Google's Ishtar Moment

from the warren-beatty-in-the-desert dept

It's really quite impressive how much life there is in the story about Google censoring results in China. Considering that plenty of other companies have done it for years, it seemed like the reaction was a bit out of the ordinary. However, Andy Kessler has put his finger on the problem. It's Google's big sellout moment. It goes against everything they represented -- something they're now trying to explain away with doubletalk and a quick rewrite of history. As Kessler explains (with plenty of amusing examples), it's not the censorship that's the problem -- but that Google set themselves up to be such an idyllic company that would never do such a thing. He also shows how it's possible to sellout in a way that keeps you cool -- which Google didn't do. In the meantime, it turns out that people are discovering the way to get around Google's filters is pretty much the same way that spammers get around spam filters and the way file sharers got around Napster's original filters: by misspelling words. This is curious, because one of Google's features is that it tries to infer what you really meant when you put in a misspelled word. You would think that they would be able to more easily block creatively spelled variations... So, now we can start the conspiracy theories (all bogus, of course) that Google purposely left this as a loophole.


Reader Comments (rss)

(Flattened / Threaded)

  1.  
    identicon
    Craig, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 10:05am

    Oh give me a break

    "Sellout moment?" What are you talking about? Google is merely complying with the national laws of a company in which it wants to do business. China has different laws than the US. Well, so do lots of countries. Just because Google is forced to do something that Americans find objectionable by the standards of their society is no reason to say they have sold out. At some point, everyone's a whore -- it's just the price that varies.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 10:25am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    "At some point, everyone's a whore -- it's just the price that varies."

    Yeah, but when you go public and pride yourself on the fact that you are not a whore, nor would you ever become a whore... that puts a whole new spin on things. Google became a 1st class hypocrite with this one. End of story.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  
    identicon
    Mousky, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 10:38am

    Slow Tech News Day Alert

    Yawn.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 10:40am

    No Subject Given

    This is actually a WIN for freedom in China.
    Yes, Google.cn filters results, but somehow Google negotiated a deal with the Chinese government so that they can tell users WHY their results were filtered.
    If google hadn't done this, Chinese users would simply never know why they got no results.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  
    identicon
    Thomas, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 10:48am

    Re: No Subject Given

    Actually the problem with their filtering is not that users get NO results. When searching on filtered terms they get only get the results Chinese Propaganda as results. Some of these pages don't (yet) mention that search results have been filtered. Promoting Chinese propaganda over other information directly contradicts the "Do No Evil" mantra they trumpted at IPO.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Jan 31st, 2006 @ 10:48am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    At some point, everyone's a whore -- it's just the price that varies.

    Er. That's the definition of a sellout, isn't it?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  
    identicon
    Mikey, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:03am

    Seriously, give it a rest

    You guys do realize how expensive it was for Chinese users to reach Google's international located on servers here in the US? Upwards of .23 cents per megabyte of bandwidth. That gets insanely expensive... I myself use over 250mb of bandwidth a day and all I do is surf the net! Moving servers to China for the Chinese lowers that cost substantially, and while it provides censored results it is still an improvement to what the Chinese were paying before.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  
    identicon
    dkw, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:08am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    I fail to see why Google is being called on the carpet here. What is intrinsically "evil" about aboeying the laws of the land in a country that you do business in. Is it intrinsically evil to decide to obey the laws rather than break them?? I do not think so. As well, there is a perfectly good way to lobby to change rules, without breaking the law. Just becuase it is not "our" law doesn't make breaking it right!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  
    identicon
    TriZz, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:14am

    No Subject Given

    Everyone acts as if they didn't see this coming...there was plenty of warning.

    Does anyone remember the big drama between Microsoft and Google when Google hired some guy to head up the Chinese search engine and Microsoft was pissed because he was a former employee?

    ...wasn't this the first hint that Google was on their way to China?

    "When in Rome..."

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  
    identicon
    Bob Smith, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:17am

    Google.com

    Can't the people in china just click the google.com link on google.cn, and get the same slow/expensive unfiltered results they were getting before?
    And they should be aware that their results are filtered, thanks to the little warning message.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:27am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    What is intrinsically "evil" about aboeying the laws of the land in a country that you do business in.

    It's not about being "evil". It's about whether or not you follow the laws or do what you think is right. Google set up a standard of what's right for ITSELF, but then backed down in this case.

