Law Firm Uses Copyright Claim To Say You Can't View Its Website's HTML Source

from the that's-a-new-one dept

Greg Beck writes in to let us know that the law firm that was recently challenged for claiming that it was a copyright violation to post its cease-and-desist letter also has some other interesting ideas about copyright, including banning people from looking at the firm's source code. You can view the entire user agreement, but the amusing part is:
"We also own all of the code, including the HTML code, and all content. As you may know, you can view the HTML code with a standard browser. We do not permit you to view such code since we consider it to be our intellectual property protected by the copyright laws. You are therefore not authorized to do so."
As Beck says, "That's kind of like a puppet show invoking copyright to prohibit the audience from looking at the strings. The user agreements of the law firm and one of its clients also contain a bunch of terrible terms that have become all too common: a prohibition on linking to the site, copying anything from the site (even if its fair use), and even referring to the website owner by name. The law firm doesn't even allow its own clients to say they're represented by the firm without permission." He also notes that the law firm in question is demanding that another website remove criticism of one of their clients because it did not receive permission to use the client's name or link to the website -- two things that the laws and the courts have been pretty clear in saying is perfectly legal over the years.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
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    Sir LinkALot, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 1:35pm

    Bollocks

    Argh!!! I'll be linkin' and postin' and pilferin' and testin' their will, yes aye will...

     

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  2.  
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    RandomThoughts, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 1:51pm

    They also ban clicking on their ads if you don't actually want to become a customer.

    Sounds about right that a lawfirm would have this type of wording. I might just have to link to their site. Wonder how many inbound links they will have in a week.

    Of course, maybe that was their intention.

     

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  3.  
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    Brad, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 1:54pm

    It's out of embarrassment

    So I just took a look at their source code. No wonder they don't want anyone to see it - for a "technology specialist law firm" (which self-describes in the META tags as 'Top rated internet lawyer'), their code appears to have been written by a drunk teenager in the late 90's. It's all tables, and amazingly, all nested tables at that. There's not a single DIV on the entire page.

    Incidentally, I did not view the source code. I used Firefox's Firebug to inspect the DOM - which is completely different and therefore, since not explicitly forbidden, is allowed.

    What if I look at the source code BEFORE I find the user agreement? What then?

    I thought law firms knew that implicit agreement doesn't work anymore.

    Legal notice: By reading any of my comments found anywhere on the internet you agree not to argue with me or drink milk.

     

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  4.  
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    Joe Smith, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:07pm

    Marketing

    The law firm doesn't even allow its own clients to say they're represented by the firm without permission.

    It is unusual for a law firm to be that embarrassed by its own clients.

     

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  5.  
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    Witty Nickname, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:28pm

    Gotcha

    You are not allowed to read this comment.

     

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  6.  
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    Anonymous, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:40pm

    Anon

    You just lost the game.

     

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  7.  
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    anthony, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:44pm

    ???

    that was stupid

    haha, ill botnet their link. enjoy the bandwidth.

     

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  8.  
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    brwyatt, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:50pm

    Show them how you feel

    use their contact form to tell them how pissed you are (anon of course, cause they would probably sue you for using your right to free speech without permission) http://www.cybertriallawyer.com/legal-matter....

    Put them as the "other party" and for how did you hear about them... well.... its all over the net how retarded they are, just pick one (or 5)....

     

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  9.  
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    CharlieHorse, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:52pm

    doh!

    I like milk. now what'll I drink with my cookies ?

    there should have been some disclaimer about the disclaimer ...

    hey, I know - how about a recursive disclaimer?!

     

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  10.  
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    D, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:57pm

    Amusing

    I definitely just looked at the source code. I'M GONNA GET SUED!

    Seriously though, the web site layout sucks, and John Dozier sounds like a total douchebag. He's recently been named a 'SUPER LAWYER'. Big f---ing deal.

    "Founder (1994) of first Venture Fund backed e-commerce technology company in Central Virginia. "

    HOLY SH--! CENTRAL VIRGINIA!

    "Founder of award-winning technology companies, he brings to the table a detailed understanding of the dynamics of the law and business."

    Yet, with statements like "We do not permit you to view such code..." he proves he's a complete moron. Yes John Dozier of Dozier Internet Law, P.C., you are a failure.

     

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  11.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 2:58pm

    Re: Anon

    Oh, you just suck.

     

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  12.  
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    Stan Nasty, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 3:05pm

    Re: embarrassed

    "It is unusual for a law firm to be that embarrassed by its own clients."

    Oh I don't know. What about whoever represented Michael Jackson or (totally unrelated) whoever represents paedophiles.

     

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  13.  
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    icepick314, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 3:08pm

    it's so exciting to do something so ILLEGAL!!

    next thing i'm gonna do is hold an armed robbery at my local bank!!!!

    they should sue MS and Firebox for having "View Source" button on the browser since it allows such violation of copyright....

     

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  14.  
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    Matt H, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 3:09pm

    Stupid Lawyers

    If they're so worried about their HTML and since they are 'Internet lawyers' You would think they would at least register their own domain name. dozierinternetlawPC.com

     

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  15.  
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    Zope, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 3:18pm

    Hmm..

     

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  16.  
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    Overcast, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 3:19pm

    Ok, I better not let my browser see it either!!! It might tell me!!

    No worries, I'll be sure to not look at ANY of it!! :)

     

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  17.  
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    Larry, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 3:23pm

    Re: It's out of embarrassment

    Goddamit!! I sitting here, reading away and ended up having to spit my milk out. It will take me hours to clean up this mess!!

    Of course, this is all my fault as I could have just held the milk in my mouth (and not swallowed ala Bill Clinton )?

     

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  18.  
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    CORE, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 3:23pm

    Big Idea!

