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1.  

   Now I wonder...

   

   Headbhang (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 3:52am

   
   

   Would Alejandro Fernández have seen ANY of the royalties generated by the album if he'd allowed the distribution to go on?
   
   Big labels. Fucking hypocrites.

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2.  

   

   Sheinen, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 5:00am

   
   

   The real issue here is the likelyhood that Sony will get their way, because the corporations invariably fucking do!
   
   They have big money which they use to bully and beat the rest of the world into giving them more money.
   
   Welcome to Planet Earth!

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3.  

   Re: Now I wonder...

   

   Liquid, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 5:18am

   
   

   One would think he would, but that would be a pipedream at best. To think that someone would actually get paid for work they did after they left a label is ludacris. Any label or buisness would see that as a 100% profit, because the original artist is no longer employed by them. Just another way for these high end record execs to live above their means. Then again everyone in this country live out side their means every day... thats why you see the dude working at McDonalds driving around an a Escalade, and living in a 1/4 to 1/2 a milltion dollar home. Capitolism isn't it wonderful.

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4.  

   Re: Re: Now I wonder...

   

   Sheet Dawg, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 5:42am

   
   

   "Then again everyone in this country live out side their means every day..."
   
   Assumptive truth ... that is the real issue.
   
   btw ... I see proper English is a bit of a challenge.

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5.  

   Haha Sony

   

   Killer_Tofu (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 5:53am

   
   

   Karma's a bitch.
   You guys so have this and so much more coming to you.

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6.  

   It's a contract dispute, then?

   

   SteveD (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 5:59am

   
   

   Not to get short with Mike, but is there really much of interest to this story?
   
   That two parties that undertake a contract together want different things is part of a contracts purpose. That afterwards the two parties fight over how the resulting assets are split is hardly unusual.
   
   A label and an artist having 'unaligned interests' should be obvious; so do many people who enter into contracts. It doesn't mean there is anything sinister or unusual to it.

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7.  

   payback's a bitch

   

   Avatar28 (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 6:03am

   
   

   While normally I would consider having the police raid somebody's offices over a copyright dispute to be a bit over the top, how many times have we criticized RIAA et al for similar tactics, in this case I can't help but think that there's a certain amount of justice in it. Now if only we could get that happening more often maybe we could teach them a lesson.

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8.  

   Sony vs. Joel Tenenbaum

   

   maclizard (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 6:06am

   
   

   Hmm, lets see here. Based on these numbers it looks like Sony should be out between 1 and 4 billion dollars.

   I wonder if 80k per song is still reasonable.

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9.  

   Re: Now I wonder...

   

   mike allen (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 6:09am

   
   

   What makes you think he got paid when he was with Sony forget after he left.
   They no different to the other major labels they would screw him down to a contract that would mean they got the royalties.

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10.  

    Re: Re: Now I wonder...

    

    Common Sense, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 6:30am

    
    

    Well, to be honest, if you see a dude working at McDonald's, and he's driving an Escalade and living in a half million dollar house...McDonald's isn't where he gets most of his money. (Hint: He probably sells lots of drugs)

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11.  

    Re:

    

    Ben Zayb, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 6:34am

    
    

    You forget that Alejandro moved to Universal, which has interests in his music too. They probably won't allow Sony to bribe its way out of this.
    
    Regardless, it's nice to hear about one of the MAFIAA get raided for a change!

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12.  

    Re: It's a contract dispute, then?

    

    fishbane, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 6:41am

    
    

    I can't speak for others, but if there's interest in labels, labels' use of artists as human shields in policy disputes, artists' complaints about labels, the changing market for both, then a datapoint-story seems like a perfectly reasonable thing about which to run a a short blog post.
    
    Or to look at it differently, this will be the 12th comment on an apparently uninteresting-to-SteveD story, to which SteveD also commented, unless someone slides one in before I finish typing this.
    
    Also, meta.

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13.  

    Re: It's a contract dispute, then?

    

    Dark Helmet (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 6:45am

    
    

    Good to be back from my bout with swine flu given to me by government agents attempting to kill me. Anyway:
    
    "Not to get short with Mike, but is there really much of interest to this story?"
    
    Yes. Labels say they want to help artists. Labels hurt artists. Ergo, labels lie. We can then assume they are also lying about other stuff, like, oh I don't know, every statistic they talk about.

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14.  

    Re: It's a contract dispute, then?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 6:52am

    
    

    Mike blogs about copyright. Anything related to copyright, the RIAA, and artist rights piques his interest. Really, how surprising is it that you see another post about copyright, the RIAA, and artist rights?

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15.  

    

    Flyfish, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 6:59am

    
    

    I suspect that Alejandro Fernández is in the wrong. Typical contract states the right to release anything recorded while under contract. People familiar with the industry would understand this. As I recall ZZ Top had a dispute with London Records and spent a couple years in Europe, not playing together and not recording anything.
    
    It might suck, but that's a standard contract, but we wouldn't want anything like contract law to get in Mike's way as he rails against a business model he finds obsolete.

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16.  

    Re:

    

    Anonymous Coward, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 7:09am

    
    

    You seem to have missed the point. This isn't an argument about the terms or legality of the contract. It is an illustration that record labels act for their own benefit and not for the benefit of the artist they represent (or in this case formerly represented).

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17.  

