Diebold/Premier Actually Admits Its Machines Are Faulty! And That It Lied About Antivirus Software...

from the wonders-never-cease dept

Consider me to be in a state of shock. For nearly half a decade Diebold has always responded in the identical way to every single report of a problem or security vulnerability with its e-voting machines: attacking those who pointed out the problem and claiming it really wasn't a problem at all. This has happened time and time again that I'm not even sure how to react when the company (renamed Premier to get away from the Diebold name stigma) has finally admitted that its machines have a flaw that drops votes. Oops. It's warning 34 states that use the machines of the problem which was highlighted in the lawsuit Ohio filed against Premiere/Diebold. Not only that, but it's admitting the flaw in the software has been in the software for the past decade.

So, uh, why was the company blaming anti-virus software just a couple months ago?

It should also make us question Premier/Diebold's longstanding claim that independent outsiders should not be allowed to inspect its machines for problems. Of course, Diebold execs are already downplaying all of this, claiming that they were "confident" that this hadn't actually impacted any elections, though they offer no proof of that. The company's president admits he's "distressed" that they were wrong in their previous analysis, but he fails to explain why the company is so against letting outsides inspect the machines to avoid such flaws. In the meantime, the company insists that the problem will be patched in time for the November election, and I'm sure we're all confident that there won't be any other problems with their machines, right?


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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 11:14am

    I'm calling it right now.

    51% Mccain, 49% Obama.


    then I'll wonder if the cell phone video from the post election closed-door senate hearing where the guy says he was paid to write a program to flip an election 51% 49% is legit.

    this is way too fishy for the basis on which our government stands, IMHO.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 11:31am

      Re:

      I wonder where Obama's lead went. Apparently, Obama's team is too.

      Maybe the media wants the populous to think it's neck-and-neck race- this has the potential to make good TV ratings in the short term, and opportunities for recounts later on.

       

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      Eric, Aug 24th, 2008 @ 4:15pm

      Re:

      If that happens, I'm leaving.

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 11:16am

    Ive often wondered . . .

    "Diebold execs are already downplaying all of this, claiming that they were "confident" that this hadn't actually impacted any elections"


    Considering the unbelievable incompetence combined with their penchant for lying, secrecy and the inability to face any criticism, make me wonder why none of Diebold’s executive leadership were appointed to important positions by the Bush Administration.

     

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      John Doe, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 11:20am

      Re: Ive often wondered . . .

      Why would you wonder that, it was a paper ballot devised by Democrats that cost Gore the election. :>)

       

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        Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:31pm

        Re: Re: Ive often wondered . . .

        Umm Ohio in 2004? Diebold machines? Exit polls said Kerry won? Mathematically impossible voting data with no logs... Owner of diebold "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

        Do you remember some of this?

         

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        Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 9:25pm

        Re: Re: Ive often wondered . . .

        "Why would you wonder that, it was a paper ballot devised by Democrats that cost Gore the election. :>)"

        Diebold is just automating the process.

         

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        Russ Kyle, Aug 24th, 2008 @ 11:04am

        Re: Re: Ive often wondered . . .

        No it wasn't it was
        1. Republican caging lists denying a LOT of people their legitimate right to vote.

        2. Republican election officials (who were willing to cheat by changing vote totals after hours once the reporters were gone.)

        &
        3. The Supreme Court overriding a ruling that should have been left to the Florida State Supreme court that cost Gore. Telling us that time was of the essence; that we could not afford to wait a few days for the recount.

         

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        Anonymous Coward, Aug 24th, 2008 @ 3:26pm

        Re: Re: Ive often wondered . . .

        No, it was the bullshit, dubiously explained switchout of paper stock used by the manufacturer that caused that, not the design spec approved(which worked dandy 'til right before the 2k elections). Shit even Dan Rather knows this, wake up.

         

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      easily amused, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 1:32pm

      Re: Ive often wondered . . .

      you win sir...