    Let's pull together a team to copywrite the "copywrite symbol" and sue Dozier for using our logo and likeness.

     

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  19.  
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    Amethyst, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 3:52pm

    We need to copyright the @ sign and the . if they are not already copyrighted. Then we can sue idiot companies like that for having domain names. ;p

     

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  20.  
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    T.J., Oct 17th, 2007 @ 3:55pm

    That user agreement sounds like it was written by a 7th grader for a social studies project.

    we also are intimately familiar with the “hacking” industry.
    Quite the "industry" indeed (maybe they should look up the legal definition?).

    in addition, you should not make any copies of any part of this website in any way since we do not want anyone copying us.
    Again, excellent legal terminology. I would probably hire these guys, for my social studies project.

     

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  21.  
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    Dan, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 4:00pm

    Re: Big Idea!

    You'd have to put a copyright symbol on the copyright symbol...ad infinitum...

     

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  22.  
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    EP, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 4:10pm

    John Dozier - quality of his services?

    I think it would be wrong to allege that John Dozier is not a qualified technology attorney just because he allegedly attempts to restrict rights which are understood to be already well established through current era precedence, in common practice, and regarded almost unanimously (perhaps unanimously, except by him) as legal. On the other hand, his contentions might make a reasonable person suspect of the quality of his services. John Dozier or John Dozier ... you decide. EP

     

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  23.  
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    Jim, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 4:20pm

    technical question

    Do they allege they own the whole HTML code? What about the tags?

    Consider a hyperlink:

    A search engine we like

    Do they own: 'A search engine we like'?

    Do they think they own: all links to Yahoo with text 'A search engine we like'

    Or more, do they think they own: all links to Yahoo using the '' tag

    Could it be I am now violating their copyright by linking to Yahoo!, or only if my links says "A search engine we like"?


    Or does the copyright apply only to the whole webpage... meaning I cannot copy their entire source code and post it on myshadyservers.com as a phishing expedition?

     

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  24.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 4:33pm

    access driver the admin password or would that be wrong

     

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  25.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 4:36pm

    This dork just taking advantage of the Streisand effect... Don't feed the trolls...

     

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  26.  
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    Boris Jacobsen, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 4:50pm

    Hilarious Conclusion

    The sure way to police this is to replace the home page with some sort of EULA.

    'YOU MAY NOT VIEW THIS WEB SITE WITHOUT AGREEING TO THE FOLLOWING TERMS:

    1. YOU MAY NOT VIEW THE SOURCE CODE OF THIS SITE
    2. YOU MAY NOT SAVE ANY OF THE IMAGES FEATURED ON THIS SITE
    3. YOU MAY NOT USE THE COLOUR SCHEMES FEATURED ON THIS SITE ON YOUR OWN SITE...

    etc, etc, etc....

    34. ENTER YOUR NAME, EMAIL ADDRESS AND HOME ADDRESS. A PASSWORD WILL BE SENT TO YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS WHICH YOU MAY USE TO ENTER THIS WEB SITE"

    I wonder how many people visit that web site... if it's just for a law firm

     

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  27.  
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    Suehappycountry, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 4:56pm

    "Thank goodness for John and his team. These big law firms just don't understand how to handle technology litigation. With their trial record, technology expertise, and legal and business perspective, they have been a godsend...."

    — Internet Content Company CEO.

    You think they got permisson from "Internet Content Company CEO" to post this compliment? Anyone know a good internet lawyer?

     

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  28.  
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    Mike, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 5:23pm

    I saw their HTML code... will they find out???
    It sucks... will they fix it?
    Their agreement gets stupider by line and not linearly but exponentially.

     

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  29.  
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    Hoby, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 5:38pm

    legal implosion

    It looks like they'll be one of the first law firms to implode, crushed inside their own compulsive-obsessive zeal to proclaim pointless, impractical laws.

    I hope they have fun suing themselves.. on their way to the asylum.

     

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  30.  
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    Squidly, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 5:58pm

    I own my monitor...and all things on it.

    I guess their site breaks my copyright protection on all ASCII displayed on my monitor. Maybe I should sue...

     

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  31.  
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    HalS, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 6:02pm

    They defend spam!

    What do expect from the top-ranked "spam lawyer"?
    http://www.cybertriallawyer.com/commercial-email-spam

     

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  32.  
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    Doubletwist, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 6:15pm

    They own ALL the code?!?!

    Dozier Internet Law, P.C. has a lot of intellectual property on our site. For instance, we are the creators of all of the text on this website, and own the “look and feel” of this website. We also own all of the code, including the HTML code, and all content.

    Their site runs Zope. Does this mean they think they own all the code for that? I'm sure the maintainers and other users of Zope will be very distraught at this revelation. :)

    Oops, did I just quote from their site? Guess I'd better call my lawyers.

     

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  33.  
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    flo, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 6:17pm

    Isn't it just brand building? Using the Streisand effect to raise his firm's profile?
    Doozier should invest in a sport where there's lots of performance altering substance abuse and choose the most rehab-worthy athletes : the scandal-that-is-actually-just-free-press-for-the-sponsor thing actually works.
    Wait nm it's funnier as is.

     

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  34.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 6:25pm

    Computer Destruction?

    Do they realize that by viewing the site your computer already copied the code down through the internet and on to it's RAM and HDD? Do we have to destroy our PC's now?

     

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  35.  
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    Ned Lud, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 7:05pm

    Re: Show them how you feel

    I have followed your excellent advice and completed a 'Legal Matter Submission' form for the clockwork loonies who run that legal sideshow. I do hope that it brings a little ray of sunshine into their dreary grey lives.

