Microsoft: When We Said Microsoft Vista Capable, We Didn't Mean For All The Important Stuff

from the false-advertising dept

Microsoft has now been sued, after letting PC makers certify their computers as "Windows Vista Capable" for new purchasers -- only to find out that most of Vista's advertised features don't actually work on some of those machines. Instead, to be labeled as Vista Capable, the machines just had to reach a bare minimum of feature support -- much less than what many people were led to believe by the "Vista Capable" certification. While Microsoft may have followed the letter of the law in the way this was pitched, it still makes for an extremely poor marketing strategy, because the only thing it's likely to do is piss off a lot of people who wanted to buy Microsoft's latest operating system and now can't.


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    Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 8:36am

    You know that the salespeople at Best Buy, Dell and elsewhere FULLY explained this to their customers, right?

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 1:52pm

      Re:

      doubt.. everytime i ask a semi intelligent question about a computer model they don't know jack shit... its like talking to an 8 year old

       

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      MadJo (profile), Apr 4th, 2007 @ 3:04pm

      Re:

      You know that the salespeople at Best Buy, Dell and elsewhere FULLY explained this to their customers, right?

      I'm not sure what your experience is with salespeople, but my experience is that they know very little of the machines they are selling.


      Incidentally, does Dell even have salespeople? I thought they don't sell through retail?

       

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    dorpus, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 8:41am

    Sucks ass

    I was unfortunately forced to buy a vista machine after my last PC died. There are many more "security" features that keep popping up on the screen, which are hard to turn off. By default, the "cleartype" technology that makes everything fuzzy is turned on. It has to be turned off in at least 2 different obscure settings, and even then it's not completely gone. Last night, I finally figured out how to make it stop popping up "redial network connection" that kept popping up every few minutes. The menus all look like a kindergarten version, with huge icons, and as far as anyone knows, it's impossible to make it stop displaying huge icons. The windows explorer is less convenient, having removed the "up directory" button, and forcing the root directory to be the Desktop.
    It does not know how to deal with lower-case "jpg" versus upper-case "jpg" extensions, so that can only be changed manually from the shell. The "sidebar" feature that they are so proud of is just a waste of screen space -- it adds nothing to the task manager bar. I turned it off by removing it from the registry.

     

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      Travis, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:33am

      Re: Sucks ass

      Funny, pretty much all your negatives about vista are what I like. I love that cleartype is active from the start, it looks great on my 37 inch flat-screen monitor. I love the side-bar, and have most my windows re-sized to leave visible. The new exploring is much better designed for efficiency. I like that I can easily change the view/types for the directories, and the new Extra-Large icons are great for browsing through media.

      Adobe Photoshop opens all my graphic files, no matter how I case the extensions. Vista installed in next to no-time, with little prompting from me. The dreamscape background is a great feature. (Yes, I know I can do the same with VLC, but I like that Vista automatically takes care of it.) I haven't had a single virus, worm, etc. Nor a single problem with ANY hardware/software.
      Travis

       

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      GVDoubleE, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:48pm

      Re: Sucks ass

      You're a fool!

      "The menus all look like a kindergarten version, with huge icons, and as far as anyone knows, it's impossible to make it stop displaying huge icons. The windows explorer is less convenient, having removed the "up directory" button, and forcing the root directory to be the Desktop."

      I'm not real sure which "HUGE" icons you're referring to, considering Windows doesn't actually have any menus, other than the start bar, which you can change the properties of, so that you don't have to use large icons...

      And, regarding having removed the "up directory" button goes... look at your freakin' address bar, fool! Yeah, they got rid of the up directory button... But, the also added a much more functional tool, which allows you to go up multiple levels at a time... So, quit acting like an old person, and take 5 minutes to understand your new software, before you decide that you hate it. We live in an "adapt or be replaced" society... So, get out of the way, because you seem rather reluctant to adapt.

       

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    James, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 8:42am

    Its not Microsoft's fault..

    ..these ppl are dumb. A computer is NOT an appliance, ask better questions if you expect better outcome.

     

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      Extreme Centrist, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:13am

      Re: Its not Microsoft's fault..

      Who's dumb? "It's not an appliance; people should ask" is ridiculous. Should they ask, "Does 'Vista compatible' really mean Vista compatible?"

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 8:43am

    Damn. Double Damn

     

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    Nasty Old Geezer, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 8:57am

    And this news....

    How? MS has been low-balling hardware requirements since Windows 3.0. Remember when a mouse was "optional" according to the requirements list?

     

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      Dave, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:06am

      Re: And this news....

      I had no trouble navigating Win 3.1 without a mouse. Honestly, I can handle most WinXP navigation without a mouse with relative ease, as well as MS Office applications.

       

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    Michael Kohne, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 8:59am

    Vista Capable

    I have to say that while MS & the system vendors can't be allowed to get away with false advertising, I can NOT fathom the mind of someone who buys a copy of Vista in the first couple of months, and expects it to work well.

    When, in the history of MS, has the first releases of ANYTHING not had problems? When has any OS or major app release not needed multiple patches in the first few months? When have the PC vendors not bent the truth about what is needed to run an OS?

    I'd love to buy a new computer (I'm salivating for dual cores), but I won't do it until Vista has been allowed to settle out for a few more months.

    I just don't get why the public in general doesn't seem to learn from history - brand new stuff, ESPECIALLY computers, has problems when first introduced. That's the reality. Why don't people know this?

     

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      Wizard Prang, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 1:17pm

      How quickly we forget...

      ...that it took two years to get XP right (SP2).

      We never learn, do we?

       

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      ConceptJunkie (profile), Apr 4th, 2007 @ 1:42pm

      Re: Vista Capable

      > I can NOT fathom the mind of someone who buys a copy of Vista in the first couple of months, and expects it to work well.

