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Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick

Fri, Dec 16th 2005 3:14am





Patent Office Rejects Another (Yes, Another) NTP Patent

from the this-is-getting-damn-silly dept

What were we just saying about about NTP's actions showing an anxiousness to settle the RIM deal before the US Patent Office definitively rejected its patents? Well, just weeks after the USPTO made it clear that one of the core patents in the case almost certainly isn't valid they're saying the same thing about another NTP patent. If you're playing the home game on all of this, this would be the second time the USPTO has rejected this patent -- suggesting that NTP's response wasn't particularly convincing. It's not the final ruling, but the USPTO (as they did with the last patent) made it clear that it's very, very likely the final ruling will reject this patent. This particular patent isn't as key to the case as the one from a few weeks ago, but it still does suggest a pattern in these NTP patents. So, with all of that happening, why is everyone, including the judge, saying they don't want to wait and see what the patent office has to say? Doesn't that seem like a key bit of extremely relevant information? Why should RIM pay what might turn out to be a billion dollars when the US Patent Office is basically admitting they screwed up in the first place? Can RIM sue the USPTO for a billion or more due to negligence?

18 Comments | Leave a Comment..


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  1.  

    No Subject Given

    identicon
    Mousky, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 4:38am

    RIM is a Canadian company. NTP is an American company. Enough said.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  2.  

    Good sell short tip.

    identicon
    Andrew Strasser, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 4:55am

    See Mike was right it was the day to sell that sucker short for sure ;)

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  3.  

    Can they settle with a condition?

    identicon
    Oliver Wendell Jones, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 5:10am

    Can RIM offer a settlement equal to what NTP is demanding with one condition?

    Should the US PTO overturn the rest of the NTP patents, NTP should have to return all funds to RIM as well as all money spent on legal fees, court costs, etc.

    If I was RIM, I'd publicly make that offer and put that before the judge. If NTP isn't willing to accept under that condition, then NTP must not really feel they have a strong case and thus it should be tossed out - or at the very least, postponed until the US PTO has had it's chance to resolve the issue once and for all.

    It seems to me it's a bit like a single mother suing a man for child support and not waiting for the paternity test results to come back first.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  4.  

    Not a bad idea...

    identicon
    The Other Mike, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 6:42am

    Actually someone suing the USPTO for negligence isn't a bad idea - if it's even possible. Their actions to date would be enough to get a company in criminal trouble, why shouldn't a government agency be held at least somewhat accountable?

    A suit against them may not go far but it could create a critical mass inside the agency. Major changes have been triggered by less. And this office needs a serious wake up call.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  5.  

    A conundrum wrapped in an enigma...

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 7:00am

    Well, if NTP doesnt hold the patent, who does? I assume RIM holds (or licenses) the Canadian patent, but if the USPTO keeps throwing out NTP's filings, somebody out there must have a better claim to the US rights.

    It seems like RIM is going to have to pay some company a sizeable amount of $$$ to license the technology. Maybe they'd rather just deal with the devil they know at this point.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  6.  

    the real problem is...

    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 7:17am

    blackberries suck and people that use them are dickheads

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  7.  

    Re: Can they settle with a condition?

    identicon
    Mousky, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 7:27am

    What do you think the sticking point is between RIM and NTP? RIM definitely wants that condition in. NTP definitely does not want that condition in.

    There is nothing left for the judge to do. It is now a matter between NTP and RIM. NTP can ask the judge to remove the stay and order the shutdown of the Blackberry (save and except for government users). If that happens both NTP and RIM lose.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  8.  

    Re: A conundrum wrapped in an enigma...

    identicon
    Mousky, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 7:30am

    The issue is not RIM paying some company a sizeable amount of money. RIM have set aside $450 million and an addition $550 million or so will have minimal impact on the bottom line. The issue is recovering that money should the patents be totally rejected.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  9.  

    Re: A conundrum wrapped in an enigma...

    identicon
    wot thee eff?, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 7:56am

    I thought the main underlying issue is that noone should hold the patent for something as obvious as sending email on a portable device. NTP didn't make any technology or even conduct any worthwhile research on this. RIM isn't NTP's IP. Remember all the old books about flying cars and jetpacks? Imagine one of those authors had been allowed to patent the idea or even that one of us who'd read such a book patented it years later. That's pretty much what this is...

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  10.  

    Organized Crime?

    identicon
    Anonymous, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 8:14am

    Sounds like an organized crime shakedown to me. Where's the FBI in all this?

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  11.  

    Re: the real problem is...

    identicon
    Barry Blackberry, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 8:15am

    Blackberries rule man and you just gotta get on the train or stay back in the dark ages - man. Chicks dig Blackberries.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  12.  

    Re: Can they settle with a condition?

    icon
    Mike (profile), Dec 16th, 2005 @ 9:04am

    Can RIM offer a settlement equal to what NTP is demanding with one condition?

    Should the US PTO overturn the rest of the NTP patents, NTP should have to return all funds to RIM as well as all money spent on legal fees, court costs, etc

    The rumor going around was that was actually the settlement that was offered earlier this year... which NTP rejected. And the "return all funds" part was the sticking point.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  13.  

    Re: A conundrum wrapped in an enigma...

    icon
    Mike (profile), Dec 16th, 2005 @ 9:06am

    Well, if NTP doesnt hold the patent, who does? I assume RIM holds (or licenses) the Canadian patent, but if the USPTO keeps throwing out NTP's filings, somebody out there must have a better claim to the US rights

    No, the point isn't that "someone" holds the patent, but that the entire patent isn't valid. Not everything gets to be patented. It's only stuff considered "non-obvious", and plenty of people would say the idea of making email mobile doesn't qualify as "non-obvious."

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  14.  

    ARTICAL

    identicon
    JEFF BROWN, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 11:55am

    WTF (WHAT THE FUCK) IS NPT YOU ASSUME EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THIS IS COMMON

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  15.  

    Re: ARTICAL

    identicon
    Carlo, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 12:11pm

    NTP is the company suing RIM for violating its patents. Thank you, though, for clarifying what "WTF" means. That was new to us.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  16.  

    Re: the real problem is...

    identicon
    Pepito Melorcas, Dec 16th, 2005 @ 12:31pm

    Fuck You Puto Baboso

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  17.  

    Re: A conundrum wrapped in an enigma...

    identicon
    good guys always come in last, Mar 3rd, 2006 @ 6:45pm

    well i think what it really is is that NTP is an american company and RIM is canadian. NTP must have been so happy after RIM did all the work.Now they can get millions of dollars for doing what they do best... sitting on their ass and stealing money from hard working companies especially if that company isn't american. Hows this for an idea..a light bulb that can change colours with your mood... OK i patented it. Now let me basically forget about it for 20 years and then after someone else thought of the same idea and spent their entire life actually working on it and going through all the struggles... finally when it becomes a multimillion dollar corporation let me take millions of his dollars. Ye thats fair. I would do it too but im not a heartless, selfish, a**hole. Sorry if i seem bitter towards Americans... i know obviously not all of you are bad... but its pple and companies like NTP that make your country one of the most loathed in the world. And i agree with them. I don't think they woulda been so greedy had RIM been an American country. Oh well its like they say good guys always come in last.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]

  18.  
    identicon
    Jack, Apr 24th, 2006 @ 3:32pm

    Blackberry - The most overrated doorstop since the ipod.

    [ reply to this | link to this | view in thread ]


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