Microsoft Cracks Down On Windows Piracy In China... So Pirating Group Offers Up Ubuntu That Looks Like XP

from the happy-microsoft dept

It's been pointed out before how much Microsoft has benefited from having its operating system and office suites "pirated," in that it helped make Microsoft a de facto standard, that created lock-in and network effects, that helped make Microsoft into the massively successful company it is today. Even Bill Gates has famously said:
"And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."
Except... of course, Microsoft has been pushing hard to "stop" that kind of "piracy" in China, and it may be having an unintended effect. Slashdot points us to the news that a group that had been offering pirated copies of Windows is now offering a copy of Ubuntu Linux, designed to look just like Windows XP. So, congrats, Microsoft, in "stopping" some piracy in China, you may just be driving users to Linux instead.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    identicon
    Freedom, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 12:19pm

    Interesting Trends...

    One of the trends we've seen is now that Microsoft is locking down their products that folks are seriously considering open source and commercial alternatives.

    Sadly, I think initially that locking down software provides a quick revenue boost to companies that use this method and have a popular product. This in turn leads most companies to think that if they just lock it down further than can squeeze the market and get the maximum revenue from it. While this may be true in the short run and good for this quarter type of thing it would seem short sighted at best.

    I think there are some extremely bright folks at Microsoft and they probably believe that it was time for adjustment in IP enforcement in China. In the end, after all it is a balancing act.

    Freedom

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 12:26pm

    It looks rather convincing, how long before a lawsuit?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    identicon
    knight37, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 12:48pm

    Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    This is a non-event. People do not choose one OS or another over how it looks. People choose an OS over what it can actually RUN. Making Ubuntu look like Windows but still unable to run most Windows programs is not going to reduce the demand for actual Windows products, be they pirated or not. As soon as they make it where I can run all my apps and games on Ubuntu I'll switch. Until then, nice try, no cigar.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    identicon
    TDR, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 12:50pm

    Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    Actually, most apps and games CAN run on Ubuntu. Through a little program called Wine. Look it up.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    identicon
    Griper, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:10pm

    Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    As you know wine is an emulator and it can't run all windows apps with out serious tweaking. If Linux is such a great OS and so many tech savvy folks swear by it, why is it so cumbersome. I can't even install drivers without going through a command line. I have to build and compile it myself. Most Linux users, in my opinion are elitist snobs proudly touting their ability to run and espouse their use of Linux.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    identicon
    VX, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:13pm

    This article is not researched at all by anyone anywhere

    Here is a screenshot ISO installed (locale changed to English): http://i50.tinypic.com/2lar9s0.jpg

    As you can see, it does not look at all like windows XP out of the box(it looks like Gnome). I've seen this article posted on like 20 websites and not a single one bothered even checking the single most important fact that the thing looks a damn bit like XP by default. Their website claims "Windows XP operating habits, allowing you to quickly start with Linux" (loose translation), the screenshot on their site is a screenshot of the real Windows XP.

    You could theme this OS to look more like Windows XP just like you can with pretty much any modern Linux Distro. This is not news.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    icon
    Modplan (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    For a start, WINE is not an emulator. In fact, the name WINE stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator.

    The rest of what you said you probably just restated after reading it somewhere else, and there's little real point in addressing it - suffice to say, it gets adressed pretty satisfactorily many times a day.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    icon
    Bubba Gump (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:21pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    Um... have you even TRIED Ubuntu???

    You don't have to do ANYTHING on the command line any more.
    In fact, Ubuntu is so good at this point the only thing keeping me from switching to it completely is that World of Warcraft won't run on it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    icon
    mdmadph (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:22pm

