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What Good Would Spy Coins Be... Even If They Did Exist?
from the do-you-have-some-spare-change? dept
There's been a lot of talk lately about the use of RFID chips in various things like tires or sneakers, and how these technologies could be misused to spy on your whereabouts. Of course, what's never clearly explained is how effective such a solution would be. RFIDs tend to have very limited range. Still, with so much talk about using RFIDs to spy on people, is it any wonder that press quickly jumped on the story about the US Defense Department is warning American contractor employees to be careful when they get foreign change. The story claims that a few contractors discovered that the Canadian coins they had, held RFID chips placed inside. However, no one seems to have a good answer to explain what this would be useful for. A reader would need to be quite close to the coins to get a read on the tags, at which point you wonder exactly what the benefit really is. Also, since change tends to be spent or passed around pretty rapidly (with no indication back to whoever put the chips in the coins), it might not be even remotely effective in following an individual. Perhaps the answer is that it didn't really happen. Another news report on the topic claims that there were some concerns, but an investigation of the coins found no transmitters. That source claims the report about the RFID coins was simply false, and never should have been reported. No matter which story is actually true, it seems like lots of people are eager to jump onto any claim of RFID-based spying, even if there's no technological reason to be concerned.
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Makes perfect sense
But why bother explaining it to the rabble outside the beltway?
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Next on the News
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Be Afraid - oooo its those nasty moose thingies
Neither story actually says RFID so if its actually a bug its not going to last long with batteries that small, and if it is RFID its not going to have an amazing range, so unlike counting cars which may tell you something all this would tell you is someone didn't pass your reader - maybe he took another route - PANIC!!
The second story neatly discounts the entire thing and I think if this were a serious concern it wouldn't be getting released it'd be getting investigated quietly - follow the coins see what they talk to, find the owner, shine a bright light in his eyes...
I dunno maybe we should be just generally afraid of you know, stuff and things
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Another, more realistic possibility...
By giving, say, 1,000 or even 10,000 coins a unique RFID they could put readers in, for example, toll booths and by figuring out how many of these uniquely tagged coins passed through compared to the total amount of currency that passed through they could form an estimate of just how much small change is actually out there. A moderately useful task with no direct privacy implications as they'd be making no attempt to track the coins to any individual.
Just my bugged 2 cents worth... :-)
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Re: Another, more realistic possibility...
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Deep Throat
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Re: Makes perfect sense
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They could then trace money exchanges. At some point, they would know how much money you have and where it came from. Is it unrealistic that they would know when you have money that you shouldn't when you spend it and there is not any transaction showing that you received it?
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Re: Re: Makes perfect sense
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Re: Makes perfect sense
A video camera would be 1000 times better. It can work at a greater distances. It can track more than one person at a time. And you don't need to "tag" each person.
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Re: Makes perfect sense
people use the serial numbers on dollar bills to track their movements on websites like http://www.wheresgeorge.com
perhaps rhe RFID chips are some sort of high tech version of something similarly stupid.
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For the scanner outside our building, you basically have to take the RFID card out of your wallet, rub it against the scanner for 3 minutes, then hope someone with a better access card comes up and lets you in.
As for portable scanners, if I see someone trying to put a RFID reader wand in my pockets to scan the coins, I'm either going to be very suspicious or try to get a date.
Now a question for the techs, wouldn't the METAL in the coin screw up being able to scan it. Although I've only seen a few, all the RFID types i've seen are encased in plastic. And that leads to the question, who goes around cutting open coins to see if their are RFID tags in them.
I agree with Bruce, spy cameras are ALL around us, like the guy y'all mentioned the other day that murdered the woman and they could follow his complete escape route (can't find link). So, imo, they are much more effective.
Now implanting trackers in a person skull....
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If it happened, we need more details.
That, or it's bunk.
As far at the panopticon issue goes, WE have more cameras than THEY do.
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Re: Be Afraid - oooo its those nasty moose thingie
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Could it be...
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Re: Re: Makes perfect sense
Dear Troll,
Fuck Off.
Thank you.
Peet
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I suppose if you handed someone an unusual coin that they were more apt to keep, it might be useful under some circumstances.
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Re: Re: Be Afraid - oooo its those nasty moose thi
I would be genuinely interested in this long range RFID technology if you have any links
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More likely it's an accounting technique
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my 2c
Without that essential evidence there's no way to make an assessment.
Discounting the most likely case, that it's nonsense or someone is mistaken, the second most likely scenario is that it's an experimental issue to detect the movement of the coin, not an individual on whos person it resides. That would be foolish, in one day the coin may change hands many times.
Now, show me a good resolution picture of the device and I'll tell you what it is.
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Spy Coin Report
Do Not fall for this crap again!! That outfit puts Joseph Goebbels and his "Propaganda Principles" to shame !
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Re: Spy Coin Report
They wouldn't want to let on they knew anything about it until they knew a lot more about what was going on and why - by which time they would definitly have pictures
Given the lack of theatrics and walt disney presentations on this one I feel like they aren't even trying - I'm not even slightly perturbed. Please could they try harder, I'm losing the ability to keep up a general feeling of impending doom
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Re: Re: Makes perfect sense
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Ever hear of a proximity fuse?
One thing you can almost be certain of - if a coin with an RFID tag passes by, it's being carried by a person.
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so that's why..
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Those cunning devils
Why the dirty low down...
"Maybe somebody in particular, otherwise just some random Joe."
It's feasible, both plans could work...
"All" he has to do is set up the explosive somewhere.."
Like a booby trapped Coke machine?
"Then plant the coin on the victim."
Hey mister, have you got change for this perfectly normal Canadian $2? Or maybe he could use that magic trick where you can make it appear behind their ear.
"One thing you can almost be certain of - if a coin with an RFID tag passes by, it's being carried by a person."
Or an African Swallow?
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silly terrorists!
I'm not saying it's overkill, necessarily, but given that the most common means used is strapping explosives to a body or taking over an airplane with one of those super-tech-y box knives, is it worth the cost to develop and plan counter-terrorism strategies as if they really did have technology that was cutting-edge? Can one use RFID to trigger something else at a distance?
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Re:
Are you as concerned about the pr0n sites planting cookies in your computer so people can track your personal life?
No, didn't think so.
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Re: Ever hear of a proximity fuse?
Assuming they didn't hand the coin off to a street beggar in the meantime...a beggar whom they could have killed with a bullet, rock or car, without the expense of RFID...
Brilliant.
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Re: Ever hear of a proximity fuse?
Sure, a Batman super-villain might go to this much trouble, in order to introduce the possibility that our intrepid hero has enough time to find it and disarm it, but someone interested in SUCCESS would do like real-life terrorists generally do and just kill people.
Most likely scenario: Engineering grad students got bored and decided to see how long it took for one of their little projects to circulate around enough to come back into their possession.
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But they *aren't* spent!
You get the coin on someone, and it _stays_ with that person, unless they can find a schmuck who doesn't look at the change they are given. If you try to spend it, even the same place that gave it to you generally won't take it back.
-- Terry
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