Men Use Phones To Impress Women; Women Use Phones To Ward Off Men

from the the-battle-of-the-sexes dept

Well, it appears some things don't change much. Almost exactly six years ago, we wrote about a study that said that men tend to use mobile phones in the same way that peacocks display their plumage: as a mating call to try to impress women. A new study has found that this still happens. Men are much more likely to actively display their mobile phones in social situations. The article suggests it's a way to pick up women, but it also notes that men are just as eager to display their mobile phones to other men to make themselves appear more important. Of course, what makes this even more interesting is the study we saw this past summer that found that women use mobile phones for almost the exact opposite purpose. They do it to keep men from approaching them. That is, if they see someone approaching them, they may pull out the phone so they have an excuse to avoid talking to the man. No wonder the sexes have so much trouble communicating. They don't even use communication devices the same way.

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  1.  
    identicon
    Guy, Nov 13th, 2006 @ 11:52pm

    I use my phone when i need to make call not to impress any woman i use my very large adaquate penis to inpress them

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  

    Re: Guy

    identicon
    Jay, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 12:04am

    i use my very large adaquate penis to inpress them

    Are you sure it's not your grammar that turns them on?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  

    Inquiry

    identicon
    Girl, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 12:08am

    Is it possible for me to rent your very large penis?

    What are your rates?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  

    Am I a woman?

    identicon
    Dom, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 12:10am

    I dunno, if I see someone nearby I'd rather avoid contact with, I'll whip out my mobile and pretend to type a message or something... So it's not just women who do this :P

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  

    And???

    identicon
    cjmemay, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 12:11am

    This is kind of "Duh", isn't it?

    Another way of summing up this article would be: 84% of guys are assholes, and, most women don't want to talk to alot of them.
    especially me.

    I mean, honestly, if you weren't aware of both of these social conventions, you are probably not from America.

    Oh... right. Ethnocentrism. Well then, this may be a really interesting study, if you are not from America.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  

    Maybe

    identicon
    Girl, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 12:13am

    I need a new phone to impress myself.

    Suggestions?

    I like the LG Chocolate because it would coordinate well with my wardrobe, but I am old school and buy CDs. (Finally, some good shit is released today and tomorrow if you know.)

    And where can I get a deal other than "Cellular Choices/ Wirefly"

    I hate Cingular.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  

    "Duh?"

    identicon
    Girl, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 12:18am

    Did you just watch Borat something? Think for yourself and speak for broads like yourself.

    Statistics dont mean shit, and "ethnocentrism" America cannot be summed up with stupid pseudo-(collegemajor) terms.

    Womens studies is not a field for the smarter women. The truly smart ones get degrees studying very large male phalluses.

    That is how you sound.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  

    bla blabla

    identicon
    Girl, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 12:20am

    Nobody wants to read that shit...the never-shut-your-mouth Liberal.

    Neither do I, I am aware.

    DUH

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  

    Re:

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    The Swiss Cheese Monster, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:05am

    That is what you think...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  

    confirmed

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    joe, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:46am

    a girl did this to me, and i didnt even want to talk to her in the first place. i accidently made eye contact with her, and noticed when i walked by her she started playing with her phone and then put it away.

    i was so angry, i just wanted to yell at her for thinking i could possibly want to talk to her...i hate that! i hate it! what happened to the days when most girls had a modest self-esteem, i never got to experience those days. now its all a bunch of filthy skanks that think they all that. grrrr... sry ladies, nothing personal, but you have to have noticed those girls that tarnish the grace and beauty of womankind are just revolting human beings.

    to all the girls UNLIKE the skanks i have describe all i gotta say is- YOU GO GIRL(S)

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    identicon
    dan, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 4:19am

    possibly, just possibly, men take their mobile phones inv iew becuase they don't have handbags to keep them in.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  

    Re: by dan

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    Chronno S. Trigger, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 5:30am

    and they dial in your pocket

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    identicon
    smellygrrl, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 5:37am

    OK, what kind of moron carries around multiple phones? Fine, I can see that there are some people who'd be impressed if you have a really cool phone, but multiple phones? Doesn't that make you look like a clumsy dork?