    Isn't this pretty much just Linux Mint? I thought the whole point of the OS was to make it easier for people to adopt Linux when coming from a Windows background.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    identicon
    galvin, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:23pm

    ubuntu linux

    i agree instead of using pirated windows,why not try the ubuntu linux, most of windows application are compatible with ubuntu..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    identicon
    OpticalMatrix, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:26pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    identicon
    AC, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:32pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    I consider myself an intermediate user in so much as I primarily use Windows and can administer my home systems and setup some basic networking stuff for my home (wireless encryption, port forwarding, etc). I got up and running with Ubuntu9.04 on a Toshiba Satellite (dual boot), with sound, in 20 minutes. I didn't have to load a single driver. I even have full use of the touch pad synaptics features. I do almost all of my computing except remoting to work, .net programming and gaming in Ubuntu now. So to you doubters I say: you need to find some new reasons to hate Linux.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    identicon
    Griper, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:33pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    As a matter of fact I tried Ubuntu just last month and had it for all of 1 week. Your right in the fact you don't need the command line if you are happy with what comes with it out of the box. If you try to add or customize it, have the help forum bookmarked because you'll be there a lot.

    And yes, it is an emulator. Even the developers admit it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    identicon
    AC, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:34pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    OOPS CORRECTION

    ...I USED TO primarily use Windows...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    icon
    Hephaestus (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:39pm

    Re: Interesting Trends...

    "This in turn leads most companies to think that if they just lock it down further than can squeeze the market and get the maximum revenue from it. While this may be true in the short run and good for this quarter type of thing it would seem short sighted at best."


    Funny thing, I was thinking the same thing about the way the record labels, movie studios, and certain nations are handling things. People either find cheaper products, feel threatened, want nothing to do with you, complain, or revolt, and it never ends up like the companies or nations plan.

    Its all about a loop of fear, rationalizing, and denial. They fear and say if we do "this thing", what ever this thing is, things will work out. They rationalize even the slightest good news. Then they deny that what they planned didnt work, just long enough to come up with the next "this thing" ... and rinse, lather, repeat ... each time frustration sets in and the planned "this thing" is more extreme.

    Its a feedback loop all information middlemen and IP types are currently going through.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    identicon
    Todd H, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:40pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    Doesn't the elitist snobs comment apply to any OS? There are the snobs for Windows, for MAC, for Linux.... They all sound the same, just like you do.

    Yes, there are a number of items that can be done through the command line on Linux. But that is the same for all of the other OS's. Even the new Win7 has gone back to most of the maintenance items being done through the new powershell command line because, the overhead of writing everything inside a Gui based program is too slow. Microsoft is pushing for all of the software developers to do the same thing. I know that because I just came back from a convention where they were stressing to use the powershell as much as possible for the back end of gui apps.

    But, just like Windows, Linux has a GUI to do almost any task that needs to be done. Yes, a number of drivers do require editing a file or running a command. But that is only due to the developers for that device don't want to take the time and resources to try to package thier driver for the large variety of linux distro's out there.

    That is not an issue caused by the Linux OS, it is caused by the hardware companies that are developing the drivers. With Linux becoming more popular for the standard user, it will be just a matter of time till someone develops a better packaging tool to use that will make it easier for the hardware vendors to pass on drivers to the users.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    icon
    Modplan (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:46pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    No, they don't.

    http://www.winehq.org/myths#slow

    If you want to add to it or customise it, there is the easy to find and obviously labelled Software Centre. Changing theme is a matter of right clicking he desktop > change background, or System > Preferences > Appearance.

    Unless your idea of customisation involves more fundamental problems and tasks like severe driver issues or a completely broken system, then please tell me where you'd need to use the command line to customise and add to Ubuntu, assuming a reasonable range if things covered in "customise and add"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    icon
    Overcast (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:48pm

    Soon as a few decent games are out for Linux that run well, I will be saying Adios to Windows. I'm so tired of M$'s arrogance..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    identicon
    Big Al, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:48pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    "I can't even install drivers without going through a command line"
    Things have moved on since the 1992 version of Red Hat. The last machine I installed Linux on didn't require the command line for anything. Do keep up, dear boy.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    icon
    Overcast (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:48pm

    I mean native too - Wine's ok, but a game patch and you're back to step one many times..

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    icon
    ajgajg1134 (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:50pm

    psh

    They didn't need to kick people off to get them to switch to linux, I switched because vista is so terrible.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    icon
    Overcast (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:52pm

    Things have moved on since the 1992 version of Red Hat. The last machine I installed Linux on didn't require the command line for anything. Do keep up, dear boy.