    Re:

    

    Anonymous Coward, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 7:16am

    
    

    It wouldn't surprise me if Sony did get its way and it would be just another example of the government playing corporate favoritism. If a regular person did something like this it would be breach of contract, copyright infringement, and every other violation you can imagine and the fine would exceed our GDP. But when a big corporation does it the consequences would turn out to be a slap on the wrist if they even get punished at all.

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18.  

    :=/

    

    NullOp, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 7:20am

    
    

    "Artists best interest", nobody from the record industry really said that did they? That is beyond laughable. It is akin to the Catholic church stating of the thousands they killed in the Inquisition, "We had their best interests in mind as we lit the fire or broke them on the rack."

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19.  

    

    Overcast (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 7:28am

    
    

    the police in Mexico raid Sony Music's offices and confiscate the CDs
    
    hahah, what comes around goes around.

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20.  

    HIs contract

    

    Charlie Dahan, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 7:58am

    
    

    Though I am so pro-artist, I can assure you that the label has a contract with him that says they have the right to all material he recorded during that time and received an advance and some kind of royalty structure.
    
    It sucks, but no one made him sign that contract and he should do the right thing and honor his contract, just as the label should (which I am sure they have violated the terms in some way(s)).

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21.  

    Re:

    

    Anonymous Coward, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 8:21am

    
    

    I suspect that Alejandro Fernández is in the wrong.
    
    I suspect you're talking out of your ass.

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22.  

    Re: Re:

    

    Anonymous Coward, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 9:02am

    
    

    What might end up happening is that the initial court might give a huge fine just to shut us up but then the appellate court might lower the fine to a slap in the wrist after the commotion has died down, something that would never happen to an average Joe Blow of course if he made a similar mistake.

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23.  

    Re: HIs contract

    

    Luci, Sep 9th, 2009 @ 9:38am

    
    

    Let's get one thing out, first: Unless you have a copy of the contract available to you, you cannot assure us of anything.
    
    We have to wait for more information on this before we can really say one way or the other. Sony has says they have rights to the music. The artist's lawyer states that isn't in the previous contract. Up to the courts at this point.

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24.  

    Re:

    

    Mike Masnick (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 10:23am

    
    

    It might suck, but that's a standard contract, but we wouldn't want anything like contract law to get in Mike's way as he rails against a business model he finds obsolete.
    
    I thought I was pretty clear in the post that I believe this is a contract dispute.
    
    You act as if I ignored that, when I did not (though, many of the other stories about this topic did ignore it).
    
    But, the point that I was making -- which I thought was more interesting -- is that it shows how the interests of the labels and the artists often diverge. Are you denying that, or are you just trying do distract by trying to make this about something that I didn't say?

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25.  

    Re: HIs contract

    

    Matt (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 11:14am

    
    

    If you are right that Sony violated the contract, then there was no further contract. A prior breach by one party excuses future performance by the other. If, for instance, Sony failed to pay royalties the artist was owed then the artist could refuse to permit copying and distribution of his copyrighted works.
    
    To me, the interesting question is who owns the copyright in these songs. If they were created as works made for hire, then Sony does. If they were created as works for the artist subject to a prior assignment to Sony, then a whole new family of issues arises. For instance, if the contract is governed by California contract law or is enforceable in the federal courts located in California, prior assignments may themselves be unenforceable.
    
    In other words, notwithstanding any contract it seems possible to me that the artist is on solid ground. It will depend on a lot of facts that the story does not reveal.

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26.  

    Re: Re:

    

    SteveD (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 4:34pm

    
    

    "But, the point that I was making -- which I thought was more interesting -- is that it shows how the interests of the labels and the artists often diverge."
    
    My problem with this is I disagree on it being interesting; it almost seems like stating the obvious. Such interests can diverge just as they do in every form of business contract.
    
    But perhaps this isn't what really bugs me. I think that might be the title, and a comment-threat full of people gloating over the 'evil record companies'.
    
    What has Techdirt become?

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27.  

    Re: Re: Re:

    

    Mike Masnick (profile), Sep 9th, 2009 @ 10:33pm

    
    

    My problem with this is I disagree on it being interesting; it almost seems like stating the obvious. Such interests can diverge just as they do in every form of business contract.
    
    Indeed. But it highlights the separation here. The issue is that the labels often claim that they represent artists. I think it's worth reminding people that's not true.

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28.  

    THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME SONY HAVE RIPPED OFF AN ARTIST!

    

    Thomas Rand, Sep 10th, 2009 @ 3:41am

    
    

    firstly i want to make it clear I am just a consumer/pirate/fan
    
    ok here is the link to the full story:
    http://www.renegaderhythms.com/home.html?main=http://www.renegaderhythms.com/articles/ur/son y_correspondence.html#121099
    
    i have no doubt that this will continue in the future and regardless of who they do this to they will always try to force themselves onto any thing they think will make money
    
    BOYCOTT THE BIG BUSINESS
    ALL MUSICIANS NEED TO GO INDEPENDENT
    NEW TECHNOLOGY WILL NEVER DIE NOR WILL IT BOW DOWN TO CORPORATE PRESSURE
    FILE SHARERS ARE NOT THIEVES
    
    MIDDLE FINGER UP TO THEM ALL

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29.  

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    

    SteveD (profile), Sep 10th, 2009 @ 9:53am

    
    

    I will concede that.

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