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Man Sues Neighbor For Not Turning Off WiFi And Cell Phone
from the science? dept
For years, we've heard of people freaking out about WiFi or mobile phones, claiming they have "electromagnetic sensitivity" to those things. The only problem is that in double-blind tests, there is no evidence that any sensitivity is due to electromagnetic waves. And yet, people keep insisting it must be true. In the latest extreme case, a guy in Santa Fe is suing his neighbor for not turning off his WiFi or mobile phone, saying that it caused him to become homeless:
Firstenberg "cannot stay in a hotel, because hotels and motels all employ wi-fi connections, which trigger a severe illness," says the request for a preliminary injunction. "If (Firstenberg) cannot obtain preliminary relief, he will be forced to continue to sleep in his car, enduring winter cold and discomfort, until this case can be heard."
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Proven to be BS...
It's not like the looney can tell if it is on or not.
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/07/mobile_alzheimer/
on a serious note; this represents the first study that proves cellphone RF _CAN_ have some effect on brain activity. The fact that it's a beneficial effect in this particular study is somewhat irrelevant. It means to some extent that the nutcases were right, and just because we didn't have evidence of any effect before did not mean that there was no effect...
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Better yet
Stalin had an even better answer. Shot in the back of head. Where is your Wi-Fi problem now?
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Why is he on Earth's surface?
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About electromagnetic sensitivity
While I was in there and MRI was operating I could actually feel the magnetic field switching. It was a very weird sensation, kinda like a nerve twitch/fast muscle contraction in my abdomen and arm. It was very disconcerting, but not at all painful.
I told the operator about it and she said "yeah, apparently some people can feel it, it's very rare though" and didn't seem concerned about it. I asked how that's possible and she had no idea.
Note that this is just a personal anecdote and doesn't necessarily have any bearing on whether a person can be sensitive to wifi. In particular, an MRI produces a *very* powerful magnetic field and directs it at the subject, whereas a wifi signal is low-power and indirect. I'm not saying the plaintiff in this case must be telling the truth, but I am saying that electromagnetic radiation can affect people in visceral ways because I've had that happen to me.
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I'm sensitive to eletromagnetic radiation too.
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Re: I'm sensitive to eletromagnetic radiation too.
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Re: I'm sensitive to eletromagnetic radiation too.
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Wth
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Too much time and money
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Re: anti-wifi hats?
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Re: Better yet
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Re: Wth
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Re:
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Re: I'm sensitive to eletromagnetic radiation too.
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Even IF wireless radiation caused damage...
Seriously.
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Re: About electromagnetic sensitivity
To put that in comparison, the Earth's magnetic field is 60 microtesla. That's 5 orders of magnitude difference.
Anyway, the field inside your MRI is nowhere near the strength of a cell phone or wireless router. You could swallow both the cell phone and wireless router and the magnetic flux through you would still be less than the MRI machine.
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wifi under 5watt commercial under 1watt consumer. microwave greater than 600+watts. and yes they do leak just get a meter on one sometime that would be a good reason for this guy but not wifi.. don't park anywhere near any working microwaves moron
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Re: Re:
(nevermind the possibility of comparatively rare sensitivities, the suffers of which don't make it into the tests. such things can occasionally happen, one would guess)
alternatively, maybe he's got a Cunning Plan.
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Sure he's not worried about all the radiation he puts on top of his sack, but he's going to raise hell and raise money by using his uber top secret future computer to sense when there are and aren't WiFi signals penetrating his walls!
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Safer nearer a mast
Unless you are right under the mast, the field from your phone is stronger locally to you than the field from the mast.
Similarly, if you are surrounded by nearby people carrying mobile phones (as you are anywhere these days) you will probably experience less field if you stand nearer the mast.
So the crazy guy in this story needs to move nearer a mast, for his health.
Legally, if his medical claims were proven true it would not just be the guy he's suing who'd need to desist. Better surely to protect the victim with foil than try and stop ALL external sources.
I remember when I was at college, a local resident used to complain about the noise of the student disco if they went 2 mins past their 1am licensed end time. One night we left the disco lights running until 1:30 but turned off all the sound (witnessed by the appropriate authorities).
Sure enough, got a complaint. They never managed to locdge a complaint.