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 11:34am

    "Why would you wonder that, it was a paper ballot devised by Democrats that cost Gore the election. :>)"


    I think you missed the point (seems to be a common problem for Bush supporters)? It seems to me that the incompetence displayed by the executives at Diebold (somehow they can’t get a computer to count?) makes them perfect candidates as Bush appointees (since incompetence seems to be their top criteria). I wasn’t saying anything about costing anyone an election? Are you using those "cut and paste comebacks" from McCain’s website (aka sheep bites), because I think you used the wrong one here?

     

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      hegemon13, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 11:41am

      Re:

      It could be argued that your remarks are just as "cut-and-paste" since there is no indication from John Doe that he is a Bush or McCain supporter. Poking fun at a Democratic action does not make one a Bush supporter. In fact, your with-us-or-against-us attitude is far more reminiscent of the Bush administration than anything John Doe said.

      Personally, I like to poke fun at anyone who allows a party platform to do their thinking for them.

       

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        John Doe, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 11:45am

        Re: Re:

        Good point. Actually I am more of a Republican than Democrat, but would love to see a right leaning middle party. The Republicans would give the country to big business and the Democrats would give the country to the lazy. We need something in between; maybe of the people, by the people, FOR the people?

         

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          mobiGeek, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 1:44pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Out of curiosity, which part of "right" would you want this middle party leaning?

           

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          Anonymous Coward, Aug 24th, 2008 @ 2:44pm

          Re: Re: Re:

          Capitalism inherently states "of the people, by the people, for the corporate CEOs."

          If you're talking of the people, by the people, for the people - it's called socialism. Fantastic new concept, works wonders in other countries; check it out.

           

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        Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:22pm

        Re: Re:

        "It could be argued that your remarks are just as "cut-and-paste" since there is no indication from John Doe that he is a Bush or McCain supporter."

        Your criticism of my assuming his support for Bush is fair enough I think. However, you seemed to totally miss the point about "cut and paste" responses. His post was out of place in response to my comment (read it, it makes no sense in the context it’s used). He used the often cited standard Republican “deflect” to questions of Diebolds complicity in election shenanigans in Ohio. It’s the standard "sheep bite" about democrat derived ballots in Florida. The problem with his use of this particular "cut and paste" come back here though, was I made no statement about any Diebold election shenanigans, so it made no sense. Why I felt his post might be a "sheep bite" was not that I didn’t like its content, but that it simply made no sense in the context it was used.

         

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      John Doe, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 11:42am

      Re:

      I guess I did miss your point. Usually when libs cry about elections it is due to Gore losing. Speaking of incompetent, how about the Dems own candidate election process? Maybe when they get their act together they can complain about the national system? Then they can complain about Republicans too.

       

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        Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:32pm

        Re: Re:

        "I guess I did miss your point. Usually when libs cry about elections it is due to Gore losing. Speaking of incompetent, how about the Dems own candidate election process? Maybe when they get their act together they can complain about the national system? Then they can complain about Republicans too."

        Thank you, its not often in political forum discussions that anyone will admit to being wrong about anything. What you say about Florida may be true, but Im not a "lib", just an American. Im also not a Democrat (I live in a state that respects privacy in party affiliation), however I dont know exactly what is wrong with thier nomination system? Except for having a few more super delegates and less "winner take all" primaries they both do it pretty much the same way?

         

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 11:42am

    No, the real question is why we are letting that company continue to be used. I say scrap that entire company.

     

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    just_a_guy, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:07pm

    DOES NOT MATTER: Popular vote does not win the election

    unless they change the law, the electoral college votes count to win the presidency, not the popular vote, so none of this _actually_ matters. (too bad...)

     

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      Brian, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 1:39pm

      Re: DOES NOT MATTER: Popular vote does not win the election

      The Electoral College is PRECISELY why this MATTERS SO MUCH.

      First, the EC is in the Constitution, and thus would require a bit more than a 'law change' to undo.

      Second, the President is chosen by the Electoral College which is comprised of Electors chosen by each state as they see fit. The number of Electors per state is determined by population plus two (# of Representatives + # of Senators).

