Share/E-mail This Story

Email This



Is Hiding A New DRM Standard Behind The Guise Of 'It Works On Any Device' Really That Compelling?

from the not-convinced dept

A few months back, we wrote about Disney's attempt to create a new kind of DRM called "keychest" that would supposedly let a "buyer" (really, limited use "renter") access the content he or she paid for on a variety of devices. As I noted at the time, all this was really doing was giving you back your fair use rights on content, while wrapping it in additional DRM. Many noted that this was actually Disney's attempt to respond to a wider industry initiative (that Disney is not a part of) called DECE for Digital Entertainment Content Ecosystem. While many are excited about this, I still fail to see what the big deal is. With the Consumer Electronics Show underway this week, DECE is getting a ton of publicity, where it will be demoed. But it's still the same old story. It's giving you your fair use rights wrapped up in another layer of DRM that you have to hope never goes away. It's good that the industry is finally realizing that locking you to a single device is a bad idea, but this isn't the solution.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    icon
    The Buzz Saw (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 5:21pm

    before & after

    It's also funny how they pretend that DRM somehow magically *added* that interoperability, but it was there already. If anything, it is false advertising. My DRM-free content works just fine on all devices. What is so special about DECE?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    icon
    ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 5:23pm

    tl;dr

    MP3s are ubiquitous, but easily copyable. That's Bad!

    Apple will sell music with DRM. That's Great!

    Now we're stuck with Apple as a retailer. That's Bad!

    DVDs are ubiquitous, but easily copyable. That's Bad!

    Apple will sell... Hey wait a minute. We could be Apple!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 5:33pm

    Re: tl;dr

    Comment of the day. First one of the new year...

    Nicely done...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    icon
    Dark Helmet (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 5:35pm

    Sigh...

    I'd like to come up with some awesome analysis of this move...but I can't. When I read what the Mouse is trying to do here, the picture in my mind is too disturbing.

    It's as if we told them we like cupcakes. Then they realized they make really good cupcakes that we'd like to consume. So they called a press conference to announce the cupcakes, showed them to us from the dais, closed their eyes and enjoyed the applause....and then promptly pulled down their trousers and took a big steamy shit on the cupcakes and said, "TA-DAA! Disney cupcakes! Get 'em while their stinky!"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    icon
    Dark Helmet (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 5:40pm

    Re: Re: tl;dr

    "Comment of the day. First one of the new year..."

    The Helmet demands a running tally, including NFL style standings and the total number of COTDs listed in our "Insider" profiles.

    So the Helmet has written it, so it should be done....

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    icon
    ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 5:53pm

    Re: Re: tl;dr

    Aw, shucks. *kicks the sawdust*

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 6:04pm

    Hang on a second--

    Isn't everyone who wants to reformat purchased single-format content to enable playing on multiple devices kind of already doing it? It's not exactly difficult. Sure, it requires physical storage instead of streaming, but that's cheap. How can these people be hanging their hope on this tech? It hasn't even come out and it's already obsolete.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    icon
    ChurchHatesTucker (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 6:08pm

    Re: Re: Re: tl;dr

    "The Helmet demands a running tally, including NFL style standings and the total number of COTDs listed in our "Insider" profiles."

    I demand a 'degree of difficulty' modifier for not having an Insider tag.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 6:20pm

    Re: Re: Re: tl;dr

    Right.
    Must we remind you that your first post today was after 4:00 pacific, 6:00 central. I'll keep this in mind.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    icon
    Dark Helmet (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 6:26pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: tl;dr

    Sadly, the Helmet had a heavier workload than usual today. The Helmet humbles himself before you...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    icon
    Overcast (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 6:42pm

    Will it work for devices in the future?

    What if a new format comes out that would require 13TB - or 130TB - of digital storage for a movie - perhaps 3D or something holographic? Would available bandwidth be viable for that? Particularly if the media in question could easily hold that. And if not, will they freely ship what you have 'bought' on the new media?