     

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  36.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 7:27pm

    Re: It's out of embarrassment

    Damn.. and I like milk! :(

     

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  37.  
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    wheel, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 8:06pm

    Simple way around all this

    View their HTML in Google's cache instead of from their website. If they have a problem with that, they can sue the great googly woogly for republishing and distributing their info.

     

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  38.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 8:26pm

    I bet those retards didn't get Honda's permission to post a picture of their bike if they want to play that stupid game. You'd think the publicity of having someone link your shit would be great. Next you'll see them trying to sue the world for everyone using the same font as them. These people are not very bright.

     

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  39.  
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    Dave Barnes, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 9:11pm

    Do I have to comment on this?



    Do I have to comment on this?

     

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  40.  
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    avatar28, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 9:18pm

    “look and feel”

    Hmm,they own the “look and feel” of their site. Boy they're REALLY behind the times. Didn't the trial court explicitly say in the Apple v Microsoft case back in the early 90's that you can't copyright the “look and feel” of something? So that would only make them about, erm, 16 or so years behind current case law.

    Okay, no. I just looked it up on Wikipedia. That Apple v Microsoft ruling never came because Apple had already given MS a license for something or other that apparently covered it. However there was another case, Lotus v Borland, where the copyright claim based on a similar principle was thrown out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_v._Borland

     

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  41.  
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    anon, Oct 17th, 2007 @ 10:32pm

    just one more reason to shoot all the lawyers and start over

     

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  42.  
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    Sam, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 1:46am

    Re: It's out of embarrassment

    I used Opera's custom Style Sheets menu to display the page elements within the rendered page. Sadly, they "used" Adobe GoLive! for there page design.

    I think that Frontpage actually would be better than this was.

    You made no restrictions about chocolate milk. The chocolate cow union is pleased.

     

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  43.  
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    Tom Gunn, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 1:51am

    Your Joking ? or did miss that day in Law School ?

    see the law at work here > www.myblog.110mb.com

     

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  44.  
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    SamIam, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 1:54am

    Re: Bollocks

    I got the pictures of this dude > www.myblog.110mb.com

    at a stag party no less !

     

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  45.  
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    40, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 5:23am

    Oh Noes!

    Damn, I'm gonna get sued and it's all their fault!

    I just wanna view their page, but their web server keeps sending me all this "source code" that they own! Can't I just view it without getting all this source code?!

     

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  46.  
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    roflcopter, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 5:27am

    LOL

    I'm in your webs
    I'm readin your source.

     

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  47.  
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    oldnavy84, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 5:31am

    I'm no lawyer, but doesn't copyright only cover what one can COPY. I don't think you can copyright something and claim that means other people aren't allowed to see it. I have to wonder if these geniuses are actually lawyers. They seem to be making this up as they go.

     

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  48.  
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    Rick Falkvinge (pp), Oct 18th, 2007 @ 5:44am

    Copyright fraud

    These guys are actively participating in copyright fraud, i.e. asserting rights they do not have.

    Absolutely nothing in copyright law prevents somebody from looking at any source code.

    Copyright law deals with two specific rights: 1) authorizing who may make a DUPLICATE of a work, and 2) asserting that proper CREDIT is given for a work.

    A reverse engineering ban may be present in a civil contract, but pointing at copyright is just bollocks, and that points to the mountain-scale incompetence of this law firm.

     

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  49.  
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    Fern, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 5:50am

    Uhh they have errors in their code to top it all off?

    Look:



    I'm pretty sure that should say "class" not "cass," lmao owned

     

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  50.  
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    Kris Brixon, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 6:24am

    Simple Fix

    The site should just be a series of images or pdfs. That way the source code is either irrelevant or secured.

     

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  51.  
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    Lolcoaster, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 6:37am

    im in ur...

    [Insert joke here]
    [Insert punchline here]

     

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  52.  
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    magnus, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 7:52am

    this HAS to be a joke

    "OpenPopUpLite 2.0.1 action by Nate Baldwin, www.mindpalette.com, copyright 2004"

    They're using open source code in their contact form and claiming they own all the code?

    btw someone should tell them their cookie's (lol) which they think allow them to monitor all activity don't work too well (same as urchins) if the user blocks scripts.

     

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  53.  
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    Magnus, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 7:55am

    PS

    For more information contact John W. Dozier, Jr. at jwd@cybertriallawyer.com

    lol eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

     

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  54.  
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    Asmodeus, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 8:45am

    A ray of hope?

    I had a thought:

    Perhaps, and I know this is a long shot, but just MAYBE... they're trying to make this as ludicrous as possible in response to things like the NFL and MLB claiming that they "own" the stats to their game (in the case of MLB) or that you can't say the word "Superbowl" without their permission (The NFL). Perhaps this is their way of having someone take the concept and test it in court to point out just how over-blown and insane all this copyright bs is.

    As for their clients not being able to tell people who is representing them, two things :

    1.) That's 'patently' stupid, as you've just ruined your main source of free advertisement.

    2.) It's against ethics. An example : You assault me, I take you to court. From that point on, I should not speak to you except through your lawyer. If you cannot tell me who that person is, I have no way to get a hold of you, nor does my lawyer. (something my fiancee pointed out, she's not a lawyer, just someone with a law degree.)

    Just a thought :-

    Asmo

     

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  55.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 9:21am

    I am not suggesting you do this, but you could go here and upload some DRM'd MP3s and get them busted for distributing copyrighted songs.

    http://www.cybertriallawyer.com/acl_users/Examples/FileLibrary

    The upload feature works.

     

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  56.  
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    Steffan Antonas, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 10:01am

    A Bold, Ridiculous Marketing Strategy - Is this Fi

    This is the most interesting marketing strategy I've ever seen. [mocking chuckle] Step #1: Build A Web Site to tell people about your services. Step #2: Do everything you can to make it invisible to the people who don't know about you yet who may want to find you. Step #3: Do everything you can to make sure the people who DO know about you (your clients) don't tell anyone about you. Step #4: Make yourself famous by showing everyone how far you're willing to go in the name of trying to be invisible. Brilliant. This makes my day.