    Yeah, 98% correct - I did have some issues getting my Radeon to work under Ubuntu properly - but keep in mind, it's because of the crap drivers from AMD/ATI - NOT Ubuntu. The Nvidia drivers work well, from what I hear.

    Windows is not isolated from driver issues either - and you also have to consider, Windows is running about 20 more services than it really needs to.

    I, in fact, use the command line to shut down all that crap before playing games, and system performance jumps way up - extra 10-25% Frame rate, depending on the game.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    icon
    Overcast (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:55pm

    Oh oh, but I did have an idea and I'll post it here.

    I'm going to do this VERY soon.

    Load up Windows XP - as stripped as you can get it to play games - OS, Drivers, DirectX - nothing more. Except one thing.

    VMWare.

    Now load up a client Ubuntu or whatever Linux OS - use it for EVERYTHING but gaming.

    Copy VM's to flash drives and run from there, core 'storage' can be shared out by the host OS and multiple Linux installs can go to the same spot - this helps prevent the 'oddities' that can happen on RARE occasion with Linux directly accessing Windows file systems.

    Cool, aye?

    Windows, the host OS, is stripped - I'm even going to block internet access as much as possible from the host OS. Linux does all the rest - viruses - be gone.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    identicon
    interval, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:57pm

    Re:

    Forget wine, big waste of time. VirtualBox is what you want.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    identicon
    interval, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:57pm

    Big deal, its still not going to run PE format binary images; so you still have to apt-get VirtualBox and host XP to run them. So its Ubuntu looking like XP. I don't see why this is a big deal.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    identicon
    interval, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 1:58pm

    Re: ubuntu linux

    "...most of windows application are compatible with ubuntu..."

    Yeah? That's interesting. How so?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    identicon
    interval, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:02pm

    Re:

    Yeah, you need to dip into a shell occasionally. Your mileage may vary depending on distro. Especially if you want to install an application that's not in a standard repository. You'll need to add a key to a text file and invoke yum or apt-get or (name your poison) and you usually can't do EVERY bit of that using gui tools. At least I haven't seen a distro that has a gui for every step of repository maint/app installation.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    identicon
    interval, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:03pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    "And yes, it is an emulator."

    What is?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    icon
    Alan Gerow (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:35pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    "I can't even install drivers without going through a command line. I have to build and compile it myself."

    I tried Ubuntu over a year ago, and I was able to install dozens of drivers for hardware not designed to work with Linux (video cards & wifi cards) without having to build or compile anything. And the only reason I sometimes went to through the command line is because it's quicker than a GUI (and I could copy & paste instructions instead of following menu trees & image-based directions).

    If you had to build and compile anything, then you were doing it wrong. You should only need to compile anything if you are customizing Linux. I've used 4 different distros and have never had to compile a thing unless I was installing a very obscure program.

    Installing programs & drivers is actually significantly easier in Ubuntu than Windows, because you can install almost any application or driver directly from within Linux without having to go outside and do it manually. All installation, builds, compiles, downloads dependencies, and customization and initialization is handled by the OS itself. It actually does more of the work for you than Windows does.

    I've installed a robust OS environment that handles all audio/video files, internet surfing, office productivity, and a dozen games ... without ever having to download a file directly. It's all handled within Ubuntu's software repository. And without me having to manually build or compile a single thing.

    And WINE ... is not an emulator. WINE is an implementation of the Windows API calls, but it doesn't emulate Windows. It's an application layer that redirects or translates API calls. Not to mention, traditionally you emulate HARDWARE. So, you wouldn't have a Windows emulator, but you'd have an x86 emulator that you would install Windows in to. Since WINE is not an emulator, a copy of Windows is not necessary.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    identicon
    The Anti-Mike, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:37pm

    Pirated Windows and Virus Issues

    One of the biggest issues for Microsoft over the last few years has been the issue of viruses. Apple has made hay pushing the idea that Windows is unstable and gets plenty of viruses. While patched versions of windows XP plus anti-virus software is pretty effective, one of the leading causes of infections are other infected machines. those infected machines are used to send mail and links to websites that infect other machines, they are used as parts of botnets to find openings in servers to exploit, inserting code that infects visitor's machines, etc.