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If he wins though, I feel a sudden onset of the same ailment.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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The Old, Old Story
Apropos of nothing at all, it is understandable that a girl who has no experience dealing with paranoids might be initially flattered by the inordinate attention, before realizing that someone was too creepy to sleep with, and that when she was forced to tell someone that he was not her lord and master, there might be a bit of a contretemps.
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oh!
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Re: Build a Faraday cage!
If this man claims to have such sensitivity, he must build a faraday cage, and live in there.
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Seriously, though. This seems like a strange phobia of some sort, and the man needs help. Hopefully the courts will be sensitive to that, and will find a way to help him.
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Re: Re: anti-wifi hats?
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What a total crock of crap
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Evolution
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Aluminum Foil Hat will save the day! NT
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Re: Safer nearer a mast
Sure enough, got a complaint.
Reminds me of the time when my model aircraft club received a noise complaint - when they were flying gliders...
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Faraday cage
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Re:
I think you're onto something. Or maybe he just hasn't gotten around to suing everyone else. Perhaps he can sue the sun as well, since the sun releases all sorts of radiation too.
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Re: Why is he on Earth's surface?
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Yay natural selection!
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I feel sorry
Shiat.
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Re:
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Weather
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They also make swell hats!
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Re: Re:
http://www.aehf.com/articles/em_sensitive.html
While I would never city a wiki as anything more that a general discussion of matters, there is one wiki that touches upon the subject matter of sensitity to electromagnetic raidiation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity
The human body is in part a complex electronic circuit, and it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that some people just might have negative interactions with external electromagnetic radiation that are not experienced by the populous at large.
Once again, this individual may be blowing smoke and working a personal agenda, but this alone is an insufficient basis to definitively opine that all persons who may claim to have electromagnetic sensitivity are blowing smoke as well.
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Re: Re:
Don't tell others what to do. He can post if he wants, even if he can't remember the study.
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The SubGenius Hour of Slack
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Re: Unreal
All they are to society is a way of making money, no one even sees them as people anymore. The list of comments on this story are the most uncivilized I've seen yet!
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Re: About electromagnetic sensitivity
She still wanted to use it and try to work around her physical reaction to it so she started looking for something to help shield her head from the device. She found this little plastic shield thing that had something embedded in it that would shield her from the fields and since she started using it she hasn't had a problem.
It is possible that this was psychological, but it took her a while to determine that her headaches were caused by her phone. So it may not be. None the less, I think we know too little about the human brain and the effects things have on it to really know for sure. It is possible that people with the extreme sensitivity to the fields are very very rare and none ended up in that double-blind study.
All I know is I am open to the possibility. But I think this guy may be over-reacting a bit. He should look for a more diplomatic solution because he is going to run into these problems wherever he goes these days. Course, given that thought it is more than likely the guy is being a hypochondriac.
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paint
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Re: paint
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Re: Re: Build a Faraday cage!
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Re:
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Re: The Old, Old Story
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Re: Wth
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Re: About electromagnetic sensitivity
Some disorders cause iron to collect in the body, especially the liver. I have no idea if the levels involved could explain feeling an MRI, but that's something I would learn about -- and even get checked for -- if I were in your situation, tangibly sensitive to magnetic fields others can't feel (regardless of the MRI tech's nonchalance). Look up [hemochromatosis] for more info.
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Re: Re:
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Re: Morons
We have all see lying, cheating and stealing attorneys at law on TV and know that you can sue someone somewhere for just about anything. Once upon a time the law was a mechanism to bring the unjust to justice and write those who have been wronged.
Now it is riddled with morons trying to find new ways to bilk money out of someone or some company and a host of unscrupulous vultures ready to help make it happen.
So when you take the moron who drums up a case like this out back to be beaten, make sure you take his attorney with him as they both need a few good lashes.
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I think this group of technologically literate
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I think this group of technologically literate
The simple truth is that many people experience negative symptoms from exposure to Cell Phones, Wi-Fi and other sources of Digital, Pulsed Microwave Radiation -- as well as high exposure to Electromagnetic Fields.
The Earth's Natural Magnetic Field is NOT the same as Digital, Pulsed Microwave Radiation from Wireless Devices and is a bogus comparison to make.
...and anyone here that doesn't understand that RF exposure levels are a largely a function of distance from the source, has no business making stupid generalizations about the other distant sources of RF, Mr. Firstenberg may or may not be exposed to.