    Joe, having problems getting attention from the ladies, are we?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  

    Re: And???

    identicon
    Marvin Freytas, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 5:47am

    Apparently, some women are assholes too.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  

    So, why not...

    identicon
    Just me..., Nov 14th, 2006 @ 6:07am

    Why the heck do ya think the cell phone makers create cell phone holders / cases that clip on your belt? To impress women? Maybe the cell phone case makers are women themselves!!! :-)

    Besides, what does a cell phone have to do with impressions? Most model cell phones are so affordable; it would not be much of an impression!

    What an impression rip off...!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  

    Phones to impress women?

    identicon
    Dave, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 6:11am

    I don't get it. Everyone and their brother's mother has a cellphone, how on earth is it supposed to impress women? That's absurd. I do however use it to avoid talking to certain people. If I see someone I don't want to talk to I pretend I'm on a call and just walk by. Now my audi keyfob in the other hand has a nice little chrome audi logo on it. Sometimes I'll set it down making sure the logo is in view, so I can understand the idea, but phones don't cut it. I can't imagine any respectable woman saying to herself "wow, he has a nice phone, I'm gonna go talk to him".

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  

    Look More Important!

    identicon
    slide23, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 6:11am

    Hilarious.

    I get such a kick out of people that show off their phones, have loud, very important-sounding phone calls in public, and wear their wireless headset even when not on a call.

    Besides looking and sounding like a tool, they are all really saying how unimportant and needy they all are. Really important people have other people to take the calls for them.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  

    Re: Inquiry

    identicon
    EdB, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 6:24am

    Why rent when you can take mine out for a discovery flight at no charge and with no obligation?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  

    Re: And???

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    wolff000, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 7:03am

    Only 84%? I am a firm believer that all guys are assholes. being a a guy I should know. I also believe all women are the other extreme. The only reason people get together is you find that particular person that matches the kind of "personailty" you have. I do agree this study is obvious although I don't use my cell phone to show off, I do use it to avoid talking to people. I have faked conversations to get away from bad dates and the annoying guy at the water cooler.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  

    Re: Look More Important!

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    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 7:24am

    omg i hate the headset thing! whats worse is when they have the corded one tucked under thier shirt, whats that about. the bluetooth ones, okay i get it, you dont like wires, but why would you wear it when not on a phone call. i think im going to get some headphone and just put them on and walk around with them, on the off chance that i find something to plug them into.

    and if you have more than one phone, you need to get a better phone! even if you have to have one for work and then one for personal use, why on earth would you have them both clipped to your belt next to your pda.again get a better phone, you can have more than one number on a cell phone and most cell phones are PDAs these days.

    and dont get me started on how crazy someone looks talking to them selves in a resturant at the top of thier lungs.... oh no wait she is not crazy and rude, she is on a super important phone call about her babbies daddies cousin tyreese that just got put in jail for stabbing his mother for not selling enough crack. and that is not a strange growth on her ear, its her rinestone studded bluetoof headset tangled in her weave.

    and no it is not just guys that show off thier phones, women do it too!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  

    Re: Re: Look More Important!

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    E Dizzle, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 7:37am

    HAHAHA!!! Bluetoof! That is some funny stuff...

    p.s. - the dizzle aint fo' rizzle.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  

    Cell Phones

    identicon
    CoolCliftop, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 7:42am

    I am such a sneaky bastard, since I am to shy and pathetic to approach women, I use my cell phone camera to take their picture, and then brag to all my buddys about this cool chick I met. This serves two purposes.

    1) It makes the chick think I'm really cool and important cuz it looks like I'm texting a really important message

    2) It makes me look like a chick magnet to my pathetic friends.

    DAMN I'M SMOOTH!!!!