    Or - more likely - will they refuse to convert the older shows to the new technology for fear of just that. (with the assumption that's all possible - and who can say?)


    However; I do like the concept of buying the 'rights' to a program, and being able to get it on whatever media - whenever. That would solve a number of problems - but the CORE question then is - will it be retroactive since many of us have already 'bought' the rights for many shows, correct?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 6:42pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tl;dr

    Perhaps. However, you have been known to post early in the morning or even during lunch. Maybe you need a more capable smart phone than the one you're currently toting around. Have you considered that one made by Apple? I've heard great things about it; and I think, gosh, I think it's called an "aPhone" as in "ApplePhone".

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    icon
    TW Burger (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 6:49pm

    Re: Sigh...

    Hmmmmmm! Disney Cupcakes - slobber, drool...

    Any and all content in this post is work of fiction and is in no way depicting any person living or dead or in any way ripping of a Fox Network animated series. Also, Disney only has the global public good in mind in all of business they partake in.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    icon
    The Anti-Mike (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 7:15pm

    DECE or something similar is likely what the future holds. It is the sort of system that balances artists rights and consumers rights, giving the consumer pretty much all of their fair use rights, while giving the artists / rights holders the confidence that their products are more difficult to share without permission.

    The true completion of this sort of a system will be when resale rights are handled correctly, such that content and devices could be resold without the risks of content migrating without permission.

    I cannot see which of the blessed fair use rights would be missing under such a system.

    Oh Mike, your forgot "DRM tax" and "Bono sucks" in this thread.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    icon
    Designerfx (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 7:18pm

    old media

    old media has enormous pull and somehow gets publicans on horrible garbage like DECE mostly because 90% of the journalists out there aren't even remotely credible but still tend to have links to giant publicans that put out this "DECE IS GREAT" stuff everywhere.

    DECE isn't going to take care of squat, antimike.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 7:27pm

    Re:

    Except DECE will inevitably fail. The reasons can be found in Shannon's maxim and Kerckhoffs' Principle.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    identicon
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 7:39pm

    The Citizen Kane Tactic

    Anybody else remember that scene in “Citizen Kane”, where Kane (Orson Welles) is nobly explaining to his friend (Joseph Cotton) how he will “give the people their rights”? And Cotton points out that rights are something the people already have, they don’t need his permission?

    In honour of that, I propose that we label these “kinder, gentler DRM” subterfuges as the “Citizen Kane tactic”.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 7:50pm

    Re:

    Remember back in the late 90s when major copyright holders were asked to predict what the future held for them and their content?

    They were all wrong. Copyright will be rendered obsolete in the near future. Good luck.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    icon
    The Anti-Mike (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 7:56pm

    Re: old media

    Please, humor me.

    If you can use your content on any device...

    if you can resell your content....

    what is missing?

    (by the way, there is this "reply to this comment" thing at the bottom of posts, which helps keep your comments in thread)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:00pm

    Yawn

    Expecting Disney to embrace fair and balanced copyright is like expecting fair and balanced news reporting out of Faux "News". Not gonna happen Bucky, so move on.

    Take nothing from the Copyright Cartel, give nothing to the Copyright cartel. The Copyright cartel does not exist! Your objection is best in the form of not consuming intellectual property as a first user. Only buy used DVDs, CDs, and disconnect cable, sat, or UVerse.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    icon
    TW Burger (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:00pm

    What is the Solution?

    If a 'keychest' is not the solution to multiple device capability for DRM controlled media what is?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:03pm

    Re: Re: old media

    There is also the possibility that the DECE is making a flawed bet on the direction of technology and emerging consumer habits.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:04pm

    Re: What is the Solution?

    If you removed the DRM . . .

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    icon
    TW Burger (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:13pm

    Re: Re: What is the Solution?

    But then everyone will copy Mickey Mouse and all of the Disney executives will be made homeless.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: What is the Solution?