    That's what people are pointing out. Not that they're following a law, but that they do not appear to have held true to their own standard, which they promoted so heavily.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  
    identicon
    Chris H, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:28am

    No Subject Given

    I just searched for Tieneman Square on Google.cn and came up with plenty of "negatove" links. Did I spell it wrong? There was no spelling suggestion given for it.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  
    identicon
    CiberJedi, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:32am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    And now, gone are the days when people felt nationalism. Governments and societies used to represent ideals to the average person. Now, are we so grounded in consumerism that we now base our loyalties on the mission statements and market speak of corporations?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:33am

    Choose the lesser of 2 evils...

    A) Google "sells out" and the Chinese are allowed to use their search engine and get at least some exposure to the western world.
    B) Google doesnt make a deal with the Chinese, resulting in less western exposure for the people of China.
    Who gives a crap if they censor results (mind you they are doing much less censoring/filtering than the Chinese govt is) - since when is it evil to comply with the law - it doesnt matter if its US law that you hate or foreign law that you also hate, it has to be done to stay in business. What Google meant by the "Do no evil" mantra is that they wont become M$ and milk you for all the money you're worth, then leave you with a crapload of bugs and security flaws AND a few hundred bucks poorer from buying crappy office software - the way that you wake up in the middle of the night to find out that you were dumb enough to bring your wallet and all your credit cards for that hooker to lift offa you.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  
    identicon
    Mousky, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:39am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    Agreed. Some people are applying this informal corporate motto to everything that Google does. When these people do not agree with Google, they bring up "do no evil". Google never stated that they will be perfect, just that they will try not be evil.

    This is a big yawner. Just some people trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I guess it's official: Google is the new punching bag for 2006. Microsoft, you are safe for now.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:55am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    Some people are applying this informal corporate motto to everything that Google does. When these people do not agree with Google, they bring up "do no evil". Google never stated that they will be perfect, just that they will try not be evil.

    Again, I think you're missing the point here. Google very much made "do no evil" a corporate mantra, but we're not even discussing the "evil" thing. If you read Kessler's article he doesn't even mention "evil." The company specifically SAID THEY WOULD NOT CENSOR. And then they did. In other words, they outright lied, after getting all sorts of goodwill for saying one thing, and doing another.

    That's what makes it a story. That's what makes it interesting.

    Google got a lot of goodwill for saying they stood for something as a company. Now they're losing it for going against what they said. That's "selling out" and that's news. If Google hadn't set themselves up that way, then it wouldn't be such an issue. But they did, so now they're dealing with the consequences.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  
    identicon
    dkw, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 11:56am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    "It's not about being "evil". It's about whether or not you follow the laws or do what you think is right. Google set up a standard of what's right for ITSELF, but then backed down in this case"

    Where did Google set up this standard of what's right? From all that I've seen it boils down to their motto "Don't be evil".

    Going out on a limb of libertarianism here, but Obeying the laws of the land is 'right' in all cases - unless you are a citizen of that country and preaching revolution. As an American company - Google does not have the right to do that.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    identicon
    AtariusRex, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 12:02pm

    Ain't it great

    The great thing is how Google provides a pile of free services, many of them at the forefront of the technology they represent. Not all of them, but a lot of them. Google maps was sure a departure from the old map sites I used to struggle with.
    Unfortunately, this means that you get to be the target of everyone who thinks that their old way was better, and they get very vocal about it. I've heard loud and harsh criticism for everything from Gmail to Google maps to the scripts in Google Labs.
    It's a choice! No-one is forcing anyone to use any of these products, if you dont like them, don't use them, your choice. This is a case where Google is complying with local laws. I know its a hard hard to comprehend but thats what makes America what it is, we have the freedom to not have our information censored like that.
    I agree with DKW, why is it evil to follow the laws. Its expanding their market and letting the Chinese use quicker, albeit incomplete search information. Is that selling out? Thats not for me to say. But how many of you complainers have had to do something you didn't particularly like to keep your job? Sell-outs!

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  19.  
    identicon
    Cober, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 12:05pm

    Maybe they didn't put a lot of effort into it?

    I agree that Google didn't plan to have leaky filters, but I would also be inclined they were just going to implement the bare minimum filtering. If there are easy work-arounds on them, Google doesn't really care, as long as they are able to maintain their presence in China.
    That said, yes, I am a bit disappointed in Google, and they may have started their fall, but they are still head and shoulders above companies such as MS and Yahoo in integrity. How long will that last? It's really up to Google.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  20.  
    identicon
    Josh Tomaino, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 12:06pm

    No Subject Given

    There is an old saying, "Trust not unto thyself, that cannot be entrusted upon others."

