eBay Bans Negative Feedback For Buyers; Everyone Be Good Now
from the here-in-lake-wobegone... dept
eBay has been making some changes lately that aren't sitting well with eBay sellers. First, it announced fee changes that initially were promoted as "lower fees," but the details showed were only lower for goods that didn't sell. The fees on sold goods were actually higher. Now, the company has banned sellers from giving "negative" feedback on buyers. This is quite an interesting move. Years back, eBay was often held up as the epitome of user feedback/rating systems. However, over the years, problems have cropped up, leading to questions about how effective the system really is, as it's often been gamed. A specific complaint is that many buyers are afraid to leave negative feedback, as a seller can retaliate and provide a similarly negative response to the buyers. The hope, then, is that by not allowing negative feedback, buyers can start being more honest about sellers. Of course, from the sellers' standpoint, it also means it's much more likely that buyers can now be problematic, without worrying about a response. eBay claims that it will now personally handle complaints from sellers about problem buyers -- which seems like a pretty big undertaking for the company. Either way, there does seem to be something silly in having a company offer a feedback system if you can only say positive things.
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Yah! Nochild leftbehind finally made its way into companies!
This is a sooper idea. Its effects are wide ranging. Dumb people do dumb things and dumb people shouldn't be publicly mauled, No not at all. Where's the responsibility these days?
Can't wait until this idea trickles to FICO scores, and we all can pay the same interest rates! Here it comes. Grab your ankles and brace for it!
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Great!
This is good, I usually never complain about slow shipping or getting a product thats not as good as advertised. Now I can tell others about these problems without worrying about losing my 100% feedback rating.
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Once bitten....
I felt this firsthand, so there is some sympathy for the cause here: I once left a *positive* feedback to the seller, but in the comment mentioned that the shipping cost was a bit high. The seller retaliated with a negative and a comment along the lines of "you agreed to the shipping and now you comment about it?". eBay said they wouldn't interfere. The same seller was leaving negatives to his buyers with the comment "unnecessary neutral feedback received".
IOW, the feedback should be about the transaction, not about the feedback. And since eBay cannot enforce that, they will try other methods. Will see how that will work.
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astonishing...
i recently had an incident where i wrote to ebay, detailing why negative feedback for buyers is ludicrous.
my frustration stemmed from the fact that if a buyer leaves a negative feedback for a seller, it is VIRTUALLY INEVITABLE to expect negative feedback in return, even if as a buyer, you do nothing wrong.
I recently won an auction on ebay. I had tried contacting the seller to ask a question about the item 4 days BEFORE i bid...no response. I won the auction, and 3 days AFTER, i had STILL RECEIVED no response from the buyer.
So, I left a negative feedback, truly expecting never to hear from the seller again. I left feedback essentially stating that the seller had poor communication.
Low and behold, the next day, I receive the FIRST contact I had received from the seller, stating he had NO CHOICE but to leave me negative feedback...not because i had done anything wrong, but as a retaliatory attack on the negative feedback i had left for him. Of course, his utter lack of communication was deserving of the negative feedback, while I had done nothing wrong.
Negative feedback from sellers for buyers is WORTHLESS. all a buyer needs to do is to pay on time...that's it! What ebay needs to do, (since they already own paypal this will be easy) is to denote on average, HOW LONG IT TAKES PEOPLE TO PAY for goods they have won...end of story.
I complained numerous times to ebay's customer complaint people after this incident a week ago...guess they got my message.
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hmmm
How about this: You cannot see what feedback they put on your account until you do feedback on them?
How come people don't think through these things?
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oi vey
This is insane, there are so many "buyer" scams that were cropping up, everyone knows. Those scammers are going to have a field day now, hopefully limiting to Paypal verified payments and addresses only, will continue to protect the sellers and the buyers both.
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Flawed system- valued volume and not revenue
This may just be a wild generalization, but I the problem is think is too many people complain about low value transactions (i.e. $1.00 cell phone chargers and cases)
I imagine the level of effort and staffing required to mediate these types of loss-leading transactions make the transaction a substantial loss from eBay's side.
My typical eBay transaction is somewhere around $250.00, which probably isn't typical, but if I go online and buy a $500 unlocked phone, and it doesn't show up, I think others would like to know of this experience before they "Sit down at the table".
Maybe you've seen it: People with 100bazillion feedback points for selling "Junkdrawer Items."
Maybe feedback based first on buyer/seller's ability to resolve themselves, or allow positive/negative feedback if the transaction amount is over a certain amount, say $100?
If the conversation goes on back-and-forth for a while, then the feedback has a higher absolute value when the buyer posts it.
I remember when you could post non-transactional feedback, or pull up a seller's contact information and call them at home. Have things changed...
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Good, this is a step that should have been taken a long time ago.
There are sellers who say IN THEIR LISTING that if you leave them negative feedback they will AUTOMATICALLY leave it for you; that's ridiculous and there has been no way to fight it.
I'm in the same boat as many others, my negative feedback has been mostly from disgruntled sellers looking for revenge.
A system that allows this is useless and I'm glad they are taking steps to fix it.
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How stupid
Why not just not expose the buyer feedback until the seller finishes leaving their feedback?
Seems easy and fair.. Besides, anyone who takes the feedback seriously without a "grain of salt" is asking for trouble anyway..
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Well it's about time
It makes perfect sense. If I pay with paypal the second I win the auction, there is no reason for the seller to give me negative feedback. However if it takes him 2 weeks to send my package and it shows up with missing parts, I still have to give him positive feedback so he doesn't retaliate and give me bad feedback too. Hopefully this will weed out all the lazy sellers out there.