     

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  57.  
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    Alexander, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 10:42am

    Is this even a real law firm?

     

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  58.  
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    Mark, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 10:50am

    Not even by the most asininely strict copyright in

    ... could viewing HTML source be considered a copyright violation.

    Viewing copyrighted content is not copyright infringement, no matter what these guys say. Heck, if it were, you wouldn't even be allowed to read that book you just bought, because you'd be viewing material protected by copyright!

    So what's left? Trade secret status? Nope. They are willfully choosing to transmit that material in plain text to you, trusting that your browser will faithfully render it as intended. If they want it to be secret, they should not be sending it to you in the first place.

    That said, they do have legitimate copyright claims on their HTML code, and people who copy that code and use it elsewhere could potentially be prosecuted for copyright infringement, but there's absolutely no possible way they could nail you for it simply because you happened to view the HTML, even if they could somehow tell that was what you were doing.

     

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  59.  
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    mdmadph (profile), Oct 18th, 2007 @ 11:37am

    Re:

    How do people this incompetent even brush their teeth without sticking the brush up their damn nose?

    IANAL, but you could definitely upload DRM'ed files here and then claim that they're facilitating piracy. WTF, eh?

     

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  60.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 12:08pm

    They defend spammers. That tells me EVERYTHING I want to know about them. (in my own opinion, based on on common knowledge concerning the firm's practices)

     

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  61.  
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    JustMatt, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 12:13pm

    Why have an upload feature at all?

    It looks like example code lifted from some HTML 4.0 How To manual+CD

     

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  62.  
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    Jamie, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 12:26pm

    But the site design sucks?

    If someone is going to be as silly as this in claiming that viewing their HTML source is unauthorized then they should at least have a *very* nice website to offset the silliness. In this case, the site design sucks so bad they should be inviting users to submit HTML and CSS code to improve it.

     

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  63.  
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    Ham On The Bone, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 1:26pm

    Egad!

    Hmm, seems that they're hosting pr0n... Shame on the uploader (for not adding more!).

    On the homepage - "Click here to download the full article". Isn't that entrapment?

     

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  64.  
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    xman1, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 2:12pm

    Uhh, I thought they knew inet law?

    Reading that, I can clearly see that I would not want them as my internet lawyers if they don't even know proper internet law. Or maybe I am just being unreasonable? :)

    Sounds to me like someone just got their law degree and declared themselves internet lawyers just because they saw a web page once.

    -X

     

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  65.  
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    Anonymous Coward, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 3:32pm

    They say they own all the code?

    They have a Youtube video on their homepage, they surely don't own the code for the Youtube video.

     

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  66.  
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    Josh Smith, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:09pm

    The Site Sux anyway

    the site totally sux. why the hell would anyone want it. For internet litigation professions they could have spent a little money on the site.

     

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  67.  
    identicon
    Command4er, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:09pm

    haha

    I'm just gonna copy the whole source from the front page and email it to them lol

    I'll let you know if they try and sue me

     

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  68.  
    identicon
    Llian, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:17pm

    Morons......

    This is what happens when you let lawyers roam free. They should be kept in a cage, fed once a week and told no one loves them every day.

    But seriously, the yanks surely do lead the way for dumb-ass-ness at times.

     

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  69.  
    identicon
    matt, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:19pm

    someone please send me this url!!!

     

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  70.  
    identicon
    anonymous coward, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:19pm

    AHHHH!

    what really takes the cake, is that it doesn't look like they've copyrighted their site at all, I wasn't able to pull it up searching on copyright.gov. Just because you put the little symbol on your stuff, doesn't make it legal.

     

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  71.  
    identicon
    Joshua, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:32pm

    Yet they host copyrighted files

    You can find this out by simply going to, http://www.cybertriallawyer.com/Examples/FileLibrary/Files/Britney%20Spears%20-Gimme%20More.mp3

    T hey are hosting, and distributing unauthorized works by Britney Spears. This is a travesty, an actual law firm committing copyright infringement, the same crime they not so politely ask others not to commit against them.

    I think a maximum penalty judgment is deserved in this case.

     

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  72.  
    identicon
    Steve, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:33pm

    Re: Big Idea!

    Anybody have a website older than theirs? Send them a cease and desist letter demanding they remove the HTML tag (a less than sign, followed by HTML, followed by a greater than sign ... silly forum software, removing even a munged copy of the tag) from their website because you claim they copied it from your site.

     

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  73.  
    identicon
    kins, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:36pm

    Re: Yet they host copyrighted files

    Who do we report this crime to?

     

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  74.  
    identicon
    dug, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:39pm

    looks awful

    eww that site looks awful, i'd sue myself for using their code

     

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  75.  
    identicon
    some guy, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:43pm

    I'm gonna get sued...

    I'm pretty sure every web page that I've made has included body and html tags! does this mean that I've copied their ``intellectual" property?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  76.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:44pm

    Re: Yet they host copyrighted files

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  77.  
    identicon
    Turghen, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:44pm

    Re: Re: Yet they host copyrighted files

    I urge you all to to visit http://www.riaa.org/reportpiracy.php and report this internet law firm as true internet pirates for hosting those unauthorized copies.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  78.  
    identicon
    Crackbot, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:44pm

    Suprised...

    ... the site hasn't been defaced yet. Anyone given a shout out to the alt.hackers.malicious USENET newsgroup yet?

    *Wink* *Wink*

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  79.  
    identicon
    Axel, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 4:54pm

    Nobody asked for your permission or authorization. If you leave a book lying on the sidewalk (putlic domain like the internet), then you can't fault/forbid them for opening it an reading it. Duh!