    If you don't understand, you weren't meant to. Move on.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  21.  
    identicon
    CookieGobbler, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 12:19pm

    Re: Oh give me a break

    So what you're saying is that being a business wanting to DO business in a foreign country AND having to abide by the laws of that country in order to do business there, you instantly become a whore? Since when did being a law-abiding citizen or business ever translate to being a sellout?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  22.  
    identicon
    G-Man, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 12:40pm

    Search 'Falun Gong' on google.cn

    Search 'Falun Gong' on google.cn
    then tell me Google is doing no evil.
    All of the front page references are negative government propaganda pieces against Falun Gong.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  23.  
    identicon
    Paul, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 12:40pm

    No Subject Given

    Google is doing more good in China by censoring their data than by not being in China at all.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  24.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 12:59pm

    Re: Search 'Falun Gong' on google.cn

    Stop talking about things you have no idea about. Falun gong is a cult, and that's that. I disagree with the chinese government on many things, but this is not one of them.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  25.  
    identicon
    KGordon, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:22pm

    Re: No Subject Given

    I just searched for Tieneman Square on Google.cn and came up with plenty of "negatove" links. Did I spell it wrong? There was no spelling suggestion given for it.

    Tiananmen

    Ironically, there was a slashdot article this morning about how filters could be bypassed by misspelling words.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  26.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:26pm

    Re: Oh give me a break

    Where did Google set up this standard of what's right? From all that I've seen it boils down to their motto "Don't be evil".

    Follow the links in the original post. It includes a page that USED to be on Google's website saying why they don't censor, and how they believe that censoring is bad.

    And now they censor.

    They set the standard for themselves. That gave them a lot of goodwill. Then, they broke it, and deleted the page.

    Going out on a limb of libertarianism here, but Obeying the laws of the land is 'right' in all cases

    You honestly believe that? That's kinda scary. But, if you want to live in that kind of world, go ahead.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  27.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:28pm

    Re: Ain't it great

    It's a choice! No-one is forcing anyone to use any of these products, if you dont like them, don't use them, your choice.

    Again, no one is denying that.

    What people are saying is they're upset that Google SET THEMSELVES UP as a great defender of openness and against censorship... and then backed down.

    The complaint is that they got a lot of goodwill out of saying one thing, but then did another.

    why is it evil to follow the laws.

    It's not necessarily "evil." However, it IS selling out. They said one thing that got them a lot of attention and good will, and then did another in the interest of making money. That's selling out.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  28.  
    identicon
    Mousky, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:30pm

    Re: Oh give me a break

    I disagree. Google did not back down, they clarified. You can scoff all you want, but implicit in any corporate policy and/or philosophy, is the notion that the corporation follow the laws and regulations of the jurisdictions they operate in. Here Google talks about obeying the law.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  29.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:35pm

    Re: Oh give me a break

    I disagree. Google did not back down, they clarified.

    To a large percentage of the public, it certainly looks like they backed down. THAT is part of the definition of a sellout. When your fans think you backed down from a principle for money.

    Since their page said:

    "Google does not censor results for any search term... We believe strongly in allowing the democracy of the web to determine the inclusion and ranking of sites in our search results."

    And now that page is gone. Uh, yeah. They backed down, and a lot of people see it that way, which is a public relations problem -- which was the point of this article. There are ways to "sell out" that don't get a lot of people upset at you.

    Google didn't do that. They chose a path that many people think looks bad. That's a problem for Google, even if you think everyone is wrong.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  30.  
    identicon
    Mousky, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:37pm

    Re: Oh give me a break

    You think it is selling out and you think it is news. I don't think it is selling out and I don't think it is news. Let's call it a difference of opinion. Besides, you are wrong ;)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  31.  
    identicon
    Chris, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:38pm

    Google Censorship Viewer

    Here's a little iframe / JavaScript page to view results side by side with the US and China versions of Google: Google Censorship Viewer.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  32.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:39pm