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This is really the best solution?
I can understand/relate to the Buyer's problem, and yes, it is annoying receiving negative 'retaliation' feedback.
But what about non-paying buyers? There are lots of them, and as Mike points out, that is a lot of complaints for eBay to take on, including the number of complaints and issues they already have to deal with. It takes effort and money for the seller to list things, so that is equally annoying having the do things twice.
The amount of non paying buyers also could go up if theres a small likeliness of repercussions from doing it.
Like its been mentioned a few times in these comments, not showing each others feedback until both sides have commented seems a better solution. Maybe not perfect, but better than stopping negative feedback.
What is the point of buyer feedback then? If it can only be good, whats the point of giving it?
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Not exposing doesn't work
If you don't expose buyer feedback until the seller leaves feedback then you haven't completely solved the problem Ebay is trying to fix. A scam seller will keep up their crooked behavior and never leave feedback so complaints against them will never be seen by others. A vindictive seller will go ahead and be vindictive as always since they'll know the buyer has already given their feeback and can't change it. Remember if the seller can't see the feedback then no-one can or else the seller could just log on under another name or as a guest to view pending feedback.
What Ebay really needs is a multi-step feedback process. Once an auction is won both buyer and seller are presented with questions: Did buyer complete payment? Was payment on time? Did item arrive on time? Were all items included? Was item(s) as seller described? Was item well packaged? Was communication required and did buyer/seller respond in a reasonable time? There should also be follow-up questions available later: Did buyer file chargeback? Did item turn out to be fake? etc.
These questions shouldn't be available all at once but timed appropriately. Buyer can't answer item is recieved before seller claims it was sent. Items with shipping costs can't be marked recieved quicker than say 2-3 days after auction ends and so on. Then this series of answers could be used by Ebay support during disputes, be available to viewers of feedback, and even used to "score" the probability of feedback being fair or retaliatory and control whether it is displayed.
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works for me
I know I've had a few experiences where I didn't leave non-positive feedback I felt was warranted only to avoid the retaliatory negative. Now I can tell it like it is.
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Scamming...
I never gave a negative to any of my buyers, even the few that went NPB. But not being able to is not acceptable.
Now that there is no protection at all against scamming buyers, and eBay has once again increased fees (calling it a decrease), I no longer sell on eBay. My last listing will expire in a day or so.
I make more money with less work from my own website, with an occasional sale from Blujay.com (which has no fees).
Nothing wrong with eBay that a healthy dose of viable competition wouldn't cure in a heartbeat. I may take a look at Amazon -- unless they buy eBay, in which case all of the grief will simply have a new URL.
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Too Little, Too Late!!!
eBay is merely applying a band-aid to a great big wound...
I once used eBay quite a bit and had many good transactions. About half of mine resulted in no feedback whatsoever from the Seller even when I left positive feedback for them.
Once, I too got retaliatory feedback from a seller for a true comment I made in feedback which made me very gunshy. However, the worst was yet to come.
I made a purchase from a Hong Kong seller that went bad. As I tried to work things out with one-on-one email then moving up the chain, eBay ignored the problem and let the problem stand.
I finally posted negative feedback against the seller as I had promised him in my replies and he of course retalitated. The real insult was that he not only posted negative feedback but that he lied and said I had not even contacted him. This was after a month of trying to work it out with him. To make things worst, he moved to extort me to remove my negative against him immediately after he posted the negative against me.
I began to work through the various dispute resolution shell games that eBay has in place that all in all amount to absolutely nothing it a hostile dispute with an unreasonable seller. He would only insist that I remove the negative feedback with no consideration to my issue. eBay did nothing to assist me all the way up the ladder and I finally got to something that wanted me to pay $30 to not get what I was already not getting... resolution.
As a last ditch effort, I disputed the transaction with the credit card company and provided more than 70 pages of documentation of the transaction gone south. The charge was reversed by the end of the day. We were both barred from the payment service for my "abuse" of the system. Interesting.
eBay gets paid by the seller and does not really care about you or your transaction. The feedback system is there to give you a false sense of security that the system is safe, however, eBay stands back and waves its hands when there is a real dispute indicating that they cannot take sides for legal reason.
I did consent to remove the negative feedback to help my feedback score only since it did not matter what the seller had to me at that point. eBay had proven to me that there was absolutely no integrity in the system anyway. I had to sit and watch the seller continue to defraud buyer after buyer and I was totally helpless to help any of them. He moved from Hong Kong to Singapore and it was many months before he was at last banished for whatever reason.
Bad sellers will continue to find ways to ruin it for everyone and eBay will continue to insist they need to make more and more for providing less and less. I have found that eBay's support ends at the cash drawer and you are very much on your own to deal with people you will hopefully never meet in real life. eBay lacks my eTrust!
Thanks for reading...
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Re: hmmm
How about this: You cannot see what feedback they put on your account until you do feedback on them?
How come people don't think through these things?
You're the one not thinking through things. All anyone would have to do is to check the feedback through a different account.
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Re: How stupid
Why not just not expose the buyer feedback until the seller finishes leaving their feedback?
Then all a seller would have to do to prevent negative feedback from a buyer he screwed over from showing up is just to refuse to leave any feedback for that buyer.
