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1.  

   Not quite...

   

   Anonymous Coward, Mar 5th, 2008 @ 11:03pm

   
   

   So if a library wants to do an inter-library loan on an ebook, it's forced to print out the ebook, scan it back into a computer and then send the scanned copy to another library.
   
   Follow and read the link given in the Against Monopoly article. The library doesn't have to scan the article, it is also allowed to send the actual printed article to the other library. What the library with the on-line subscription is apparently not allowed to do is to directly hook up other libraries to that on-line subscription.

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2.  

   

   buckykat, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 12:57am

   
   

   um, AC, that's not a whole lot better. besides, you're missing the point. the point is that these restrictions are unnecessary and burden down a useful technology until it becomes useless. the only time i've seen ebooks done right is at baen's online library. everyone else would do well to learn from them.

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3.  

   ORLY?

   

   zcat, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 1:18am

   
   

   It does actually say it has to be 'printed' and them 'mailed, faxed or transmitted via Ariel (which would imply scanned back in, since it's now PRINTED on PAPER).
   
   Actual quote (bold added):
   --------
   The licensor grants the subscriber the right to use articles from subscribed content in the case of ScienceDirect as source material for interlibrary loans subject to the following conditions:
   
   * The ILL request comes from an academic or other non-commercial, non-corporate research library located in the same country as the subscriber.
   
   * The requested article is printed by the subscriber and mailed, faxed or transmitted by Ariel (or a similar ILL system) to the requesting library. "

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4.  

   So..

   

   zcat, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 1:30am

   
   

   The point I think we're trying to make here is that the text in question is in a very convenient electronic form. Even a few thousand pages of text is still a tiny file. It would be really efficient, easy and sensible to send the ebook as an email attachment, but instead the library is expected to use up a whole lot of paper and toner printing it out and then either scan it in again, or send the bulky pile of paper through the post.
   
   Why? Probably because the publisher wants it to be difficult, to discourage sharing of the text I guess.

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5.  

   Freight

   

   Yottabyte, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 3:46am

   
   

   So, the point of having it as an ebook in the first place is... saving shipping costs?

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6.  

   Simple Solution

   

   Gutenberg/LibriVox Fan, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 5:03am

   
   

   - Project Gutenberg (www.gutenberg.org), LibriVox (librivox.org) and The Wayback Machine (www.archive.org, http://www.archive.org/details/audio, http://www.archive.org/details/texts).
   - The best that humanity has created, for hundreds of years, is available for the cost of a download, at the above sources.
   
   - IMHO, Libraries could augment their budget and popularity by preparing CD's (for loan or sale) with content from the above sources.
   
   - Skip the modern stuff. Let only the wealthy buy and see if the authors/publishers can financially survive in that niche.
   - For the rest of us, wait until time sorts out which modern stuff is trash and which will be classic literature.

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7.  

   Re: Freight

   

   Anonymous Coward, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 5:08am

   
   

   No, I imagine they'd argue it's to save shelf space. You know, because libraries are so over-crowded with physical books. eBooks allow whole stacks to be store virtually and printed out at your leisure (and expense).

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8.  

   Kill More Trees

   

   Anonymous of Course, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 6:35am

   
   

   Kill more trees, they produce carbon dioxide
   under the stealth of darkness and I would
   rather have the printed copy of the text.

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9.  

   Why not

   

   Ryan, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 6:39am

   
   

   What would be the ultimate solution (I think) would be to have ONE repository for libraries to go to for e-book subscriptions AND make it affordable. The ebook should make it so that the Inter Library Loan mechanism goes away for e-books anyway.
   
   I can only assume the problem is that there are SO MANY e-book subscription places that the total price becomes prohibitive.
   
   One repository, one price (a decent one too).

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10.  

    Re: Why not

    

    Evil Mike, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 6:57am

    
    

    What a great idea, that way if something happens to that one repository; all libraries are out of luck!
    
    It'll make stopping ebooks very simple.
    
    Yess... do that.

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11.  

    Re: Why not by Evil Mike

    

    Anon Coward, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 7:29am

    
    

    One repository does not necessarily mean one server in one location.

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12.  

    A librarian's response

    

    Blake Walter, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 8:55am

    
    

    Thanks for noting what is a constant source of irritation for librarians -- trying to make the change between old models of strictly print-based services to new models of working with electronic resources . . . without breaking copyright laws. If you're interested, I have a longer rant available here: http://theologicallibrarianship.blogspot.com/2008/03/ongoing-ebook-morass.html

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13.  