      Every method to choose those Electors entails a popular vote of the population at one (or many) stages of the process.

      So, one need only manipulate the outcomes in a few states to swing an entire Presidential election. In the past, manipulating an election required the involvement of many complicit people (i.e. well funded large conspiracy). With electronic voting, it's conceivable that a single well-placed agent can fix an election in such a way that might be impossible to detect, much less prove.

      Back to pen and paper. It's the only way. Stakes are way way too high.

       

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    John Doe ][, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:14pm

    John Doe... "maybe of the people, by the people, FOR the people" is crazy talk.
    The US has always been about money and the rich.

    The free-Slavery movement was supported by North because it cost too much to house a slave - it was cheaper to given slaves freedom and then charge them rent! In the South it was cheaper to have slave as the housing cost (due mainly to heating cost) was way lower. Lucky for us the economic thing to do was the right thing to do.

    The rich get richer and hire marketing and PR people to make sell us on it.

     

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    6fingeredjake, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:16pm

    What Amazing Timing!

    I can't help but wonder why they chose just over 2 months before one of the most important elections in our nations history to finally own up to one of the problems with their machines?

    Could it be so that the media will ask fewer questions following the election? I think so. I can already here the post-election press room discussion: "We aren't going with another Diebold story, they admitted they had a problem and corrected it, There's no story there... what's Paris Hilton up to?"

     

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      John Doe, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:17pm

      Re: What Amazing Timing!

      One of the most important elections in our nations history? How so?

       

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        6fingeredjake, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:28pm

        Re: Re: What Amazing Timing!

        We are in a recession that has only just begun, our relationship with Russia is at a critical breaking point, we are stuck in a war that cost us $100s of billions of dollars a year and we can never "win," we have no comprehensive energy plan, our education system is a joke, our healthcare system is one of the most inefficient and costliest in the world, our social security system is faced with almost certain collapse within 30 years, and our liberties are being eroded on an almost daily basis by executive, legislative, and judicial branches that are creating and enforcing policy based on the politics of fear...

        Whoever the next president is, has an opportunity to change some or all of that, so IMO it is one of the most important elections ever.

         

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          mobiGeek, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 1:50pm

          Re: Re: Re: What Amazing Timing!

          Based on all of your points, I'd say that the country is mostly on par with other historical times.

          In fact, I'd argue that the late 60s to early 70s had it worse than today...not by much, but worse.

           

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          AJ, Aug 25th, 2008 @ 6:15am

          Re: Re: Re: What Amazing Timing!

          "War that cost us $100s of billions of dollars"... thanks. We need to stop this standing up for people who cannot stand for themselves and go back to letting the Butcher of Baghdad feed them into plastic shredders. Our money is much too important to fight against evil!!

          "..education system is a joke"... why, how DARE you criticize the wonderful state controlled education system. Next thing you'll be saying is its the Teacher's union fault. Mind control by the liberal left is a wonderful thing!

          "..no comprehensive energy plan"... yes, we most certainly do. We have monopolies selling us oil (OPEC comprised of entire nations taking money from us) yet we pursue the 5% of the oil provided by Exxon and the like calling for confiscating their businesses (nationalizing the oil industry), or taking any profits they make (about 5%) while the government rakes in about 15% in taxes. Yes, punish the job providers, the oil producers and the risk takers. We're MUCH better off having the same people who gave us FEMA, the Corps of Engineers and the state sponsored educational system running the oil industry too! That's a GREAT strategy!

          "..healthcare system is on the most inefficient and costliest in the world"... Right again. What a terrible system where people flock here from all the better medical systems, like England and Canada, to get our overpriced, inefficient and terrible healthcare. Again, we need the same people who gave us FEMA, etc. to manager our healthcare. Ask anyone in socialist Europe which system they'd rather have!

          "..social security"... it has always been the responsibility of the gub'ment to make you save for your retirement. And, if you do save, they double and triple tax you on it, and then don't pay you back what you put in. You can't even invest what you put in in what you choose to invest. Rather, we have them invest it for us at an average 2% return. Yes, the lifestyle you deserve in your retirement (if you count on social security instead of self reliance) will be what you deserve.

