every reason to believe Ronald J Riley is a silly person. Posting using a dead guy's name is sleazy, even by Ronald R Ugly standards. It is one thing to be nasty and quite another to make false posts in someone's name.

        Ronald J. Riley,

        I am speaking only on my own behalf.
        Affiliations:
        President - www.ScamU.org - RJR at ScamU.org
        Executive Director - www.IgnoranceEd.org - RJR at IgnEd.org
        Senior Fellow - www.PatentTrolls.org
        President - Alliance for American Stagnation
        Caretaker of Intellectual Property Hoarders on behalf of Zombielands and its Zombies.
        Fantasy World, RJR
        Direct (810) 555-0194 / (202) 555-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        identicon
        David, May 12th, 2010 @ 1:47pm

        Re: Re: IP

        Is there a reason you keep misspelling Techdirt’s name as ‘TechDIRT [sic]’? Are you aware of how it makes you look (like an idiotic fool who cannot be bothered to look at the title of the page just to see how the name is spelled)?

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    •  
      icon
      BearGriz72 (profile), Mar 17th, 2010 @ 10:44pm

      Re: IP

      Intellectual Vultures Strikes Again...

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    abc gum, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 5:21pm

    Hey, ya wanna buy a bull?

    I do not understand ... how is this not illegal? Wth is the justice dept doing, sitting on their thumbs?

    This obvious gaming of the system can no longer be overlooked. This is tantamount to organized crime. Instead of some greaseball with a broken nose busting your kneecap, it is a high priced lawyer in an Armani suit dragging your ass to East Texas.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 5:38pm

    Reply from BigBoys

    Kodak has been suing companies, so they should expect those they sued to reply. See: Can't Innovate? Litigate! Kodak Goes After Apple, RIM For Patent Infringement In Both Courts And ITC - http://techdirt.com/articles/20100114/1233017760.shtml

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    •  
      identicon
      abc gum, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 6:00pm

      Re: Reply from BigBoys

      Oh - ok, since you put it that way. It's ok then ... Not.

      It has to stop sometime, otherwise they will take us all down with them - and I will not be too happy with that, neither will many others.

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 7:08pm

        Re: Re: Reply from BigBoys

        In the world we live, suing has replaced kicking someone’s ass you simpleton, Expect Retribution. If you're going after mine, I’m going after yours. Lawyer’s paydays and billions are at stake...welcome to hell!

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        •  
          identicon
          abc gum, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 7:20pm

          Re: Re: Re: Reply from BigBoys

          Oh, yes. That's the way to react.

          Yeah

          Never mind that it is destroying everything you worked hard for ... the most important thing is to get revenge !

           

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

          •  
            identicon
            Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 10:05pm

            Re: Re: Re: Re: Reply from BigBoys

            That’s the way things are, that’s reality. If you can change it, GO FOR IT. It’s obvious you're delusional, no more.

             

            reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    icon
    Ronald J Riley (profile), Mar 17th, 2010 @ 6:26pm

    I am not a fan of IV because I think that their dealings with inventors leave much to be desired.

    But I must disagree with claims that their enforcing their patent rights is wrong, because they are perfectly justified in defending their patent property rights.

    There are good reasons to conduct enforcement actions from a unique entity for each case. They are the same reasons that people create corporations for any business, in that it compartmentalizes liability.

    Kodak is also perfectly justified in enforcing their patent rights.

    Every reader of TechDIRT derives income from some source. Some are wage slaves and others may be in their own business. In every case you expect some sort of compensation for what you do. Inventors also must have compensation in order to support their business of inventing.

    The only difference between the invention business and others is the amount of risk and a much larger payout when one succeeds. In the end, every business regardless of the time frames and risk factors must payoff or it will fail.

    Big companies also take risks, like intentionally infringing smaller entities patents hoping that those entities will not be able to afford to hold them accountable. Those who take this risk deserve what they are getting.

    Ronald J. Riley,


    I am speaking only on my own behalf.
    Affiliations:
    President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
    Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
    Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
    President - Alliance for American Innovation
    Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
    Washington, DC
    Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    •  
      identicon
      abc gum, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 7:01pm

      Re:

      Oh please.

      You dismiss the outrageous actions of IV (only) because they treat the "inventors" poorly ... and then you defend their actions because they are "enforcing their patent rights"

      You sir, are are full of it.

      Seriously ... do you think this sort of business environment is sustainable? If so, please include your rational for thinking so, because I really do not see it.