    When Microsoft went to the genuine advantage program, they created a gap. I suspect that part of their plan was to leave pirated copies at a level where they became less and less stable and unusable because of virus attacks. Instead, all they have done is create their own worst ememy, a widespread network of easily infected machines.

    The conficker virus's infection rate was signficantly higher in Asia than any other part of the world, mostly due to widespread unpatched pirated version of windows being used. The infection rate in the US was signficantly lower.

    I think Microsoft's moves are in part of stem the tide of infections from unpatched machines. On that basis, people moving to Ubuntu or other OSes isn't exactly bad.

    Ubuntu is really not ready for prime time. Overcast, your idea is nice, but entirely unworkable for the masses. This isn't 1989 here, people want a computer they turn on and it works, not something they have to spend half their life hacking on to try to get it to run something.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    identicon
    brandon, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:38pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    i concur, almost every linux nut i know is a command line junky and they don't seam to grasp that if they want linux to be the layperson's OS they have to make these things called buttons that do stuff when you click on them with another thing called the pointer

    heck most of them that i know don't use the gui at all, as soon as the os opens they shortcut to the terminal.

    android seams to be getting it right though, but i'm not holding my breath

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    icon
    Alan Gerow (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:41pm

    Re: Re: ubuntu linux

    Using WINE.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    icon
    Alan Gerow (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:42pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    That's because people can usually do more, faster with the command line.

    Linux & Ubuntu can be completely administered and used without ever touching the command line. Just that GUIs are easier to use, not faster.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:44pm

    Re:

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    icon
    Alan Gerow (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:46pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    It occurs to me that you have WINE and VMWare confused.

    WINE:
    Requires no copy of Windows, installs applications directly into Linux so that they can be run as native Linux applications.

    VMWare:
    An x86 emulator that requires the user to install a copy of Windows (or another OS) onto its virtual machine where all applications must be run within the OS installed within VMWare.

    Maybe demonstrating the differences there would clear it up? WINE allows Windows applications to run as native Linux applications ... VMWare and emulators do not, requiring they be launched first and then the applications are run through them separately.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    identicon
    Robert Hedges, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 2:54pm

    Pirated Software

    Your pirated mind is not a metaphor. You can somehow get a better software from someone who knows someone....
    but your psychology is so adaptive that moms coma added to the matrix conditioning has you wasting your life.
    You have been pirated. There is a reference, a real heading to be found, but most people are either afraid, heavily rationalizing, or just too lazy to gain profound clarity (and) all new friends and "family".

    Just make the leap! Eagles that have never flown leave the nest every spring.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 3:04pm

    Re: Interesting Trends...

    If its made by man it can be reversed engineered by man, end of story you can't stop the inevitable.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 3:08pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    I got WoW to run perfectly using its -opengl flag.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 3:19pm

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    Wine is not an emulator. It is, in short, a re-implementation of Windows (to be a bit more precise, it is a translator from Windows APIs to Linux APIs). As such, it is just as fast as the real thing.

    It is not cumbersome, and it is not only for tech savvy folks. My grandma uses it (!) and even says she prefers it to Windows 7. You don't need the command line -- everything can be done through the GUI these days (including installing drivers).

    Did you just call my grandma an elitist snob??

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    icon
    nasch (profile), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 3:19pm

    Re: This article is not researched at all by anyone anywhere

    As you can see, it does not look at all like windows XP out of the box(it looks like Gnome).

    That looks more like XP to me than Gnome.
    Windows XP
    Gnome
    YLMF OS (new Chinese thingy)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    identicon
    interval, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 3:49pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    Wine sux. You need to be a wine expert to tweak the ini (or what ever its called) for every windows app you want to run, one global setting was unheard of in my experience; EVERYTHING needed a tweak or a particular setting I had to spend hours finding; it finally got to be too much and I removed it. And the apps I did get going I didn't find to be much snappier then running on a vm. Infact, they were so unstable that gave me a second good reason to dump wine.

    I read a complain earlier that with their vm they had to have windows. Well, YEAH. You need a copy of windows (?).