Mr. Firstenberg has every right to have peace and health within his home. The fact is, if your neighbor's stereo was on too loud, you would have legal rights.
Since the FCC decided that any neighbor can now radiate the crap out of you for 24 hours a day, people like Mr. Firstenberg have suffered enormously....It is not right and it needs legal attention. ...
and for the record, there are many people here knocking the guy who quite probably experience vague and uncomfortable symptoms for precisely the same reason as Mr. Firstenberg, but haven't been aware enough to make the correlation. I mean -- study it! What would it take?
http://www.weepinitiative.org/
I find it disgusting that "technically" minded people would be so quick to judge a guy they haven't met living an experience they know nothing about.
For the more inquisitive people: Here's a free book that describes the experience of 400 MORE people just like Mr. Firstenberg...
Free PDF: http://www.feb.se/feb/blackonwhite-abstract.pdf
and a totally unrelated blog on people that get symptoms from cell phones (not unlike the stories reported here!):
http://antipixel.com/blog/archives/2003/10/01/more_cellphone_sickness.html
...and a totally unrelated site that tells some very nightmarish stories about people's close proximity exposure living next to Cell Phone Towers:
http://www.mast-victims.org/
...and all the journal articles you could ever want that clearly establish a basis for concern with regard to these exposures that we are all involuntarily exposed to:
http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/science/studies.asp
This guy is not nuts...But he is ill....and I don't think that he ought be discarded, but rather understood and listened to.
There are more than one or two people on this very blog that ostensibly are saying the same thing as this guy -- and further there are many more people all over the World.
This IS a serious Public Health issue and this guy has a lot of balls for standing up and calling attention to it.
Surely, it is a rather thankless effort he is making. ...and for those suggesting he is motivated by money -- I think you should STFU...
He isn't suing for gobs of money... He is suing for the freedom to be in his home without being made ill from his neighbor's f-ing toys.
Internets -- stop being judgemental morons. He may very well be onto something that you and your own family ought care about.
Here are some sites about Electrical Hypersensitivity..
Invest 3 minutes and look into this...The Guy is the first of many that will suffer like this.
http://www.electrosensitivity.co.uk/ and another
http://www.weepinitiative.org/ and another:
http://www.feb.se/index_int.htm and another:
http://www.electrosensitivity.org/
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Re: I think this group of technologically literate
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Re: I think this group of technologically literate
As far as not being able to stay at a hotel is also a fib, there are plenty hotels out there not offering WiFi, or even wired internet for that matter. I also suppose cellphones were just invented yesterday!! Get a grip!
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Re: I think this group of technologically literate
http://www.electrosensitivity.co.uk/index.html
sells medals that will protect you from ElectroSmog for only 75 pounds. This is total crap and anyone who believes it is not technologically literate. They also sell bracelets to protect you and all kinds of overpriced useless junk. Yes, JUNK. Any website that says Electromagnetic radiation is harmful while selling junk is a scam.
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Re: Proven to be BS...
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Re: Re: anti-wifi hats?
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Re: About electromagnetic sensitivity
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Re:
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Lets think it all the way through
The article states that he claims to have to sleep in his car. Why does he have a car? If wifi and cell make him so ill it would be very irresponsible of him to be driving. After all, he may drive past someone with a cell phone and/or laptop in their car, or just walking down the street, become ill, crash, and kill someone. Should we ban all other vehicles and/or people when he is driving? or just him. Or, when this happens, maybe find him guilty of murder, like drunk driving, because he knew this could be the outcome. What about his employer? Should they ban all wifi and cell phones at work, just for him? What happens when the company goes out of bushiness because it cant keep up with the technology the competition utilizes? Or maybe society should pay for him to exist somewhere outside of that society, just so that it can move forward without him and not be a burden to him? A one way plane ticket to somewhere obscure would be cheaper and SAFER for him and society. Mind you thats IF he can prove it and win in court.
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Re: Re: Morons
In what country. I'd like to move there.
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Re: Proven to be BS...
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Re: What a total crock of crap
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Re: Why is he on Earth's surface?
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Re: Re: Re: anti-wifi hats?
I just spit Pepsi through my nose. Thanks for the laugh of the week. :)
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Re: I think this group of technologically literate
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People
Just like non-smoking sections, we may need to implement a non-wifi section. It would certainly shut that guy up.