     

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  80.  
    identicon
    bodoor, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 5:00pm

    Re: Re: It's out of embarrassment

    I thought it was Monica that didn't swallow? Otherwise there wouldn't have been any DNA evidence.. :p

     

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  81.  
    identicon
    Michael, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 5:30pm

    here's one opinion of them

     

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  82.  
    identicon
    Michael, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 5:32pm

    That is,

    the "super lawyer" aspect of their ego.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  83.  
    identicon
    konrad, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 6:00pm

    Page Info

    There was no restriction on using PageInfo in firefox and it had a few interesting things to say

    note page info on the privacy policy has this gem

    KEYWORDS = 'keywords go in here'

    also says the page was generated by Adobe GoLive.

    I suspect that means that they haven't viewed the source either.

     

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  84.  
    identicon
    Jessica, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 6:01pm

    Lawl

    http://www.cybertriallawyer.com/developers

    They claim to be web developers themselves, yet their page source absolutely sucks? I've seen better HTML from a 4 year old!

     

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  85.  
    identicon
    Liothen, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 6:48pm

    So they own all copyright in there code huh?

    Well a quick glance at the alleged forbidden source code. shows an interesting tid-bit in there javascript

    namely a copyright notice for guess what not them
    // OpenPopUpLite 2.0.1 action by Nate Baldwin, copyright 2004
    wow somehow they own this copyright, yet maintain the original authors name for completeness right?

    Im sure Adobe would be proud to have there name stomped on
    im sure they own the copyright to that aswell

    Even though the claims in there UA, are completely unfounded, but there makeing claims on others true copyrights. they should have sued the W3C for comming up with html.

    Who would hire these people?

     

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  86.  
    identicon
    anon, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 7:26pm

    Hmm... music...

    No, not the Britney Spears, but the Hillsong United might be music (not as if I've listened to it... ;)...it sure has the MIMEtype...

     

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  87.  
    identicon
    Anon, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 7:28pm

    An interesting perspective on the internet from Jo

    From 01/19/06: Government wrestles Google for search records

    An attorney who specializes in Internet law said that, at first glance, there doesn't seem to be a privacy issue involved in the government's request.

    "The only time privacy comes into play in my view is when there is personally identifiable information for activities attributable to a particular individual," said John W. Dozier Jr., managing partner at Dozier Internet Law PC in Glen Allen, Va.

    "My understanding is that the government isn't attempting to attribute any particular online activity to a particular person. They’re trying to understand a broad segment activities," added Dozier, who isn't involved in this case.

    If that is the case, this is a very common type of discovery procedure attorneys use to assemble information that is pertinent and would aide in a litigation, Dozier said. It would be a different matter if the government were requesting IP addresses, in which case concerns about individuals' privacy would be warranted, Dozier said.

     

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  88.  
    identicon
    Matt, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 7:46pm

    This is the Law Firm of Jackass, Douchebag & Fuck

     

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  89.  
    identicon
    omg hax!, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 8:06pm

    Re: Bollocks

    source code! oh no h@x! lol

    html>
    head>
    base href="http://www.cybertriallawyer.com/user-agreement/" />

    title>User Agreement/Privacy Policy

     

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  90.  
    identicon
    jammer mchammer, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 8:19pm

    Re: Amusing

    central virginia
    is that where the hillbillies are. that would explain it...inbreeding

     

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  91.  
    identicon
    James R., Oct 18th, 2007 @ 8:31pm

    Who in their right mind would hire these guys?

    And for that matter, who in their right mind would copy their ugly a** source code?

     

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  92.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 8:40pm

    Re: AHHHH!

    Actually, I think it does. Registering a copyright just makes it easier to prove.

     

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  93.  
    identicon
    Mike Smedley, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 8:51pm

    Extortionists?

     

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  94.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 9:34pm

    Are you dumber than we are?

    Wouldn't it me more direct to just say: "We at Dozier Internet Law, P.C. (the firm that cannot be named) are dumb, but we can use big words. If you are dumber than us, we welcome your business."

    BTW, this comment is owned by me, and if you read it you must pay be five cents. Plus another 5 for this sentence. Yes, and this one too, yes, and this one also.

     

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  95.  
    identicon
    ldgalaxy, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 9:36pm

    I thought Al Gore invented the Internet. Doesn't he own the copyright to all content on the www. That may prove to be another inconvenient truth!

     

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  96.  
    identicon
    Alexander Hamilton, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 9:39pm

    Remove all "EXAMPLE" code before doing something s

    They have ALL the ZOPE defaults remaining on their site - swap away folks:

    http://www.cybertriallawyer.com/Examples/

     

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  97.  
    identicon
    Werner, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 10:22pm

    What tards

    Holy crap... I actually cannot believe to what extent law firms in the US will go to. I also used the Firefox firebug to view the DOM which according to their notice is not deemed illegal.. and boy oh boy does that code suck... I don't blame them for not allowing people to see it.. For an "internet" specialist law firm one would at least expect them to have decent code. Flagrant use of style in the tags... I mean come on... that is HTML 101!!! tards!

     

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  98.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 18th, 2007 @ 10:50pm

    Just because you have a law degree ...

    ... doesn't mean you ain't bat-shit crazy.

     

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  99.  
    identicon
    J, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 12:21am

    I iz in ur source code, P0WNing your ass!

     

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  100.  
    identicon
    Jeff Jeffty Jeff (born on the 1st of Jeff, 19Jeftt, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 12:25am

    Don't want to use yer fskin code, it's crap anyway

     

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  101.  
    identicon
    Coldie, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 2:52am

    Click their google adds

    Just search for "Internet Law" on google, and then click their "Dozier Internet Law" add. If enough people do this, I think they will reconsider making such bullshit copyright demands.