          "..politics of fear"... great way to close. Read your post. Its all about you trying to instill fear. You offer no solutions. You deserve what you will get.

           

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            Anonymous Coward, Aug 25th, 2008 @ 8:43am

            Re: Re: Re: Re: What Amazing Timing!

            "We need to stop this standing up for people who cannot stand for themselves and go back to letting the Butcher of Baghdad feed them into plastic shredders. Our money is much too important to fight against evil!!"


            Yes Hussien was a nasty guy who ran a nasty regime. This was true in the 80’s when Ronal Reagan called him “one of our closest Arab allies” and still true when Donald Rumsfeld was lobbying congress to get biological weapons to him. The issue is not whether Saddam was a nasty criminal, he certainly was (even back when conservatives in this country loved him). However, he had nothing to do with 911, AlQuida or the militant Islamic terrorism movement they were pushing at all really (they were as much a danger to him as to us). So spending vast resources going after him made our country weaker by ignoring the funders of terrorism (Saudi Arabia) and the harborers of terrorism (Pakastan – both of whom the current president has described as “close allies”).




            ". . . why, how DARE you criticize the wonderful state controlled education system. Next thing you'll be saying is its the Teacher's union fault. Mind control by the liberal left is a wonderful thing!"


            The public education system in America is a microcosm of the nation itself. If you live a prosperous area where education funding is a priority, then you have some of the finest public education available anywhere on the planet. If you live in an impovrished area (most urban areas for example) where resources and priorities do not provide sufficiently for education, well then your just out of luck.




            "... yes, we most certainly do. We have monopolies selling us oil (OPEC comprised of entire nations taking money from us) yet we pursue the 5% of the oil provided by Exxon and the like calling for confiscating their businesses (nationalizing the oil industry), or taking any profits they make (about 5%) while the government rakes in about 15% in taxes. Yes, punish the job providers, the oil producers and the risk takers. We're MUCH better off having the same people who gave us FEMA, the Corps of Engineers and the state sponsored educational system running the oil industry too! That's a GREAT strategy!"


            Where I think we differ here is your belief that the problem is just America’s dependence on foreign oil (from the Bush family friends the Saudis who apparently just can’t control OPEC alone anymore) and no recognition of the problem of oil dependence in general.




            " . . . Right again. What a terrible system where people flock here from all the better medical systems, like England and Canada, to get our overpriced, inefficient and terrible healthcare. Again, we need the same people who gave us FEMA, etc. to manager our healthcare. Ask anyone in socialist Europe which system they'd rather have!"

            Most Europeans I know (I have to assume you dont actually know any?) truly pity Americas Healthcare system (we are what, last in infant mortality among industrialized nations, yet we spend the most money by nearly 100%? How is that possible?). Like education the American Healthcare system is a totally different experience depending solely on what economic stratus you happen to inhabit. If your wealthy enough to stroke a check for services rendered by a healthcare provider, then you have access to some of the finest healthcare available on the planet in America. However, very very very few people can afford this, especially in America. If you need insurance to help you pay for services, then you have access to fairly mediocre healthcare in the United States. It’s the most expensive in terms of cost but really pretty average when compared to modern industrialized nations. Lastly if you are too poor to have insurance, America is a substandard third world country when it comes to healthcare. Do you think people die in European emergency rooms awaiting care . . . they do in America. We are number one in procedurally preventable deaths of all industrialized nations, number one. More people die in the United States from the lack of proper care then in any other industrialized nation (yet once again we spend money then anyone else, by tons). There seems to be a lot you don’t know about the American Healthcare system, be glad you don’t, it’s a pretty scary industry at the moment. If you think healthcare in America is so great I suggest you look into “Medical Tourism” and ask yourself why Americans would want to go to Mexico, Panama, Brazil or Malaysia to get treatment.