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how stupid
this is the dumbest thing i've ever seen. The entire point of the feedback system is simple, did your transaction go well and are you satisfied. If i bought something off ebay and the seller did not respond and the transaction did not go to MY liking, then i should have the right to let other ebay'ers know. Same as the other side as a seller, if i take the time to list an auction and the buyer didnt pay there by leaving me out from someone who would have paid, i have the right to spread the word to other sellers. What is the point of having a positive only feedback system....YOU CANNOT HAVE GOOD WITHOUT THE BAD...plain and simple. Scammers are part of any system, that is life get used to it. How about going after the scammers instead of doing something stupid like one siding the system. Just another example of corporate doing something stupid without really fixing a problem. I will never use ebay again to sell or buy.
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Substituted Reality?
How many times have you stayed clear of a seller with a low feedback score? Or one that has many *recent* negatives? I sure have. Heck even been burned by a few. And no, eBay was never there for me. I was out a few bucks here or there. Even had a few experiences where the process was sour but the seller and I agreed to both post positive feedback to maintain our high rating - which, interestingly, seems to be defeating the overall purpose of the rating system to begin with. Brent, nice call. For the marketplace to stay fair & balanced, a self-regulating system needs to be in place -- and hiding one's feedback from the buyer/seller until both parties have left feedback is just the ticket.
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Now add guaranteed bids to complete the loop.
To completely fix the loop here, bidders should guarantee payment at the time of their bid. PayPal, Credit Card, ACH debit, etc. If the buyer's payment is guaranteed -- in most cases, the seller would have little reason to leave negative feedback. Then, of course the buyer is free to leave candid and accuarte feedback.
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You simpletons don't really see the big picture.
The feedback issue is only one tooth on the sprocket of converting eBay to the online wal-mart. The new boss Donohoe recently complained that ebay was still like a flea-market. Now combine what you already know about the feedback change with the requirement of paypal and its new 21 day hold on funds for sellers that don't meet no less than 5 separate criteria and you will understand that ebay is looking to scratch the unprofitable segment of their 80/20 rule. One of the rules for instant funds availability is your rolling 30 day feedback must be at least 95 percent positive. This is no big deal in today's environment, but when the changes take place, ebay will be holding a ton of dough for 21 days.
Now since eBay has decided that their buyers are much more important than their sellers, they are happy please them at expense of the seller. What they seem to have forgotten is that the sellers are the ones providing 100 percent of their revenue.
If you really want to understand what is happening, look at these links and see what's happened over the last couple of years:
http://www.powersellersunite.com/auctionsitewatch.php
http://www.medved.net/cgi-bin/cal .exe?EIND
Now don't be surprised that the number of listings on eBay is skyrocketing right now. Many sellers are quickly dumping their inventories before the seller strike planned Feb. 18-25. and are claiming (at least) that they are shutting down for good. Check it out on ebay forums seller central if you don't believe me.
It appears that eBay's management has a new direction in mind and they think they can drive everyone off the cliff with them. They are wrong.
I like many others are seriously pushing our wares at:
http://ecrater.com
There are almost a million listings on that site and this free store front feeds straight into google base and google products. It also seamlessly integrates google checkout for credit cards. When people figure out how to search google products more efficiently, eBay will locked into it's death spiral.
This is a development that is not only healthy, but necessary to level the online marketplace playing field over the long term.
For companies like M$ that say they want to master search, what they need to do is master product search and it will be as if they own amazon, ebay, bidville, ecrater and every other podunk e-commerce site on the net.
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There is a bigger picture to be seen
The feedback issue is only one tooth on the sprocket of converting eBay to the online wal-mart. The new boss Donohoe recently complained that ebay was still like a flea-market. Now combine what you already know about the feedback change with the requirement of paypal and its new 21 day hold on funds for sellers that don't meet no less than 5 separate criteria and you will understand that ebay is looking to scratch the unprofitable segment of their 80/20 rule. One of the rules for instant funds availability is your rolling 30 day feedback must be at least 95 percent positive. This is no big deal in today's environment, but when the changes take place, ebay will be holding a ton of dough for 21 days.
Now since eBay has decided that their buyers are much more important than their sellers, they are happy please them at expense of the seller. What they seem to have forgotten is that the sellers are the ones providing 100 percent of their revenue.
If you really want to understand what is happening, look at these links and see what's happened over the last couple of years:
www.powersellersunite.com/auctionsitewatch.php
www.medved.net/cgi-bin/cal.exe?EIND
N ow don't be surprised that the number of listings on eBay is skyrocketing right now. Many sellers are quickly dumping their inventories before the seller strike planned Feb. 18-25. and are claiming (at least) that they are shutting down for good. Check it out on ebay forums seller central if you don't believe me.
It appears that eBay's management has a new direction in mind and they think they can drive everyone off the cliff with them. They are wrong.
I like many others are seriously pushing our wares at:
ecrater.com
There are almost a million listings on that site and this free store front feeds straight into google base and google products. It also seamlessly integrates google checkout for credit cards. When people figure out how to search google products more efficiently, eBay will locked into it's death spiral.
This is a development that is not only healthy, but necessary to level the online marketplace playing field over the long term.
For companies like M$ that say they want to master search, what they need to do is master product search and it will be as if they own amazon, ebay, bidville, ecrater and every other podunk e-commerce site on the net.
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Re: Re: How stupid
How about an automatic negative feedback for the seller and/or the buyer if they fail to leave feedback in two months.
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It's not a good thing...
Ebay also just announced that there will be no more listings for under 1.00... The sellers will have to go through their stores and re-list their items at a higher price...
I see a total collapse to this Ebay... They are a company that is driven by greed...