      Someone who doesn't know much about computers and has seen _any_ Microsoft marketing. That's their target customer.

      The fact of the matter is, as with most things, unless you are educated well above average as a computer customer, you are going to get ripped off.

       

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      Rog, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 2:22pm

      Re: Vista Capable

      Just buy a Mac!

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:03am

    I bought a Vista Ready laptop, and one of my brothers bought Windows Vista Ultimate upgrade to put on the laptop. I am using it right now, it works just fine.The laptop is a Gateway.

     

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    Derek Blonigen, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:13am

    Vista

    Vista was in beat testing for over 2 Years before it was released to the public. We have been using it the whole time. Vista is a very stable OS. If people are going to be cheap and buy the $399 Dell/E-Machine computer (running Vista) you deserve any and all problems you have with Vista. If you buy a machine that is designed to run Vista with all of its bells and whistles, you will be pleasantly surprised at how well it runs and how easy it is to use. People need to get off of the "Let's Bash Microsoft" kick. Almost every problem that is brought up about Vista, isn't Vista. The System Builders and Software/Component makers didn't properly test their products prior to releasing them. I personally run Vista Ultimate on my home pc and Vista Business on my Laptop. I haven't had 1 problem with either of them. I can game as good, if not better, on Vista then I could on XP Pro.

     

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      Sir Woogie, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:21am

      Re: Vista

      I think the complaint is around the "qualifiers."

      People in the tech field all know of the "It'll run, but..." around general OS and hardware pairing. Joe Sixpack talking with a BestBuy blue-shirt-idiot will get a half-ass line, and then be ticked when his shiny steel beauty doesn't measure up to actually run the "cool" things in Vista.

      There is something to buyer beware. However, MS and other hardware vendors are being pretty sleazy in their push to Vista by doing this. They all know better, they're just doing this to get the upgrade path money flowing.

       

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        jt, Jan 4th, 2008 @ 7:36pm

        Re: Re: Vista

        i will tell you someting vista is so bad it will not run any thing out there i have been a tec for 21 years and this is the worst i have seen you say you can play games in vista what games are they name 5 i do not think you can

         

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      Human Number 532-38-5594, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:29am

      Re: Vista

      Interesting, because on a high-end computer, vista was very unstable and sucked for me, including the 2 years I spent beta testing it and the few months I've had the "retail" version. It sucks. The "security" on it doesn't help, and it's really fuzzy. It crashed a few times immediately after installing it. I prefer options that work, so I stick with non-microsoft products. I just wanted to see what all the hype was about for vista.

       

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        Betaflame, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:27pm

        Re: Re: Vista

        you spent 2 years beta testing and $200 to see what all the hype was about? I call shinanigans on you sir.

         

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          Black Ize (profile), Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:44pm

          Re: Re: Re: Vista

          I am one of the lucky few (thousand) that has not paid for any of Microsofts programs in over 8 years. The Action Pack from MS is only three hundred bucks and you get about $3000.00 worth of MS software including Office 2007 Pro, and Vista. Sign up on http://partner.microsoft.com and you too can get the Action Pack. Very easy way to get it all and only pay $300.00, just don't sell any of the licenses. Use them just for you.

           

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:30am

      Re: Vista

      So you must be Billy boys personal assistant.

       

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:45am

      Re: Vista

      "Vista was in beat testing for over 2 Years before it was released to the public. We have been using it the whole time. Vista is a very stable OS."

      Vista is far from stable and the only reason it stays running for any length of time at all is because 90% of the apps you might run on it are not compatible.

      I too have been using vista (longhorn) for years, but never on a primary machine. It's far to flaky and incompatible to be used in the real world. Just the memory issues make it impossible to be implemented in a serious business environment without causing the IT staff to have a coronary. As a test, we implemented a single box into general staff hands. The result was spending 10x more time on that box then all the rest running in the office due to incompatibility issues and general instability in the print spool. After everything was said and done, that system is STILL causing us problems.

      Vista is for people who don't know anything about third party software and want something that looks cool. It is a horrible waist of memory when you are working on large projects, the graphics are slow and hardware intensive, and the functionality that was added is just filler for the most part. We will not be going to Vista or the new office in the near future, and we are actually looking to start phasing MS products out (starting with office) in the next year or two.

       

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      Dale, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:50pm

      Re: Vista

      Sir, you have a dreaded day to come when you meet lawman Murphy

       

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      MadJo (profile), Apr 4th, 2007 @ 3:14pm

      Re: Vista

      Okay, let's put it this way:
      What if your car says "Extra-Power diesel capable" (or whatever Shell is calling it) and you fill up the tank with that stuff, and suddenly you find that while your car runs... it only run about 60 km per hour?
      Whereas with regular diesel you could drive at least 120 km per hour?

      It would be false advertising, wouldn't it?

      You would expect it to go even better, because it says it's capable of using extra-power diesel.

      Now apply this to the computers.

      It says "Windows Vista capable" on it. You see all that advertising about the Wow-factor with Vista. And you want that too, and figure "Okay, I have a Vista capable machine, it should run that too, wouldn't it?"
      But then you find out that yes, you can have Vista on it, but without the Wow-factor. If you're honest, you'd be pissed off, wouldn't you? Because you've been fed false advertising.

      Now, whose fault it is, I don't really care. However, I do know that MS provided the stickers, and provided the minimum system-requirements.
      It's all about expectations not being met here.

       

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 5:22pm

      Re: Vista

      I must say that you must be a rich snob, if buying a $399 machine is being cheap...