            "it has always been the responsibility of the gub'ment to make you save for your retirement. And, if you do save, they double and triple tax you on it, and then don't pay you back what you put in. You can't even invest what you put in in what you choose to invest. Rather, we have them invest it for us at an average 2% return. Yes, the lifestyle you deserve in your retirement (if you count on social security instead of self reliance) will be what you deserve."


            Social security is what makes the Republican s method of big government big spending possible. The Government simply lumps that money into the general fund and uses it to help make up for the budget-taxes shortfall (there is no retirement savings account, it’s a myth, it never existed). FICA allows the American worker to be taxed disproportionately without him even knowing it. Why did I pay 30+% of my income in taxes in 2001 and Dick Cheney only paid 12 to 18% of his income in taxes? FICA my friend that’s why, the secret tax on the working man.

             

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          Anonymous Coward, Aug 25th, 2008 @ 8:19am

          Re: Re: Re: What Amazing Timing!

          You watch waaay to much CNN. Every talking point you regurgitate is directly from the mainstream media.

          Learn to think for yourself and maybe you wouldn't be so bitter. You are welcome to move to Canada any time. I hear Sweden will let anyone live there now, you don't even need to get a job.

           

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        Brian, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 1:55pm

        Re: Re: What Amazing Timing!

        I would argue that the next election is ALWAYS the most important election in our nation's history. Think about it.

        And to answer the "why now" question: just imagine if they had waited until December, or worse, stuck to their denials until the Ohio lawsuit exposed them as frauds. I don't know about you, but I'm sick of hearing "if they hadn't stole it from Gore" sheeple-speak, but I'm resigned to the fact that it'll be said until the end of time. If the 2008 outcome is disputed, at least they won't be completely to blame.

        It's never too late to pass out blank index cards and pencils in a public setting a count those votes in another public setting, with the ballots never leaving public view. Yeah it might be expensive having to pay people for their time instead of depending on the few retired citizens who bother volunteering, but it'll be cheaper in the long-run.

        How Premier (Diebold) can possibly survive this a vote-tabulation-device business is a mystery.

         

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:17pm

    Tombstone Blues..

    "Stop all this weeping, swallow your pride
    You will not die, it's not poison"

    And you want to spread democracy in middle east......ROFL

     

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    WarOtter (profile), Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 12:45pm

    Listen...

    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords out is no basis for a system of government. True executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic ceremony!

     

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    Overcast, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 1:53pm

    Just all par for the course in the New World Order.

     

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    Overcast, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 1:56pm

    Oh, but gotta keep the sheep thinking they are voting for parties that are actually different and that the vote even counts!

     

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    Refund?!..Refund?!..Refund?!, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 2:08pm

    can I get a refund on the last eight years....I think there was a mix up at the register.

     

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    M@TT, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 2:38pm

    holy crap

    How hard can it be to program an application that accurately counts votes? I've coded applications 20x more complex than that... seriously that has to be embarrassing...

     

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      Wally, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 3:53pm

      Re: holy crap

      yeah sure, but it's the programming that drops the votes that is so hard because it has to remain hidden in the code. But then again if no one can see the code anyway...

       

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      Nathan, Mar 5th, 2010 @ 12:16pm

      Re: holy crap

      I think this may be a bit more complicated than you think, and we cannot count out the ever presence of user error! From the simplest of programs to the most high quality antivirus you can find, it takes education for successful implementation.

       

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    Niles Gibbs, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 2:51pm

    It soothes everyone

    There's a perfectly good reason for them to tell us now: they want it out in the open, they want people talking about it, and most importantly, questioning the future election results.

    I predict that Obama is going to win. Even if we have a perfect, lossless system in place, Obama will win because people are sick of what the current Administration has done. At this moment in time, this country can't take another Bush, and there'll be rioting in the streets if McCain wins.

    Now, by admitting that the machines are faulty, all the liberals get to yell "See, see, we were robbed!" But it won't matter, because it's not like there's a paper trail to prove it, and our status in the world won't improve by it.