     

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  102.  
    identicon
    Jakob Einar, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 2:54am

    I think they need to put Common Sence 101 and Social Ethics 101 as a main course in lawshool. Do lawyers need to check their brain along with their coat when they enter their workplace .. come on .. this is just stupid. Imagine how much this is costing the justice system. :P

     

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  103.  
    identicon
    adam, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 3:47am

    H4 H4
    1'm 1|/| uR Src r34D1N6 Ur C0d3

     

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  104.  
    identicon
    Joshua Rodman, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 3:58am

    Maybe they should brush up on copyright law

    Copyright controls essential distribution and duplication rights. Copyright has no say what I can do with the book I bought. I can burn it or mulch it or read it or give it to friends. What I cannot do is duplicate and disseminate copies. It's called Copyright for a reason, the right to make copies! Duh.

    So the firm, who has already duplicated and transmitted their html code to my computer, so that it is in my computer's ram already, and on my computer's disk in the cache already, is trying to say I can't read it. Nevermind that I have (using tools) already *read it*. Copyright does not cover what I may do with the content that they have willingly transmitted to me. My browser requested the HTML; their server acceeded and sent the HTML. The transmission has already occurred, and I have the right to do anything with I please, save make and retransmit copies, or possibly make a public performance out of it.

    This would be merely silly, and not be so embarassing, except that this organization purports to be a law firm.

     

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  105.  
    identicon
    Adam, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 4:05am

    Re: It's out of embarrassment

    Seriously I was finishing my milk just before I got to 'or drink milk.'

     

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  106.  
    identicon
    Deathshadow, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 4:34am

    Re: It's out of embarrassment

    Yup. No doctype, layout is broken in large fonts due to stuff like using twenty odd   in a row - and any web developer that doesn't know what's wrong with:








    Needs to do the world a favor and back away from the keyboard and take up knitting.

    They also do NOT own the rights to all of the code since they are calling Urchin, GeoTrust, etc.

    Basically, they've made the /FAIL/ at intarweb club.

     

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  107.  
    identicon
    Amused, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 5:36am

    These people are REALLY dumb...

    Everyone who goes to the site is by definition downloading the HTML. So no one can visit the site without committing copyright infringement? Why even have a site?

     

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  108.  
    identicon
    Cubbs, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 5:44am

    Re: Re: embarrassed

    "whoever represents paedophiles."

    How would you feel if you where charged with being a paedophile, even though you know that you're not guilty. How would you protect yourself from (insane penalties, 30+years) if all lawyers were to embarased to represent you?

    Recent aqquitals show that even though you're proven not guilty, you will still be marked as a paedophile by most of the community, and thereby have your life ruined.

    Everyone should have the right to legal representation, regardless of how biased the community might be towards whatever alledged crime(s) you may or may not have commited.

    You sir, are a morron.

     

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  109.  
    identicon
    Pete Hobson, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 6:40am

    Is this illegal

    I wonder out loud if its illegal to use code rather than the stated 'view source' 'method :) here i grab the whole fornt page and pop it into a text box... in onle line of code :)

    http://www.freesome.com/node/233

    I wonder who would be infringing in this case - me for writing the code... oyu for viewing my blog - or maybe my host!!

    wowsers

     

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  110.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 6:41am

    All your base are belong to us

     

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  111.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 7:04am

    Re: Show them how you feel

    If you really want to show them how you feel, send old Johnny an email at jwd@cybertriallawyer.com. The e-mail address is publicly posted at
    http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?url=cybertriallawyer.com, and appears to be the main jerk's work account.

     

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  112.  
    identicon
    ss, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 7:35am

    What about archive.org?

     

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  113.  
    identicon
    Nik, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 7:44am

    Errr, what?

    By using our website, you agree to the following:

    At Dozier Internet Law, P.C. we do not simply post a “legal sounding” user agreement. That is because we customize every one of our user agreements to fit the specific needs of our clients

    Sounds very "legal sounding" to me, but if you can't be arsed to customise your own agreement, how do you expect people to take you seriously?

     

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  114.  
    identicon
    APS, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 8:12am

    Really? Who wants the HTML?

    I don't know why one would even want to look at such a slapdash, shoddily built site, from an HTML side. There's a dozen paragraph tags that say:
    cass="bodyB"

    Unless Mama Cass is a new sort of attribute, the people are morons.

    Plus, if that were the case, my company could sue a half dozen other companies for stealing our "look and feel" -- something *OUR* legal dept. told us we couldn't.

     

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  115.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 8:23am

    "Our firm has handled 252 legal matters in the past two years in the following areas with a special emphasis on blogger misconduct."

    We are all getting sued!

     

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  116.  
    identicon
    epic, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 8:29am

    the internet law firm

    doesn't have an email address or a clue

     

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  117.  
    identicon
    Mephron, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 8:48am

    Wow

    I guess you can still get Delusional Idiocy In A Can in some places.

     

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  118.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 9:08am

    Examples folder removed

    The Examples folder has been removed: it looks like they do some maintenance after all

     

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  119.  
    identicon
    vinewsreader, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 9:16am

    Guess I can no longer use curl as my web browser...

     

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  120.  
    icon
    Chris Charabaruk (profile), Oct 19th, 2007 @ 9:22am

    Insert lolcats here

    Im on ur website, viewin ur htmls...

     

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  121.  
    identicon
    wtf?, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 9:38am

    right.

    wow. i dont know. to me thats just selfish and conceited.
    I'm suing the next person that looks at my face. because its my property. MINE!!! all mine!
    i hope copies of their HTML get posted everywhere. It would probably make an intresting wallpaper for a tea room.