       

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    Yet Another anonymous coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:22am

    Anti-Vista

    Build you own PC and load Ubuntu. You can match the $399 eMachine price easily. Google for how to load flash and media players, it isn't hard to do. Then you can have your music, movies, and p..n that you want (or think you need).

    If your are game addicted, then you are going to have to load XP anyway ;-)

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:29am

    Way off...

    Like Michael was saying Vista was released with major issues that will not be resolved until they release a patch. MS is an alright company in my book. They are scrutinized by everyone because of their success. For what they are tasked to do they do a pretty good job.

    Think about this: Make a product that works for millions of people on millions of different and unknown configurations. This product needs to work nearly 100% of the time. It also has to work with millions of different kinds of people (cultures, languages etc..) And do all this within 2 years.

    This is no simple task by any means. I don’t think there is a company out there that has this kind of pressure. Vista does and will have its problems for months to come. But just as XP was initially a POS, Vista is also. (I used Win 2K pro for a few years after XP was released for this reason.) It’s slow, has many odd issues and has many "extras" that are completely useless. Once again, the product is designed for the world. They did and are doing a good job under the circumstances. If you hate MS it’s because you are jealous of their success.

     

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      Mitch the Bitch, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:17am

      Re: Way off...

      XP was extremely stable upon release. Driver availablity was a concern for some but most were able to get by just fine using the MS native drivers.

      XP was ready but YOU felt YOU needed to wait cause "XP was just an upgrade to W2K" in your ignorant mind, and YOU felt YOU needed to tow the geek line because YOURE so smart and all who used XP were so dumb.

      Ill bet you didnt broadcast to the world when you did upgrade to XP as you felt neccasary to do when XP was first released? YOU felt the world needed YOUR advice then just as now.

      We all got along just fine despite the millions of 12 yr olds telling us differently, just as we will now. Sadly we have to hear the same (now 17 yr olds) spewing the same nonsense once again.

      And only a complete retard would suggest any distro of Linux as an XP replacement. If YOU really believed this you would never have had XP installed on your machine to begin with, so just stfu about it already we know the truth and it has little to do with PC and everything to do with narccism.

       

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        Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:59am

        Re: Re: Way off...

        "...everything to do with narccism."
        Read your post and you will find the amusing irony of this quoted section.

        BTW, I use Linux almost exclusively. Then again I am not a gamer (anymore). Now there are definite things that run better on Windows... I just don't remember them currently. I believe you will find that scenario in every domain.

        Why oh why must we live in a world of fanboys?

         

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        Dewy, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:28am

        Re: Re: Way off...

        Xp was stable upon distribution? Are you reading what your saying? Maybe you need a history lesson, and I'm just to busy to give you a complete one... google these phrases

        xp SP2 released
        Unplug & pray
        XP opens all ports by default

        or... windows messenger, and ignore the windows live messenger responses... because they are part of a cover-up tactic to reduce the hits on the flaws... and focus the hits on a success.

        Just the last app there... the "built in feature" to windows that allowed spam and popups thru often before you could get you machine configured. Couple that with the remote desktop features and "live assistance" that was poorly secured and not only was it unstable, but it was dangerous... in that Personal Identity theft sorta way.

        The FBI got involved on the UPNP service and sent out bulletins for everyone to kill that function due to the threats it presented to secure information.

        XP Stable on release hahaha, no need to read the comics today... got my laugh right there.

         

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        kb48, Apr 5th, 2007 @ 2:37pm

        Re: Re: Way off...

        Why so hostile - and why discount the views of the younger generation? I can give you nearly 40 years on that 12 year old benchmark and I liked XP - but then I thought linux was for geeks. I used to fix my own cars but now I want it to 'just work'. Linux does just that and you don't have to splash out on a new computer every couple of years to use it. I'm not a programmer or a script kiddie or a geek, I just like to have some control over what goes on in my machine. PCLinuxOS does it for me as an XP replacement - I don't miss it one bit.

         

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:33am

      Re: Way off...

      "They are scrutinized by everyone because of their success."
      "If you hate MS it’s because you are jealous of their success."

      You forgot to add the equally logical, "if you don't like MS, it is because yo mama so fat.

      Some people do not like Microsoft because of the products, service, and behavior of Microsoft. Indeed there are people who hate Microsoft for unknown reasons (because perhaps, it is popular in certain circles to do so).

      However, the later group's logic is the same as the fanboys who make such absurd assertions as the original poster did.

       

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        What-ever, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 1:10pm

        Re: Re: Way off...

        And then there are those of us who hate M$ because we were programmers who lived through the anti-trust suit and understood full well that M$ was trying to control/destroy the open-source community and Java with their pitifully veiled J++ J# .NETJUNK etc.

         

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          Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 1:53pm

          Re: Re: Re: Way off...

          "And then there are those of us who hate M$ because we were programmers who lived through the anti-trust suit and understood full well that M$ was trying to control/destroy the open-source community and Java with their pitifully veiled J++ J# .NETJUNK etc."

          I feel for you brother. Well as much as I can sympothize.

          I use Python and so can't be bothered with that.

           

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      From the Dark Side, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:44am

      Re: Way off...

      "Think about this: Make a product that works for millions of people on millions of different and unknown configurations. This product needs to work nearly 100% of the time. It also has to work with millions of different kinds of people (cultures, languages etc..) And do all this within 2 years. "

      I'm not surprised I'm the only person who thinks this way but... a company like utopic one you discribe above DOES exist, I'm sure I'll get 5hit for this, but the Apple Computer company fills all of those obligations AND on a much more regular, shorter timescale. Anyody who is complaining about their computers not working well or OSs or whatever, if you're on a PC, your problems will be solved on a Mac. No, I dont work for Apple, but I am a 18yr Mac user who is understands that you get what you pay for.