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Re: I think this group of technologically literate
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/health/Cell-Phone-Use-May-Help-Prevent-Alzheimers-80998152.html
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@ all
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Re: Re: Re:
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Better yet
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Re: I think this group of technologically literate
I myself feel weird when Kitchen Microwave is working at high values.
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Re: Re: Build a Faraday cage!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126221116097210861.html
He could wrap his house in cheap chicken fencing and gain the dual benefits of peace of mind for his psychosomatic illness AND keeping his chickens inside.
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Re:
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Re: About electromagnetic sensitivity
The sun puts off more EM radiation than anything here on Earth. Heck, satellites are always beaming radio waves down on us since Sputnik. TV and Radio stations have a much higher output than your WIFI or phone.
When I used to live in Dallas, I could feel the build up to a lightning strike. I do remember this release of energy is what, 1.21 Gigawatts of energy and I only sensed it a mere second or two before it hit.
Hypochondriac is what that nut job is.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: anti-wifi hats?
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Re: Better yet
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Re: About electromagnetic sensitivity
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Don't use foil hats... they amplify !
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Re: I think this group of technologically literate
...and for those suggesting he is motivated by money -- I think you should STFU...
"""
W00t, I don't have to STFU -- I think he's motivated by crazy!
Also, you are either selling snake oil or you are a gullible idiot. Take your pick.
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Re: Media Hogwash Scare Tactics
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this is for real
My husband is electrically sensitive, and we have tried all sorts of shielding in our house. It doesn't work. We still have at least 6 wifi signals coming in from our neighbors at any given time, and we don't live all that close to them. Why is it a big deal to turn off your wifi when you are sleeping???
I am an attorney and not a wacko, and I can attest that this is a real illness. One day it will be recognized (it is a protected disability in Sweden). So don't be so quick to judge. Though I think it is too bad that this guy had to resort to a lawsuit. Shameful that neighbors aren't more considerate of others. Happy for you to have your wifi in your house, but why does it have to be in mine?
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For real?
Let's give a realistic example:
I live next to you. You have a dog. I'm allergic to dogs, so I sue you to get rid of the dog or have it put down...
I live next to you. I'm allergic to perfume. Occassionally, some of your perfume wafts over and I get sick... so I sue you to prevent you from using perfume.
Get real. YOUR health is YOUR responsibility. People should stop trying to get others to bend over backwards to accomodate them.
If you have an allergy to wi-fi, then you need to pick yourself up and move yourself elsewhere, or find a solution that doesn't involve trying to catapult the rest of the world around back to the stone age.
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On another note, there are people who can feel the magnetic field in MRI machines because the machine puts out a field 10000 times stronger than any wifi ever could. Deal with it people, the guy is a nut.
I have nerve damage in my shoulder and the only reason I can feel magnetic or electric waves around me is because of the damage. Without the nerves being that sensitive I wouldn't even notice!
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wifi makes me sick
I can't begin to tell you how dizzy and nauseas I can feel after using the computer for extended periods of time. Horrible...
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Clearing up a few points
What the article does not state is that Mr. Firstenberg offered his neighbor $10,000 to turn off to use a landline at home instead of the cell phone and ethernet connections for her computers instead of wireless ones. Secondly, he is not suing her for money, but simply to comply with his request so he can move back into his home.
I am also quite certain he is telling the truth about his sensitivity and that it is not psychosomatic in cause. The day I met him, he knew I carried a cell phone on me even though I had said cell phone hidden in my pocket. His condition has also been measured by health professionals (suffice it to say his case is very severe, the details really aren't the business of people who don't know him personally) and he has been recognized by the government and ADA as disabled.
As for building a Faraday cage, firstly, he does not do well with metal, and secondly there are limits to what a Faraday cage can block. It seems static and slowly varying magnetic waves get through even the high quality ones.
The German government has issued a health warning regarding cell phones, wifi, and other electrical smog. And the Germans are a very technological people. http://www.celsias.com/article/german-government-warns-of-dangers-of-wi-fi/
There have been many studies on electromagnetic radiation, many of which were on animals, not humans, and there have been contradicting results, but here is a good study. http://www.globalchange.com/radiation.htm
From that website, one quote of particular interest:This offers an explanation for why some people would be significantly more electromagnetically sensitive than others.