    No Subject Given

    I find it odd that while people blast Google for following the laws of China (even if I don't agree with them) when censoring searches, there seems to be a lack of outcry against Google when they follow the laws of the United States and censor search results.
    While the DMCA censoring done in the US might be argued to be less odious, it is only a few degrees difference, and represents a standing policy of obeying the censorship laws of the nations it does business in.
    Take your pick, Google has either sold out to the censors long ago, or is still trying to do the best that they can in hard situations. Either way simply adding China to the list does not make this news.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  33.  
    identicon
    Mousky, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:42pm

    Re: Oh give me a break

    Nice attempt at trying to connect the sentence about not censoring results and the sentence about democracy. That was smooth. Besides, I KNOW that everyone is wrong ;)

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  34.  
    identicon
    G-Man, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 1:53pm

    Re: Search 'Falun Gong' on google.cn

    And communism is not a cult?
    Let's be frank, Google is simply more comfortable consorting with communists than Republicans.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  35.  
    identicon
    Craig, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 2:11pm

    Re: Oh give me a break

    "Google does not censor results for any search term... We believe strongly in allowing the democracy of the web to determine the inclusion and ranking of sites in our search results."

    Sure, that is their belief and they practice it whenever it's legally possible. In most Western countries, that's exactly how it works. In China, the government limits their ability to achieve that goal. I do not see the issue.

    A lot of big companies have social beliefs they try to further, yet does that mean they are able to all the time when faced with conflicting laws? Certainly not.

    Starbucks is supposedly environmentally conscious, yet they are forced by the US government to clean their cooking equipment regularly, possibly wasting untold amounts of water. Should Starbucks not do business in the US because of that requirement?

    Any social belief taken to the absolute extreme is neither realistic nor possible within the scope of most business ventures. To hold Google to some "ultimate non-evil" interpretation of a vague vision statement is just absurdly unrealistic.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  36.  
    identicon
    James E Grimes, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 2:39pm

    Re: Oh give me a break

    Exactly.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  37.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Jan 31st, 2006 @ 3:04pm

    Re: Oh give me a break


    Sure, that is their belief and they practice it whenever it's legally possible. In most Western countries, that's exactly how it works. In China, the government limits their ability to achieve that goal. I do not see the issue.


    Hmm. Apparently I did a horrible job explaining the point, because everyone's focusing on the wrong thing.

    I never said that Google shouldn't do what they've done. ALL I am saying is that it LOOKS BAD -- and a lot of people seem to agree. They said one thing and did another.

    They positioned THEMSELVES as being about bigger issues -- which they're not obeying now in pursuit of money in a new market. It's a decision everyone has to make. And lots of people/companies do exactly what Google did: they sell out. It's pretty typical, and that doesn't make it WRONG. It's just what happens.

    The problem is that when a company sells out, it disillusions a lot of people who were their loyal fans/customers.

    Does this make sense? I'm not saying Google was wrong. I'm saying that they set themselves up in a certain way, and by selling out in such a way, they have upset a lot of people.

    Can we separate out the "doing evil/wrong" from the *impact* of what they've done? I'm pointing to the impact.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  38.  
    identicon
    Aaron Friel, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 3:50pm

    Re: Oh give me a break

    "The company specifically SAID THEY WOULD NOT CENSOR. And then they did. In other words, they outright lied, after getting all sorts of goodwill for saying one thing, and doing another."
    They also don't have a choice. If they don't censor, China blocks them, and the Chinese people get no choice. If they censor just barely enough to appease the Chinese government, and clearly they are doing so, then they can get away with having search results that are relatively unfiltered if users are merely a little more creative. On the other hand, Microsoft, Yahoo, and other corporations are fully sucking the Chinese teat.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  39.  
    identicon
    Mik3_D, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 4:02pm

    Man...

    You guys are going way overboard. It was either they censor some things or they are completely cut off. If the laws werent the way they were, or if the laws suddenly changed, Google would stop censoring results in a heartbeat.

    So stop being so hard on them. Google isnt the bad guy here, the shitty Chinese government is.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  40.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Jan 31st, 2006 @ 4:24pm

    Re: Man...

    So stop being so hard on them. Google isnt the bad guy here, the shitty Chinese government is.

    Ugh. How many times do I need to say this? We weren't saying that Google was "bad" here. Just that they upset a lot of people, by setting a standard that they didn't live up to.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  41.  
    identicon
    G-Man, Jan 31st, 2006 @ 5:33pm

    Re: Man...