       

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        Casper, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:50am

        Re: Re: Way off...

        "I'm not surprised I'm the only person who thinks this way but... a company like utopic one you discribe above DOES exist, I'm sure I'll get 5hit for this, but the Apple Computer company fills all of those obligations AND on a much more regular, shorter timescale. Anyody who is complaining about their computers not working well or OSs or whatever, if you're on a PC, your problems will be solved on a Mac. No, I dont work for Apple, but I am a 18yr Mac user who is understands that you get what you pay for."

        There are a few problems with MAC's that they would have to get past to become a viable option for most companies/people. Right now they work great for people who are not overly computer oriented and want something that just works. The problem rears it's head when people start expecting it to do other things and be more upgradeable. Granted in the last few years MAC has come a long way as far as losing some of the proprietary hardware, but it's still not mainstream enough for large scale application.

        Once you get into customizing the OSX system to suit your needs, you would have been just as well off to go with a linux install... since they are very similar but with most linux distro's being far more flexible.

         

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      DMM, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:47pm

      Re: Way off...

      "For what they are tasked to do they do a pretty good job."

      The one thing MS is tasked to do is to make boatloads of money for its shareholders. I would say it does this one thing rather well.

      As for putting out a good, usable OS, the jury is still out on that one...

       

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      Wizard Prang, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 1:21pm

      Re: Way off...

      And do all this within 2 years.

      I was under the impression that developing Vista took longer than two years.

      Other than that, fair comments.

       

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    Your Mother, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:35am

    yeah.

    I was kind of annoyed that Microsoft took the HAL out of DirectSound, but now I'm ok that my sound card manufacturer has come up with a solution...

    Other than that and my computer only having 1gb of memory on it, I use Vista Ulitmate primarly for gaming, and it runs as nice as I expected it..
    For the games that don't run well on vista that I play, I have it set up to dual boot with XP... so no problem.

    As far as the security that keeps popping up, I can live with it. It's aimed at the morons who install everything that pops up on their computer without asking, or those who never question what a site is trying to install...
    Some linux distros have security similar to this (but not as annoying) as well, and kudos to Microsoft for finally not having people finally not running everything as an administrator... (I am also not trying to start a linux vs windows war, I use ubuntu also, and like the options I have with it)

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:36am

      Re: yeah.

      "It's aimed at the morons..."

      Brilliant communication skills. Perhaps mommy never taught you to act more respectful. It isn't too late to learn.

       

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        Your Mother, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:52am

        Re: Re: yeah.

        I seem to remember some part of a definition of the word moron being somebody who is lacking in good judgment.
        I'm sorry that the definition is not acceptable to you when it refers to somebody who blindly allows everything they come across to be installed on their computer.
        Those people deserve the adware/spyware/malware/viruses that are installed on their computer.

        Come on. "Brilliant communication skills"? My post is what you're attacking? Look at you! You have absolutely nothing to say on the topic, so you're attacking people's posts.

         

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    WisconsinGod, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:35am

    Where is the problem?

    "because the only thing it's likely to do is piss off a lot of people who wanted to buy Microsoft's latest operating system and now can't."

    However, who honesly want's to buy Vista.... Most of us are more upset that they are not giving us the option to stick with XP on new PC's

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:39am

    Bills Assistant?

    Nah man.. If I was Bills personnel assistant, I would be getting all your names to be assassinated for insulting the great Bill ;)

    I was just making a point that there are companies out there that make things way more important than OS's that actually kill people when they have problems. Take cars for instance. There was one a while back that leaked CO2 into the passenger compartment slowly killing people as they drove around. Now that’s a problem. Vista has odd little problems, oh waaa.. just don’t use it until they fix the damned thing. Buy a new PC, download XP from a torrent and use your key from your old PC. Wait for Vista to be fixed then upgrade again with the key your new PC came with.. Nothing to hard about that.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:53am

      it really is that bad

      deny or allow?

      the problem is not that they have to design a computer for a million people and a million configurations. They seem to do that well. It is their innovation that just downright sucks. They have two kinds of features, those stolen from macs (gadgets? zoom out window viewing?), and those that are more of a hassle than anything (deny or allow?)

      Obviously there are going to be bugs, and I find that acceptable, but you have to have a quality product where people will actually want to contribute to improving your software. And now for the real bashing: Welcome to the beginning of the end for this shit company. Inventing was never its strong suit.

       

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:38am

      Re: Bills Assistant?

      Carbon Dioxide?

      Carbon Monoxide is what kills people, CO.

       

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    Wolfger, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:48am

    Music to my ears.

    Every dissatisfied Vista customer is a potential Linux convert. :-)

    Why do I care? Because once people migrate to Linux in droves, hardware vendors will finally be forced to give support to Linux developers, and game designers will be forced to consider cross-platform programming. Then I will be happy.

     

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    magicdiablo, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:49am

    Travis

    If we all had a lot of money of course it would work right away with little or no problems.

     

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    SomePerson, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:55am

    Vista blows and always will...

    What? Not giving the option to have XP on new PCs?? There's a simple solution to that. Order the PC with NO OS. Get out your copy of XP Pro Corp (every serious computer geek has one). Put CD in. Install.

    Or, order PC with no OS. Put in (distro of your choice) Linux CD. Install.

    To all you M$ Billy Boy wankers who keep saying Vista is the best thing since sliced bread... You are morons. How much did Billy pay you to come here and say a bunch of utter BS? VI$TA is $hit! Total and pure $hit. And I don't think it's going to be like XP where it sucked at first launch but got better 2 years later. Vista is nothing but a bloated OS designed for complete morons. I'll stick with XP (for games) and Mepis Linux (everything else), thanks.