    I use virtual box and I don't have these wine-specific tweak issues. I rarely use windows, but when I do, its there when I need it. No hassles.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
    identicon
    bob, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 3:57pm

    Ummm This Is The Next Decade

    Bill Gates and Microsoft only did what he said they would do and it is the "Next Decade"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    identicon
    Chris, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 4:54pm

    lmao

    Here's where an ounce of courage is worth more than a pinch of reason...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    identicon
    nifty, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 5:27pm

    command line

    Until I can give the machine to my 82 year old grandfather to use to open email and view the files, sound, video without him having to have me come over and fiddle with it then linux is not a user friendly OS. I tried to give him an emachine netbook and he couldnt view an avi or a quicktime video sent to him on email. I had to go over and install VLC...an hour later he was up and running..then couldnt open a document. I dont think the linux crowd understands that the majority of people dont want to use a command line...that is so 1983. They want to click and play and get on with their lives which doesnt include constantly fiddling with their OS. I like to fiddle but am tired of trying to explain to my totally linux buddies that the average person has an aversion to learning a bunch of commands in order to get through a normal pc session.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    identicon
    Chris, Dec 29th, 2009 @ 5:46pm

    Good 'ole Gramps

    I have absolutely no problem I introducing new technology to the elderly whether or not I am armed with scooby snacks. It is why I once considered a career as an anchorperson, which also ties in with certain climatary interests. Ultimately we are all just in this for our livelihood and it is difficult to argue against a person being adverse to conditions that would prove contrary to that goal.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    :), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 9:23pm

    Linux BFF!

    Ok, ok! the title is gay!

    Now please stop the WINE is not an emulator.
    It is an emulator!, and app level emulator, it does translate windows API calls to linux API calls so it is definitely a emulator. It is not however an full machine emulator like Qemu, VirtualBox, VMware, XEN and others. Other synonymous word is simulator they all mean the same thing.

    LINUX!

    I love the penguin.
    Since I switched(when Vista came out) I didn't have much trouble, granted for many I would be called an expert.

    I no longer have to keep worrying about the windows registry the mother of all evils, I no longer use the hex-editor that much.

    I can use the fedora kickstart to make a personalized installation that will come with everything, that is not easy on windows.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstart_%28Linux%29

    I can make a liveUSB in minutes anywhere with a laptop custom build.

    Repositories comes with thousands of free software. I was just playing ultimastunts :)

    Seriously I was a bit affraid of making the switch but when I saw what windows Vista was I just had to try something and I'm glad I did.

    Wow, I can make any image to be an icon in windows you need to get some third party program to make an ICO file and to be truthfully I do spend a lot less time in forums searching for answers then I did with windows.

    I really don't understand that fear.

    Want to change the configurations of the inner working of the network in linux that is easy in windows you would have to disassemble the DLL and patch it with God knows what others have put out there.

    Linux seems cumbersome but is a lot more transparent then windows the one thing I do miss is the MSN help forum, that is an incredible piece of work.

    I never saw a problem not listed there even if it was to say there was no solution.

    Now for the thing in China.

    Microsoft already knows this, they have enforced copyright before and crack down on it and they saw something magic happening.

    Others tools saw a decline in sales, with people not being able to use a pirated copy they also switched apps, so Microsoft in its infinite windows started to sell XP for $2 dollars and that is at a loss(or is it?).

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    identicon
    :), Dec 29th, 2009 @ 9:31pm

    Linux BFF!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_usb_creator

    Microsoft wouldn't dream of doing this.

    That is why to create a live windows CD you have to go to a extensive marathon of steps to accomplish this simple task.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2009 @ 2:41am

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    Wow, if you found Wine hard to set up, it seems like you really suck at this computing thing.

    The fact is, it's 90% there. It can only get better with time.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 30th, 2009 @ 2:56am

    Re: Linux BFF!

    "Now please stop the WINE is not an emulator.
    It is an emulator!, and app level emulator, it does translate windows API calls to linux API calls so it is definitely a emulator. It is not however an full machine emulator like Qemu, VirtualBox, VMware, XEN and others. Other synonymous word is simulator they all mean the same thing."

    Meh. Semantics.