    Isn't Mickey Mouse just a blantant ripoff of Buster Keaton's Steamboat Bill, anyway?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:23pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the Solution?

    I've just had an idea for a cartoon character that looks like Buster Keaton but his hair is styled to resemble two black circles.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    icon
    TW Burger (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the Solution?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:37pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the Solution?

    I'll call the character Buster Facein!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    identicon
    Not Again ..., Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:42pm

    Re:

    Some time ago it was said that the future was eight track.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    icon
    TW Burger (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:48pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the Solution?

    I'm telling mom on you!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 8:58pm

    I am still attempting to understand where it is established as a matter of law that the duplication of a copyrighted work other than a computer program intended as a backup is a priori a fair use. Certainly the Betamax decision made no such unqualified holding, opting instead to rely upon the Plaintiff's/Respondent's evidence produced at trial to declare that it had failed to produce evidence sufficient to overcome the evidence produced at trial by the Defendant/Appellant pertaining to fair use as set forth at 17 USC 107.

    This is a far cry from unequivocally stating that duplication of a copyrighted work, even if for non-commercial purposes, is an unqualified legal right inuring to one who makes a duplicate.

    As a practical matter, I have a difficult time believing that a copyright holder in the music and movie industries would peek through people's windows and file a lawsuit challenging the making of a back up copy (of course the anti-circumvention provisions of the DCMA raise other issues not pertinent to this comment). Nevertheless, to say that in-home duplicators have surrendered fair use rights because of DRM, and that the approach currently associated with Disney "gives back" some of those rights is in my view inaccurate under existing statutory law and judicial decisions by the Supreme Court.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 9:22pm

    Re:

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    icon
    The Anti-Mike (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 9:48pm

    Re: Re: Re: old media

    there is also a possibility that monkeys may fly out of your butt. What's the point?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    icon
    The Anti-Mike (profile), Jan 4th, 2010 @ 10:06pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the Solution?

    What is really funny is watching one person have a conversation with themselves as two different names. It's like mental masturbation.

    It also suggests that a course of lithium might be in order.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 10:15pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: old media

    Because for the past 10 years I've been hearing how the content industries are going to join the digital revolution with their great offerings and products and strategies.

    I'm still waiting. We're all still waiting. Perhaps they should just sue someone?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 4th, 2010 @ 10:15pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the Solution?

    Fuck you asshole.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 12:47am

    Re:

    DECE or something similar is likely what the future holds. It is the sort of system that balances artists rights and consumers rights, giving the consumer pretty much all of their fair use rights, while giving the artists / rights holders the confidence that their products are more difficult to share without permission.


    I'll let Ed Felten answer that one...

    "As usual, we’ll kick off the new year by reviewing the predictions we made for the previous year. Here now, our 2009 predictions, in italics, with hindsight in ordinary type.

    (1) DRM technology will still fail to prevent widespread infringement. In a related development, pigs will still fail to fly.

    By tradition this is our first prediction, and it has always been accurate. Guess what our first 2010 prediction will be? Verdict: right."

    See http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/2009-predictions-scorecard

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    TFP, Jan 5th, 2010 @ 12:57am

    lol

    'giving the consumer pretty much all of their fair use rights, while giving the artists / rights holders the confidence that their products are more difficult to share without permission.'

    ha ha ha ha ha etc... What, you mean for the entire week it exists before being cracked?

    This comment copyrighted 2010.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    icon
    Richard (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 1:01am

    Re: old media - publicans

    In our country (UK) publicans are the people who own/run public houses (AKA pubs - bars in US).

    Your talk of "Giant publicans" conjured up a strange image in my mind.

    We have a comedian over here called Al Murray who has a persona as "the pub landlord" (ie publican).

    http://www.thepublandlord.com/

    I was imagining a HUGE version of him.....

