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1.  

   What?

   

   Oliver Wendell JOnes, Sep 10th, 2004 @ 6:49pm

   
   

   and only means that other services are likely to spring up to fill the gap...
   
   Are you going to trust your bank account info to an online transaction service that specializes in porn and illegal prescription drugs?
   
   I trust PayPal. I've got *lots* of friends who use PayPal. I read stories all the time of people who claim they got screwed by PayPal, but neither I nor any of my friends actually know anyone who ever got screwed by PayPal. Could be because we mostly deal with reputable websites and ebay sellers with high feedback numbers, but I'll trust PayPal long before I trust a company that specializes in things that are illegal or almost illegal.

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2.  

   No Subject Given

   

   bbay, Sep 10th, 2004 @ 7:42pm

   
   

   Fine people $500? I think you mean steal $500 from people.
   
   This is prima facie evidence that they're crooks.
   
   When is the appropriate body of law going to be applied to what is, by any reasonable definintion, a financial institution?

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3.  

   Potential for abuse

   

   Loraan, Sep 11th, 2004 @ 12:55am

   
   

   This has enormous potential for intentional or negligent abuse. For example, if I make a PayPal purchase from a merchant that sells some items that could be considered pornographic, like jlist.com (and I don't know if jlist takes PayPal, but regardless), will I be fined? Will I be expected to produce proof that my particular purchase was not pornographic in nature? What percentage of a web site's goods must be pornographic before the web site becomes prohibited? Will PayPal print a list of websites that are prohibited, or will they simply judge each case individually? By god, if somebody is going to take $500 right out of my checking account, they better damn well cover their ass when they do it.

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4.  

   lol PayPal is becoming Visa Mastercard

   

   Seth Brundle, Sep 11th, 2004 @ 8:41am

   
   

   Hilarious. Its the same approach to vice as Visa Mastercard - they dont want it to stop, they just want a larger piece of the action.

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5.  

   Only legal bodies can issue fines

   

   FineboyTim, Sep 11th, 2004 @ 10:50am

   
   

   IANAL, but I am pretty sure that only legal bodies such as governments (municpal, local, state, etc) can actually issue a fine.
   
   They may isse a "penalty fee", but if you don't have the cash in the account, how they heck to they expect to collect it?
   
   I don't believe they have a legal right to do this. If you don't pay the "fine" will they double it and triple it? Will you be pulled over by big brother and have your computer impounded due to unbaid "fines"?
   
   Rediculous!

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6.  

   Re: Only legal bodies can issue fines

   

   Jeremiah, Sep 11th, 2004 @ 1:30pm

   
   

   They expect to collect it because in most cases, users have associated their main bank account with thier PayPal account.
   
   I'm very worried about a financial institution (non-regulated, mind you) that's setting itself up as a cultural watchdog with the strong influence of monetary resources at its disposal.
   
   From thier perspective, I can understand the desire to *not* be a middle-man in transactions of dubious nature (a *lot* of online pharmacies are operating illegally, and credit card fraud among pr0n companies is INSANE). To adopt some kind of blanket policy (aren't SOME pharmacies legal? Can I use PayPal with Walgreens??) seems quite short sighted, but as stated before, will probably open up opportunities for other businesses.
   
   Incidentally, I've witnessed PayPal theft secondhand, when a friend of mine had $1,300 seized by PayPal after a woman he'd done an eBay transaction with had her account compromised. There were almost a dozen people she'd done business with that also had their accounts seized (by PayPal, not the hax0rs), totalling a little over $10,000. The woman had never done anything wrong (sans letting her password get loose), but the net effect was startling. To this day, no one has recovered their money.

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7.  

   By whos authority?

   

   Grifon, Sep 11th, 2004 @ 7:01pm

   
   

   I don't get it, by who's authority are the leveling fines? If they decided to claim I owed them x$ I would tell them to go screw I don't owe them anything for facilitating a transaction between private citizens... It's remincent of the rental car companies trying to issue you a speeding ticket based on black box info and some fine print in their rental agreement. Needless to say that boat did not float in court.

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8.  

   Re: By whos authority?

   

   bbay, Sep 12th, 2004 @ 12:01am

   
   

   I imagine that they will claim that the authority is granted to them by their terms of service. I think it's important to note that legitimate financial institutions are not allowed to have 'terms of service' that violate certain basic standards, for very good reason.
   
   Usary laws are an easy example of this.

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9.  

   Re: By whos authority?

   

   bbay, Sep 12th, 2004 @ 12:10am

   
   

   Doh! I mispelled usury.
   
   Also, it occures to me to mention that penalties specified in a contract that exceed any damages caused are routinely thrown out by the US courts.
   
   You can't just specify some arbitrary penalty in a contract. It has to be equivalent to the damage caused by the breach of contract.
   
   So you can't just use a contract as an excuse to do something ridiculously unjust.

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10.  

    The door is open

    

    Anonymous Coward, Sep 13th, 2004 @ 11:56am

    
    

    I think this does open the door for truly anonymous e-cash. The internet (and every medium before it) was built on porn, after all. People are going to use whatever system allows them to buy porn, and if that system also allows regular purchases it will force Paypal right out of the market. Except for Ebay, of course.

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11.  

    Re: The door is open

    

    Brentis, Sep 13th, 2004 @ 1:42pm

    
    

    Somehow somebody did figure out how to transfer funds from my paypal account, possibly spyware or otherwise. It was for $1700. I called paypal and they were either clueless or arrogant. When an attractive alternative surfaces I will change.
    
    What I've done to protect myself is open up another secondary account with the min. balance and associate my paypal to that. They can try to fine me all day long if I decide to buy a Playboy subscription online... Fuck 'em.
    
    I've also suggested they have another line of defense which sends you an email with a confirmation ID _prior_ to transfering the funds. You would copy this ID and paste it int the window to confirm the transaction. Users a bit more concerned with security could use this as another line of defense.

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12.  

    Re: By whos authority?

    

    Robert, Sep 27th, 2004 @ 8:44am

    
    

    When you sign up for an account at PayPal they get your bank account and credit card info. They will simply take the $500 from your bank account or charge your credit card if you don't have the funds available. Pay has long self-imposed fines, and has never hesitated to take funds without your permission. This is just one of the reasons that they had a multi-million dollar settlement against recently. Check out paypalsucks.com

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13.  

    Re: What?

    

    Pussy, Sep 28th, 2004 @ 5:08pm

    
    

    That sounds like the RIAAs argument about P2P
    
    “It might be used for something illegal”
    
    Frankly, what business is it of PayPal’s what I spend my money on?
    
    Can I still pay for the porno I buy on Ebay with my PayPal account?
    

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14.  

    Re: What?

    

    mike, Jul 9th, 2009 @ 2:22am

    
    

    porn is not sothink ilegal
    paypal is so hipocrit,

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