    LMAO...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    identicon
    :(, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 7:44am

    ...Sounds like us. It justifies being single, both sexes are duplicitous, inconsiderate, and anything but selfless. It's no surprise that the phone exaggerates these traits. The best part is how it's taboo to wonder who called the one you're with, so you always have some sort of lurking suspicion that there's another guy sending texts or some crazy crap trying to get your girl to roam. Technologically it's a step forward, socially though, it's rather crippling.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    identicon
    emceay, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 7:49am

    Wait a minute... Women can be impressed? That's news to me! ;)

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  

    The BlueTooth Fairies at work.

    identicon
    Tin Ear, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 7:56am

    I work in retail. If my customers come to me with a bluetooth earpiece on, I ask them to remove it. Most of them do. Some ask why and I tell them that it would be nice to have their full attention while I answer their question.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  

    Vanity & Misandry

    identicon
    [email protected], Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:10am

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

    If you need to impress a woman it means she wasn't interested in you to start with.

    I no longer carry a cell phone because I realized that there are good reasons that I should not be reached when I am not answering the phone. :-)

    For all you self-centered, self-important, misandrists (Man-Haters). I only have one thing to say to you...

    May nature take away all that allows you to derive your feeling of importance from taking advantage of a primary weakness in men... our insanity for women.

    So mote it be...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  

    Re: The BlueTooth Fairies at work.

    identicon
    nunya_bidness, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:21am

    I never wear my bluetooth while not driving, but if I did, and walked into a retail store and the clerk asked me to remove it, I would shop somewhere else. Good luck maintaining your career in retail.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    identicon
    dust and matter, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:24am

    stupid pseudo-(collegemajor) terms.? Unbelievable.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  

    Re: Vanity & Misandry

    identicon
    :(, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:28am

    Well said. Many of my friends were once the "nice guys". Nowadays we're just plain single because we don't want to get bent out of shape over 'just a woman'

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  

    Re: Re: Guy

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:30am

    Are you sure it's not your grammar that turns them on?

    Ouch. Guy now has a large but inadequate penis :(

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:34am

    Yeah, and it's the only time you will hear guys claiming "mine is smaller than yours."

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    identicon
    Daniel, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:34am

    Since we all wear clothes now we cant really be showing off our cocks without police attention now can we.

    interesting though that the phones get smaller and the big ones are now nothing to be proud of, if i whupped out a 9" black brick would you be more interested in coming home with me ladies?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  

    Re: smellygrrl

    identicon
    Crucial, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:35am

    Don't mistake some people that carry around multiple phones as trying to make up for something they're lacking down below. Some men, especially in operational and technical fields are required to carry a company phone, but are not allowed to use these phones for personal use.

    In short, I (however unfortunately) have to carry one phone because my job requires I always be reachable, and I carry another phone so that I can be reachable by my friends and family. It's not always a my penis is bigger than your penis battle.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  

    What next?

    identicon
    Paul, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:36am

    What next, a study that shows the same percentage of men choose a ringtone based on what they think a female will like, while the same percentage of women pick a ringtone that they themselves enjoy?

    I believe this article came from the "no fucking shit" department.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  

    Re: What next?

    identicon
    Daniel, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:40am

    I believe this article came from the "no fucking shit" department.

    so true ...

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  

    Re: Re: The BlueTooth Fairies at work.

    identicon
    Bob, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:41am

    I wouldn't ask someone to remove the headset, I just wouldn't talk to them. It works out better because then the customer can't yell at me because I'm simply being 'polite' by not interrupting them. Being in retail for over 10 years, I can tell you that when I go shopping and find I have a question, I don't hop onto my phone in the middle of a conversation or at least hang up before I start talking to a sales person. Common courtesy is a wonderful thing.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  

    Keep it in your pants

    identicon
    Norns, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:42am

    this is to the person who has every portable device known to man that you can attach a belt-clip to covering every square inch of your belt except for your buttcrack which needs covering..........i hope the electromagnetic field forming around your waist makes you sterile because we don't need your genes trying to replicate, especially with the trash you pick up while riding the bus home.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 8:53am

    working in retail and food service, when someone comes in yapping on their cell phone about whever miniture thing happened 2 minutes ago, i purposely act rude. I ignore them, i make them repeat what they want up to 10 times. Once they get the picture, they hang up, and i'm nice to them.