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        icon
        Ronald J Riley (profile), Mar 17th, 2010 @ 7:20pm

        It is sustainable

        The point of the patent system is to encourage others to invent their own solution in order to avoid having to pay another inventor. This works very well.

        If you remove patent protection and enforcement all inventions will be pilfered and America will not be able to sustain our standard of living.

        Ronald J. Riley,


        I am speaking only on my own behalf.
        Affiliations:
        President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
        Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
        Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
        President - Alliance for American Innovation
        Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
        Washington, DC
        Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        •  
          identicon
          abc gum, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 7:28pm

          Re: It is sustainable

          I asked for rational which supports your belief that this business environment is sustainable.

          Seriously, do you not see the inevitable end to which this will come?

          Short sightedness kicks your ass everytime ... believe me ... I would know.

           

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        •  
          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 8:25pm

          Re: It is sustainable

          "The point of the patent system is to encourage others to invent their own solution in order to avoid having to pay another inventor. This works very well."

          Actually, no, that isn't the point. Feel free to keep showing your blatant ignorance, though.

           

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

        •  
          identicon
          Anonymous Coward, Mar 17th, 2010 @ 9:34pm

          Re: It is sustainable

          If you remove patent protection and enforcement all inventions will be pilfered and America will not be able to sustain our standard of living.

          Wouldn't America just do the same as everybody else?

          "America?!? Never! America would never do anything like that, ever, not America! If patents were demolished tomorrow and it were a free-for-all, why America would just sit there not doing a thing. America certainly wouldn't join in the free-for-all. It's just not in America's nature. They would probably pout."

           

          reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    •  
      icon
      BearGriz72 (profile), Mar 17th, 2010 @ 11:30pm

      Re: (RJR)

      From http://www.piausa.org
      "Conserving the American Patent System is the only way to preserve our technological and economic future!
      (This is not alarmist, this is serious and it is true!)"

      *** Actually that is 'Patently' untrue, as Mike and others have have pointed out on multiple occasions many economic models thrive without using patents.

      From http://www.inventored.org
      *** Other than the fact that this site appears to have been designed sometime in the early 1990's (Although the other two were not much better). I did not notice any blatant misinformation I did notice this...
      "Page last revised 10-10-2008"

      From http://www.patentpolicy.org
      "Many experts contend that the United States Patent and Trademark Office is the cornerstone to the U.S. economy."

      *** Many experts contend the exact opposite as well, evidence please.
      "The USPTO's ability to prosecute and track new invention is one of the most significant dimensions of U.S. competitiveness around the world."

      *** Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha

      If you choose to be a Troll/Shill Please at least do so with some respect for our intelligence, and quit spamming us with your ridiculous signature.
      [/rant]

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        icon
        Ronald J Riley (profile), Mar 18th, 2010 @ 3:15am

        Re: Re: (RJR)

        "If you choose to be a Troll/Shill Please at least do so with some respect for our intelligence,"

        What intelligence?

        How about you sign what you write or are you too ashamed to sign your name and if by some remote chance you have any relevant affiliations you disclose them:)

        Ronald J. Riley,


        I am speaking only on my own behalf.
        Affiliations:
        President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
        Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
        Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
        President - Alliance for American Innovation
        Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
        Washington, DC
        Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        icon
        Ronald J Riley (profile), Mar 18th, 2010 @ 3:31am

        Re: Re: (RJR)

        We are in the process of converting InventorEd to Drupal at this time. InventorEd services people all over the world, many of whom are using older computers and may be on dialup or radio link communications (outback) which are costly. So InventorEd was intentionally designed for low bandwidth. And yes, it was designed starting in the 1990s and has been through two major updates. It was created in raw html initially and then maintained with Front Page because doing so was easy. And yes, I do realize that Front Page produces crappy code but with over 700 web pages on the site expediency trumped the code issue.

        PIAUSA serves as an example of how open source can be a very poor value. It is based on EZ Publish, an atrocious piece of bloated crap. We paid for commercial use and I have to say that it never delivered on the claims. When we are finished with InventorEd we will also be converting PIAUSA to Drupal.

        I have nothing against open source except for the fact that much of it is worth exactly what people pay and the entitlement mentality of those in the community who think that they should be able to pilfer others intellectual property to use as a loss leader to generate consulting fees.

        Ronald J. Riley,


        I am speaking only on my own behalf.
        Affiliations:
        President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
        Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
        Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
        President - Alliance for American Innovation
        Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
        Washington, DC
        Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    zoobab, Mar 18th, 2010 @ 3:39am

    ProxyTrolls

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

    •  
      icon
      Ronald J Riley (profile), Mar 23rd, 2010 @ 8:39am

      Digital Majority???