No, he has a handheld wifi scanner. They sell such things so that people can easily find a good wifi signal without the inconvenience of carrying their laptop around to every possible location. So, you do not need an entire laptop just to scan for networks. He does not in fact have any sort of personal computer, and uses a old-fashioned typewriter for writing. Regarding the weather in Santa Fe: this is high desert. In other words, we experience rapid temperature drops come nightfall. Tell that to the American Disabilities Association.[ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]
Wi Fi Sensitivity
The most common syndrome that has come into being since the mid-1990s is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS), Fibromyalgia Syndrome (FMS), and Burning Mouth Syndrome (BMS).
All of these syndromes are debilitating and undiagnosable.
After reading many of the comments it's obvious that many show the lack of respect or understanding of the electro magnetic fields, and consider themselves an armchair expert.
I don't intend to go into detail nor try to defend the person who has been accused of suing some other person, which is basically a misconception and distortion of the real truth.
If all those misinformed people who made comments that were no more than toilet remarks, they need to do some research just by punching into GOOGLE search engine: "Dangers of WI FI", "Dangers of DECT phones", and "Dangers of Cordless Phones".
There has been much research completed, but sadly the powers of power and control have more to say than the real, honest, and knowledgeable people.
Like all things these days GREED is the essence of knowledge.
Fifty years ago they said that asbestos wouldn’t kill you.
If the sensitivity to other Wi Fi communications equipment is noted by most Computer Technical Forums, by suggesting to encase such equipment in a Faraday cage to eliminate interference and control, then why is it so that a human body that is a form of an electro magnetic system that is controlled by electric pulses by the brain cannot be effected by Wi Fi emissions.
It’s very obvious that all these armchair experts who make ridiculous and offensive remarks about the person in question, has as much intelligence and commonsense as the fingernail of my little finger.
Always remember that even DDT was claimed to be safe, and then again Dieldrin in the 1970s was also claimed to be safe, and then again the tobacco companies ensured the smokers that smoking cigarettes was also safe.
It's a shame that all the EMR has stewed the brain of these so-called armchair experts.
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Re: Clearing up a few points
I am a Wi Fi sufferer and suffer extreme health problems ever since our retirement village removed the safe and reliable cable/phone emergency call system and replaced it with seven HF and Wi Fi wireless transmitters.
My health problems became worse and as usual the medicos always diagnose old age.
Then for three days the Wi Fi transmitters had been turned off accidently for three days and during those three days my health was normal. I had no idea that the Wi Fi had been turned off, but couldn't believe the renewal of my health for that short time.
It has got worse since they have now increased the output of these Wi Fi transmitters, and have constructed more mobile phone towers around were I live.
The increase of brain tumoure in children under the age of 12 years is staggering, and including all other illnesses, such as ADD, Autism, and Cerebal Palsy.
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Wireless sensitivity
I am in my late fifties and since retiring I have spent a lot of time enjoying the computer. My daughter had a Mac lap top and I saw the freedom it gave her then wanting to do emailing and other things without be confined to your computer room. Last year for my birthday I was given one of the new smaller netbooks. It was just what I needed, and I could take it anywhere or watch tv at night and do my emailing. I loved it. About four months ago my hands started getting this terrible painful tingling and the tips of my fingers would start to swell. My husband who has worked with computers for years at our university told me I could be developing a sensitivity to my wireless netbook. I had never heard of such a thing and continued to use my netbook but the pain became worse in my hands almost like I had a shock when you plug in something and it short circuts. I knew it was not carputunal.
My husband suggested not using my netbook for a few days and I did and the pain went away. When I went back to using it because I didn't want to give it up and I am very stubborn but it became worse. In fact before my hands even reached the keyboard I had pain and I would still use it and then the pain would go up my arm and ended up feeling sick.
I am not exaggerating and never would believe this and am so frustrated because I am so limited to using it now.
Some people with silly false stories ruin for the ones who suffer and then people think your a over reacting. My daughter is a nurse and finds this hard to believe but my husband says this is what is causing all my pain and when I don't use it I have no pain in fact in a lot of pain sending this message
Believe me if you want I am just telling you my story and not happy that this has happened
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Re: Re: I'm sensitive to eletromagnetic radiation too.
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