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    icon
    The Anti-Mike (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 1:03am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: old media

    I guess you got an extra cup of fresh koolaid, you are just repeating Mike's posts of the day now.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    identicon
    :), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 1:54am

    Rent.

    We don't own anything as the industry so quickly likes to point out every chance it gets so why pay $10 dollars? or 5 or even 1.

    The right price for me is something like $0.05.

    Why?

    Because it is a service, and should be priced low so everyone can pay per use. 300 million people wouldn't just use it once if it was dirty cheap they could even use more without even realizing but at $10 a pop, do people start to get conscious about expending and they form that mental barrier against it.

    0.05 x 1000(uses) = 50 bucks.

    300 million x 50 = 15 billion dollars.
    or

    0.05 x 100(uses) = 5

    300 million x 5 = 1.5 billion dollars.

    Of course this is an oversimplification but the potential there is huge and that price range is still high.

    Google has it right when it pays something like $0.001 LoL

    In the U.S. people still don't use their phones to pay for something or can't buy gift cards that contain credits to make purchases online(great to give it to kids as allowance) but the guy that makes an app for cellphones that contacts paypal or something like that and get nanopayments will be king of the hill.

    That price range is so cheap that people wouldn't bother to loose or maintain anything they can always go back and get more and they probably will go to the original creator, no need for DRM, friends could get together and watch or listen to hours without making worrying about going hungry.

    To me it makes a lot of sense to see the recursive nature of repeated payment instead of a one off every decade or so.

    Before anyone think this is nuts just consider how financial institutions make money out of people they don't charge $10 dollars a pop they charge little fees that get lost in the statements.

    Comcast I think have 12 million customers.
    0.05 x 12M = 600 000

    So that is a 1 day revenue stream in 30 days it would be 18M dollars if everyone just saw 1 program at a time and that is 219M per 365 days of course people wouldn't just use it once they would use it more.

    1x = 219 Millions
    10x = 2.19 Billions
    100x = 21.9 Billions(more money then the entire industry did worldwide)

    And this people are preocupied about plastic discs?

    100 songs listening would cost the customers 5 dollars.

    Now why the entertainment industry guys are so dumb?

    That sounds about right to me

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
    identicon
    :), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 2:20am

    Rent.

    I remember in the 80's people talking about how TV was killing books, people didn't read which I think was not true, people just didn't buy books they read a lot because every time I was in a public library it was always packed.

    Now that digital came publisher are seeing interest in paying again. They will screw it up if they go the price hiking way again.

    For the music industry I hope they die and I am waiting for news of great names of the past struggling to make the end of the month.

    I will never buy a copyrighted thing ever, I may use it from friends but I will never ever again pay money to this kind of mechanisms.

    I'm looking forward to the open culture(also known as free culture) movement to pick up pace it will happen because society is not being able to cope with the greed of some people and it will find ways to balance itself the first salvo was piracy and it mimics exactly what it did happen in the software industry as I recall. First the pirates cracked the stuff and distributed I remember going to my friends houses to trade games and I learn how to crack things, it was easy in those days just a security bit turn on and off I even learn how to debug and trace things and use JMP command, it was a lot of fun, but those days are gone for me now I help others do things because I just realized that money doesn't substitute work done, the important part in live is create something original or not and that is what creates wealth not money, money is a vehicle to producing stuff to get people who otherwise would not want to work together to do something.

    Governments should be worried because people forgot for a moment that they could do things by themselves but they are starting to wake up to the fact that if people want something they have to do it to themselves and companies will loose their monopolies as people start embracing new paradigms.

    Lets change the world embracing the open movement that is growing around the world.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    icon
    techflaws.org (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 3:14am

    DRM will fail

    "Oh Mike, your forgot "DRM tax" and "Bono sucks" in this thread."