      The name reminds me of how a small minority called themselves the Moral majority when in fact they were the Immoral Minority.

      Also, the referenced link has pretty poor quality, both the writing and content.

      Ronald J. Riley,


      I am speaking only on my own behalf.
      Affiliations:
      President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
      Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
      Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
      President - Alliance for American Innovation
      Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
      Washington, DC
      Direct (810) 597-0194 / (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.

       

      reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

      •  
        identicon
        Anonymous Coward, Mar 23rd, 2010 @ 10:12pm

        Re: Digital Majority???

        "Also, the referenced link has pretty poor quality, both the writing and content."

        The irony here is awesome.

         

        reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Mar 18th, 2010 @ 7:37am

    The thing is that we need laws and standards to prevent patent abuse, one good standard being that patents should only apply from the moment a product is released to the first who actually releases a product.

    There was a whole discussion about that here

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100316/1732228591.shtml?threaded=true

    and I just responded to someones counterclaims, thought people might be interested. See post Mar 18th, 2010 @ 7:20am

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    icon
    Robert M. Case (profile), Mar 27th, 2010 @ 7:50am

    Patent Debate

    Ronald J. Riley is correct in my opinion in nearly every statement above. Just check Wikipedia's listing for "patent" and learn. Hiding behind anonymous posting is the bane of the internet ... if you feel strongly about something, don't be afraid to stand up for it, as Mr. Riley does. It's a shame that every generation has to re-invent the wheel ... the open source community's denouncing of patents is simply a way of hiding one's head in the sand and not checking the prior art (which is getting easier to do every year.) That's not to say there are not abuses in the worldwide patent system, but I give credit to Mr. Riley for speaking up in this forum.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    the flame of the spark, Sep 3rd, 2010 @ 3:30pm

    Comment

    It's a very good and informative article. I like it very much

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    speak gently, Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 5:29pm

    coment

    intelectual venture are der.the corporates have certain expectations.mainly business oriented expectations.so the patent must not be allowed.as this article says it is legel but it must not be allowed

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    speak gently, Sep 23rd, 2010 @ 5:30pm

    coment

    intelectual venture are der.the corporates have certain expectations.mainly business oriented expectations.so the patent must not be allowed.as this article says it is legel but it must not be allowed

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    some paradise place, Oct 5th, 2010 @ 12:14am

    Is there a reason you keep misspelling Techdirt’s name as ‘TechDIRT [sic]’? Are you aware of how it makes you look (like an idiotic fool who cannot be bothered to look at the title of the page just to see how the name is spelled)?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    toy watch, Oct 6th, 2010 @ 4:54am

    toy watch

    This was a useful post and I think it is rather easy to see from the other comments as well that this post is well written and useful.

     

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    email newsletter, Oct 7th, 2010 @ 1:34am

    Reply

    The manner in which the subject is explained is simply spectacular. I like some of the comments as well .

     

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    credit union Fall River

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    batting cage, Nov 10th, 2010 @ 10:10pm

    Reply:

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  •  
    icon
    willbates (profile), Nov 12th, 2010 @ 2:49am

    Ownership too

    It is really interesting when you start looking into shell companies, especially with regards to who they own and who owns them. It is often very difficult to track, clearly things to hide!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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    dog door, Jan 10th, 2011 @ 9:39pm

    dog door

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  •  
    identicon
    Night Vision, Jan 18th, 2011 @ 12:33pm

    Night Vision

    Hiding behind shell corporations is a good way to protect yourself in a lot of ways, but the way IV is playing dumb and avoiding the reasonable request from Kodak to have a discussion with them shows they have no interest in encouraging technology. Night Vision Rifle Scopes

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

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  •  
    identicon
    batting cages, Aug 14th, 2011 @ 7:53am

    Awesome

    This is great. Thanks very much.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    icon
    sprearson81 (profile), Jun 8th, 2012 @ 6:29pm

    Very good?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    icon
    phildickamore (profile), Dec 13th, 2012 @ 1:08pm

    Typical...

    Its typical that one party is "playing dumb." I think because they are trying to avoid the reality of it that they are the party in the wrong. I agree and it looks like IV was up to something scamming and dishonest.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    Eric Saunders, Mar 12th, 2013 @ 1:37pm

    Shell Company Patents

    Does anyone even know how many patents that the shell company owns?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]

  •  
    identicon
    Linex, Jan 2nd, 2014 @ 12:26pm

    Auto

    This was great! I really like the tips you gave. Keep up the great articles. I need to visit this website more often.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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