     

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  122.  
    identicon
    Sgt. Guffy, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 10:49am

    Me Too

    Now I am beginning to understand what "Corporate Fascism" means.
    Heil Money!

     

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  123.  
    identicon
    barr, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 10:53am

    their javascript





    = 0) && (bAgent.indexOf("Mozilla/3") >= 0) && (bAgent.indexOf("Mac") >= 0))
    return true; /* dont follow link */
    else return false; /* dont follow link */
    }
    CSStopExecution=false;
    function CSAction(array) {return CSAction2(CSAct, array);}
    function CSAction2(fct, array) {
    var result;
    for (var i=0;i

    // -->


    PRRRRRRRA!!!!!

     

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  124.  
    identicon
    Drew, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 11:00am

    Copy-Pase infringement

    You know, they could even sue you for copy-pasting part of their user agreement.

    "For instance, we are the creators of all of the text on this website, and own the “look and feel” of this website. We also own all of the code, including the HTML code, and all content...."

    "...In addition, you should not make any copies of any part of this website in any way since we do not want anyone copying us."

     

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  125.  
    identicon
    Quid-Pro-Quoe, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 11:17am

    Public Record

    There is one problem with this argument...
    Once legal action takes place, EVERYTHING is entered into PUBLIC RECORD, which means, I can point out that So-and-so is a client of this law firm, reference the legal action in the Public Record, and BINGO, they loose...
    The very minute they sue someone over viewing their HTML source, the same thing happens. They loose their rights to protect the source from view because it would be entered into the PUBLIC RECORD...
    But then, any 2-bit lawyer would know that...so I wouldn't hire these bozos if they don't even know what they are doing...

     

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  126.  
    identicon
    joe, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 12:43pm

    You cannot look at their source code because then you are copying it into your BRAIN!

    so...
    SUE the law firm for copyright infringement for 'making available' their html source code!

     

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  127.  
    identicon
    MrGonz--Internet Content Company CEO, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 1:11pm

    Re:

    I wonder why the quoted person did not allow the use of their name? Maybe the person has copyrighted their own name! Or maybe they didn't want to be embarrassed by just self-sourced reviews!

     

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  128.  
    identicon
    Asigot, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 2:06pm

    html

    I normaly add a bit at the top of my code saying use it if you want but dont copy it whole IE with graphics.

    They changed the user agrement as well, it just says use not view etc now... power to the people !

     

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  129.  
    identicon
    D, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 6:54pm

    RE: html

    They didn't change the user agreement I just looked at it. It's still the same stupidity.

     

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  130.  
    identicon
    dl0711, Oct 19th, 2007 @ 7:05pm

    Re: Law Firm Uses Copyright Claim To Say You Can't

    I think that he/she is trying to make a point with the RIAA/MPAA and the whole copyright-infringement issues..

    this is what i think..

    he is saying copyright-infringement due to the fact that when you View the sit it gets saved as a file(s) in your Internet temp folder.. therefore its being copied and thats called copyright-infringement

     

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  131.  
    identicon
    Ineedof CreditHelp, Oct 21st, 2007 @ 7:37pm

    WTF??

    "An ISP obtained a $1 Billion judgment in Iowa Federal Court and the client retained us to attempt to defend subsequent efforts at collecting and to defend individuals sued."

    I wonder if they will work with me to stop the bill collectors...do they do credit repair work?

    :?

     

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  132.  
    identicon
    SillyValley, Oct 21st, 2007 @ 9:06pm

    Re: Re: Law Firm Uses Copyright Claim To Say You C

    This whole thing has been one way to get a whole lot of hits. No one cares what geeky bloggers say

     

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  133.  
    identicon
    Raam, Oct 22nd, 2007 @ 1:12am

    Browsers rendering the site can be illegal

    Browsers rendering the site can be illegal.
    I think thats very correct.
    So Microsoft and Mozilla should not render their site.
    Isn't that cool

     

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  134.  
    identicon
    mojo, Oct 23rd, 2007 @ 2:23pm

    Ah, those Legal Eagles, gotta love 'em.

    Obviously, they should stop blasting their proprietary HTML over the innernuts, eh?

     

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  135.  
    identicon
    random8r, Oct 24th, 2007 @ 4:39am

    Linguistics

    If one linguistically analyses the wording of that "terms and conditions", one realises that it's not even in sync with itself. Their thoughts aren't logically and systematically rendered OR realised.

    I find it funny that they infer that because they own the copyright of the source code, you can't view it, but they own the copyright of the content, and apparently you can view THAT.

    I think it's ironic that they put their source code on a publicly available server... how do they know that we'll be viewing it on a browser? what if I use unix's curl command to view it? I might actually prefer reading web pages as HTML source... there's a lot of assumption there ;-)

    In fact, it's impossible to read the file WITHOUT copying it to your computer... 100%, verbatim, duplication type... erm... copying. That's just stupid. lol. What idiots.

     

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  136.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 28th, 2007 @ 9:14am

    >Re: Amusing by jammer mchammer on Oct 18th, 2007 @ 8:19pm
    >?central virginia
    >is that where the hillbillies are. that would explain .
    >it...inbreeding

    Wow, Jammer! You're so smart!! I'm impressed!!

     

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  137.  
    identicon
    Thermal Ions, Nov 2nd, 2007 @ 9:45am

    RIAA's next attorney ??

    Better be careful if you decide to 'begin receiving the security and power of the Dozier Copyright Infringement Warning Button!!'
    "We make no representations, express or implied, concerning the functionality, security, or technical integrity of the button, ..."
    I found the DCIWB functional - that was to give me a good laugh that "Super John" thinks anyone could believe such crap.