    Problem solved.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:43am

      Re: Vista blows and always will...

      Now this is a perfect example of a troll. Why must you resort to name calling and personal insults?

      I am going to practice a bit of "self policing" here.

      Please good sir, would you just be quiet and never post to anything anywhere? I use Linux and Open Source proudly and do not want to be associated with your ilk. Please practice some maturity and self control. Your approach to communication tells the world that you have inner turmoil and are trying to convince yourself of the claims you make. Perhaps you secretly love Microsoft and wish Linux would emulate it.

       

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      Las Perdidos Del Rio Vista, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 1:04pm

      Re: Vista blows and always will...

      Amen brother.

      2 important questions:
      _How_ much RAM does Vista use?
      _Why_ does it need that much?

       

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    Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 9:59am

    Wow. Techdirt should feel complimented that M$ thinks Techdirt is important enough to have so many M$ turf-trolls working the forums here.

     

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    Gamenac, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:04am

    Older

    I've found that many of the things that Vista has pre-installed can easily be found quite cheap. Plus the whole 'more security' thing is just stupid. People do stupid things on the internet, thats why they get viruses/have their identity stolen. I prefer the look of Vista over XP, so I just changed how my os looks. Vista isn't all that great, hell, most other operating system alternatives are WAAAY better...

     

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    Dave, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:13am

    Why complain?

    I don't understand all the complaints about Vista. There is a very simple solution: Don't upgrade. If you bought Vista and find you don't like it, I'm not sure what you were thinking. Every electronics store has computers set up with Vista installed so you can TRY IT first. Who the hell buys a $200 piece of software they know nothing about and installs it on their computer?

    As for the "important stuff" that Vista Basic does not include, I hardly think the graphical goodies count as "important." Do a little research. The OS was rewritten. The OS IS the important stuff.

     

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      SomePerson, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:17am

      Re: Why complain?

      Uhh, Dave...seriously.. how much is M$ paying you to come here and "defend" Vi$ta?? This is getting sickening.

       

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      BleedingEdgeTech.com, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 1:06pm

      Re: Why complain?

      Joe Blue-Shirt cannot be bothered to upgrade a copy of Windows, now _or_ in two years. They waited for the "latest & greatest" to buy, now that its out, they are sorry they waited.

       

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    Chronno S. Trigger, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:14am

    Vista

    I got Vista recently and put it on a PC with the fallowing stats:
    3.0Ghz P4
    1G PC3200 Ram
    128M ATI Radion 9800

    If I remember correctly that is the minimum requirements for all the visual effects. Except Vista is supposed to run on 1Ghz. I have had no problems with it. It looks great on my 21in CRT monitor. I can also play Half Life 2 (with graphics all the way up) with no video glitches. I am surprised at how well Vista runs.

    As for "Vista Compatible" I could have said that when I first saw the sticker. Compatible just meas it will work. that's it.

    And a mouse is optional. even in vista.

     

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    Dewy, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:15am

    I'd like to see

    I'd like to see something that doesn't use up half a machines available resources just because it has them. I recall I have win98 running efficiently on 30 meg of ram, and my 512 meg of ram was plenty. Then comes XP that has to have 256 meg to run minimally.

    Now MS comes out with a brand new OS that requires a gig of ram. Not to mention its own built in CPU hog to rescan your machine as each file is used.

    How about we design something that works well... and build upon that success... not re-invent the wheel every few years and make everyone buy new wagons.

     

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      Mitch the Bitch, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:29am

      Re: I'd like to see

      Dewy, if you want to run DOS 3.3 then run it. No one is forcing YOU to upgrade anything (let alone a wagon) but YOU somehow feel that YOU need to dictate to ME what I should run because youre to cheap to buy a new PC every few years?

      That popping sound you will hear in a few minutes is YOUR head coming out of YOUR ass :)

       

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      Mitch the Bitch, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:29am

      Re: I'd like to see

      Dewy, if you want to run DOS 3.3 then run it. No one is forcing YOU to upgrade anything (let alone a wagon) but YOU somehow feel that YOU need to dictate to ME what I should run because youre to cheap to buy a new PC every few years?

      That popping sound you will hear in a few minutes is YOUR head coming out of YOUR ass :)

       

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    Uriel, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:19am

    Vista?

    Windows Vista sucks

     

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    Honestly, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:33am

    Bloat for Bloats sake

    Yep. M$ worked on Vista for years before releasing it, and will work on it for a couple more before they ever get people to quit complaining about it. (They will stop complaining because the new system will be worse, not beacuse Vista will eventually work well.)
    And yeah, it must be hard to write software that works on millions of computers and configurations. Thats part of the reason that Kleenex doesn't manufacture Jet engines. They aren't good at it. M$ simply fails to recognize their skills, and their non-skills.
    When will people learn that software usually sucks when it is first released? As soon as the marketing gurus at M$ figure out that they can't write their way out of a wet paper bag! People are stupid, and you can't blame M$ for taking advantage of them.
    People who want to use their computers safely, reliably, efficiently and get things done are not having Vista problems. Those people use Macs. Macs don't get viruses, they dont have annoying pop-ups, you can customize them to look and work exactly how you want them to, and your Mac will never give up, and claim that it needs some software that hasn't been written yet.
    I have never had to 'patch' my Mac OS, since the Macintosh II. I have never had a Mac virus, and I have never installed virus protection. Every Mac I have ever owned worked great right out of the box, and the ones that I still own, still work.
    I have owned many PC's, and even my newest XP-Pro based PC is a piece of dung. I have never opened my PC and not found a pop-up that says I need to download and install updates.
    Oh, you just bought your $399 PC and upgraded to Vista, hoping to be able to play video games? Dude, you aren;t looking for a computer, you need a Playstation. My Playstation handles games perfectly. No OS needed. No video card upgrade required. My old PS1 games still work on my PS2.
    Summary:
    Buy a Mac for computing, buy a Playstation for gaming, and let morons who need to feel lkike they are part of pop-culture buy a Dell with Vista, and bitsh and moan about it for the next 2 years. Suckers.