    Oh Anti-Mike, you forgot to mention any benefit of DRM for the consumer. Oh wait, you can't cause there is none!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 5:15am

    Re:

    "giving the consumer pretty much all of their fair use rights"

    DRM, by definition, removes fair use rights. It's impossible to have a DRM that gives you all of your rights. If it only retains "pretty much" all your rights, you still lose *something* (most likely the ability to play back on non-approved devices, maintaining the status quo for Microsoft, Apple, et al., at the expense of new innovators in the market).

    Unless you can actually come up with an actual reason why any of this is beneficial for the consumer, then it's simply not. Therefore, it won't be universally acceptable and will do nothing to stop "piracy". As often maintained here, it only takes one cracked copy of a DRM file to make the DRM useless and only affecting those who buy content. "Pirates" are not penalised.

    "I cannot see which of the blessed fair use rights would be missing under such a system."

    Off the top of my head:

    - The ability to play back the content you have bought on the device of your choosing (you're an idiot if you think that all "minority" systems such as Linux, Archos, older legacy systems, etc. will be universally supported by such a scheme.).
    - The ability to back up said content for personal use.
    - The ability to edit & remix content for non-commercial use & personal use.
    - The ability to play back content legally purchased from outside of your current physical region.
    - The ability to transform the data to another medium (e.g. CD to MP3, burning a standard DVD from a digital file).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    identicon
    Not a big fan, Jan 5th, 2010 @ 5:24am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: old media

    koolaid ? - really ?
    I'm sure you are capable of better retort than that. Please let's try to put in a little more effort here - ok ?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    icon
    PaulT (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 5:27am

    Re: tl;dr

    The new Apple contains potassium benzoate...

    ...that's bad!

    (sorry, had to - Simpsons fan)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    icon
    Steve R. (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 5:28am

    Did You Read The NYT Article?

    The underlying New York Times article has some scary implications. Mitch Singer of Sony Pictures Entertainment is quoted as saying: "“Consumers shouldn’t have to know what’s inside,” he said. “They should just know it will play.”". Note the company name, Sony. Sony brought us the famous rootkit scandal. So here we have an implementation of a hidden DRM that effectively deprived the consumer of their rights to use their equipment as they wish.

    This concept of "hiding" the technology also applies to the whole network neutrality debate. As Comcast already demonstrated, they can manage the flow of packets in an undisclosed manner. So given the capability, companies will implement since they have little respect for the consumers rights.

    Clearly, the use of surreptitiously "hidden" technologies allows companies to turn your computer (device) into a zombie device that you loose control over.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    identicon
    not his biggest fan, Jan 5th, 2010 @ 5:29am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the Solution?

    TAM, an expert at everything.
    Now possessing clairvoyance and an MD degree
    amazing isn't it

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    identicon
    yikes, Jan 5th, 2010 @ 5:33am

    Re: Did You Read The NYT Article?

    Hopefully, their black box does not become mandatory for the little people to own and carry at all times.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    identicon
    Luci, Jan 5th, 2010 @ 5:44am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: old media

    And you continue to spout the same retoric we hear from the recording industry year after year. DRM does nothing but piss people off. We expect to be making a purchase, but DRM defies that, makes it a rental. Sorry, I'll record it off the radio, first. See, I've got this great thing called a computer? Will let me turn those tapes into MP3s? I've already done it with the stacks of audio cassettes from the 80s.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    identicon
    Vincent Clement, Jan 5th, 2010 @ 6:25am

    Re: Re: old media

    If you can use your content on any device...

    That is a big if.

    My wife can't watch several DVDs of her legally purchased Lost Season 2 on a variety of devices, especially older ones. Thank you copy protection.

    So I rip a copy that strips away all the protections, fake vts and errors, burn a copy and voila she can watch them on any of the devices that the original discs did not play in.

    When you start pissing off people that legally purchase a product, your business model is bound to fail.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    icon
    Dark Helmet (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 6:35am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tl;dr

    Ah, me already likes me smart phone. Droid does. In my office, however, Verizon does not....

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 6:57am

    Re: Sigh...

    "I'd like to come up with some awesome analysis of this move...but I can't."