    As to their User Agreement:

    "As you may know, you can view the HTML code with a standard browser. We do not permit you to view such code since we consider it to be our intellectual property protected by the copyright laws."
    The RIAA really need to retain these guys. "Super John" would rake the dollars in for them by sueing everyone who listens to any music cd's they purchased. PR victory for the RIAA too - No more unpopular and expensive p2p lawsuits required, they can simply bug your house/car/workplace to prove you listened to the music.

    "We do not permit our website to be 'spidered', or a program run through the website, for purposes of obtaining email addresses to be used in commercial email campaigns."
    You know, the sort of things our clients do.

    "Although we have very high levels of security in place, we also are intimately familiar with the “hacking” industry."
    We bill them monthly. But we call them clients when we do that.

    "Dozier Internet Law is a one stop online attorney, web attorney, internet attorney, and website attorney."
    Exactly, who would make more than one stop at "Bull" Dozier's website.

    Anyone else noticed that Dozier Internet Law's acronym is DIL

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  138.  
    identicon
    chris, Nov 23rd, 2007 @ 10:19am

    here's there ow so precion source!!





    Internet Lawyer, Trademark Infringement Lawyer, Domain Name Dispute Specialist!





     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  139.  
    identicon
    Joe Joe Jr., Nov 27th, 2007 @ 11:10pm

    Re: It's out of embarrassment

    Your reply was sweet. The sarcasm at the end was a nice touch. Hating on tables was pretty lame, though, but most "web designers" nowadays do, so I'll give ya some latitude. Peace.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  140.  
    icon
    Ronald J Riley (profile), Nov 28th, 2007 @ 8:50am

    Just a reminder that he and his client received much more than they bargained for after sending some of their inane threats to www.InventorEd.org and also a blogger. See www.CyberTrialLawyer-SUCKS.com and www.InventorEd.org/caution/inventor-link/ for an example of how I think that threats of SLAPP actions should be dealt with. Personally I think that leaving all those sucks domains available says volumes about Dozier's competence.

    Just do a Google search for Bull Dozier Law, and you will see that his new SUCKS web presence rates higher than his own web site.

    By the way Mike, I am glad to see that you finally are on the right side of an issue. And as you can see, even though I think you a dead wrong about IP issues in general I have been easy on you. The Dozier Bull.... website demonstrates this in spades.

    Ronald J. Riley,

    President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
    Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
    Washington, DC
    Direct (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 9 pm EST.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  141.  
    identicon
    Hieronymous Maximus, Nov 30th, 2007 @ 4:17am

    Breathtaking stupidity ... but good for a laugh!

    This is a spoof, isn't it?

    Let's put it this way: If I had a web-related legal issue, CyberTrialLawyer (Dozier and Dozier ... sound like a bunch of sleepy dwarves!) wouldn't even make last place on my list of places to seek help. These twits are so awful, they're actually quite funny.

    Oh ... yes, I pulled copies of the HTML ... and it IS awful. Dozie, old fella, have no fear of anyone copying "your" HTML ... you need a better web designer. And as for look-and-feel, aside from you being YEARS behind the (legal) times, several of the basic tenets of design/presentation have been completely ignored on your site. So, Johno, you're quite safe there. Your poor investment will not be cloned!

    You are paranoid, poorly-informed, breathtakingly arrogant and should perhaps stick to chasing ambulances for a living ... perhaps not. Retire. It'd be kinder all round.

    Wow.

    Good luck!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  142.  
    identicon
    Hieronymous Maximus, Nov 30th, 2007 @ 4:28am

    On being a Pioneer ...

    Johno, you punt yourself as a pioneer in Internet Law ... hmmm ... remember, not all pioneers come from the deeper pools of talent and true grit. Successful pioneers are those who make a positive contribution to development.

    Something suggests to me that your contribution is more along the lines of black humor ... dry wit. But without the wit or the humor.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  143.  
    identicon
    Fred. Virot, Feb 7th, 2008 @ 9:11am

    Re: It's out of embarrassment

    you're right... Their code is worth hidding!
    I had a lot of fun running the W3C HTML validator on both the legal notice and their home page...
    results are, respect. 63 and 68 errors...
    I hope they work better than their web designer's work.
    I hope they comply with law better than their web designer comply with standards and good practicies and state of the art...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  144.  
    identicon
    Jon Harvey, Feb 11th, 2008 @ 1:29pm

    This is absolutely hilarious

    I wonder if they will sue my arse off for letting my browser "see" thier website... this has to be a joke right???

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  145.  
    identicon
    marie, Sep 11th, 2008 @ 9:02am

    im hot

    ohh yeah

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  146.  
    identicon
    озеленение москва, Sep 22nd, 2008 @ 1:45pm

    Oh yeah

    Internet 2009. Good post about "This is absolutely hilarious"

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  147.  
    identicon
    Jerry, Aug 6th, 2009 @ 1:34am

    Re: Stupid Lawyers

    Link not working. Use this

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  148.  
    identicon
    MAC, Sep 26th, 2010 @ 11:31pm

    If you want to be shining, please choose our MAC, they are worth your attention. You will be the center of the crowd! MoreMAC cosmetics which have the best quality but the lowest price are waiting for you to pick up at our online store. We will never let you down.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  149.  
    identicon
    MAC Cosmetics Cheap, Oct 19th, 2010 @ 9:23pm

    You re really talented. Your blog looks so beautiful, I like it very much.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  150.  
    identicon
    MAC Cosmetics Cheap, Oct 20th, 2010 @ 12:27am

    You re really talented. Your blog looks so beautiful, I like it very much.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  151.  
    identicon
    Carla, Oct 26th, 2010 @ 10:53am

    no source view

    Why doesn't someone sue Microsoft and get them to take that function out of their browser. Then pursue all other browser creators and get them to take that function out also.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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