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:13am

      Re: Bloat for Bloats sake

      "Kleenex doesn't manufacture Jet engines."
      LOL

      "I have never had to 'patch' my Mac OS, since the Macintosh II. I have never had a Mac virus, and I have never installed virus protection."
      You might be lucky then. OSX has had many patches, often security related.

       

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    You never know, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:46am

    Lets take a look at this for a moment, Vista takes a completely different direction from every thing Microsoft has offered to date. No longer will legacy device drivers be compatible under the new OS unless they are directly written into for OS by Microsoft. Even then they will not have 100% functionality. Translation; you will have to replace your printers, scanners, cameras, ect. The network ability is not compatible with another OS. This is ok if it is the only PC in the house or you have no need to network two or more PCs together or connect to a data server. Small business users are SOL! What this means is we as the consumer are being forced to completely replace all equipment with new thus making a new market for retailers, manufactures and installers. That calculates to a whole lot of money being generated by a simple operating system change. It’s a win loose situation with us the consumer left holding the bag. And don’t look for much help from Microsoft of the manufactures. Far be it from them to kill this cash cow….

     

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    Angryoaf, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:47am

    Heh, I jumped onto the "vista sucks" bandwagon before I tried it. I recently installed it on my notebook to see what all the fuss is about and now I just don't understand it.

    My computer runs fine, I'd actually say it runs better. There isn't any great amount of ram being used while it's idle. (about 680mb which is what xp was using) and the security warnings took all for 30s to disable.

    I'm sure everyone here knew that computers needed to meet a certain standard in order to be able to fully utilize the new interface. When you upgrade from XP you are prompted to verify that your computer can run vista via the upgrade assistant and you are given details about any possible problems with your system.

    If people didn't follow the steps or ignored the warnings then that's their problem. I'm no M$ lover; not by a long shot... but I'm thinking a lot of the anti-vista sentiment is largely unfounded.

     

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    CabManic, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:00am

    I wouldn't expect anything more from MS.

     

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    Dewy, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:05am

    So did Vista help you double post that? Or just your own ineptness?

    perhaps you misunderstand me... and your entitled to. The truth doesn't require your belief to be true.

    you don't need Vista, you don't need the latest greatest whatever to function on the internet. I AM running a couple of Win2k machines, as well as maintaining several winxp machines on the network at my wife's office.

    I WILL run what I choose... and MS is driving away customers with their constant need to "bundle" everything under the sun (including software not innovated by themselves) to the point that current machines won't work any longer.

    Xp with specific adjustments and third party programs is working fine... why not improve upon it rather than rewrite it? Why release a "New" buggy product to make my customers ask if their perfectly functioning machines need to be replaced?

    Greed is the answer. They know ram is cheap... so they're going to eat all you can afford. HD space is cheaper by the day... so lets consume a few gig of it now, and a few gig more with future updates.

    Now... why your offended at me is still a mystery. Maybe your just a jackass who felt like my simple comment needed your flamage to harden it. It doesn't.

    That popping sound you thought I heard was the last bit of manners you had giving up on your insulting self.

    Run what you like... don't gloat because you can afford the shiny crap they try to sell you every day.

     

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    Hopskotch, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:14am

    Mac...

    I love when ignorant people ramble about how secure Mac is. The only reason you don't get a virus on a Mac is because no one cares enough to program a virus for the 8% of people who use them, most of whom are designers for companies who don't run random applications. As much as i can't stand the hip new mac crowd, I do look forward to when i larger percentage of people use them so that Windows won't be the only OS under attack for its security.
    Windows has a HUGE client base all with different needs. They also have a plethora of hardware and software vendors developing for it. That is a daunting task for anyone.
    If you don't like Windows, stop using it, stop being able to use any program you want, and switch to Mac or the even more "obvious" choice for a desktop OS - linux.

    .NET > java (side-tangent)

     

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    Lazerus King, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:22am

    Personally

    Not an M$ fanboy here but I won't be going Vista real soon. XP works fine for now. I'll hit the highlights.
    M$ SUCKS! Linux only!
    OK. Linux works great, stable, unfortunately until only 2 or three versions become industry standard and manufacturers are willing to support it I'm afraid it's a pipe dream. Most casual users need plug and play believe it or not. Not command line interface just to get your GUI up.
    "Apple products are elite."
    Apple products rock for video, art and music production but lack when it comes to gaming.
    "Buy a console then."
    I really don't want a console for gaming due to lack of flexibility. You can't really add maps/mods/etc.. to a console unless they are console manufacturer approved and most likely you need to purchase them.
    "Apple dosen't patch their OS"
    Apple doesn't patch their OS? Ok.
    http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/
    Why are there security patches listed??
    Steve Jobs is doing a Jedi Mind trick. "You see no flaws in our products. These are not the driods you seek."
    Not to say the dark side is any better but when they get caught with a flaw they try to fix it all the way.
    http://news.com.com/Mac+OS+X+patch+faces+scrutiny/2100-1002_3-6046588.html
    OK. I am donning my flame retardent suit. Let me have it.