They have changed the feedback policy so that the buyer is the only one who can leave a negative comment to the seller... This gives the buyer the edge and gives him the ammunition they need to hold over a sellers head to get them to reduce shipping charges, or say they receive an item they don't care for and want a refund, they can request that the seller refund and if they refuse, then leave negative feedback...
When a sellers feedback score goes down (as Ebay is counting on) then the sellers FEES GO UP!! This will encourage all kinds of crooks to bid and then not pay, with no recourse what so ever for the Seller...
The fees were already too high from the hike they added last year, but this whole new system takes the cake...
It's unbelieveable... Then they tried to sell it to the ebayers as a "bonus for them" Ha... LOL... What a joke...
Many stores are already going out of business on there and there will be a strike by sellers from& nbsp; (Feb. 18-24)... As an ebay store owner and also a purchaser myself, I will join in the effort to have the "powers that be" listen to us... We are all searching for another venue to place our goods where everyone is treated fairly... I have been a registered ebay member since 1981 and have enjoyed both being a buyer and a seller... It's not a good experience anymore...
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eBay Bans Negative Feedback For Buyers; Everyone B
I have read and heard that for many years a few people have made fortunes doing auction business at eBay. 2 yrs ago, I tried it and eBay ripped me off by charging me twice for listing my product once and refusing to refund the second fee back to me. They have no phone where you can contact customer service to resolve any problems. If you send e-mail to them, you would receive a computer generated reply that is so stupid it would make you to fall down on floor laughing all day, assuming that you are unable to cry from frustration that they cause you. Many people may disagree with me, but conviction is that eBay is the most terrible online company in the world, and my money that they stole would be the cause of their demise in a few yrs.
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e-Fencing
On another note, it would be nice to see eBay take a proactive stance against e-fencing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fence_(criminal)
At one company, there was a problem with people selling SIM cards on eBay. When eBay was contacted, they essentially told us to go away.
Eventually, one of my colleagues started bidding and buying the SIM cards, and that's when the heads starting rolling... Because the best run companies run SAP, the ability existed to track serial numbers back to a customer and a transaction. (Helps to have a great BI system, you-know-who you are).
So last year, I saw a CNBC program on this same problem we had, and it brought back memories. I felt somewhat disappointed that eBay gave them the same cold shoulder.
What eventually happened? Well, a consortium of retailers decided to pursue it through legislation action.
Who was the winner? Not the customer of established Brick-and-mortar retail (who has to pay higher retail prices to cover shrink costs), the buyer (who is receiving stolen property) or eBay (who could have assisted, but will now is looking at having to comply with new legislation.)
So when the lawyers get involved, it gets exponentially more difficult.
http://www.lpinformation.com/Default.aspx?tabid=70&forumid=1&postid=10113& view=topic
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Neutral Feedback
Instead of giving negative feedback, a lack of a glowing positive feedback will be the same thing. Expect troublesome buyers to receive (or troublesome sellers to give) a lot more neutrals.
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Ebay blows now - go to Amazon
I find it laughable that eBay's increase of fees (but stated as lower) and removing negative feedback to buyers all comes because eBay feels it's not "expanding" fast enough.
So the solution is to screw the very consumer that put eBay on the map to begin with.
Without negative feedback to the buyer, sellers are screwed. If you people think that "instant retaliation" is what sellers do just because they got a negative, just wait until you see negatives running rampant because sellers can do NOTHING to protect themselves.
As a buyer (sometimes seller) on eBay, I take a look at the feedback of negatives. I can very easily spot those that are legit and those that are based on stupid people who don't have a clue.
Many sellers often do this as well. If a buyer places a bid on their item, they'll research the feedback and will quickly dismiss "seller retaliation" replies.
Now that eBay claims to be "in the middle" of disputes, sellers are going to have no choice but leave eBay for another option because eBay is absolutely WORTHLESS in disputes, and when they do get in, often side with the buyer.
eBay is in serious need of restoration. Buyers failing to pay and sellers screwing over people with extortion-style shipping and handling.
Oh yeah, now I remember why I no longer visit eBay and have returned to Amazon.com.
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Couple of comments
First, re: the AC who posted "You're the one not thinking through things." I believe the intent of the comment was that feedback would not be visible to anybody until both sides had left feedback, or time to leave feedback had expired.
Second, sure, there are a lot of crooks in eBay. There are also scams to run up positive feedback (nobody buys 500 items from an account set up a month ago, until you look and see they are all for a penny and to the same couple of sellers). I think this is a step in the right direction. Another way to accomplish it would be to require the seller to leave feedback as soon as the payment clears (e.g. right away for Paypal payments).
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Couple of comments
First, re: the AC who posted "You're the one not thinking through things." I believe the intent of the comment was that feedback would not be visible to anybody until both sides had left feedback, or time to leave feedback had expired.
Second, sure, there are a lot of crooks in eBay. There are also scams to run up positive feedback (nobody buys 500 items from an account set up a month ago, until you look and see they are all for a penny and to the same couple of sellers). I think this is a step in the right direction. Another way to accomplish it would be to require the seller to leave feedback as soon as the payment clears (e.g. right away for Paypal payments).
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What was the point before?
I admit my naiveté, but what was the point of buyer feedback in the first place? I mean... OK, so, a seller puts up his listing. If he has a good record, people feel confident bidding because they trust they'll get what they expect. if he has a bad record, people won't buy from him. But... Is the idea that you don't *sell* to a buyer with low feedback? I didn't think that was an option. They bid and win, you sell them the item, right? What am I missing?