    They've claimed that everything will be fixed by November. So now, everyone, not just the liberals, will be suspicious. I mean, now that they've admitted it, the conservatives will now have their own seed of doubt planted about the upcoming election.

    And then, when (not if) McCain loses, the conservatives will be able to say: "How do we know the machines were ready? We've been cheated, we've been cheated!" They won't take to the streets (they haven't had 8 years to build up their anger) but they will store this unease for future reference.

    Obama will be walking a tight-rope is entire presidency anyways, and every little mistake (or big, who knows) will be eagerly recorded by the right, so in 4 years they'll come back with the left's own rhetoric, pointing out his failings, and reminding everyone about the questionable results of 2008.

    So unless Obama pulls off a miracle (unlikely), he'll get his 4 years, and 2012 will really be something to see.

    Either way, Diebold keeps making money, cause governments aren't asking for something else, they're asking them to fix it.

     

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    SFG, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 6:33pm

    Votes

    Of course we know paper ballots never were lost nor did we have hanging chad problems or anything. I can't figure out why we went from the perfect paper ballot system to electronic machines anyway.

    If you really are concerned about your vote don't focus on the anomaly. This is the same company that makes your ATM machine. Are you ready to go back to the days when you can only get cask on weekdays from 9 to 5?

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 6:41pm

    Reminded me of my favorite The Onion video on the elections.
    Diebold Accidentally Leaks Results Of 2008 Election Early

     

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    SFG, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 6:41pm

    RE: How hard can it be

    "Holy Crap",

    The issue is operator error not realizing the flash memory with the votes is not fully loaded. This is nor an application problem. If someone yanks a hard drive or memory during an update executing the finest code there would be data loss.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Aug 22nd, 2008 @ 9:36pm

      Re: RE: How hard can it be

      If someone yanks a hard drive or memory during an update executing the finest code there would be data loss.
      Do you work for Diebold or something? That is just total rubbish. There are ways to prevent such loss but Diebold apparently didn't bother.

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2008 @ 1:17am

    I guess somebody at diebold/premier finally watched "man of the year"

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 23rd, 2008 @ 12:02pm

    take matters into your own hands... everyone who has to vote on one of these machines should smash it to ensure your vote gets counted!!!

     

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    Wolfy, Aug 24th, 2008 @ 7:27am

    Now there's an intelligent approach!

     

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    feckineejit, Aug 24th, 2008 @ 9:11pm

    what a joke

    Why are we voting again? The next president will be elected by way of; A computer glitch caused by computers supplied by a company with politician boardmembers. Or a politiican purging voter roles for his idiot brother politician. Or votebox tampering by individuals left alone with boxes of votes that are meant to be dual control. Or a corrupt system that is more about lies and spin doctoring than the truth or issues? Every vote counts my ass.

    I every vote counted we would reform the voting process: PAY PEOPLE to assist with the act of voting instead of relying on volunteers to do a shitty job of it. Don't let a company with political ties run the voting machines. Don't let political attack ads form peoples view of candidates.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Aug 24th, 2008 @ 10:03pm

    Cecil Rhodes and others set up the Royal Institute of International Affairs (RIIA) in Chatham house England around 1900 for the creation of a anglo globalistation, one world government, it was taken over by the Rockefeller foundation and moved to New york, where the american branch was called the Council of Foriegn Realations, from there they developed the modern day 2 party system so you feel you have a say, but you dont, to get to top of either party you have to have the support of the CFR and RIIA as well as the financial elite through bilderberg groups, committee of 300 etc, otherwise the media will knock you out.

    America is a 1 party two fraction fools democracy The latest characters are McCain and Obama, go watch the punch and judy puppet show between Obama and McCain, who are both cleared through the CFR with Zbigniew Brzezinski the author of the grand chessboard and rothschilds agent being a founder of the TLC acting as foriegn policy advisor. Do not look at the head behind the curtain..Its the American 1 Party - 2 fractions puppet show, its fools democracy. instead of controlling one party and upsetting people with undue influence, they control two and you feel like you have a choice and make a difference, what you have is two fractions acting in concert in a feudalictic fashion as part of the illusion .. Its Chocolate or Chocolate Flavour i am afraid, Remember its also not who votes that matters, is who counts the votes that matters.