     

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    Associated Press, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:29am

    The Ultimate test IMHO

    sigh, look at your keyboard. is there a penguin between the CTRL and ALT keys? Nah, i didn't think so, mine has the Windows flag as well. Microsofts sign that they are the king of the hill. and if you've ever played that game, being king of the hill doesn't happen by accident. and for those of you who have a clover leaf... i almost bought a macbook simply because ASU sells them at a discount. then i thought it through and got an HP instead. what can i say, but i live on right clicking.

     

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    Black Ize (profile), Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:40am

    If you don't like Vista...

    then you can install XP. When you buy a new PC with Vista installed you have downgrade rights.
    Just call the MS telephone number for Key support and they will give you one. I have been a part of the BETA test for Vista since they started it and I still run XP.
    The main reason is that I am sick of OS's and Programs always wanting your attention. Whatever I am doing on the computer at the time is what I want to do. I hate all of the balloons and notifications about stupid inane things. If nothing bad is happening then don't interrupt me.
    And for all of the fans of MS, Mac, and Linux I say no one has done it right. I know and run all three. Three different versions of MS OS', Two different versions of Mac OS, and five different distros.
    It is time someone rethinks the OS and really makes one that does what it should the way it should. I think someone should do what Bill Gates did in the eighties and steal all the good parts from all the OS' out here now and make a truely good OS. One that protects the average user from his/her own stupidity, allows those that really know it to do what they want, and just does it's thing in the background which is where the is suppose to be.

     

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      Associated Press, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:49am

      Re: If you don't like Vista...

      ecept for the lawsuits that would ensue. and that OS having to be patched different kinds of sideways to stop infringing on those patents(presuming it made it to market with those infringements). then we'd be back to square one.

      PS: when will ReactOS be...idk what word to use, but, a big deal? their idea sounds really good, but right now.... heh, i'd take a linux distro over that, and thats saying a lot from me.

       

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      justanotherhonky, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:21pm

      Re: If you don't like Vista...

      Thanks for the tip! :) My laptop will be my new favorite toy soon!!

       

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    Who Paid for My CPU, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:40am

    Vista < XP

    Vista, I'm sorry to say is very poorly implement.

    DRM - processing is always on, so even non-protected content is queried.
    UAC - is a joke. Closing the holes rather then spamming about their usage would be preferable.

    There is this nasty habit that some developers exhibit, specifically they seem to ignore the fact that their code runs on the users machine. And fail to respect that fact. Simply by providing means for users to disable "features' they may decide doesn't provide any benefit, would provide that respect. Vista's DRM is an excellent example of such a "feature". It provides no benefit to users, rather a encumbrance at best.

    The DRM implementation, and other similar ham fisted "features" provide ample reason not to use Vista.

    Vista Do Less with More.

     

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    S Sayer, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:42am

    Vista will be added to the scrap heap of things yo

    eom

     

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    S Sayer, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 11:43am

    Vista will be added to the scrap heap,

    of things people don't really need, right on top of disco balls

     

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    123456, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:07pm

    "I have to say that while MS & the system vendors can't be allowed to get away with false advertising, I can NOT fathom the mind of someone who buys a copy of Vista in the first couple of months, and expects it to work well."

    Never mind that, we're talking about people who bought computers on a "promise" that it will be compatible with vapourware. sheesh......

     

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    justanotherhonky, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:11pm

    Not impressed

    I bought a new desktop PC in January loaded with XP with a mail-in certificate for the Vista upgrade. Got the upgrade in the mail, decided to wait awhile to install it. Then I bought a new laptop last month with Vista fully loaded. Guess which machine I enjoy using the most? The Vista disk is still in the wrapper and may stay there awhile longer. :)

     

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    that gut in the back, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:12pm

    M$ Vi$ta

    I recently bought a laptop for a customer that was supposed to be configured to run Vi$ta like a champ. NOT. The fact that after I finished the initial setup, Vi$ta used 700mb of 2gb of memory and the P4 3.2ghz, was idle at 10%. That is not leaving much for the user IMO. I cannot stand the fact that when M$ releases something you have to w8 for at least a couple years for the "developers" to fix all of the serious bugs and another 5 years fixing all of the security holes. And then to only have to patch the patches. Here is the best patch.... install Ubuntu.

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:18pm

    I bought a macbook pro a few weeks ago. I don't miss windows in the least.

     

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    Davecs, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 12:37pm

    Eye Candy

    One of the selling points of Vista is the new eye candy (Aero). Well it won't work on my machine, a 3 year old Athlon XP3200+ with 512Mb RAM and a trusty old Nvidia FX5200 graphics card.

    But guess what? I can get PCLinuxOS running Beryl with true 3D and translucency effects, spinning 4 desktops in a cube around a moving skydome in the background, whilst burning a CD and running Firefox. And the whole system (ie system files as opposed to personal files) installs in around 2Gb. I've added loads of software and it still comes in under 3.5Gb.

    So when I get my "Vista Capable" computer, you can bet I'll be setting it free to fly...

     

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    Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 1:12pm

    Ha!

    Mac doesn't fill the role of:

    "Think about this: Make a product that works for millions of people on millions of different and unknown configurations. This product needs to work nearly 100% of the time. It also has to work with millions of different kinds of people (cultures, languages etc..) And do all this within 2 years."

    They sell the computer and the software that goes with that computer.. That leaves no room for error, they have the perfect setup. Lets make a string that only ties to our pole, we know it will work because we have the pole right here! Mac has always had a flawed business model. They will always be the underdog because of that model. Heres an idea, Apple should ditch OS whatever and go with Linux, open up that market. That would blow MS out of the water pretty quick.

     

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    Stanislav, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 2:02pm

    Let's sue everyone

    Ignoring all of the moaning along the lines of "Wah! It's different!" and returning the the point at hand, this lawsuit is as stupid as suing 1) automakers because their vehicles don't really get the fuel mileage listed on the stickers, 2) restaurant chains because the actual served food never looks like the pictures, and 3) politicians because they never do everything they promise. Frivolity to the max.