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That's just plain stupid. If you can't get a fair review on a buyer or a seller, eBay's value as a service goes WAY down. There's already a lot you need to be careful of.
It impacts buyers too - not just sellers. Now some nitwit can bid on items and not buy, or whatever they may think up - with a high potential of impacting other buyers.
But... Is the idea that you don't *sell* to a buyer with low feedback?
I could go bid on items I can't afford, or just refuse to pay. If I didn't like a seller, for whatever reason, I could go jacking up the price of all his auctions... etc, etc.. I'm sure there are many ways to muck up things. The buyer having to stick to his commitment is as much a part of eBay as the buyer's sticking to their commitment. It's a two way street.
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eBay fees and feedback changes
eBay fee changes are an increase for me. I resent the news stories that are promoting the fee changes as decreases. Did eBay write those stories themselves?
As for the feedback changes, they are the death knell for eBay as far as this 10 year veteran is concerned. I am one of the small old timer sellers who specializes in the cool, unique, collectible, hard to find stuff, and I will be out of here in short order.
I've been hearing more and more reports of buyers leaving neutral or negative feedbacks for sellers or threatening to do so. Same people are shocked when the feedback they leave is reciprocated by the seller. Apparently many people think the feedback policy change is already in effect and don't realize it won't be until May. Then they threaten to report the seller to eBay because "seller's aren't allowed to leave neutrals or negatives anymore".
2/3's of my activity is as a buyer. I have never withheld feedback from a seller after I got the goods and was pleased with it. I have never threatened a buyer with a negative when they had an issue. I have always accepted returns from anyone dissatisfied. However the unspoken threat of receiving a possible bad feedback has probably held some nuisance buyers in check.
I truly believe that most people are good, honest folks who just want to buy or sell a widget. However there is that annoying small percentage of both buyers and sellers who can make your life miserable.
I keep track of my auction stats so I know this much. I have about a 4% NPB rate. Overall on eBay is 10%. In addition I have about a 2% PITA buyer rate, folks who cannot be pleased no matter how hard you try, or don't read or understand the auction description, or want to change my TOS, or renegotiate shipping costs post auction end etc. Only their reluctance to receive a negative has kept those people in check.
I figure anyone who sells on eBay in the future will be receiving negatives on a minimum of 6% of their transactions. In addition, if the seller doesn't immediately leave positive feedback for their buyers as soon as they pay, those sellers can expect to get negged by a lot of buyers for that as well. If the seller files NPB against a slow paying buyer they can expect a neg too. yet eBay is encouraging sellers to file such complaints.
Up until now anything less than a 98% positive feedback rating was considered pretty sketchy. What will the new "good seller" percentage be? I am betting it will fall to around 90%. How comfortable will that make buyers about shopping on eBay?
I really think eBay did not fully think through all the ramifications of these feedback changes. I do not see it as being positive for either individual sellers or for eBay as a whole.
So 60 days prior to the May change in policy is my cut off for selling on eBay. I don't feel comfortable selling in an environment where I can be unfairly chastised with a negative feedback without having much recourse. I've worked too hard with excellent customer service to achieve my 10 year good feedback record to allow any passing newby to chuck a rock at it.
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the solution is easy...
Hide all feedback until both parties have left feedback. Display how much negative, neutral, positive, and unreciprocated feedback a buyer and seller has. This will keep the system workign somewhat like it has and provide input as to how many potential negative feedbacks could be lurking that the seller/buyer chose not to leave feedback.
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Re: It's not a good thing...
This gives the buyer the edge and gives him the ammunition they need to hold over a sellers head
Without negative feedback to the buyer, sellers are screwed.
Sellers have been holding feedback over buyer's heads for years. They refuse to leave feedback until they get it, despite the fact that they must receive payment before sending an item. Why is the onus placed on the buyer to leave feedback first, when he's sent money first? I think the seller should be forced to leave a comment first, and before a buyer can post negative, there has to be proof of communication in an attempt to resolve the issue. This might require customer service and human review though, and we all know eBay is just terrible at that stuff.
I remember a while back there used to be the option to put a followup comment to the original comment...what happened to that? That's the perfect way to say "This guy doesn't leave any feedback."
I have been a registered ebay member since 1981
What
As a buyer, I do not recommend Amazon for non-new items. I've tried it twice and been burned twice.
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Negative Positive Feedback
At least the seller can do this:
Give the person their green star positive rating, but then in the text write:
** BEWARE THIS BUYER DID NOT PAY **
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Re:
But if you're just a bidder, and not a buyer, then the seller isn't RATING you. And jacking up the price, in a way, HELPS the seller: if someone has bid, the item sells. It's been my understanding that placing a bid represents a commitment to pay, by the terms of use for eBay. How can you refuse to pay? Doesn't that at least warrant sanction from eBay, for not playing by their rules? How does any of this have anything to do with feedback on buyers?
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A couple of years ago I found my first vindictive seller. I was wanting one of those 3M privacy filters that you slip over your monitor to keep people from seeing what you're working on, and so I started watching ebay for a good deal. I found and won an auction for about 1/2 the retail price. I immediately sent payment and waited.
And waited. And waited. And waited. 8 business days later and I don't have my screen and I have received zero communication from the seller. I send off an e-mail via the "ask seller a question" link and finally get a response that he accidentally "scratched" the filter while packing it and was going to refund my money. I wrote back and said that was fine, but it would have been nice to know that a week ago so I could have looked at other auctions. I left neutral feedback stating that "Seller had 0 communication. Broke item before shipping - all money refunded." which in my opinion is more than fair.