    Re:

    

    Anonymous Coward, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 9:27am

    
    

    um, AC, that's not a whole lot better. besides, you're missing the point.
    
    The point of that comment was that things aren't quite the way Mike described them. And they aren't, are they?

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14.  

    Re: ORLY?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 9:35am

    
    

    It does actually say it has to be 'printed' and them 'mailed, faxed or transmitted via Ariel (which would imply scanned back in, since it's now PRINTED on PAPER).
    
    ORLY. Just exactly how does "mailed" imply FORCED TO SCAN?

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15.  

    Re: Re: ORLY?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 10:18am

    
    

    Because the means of sending the text are both electronic so the data would need to be scanned by some means. I did not read the whole article but what would stop them from "Printing" to a .pdf

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16.  

    Re: Re: ORLY?

    

    just some random guy, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 10:30am

    
    

    > I did not read the whole article but what would stop them
    > from "Printing" to a .pdf
    
    Or printing it out, scanning it back in, doing OCR on the scanned version, then emailing a nice pristine ascii file of the text...

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17.  

    OK, OK..

    

    zcat, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 10:33am

    
    

    Yes, I admit they can send the stack of printed paper through the mail. Still it would make a lot more sense to send ebooks via electronic means. It's a stupid requirement that undoes most of the advantage of having the text in ebook format in the first place.
    
    I wonder if 'printing to pdf' would still be considered printing? They don't actually say that it has to be printed onto dead trees..

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18.  

    Re: Re: Re: ORLY?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Mar 6th, 2008 @ 3:01pm

    
    

    Because the means of sending the text are both electronic so the data would need to be scanned by some means.
    
    Uh, I hate to tell you this genius but mail isn't electronic. "Mail" is different from "e-mail" in that way.

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19.  

    Copying vs. Lending

    

    DKat, Mar 7th, 2008 @ 12:20pm

    
    

    It seems to me the problem is that if sent electronically, it would be a copy of the paid for subscription file. It would be similar to the library exactly reproducing and redistributing a paper book which they cannot exactly today. They send the actual book. There is still only one copy.
    I think the best way for them to handle the situation, stay electronic and yet reduce the copying is to assign each book per subscription with a unique serial number. When the library wants to load it out to another library from a subscription, they loan the serial number so there is still one copy only (as in the first library cannot use it until they get it back from the second). It has to be "checked" out from the subscription service.

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20.  

    Feed Error

    

    Joel Coehoorn, Mar 7th, 2008 @ 12:33pm

    
    

    This just showed up in my feed for the 2nd time. Kinda funny there's a problem with the feed on the same day you talk about having your own custom CMS ;)

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21.  

    Easier Method

    

    Zack, Mar 7th, 2008 @ 12:40pm

    
    

    It's possable to print to a "Driver" that creates an E-BOOK so no paper or scanning is nessacary

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22.  

    What? NOT add more shelves?

    

    RofMax, Mar 7th, 2008 @ 12:54pm

    
    

    Surely there's a law or a union rule somewhere that requires a certain amount of shelf space per book.
    
    I mean - what was Featherbedding all about if it wasn't assuring that technology didn't destroy everything we've worked for. If libraries don't grow, what will the workers do that would have built the new ones? What about the workers that built shelves? And bookmarks! And what about the workers that pushed the carts down the stacks reshelving books? All you technologists thinks about is 'destroy destroy.'
    
    Oh, forgot to mention that I'm from California, the state where public employee unions have greatly aided in creating the biggest state budget deficit of any state in world history!
    
    OK now with that out of my system, I agree that printing to PrimoPDF or some other .xyz to .pdf utility should solve this problem. The Elsevier policy specifically allows email (Ariel or similar system).

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23.  

    Re: What? NOT add more shelves?

    

    Anonymous Coward, Mar 8th, 2008 @ 12:26am

    
    

    The Elsevier policy specifically allows email (Ariel or similar system).
    
    And regular mail too.

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24.  

    

    Huge Selection Of Ebooks, Aug 24th, 2008 @ 12:48pm

    
    

    Yes this does seem a little ridiculous ... I wouldn't want to do all that work. It seems this would discourage libraries from buying ebooks altogether.

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