    it seems to reason, if you can't give your full attention for 3 minutes to place an order/talk to workers...you don't need the service. If you come ask a question, and have a headset on, it shows you have no ture interest in the product. I see no harm in asking for full attention. and if you feel you are too superior to remove your headset, your business isn't welcome. onlybecause you would be a selfish prick.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  

    Gadgets

    identicon
    tim, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 9:06am

    Aren't all gadgets ultimately a type of "plummage." For the most part you'll find people with PDA Phones who don't really need the extra features are the same guys who wear it on their belt like a badge of honor. I work with a couple guys who have one of those Verizon PDAs. My boss, who is constantly at meetings and traveling carries it in his pocket or in his briefcase, my co worker who occasionally gets a call on the thing wears it on a belt clip. I'd have to agree, it is the modern day codpiece.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  

    Priceless

    identicon
    Glenn, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 9:19am

    I was told by a woman back in the late 80's, when I got my first mobile phone that I used it to look important...I used it to see if I might possibly make more money, you see, I'm in sales! Now unless I am working I turn the f*$#ing off. Cell phones are a pariah on our civilization. Why have a conversation with you, the person I'm sitting next to, when I can have a conversation with someone who has interrupted me with a phone call? Turn the damn things off or put them on vibrate and/or only answer it if it is important. The whole world is nuts.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  

    Another reason

    identicon
    Electrical/Computer Engineer, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 9:24am

    I (male) have two phones, one personal and one work. My personal one was purchased small enough and designed in such a way that I can put it in my pocket and forget about it. My work phone is not designed quite as nicely. The phones go with me everywhere, and when i am on a job site, and don't have a coat pocket to put the phones in, my work phone ends up on my belt. This is not because I am trying to attract a woman, it is simply because it does not fit comfortably in my pocket.

    Not all men are A-holes always wanting a booty call.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  

    Re: The BlueTooth Fairies at work.

    identicon
    Girllover, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 10:32am

    What if a girl comes to you with a bluetooth on and the phone is in her holster on vibrate?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  

    Anonymous Coward

    identicon
    Glenn, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 10:45am

    What does "Anon" do all day?

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  

    Re: Anonymous Coward

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 10:48am

    reply to comments and leave the name field blank, DUH!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  

    Re: Vanity & Misandry

    identicon
    Glenn, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 11:38am

    A PERFECT REPLY!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 11:51am

    I rely on my fancy digital watch to impress the ladies.

    (Hey, it worked in the '80s.)

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  

    Geek Gear.

    identicon
    Louis, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 11:55am

    Yup, women know a good catch when they see me whip out my PDA while its ringing "Ich bin Schnappi, das kleine krokodil".

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  

    Re:

    identicon
    Glenn, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 12:23pm

    The watch with the calculator? That was neato!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  

    Re: Re: smellygrrl

    identicon
    elise, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 12:30pm

    haven't you ever heard of a pager? if your job requires you to be available at all times who says you must have 2 phones?

    my friend is a LAN/Admin who's at the beck and call of the mainframe and somehow he manages with only one cell phone.

    and the bluetooth headset is the most obnoxious tool that i have seen. it was meant for work and driving - leave it in the car or at work where it belongs. No one wants to hear you talking to yourself and we don't think you're cool cause you've got a blob hanging off your ear...it's probably giving you cancer anyway.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:02pm

    EVERYTHING GIVES YOU CANCER :-)

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:09pm

    most companies won't let a copmany phone be used for personal calls (e.g. the second personal phone)

    next, sub a pager for a phone? well, how am i supposed to call my company with a pager? use my phone minutes? bum a quarter (or what is it now 75 cents) for a payphone? call collect? i don't think so. that leaves the 2 phone option the only reliable option.