His response was to post negative feedback about me (and this is a cut and paste quote) "Refunded money to avoid problem later, Sellers beaware!!, selfish person."
That's right, I'm selfish because I wanted the product I paid for and I wasn't willing to wait any longer than 8 business days before contacting him... beaware!
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I don't sell on eBay anymore.
eBay will offer virtually zero protection for sellers, charge them exorbitant listing fees, take an exorbitant cut of what your final sale price is, then take another cut through their subsidiary PayPal when the buyer chooses to go that route.
Amazon will cover your shipping costs via credit, offers a protection policy, and basically looks after both buyer and seller.
Sure they take a cut - but you have more protection in the process.
eBay is run like a cartel. They have set up a system where buyers can claim they didn't get an item, trash you with negative feedback if you report them to eBay, and eBay offers no recourse outside of a '3 strike' rule against buyers to kick them off eBay, where they promptly sign up again.
Screw that noise.
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Re: Re: It's not a good thing...
As a former eBay seller, I always waited on positive feedback from the buyer.
Why?
Because the transaction is not completed when you are paid. There is the possibility that your funds get tied up in PayPal due to some erroneous complaint, that you get scammed with a fake check, that any number of things go wrong after being paid.
When the buyer posts positive feedback, you are then able to say that it was a successful transaction.
Sellers take all the hits on fees, etc. - they should control the feedback process.
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This is a good thing
This is a good thing, although Dan's 'easy solution' may have also worked. I have been burned by this twice in the past - purchased an item from a Power Seller, paid within hours, and did not receive the item until 6-8 weeks later with no explanation / communication from seller. When I left negative feedback, the seller recipricated and it hurt me much more than him.
Also, sellers are somewhat protected from bad buyers - THEY DON'T SHIP THE ITEM UNTIL THEY RECEIVE THE PAYMENT. The only exposer the seller is subjected to is an irrational buyer that leaves negative feedback even though the item was good quality, as described, and shipped promptly. The folks at eBay should be able to identify these irrational buyers based on some automated algorithms that look at the amount of negative feedback left by a buyer as a fraction of their overall volume of feedback, and also by looking at the number of times the buyer leaves negative feedback for a seller that has otherwise received overwhelmingly positive feedback.
Thanks eBay!!!
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I've been there
Left negative feedback on a seller who sold me junk. Got the same in return for my candor. Have been unwilling to say anything since.
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Just like any other seller...
All of you sellers who are complaining about this need to get a grip (in my opinion, of course). You are a seller. Have you never seen other systems that allow buyers to rate sellers and NOT the other way around? You can visit any number of sites where you can rate your buying experience at WalMart, Circuit City, Best Buy, etc... What you don't see are Best Buy's comments regarding their CUSTOMERS.
News flash: The buyers are your customers. Talk bad about your customers, lose business. I'm pretty sure this is Business 101 stuff here.
If anything, I agree that the system should automatically apply some rating/listing to indicate how quickly the buyer posted payment, maybe an average would suffice. That's really the only job of the buyer.
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News Flash
News Flash: Individual sellers on an auction site being compared to WalMart/Circuit City/Best Buy/etc. is retarded.
When I sell something on eBay, I pay a listing fee, I pay fees for whatever features, I pay a final transaction fee, and I pay a cut to PayPal if the buyer pays through that route.
eBay's policies leave me virtually unprotected *except* for the ability to leave feedback to a purchaser.
I've never gotten bad feedback as a buyer or seller. I've never left bad feedback as a seller - but I have as a buyer.
Ultimately if eBay had the same protection guarantees if a buyer is a deadbeat and scams you out of money - I'd be fine with not being able to leave feedback.
However, I no longer sell on eBay because of that.
"Power Sellers", i.e. real businesses can still afford to.
Borrowers/Sellers who leave frivolous feedback are a problem, but that problem was manageable because they could both leave feedback.
If scammed by a borrower - I could post on his profile "SENT FRAUDULENT CHECK/BEWARE" and this protected other sellers.
How is this any different than a business posting signs of someone caught shoplifting, etc. to other businesses?
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Re: News Flash
I'm the naive one above, but no one's addressed my question: how does leaving negative feedback on a buyer accomplish anything but give you a warm feeling? Is there some way for a seller to say, "He won my auction, but I don't want to deal with him because he has a low rating"?
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Re: News Flash
Hey, M Cooper, you're right... "How is this any different ... to other businesses?" I think that was exactly my point. Thanks! ...though, odd that you'd say that right after saying that to make that comparison is "retarded". But thankfully in America, you can call yourself whatever you want. Yea America!
You think retail stores don't pay to list things for sale? Come on... please think about your responses, folks.
Personally, I mostly stopped dealing with eBay when PayPal use became such an issue with them. Too much inbreeding. I'll only resort to eBay in the most dire of situations now, as a buyer or seller.
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Re: Re: News Flash
Example:
I spend $3 of my money listing a $10 item.
Buyer wins auction at $8.
Buyer decides he doesn't want item.
Buyer doesn't pay.
I just lost $3.
I leave negative feedback: "Buyer did not pay, refuses to respond to emails."
Other sellers then vet the buyer prior to allowing them to bid. Buyer can't get on some auctions he wants to get on because of the number of sellers complaining about not getting paid.
Free Market FTW.
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Stop focusing on JUST feedback, it's the least of
But please do remember that back & forth feedback was part of the whole eBay COMMUNITY - buyers and sellers are often one in the same, especially in the niche/hobby areas. But the new CEO, Donahue, has said quite frankly that eBay is moving to the Amazon model; large Power Sellers with new goods only.