    American people do not chose their president, they chose from two candidates put up as being alternative, but both have to agree to continue the same agenda to get the shot at the top job. Its today known as the "Quigley Formula". Caroll Quigley was invited into their inner circle to act as historian, he agreed with their plans for world domination but did not agree with there secrecy, he revealed all in a book called "Tragedy and Hope"
    Presidents are Selected not elected, do not look behind the curtain !!

    Kennedy wanted to get rid of them out of American politics and released this speech asking for help from the American people, they got rid of him, Cant blame them though, they got him in there and he rolled on them Have you heard it? 2 minutes long

    MUST WATCH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ngJNIk8elA

    He also brought out real USA backed currency, non Federal Reserve (private company) currency and had released lower denominations, all withdrawn within 4 mths of his Assasination

    See the CIA pull back his bodyguard detail 100m away from the kill zone

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8&feature ...

    Only way to end Americas current problems is to VOTE INDEPENDENTS only and end party politics, also take back your money system and abolish the worlds only state sponsored terrorist group, the CIA, any other organisations are tools and assets .. Probably will never happen and they have won already, which if thats how it is, thats fine, but no more lies about democracy ( fools democracy for control) for the world ... its all about control and money, the worlds banks all belong to Rothchilds and friends as agreed upon in the 1800's

    Owners of the Federal Reserve:

    1) Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin 2) Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris 3) Israel Moses Sieff Bank of Italy 4) Warburg Batiks of Hamburg and Amsterdam 5) Lehman Brothers Bank of New York 6) Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York 7) Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (controlled by the Rockefellers) 8) Goldman Sachs Bank of New York

    Bring on the New World Order, its happening now with the latest merger being NAFTA, they hide it in trade agreements and we saw the EU grow out of the european economic council. in time, all will be merged together.

    People are so stupid and deserve to be ruled by a inner circle of parasites, people will loose their soveriegnty and nationalism, bring it on, just be aware they are calling for population controls and reductions, up to 80% through war, famine and desease..

    The CIA is the new world orders tool and available to USA corporate interests for a price...

    VOTE INDEPENDANTS and you have a very small chance, then again your number one enemy is the media censorship

    19 men in a cave versus US military/intelligence machine? hahaha Yeah Right! .........................................

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Aug 25th, 2008 @ 7:29am

      Re:

      "it was taken over by the Rockefeller foundation and moved to New york, where the american branch was called the Council of Foriegn Realations, from there they developed the modern day 2 party system so you feel you have a say, but you dont . . ."

      umm . . . America has really had basically a two party system since before we declared independance (we had loyalists and revolutionists). During the creation of our own government, we had a fight over strong central government versus state held power (federalists versus anti-federalists). These two parties morphed into the modern Republican and Democrats we have today.

      While I agree that there is largely no real tangible "idiological" difference between them anymore (they both believe in a gigantic all powerful central government), I dont believe there was any decision made in 1900 to do something that had been already around for 100 years at that point? Also, it was what 1912 when TR ran on a third party ticket for president (Bull Moose)? Did they not invite him to the meeting?

       

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      Anonymous Coward, Aug 25th, 2008 @ 8:29am

      Re:

      Didn't read it...too long.

       

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    Sayheyray, Aug 24th, 2008 @ 11:16pm

    Diebold

    I think this is Diebold's way of going on record admitting there was a problem.
    So..when theres a problem (lets say maybe err..
    the UPCOMING ELECTION!!!!),they won't get as much heat "WHEN"
    and I say "WHEN.. things go wrong, because they already admitted it.
    But of course, no one is REALLY to blame now is there?
    These things can happen with a new technology right?
    Yeah...that's the ticket..We'll just steal another election for the republicans then say..OOPS...MY BAD!!
    Didn't we already tell you the machines were f#cked up?
    Heh heh heh

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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