    but i think society has vastly changed over time. we have this false sense of public privacy. you shouldn't be listening me talk to my obgyn about my latest outbreak of yeast infections, although i'm screaming at the top of my lungs in a crowded mall (i seriously glanced at a girl talkinga bout hers, and gave me a dirty look because i happened to look at her. if i didn't i woulda run her over. wish i had)

    back in the day, such conversations were ment for the dr.s office and hiding in a locked room with the only tele in the house.

    however, when ppc (portable personal communication) was introduced, there was a sudden rush to show how advanced you were, by displaying it. then when ppc became affordable, more people tried to do the same thing. since more people did it, it moved to a "trend" i.e. all cool ppl are like that, and i must fit in. hell it's not just cool it's group/herd mentality.

    so, yeah, technology at first was a way of showing off, and it still is. as the article points out. however, we must look deeper into the actions of society.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  

    Re:

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:18pm

    Don't most men who feel the need to talk about how large their penis is tend to be at or below the average size? What's that saying? Oh, yeah - you must be compensating for something...

    Enjoy your smallness.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  

    Re: Re: And???

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:20pm

    Shut up! Asshole.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  54.  

    Re: "Duh?"

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:24pm

    Statistics dont mean shit...

    Look! It's a genius! I bet his penis is small too (cause all the extra went to that apparently above-average brain...

    I'm so glad there are smart people like you to point out the meaninglessness of these things. Thanks for making the world a better place.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  55.  

    Re: bla blabla

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:25pm

    Not aware enough to hear your stupidity though. That sucks.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  56.  

    Re: Re: Re: smellygrrl

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:29pm

    Dingus.

    Ever think that his company GAVE him a phone instead of a pager. Apparently your one of those who KNOWS the dude is more important than you. That sucks man.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  57.  

    Done

    identicon
    Glenn, Nov 14th, 2006 @ 1:40pm

    Ok - Now that we are into the name calling and the insults...this one appears to be over...next article.

    ...and btw anonymous, I enjoy your input. It's fun to read! I justr wonder what you do for a living that you can be on so many threads...all day.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  58.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Nov 15th, 2006 @ 5:13am

    glen, are you icelandic or retarded?

    the reason AC is all over the threads, is because many people use that name to post. it saves time and lets us not be faced with the truth of being blasted. we can say it was someone else.

    but that's what you get with a non-registered board

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  59.  
    identicon
    glenn, Nov 15th, 2006 @ 6:27am

    I am an retarded Icelander from Reykjavik.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  60.  

    Icelanders

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    Louis, Nov 15th, 2006 @ 6:53am

    I think its retarded that you think Icelandic people are retarded.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  61.  

    Re:

    identicon
    Amy, Nov 16th, 2006 @ 5:18pm

    *Not very impressive*

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  62.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 6th, 2007 @ 6:29pm

    sc

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  63.  

    Re:

    identicon
    Tammy, Feb 1st, 2007 @ 3:52pm

    Get over yourself....you probably have a needle dick!!!!

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  64.  
    identicon
    needle dick, May 17th, 2007 @ 10:13am

    ..........

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  65.  

    Re: Inquiry

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Oct 11th, 2007 @ 11:13pm

    1$per

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  66.  

    Re:

    identicon
    ROFL, Feb 25th, 2008 @ 9:17pm

    ROFL

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  67.  

    HELLO

    identicon
    chichi, Mar 7th, 2008 @ 8:41am

    Hello,
    How are you,hope you are doing well,am chichi a lovely girl,and i drop at your profile, and i love what i saw there,i beleive we can get aquainted,so if it interests you,pls reach me back here okay for further communications i stop here awaiting your respond. Regards,Ms chichi
    Please contact me direct to my box for me to give you my picture and further communications.
    [email protected]

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  68.  

    in name of ..

    identicon
    yahoo, May 24th, 2009 @ 12:50am

    in name of: China printing industry developed this years, who can tell us? China based plastic injection molding services with low costs and supeior quality Steel and aluminum scaffolding for construction is a very useful tool.

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  69.  
    identicon
    China Tent, Oct 8th, 2010 @ 11:38pm

    Amazing stuff,Thanks so much for this!This is very useful post for me. This will absolutely going to help me in my projects .

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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