    Elected U.S. Govt: "Can we have a sampling of data to see how easy it is for kids to access porn via Google searches?"
    Google: "Get your jackboot of oppression off me, Uncle Sam. The right of our customers to search for porn might be chilled by your requesting such data."
    Chinese Communist Dictatorship: "Can you guys censor all web pages at odds with the maintenance of our dictatorship?"
    Google: "No problem comrades."
    Question: By the way, how do Chinese peasants "misspell" Chinese characters to slyly avoid Google's political filter? I guess they will all search in misspelled English?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  42.  
    identicon
    Bob, Feb 1st, 2006 @ 12:11pm

    Community

    Well to wrap all this up, it is apparent more and more these days that Google is becoming Evil, by censoring, lying, attempting to rewrite its history, etc.

    However, public company or not Google had best watch itself. For it is the community that gave Google its power, and it is that very same community that can take it away in a snap. Google is not the only search engine on the block. Any company that gets too big for its britches is a prime target for an exercise in humility.

    Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Perhaps Google has yet to learn that simple lesson.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  43.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Feb 1st, 2006 @ 12:36pm

    I'm disappointed....


    Techdirt usually does a rather good job of being cynical of the mass media, but this time they somehow managed to trumpet what every other blog is posting.

    What this headline should have been pointing out is that Google is a business. Asking Google to ignore doing business with one of the largest countries in the world - based solely on a strictly American moral standard - is rediculous. It isn't Google's mission to change China into a democracy. They're a business. Business goals dictate expansion and revenue rather than spreading moral values. That's reality.

    If you want to change China, call up George W. and see if he's interested in trying to make them change...

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  44.  
    icon
    Mike (profile), Feb 1st, 2006 @ 1:37pm

    Re: I'm disappointed....

    Why are you disappointed? Once again, you've misread what we wrote -- so clearly we did a horrible job explaining it, but I thought I've explained it about 50 times here in these comments.

    Nowhere do we deny that Google is a business and they made a choice to move into the Chinese market.

    What we are saying is that they should have EXPECTED this response because they built up their own reputation, which they now went against.

    Is it really that hard to understand the distinction?

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  45.  
    identicon
    Sean, Feb 7th, 2006 @ 5:25am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    > At some point, everyone's a whore -- it's just the price that varies.
    The article doesn't contradict that - it instead claims that Google has (had) been falsely presenting themselves as anti-whores, which they apparently aren't.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  46.  
    identicon
    xspider2006, Mar 10th, 2006 @ 11:06am

    the truth about search engines starts here

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  47.  
    identicon
    xspider2006, Mar 10th, 2006 @ 11:09am

    Re: Oh give me a break

    http://spaces.msn.com/spiderbotsownzuall/

    no search engine is what it seems. looks like worms have corporate sponsorship

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  48.  
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Apr 14th, 2006 @ 12:20am

    google -google- google. shame-shame- shame on you. take a good hard long, long -look on how china treats human beings and dogs and cats and all animals-and even little sweet sparrows -and tell me it is ok to do business with those cruel, hardhearted people. GOD'S EYE IS ON THE SPARROW. as the saying goes , karma is gonna get you.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  49.  
    identicon
    Terry Mac, Jun 7th, 2006 @ 4:52pm

    Forsaking Your Principles

    Forsaking your principles for money is a loathsome action and it never pays off. Google could use a little less avarice and a little more Churchill.

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  50.  
    identicon
    Oleg, Oct 12th, 2006 @ 3:56pm

    medical malpractice overview

    Hei! Visit my new site medical malpractice overview

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  51.  
    identicon
    Paul, Oct 12th, 2006 @ 3:56pm

    perineal mesothelioma

    Hei! Visit my new site perineal mesothelioma

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  52.  
    identicon
    Bob, Oct 16th, 2006 @ 2:18am

    http://tls-security.blogspot.com/

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  53.  
    identicon
    Bob, Oct 16th, 2006 @ 4:25pm

    ivr

    Hei! Visit my new site ivr

     

    reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


Add Your Comment

Have a Techdirt Account? Sign in now. Want one? Register here
Get Techdirt’s Daily Email
Save me a cookie
  • Note: A CRLF will be replaced by a break tag (<br>), all other allowable HTML will remain intact
  • Allowed HTML Tags: <b> <i> <a> <em> <br> <strong> <blockquote> <hr> <tt>
Follow Techdirt
A word from our sponsors...
Essential Reading
Techdirt Reading List
Techdirt Insider Chat
A word from our sponsors...
Recent Stories
A word from our sponsors...

Close

Email This