They want the small/sporadic sellers (even smaller Power Sellers) gone - no more garage-sale-in-the-sky.
The eBayPal monopoly (and it is one - if not by legal statutes then certainly by the constraints they have and are soon imposing) has been moving in this direction since eBay bought PayPal ... remember when it was X.com and didn't charge?
It's all about the bottom line, the community aspect has been slowly moved out from around us and people are looking around and realizing only the barest trappings are there.
Feedback is the least of the issues change-wise; it's mainly a smokescreen in that people are focusing their enraged emotions on it ... the real issues are the fee increases (http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/pages/feecalc), the fact that small sellers will be pushed lower in search results, and the whole escrow issue with eBayPal transactions that have been deemed risky*
This last issue is where the FB change comes into play as more than a smokescreen; your DSR (star) ratings will have a bigger impact now - they will soon show only the last month's ratings ... the lower your ratings (or none if you haven't sold in over a month) the more at risk you are to have your payment funds as a seller held in escrow - however, you still need to ship the item and will have nearly zero recourse if buyer claims not to have rec'd. Many are already questioning the legality of this as eBay owns PayPal and forced escrow is only supposed to be held by a neutral party.
The sad thing is, a lot of small sellers - good & honest people whose eBay sales are their income - are already getting threatened with negative feedback by "buyers" with an agenda. The agenda is either one of stupidity (thinking that already sellers cannot leave even valid non-pos FB in return) or one based on terror; telling sellers that come May they are going to use their several IDs to neg them until their star-ratings are so low they're thrown off of eBay entirely.
How is that right???
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If it's broke, break it some more
Great, so eBay takes their absolutely horrible feedback system and decides to make it even worse. I am glad I decided to stop using eBay a little while ago.
While there are lots of completely honest buyers and sellers, the 3-5% of users who are either scammers, or just PITA(buyers and sellers) brings the entire site down. Their system is broken, and has been for a while. Now under the guise of "fixing" the issues they are actually making things worse.
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Re: Re: hmmm
Or perhaps hold the feedback from anyone's view until both sides have left feedback?
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Re: Re: Re: How stupid
Rather than doing that (it IS possible for people to forget), how about this?
Feedback from one side is not made publicly available until a) the other side also leaves feedback or b) the time period for leaving feedback expires. At that point the feedback is added to the parties' scores and the comments are available for viewing.
Of course, if this were implemented, they would have to look again at the length of time available to leave feedback - what is it now, 90 days? That might be too long under such a system.
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Re: Now add guaranteed bids to complete the loop.
The problem with that is that many sellers wait until *after* the buyer has left feedback to leave theirs, which still leaves buyers open for retaliatory comments.
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Re: What was the point before?
Actually, for some sellers that's exactly the case - I can't tell you how many auctions I've come across where the seller states that if you have below a certain number for feedback then you *must* contact them before bidding.
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Re: the solution is easy...
On the other hand, the seller/buyer can see how their rating changes and know what kind of feedback is waiting for them, then respond in kind.
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Some sellers game the system
There are some eBay sellers who game the system. They're on the fringe of fraud. If the buyer leaves a neutral or negative feedback, these sellers leave horrible negative feed back and then immediately offer mutual feedback withdrawal. So, these sellers preserve a positive rating that is totally false and undeserved! eBay had to do something, but I think this is the wrong approach, some buyers deserve a negative rating.
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Re:
There are bad sellers, YES ,but there are also good sellers who answer emails and have good customer service. It takes a lot of time to create auctions . It takes alot of work to keep a good Feedback Score.
We deal daily with individuals that want to bid and not pay. I am extremely uneasy about 0 to 10 Feedback buyers. I have too many playing games.
Leaving Negative has never been our first choice but after going through EBAY the slotted time frame, we have left a few negs to non paying buyers,Someone has to warn other sellers of these game playing jerks. We go through EBAYS channels to get refunded the final Value Fees. We eat the listing fees!. I feature alot of auctions and a nonpaying customers joke will cost me $20-$30.
But thats over now. They are free to destroy what took so long to build. I have welcomed the Good Buyer but Dreaded the bad one. Please remember, There are more honest sellers than the dis-honest one and the same for buyers BUT THE scale has tipped in favor of the buyers and the end for honest sellers in EBAY. Our hands are tied. I am jumping ship before it capsizes as are most of the others honest sellers who have been EBAY members longer than I have. All that will be left in EBAY will be the bad sellers. Take Care and good Luck .You'll need it.
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Re: Stop focusing on JUST feedback, it's the least
You are right.There is more going on than Feedback change. This is aimed at the small seller. They don't want us.They want to keep the buyers happy, To Hell with the Sellers.!!
I am a honest seller that bends over backwards to please my customers and to keep a 99.6% feedback score. (The 4% I lost to negative feedback, Non-paying Jerks)
If EBAY doesn't want me, fine. I've already closed my store and my auctions end this weekend. If the honest sellers are leaving than all thats left are the bad ones. They'll get what they deserve. So will GreedBay!!I've supported them long enough. The ship is going down, better jump before it sinks!!!Take Care and Good Luck !!!SDB
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some buyers aren't nice either
I've sold jewelry that came in three specific sizes, and I told buyers right on the auction to MEASURE ACCURATELY. The first I hear of a problem is not an email from the buyer, but a neg stating that it didn't fit and the item was misrepresented. There are also buyers in certain collectible markets that are known for non-payment, and for leaving negs when you don't meet their demands after the sale. There are buyers who will post negs when it takes a long time to get the item, when it was themselves who gave you an incorrect address to begin with. Many people will not buy from someone without perfect feedback, but being able to mark irresponsible buyers as such is a boon to small businesses and occasional users.