     

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    His Shadow, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 2:20pm

    Cue the Techo Lords dismissing the concerns of the common user as if the experiences of those people who build their own systems matters a whit.

    The PC makes have no choice BUT to slap "Works with Windows" on their boxes so as to allow a lower Windows Tax for themselves. It doesn't matter to them or Microsoft if the target demographic has enough information to make an intelligent purchase.

    Microsoft is a company tnat includes those silly "Vista Upgrade" vouchers as a valid retail sale to make their claim for "20 million sold". As long as MS is deceptive, they will be sued. Who HASN'T sued them to this point?

     

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      Anonymous Coward, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 2:52pm

      Re:

      "Who HASN'T sued them to this point?"

      I saw it written once (regarding partnering with Microsoft) that there were only two types of companies that partner with Microsoft:
      1. Those that have daggers in their backs
      2. Those that will.

       

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    Sarojin, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 3:12pm

    Don't install beta software

    Especially if it is from MS. Just because they launched it doesn't mean it's done.

    Get a Mac instead.

     

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    PhysicsGuy, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 3:17pm

    wow...

    you're all a bunch of losers...

     

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    benji, Apr 4th, 2007 @ 10:18pm

    mac or pc

    i still think mac's are gay

     

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    Stupid MOnkey, Apr 5th, 2007 @ 6:31am

    fan boys

    All you fan boys missed the whole point of the article. It isn't whether Vista works or not, whether a Mac or Linux is better. The point is that a "Vista Capable" computer can't really run all of the things Vista can do. As techy people we know these things.
    But as a techy person I went to Microsoft's site and had a hell of a time finding out EXACTLY what specs were needed to run AERO on Vista. They give you the minimum requirements to run Vista with "*" all over on the cool features.
    I like Microsoft, but I will say the new Vista scheme of all these different packages is very hard to understand. For the normal user I'd say it's about impossible to understand.
    As for the security features.. I'm sure people will just click "Allow" on everything, because they don't know any better. I'm not sure how that will make it more secure.

     

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    i am me, Apr 5th, 2007 @ 1:58pm

    imagine

    If vista runs good on a pc with all the bells plus 5 gigs of ram and dual 500 gig hard drives imagine what Linux can do. If your going to be forced to relearn an os you might as well save time and money and get xubuntu, free= save money and well anyone can learn it in 10 minutes or less

     

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    TheWizard, Apr 13th, 2007 @ 2:28am

    It's crashy, buggy, over-priced BETA ware

    Vista looks real nice. However, I have been using Vista on a BRAND NEW Intel dual core 2 machine with 2 gigs of ram. So far, Vista has locked up and crashed at least 18 times during the 8 hours I've clocked on it. It keeps a cozy record of all the catastrophic glitches for me, ain't that convenient?
    Using a new HP printer, it wouldn't even allow me to print from it's OWN MS Works 8. Vista was at fault. Finally there was a patch for that from Microsnoft. By the way, Vista makes any of your hardware or peripherals from about 2000 and earlier extinct, Vista will NOT recognize them anymore. Read that to mean go buy all new printers, scanners, etc.
    Getting drivers is a picnic, and trying to install some older software just crashes the machine.
    It's frustrating and obscene that Micro$oft demands $250 for this half-completed pile of $hit. The price is only worth it if MS returned five dollars for YOUR time every time you had to download some asinine patch or spend time updating something. Who could make any excuses for something like this and expect us to waste our time repairing their reject products over and over?!
    There have been about a dozen patches and driver upgrades so far in one month.
    If you have dial up, forget it, you'll never have enough bandwidth to accommodate all the sizable updates.
    If you're dead set on getting Vista, at least wait a while until some more of the bugs are worked out.

     

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    identicon
    Adam, Apr 15th, 2007 @ 2:04pm

    Vista

    @SomePerson
    You're clearly young- I'm guessing mid-teens- or else haven't used PCs for so long. Those with more than a fleeting experience with them remember changing from Win98 to WinXP. Or Win95 to Win98. Or 3.11 to 95. Or 3.11 - 95 - 98 - 2000AS - XP.
    When WinXP was released, people - including me - said "WinXP sucks for games, reliability, driver support and it's interface looks like it was designed by Duplo.". When they started using GUIs the Mac fanatics were all "ooh, you stole our features" (actually first used by xerox, I believe). And all the while, Linux has been "just about ready for home users- change today and stop being an M$ wh0re!" when really it isn't. I've been using it on and off for years- around a decade now, actually- and found it a kick-ass OS until I wanted to play games or quickly get a new feature added.

    Windows doesn't suck. Macs don't suck... too much. Linux rocks, but is nowhere near ready for the consumer market.

    Though Vista is waaay overpriced, I've NEVER had to "recompile the kernel" or anything. Hell, it even works with my old (bought for a Win98 machine when that was new) TV card, with OLD drivers.

    Linux + decent gaming would rock. Though if I remember right, WINE lets HL2 and the like play quite nicely.

     

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    ethana2, May 26th, 2007 @ 11:21pm

    It said windows XP or better... Man, I love Beryl. And my $250 of course.

    As for the gaming, well, I wish open frag would move along a bit faster. Anyone want to help me convince the people at Nexuiz and Tremulous dev to port? ethana2@gmail.com

    Once that happens, I won't look back at all. Ever. By the way, feel free to contact me for any information you may want about switching to Linux or OSS in general. It's always a shame for someone to have to put up with M$'s antics for want of a single feature they have not found an open implementation of yet.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in chronology ]


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