    I'm predicting this is the start of a new marketing program to try and get people to the that the "rights" in DRM refers to the consumer's rights. "DRM: ensuring your rights to interoperablity!" A bit like how they tried to convince us that "trusted computing" meant that they were ensuring that you can trust your computer.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  
    icon
    John Fenderson (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 7:02am

    Re: Re: old media

    "If you can use your content on any device..."

    You won't be able to. You'll only be able to use the content on approved devices, not any device. To support "any device" would eliminate the entire purpose of DRM, and so they wouldn't go to the expense of doing it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  
    icon
    Almost Anonymous (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 8:46am

    Re:

    Zomg, I can't believe it. I almost agree with TAM.

    Many sci-fi writers foresee a similar fate, and I wouldn't be so bothered *IF* resale rights were preserved. Can you imagine a musician doing a limited run of 10,000 mp3s? Essentially digital goods would no longer be infinite. However this scenario would require a complete alteration of both the fabric of the internet and computing as a whole, since as we know this would require enforcement at the hardware level.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  
    icon
    Daemon_ZOGG (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 9:59am

    DECE "IS" Just Another DRM Problem For Consumers...

    Just remember: All of those movies you already have in your personal home collection.. If you want to make use of your DECE "Digital Rights Vault", you'll have to buy those movies you have ALL OVER AGAIN. It's just another way for the industry to make you buy more hardware to watch media locked into another DRM environment.
    You'll either need a computer, a "special" set-top device, or an expensive television to view your movies.
    }:p

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  
    identicon
    Oboewan, Jan 5th, 2010 @ 10:54am

    I haven't read any of these comments but I'm just going to say one thing:

    Playsforsure.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 5th, 2010 @ 10:57am

    Re: Re: old media

    If nothing is missing, the DRM would have no reason to exist. Logic fail.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    icon
    chris (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 12:18pm

    Re: Re:

    from that article i think number 32 is more relevant:

    (32) The present proliferation of incompatible set-top boxes that aim to connect your TV to the Internet will lead to the establishment of a huge industry consortium with players from three major interest groups (box builders, content providers, software providers), reminiscent of the now-defunct SDMI consortium, and with many of the same members. In 2009, they will generate a variety of press releases but will accomplish nothing.

    An initiative called DECE tried to do exactly this, with the predicted results. Verdict: right.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  
    icon
    senshikaze (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 12:46pm

    Re: Re: old media

    what about me? I use Linux only. I seriously doubt "any device" will include "any device" i own.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  
    icon
    Henry Emrich (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 5:38pm

    You "almost agree" with Anti-Mike? That's really pitiful.

    "Many sci-fi writers foresee a similar fate,"

    Please point us to them, preferably one that actually had an understanding of what digital content even *is.


    "and I wouldn't be so bothered *IF* resale rights were preserved."

    That's what the corporate scumbags deploying this idiocy are counting on: you don't give a shit about *principles* like fair use, why copyright is only intended to last a limited time, etc. -- YOU just want to be 'permitted" to "re-sell" existing copies. In other words, you take the "secondary market" enabled by the "first-sale" doctrine (or whatever it's local equivalent happens to be in any given jurisdiction) FOR GRANTED, and just want to cash in on it.


    "Can you imagine a musician doing a limited run of 10,000 mp3s?"

    Can you imagine anybody actually giving a shit about it if somebody *did*? Let's ignore the colossal hubris involved in taking advantages of the *benefits* of digital technology while counting on the "enforced scarcity" afforded by analog media. (Well, not actually even by analog media -- that CAN be copied, too -- we've just permitted an entire sub-specialty of lawyers, lobbyists, and leeches tasked with trying to prevent it.)


    "Essentially digital goods would no longer be infinite."

    Ah, the "Fritz Chip" scenario -- the ultimate corporate media/government wet dream. Pity it hasn't actually worked out (technical savvy + political principles = "black hat" subversives who break anything like that AS A MATTER OF BASIC PRINCIPLE.)