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I totally understand why they are doing this. This is the basic rule that I found out the hard way. If you use your eBay account to sell stuff. DO NOT leave negative feedback when you buy something with that same account. I had terrible service, from an eBay seller known by tauntonmassmaninhouston (cincinnatiscifi) left negative feedback and received retaliatory negative feedback and this reflected on my seller and buyer reputation. For someone who has worked hard just to build up few transactions and good rep this seriously messed with my feedback rating. Do a search on him, the guy is awful he's got pages and pages devoted to him and his service.
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and the Arbitration system blows chunks
eBay doesn't seem to understand that integrity matters. I went to arbitration once with a bad seller and basically they were given an automatic free pass. No seller integrity, no eBay-- I stayed away for a long time. Larger sellers seem to be their target audience these days, but the real nuts and bolts of the service was connecting individuals. Finding an antique guitar from someone on the other coast was compelling, but those garage sale kind of sellers increasingly just stay away. What's not compelling? Yet another way to find a store that sells crap through page after page of automated listings. eBay is obviously building their business to service other businesses.
If craigslist would establish some kind of credentialing between individuals, eBay would go away pretty fast. Forehead SMACK!! THAT's why eBay bought craigslist-- to make sure that craiglsit transactions stay anon so they will always come with 10 flakes for every done deal.
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ebay feedback
How in the world does eBay really KNOW there are so many skittish buyers who are deathly afraid to buy from the site? If this is really a problem, how about some data to back up sweeping policy changes? I plain don't trust the intel on this. This issue is a false one, IMO, made to cover up substantial rate increases for the little guy. We're getting the bum's rush. I personally liked the online flea market atmosphere. Donohoe and GM will be selling used cars together now, the entire inventory. What other shock and awe has Donohoe got for us ? A previous post said eBay is becoming an online WalMart. I agree. When Sears bought Land's End, I stoppped buying their stuff. eBay is going upscale. What a dumbass idea.
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I am going to come at this from the seller side, I have been selling on ebay for 6 months now, but been on ebay as a buyer of various things for 7 years now. So i look at this from both sides.
But at as a seller, I cant express to you the frustration with buyers that just dont take the process seriously, I am not a retail store, nore to I have unlimited time and resources, I am a guy that is selling on the side for a small business or maybe liquidating personal belongings, I dont have the time nore the energy to deal with people who dont pay, or buy the item and then tell you, ummm you know what, I dont really want the item anymore, or umm could you lower the shipping. 1 out of 7 is this type of buyer. And they cause me the most stress, and i am sure other sellers as well. Ebay has not address the problem with unpaid items and the feedback associated with it. I think a seller has the right just as the buyer to rate the other party, if someone doesnt act within reason or just doesnt care, its not worth risking a retalitory feedback. What should happen is there should be a 3rd party ensuring the claims made by one side or the other.
I as a seller would pay 1 or 2 % insurance to protect myself and my feedback reputation from people who act in a harmful manner.
As a seller, I just wanna sell, and make money. Free Market Forces will dictate who will survive as a seller and who wont. All I ask for is a fair level playing ground and that everyone follow the rules and be held accountable for not.
BUYERS AND SELLERS
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How can sellers block bad buyers?
I plan on leaving nothing but negative comments to shove this in ebays face.
Let's see what happens when all the feedback I leave is negative.
With the old system, If I had left 100 negs, I'd get 100 negs.
Now I can leave 100 negs and still have 100 positive feedback.
I will complain about everything.
Box was dirty.
Color is light purple; looked dark purple in picture.
This is going to be fun!
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this is retarded.
main things that gives sellers bad rating:
*selling something they do not have.
*selling something that suck, not as advertised, etc.
*slow shipping.
****if eBay make these changes about feedback..
it will make the market better in some ways.
how? sellers will be forced to not sell something they do not have etc.. better competition and high profit selling popular stuff for people that do have the popular product.
manufacturers will profit this as well sellers will give better pricing to get the stuff to sell.
shipping will be changed to all sellers. which means sellers will not make money off of shipping anymore because they pay the actual shipping cost that they advertised.
the bad =[
Douchebag customers that think this is a RETAIL STORE will now leave bad rating at literally ANYTHING. 1 day late in shipping, BAD FEEDBACK. prado and advertised as prado buyer thingks its prada BAD FEEDBACK. buyer paid for shipping as advertised but then complains that its too much BAD FEEDBACK (why the hell did u buy it then?) now. its a snowball effect. one person leaves a bad feedback, and another, and another, and another, and another... next thing you know the seller hits 5% bad feedback. bye bye to you power sellers.
what ever happened over 2 years ago where feedback mattered? where people work on getting good ratings and so does the sellers. you have to look at it this way, a power seller will not be a power seller if they are not doing something right.
BACKORDER IS INEVITABLE
SHIPPING CARRIERS LAZY F*K FACES IS INEVITABLE
RETARDED BUYERS IS INEVITABLE
....OR, i may just be talking out of my a**
..lol @ j brown's comment. pay for $1 item and be god amirite?
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Re: How can sellers block bad buyers?
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Re: How can sellers block bad buyers?
HAHAHAHHA !!!!
Let's Go and F*Ck some Sh*T up!!!!