    It's a compatibility layer. The overhead is so small as to be negligible (literally a few indirections; a procedure call for every trap, and traps are as infrequent as possible in real programs because they are slow by nature), as opposed to a "full machine" emulator as you call it. The machine code being executed is the same, so execution speed is more or less the same as on Windows.

    Qemu is the only full machine emulator there. The rest are virtualisation layers -- emulating just a few I/O components and such. Again, the overhead is mostly negligible, as the real work is done by native code.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    identicon
    :), Dec 30th, 2009 @ 5:23am

    Re: Re: Linux BFF!

    Meh, Semantics.

    "Wine is not just an emulator" would be a more correct name. Thinking of Wine as just an emulator is really forgetting about the other things it is. Wine's "emulator" is really just a binary loader that allows Windows applications to interface with the Wine API replacement.


    Source:
    http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#head-c9e6502ad636315e905d07f7e44594757a6738e3

    Qemu is the only full machine emulator there. The rest are virtualisation layers -- emulating just a few I/O components and such. Again, the overhead is mostly negligible, as the real work is done by native code.


    You got me there, you are right they emulate just part of the hardware still a compatibility layer is still an emulation layer. Well at least for me that.

    The FreeBSD refer to "compatibility layers"(emulation layers) as emulation.
    http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/linux-emulation/freebsd-emulation.html

    I think they(the guys from Wine) used the "Wine Is Not an Emulator" because they didn't wont to be confused with CPU emulation but technically Wine is a emulation layer and thus a emulator.
    http://wiki.winehq.org/Debunking_Wine_Myths#head-a97295d7364a2a87f5769eeff9b5105b61b85761

    But I think they are deluding themselves. In the end Wine emulates the windows DLLs to function and is an emulator

    An emulator in computer sciences duplicates (provides an emulation of) the functions of one system using a different system, so that the second system behaves like (and appears to be) the first system. This focus on exact reproduction of external behavior is in contrast to some other forms of computer simulation, which can concern an abstract model of the system being simulated.


    Quote source:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator

    3. Computers.
    a. to imitate (a particular computer system) by using a software system, often including a microprogram or another computer that enables it to do the same work, run the same programs, etc., as the first.
    b. to replace (software) with hardware to perform the same task.


    Quote source:
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/emulator?jss=0

    Still think that Wine is not an emulator?
    Fine I will not argue.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    identicon
    David, Dec 30th, 2009 @ 9:47am

    Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    There are som many lies in that comment I barely know where to start. First off WINE is not en emulator, hence the name, look it up. I have never had to compile a driver in all my years using Linux and its only gotten more friendly recently. In any event driver issue are created by Vendors. Most of the current distros never require a user to drop to a command line. Try USING it before commenting. The one coming off as elitist isn't a Linux user in your post.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    icon
    MrBeck (profile), Dec 30th, 2009 @ 12:02pm

    Why WINE is not an "emulator" or why Win7 is

    Firstly, I fall into the WINE is not an emulator since it doesn't actually emulate a machine only an API layer. But for those who do consider this emulation I would like to point out the following, WinNT3 and 3.5 contained the first Win32 API systems available and by the logic that makes WINE an emulator, all Windows systems since NT 3.5 are emulations of these OS version too.

    There was a time before the amateurs took over that words used in computing had precise meanings as they do in other sciences. Unfortunately that no longer applies.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    identicon
    interval, Dec 30th, 2009 @ 2:45pm

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not Going to Reduce Piracy of Real Windows

    Your fascinating and thoroughly engaging opinion aside, after my experience with it, and whatever your opinion, I do know what I'm doing in this field. I can't believe you found wine to be some kind of effortless thrill. I found to be one big hassle after every time I tried to use it, which were many. You may be a wine expert, or you simlpy got lucky, I don't know. But I simply don't believe you had a turn key experience. Not a chance.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Save me a cookie
  • Note: A CRLF will be replaced by a break tag (<br>), all other allowable HTML will remain intact
  • Allowed HTML Tags: <b> <i> <a> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <hr> <tt>
Follow Techdirt
A word from our sponsors...
Essential Reading
Techdirt Reading List
Techdirt Insider Chat
A word from our sponsors...
Recent Stories
A word from our sponsors...

Close

Email This