    "However this scenario would require a complete alteration of both the fabric of the internet and computing as a whole, since as we know this would require enforcement at the hardware level."

    It would also require:

    1. All previous non-hobbled formats/anything capable of playing them back to magically disappear, which is impossible, for the simple reason that people *do* want interoperability/backward compatibility with the rest of their media.

    2. By definition, the only truly "unbreakable" encryption is something equivalent to the one-time pad. Read up on it, sometime -- it's fascinating. One of the really amazing attributes of it, in terms of making DRM completely pointless, is that in order to be *really* secure, the "hardware-level enforcement" would *also* have to be invisible even to the "authorizing" authority. So how do you propose to make the PERMISSIONS (NOT "rights" -- please stop calling this a "restoration of rights") transferable?
    Wouldn't the "licenses" involved with this inevitably be *visible* in some form, say, when you're switching from one "authorized" device to another? Can't see how any such 'enforcement key" would be anything other than a string of data associated with the file in question.

    No way to do it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    icon
    Henry Emrich (profile), Jan 5th, 2010 @ 5:53pm

    More epic fail for "faux analog" digital "scarcity":

    Let's assume that the set-top box, home PC, or whatever other "authorized" device you're running it on needs to be able to detect which uses of any given file are 'permissible" (by matching them up to licenses, or some other type of authorization-code.)

    For this to work, it's going to have to "know" (at some combination of the software AND hardware level) the following:

    1. That the file *is* the one associated with a given license-key.

    2. That the license key *DID* actually originate from the "authorized" source. (In other words, it would require some "off-site" -- probably centralized -- repository of "authorized license keys" -- a license-server. Why? If they use a non-infinite set of license-keys, you just run into the same exact scenario as they have nowadays with "pirated" software -- if you have the license and reg info, you bypass the "protection". Think "keygen".)

    (So the first -- and most glaringly obvious -- problem with any attempt to create "digital scarcity", is that you'll ned a unique "authorization key" for every single "legitimate" copy. You also need the ability for a playback device to "ask" the licensing-authority if the license is "legitimate" or not. Licensing server outage = NO copies of the content playable, even if they're "legitimately purchased."

    Anybody remember when Wal-Mart (I think it was) wanted to shut down their attempt at a DRM-"protected" music store? They ended up having to TRAIN THEIR OWN CUSTOMERS how to break/bypass the DRM "protection", so as to not run into people actually noticing that what they'd "bought" was completely dependent on the DRM-key servers continuing to be up and running.

    BTW: Glad to see "Anti-Mike" is back, with his food-related ramblings: first hamburgers, now Kool-aid. Yummy! :)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  
    icon
    Steve R. (profile), Jan 6th, 2010 @ 11:32am

    The Poor Generic MP3 Player

    Recently, I have been looking at getting a new radio and I noticed how many had an "iPod" connection. It dawned on me that Apple has "locked-up" digital access to radios. Sure, some have a regular USB connection, but I don't want to buy-into Apples proprietary system.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    icon
    Steve R. (profile), Jan 6th, 2010 @ 11:39am

    Re: Did You Read The NYT Article?

    In an email exchange, it occurred to me that I "missed" a thought on the lack of analysis in the NYT article. The article talks of making one standard for purposes of portability. Well, all these companies purposely designed their content with proprietary technologies to prevent portability. Now they want to portability under the assertion that they are doing it to help the consumer???? Hogwash.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Save me a cookie
  • Note: A CRLF will be replaced by a break tag (<br>), all other allowable HTML will remain intact
  • Allowed HTML Tags: <b> <i> <a> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <hr> <tt>
Follow Techdirt
A word from our sponsors...
Essential Reading
Techdirt Reading List
Techdirt Insider Chat
A word from our sponsors...
Recent Stories
A word from our sponsors...

Close

Email This